Coinbase Earnings, Jito Restaking, Memecoin Durability, and Saylor’s Big Announcement | Roundup

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the comment that I was going to say about point basee is I still think that it remains to be the most misunderstood uh like stock on Wall Street PE people who are just like looking at this as if it's you know Revenue got like we exist in a cyclical industry like nothing was going on last year so we're up 100% on the top line but like we guided to something that we thought would be higher nobody expected that you know the election would put a a curtailing on trading activity but if you think about this in terms of four year or 5year Cycles it doesn't matter what happens right now when we're going into 2025 all right everyone this is a message from my D gen listeners out there if you are getting scalped paying expensive fees to per Dees I highly

recommend that you check out index co-op's new leverage Suite now whenever it comes to leverage do your own research this is not Financial advice don't bet more than you can lose all that good stuff but if you are going to lever up you might as well not pay an arm and a leg for it you can get leverage on BTC and eath with built-in liquidation perfection uh now available on Bas mainnet and arbitrum so click the link in the bottom of the show notes and head over and check them out today and you'll hear more from them later in the program hey everyone this episode is brought to you by Supra the vertically integrated L1 for super daps uh they have a very cool new product coming out called Supra containers so head over to supra.com that's supra.com containers so if you're building on an

L1 and it feels a little bit crowded or the complexity of L2 and l3s are getting you down just head over to Supra they'll get you sorted Thank Me Later hey everyone this episode is brought to you by Fuel Labs who's launching fuel ignition a new high performance etherium L2 powered by the fuel VM now you're going to be hearing all about ignition later in the program but for now what you need to know is they are launching phase two of their points program so click the link at the bottom of the show notes and head over start experimenting messing around on fuel today thank me later all right everyone welcome back to another episode of bell curve before we jump in quick disclaimer the views expressed by my co-host today are their personal views and they do not represent the views of any organization with which

the co-hosts are associated with uh nothing in the episode is construed or relied upon as Financial technical tax legal or other advice you know the deal now let's jump into the episode all right everyone welcome back to another Roundup edition of Bel C you got Michael's one to Vance F how we doing Vance very nice hat there you got only came in red what's up I thought those only came in red not when you're close personal friend this the gothic MAA I like I forgot I was wearing this yesterday in the grocery store and there was one guy who looked at me who was definitely pissed that I was there wearing this and then this young guy at the counter was looking at

me and I was like oh man I can't tell if you're angry or not he was like that's a really sweet hat so you know there's a lot of love in the room there's some hate too if you wear that around San Francisco What's the ratio of like weird looks that you get so I I I was testing Vance this over the last couple weeks there's only been one type of um driving around San Francisco and kind of different parts of San Francisco there's only been one type of uh not protest I guess like group of people who are like promoting someone um in terms of Elections and and campaigns it's only been Trump supporters like you you drive past Union Square I did this a couple weekends ago each corner there's

like 20 people with like make America great again Trump fans and then the uh a couple months ago this is a while back but um David saaks hosted uh Trump and Vance at uh his house for a fundraiser and it's like I don't know eight or 10 blocks away from me and it's kind of up on this hill and so I went up you know to go check it out and see all the protesters and see everybody who you know was throwing tomatoes and whatnot and in reality it was literally the opposite and there were hundreds of people who are pro Trump with flags and you know honking horns and it's been pretty interesting to see that there's like a a total of bace um from what I would have expected publicly in San Francisco um I'm sure there's going to

be a lot of uh you know animosity one way or another uh post election but this is actually going to be our last pod prior to election yeah one round away just vote and like you know if you have a problem with the hat like I I don't know what to tell you just is what it is the country has to move on from if if you're not on my side then you're my enemy type thinking in general I'm just not that that mentality is the only undemocratic process that we have that I have seen yeah it's also just it's not going to work we're we are one nation here you gotta you gotta move past I'm very yeah I'm optimistic that we

did you did you see actually Trump riding around in that garbage truck it's been a big week for garbage in the in the political cycle recently the one thing that no one can deny is that he is the one of the most incredible showmen just on the face of the Earth and be able to take a I mean also pretty insane that you have the sitting president calling half the country garbage on you on a a zoom call but being able to have that come around within 24 hours and him ride to the next rally in a dump truck and a garbage truck you got the out there literally running running a shift with the local garbage collectors in

Pennsylvania I mean just what an incredible like series of events it's yeah flabbergasting very strong marketing move and just the coordination actually do that in that period of time very good IRL troll yeah very good IRL troll um interested time should we cover glow yeah let's talk about it you guys want to uh set the ground work there for glow sure um yeah so glow is an investment that we announced today um the we're colling it with Union Square Ventures um and what it is is uh it is essentially a network um where it

incentivizes the production of net new solar power uh and spefic specifically the way that the incentive model works is it incentivizes the production of net new solar in particularly dirty energy areas and so uh what you can think about is solar comes in solar power has two kind of um offshoots of the actual solar farm operating the first is energy and that energy can either be consumed or it can be sold the second is carbon credits and carbon credits are supposed to represent I mean carbon credits represent uh the amount of car that is being reduced from the energy production in a uh renewable way and historically you've you've had companies like apple

Microsoft Google buy carbon credits to have a carbon offset of whatever they're producing from a carbon perspective and this could be you know we're going to sponsor a portion of the rainforest in in the Amazon this could be um you know we're going to actually build solar Farms to produce more energy and those carbon credits are actually valuable there's an exchange where they're traded on um and so the production of new uh solar is both creating Revenue um for the energy and then the carbon credit production as well what glow does is when you want to operate a new solar farm you you commit that solar farm to the glow Network you turn over all of the revenue that's going to be generated for that solar farm based off of the energy price of wherever that solar farm is located and how big that solar farm

is and then you get a cut of the revenue that is shared amongst all the solar Farms so you get your Revenue you get a cut of the revenue back but then you also get glow tokens as an incentive for for uh producing and and then also joining the network and what glow um ultimately wants to do is build the largest network of solar power in the world um and as part of this investment we are also building a number of solar farms uh in Rajan India which is in the northwest corner uh of India pretty close to Pakistan it's definitely you know a high carbon credit production area um and and therefore low energy cost area um but India is kind of a great case

study in this where about 1% of the energy mix right now in India is solar and they have a mandate in the next five years to turn that actually from 1 to 25% so there's a lot of incentive and a lot of uh you know government initiative to provide more solar um but with this you know we're we're going to be a large operator of a solar farm as well as investing in the protocol and um you know the ultimate goal is to build um the largest network of of green power and have that be incentiv IED and and um adjudicated by a network yeah I think the the other stuff to add is um it's a very Regional game and and like what glow is is like this big Global game for solar as a service

where you can mine crypto with with with solar and some people are calling it like the green Bitcoin which I think is pretty spot-on in terms of branding but you know people who sponsor regions maybe they're solar farm operators maybe they're governments who are trying to accelerate the transition maybe they are utilities who trying to bring more power online um the math is such that like you know the floor that you would sponsor uh a zone for would be like just like the price of the carbon credits like say you're like an unaffiliated government you're just like look we're going to sponsor you know these zones we're going to get the carbon credits we're going to trade them or we're going to retire them like that would be probably the minimum you would pay for a Zone the maximum would be you know someone who's like a

self-interested solar operator who has a power purchase agreement negotiated who wants to buy or or wants to get more emissions into their region and the ceiling that they would pay is like the carbon Credit Value Plus the value of the emissions which are based on the value of the BuyBacks that happen in the system um and it's growing incredibly quickly I mean there's a lot of exciting stuff in terms of more power that's coming online in the power purchase agreements that they negotiate um but I mean it's one of the most ambitious largest Tam and and frankly the founder is amazing to the founder is David VOR um he's really kind of cut from the cyberpunk ethos of uh you know he was mining Bitcoin in 2012 he started CA um and now this is his next project and I

mean it's super super bullish and think energy is going to be a great next market for crypto it's fragmented it's localized it's liquid It's Always On Demand um these are kind of the properties of things that really get us excited and I think it's going to be the number one dpin app for for a long long time yeah just to put a Capstone on it a dpin is definitely the category that it's in I think energy is maybe a little bit bigger than just dpin you know in comparison to the networks that it currently exist but uh glow for instance is already the highest revenue generating deepin category by a large margin uh and that and that's prior to these new Farms coming online that's huge I don't know much about the solar Market in general like why I guess if you're looking at the wide world of

energy why start with solar as opposed to something like I'm probably asking really stupid questions here but why solar versus wind versus other categories so I what I would say is that everybody kind of has their take on um you know which solar or sorry which which power source is g to be the most important and I think the right answer is it's not just one it's actually a portfolio um and what ultimately we need to get to is being able to have high Basel load energy but also a high mix of renewable energy and the two methods of getting basically to those places is in our view and and now the department of energy is coming out and saying the same thing is is that is a mix of nuclear and a mix of solar wind is pretty strong but it's not it is not as power productive

as you would have for for a cost perspective as you would have with solar the thing about solar which is amazing is in the last five years the cost of solar production has gone down 90% in the next three years it expected to go down another 90% so all all in it's 99% less expensive if you're talking about you know the production of solar in 2026 27 um so it's kind of like the you're riding the wave of like the equivalent of Mo's law in energy um from a production perspective and what you have with solar and one of the interesting tidbits you know being in California at noon in California Pacific Standard Time 100% of the energy that you're pulling from the grid is from solar and then would which is kind of an amazing fact

in and of itself but during daylight and during daytime a lot of places will rely pretty heavily on solar obviously you can't do that when it's cloudy or when it's at night and so you have to rely other sources like you know at current in current standing it's diabo Canyon which is a nuclear power facility in California then there's also a lot of natural gas natural gas is technically a clean energy it's not a renewable energy but natural gas is much better than coal nuclear is much better than natural gas and solar is renewable um and and prevalent um and so there there's a lot of kind of Tailwinds I would say from an energy perspective you you actually started to see this you know to go back to elections uh it's become a bipartisan an issue in that the current

Administration has put a man or the current Department of energy has put a mandate of having 200 new nuclear power stations in the next five to 10 years um or at least permitting them and starting the process they take about seven years to build um and and even Elon comes out has come out and said solar is the future of energy just because of the cost and and the direction of where solar is going um and so our view is that energy and being able to be energy secure as a as a nation or or any Nation uh is is going to be a mix of probably nuclear and solar as the future of energy the last last thing I'd say on that is like solar is the only form of energy that scales at the pace of crypto I mean you can deploy gigawatts of solar

in you know months worth of time a nuclear power plant that's a gwatt takes probably 10 years to develop same with a KN gas plant maybe a little bit less like five years um and so the cost and the speed of solar is kind of purpose-built for crypto and there's a huge crash in the Solar industry over the past like five years where um you know people offered to buy back the solar panels and like the cost has since come down so far that that doesn't make sense a lot of people have been um you know hurt as a result but the kind of reforming of the solar industry with an order of magnitude cheaper panels is the next step forward and then after that is batteries but like frankly batteries are not grid scale yet like you can do Tesla power walls for your home but really

kind of the point of glow is like we're going after the commercial electricity Market first um and that seems to be just a much more palatable market in terms of you know you don't have to fight the hand toand combat of going door Todo signing people up for net metering signing people up for you know installing their own solar panels um because that's a lot of how the original solar operators crashed in the first place uh maybe final question for you guys here and then that'll lead into our second story about jeto but what do you think about with these infr I'd be curious what was behind the decision actually you know run and operate your own field of solar panels and like I'm very curious just in general about in these infrastructure networks it almost feels like dog fooding your own product

a little bit so to speak like how do you just walk me through that decision I I mean well I first and foremost there's an element of um wanting to be participatory in the network and support the things that we invest in um but ultimately each of these whether it's a direct investment or if it's you know investing in building out and operating solar Farms we have to look at as independent investment opportunities and evaluate them as such and obviously we we wanted to do the investment that closed well before closing of the solar Farms but the economics of this ecosystem are extremely powerful and and that I think is kind of the unlock here uh where we built the largest computer

which is Bitcoin we've built the largest database which is filecoin we should be able to build the largest solar Network and this is the network this is the capability that that glow is going to enable and for the first time ever you have the incentive model where if you're a government or your your company that wants to contribute to solar you can directly put money in that directly ties to the production of new solar in a specific region whereas right now the best thing that you can do as a government and say hey I'm gonna give you guys some tax incentives please maybe go build something but but it's like well you'll be able to recruit some of your cost once you're done this is like direct incentive uh you know solar as a service we're going to need to get you guys fans we're going to replace

that hat with a construction hat for next time you can uh I that'll look good on you guys one last thing um Roger India is is far away I was gonna say it what's the what's the flight like is there a direct line it is a bit of a trip this what's the weather like in riston is it I get imagine deser it's it's right on the border of India and Pakistan um and so you can imagine it's it's like Eastern Pakistan Western India so like couple slides from this presentation I gave to some allocators last month this is the energy mix of

India today and you know there there and there's like a bunch of things that drive power growth one is like AI data center demand which basically every country wants to participate in one is like the modernization of economy so like you know you need more steel for a modernizing economy you need more energy to produce that steel and then the the really interesting thing is like one of the things that's driving additional electricity consumption in India is just that it's getting hotter and people want air conditioning and you know in in India last year electricity use for air conditioning jumped 26% and that that is what's driving a lot of their electricity um needs so like this is David and the team in India you know you know field dreams go

and and this is the uh that that's the first solar farm we built that's our first solar farm that's the four megawatt the 16 megawatts coming on in in probably a couple of weeks but like it's so bullish that like ret turning tokens and incentives and crypto flywheels into real infrastructure and that real infrastructure is revenue generating and then you know CL just like green Bitcoin um but those are kind of the the really interesting things for me at least um and we don't need to talk too much more about glow I think frankly like the token is not going to be out for a while um like we're focused on making sure this is really really compelling you know it has we want to

get you know gigawatt on by you know next year um and so we have a lot of work to do and capital will obviously be a part of that but we've been pleasantly surprised with people coming out of the woodwork and you know in the existing solar industry and saying like Okay how do I stand this stuff up it's very cool that I think the reason people that deepin appeals to people as a category is that there just is a difference software is great um that's kind of what 99.5% of crypto is but actually having something real and tangible in the real world is just cool we last thing I'll say on this is uh one of our one of our uh kind of Partners from the lp side um we were telling them about this and he goes yeah and they

have a ton of different types of LPS and he's like yeah it's really interesting you know the crypto LPS uh that we work with they they just really care about making money but the climate LPS that we work with they don't really seem to care that much about making money and this is the first time where I think we can combine the two and have you know climate but also making money it's like yeah which would be amazing all right so speaking of uh dog fooding the so jto just um they started taking they they put their initial caps in for the staking product um and they hit them I believe within like 12 hours or something like that or some very short amount of time which is unsurprising to me we talked about jto on last week's Roundup because they

there's a proposal which is now live to take a rake on tips um which would be redirected to the Dow but one thing that we didn't talk as much about and I would be curious to get your guys take on is the thing about jeto that I find super interesting is one it's it's a very small very high performance team but two they have all these super interesting product lines they've got reaking they've got me and they've got liquid staking and there are so many synergies in between all these products that haven't even been explored yet right like I I don't know if they could do something like this but you could imagine what if you just redirected the tips from their meev product and added that onto the lstd yield I mean just right there that's a structural

advantage that no other lstd could compete with and you they could do the same thing with reaking right they could just funnel that yield towards the LST and be dominant I mean the dis limit in terms of what they could actually do which is super cool um and the other thing about them is you know salana salana it's an integrated chain right so there's a lot of uh there's a lot of stuff in the around the me parts of of that chain which probably could be decentralized in the same way that I think people were initially very excited about uh igen lay on ethereum and they're like hey maybe we could take some of the these sidecar offchain Solutions like EV boost and make it more decentralized through reaking I think there's a huge opportunity for J to

essentially do that on the salana side and I don't really think it would make sense for like an IG IG lay is just much more ethereum focused and jto is kind of the salana solution right so I see Vince you got a chart here for is this jeto soul look look at this chart 14 million soul I mean we we work with the jeto team pretty closely and you know their goals are like 50 million next year 100 million the year after that uh and the the chart that I've seen people meing on crypto Twitter is jeto aen um which you know I I think like it's GNA be interesting to see if this kind of I mean our thesis on goo is that

it'll be worth you know Ian plus flash Bots plus Lio which is probably like 10 billion in fdv or something around that they need to get to like 50 million of soul and need to kind of probably deploy one or two other business lines um but like jto is the same thing as Salon in our mind it's just vertically integrated and um I don't know like what else is there to say other than they're just absolutely crushing it I was going to say the the thing that I would say is um the team is one of those teams that you're just like that is exemplary of where you want every of your portfolio teams to be and obviously Lucas and and everybody working on it but just like

the way that they navigate the IDM as and also the the the speed at which they operate I think that comes from a couple of things obviously a clear direction of where things are going but also and we've said this before but like a deep willingness to chew glass when things aren't going great and not have it rattle or Shake uh or or change the direction um and when you have that like there's there's a lot of faults in you know experiences at companies but one of them um you know that I think is with Dropbox when I was there is that the founders kind of just like fell ass backwards into success and I don't think that they recognize kind of like what got them there and so there therefore they weren't able to navigate and make similar decisions that would lead them

to the next level um and obviously it's been successful it's a publicly traded company etc etc but you know it it is what it is but I I think when you know what has gotten you there and you know kind of the direction that you need to go um and that Clarity of mindset is uh it's a unique property completely agree and I I should caveat we caveat it last time I a small but proud bag holder and J you guys are slightly larger but proud bag holders and jeto so just as a disclaimer there but yeah I mean also I've got the receipts like you know Lucas has been coming on the Pod for years when I was kind of digging around salana a couple of years ago he was one of the guys that I talked to about it that was like no

this is real come look and yeah I think they've actually you know is was one I I'd be curious to get your guys take on this from your from the investor side of things I I was talking to a buddy of mine this week about this where the salana ecosystem of Founders is still relatively small um like it's a little bit thinner than I would expect and if you told me like if you just showed me the chart of salana you know starting a year and a half ago what the ecosystem looked like then versus today obviously there's been a big sentiment shift and everyone knows Salon isn't going away and there's all this talk about ethereum versus salana but there hasn't been a huge explosion in terms of entrepreneur ship there there has been there have been new products that have launched grass went live this week Etc but I'd

have just expected more a little bit and I would just be curious am I off there do you guys feel the same way is there any explanation for that or what do you think about that son is very concentrated with pump out fun activity so I think like the bet on salana is kind of like a bet on pump out fun at the moment and kind of the durability of Meme coining and that's been like I mean it's always kind of chunky in terms of app success there's not going to be 100 successful apps there's always going to be like two or three um but I think uh you know really kind of like where we see the users are in games you know Off the Grid pixels like there's a handful of things that are really working on the

gaming side they're not necessarily based on soul um none of them are yeah the next FL up for salana is basically like building at a real lending ecosystem like the lack of Leverage the lack of stable coins it's all kind of interrelated and if I like that's probably the clearest path forward for soul and you definitely want kind of like another leg of your economics stool to be unrelated to meme coining like I think meme coining mem coining probably persists in the bull market and and you know probably does pretty well like maybe it doesn't do quite as well given just like there's going to be more of them there's going to be less of a graduation rate Etc but I mean Solana's next step is like it needs to build out like real

defi in a in a lending context and like I think ethereum can be understood as like a lending chain um lending build stable coins which builds swaps which builds activity which builds you know all these ecosystem projects and that's kind of my take on Soul like you know our how we play Soul is you know from a perspective of like we want to own the best ecosystem projects and right now it's like jeto and and pumped out fund are probably the two best ones in the ecosystem but it's kind of circular like jeto relies on pump for its fees Salo relies on pump for its fees it's like just need probably diversification is is probably the next best thing for them to do he everyone this episode is brought to you by index Co-op and their new

product The Leverage Suite which I highly recommend that you check out click the link in the bottom of the show notes now disclaimer whenever it comes to leverage do your own research this is not Financial advice all that good stuff don't bet more than you can lose but if you are going to lever up you might as well not pay an arm and a leg and save a ton of money and use inex cops leverage sweep so the way that they actually achieve these savings is pretty cool they Leverage The Power of money Legos defi uh in this case Unis Swap and a so the cost of carry for this trade is actually based on the funding rate of a as opposed to per Dees which tend to be much more variable and higher overall additionally Peres will also charge you usually based on the entire uh open

interest so the leverage exposure that you have as opposed to just the amount of money that you put in which is what index Co-op is doing here and the result of what you get is just an erc20 which gives you something like 2x e so if you want to lever up and you want to save money doing it I highly recommend that you go check out the index Co-op leverage Suite very very cool thank you very much index Co-op for making this episode possible hey everyone this episode is brought to you by Supra the new blazing fast vertically integrated L1 which helps you scale your D if you are a builder you're probably dealing with some combination of cost complexity and fragmentation of existing Solutions so you're building over an eel 2 land everything's feeling a little bit fragmented at the moment and if you're

building in salana everything is fast and on one layer but maybe you're limited in terms of what you can do with your ab space so Supra is rolling out a new product called Supra containers you can head over to supra.com Containers um to learn more they offer dedicated customizable app spaces running on suprus 500,000 TPS layer 1 blockchain that gives you complete control over gas tokens and fees so some cool things you can do you get the freedom to you can use your own token create local fee markets or even go gas list whatever you want so this product isn't live yet but because you're a faithful listener of vurve you get notified first so head over to supra.com Containers Thank Me Later hey everyone this episode is brought to you by Fuel Labs who's unveiling their new high

performance ethereum L2 fuel ignition many of you know fuel as the launcher of the first optimistic stage two rollup on ethereum with fuel V1 and now they're launching ignition to address some of the creeping centralization concerns around some uh L2 architectures today and if you like noting out about the tech there's a lot of reasons to get excited about ignition including how they solve State sustainability and perform an execution they have this utxo asset Centric architecture that's very very cool but there's a lot of other reasons to love it super easy to use you can either use a fuet wallet or your existing ethereum or Salon based wallet like Phantom or metamask or whatever it is there are cool apps that you can experiment with and again like I said at

the top of the program they're launching phase two of their points program so click the link at the bottom of the show notes head over start having fun on fuel ignition today just tell them that I sent you I've got I've got a question for you guys uh radium has been doing very well recently The Exchange and there I've seen a couple takes that this is this is great because this is reflecting value and radium is getting rated based on its fundamentals there is another reason why radium might be trading the way it's trading which is pump. fund doesn't have a token yet and everyone wants a proxy for that and so I'm curious those are the two explanations that kind of make sense to me i' be more in the pump doesn't have a token and this is the this is the proxy for that where do you they also leak so

much value to radium yeah yeah the the the lp automatically graduates from the bonding curve to radium if thats if that stops happening like radium's volume will go to zero I was gonna say that radium is another one that's in the symbiotic relationship with pump uh just just because of that graduation process and I think radium well it it depends on you know what the future plans for pump are but like let's say if pump was to build its own exchange or its own capability similar to radium I think that that would be you know tough for radium um but it's unclear as to like and this is always what happens you like get a beach head and then you're like okay well which other places do I want to go and like

basically which other you know symbiotic relationships do I want to crush and that's probably where pump is right now there's two interesting parallels from ethereum here where there's an interesting growth story of between Lio and a like Ste and a were very symbiotic with one another and they kind of fed into one another as the the core use case was looping and so steth was like the dominant collateral there it's good for a good for Lio there's another example of remember when axi was doing super well and it tried to launch its own decks which is the opposite right it's hey we've got a beach head there are a bunch of people coming to axi why am I paying so much money you know why am I leak so much value to this outside decks I'm just going to vertically

integrate create my own decks and I guess it depends on which way pump. fund wants to go here right they probably have the leverage in this relationship so it just depends on what they want to do it is an interesting thought experiment like when pump dot fun if they launch a token is that I mean it will generate more activity on Soul temporarily depending on how they incentivize things but like Soul right now is a bet on pump. fun from a fundamentals perspective like do you just want to buy a pump. fun and and I think it's like that argument never really applied to I mean maybe it applied to kind of Unis swap but like the there there were like five things that you would apply in

like the defi category for but like you would buy eth because it's proxy for onchain defi right so like it'll be interesting to see the extent to which a pumped out fund token is value creative or dilutive to Soul um because it'll certainly split a lot of the bid and it's like it's funny like if you look at you know the soul fees versus the goto fees like they're pretty much equal and then you look at the pump. fund fees and it's like those are kind of equal as well it's like a third a third a third if you added it all up um and I think you know pumped out fun like let's say there's a token you have to take a view on whether meme coining is durable for that to be a logical

investment and then I think Soul you kind of need to take a perspective of like um Is MeMe coining durable and is like Soul like kind of like a prototype money similar to eth it'll be interesting to see once the application start to generate High ftvs and um maybe Jupiter's already a case study of that happening a little bit other thing I would say is the bet on Soul would be that and jto to to an extent as well is that they the ecosystem can move past just having meme coins totally this this is what ethereum did as well which you know it obviously there's more things than defi now and and if you look at sort of like the burn metrics it's not just defi that is um

you know creating the the the burn at this point um you know base all the l2s but uh the ecosystem around salana is going to have to transition from pump only to pump and other things yeah I agree I think the I mean we' talked about on this pod a lot of times I I'm a little about meme coins in general the even if you look at the nft meta right that still lasted longer than people thought it was going to that was like a two-year Journey right to go all the way up and then all the way back down and generally like even like Wall Street looking at coinbase's business has been like these fees are going to compress and here we are 11 years later and the fees are still pretty high if you're a retail Trader on that platform

and they've been much stickier than everyone thought on the other hand there's so many there's such a high supply of meme coins and it's still pretty hard to attach like a great fundamental reason for why they're going to stick around so I don't know I'm very torn about these I I don't I don't have strong opinions two two things number one nfts lasted I would say a year I think meme coins meme coins have higher velocity because they're more liquid um so that's one thing orthogonal is apparently blobs been at their target for two days on eth so that's like starting to work and that's kind of an orthogonal Point third point on coinbase is dude this is the most volatile stock I've ever seen in my

entire life it's down 12% today like I mean it's also traded almost a billion dollars in volume like it's down it's down 12% this is my favorite part it's down 12% off of like lower than expected Q3 uh numbers but but as we're literally about to go into a crypto Bart no this is I all right let let's go through so coinbase did their earnings call yesterday which is always kind of fun to go through so if you're following Along on on video here they they break out they they had total transaction uh revenue of [Music]

572.247202 so overall net revenue was uh just north of 1.1 billion 1.128 um with a slightly positive net income and you know their metric that they like to talk about is adjusted iida in general and on the honest I listen to the earnings call I made it like halfway through the analyst questions but they were very focused on unsurprisingly regulatory stuff um I guess like a couple interesting things to call out is they talked a little bit about bass which Bas is actually put putting up way more numbers than I than I thought the the other interesting thing is they saw a huge jump in in terms of stablecoin pair trading so they have this they s uh coinbase has a little bit of an

incentive to they get a different percentage of the Rev share of usdc based on something I believe what it is is is custody usdc on the platform but what they want is people trading usdc and holding it on coinbase and so if you use coinbase you see you're getting like five something percent um to just hold your usdc on coinbase and they cite it it's a sales and marketing expense um which was slightly higher than expected so they're basically just paying you to do that they also don't really charge a lot of fees on trading stable coins and so what they're doing is it's just a trade of transaction Revenue into like the stable coin um line item and they view that is more durable they know Wall

Street wants to see it like that but they also there were some pretty crazy statistics about base here as well I think they called it out somewhere well I look for that the other big thing was they're announcing a billion doll um a billion dollar share repurchase program so I don't know if you guys saw that or if you guys have any thoughts on that but I thought that was interesting as well the uh the one thing I'll say on share repurchases is the only time when companies buy back their own shares is when they think that they're undervalued yep yeah yep I mean it just I mean they did have a big

Miss on earnings today or Revenue today that was what drove the pile Drive the shares like dude coinbase and levered Nvidia are down the same amount yeah I'm sure the people holding this are just like what the is going on the chart doesn't look terrible but it's just a the the thing that I will say I mean the comment that I was G to say about Point base is I still think that it remains to be the most misunderstood uh like stock on Wall Street people who are just like looking at this as if it's you know Revenue got like we exist in a cyclical industry you have to compare cycles and it we're not talking about quarterly Cycles we're talking about like fouryear cycles and

and that's that's the fundamental Miss I think here if you're looking at okay Q3 2023 that was pre the announcement of uh the Bitcoin ETF uh or the expectation of the Bitcoin ETF just because of the Genesis lawsuit happened in October like nothing was going on last year so we're up 100% on the top line but like we guided to something that we thought would be higher nobody expected that you know the election would put a a curtailing on trading activity but if you think about this in terms of four-year fiveyear Cycles it doesn't matter what happens right now when we're going into 2025 no the other thing too that I feel like analysts Miss on this is even just how how tied transaction volume is to just like sentiment like overall

sentiment in crypto and I really feel like as a basic rule of thumb sentiment has not been good this last quarter and you know you could probably just assume just by being in like the trenches and on crypto Twitter like all right I think you could use that as a pretty accurate gauge whether or not they're gonna miss or beat their transaction based Revenue Target um price beets price always and the reason why price has been dwindling is it's not because people are losing faith in crypto it's because people have been sitting on the sidelines since June knowing that we're going into one of the craziest election cycles that we've seen in in decades and nobody knows which end is up in terms of the polling the

trajectory you know who's who's running like all of this all of this stuff is happening in real time and so everybody at least that we talk to is just like we are sitting on our hands until November 6th and that's when we're going to get back into the market and so what that means is from from like a charting perspective from a volume perspective or from like a price action perspective everybody's like oh people are losing faith in crypto it's like no we had massive government selling in July and August to a low liquidity environment because nobody wants to be buying right now because they're waiting for the election to happen it's like a very simple equation of uh flows and and I think that that is like we've over rotated to like being negative and I

think that what also that means is that we will over rotate again to being positive completely greate they they mentioned on the earnings call a couple times it seems like they're focused on a couple of different areas one is their International and derivatives trading two is uh CB BTC which is still super early days for that product but they're very excited about it um and stable coin and payments and I just want to read you guys an excerpt here because I know I knew Bas was doing well I just didn't have these numbers off the top of my head in Q3 Bas our ethereum L2 solidified its position as the leader in onchain activity among l2s Bas is now the number one L2 in both transactions and tvl the number of transaction process on base grew 55% quarter over quarter in Q3 surpassing all other L2

networks and four times higher than ethereum over the last 30 days of the quarter and they kept the median fee per transaction at point or at one cent um which is pretty pretty crazy I like I knew that Bas was doing extremely well but I didn't realize they were that dominant amongst l2s which is super impressive the other thing that they're doing which is a long shot and who knows if it's actually going to pay off is so coinbase has a I believe it used to be coinbase Cloud now it's just their developer platform they announced something a little while ago they're making it very easy for you to come in and spin up your own AI bot which is very interest so what that tells me is they see a bunch of volume in the future in transactions coming from people spinning up AI Bots and I think they're

a little head on the trend of like it doesn't matter if it's a bot or a human activity is activity and they want people to spin those AI Bots up on Bas so not going to appear in next uh in the next earnings release or you probably wouldn't see that now but it's it's a pretty cool forward-looking bet for the future so they're doing well I think they're I think they're um they're they're doing a good job of trying to be ahead of the curve and this is I I would be curious to get both of your guys opinions on this because I was just having a debate about this with a friend this week but when you think about coinbase versus something like Robin Hood which which of those platforms do you see onboarding more normies kind of they they have roughly the same amount

of monthly active users so there's a funny discrepancy it's like coinbase has something like a 100 million funded accounts but they've got nine roughly nine million monthly active users Robin hoods is much lower it's like 26 million funded accounts but they have 11.5 million monthly active users so just us-based probably slightly probably slightly more users like the monthly active feels like the more important metric there but yeah I'd be curious how would you evaluate the I don't know the um approach or I think the maybe one way to think about it is um there's sort of like a spectrum I would say in terms of product and then there's a spectrum in terms of like

capabilities and I think if we were to think about like how where each one of these product each one of these companies spikes is like Robin Hood has the better product in that it's mobile it's integrated into uh all kinds of different other Financial equations like I got a notification I think we were talking about it at some point maybe last week I Got a notification from my Robin Hood app to like let me know that I could trade uh uh contracts for uh the election results like they have their own you know poly Market equivalent like they're doing things but it's a lot of different things that are not crypto specific and within the crypto ecosystem you can only do certain things which is like buy certain assets Buy sell certain assets whereas coin base is less in terms of product the the mobile

experience is not as good but what you do have is more capabilities with a coinbase wallet experience where you can actually go in and you know interact with defi let's say um all of that I think is positive but what you have also is the geographic overlay crypto right now frankly is not it's not very actively happening in the US all of the activity is overseas whether it's Asia Europe uh South America Etc that's where all the activity is happening and so that that puts coinbase at an advantage given the internationalization um so just like to push back on that a little bit so public.com their most traded in custody apps or assets are micro strategy

Bitcoin and eath Robin Hood most of their users are trading crypto like I think um it's a smaller but more committed set of people in the US but what you don't have is like that I'm putting five bucks into this from every random you know Taxi Driver Uber driver whatever right Asia it feels like it's more disperse and you do have that kind of law of large numbers working for you yep you mentioned you uh so the the other thing too is I think that coinbase I don't know if this is purely messaging to Wall Street but I I really believe it I think you can see it in terms of how they're allocating resources and what they're talking about they they're moving they don't want to be an only trans action based Revenue model they

actually want to build out a lot of the like this whole services and subscription bucket which to their credit they've done a phenomenal job of scaling over the last 18 months and you know there's a lot of internal focus on a staking business and stable coins and they're they're going to be much better positioned to win that type of Revenue and it wouldn't surprise me if it'll take a while maybe it's a decade or something like that but we might not be thinking of coinbase primarily as an exchange on sometime Horizon whereas I never I don't really see that for Robin Hood they they're great at they're great on product they're much more the web two product stuff they're crushing at Robin Hood more than coinbase but what they're adding is prediction markets it's all exchange transaction based Revenue so I think they've just got a slightly

different Revenue mix it's probably going to be permanent maybe just to close here um what do you guys think of this m Michael sailor 42 billion doll Bitcoin buy it's that is nuts I mean it's Babe Ruth I think of it like Babe Ruth walking out in a home plate and just lifting his Bat and pointing to the central center field that's that's what Michael sailor just did yesterday I me oh my God he's the goat he uh he's up eight billion that that he already round tripped once but now he's back up again it's it's uh there will be stories written about him kind of either way but I don't know where he gets 42 billion I would say that has like a probably 2% chance of

happening no I mean look at what happens every time they go out to raise another billion or two or three it fills within 24 hours and like basically 0% interest like he's able to get like he it's it's also over three years so let's say he's going to do like 13 billion dollars a year uh and if it's assumed to be evenly spread but imagine bitcoin's ripping and I don't know if you guys have also been following the ETF flows over the last week like we're talking about like close to Billion Dollar Days right now and what micro strategy provides is a very clean way of getting leverage on that Bitcoin and so I would I would be

willing to bet that there's just ample demand especially as we're going into 2025 they they also rolled out a 2X levered micro strategy product yesterday which is insane I mean let's uh I think we can end it there because Michael you gotta hop to the Discord and I gotta hop to call with h with Rune um fellas this was this was a good one covering by the way these finally stopped selling and it looks like we're uh we're on a good path so more updates soon go baby all right all right fellas this is a fun one let you go cheers see [Music]