S4 - Ep. 6 - Revnets With Jango

Transcript

welcome to the green pill. network podcast if you're just joining us we're building a coordination a network Society of thousands of hackers dreamers and doers focused on using crypto to bring positive some digital systems to the world this podcast features the people who are doing it and we publish a season of five to 10 episodes every couple months this season is all about lean mean Capital allocation machines Capital allocation is the process of deciding how to spend or invest Financial Resources in order to maximize returns with web 3 we can maximize not just Financial returns but achieve imp equals profit achieve growth achieve public goods funding achieve protopia so how do we build cryptoeconomic systems that precisely allocate Capital at scale and remove intermediaries what are the coolest experiments these are the themes

of green pill season 4 lean mean Capital allocation machines one special thing we are doing this season is allowing you to collect this episode all episodes this season are available on chain go to pods. medgreen pill to find the episodes and start collecting thank you to JT nickel. eth how. e Simons SD zerox Lucas Sky Shan W Bren and MMA on chain who are the top collectors as of the recording of this episode if you want to learn more about green pill you can visit our website at Green pill. Network where you can download the the book for free join the Discord and become a member of your local green pill. Network chapter all right my guest today is Jango the founder of Juicebox and the founder of

revets revets are Revenue backed networks of friends investors Builders donors fee paying customers and anons around the world revenants are great for managing revenues and funding open source projects by drisking growth bets for investors providing customizable growth incentives for Founders and rewarding today's contributors with tomorrow's Network growth revets are a new primitive that allow for Capital formation and allocation that aligns interest between all of these party parties in a way that is governance minimized revets for Prototype by D jeno and are now in testnet and I think that what's really interesting is to just D jeno is such a wealth of knowledge about

Capital allocation from his time being involved in Juicebox which is a platform for crypto fundraising and D management and revets which is an opinionated but still configurable framework for doing Capital allocation so a really fun episode with Jango I am just so excited about rev Nets and I think they're going to be a really important primitive for Capital allocation in the future and this season of green pill is all about Capital allocation so without further Ado I give you Jango from Juicebox and revets [Music] enjoy hey Jango what's up Hey Kevin really excited to talk to you about juice boox and revets tell me about juice boox and revets great me too uh so

juice box I guess you can think about it twofold one there's the the technology which is um set of smart contracts that helps with money IO so programming ahead of time U what will happen when money enters a system and under what conditions money can leave a system it's very open-ended therein just gives a handful of levers so you can think of about as a language a bunch of these tools that you can piece together in various ways but it can mean various different things so you can still piece together various different outcomes with the same Juice Box language um and then the second thing Juicebox is is this community of people who came together to create this the technology and that's um all kind of thanks to Juicebox itself it modeled as project ID one on the

Juicebox ecosystem was origin originally just a treasury with zero eth in it and zero jpx outstanding um and then we just kind of proposed rules again under which jbx could be issued out when eth came in and then vice versa under what condition the eth can be accessed when when jbx is given back in or there's some governance layer and just with those simple set of sets of tools people came together and started proposing interesting ideas on how to further that line of thought that research the risk mitigation the security applications Etc um and um it feels very cool to work with a group of people um who are I guess philosophically and idealistically uh aligned in certain aspects but also um

are are very real uh about certain criteria that it takes to work on a project like money is important taking fees is important revenue is important um and um yeah it's it's it's both of those things in my mind it's as much the people as it is the technology and it's kind of given away to this line of research now that's um that that I guess enter rev Nets into the scene yeah what I think is interesting is how you've just sort of been on the frontier of capital allocation through Juicebox I want to say it's been a couple years now but uh the the free Alexi and Roman campaign I was on juice boox if I'm not mistak Constitution Dow was launched on Juicebox so you've seen a lot of people

trying to fund their thing through through Juicebox yeah and that's it's a fun kind of cascading story of initially uh an art project um that then people who try to fundraised for the uh among the first nouns released on mainnet emerged that was Shark da who came together and then fundraised um and successfully were able to purchase think five of the first 20 nouns and then just through that story then Constitution now rolled around and um the the the sequence of events a lot of the people kind of were the same in these broader communities um and so uh the work for Juicebox is really risk mitigation and honesty just you know lay the risks out

up front talk about them uh walk line by line about what's happening in the contract when someone makes a payment what are all the trade-offs being made uh from an engineering perspective um and then don't pretend to be something you're not you know um but then along I guess that Journey as I said it's just a function of people um and trusting one another understanding where you're coming from and how how you're prioritizing things um but there's some pretty cool projects and I think the tone of the projects I think really um you know in web 3 there's several tools that do similar things and so a lot of what we become is the function of like the projects that end up being successful on the platform um and that's a lot of stuff that we as individuals not as a company or team like we're not

company we're just kind of a a bunch of folks who contribute to this but it's function of what people pour their time into it's less about building juice box and rather building projects um spending our time in love building projects that just happen to use the tools underneath I'm on your website at juicebox.com work and and I'm assuming it's it's out of seeing those patterns over the last several years that that's where rev Nets came from sort of yeah so I think the big thesis did not really match up with what actually contributed

to its success I think in the first six months ta's old as time yeah yeah um both I think are still great ideas like the original like pre-product conceptualization of why the tools emerged and then what people actually did with the tools are both still really interesting to me but I think what Juicebox got right is it's just a butt button that you click and it's public anyone can contribute to something doesn't matter if you are contributing with the 100 eth or 0.001 eth you can still write a memo and contribute to a community um so it gave rise to a bunch of these open communities um that weren't that didn't have have privileged actors um and it kind of then punted the question of all right how are these treasury governed to just the project

owner which is an nft that can be held by a person or a multisig for a lightweight fundraising effort or maybe a more structured multier non-chain governance system for a more thorough governance process and then we've seen instances of it held by a company or whatever for you know if you're actually running a company with a revenue stream and then payouts you can kind of keep hold of the funds within with with that that that nft but it all comes down to this button and then revets really if like the the trade-off of juice boxes it's very open-ended it's a bunch of tools as I said it's open Ed language so how do you actually write a good project like how do you not write a botched treasury while still doing something

interesting because I think the most um common Juicebox project is a very simple fundraiser where you actually forget about half of the stuff Juicebox does we're just going to take in funds and then issue um a receipt kind of outward a token um outward and then have um be able to pre-program where a percentage of those tokens issued out go so let's say 50% go to the payer 50% go to um let's say the Dallas Treasury and then that's it then maybe a trusted Community member owns a project and can reconfigure the future rules to stop issuance or whatever then you just kind of you know that's the project it had a fundraising period and then um a token distribution situation so rather than

valuing the project at a certain amount pre accepting funds you just open open the thing add a button and then see how many people want to be a part of it um and what rev Nets are is just a defined sequence of how to run a juice boox project that is aimed at M mitigating risks and maximizing opportunities for for Builders I think Builders have had leverage over the past two three years in building building these systems you know as the deployer of smart contracts or even like a pre-written smart contract like Juicebox as the deployer you can kind of set the rules According to which people can participate and then you know the like it's always this power struggle between Builders investors and

like retail customers where like retail is often left with the bag Builders often times are left with the bag in this like retroactive world where like you have to work work work work work and then not really know how much you're getting at the end of the day um so there's all these like kind of trust assumptions baked in and then you know there's circumstances where like everyone is trying to get the leg up but really everyone's building a network together and it's it's a lot more productive if um you can set some rules in motion up front that can't be changed that really you know anyone coming to the table a builder someone who's looking to invest in the project or donate or contribut in in some way and then actually users as well can acknowledge that like hey given all the things I could be working on investing

in or using this is the network I want to be a part of because uh it works for me just as much as I work for pit there's a few uh restrictions of the the more open-ended juice boox protocol that really create what a revet is but even therein there's a few different ways to express it so we can go into exactly what those levers are um there's a few uh restrictions of the the more open-ended Juice Box protocol that really create uh what a revnet is but even therein there's a few different ways to express it so we can go into exactly what those levers are um or talk about kind of more broad uh broad reaching like how revets um tend to think about problem solving when it comes to Capital allocation yeah I mean I I've got the

website r n.e. limo in front of me and there's a link in the show notes for the listeners but uh it says they're Revenue backed friends of Revenue backed networks of friends investors Builders and donors coordinating without the need for governance they're great for managing revenues and funding open source projects uh so I don't know the thing that stuck out to me there was the the without the need for governance for those of us who did Dows the last time around know how much overhead there is to coordinating proposals and I think that it's interesting that you've set up this sort of system this convention that allows people to coordinate with minimal overhead yeah that's I think that's a big feature for me is you can scope the amount of governance uh that you want to have in your system uh meaning for every

dollar that goes into the system it's not all at risk of governance there's you can you can pre-prescribed can be governed by a a production unit or quote core team or Dow or someone that can leverage funds raised but you're you're not at the at the point where every token holder manages every dollar in the system a lot of the the the like you can you can set it up such that the majority of participants in the network are der risked by default but while also empowering of of movement to be funded and to go forth I think another big idea that revets benefit from which is actually uh it's actually a part of the

underlying juice boox EOS system um in this kind of new rev netsh world is cross chain or more Omni chain treasuries meaning uh by Omni chain I mean it it should work everywhere on ethereum it's not a consequence of like oh I have a Revenant it runs on base oh I have a Revenant it runs on Arbitron you don't like choose which chain to run on I think a big complexity with capital allocation the past few years apart from governance as you mentioned was that in order to operate on various chains you know it's easy to take a smart contract that's evm compatible and just print it everywhere but then in order to take fees or to actually do some interesting Capital allocation Capital formation you have to extract to a multisig that that's then managed by an external

entity right you can have for instance like protocol a on chain let's say optimism arbitr main net um and just throw an address okay 5% rev share goes to my address right and then I as a person kind of be everywhere it's it's a lot harder to have a system that's entirely on chain where the revenues doesn't matter which chain you're on kind of all talk to one another and a similar Network or the same network across chains okay so yeah the two things that I think I've come up so far that I really like about revets are a the fact that you can scope governance uh to a subset of the community or the Network's total assets uh their total Capital meaning every dollar that goes

into the network isn't at the mercy of a token vote uh between all the token uh holders um you can say great let's say 10% of the network will be governed by a production team or whatever meaning every dollar that goes into the network um let's say it issues uh 10 Network tokens out say nine of those go to the person paying that dollar and then one of those goes to um a production team or whatever then you know the person paying in the dollar still has access to the majority of that Revenue uh we're no longer everyone governing BR the the shared Revenue together uh rather I who put in the dollar still have access to

most of my funds and I also benefit from the network growth so there's this scoped go governance thing that I find nice because no one wants to govern a long taale of small small treasuries which is I think where we've been the past few years is governance is great we all want to be a part of something and we do and governance is great but we all mostly just want to at most govern a few things a few things uh that have um either significant promise or significant value upfront or that we really passionately care about um but it's tough to govern a long taale of treasuries it's tough to make and review proposals with Integrity often and so it's better to let Capital kind of do its work without always necessarily

keeping our thumbs uh kind of on on the scale there and the second thing that I really like about revets this is kind of a a function of the underlying juice box components in this um this world we're moving to so call it Juicebox V4 is omn chain treasuries meaning you can have a treasury that lives on various chains and it can grow to new chains over time as U promising ones emerge so you don't have to launch a treasury um like on Bas or on arbitrum or on mainnet or on optimism you you you can launch a treasury that's anywhere on ethereum um and that means you can collect revenue

and funds anywhere on ethereum and as it does it'll issue its Network token back out and those tokens along with Revenue can kind of be bridged across various chains depending on where revenue is currently it can grow from there so this this um idea that we like we we want to move into a world where treasuries are like safe places and the best places to Route revenue and Route uh Capital formation are both expansive they're able to grow into new ecosystems over time they're not restrain to like one chain and they're be not at the risk of governance all the time so that's like the I guess the the two um kind of high value bits of rev Nets um but the reason they came about really was like I'm

building a lot of other projects with people and I need a place to point revenues too in a way that's productive for the network they're trying to build I'm not really trying to spend a lot of my time on growth and marketing I want to be able to afford those things but I also want the network to kind of make itself up and benefit from it making itself up I don't want the network to work for me I the network to work for itself I just want to plant some seeds um and kind of see you know as things need attention maybe kind of be around to kind of also you know have my own incentives to be around and motivate them in Positive Directions um but I I'm I'm a strong believer in taking fees I'm a strong believer paying for work and and asking to be paid for work um strong

believer in you know like I think we live in a world where people expect someone else to to tell them that they're good enough or to tell them that like hey you do deserve this much or that much and it's really hard to communicate your way out of that for yourself and I'm I believe in a world where we can kind of encourage people to take that step of confidence um and recognize work they do and get paid for it um if it's if it's adding value um yeah revets are just kind of a way when I was taking a step back and thinking about what's what are all the things I want in a network to that's like Revenue crewing and it motivates more Capital to come in um kind of landed at something like a revet although it's still going

to manifest in various ways depending on the project some uh are going to be more conservative longer term and some are going to be more mtic high energy like U more amm take the Reigns but um I guess on that note you can kind of think of a a revet as kind of guard rails on an amm so adding a price ceiling and a price floor so you know in the beginning there zero tokens issued you don't have to do this big air drop just you know open up your button uh for Capital coming in and then the guard rails are like okay there's this price ceiling so the rate which I can make new new liquidity into this network um the price floor is the rate which I can um put in my tokens to get part of the revenue back out and

both of these are necessarily increasing but if I have a larger difference between the price floor and the price ceiling then as liquidity gets generated on the price ceiling then it can fund something like an amm which is a more you know maker taker Vibe like where's the price at it's uh like you know it depends on what the energy of the day is um and so that kind of you know um if you're widening the price healing than the price for then you give a lot more power back to this amm back to this amplification cycle whereas if it's tighter then um you just have a kind of more long-term commitment to where like participants in the future will be treated similarly to participants in the present by some kind of standardized

rate let's say token access three months from now is at most going to be let's say 20% more expensive than it is today um so you you avoid the temptation to amplify narrative to just pump and dump bags I'm on a sim. ret. apppp which is a calculator that yall have built where people can test different assumptions about how their revnet will operate and I just think it's so cool that you have a calculator that allows people to sort of turn the dial and see how the revnet is going to operate super cool that's built by Phillip philli is a machine and he's one of the kindest people and funniest people um but he also is very verbose so that's a complicated simulator and there's a lot of parameters there that make it very comp but but hard to really grasp um if you

go to revet doapp um that's like the main uh application where you can create a new new revet um and visit some already in progress although the explore and visiting stuff is pretty hard to find everything's on testnet right now to be clear and there you'll see the simple create flow where you know you just add a few basic uh details about your your revet and then schedule the stages of the revet which are the time boxed fixed rules so first 28 days here are the rules and the next two years here are the rules and then for for ever on afterwards these are what these are what the rules going to be once you deployed to revet those rules are fixed forever so everyone knows at the very beginning

what the rules would will be how the token issuance and how kind of access to revenue will change over time and so um it kind of levels uh this kind of information asymmetry playing field where um you know traditionally you would think of like oh I want to start a project I want to take Investments let me go hire a lawyer to write a safe contract or a Saft contract then let me talk to investors as to what deal they're best they're most comfortable with and it's only a a group of let's say you know five to 20 people who maybe got the phone call or and are taking interest uh who are going to be shaping those rules and then it still leaves so much open ended as to what could happen and so um how revnet scheduled is like

great even if you have those discussions ahead of time you can set it in motion then everyone can have the same button to participate in such that no one is really treated with this information asymmetry ahead of time um so hopefully obviously often times uh in consumer crypto and just in crypto in general people don't tend to appreciate some of these intricacies that really create a a a um more optimistic playing field for the broader set of participants um but those who do tend to really care about it and stick around then stick with the the the actual modality of more efficient Capital formation which to me is what blockchains really enable so I one of the sort of patterns that's

appearing in my mind as I hear you talk about both Juicebox and revets is this idea of convention versus is configuration configuration is like Linux where B you can basically go in and you can edit anything uh to do to do almost anything within the realm of what's possible in the software and Convention is like an Apple product where it's just it's it's like opinionated and and directional and it and it works out of the box um and and it's feeling like to me the relationship between juice boxes that it's infinitely composable and configurable and rev Nets are more opinionated about how it the optimal condition for D to work is is that fair is there any push back on that I think that's fair um and even within revets I think you can still see some

very Subs um I think we are going to get to this point where there's going to be maybe two or three like tried and true um ways to set up a revet but it leaves room for creativity and I think that's been something that I've learned a lot um in my journey making is like this tendency to you know see the opportunity for optionality and therefore create it because I feel like I'm empowering uh you know future self in some ways or or the other to actually take the tool and actually craft it in a way that's that makes sense but I think it does more of a favor sometimes to future self and to others to actually

have a strong opinion about how something should work and then let that future self for other person uh think about the new layer of creative details and trust that that like current self or in that case past self had an intuition of like you know what just reduce down to the Nugget of truth that um that that works and later on if you need to open up again know that you have access to do so uh by going one level deeper into that into that stack maybe it's going back to the Juicebox stack and you know leaving the the revet layer um in this metaphor but I I I think I'm with you like the goal is simplifying things for the end user the end product while also

I think there are a few things that are hard to negotiate and some of the things are like the reason I'm building this thing is to um uh like create a way to balance the equation between let's say Builders investors and Retail users or have a place to point fees um the simplest solution is something we've tried before and it might be the most optimal solution for the majority of people but like I am stubborn and trying something new that I think you know works for me and might work for other people or you know it's works for the people around me who are also helping to inform it might work for other people um but it's not the global maximum because maybe that's

the simplest solution that makes tradeoffs that are more ideological in nature I'll probably always be caught a little bit on the stubborn side of things when I like in that equation I'm I'm much more kind of satisfied building something that I really believe in for myself and um and and you know I guess with feedback and Confirmation and and evaluation from people around um than building like the billion person billion dollar thing that like everyone uses right well um I'd love to have you react to the thesis behind this season of green pill as I mentioned before we're recording this season is about lean mean

Capital allocation machine basically our hypothesis is that we're going to be able to do Capital formation Capital allocation differently on chain than was possible before so we've now got transparent immutable programmable Global blockchains and I think they we're going to be able to do scalable more scalable more precise types of capital allocation than we've ever done before we're going to be able to remove intermediaries and um and yeah I mean sort of the point of this this this season is to go broad on what's going on on in the onchain capital allocation World obviously rev Nets and Juicebox are are their own category of of theory in practice here what is your reaction to to that thesis and what are the most

exciting little nuggets that you think that we should explore this this season I think my immediate reaction is to break up the the the thesis into the technical layer and then the the social layer of of uh you know like Al like once you've accumulated capital and allocating it deciding on where it goes is oftentimes a question of evaluation and understanding the criteria that you know was that was kind of preempted the work and then compare it to the results of some sorts and it's going to it's very hard to be technically precise with all those things you know have like hard

numbers as the quantitative evaluative uh kind of form factor for this lean mean machine and so having the social layer uh with with effective checks and balances without administrative bloat is I think an interesting and difficult problem um um what are more efficient ways to to um to conduct that allocation um problem I think I've read a lot of your takes on retro active public goods funding I think those experiments are really exciting I think there's a lot to learn there I think um there's um some things that you know may feel Rough Around the

Edges or unsustainable in some ways but I think those experiments are so important just to push the conversation forward so that we have we have um actual events that have happened we can point to and talk about them directly um into their what caus they're planning and then um how do we think about them uh their effect after they've happened I don't spend a lot of time thinking about that problem to be honest I I um spend a lot of most of my time thinking about the the flip side of how Capital accumulates in the first place and then you know once capital is accumulated and then you have certain top level um um directives as to who has access to that Capital then you know let's say you

allocate some to some retroactive program then comes this question of all right how do we evaluate um our our our objectives um our results and stuff like that I don't have good answers for those um but I'm I love observing what people are trying um Juicebox is currently a governance process um jbx token voted governance process um bi-weekly uh proposal so if folks want to propose something to the Dow deadlines are every other Friday then there's a three-day temperature check and then a five-day snapshot vote and then we we schedule the next uh Juicebox rule set to take effect to actually like do the the payouts and all of the the allocation

bits um but again like no one wants a long tale of governance um so how do we go from a system where like okay many people have great ideas and have have fledgling but powerful communities of 20 30 100 people who are like you know very Mission oriented and and how do we kind of get to um a place for money you know retroactively we feel like money is well spent and work is well spent alongside the other thing that makes me think of is I think leadership is always going to be really important even in Dow world with all the tools that we have all the Technologies even like the social layer emerging um where you know we have different criterias of you know you've

collected these nfts and been in this community maybe I can trust you a little bit even with all that stuff um Capital still wants great leaders um once someone uh who you know has proven they can manage 20K of capital toward certain ends and then capital is going to want to give them 200k to allocate towards certain ends um because at the end of the day like it's it's hard to allocate Capital it's hard to make Capital productive we're in this phase with all these tools that we're re-evaluating what productivity means but I think I think that that like strong leadership is impossible to represent in contract form um or in kind of a dispersed decentralized form too um

and I'm really interested to see how that evolves over the next uh few years because I don't think strong leaders are the loudest or the most steadfast or the most of like demanding of capital to allocate um but I think everyone who wants who believes they they they have an idea um or thinks that they can take on a certain allocated capital and turn it into something um I encourage everyone to stand up and and and try to make it happen I think there's people out there who want to experiment and to have people earn their trust there's way far few good leaders uh kind of in in in the crowd um and I think um I think that's like that's what

I'm looking for personally and like thinking about how to allocate communities Capital it's like not the minutia it's more like big Ideas strong leadership to actually do so effectively yeah great to get your reaction there um one one of the things that sort of popped into my mind as you were speaking is is how this is true in some cases but not all cases how inextricable Capital allocation is from Capital formation and what I think you've done with revets is built a really interesting circuit between Capital allocation and capital formation that's kind of like reflexive and that and that it kind of like feeds on each other and and um yeah I I think revets are sort of an interesting idea that combine a lot of the things that

you've learned over the years and and the fact that they they sort of like build a range of outcomes for for people who are generating revenue is um is one interesting thing but another interesting thing is that they're actually built around onchain Revenue like let's just stop and appreciate here how few Dows actually have onchain revenue and you're building away for those Dows the good Dows that are probably going to be part like defining the future of onchain capital allocation you've you've built a way for them to route route flows of Revenue and I think that's really important if we're going to move from speculation to fundamentals 100 perc yeah I think there's open source appreciation that's one thing and there's open accounting appreciation um

open source can still be built by uh like a corporate with various incentives that are hard to understand um and openly accounted for uh concept uh means you know all the money in Money out are openly accounted for and I think open source with open accounting is uh one of the most competitive um ideas that we can propose in the upcoming years um so I'm very excited about about that about you know um despite it being open source and forkable take a fee route it to somewhere productive that's openly accounted for and you will likely outcompete the free alternative um

because people want to pay for uh things that work and that work for them um and I think the the the coolest part about the revnet release for me is that the first project we're doing um apart from the base protocol project which collects fees akin to how jbx collects fees on Juicebox V3 um so is this uh Banny uh this pixelated Banny collection you can find that b.e.

limo um it's going to be offered on various chains so you can U buy uh one of four or any number of naked Banes there's an alien Banny a pink Banny an orange Banny and an igal Banny and then you can buy outfits for these Banes wear them um all of the revenues for all these collections doesn't matter which chain you're buying them from go uh into the bny revet uh which will men to Banny and so you know you're going to have this Banny Network these nfts everywhere this animated series and content production thing happening um but the thing that's really exemplifying behind the scenes is that you can have this revenue generated open network that still has mtic value but is actually powering something it's powering uh

these uh it's powering giving this character a voice and building this culture U while also being powered um by the actual sales actually U actual Revenue actual Believers um in what bny stands for which is transparency uh and um and a little good good faith and Good Humor along the way well uh we're getting back towards the bottom of the of the episode so I got to start wrapping up is there anything I didn't ask that you want to say I think that covered a lot of it yeah um it's it can get kind of confusing with so many projects launching at once so the thing about what's about to happen this upcoming wave is we have a Juicebox V4 which is its own protocol project

meaning it um relates to projects on that fork just as jbx relates to projects on the Juicebox V3 Fork no one should really care about that layer but it will still be talked about still trying to document it well so people understand what they're getting into and the risks involved then on top of that you have revets which is this uh this opinionated levers of how to deploy a project um and then on top of that you have this this Banny collection um which benefits from the layers underneath so there's a lot of these pieces uh that are in play they all relate to jbx in a particular way um so there's going to be plenty of documentation um over the next while to really kind of uh clarify and

and make uh I guess yeah clarify what everything does at the same time this upcoming month of April we're doing a big bug bash and hackathons just to kind of stress test all all of these layers while they're on test Nets um we're kind of going to be code complete at that point and just running on test Nets trying to keep you know a month of not needing to change anything Meanwhile we're um have a bunch of awesome um rewards for folks who come in and help help make sure these things are as crispy as we can get them um a lot of these these Banny nfts uh will be will be part of that priz pool so um more info on that coming soon I think that's yeah it's going to be

exciting few months here and then it's all Theory until it's actually live and we get to put pressure on it and then see what sticks and there's nothing as valuable as as doing so so excited to get to that point for sure um what do you think in 10 years this all looks like if you're maximally successful it's a good question um I don't think that far in advance ever so like dayto day and so like uh what's what's like what's in front of me um I think if we're maximally successful the coolest bit for me won't be I think the most exciting bits for other people I think if it's successful it means that the protocol project which is going to

be very conservative in its issuance policy it's revet issuance Pro uh policy meaning let's say it starts issuing um a thousand tokens per eth coming in the tokens are called Nana tokens um start let's say starts issuing a th per eth coming in every week it'll basically decrement about 1% so the next week it'll be 900 90 um per eth coming in and so like it'll be like this very very slow issuance Decay policy um which means folks who get in later aren't really at a disadvantage too too much of a disadvantage between folks who get in earlier so you can start to imagine is like a 401k program type thing like a a

DEC L safe place to put your money in now whereas if you were to withdraw right away then you have a penalty right because you're like you can't uh uh like um exiting the network at that point just like getting a rebate you're still paying into the network but waiting over time for an with a network that ha is seeing activity and growing over time um will actually uh is actually a fairly sound safe place to put money over the long term um and so despite maybe all this activity happening on top with fun experiments and memes and nfts and revenue uh strategies the underlying base protocol will kind of serve as this kind of 401k program where like you can

put funds in um or pay like everyone paying fees will be paying fees in um and over time those fees will be pretty sturdily accessible um and grow pretty reliably and I think that's that's success that only happens if there's a vibrant Network on top um but but I love the idea of a vibrant network doesn't mean uh like Fast Moon it rather means a very reliable uh base Network that is uh it's uh I mean safe is a horrible word to use when building on chain protocols because everything Bears significant risk and um I think we should always advise towards the risk um but productive tokenized organizational experiments that um prove

reliably productive and our d RIS are I think we're in need of those yeah well beautifully put jeno I think what you're doing is so cool I think that you're uh a really strong builder in in the Visionary so can't wait to see Juicebox and rev Nets be very successful thanks for coming on the green pill podcast thanks Kevin let's get a REV net up for a green pill see what happens yeah it can also live I think within other structures I don't think it has to be like oh we are a revet and we're not all lot of things um really kind of emphasize that you know a revet can be a piece of the puzzle and as it proves productive maybe it can somewhat like Strangler fig tree like you know make the core trunk obsolete as it's kind of um moving in various directions um but

I'd love to see uh kind of visionary projects that are well intentioned well meaning and doing a lot of work in the world um uh make use of tools that hopefully just help promote that ethos um and it's hard to launch a token for things because you know most well-meaning things token will quickly Cascade into a distraction towards your core truths and values and vision um so finding ways to energize productive Revenue generating sequences like like green pill is is um high in my list of things to attend to and support and give love to for sure yeah well I'm excited to see how rev Nets and getcoin aloe protocol compose so maybe we'll that'll

be something that we can explore in the future but uh yeah in the meantime good luck with the launch and looking forward to see how they seeing how they grow thank you thank you you just heard from D Jango I am excited about Jango because Juicebox has been such a force in crypto fundraising $184 million dollar raised on on juice boox over the last several years and rev Nets seems like a really exciting new primitive for Capital allocation thanks for listening to the green pill. network podcast again we are building a coordination a network Society of thousands of hackers dreamers and doers focus on using crypto to bring positive sum digital systems to the world like Jango like anyone who's launched a ju juice boox and like the initial users of revets if you value our work you can collect this episode go to

pods. medgreen pill to find episodes and start collecting while you're here might as well subscribe rate and review it really helps the algorithms push this EP this podcast out to the people who will be part of the regen crypto movement in the future thanks again for listening and see you next time [Music] he