ATOM 2.0 IS HUGE FOR COSMOS!

Transcript

we've really built like a native integrated experience around interop that no other ecosystem has even though they have in Iraq [Music] here we are I'm here at Cosmo verse 2022 in Meridian and I'm very pleased to be sitting with Jackie Manion yeah in this uh in this great media room that they got set up

for us and we're gonna be talking about some I think this is the probably like the freshest of alpha I just got off the stage just got off the stage just got off the stage barely had any time to prepare I think this is like the least preparation I've ever had for any conversation yeah I think we'll be talking about this for a while so you know this is the first draft of History we can do you know I think I think this could be a nice kind of overview of what's in atom 2.0 but I think because we are going to be talking about atom 2.0 you start your talk and I think you know Ethan gave a talk just before um talking about the the vision for Cosmos and how it's been evolving and you know like the vision in the 2016 white paper has been slowly

materializing over the last six seven years what's the vision in your view like where do we where are we heading you know from from here I think that so I would say that there's two things on one hand I think there is an emerging Vision that among many people about sort of what are the next phase of Cosmos sort of network ecosystem all the stuff how do we live in this world where like Roll-Ups are happening and you know like the the the you know Sovereign build your own blockchain narrative is now like the mainstream narrative and the industry and like how does cosmos make sure that we're still relevant then but I think a lot of why we decided to put atom 2.0 center stage at this event was that we think that it will be very

difficult for the tech to remain relevant if the asset is not yeah right like the asset is the is the thing that carries the meme it is the thing that also funds much of the public goods in the ecosystem like if we do not make Adam great again uh or maybe great for the first time it'll be very difficult to see all of this work not be sort of sort of become commoditized by like the fact that the entire industry has basically decided our our thesis from 2016 was the right thesis yeah one of the things that I think really came through in the first couple talks this morning this is something that I think a lot of people in the customer space you know sort of know and believe and and

um and consider to be true but a lot of emphasis was on building new systems and not like on people right and it's like you know we sit here and look at the price and look at what's the value of Adam and I think a lot of the conversation in the last couple of months has been around what makes Adam valuable but at the end of the day you know the vision and what we're trying to do here is actually build new types of Institutions replacing Legacy systems and and at the core of that are people yes how do we kind of revitalize this idea of narrative I would also say the fact that we got to today was a huge revitalization right um there was

there was definitely a sense I think among many people about a lot of the people who have worked you know used to work at tender mint worked on the core like the launch of Cosmos you know a lot of us kind of at the end of 20 sort of in the 20 late 2020 early 2021 time frame kind of all went off on our own adventures in The Interchange right we built our own chains we built our own thing and maybe like we weren't as connected back into this but with the technical Advisory board at the sort of new Cosmos subvision white paper what we are trying to do we have also this thing that called the cosmos Builders Foundation which has not been as we

didn't make as much as a star of the show because like we have too many stars with the show this time um but it's going to be a big I think going to be a big part of the future of Cosmos as well that we have been really kidding to get pulling together a revitalization about the core group and then adding to that among a whole bunch of new people like so many new people have come in like people who are you know not the cosmos white paper you'll see on the author list there are people whose names are not known in Cosmos right who've been who've been who've been like putting months and months of work into this new vision for Adam and that has always been like you know what is special is like the fact that you could let someone else new people could

come into the ecosystem but what we want to do is like grow that ability to bring new people in in a way that has really felt very different difficult up until now yeah I feel that too as well like whenever you know one example is like whenever I'm you know pitching like what I do right I'm pitching interop Ventures or whatever and people tell me oh you're running a cosmos fund and and I sort of have to correct them and say no I'm running an interchange fund and the vision for interchange was set a long time ago but there very much is sort of a pre-ibc era I think and like a post IBC era and the post IBC era is I think an era where all like all like the pre-ibc era is a lot of people who worked at tenement and people who worked

on the on the Hub and who did like a lot of this early work and a lot of that um and there were these early teams that discovered tender right right yeah some of them built on the cosmos SDK and some of them went off into their own worlds right yeah like we had polygon binance BNB smart chain like all of these things but there was that there were there were multiple nucleating events right but the post IBC thing is this kind of thing where it is pulling all the pieces back together one of the things though that I think has become like really that really strikes me about how different the cosmos ecosystem is from all the other ecosystems is if you look at bridging right now my sense of the entire bridging

ecosystem is that it is largely stable coins outside of the IBC ecosystem yeah like right now like basically the bridging ecosystem is bringing stable coins from places that don't have them to places that need them and then there's the cosmos ecosystem where people said tokens to every blockchain in the IBC Network Willy Dilly without a second thought right and you know it's because IBC feels very native the security model is very simple the software is very well constructed you know the kinds of oh like where are my coins kind of experience you know are the between map of zones and Cosmo station uh and mint scan you know their

product mint scan like we've really built like a native integrated experience around interrupt that no other ecosystem has even though they have in Iraq yeah uh yeah yeah totally and I think that this new sort of post IBC Cosmos world has all of these new people that had that are just not not very much attached to like the previous iteration of the ecosystem in ways that like hey people are building IBC connections to near and polka dot and like all these other ecosystems for whom like Cosmos Hub doesn't really have any part of the problem again with this

whole like why we need a new vision for the cosmos Hub is that there are a lot of people so there's a legacy of people who've been keeping this whole thing going who having a basically an emotional attachment yeah to the cause to the cosmo 7 we're like this Adam thing like it it embodies so much of our hopes and dreams for so many years that we're not letting willing to let it die right yeah but we still have to like we have to figure we have to find a way to economically engage all of the new people who are coming to the IBC ecosystem in the atom economy so that they actually are like not just like oh like I love this Cosmos thing what is this what has it ever done for me but if what Adam can do is it can you know buy my

tokens hold LP positions on exchanges provide liquidity provide a long-term aligned Capital Partner uh if it can you know help me deal with my Mev challenges if it can uh uh provide liquid atoms that flow out and collateralize my economy suddenly now people are like oh like I know what Adam could do for me yeah well okay let's let's let's uh leave that sort of yeah philosophy stuff behind us and let's let's dive into atom 2.0 here so there's three main components I think that are critical to to this new vision for Adam and like you said in your talk a lot of this stuff has already been kind of out in the open this is just kind of put you

know again it like fits really well with like Ethan's theme of integration yeah right all right let's look at the three parts so there's a liquid staking there's this allocation module interchange allocation which I guess is meant to help fund ecosystem growth and then there's the scheduler which redirects cross-chain Mev so let's let's maybe just start with liquid staking here because I think it's the thing that most people in ecosystem are familiar with because it's existed before in ethereum and also lots of talk has been in uh you know we've been talking about it we've been talking about a lot since 2019. silver and everything so yeah let's start with the liquid staking okay so all right where does so okay so in 2019 in back

you know in 2016 when we were figuring this out the early tendermint proof of stake community realized that there was a problem with proof of stake problem with proof of stake is if I have a flat inflation rate or like a flat coin issuance rate or if I have a Bitcoin style you know descending coin uh you know deflationary descending emission rate I'm gonna run problem and the problem is they're going to be other things that people can do they'll be able to win their coins they're going to be able to you know you know put their coins in other applications they'll collateralize stable coins with it they'll be incentives all those stable coins they'll be like we kind of imagined all of this stuff that we see today in 2016 and we're like yeah you can't make a

hard cap work right we're like [ __ ] you can't make a hard cap work so we came up with this idea of adaptive issuance where the issuance rate would adapt to the staking and then we started talking a lot about liquid staking in 2019 but we still had to ship IBC we you know there are a lot of improvements to the staking module that we shipped in Cosmos that like are possible you know there's what Babylon chain is doing with potentially reducing non-bonding time there's we could have gone to like a Cubase system so like depending if not very many people are unbonding now we could have given people shorter run bonding times there are like lots of improvements um that are made but like you know and I'm not I think we should like you know

this Renewed Energy into the staking module allows us to sort of do all of those things but one of the things that I you know I think has been most important is to unlock everything else we have to solve this puzzle we have to solve this puzzle of atoms are constraining the development of defying the ecosystem it's constraining the development of stable coins constraining the development of blending protocols starving the ecosystem of applications and use cases that are important we should be trying to solve that and as a as you know Ethan is the monetary theorist I'm not the monetary theorist so I don't really have a strong opinions

about whether or not atoms can be sound buddy but what I would say is that I think Adams should be like a very useful asset to to the ecosystem that should be a very strong acid and having this world of you know 10 9 10 you added issue it's where we're issuing you know 20 or 30 million atoms a year is really adverse to those goals but we had to figure out a way to do it securely and then all of these liquid stinging protocol like you know I started working with the occlusion team on this you know small change to the like it was like hey what is the smallest change that we can make the other thing though that like the liquid staking thing kind of got right that I think is a is gonna is really

influential on the atoms uh uh is we are not picking a winner we're not saying the liquid staking should be stride it should be Quicksilver it should be anything we've made some mistakes in 2021 which was we tried to pick winners we were like the gravity decks will be the Decks that osmosis I came in at like you know smashed our faces of the ground and like dragged us behind a car right like utterly crush the gravity decks we said the gravity bridge should be the bridge and Axor came to the party it was like we got better we got some pretty good technology uh you know why should that be the bridge and so one of the things that I think we've really learned over

the course of 2021 was we should build into the cosmos Hub Primitives that enable a multi-vendor ecosystem of new partners to the cosmos Hub to then come out and build and what the market decide what the what what is the right what is the optimal stake atom is there one optimal stake atom are there five you know we see a very we're starting to see a very competitive market in ethereum liquid staking I would love to see an even more competitive market because we've made it easier to compete so you're thinking about them in the Customs Hub more as a platform than a place where yeah we are not what the cosmos Hub cannot be is it cannot be so our thesis is application

specific blockchains and the cosmos type could not be an application specific blockchain okay that is like one of the one of the things that I has been like one of the what are the knots that was like so hard to unpack was like our thesis is application specific portrait therefore we need to build applications in the hub for it to be there and then we were like when we were tried it and we failed miserably right completely got like completely crushed in this we're like this is not wrong this is could not be the right answer how does it was taken generally you know with all these different um liquid staking solutions that are coming either on the Hub through interesting security or as as their own Sovereign chains how do these entering the ecosystem and providing liquid

Stakes assets fixed issuance or address so what they do is they like really drive the stake rate up and they also allow users of those liquid sticking protocols to stack their yield so it's no longer like hey I am staking my atom for the airdrops or the yield it's I'm in this liquid staking protocol I'm getting if I'm holding liquid stick out I'm getting exposure now we're you know airdrops hopefully get replaced more by like the scheduler and the allocation module as like the way to partner with the Hub and then you have so now you're holding your liquid state assets you're like maybe I'm earning you know maybe there's you know one percent or whatever

coming in for that and there's like some scheme for Distributing that in my particular liquid sticky protocol but like now I'm encouraged to take my liquid stick asset take it to Mars protocol take it to IST take it to uh and like go out and ERD on top of that so like now instead of this asset that is like holding back the explosion of the economy now suddenly with you know n billion dollars whatever it's worth at the time somebody flows out and suddenly seeds everything else right and so like we truly have like a big bang from the liquid staking protocols so IT addresses issuance by increasing the staking rate and then therefore reducing the issuance rate yeah so like right now our floor issuance is seven percent right and the

white paper that has come out the proposed floor issuance now would actually fall all the way to 300 000 atoms a month okay which would probably end up being like approximately one percent okay and and then there's there's there's options for a week which we can go into which aren't really sketched out into the white in the white paper but like it's going to be a great thing for the community to discuss which is either we could even go further we could go to zero issue it or you know under sub conditions or we could go to this world of um where there's a burn from the scheduler and allocation Revenue that offsets that okay well let's let's get into the allocation because I think the allocation module is the one that I

understand the least probably because I I don't have a great understanding of the Olympus Dao um yeah treasury thing so yeah yeah he's playing from the top down because like yeah yeah let's let's talk about it so one of the things that what Olympus does is so Olympus came up with this very clever mechanism um so all those Olympics was a stable coin Olympus yeah was a stable coin yeah the problem with it is is not a stable coin right um like why is Olympus you know problematic is that like it's not actually an effective way of constructing a stable coin for a variety of different reasons um there's a great like uh uh paper from like tarun and Guillermo and stuff like

this about the the analyzing the Olympus mechanism it does a bad job of being a stable coin but what they came up with was hey so like one of the problems like why does no one just do like hey like I'm gonna pass a governance proposal and buy some osma like why don't we just like diversify our treasury in osmo well what price should we do that osmo at um you mean the Hub right yeah like let's let's bring osmo into the Hub treasure yeah so like to align incentives or like let's hold a bunch of LP pairs of like osmo Adam in the hub and why don't we just do this with governance proposals um you know and that's what's existed and then but what you have is like what was most effectively demonstrated by the Constitution Dao debacle was hey if

you're a decentralized anything everyone can see your price preferences right and everyone will be like well we'll just like charge you the most you're willing to pay or or outbid you right yeah you know it's constantly this adverse selection on the on the on pricing and what Olympus came up with is this idea of hey what we're going to do is we're going to Target essentially buying assets at a certain rate but we're not going to Target price and so if we're able to deploy at the Target rate we're willing will decrease the price that we're willing to pay and if we're willing to if we're willing to Target if we're if we're uh uh not able to hit our Target rate of capital

deployment we'll increase the price that we'll pay this is really like it's a very clever mechanism it allows you to not have to deal with the decks and basically the people are now arbiting this mechanism are actually optimizing the discount rather than sort of trying to like exploit the hub for as much money as it can get out okay that's really inspirational because now you can build we can build these like sort of things that so the allocation module basically says there should be things like this we're not going to build a thing like this into the cosmos Hub but what we're saying is in a world where there are things like this we can allocate assets and then what we will also have is this rebalancer concept which is again uses some similar mechanism

designed to this but when those assets when those things return non-atom assets to the hub Treasury we actually have the ability to do treasury management okay right instead of just having uh and so these are the two ideas and is this this treasury management happens through governance yeah but again it's setting these like large-scale parameters that like guide these like economic little machines that like are not like oh let's like go dump a bunch of osmo on no let's accept let's like tune the parameters so it's like oh you can like you know put some atoms in and get osmo out at like a certain rate and why are you trying to like we wanna we thought osmo went up a lot and now we want to unwind our position and you're when you're talking about the the

treasury of the Hub you're talking about the treasury that then gets deployed as like Community Grant proposals and things of that nature collectively owned assets of the Hub okay and so the allocation module will help better um not only so only help the Hub better bring assets into his treasury but also better deploy assets into the ecosystem yeah okay because currently the Hub I mean currently the Hub only holds atoms yeah exactly it doesn't hold anything else it doesn't diversify it doesn't and like it's very cumbersome to say hey I would like I am a new chain launching in the ecosystem I like I mean we did the prop 72 thing with Neutron right but

like super cumbersome and like okay like you know it's just like yet another multi-sig though like we have to manage and stuff like that right yeah it's like it's very high trust we're not able to actually deploy that much Capital through it right oh I see so the allocation module would also do like in the case of prop 70 uh props 70 top 72 um I guess for for many you know proposals where people are asking for funds someone sets up a multi-sig those funds go into that multi-sig and there's a sort of like an assumption that those people will do the right thing with the funds the allocation module can actually set maybe um allocation yeah it can set a stream of atoms towards some project some sort of goal okay okay with some expected return yeah

so like the idea is that's not like you know if you were if you were flowing assets towards like a neutron there would be a flow of neutrons back into the community pool right yeah like you would accumulate this asset and then the treasury management function can actually figure out what to do with it does it only have to be a you know like a financial return or like one of the things I was thinking about because you know from nebular Summit we did we did the proposal where we asked the utmost for for tokens and then when we got the tokens we did we did the conference and then later people were like hey you should you should you should you should write to the community and tell them what they got for their marketing spend yeah right and so there's I think there's this like idea

of deliverables that you know it's under exploited um you know and so are there you know in the case of neutron in your example Cosmos Hub flows uh streams atoms into the into Neutron neutrons strange back tokens to the hub for things that are less financialized you know for instance funding a conference or funding open source software what kinds of guarantees can the Hub get that these things are actually getting done let's see your funding yeah someone who's building open source software what kind of deliverables can those people provide to the hub the white paper which is this is the part of the white paper that I spent the least mental energy on but other people spend a lot of mental energy on was this new assembly system this new governance system and these

things are sort of overlapped and and coordinated right on one hand you have like the allocation module which is conceived of as you know there is an intention of getting Financial return right of like obtaining assets because I do think that the you know that the like one of the core things that you need to have to have a successful entertainment a successful interchange that works together is this mechanism of hey there are like coordinated assets yeah that like that Adam is is like sort of can get exposure to all of these other assets rather than like Oh I'm a cosmos investor I have to constantly like chasing every single chain of them like there is more of a coordinated mechanism

there's more of a shared exposure to the ecosystem so as an investor I mean you know this might be also going off into a tangent here but as an investor you one could feel comfortable investing in Adam and knowing that Adam is or the Hub is making Investments or at least funding things that yeah it's giving you some derivative exposure or some you know exposure to the other and like you know if when the when these assets when these Investments become profitable there's some opportunity to like you know they will be you know you do atom BuyBacks and burns and stuff like that like sort of and and so these assets that are in the treasury can can the Hub also stake them absolutely wow energy and accounts are pretty magical man oh okay that's cool I think I think braps talked to me

about this on on the episode with him recently and I was like wait what yeah a chain could stake tokens yeah so like um in the next hub upgrade yeah we will be able to do govern interchange accounts governance actions because right now you know in the case of the in the case of the delegations that the ICF announced these are manual operations effectively right I mean these are people deciding where those tokens go in the future we could have these things basically be Unchained be governed by Yeah by governance so again and this is like you know again I think the Hub can like really can more than any other organization I mean Swiss Foundation Can Has Its has the ability to absolutely make credible commitments yeah because of its

governance structure but I think the Hub can also make credible commitments and I think you saw this really nicely with Olympus like Olympus did this they really hey we will hold your asset like if we're buying an asset we we will incredibly commit to holding it for a longer period of time very cool um and so yeah I I would like there to be a world that the allocation module now becomes a mechanism that is like the atom Community is like the most credible Capital Partner in the entire ecosystem that we're more credible than any Venture fund we're more credible than the ICF like it's the Adam GAO essentially is the most credible Capital Partner so you're like hey you know oh

Adam Dow you want to hold IST Adam LP tokens like we not only know that but we know that you're like you're willing to like sort of ride or die with those like you'll hold them for 10 years yeah yeah okay yeah that's I I think we could we could really go further deeper here but let's talk I gotta like you know this is you know there are so many people who are here who's who are who whose names are on the white paper and people whose names are not on the white paper who've contributed to these ideas uh and so you gotta talk to all of them because this is zucky is the uh is you know the sacrifice show lamb to the Adam Gods but you know there's a lot there's a lot of people with a lot of ideas here and a

lot of people I'm hoping we will all build this together yeah and I think I'll get some of those people on the podcast and maybe dive in deeper into some of these little things you can do an entire podcast Series going author by author yeah uh all right let's let's touch on the final piece the scheduler yeah this is one of the most interesting pieces yeah what what's the scheduler and yeah I mean I think Mev is still quite esoteric topic to a lot of people um and yeah you know absolutely I kind of uh you know and I I do but you know the basic idea of if you have a market on chain information about that Mark like the the

flow of information through markets creates value yeah and being able and like one of the things that is kind of um sort of weird and interesting about the world is that like like essentially in the world information is continuously being generated like people's preferences about so like you know I'm like up on stage giving my talk about atom 2.0 but osmosis only makes a block every five seconds right so I'm talking about things people's preferences and their expected future value of Adam is dynamically changing sort of in real time yeah but blockchain markets are only updating every time you make a book

right and so there's this continuous transfer of information and the most valuable transfer of information is functionally between the centralized exchange ecosystems and the decentralized exchange ecosystems and I think Adam is going to continue to be in a privileged place for those flows see this was the thing about the about your talk that I this is the argument I think it stands up the least because you know people have been talking about Adam being in this privileged place of being the on and off ramp for uh you know for potentialized exchanges effectively right now I think Adam is the only asset in in the United States that is listed uh Juno is supposed to be listed I don't think it's listed yet but that doesn't have to remain the case

forever yeah but so I can't put all my cards on the table yet I've got some other we've got some other stuff okay but yeah let's assume that like Adam remains uh you know the dominant IBC yeah so I think there's a couple of questions here right one is so you have two things that I think you know I decided to take that tack in the talk but so two things one is Adam and the atom secure things being the dominant on-ramp offering is one thing second thing is we all want to live in a future where decentralized exchanges were that's where most price Discovery happens they sat around

in both of those worlds having a slice of the Box base fee a valuable slice of the box-based Futures Market is a really powerful thing and is perhaps much is like the most aligned sort of fee mechanism that I think you can conceive of okay so how does this work uh so explain what a blockchain block space Futures Market is yeah yeah so now now we gotta go to really into the details okay so here's how this is about how we imagine this now um the way we imagine this thing is right now every block proposer on a cosmic strain has unilateral authority over what they put in their book right and so

we have started you know we see some Mev extraction uh on osmosis now um skip yeah whatever else people are doing yeah okay and then we have counter measures like uh threshold encryption and stuff like that but anyway it doesn't change the fact that we have unilateral Authority well we have these two new tendermint apis that are in Alpha right now in the next tender mint release um and it lets you apply additional conditions to the book so what we could do is actually say hey okay so you have like you you have the auction chain you have this auction chain the auction chain is saying hey on

this option chain we like auction off box based on all on let's say all the interchange I need changes this would be like a separate chain that just does auction this does block space auctions okay but it's it has IBC connections to a lot of different to The Interchange security chains potentially beyond that anything that's opt-in and there's a new IBC protocol the blockspace Futures IBC protocol this box page Futures IBC protocol says okay on the if the on the Block space features chain you win the auction for box 6000.

it will say you send an IBC packet of that auction winning to the uh chain where like that box will happen and you say hey on that block on that chain the validator who the validator proposes that block yeah that block is only valid if the top of the block let's say the first 20 of gas consumed in the block is assigned by the winner of the auction okay so this is called a physically delivered I block space future okay and what why would someone want to buy this block space for the future like why would someone want to buy future Blocks place so the reason why someone would is now

so Skip and Mecca Tech what they don't have in the current system is enforceable execution rights okay so if you're a builder right now you don't actually have an enforceable right you just have this like reputation Market where it's like oh I you know I told you that I would propose this and like you were gonna willing to pay me um and maybe you didn't and maybe you stole the med yourself and maybe I'll kick you out of the marketplace but it's like not it's not the it's not like a really protocol enforced right if you go to this world of a protocol enforced block space just maybe maybe just it Bears just because like you said you know Mev is

big is a Tarot so it Bears just reminding like how how this Builder validated relationship work so in in the case of Mech attacks yes mechatech builds the block Mega Tech looks at all the all the things happening on chain builds a block in a way that will extract the most value sells that information to the validator the validator because Mega Tech is not running validators that's not their business a validator is not doing Mev that's not their business or not doing Mev sort of yeah they're not doing this they're not discretionary right the validator the discretion is living at the Builder exactly so the Builder sells that information to the validator the validator agrees to execute to to basically structure that block with those transactions in that order and then give a portion of that back to to

Mac attack and then the validator usually in the block itself right it'll architect will generate yeah but they don't have to they could like also be running some sort of software that like optimizes that block but removes that Mega Tech transaction or whoever the Builder is what you're saying is that this uh scheduler model like that effectively says it is enforced So when you buy that block space whatever whoever bought that block space they decide what goes in there the validator can't do anything about it yeah or they'll get slashed or something some incentive mechanism will will get triggered like the block will either have a sign Chunk from the winner or it'll be empty

and if like we could say also if you produce like n empty box well slash you okay yeah so I think where we were going was what's the point of like why would someone want to buy future block space so the biggest thing about it is that now you get this like as a builder you get this enforceable right yeah this enforceable rate is even more powerful if you have it across multiple chains okay so if you're like hey there is a transaction that we need to execute where it's like I want to be able to make sure that you know I get atoms I get an outgoing IBC Transit I like exit my items from a centralized exchange get an IBC transaction and get them

outgoing to a Gorge so I can like you know get some IST for whatever reason and I can do all of that with the highest probable priority now if someone has a physical like sort of a guaranteed protocol right and I know that this Builder has a I can go to that Builder and they can give me really strong execution guarantees that I not just like on one chain they'll be able to do something but like that entire sequence of actions could potentially be executed like with a high degree of of certainty about delivery so who's gonna be buying this block space mostly Builders mostly Builders mostly Builders so you you expect that there will be a market of Builders there will be more I expect that there will be a market at Builders okay and

um so the scheduler I mean like technically speaking what does the scheduler uh allow and do we need also like these blockchain block space auctioning chains to exist or does it take it into account somehow yeah um like where does the auctioning at where does the auctioning actually happen it happens on an on an interchange secure application specific chain okay which doesn't exist which doesn't exist which doesn't exist but the scheduler is the technology that makes it possible for that block space yeah so what exists right now is 10 I mean 0.37 business prepare bot process block yeah we'll write a cosmos SDK module that you can include in your chain yeah um that like fulfills this protocol it'll speak a new IBC protocol so just

like we have interchange accounts interchange security token transfers nft transfers now there will be another one and see you expect many auction blockchains to come into existence like a Marketplace of auction blockchains or is like in the perfect world like there's only one there's one and it's the atom one okay but we'll see so this is this is what you're not uh revealing yet it's like there may be uh an energy security auction chain on the Hub that most people use yep and maybe some others like well I'm marriage and there will be a Marketplace of those but you expect the item one yeah especially because it is being able to offer contiguous blocks across multiple chains is like one of

the most valuable well that's a ton of stuff uh how does like I guess how does this stuff all play together to create an ecosystem of applications that sort of a cruise value and um yeah like so how do we turn this into like the vision for for the cosmos yeah so how does that how does this all fit together so one so one one pint of it is part of it is you know I think the adoption of D5 application I'd say so like you know there's two there's two basic

applications that we found in blockchain so far like one is defy and the other one is nfts yeah um this is really thriving in the D5 space so like for that ecosystem and like how all of this will play and combine and synthesize with the ecosystem I think that is something that's very clear in my mind and I think it'll be increasingly clear to other people the flip side of that is if we want how this plays out with like sort of mass Market consumer applications you know I feel like that is more like stargaze Saga those kinds of things I think like one of my like what is a practical matter like one of the things

that is like a weakness of mine is like look I've been thinking about defy since like 2015. I have been I've been excited about D5 I'm very excited about like expanding the user world of people I think Defy is is huge liberating Force for Humanity uh the sort of current set of mass Market applications I have don't really understand or know very much about so um but I think in this defy ecosystem that we see emerging in Cosmos um this new set of of pieces for Adam make a huge difference I think so yeah it's it's certainly um very exciting and I'm looking forward to seeing like where this is going to be in

three four five years yeah yeah I know it really I think we have we've really set up you know like I think like one of the things that is the queer that should be the clearest takeaway of this conference for people is we've set a North star we hope that the community like is excited and Embraces this North Star we have we have a group of people who are not only going to keep building the stuff that we're already building but it can also build towards this North Star and you know we are doing this with a vision of building a much healthier ecosystem well I think that's a great note to end on and certainly a great ambition thank you thank you so much thank you thanks for doing this

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