Zapper AMA with Founder Seb Audet and DeFi Dad

Transcript

if you are looking for a mobile wallet to hold and access your crypto you need to go to argent.xyz and download their smart contract wallet app right onto your android or ios device arjun is the most secure way to hold money on your device while still being able to access defy services that we all know and love on ethereum through arjun you have one tap access to the beloved d5 apps like compound uniswap ave and you can even invest directly into some yield generating assets right from your argent wallet crucial to maintaining security over your assets is arjun's guardian service which allows you to use a friend to make sure that you can always restore access to your funds in case you were to

ever lose your phone or for your device to break you can also use a local hardware wallet to ensure that you can always restore access to your funds yourself one of argent's newest features is their ability to route trades through 10 decentralized exchanges including unit swapping kyber to make sure that you are always getting the best trade on your assets similarly pushing the fold on what we can do in ethereum and d5 argent has replicated some of the legacy financial services that you would expect from your bank but put it directly into the hands of the user such as send limits and whitelisted accounts ensuring that if anyone were to be able to access your funds in your argent wallet they could only send up to a certain amount and only be able to send them to

approved addresses which is creating one of the most safe environments to hold your assets in which is why people have put millions and millions of dollars into the argent wallet that they use on their device in order to see the argent wall in action go to argent dot link bank lists and download the argent wallet on ios or android today we're also brought to you by monolith monolith is your cool new defy account your d5 savings account your d5 checking account except the cool thing about the monolith defy account is that it gets software updates right you actually get to increase the usefulness of this over time so here are some of the features monolith is a smart contract wallet with a lot of the features that you would

expect if you've come to know defy and what it is you can you can add money to it you can put that money to work uh in compound and accessing yield uh but you can all and you can also swap through uniswap what was cool with monolith is that they will send you a very sexy monolith visa card that connects to your smart monolith smart contract wallet on ethereum so it's a really awesome tool to live a bankless life with a a savings account that gets software updates so this is something that you're never going to find out in the real world but you can still do real world things with you know real money and like buy your groceries so that's just fantastic coming soon to monolith actually already here to monolith is now you can buy die and get it sent to your wallet

directly right so it's also being an on-ramp so you don't have to go through your centralized exchange like coinbase or gemini or wherever you can just go straight from your bank account right into your monolith checking account smart contract wallet so check them out at monolith.xyz hello bankless nation welcome to another community ask me anything this is an ama this is your opportunity to ask some of the most interesting projects some of the most interesting people in crypto questions that you have always wanted answered so to ask a question type into youtube if you are a bankless member you can type into the inner circle discord and we will prioritize those things

david and i throughout this conversation will do our best to field your questions to our two guests today and with that i want to introduce our guest today this is part of the team at zapper so zapper is a defy interface it is kind of a bankless bank interface and you can do tons of things with it it's a fantastic tool we recommend it all the time i have seb audette who is the founder of zapper and i have travis blaine but you probably know him as d5 dad i just call him dad we just said dave because of dad i'm not quite comfortable with that yet but i defy dad's okay with me and he is the ceo of zapper um huge contributor to the

defy space as well uh gentlemen how are you doing today welcome thank you thank you ryan that was a pretty good intro um yeah we're doing pretty good awesome yeah thanks for having us guys yeah ryan just makes everything sound exciting like we were hitting you're talking a few minutes and and then like the cameras turn on it's like hey everybody welcome to the train my kids say i have a podcast voice and it's totally different so whatever um all right let's start with this question so we're gonna field some questions for the community but i think we just want to get um a base so there are people out there that uh haven't used zapper yet believe it or

not even people the bankless community may have not used zapper yet gentlemen what does zapper do yeah so um zapper helps you uh understand your portfolio first so say you do a ton of different investments in defy you know you're playing with a bunch of different protocols you know zapper helps you bring all that information and put it in one interface um so that's the first thing then the second part is actually you know being able to manage your funds um so we help people go into unit swap pools balancer pools and reduce the friction around um doing those transactions so instead of

doing you know a couple of transactions to enter a uniform pull you could do it you know with one transaction on zapper which we call a zap it's brilliant like using zap as a verb which means you get to like do something really cool in d5 you zap into into something and i i guess travis i would love your perspective on this too um like so what what is the the end game for for zapper what are you guys trying to do is this like a an interface uh for all things defy all the money verbs as we call them on bank list yeah yeah that's exactly what it is i i think the like the high level like mission is to to make d5 easy for everyone and so

by the way too i don't know if we're able to share screens like i feel like yes we are there a screen if anyone's ever not seen it but yeah the goal is to allow you to track your d5 portfolio and then to be able to have the same access uh as others who might be more sophisticated in defy and be able to uh navigate all the different platforms and all the different strategies by creating a zap we in many cases consolidate could be like three to seven transactions into one or two and so it saves them time it saves them money saves them effort but i think like more than anything it's uh you know it's like really doing what a

lot of fintech has done where you know you take away all of the friction points robin hood's incredible because you can go on and you can trade uh you know with uh nothing to stop you from putting in as much money as you want into whatever stocks and there's no fees and i think similarly we're we're just trying to enable that that sort of access through d5 and important to note uh you guys never take custody of assets right so it's basically a bring your own wallet bring your own private keys plug it in and you get this entire interface you could plug into metamask you can plug in your your ledger account wallet connect whatever you're using right yeah exactly we don't uh cassidy any user's funds we're just this you know

way to plug into defy so i've got my screen up here is this can you see yep want to uh earn yield or do some yield farming and then you can see here even a breakdown of different platforms that i would have money in here so like i have uh some money some stable coins in barn bridge that's uh earning me bond and so that three thousand dollars of value

here is staked there the other side of the coin though is uh to be able to use a zap and so this is where i could look for a liquidity pool let's say with uh let's say usdc i've got the one here for uniswap and i can just add liquidity by using one of the tokens that's actually in the pool like usdc or ether but i can also use the most liquid stable coins and tokens in d5 like die tether link wrapped bitcoin and so at the end of the day what's happening here is if i were to go in with let's say tether uh zapper will swap out my tether it'll

split at 50 50 into usdc and ether and so this is uh this is a lot of manual work that all of us had gotten used to over the last few years that's been consolidated now into an automated money software and then the last piece of the puzzle is just uh the fact that we offer a dex aggregator this is what matcha is uh by xerox that dex aggregator their api is what powers this uh exchange so if you like matcha if you feel like you're getting the best rates and the least amount of slippage there you can actually trade within zapper now using the power of of the 0x api so dad and that and seb

we previous zapper is a previous sponsor of the bankless podcast so i guess full disclosure there but uh the the way that i described it in in the ad read was like you know the 2017 uh uh bull market was like characterized by like pulling out your block folio and just like refreshing it like all day like all day every single day uh and you know that that was fun times sorry that changed i i've been doing that for three years now yeah but now now i just go to zapper and just hit refresh refresh refresh and like the difference between like blockfolio and zapper is that zapper you load up your wallets and with blockfolio you have to like manually input your your your trades your assets and and especially with things like rebasing tokens like

that doesn't even work in blockfolio these days and so zapper it's it's like it's going directly to the source of what the data is and you can the best part about it is like you can have multiple wallets right and so i think this this next bull market is going to be characterized by just like refreshing zapper over and over and over again but that's just like only one half of the product the other half of the product is what you were just explaining dad where you're you're saying you can you can uh access defy things in a more efficient route or when you put those two pieces of zapper together is that the whole product or is there other stuff as well um so like we see zapper there's two aspects

right there's the ui aspect so there's there's there there's the zapper.fi you know the interface that everyone sees but the other side of the product that isn't as well known is you know what's powering all these possibilities through those transactions so it's the ux part right um and that's a part of the pro product that you know we're working to gear towards more um developer audience uh so basically could you know help us uh build out new apps um so yeah i mean right now the more well known of the product is you know the zapper dot if i that everyone sees but there's a also another part you know which is in our docs where you know

people could actually play with zaps and build out new variations of them so cool it's almost like a a netscape you know a netscape for seeing and being able to do something with all of the money legos that are being built out on on d5 right there so like that's an early internet analogy um i also want to talk about another kind of early internet analogy which is how um you guys built zapper like what's the story there because right so you you think about if somebody wants to start a fintech company on traditional banking on the traditional banking stack it is really damn hard right like all of these apis you have to

plug into all of these kind of regulatory requirements all of these relationships you have to have i think that's different when you're building on ethereum when you're building on d5 because correct me if i'm wrong you guys started as a hackathon project right can you tell us the story of how zapper was actually built yeah absolutely so zapper's story is kind of like a interesting one where it came from two you know small side projects that got together so the first part was defy zap which was really the transactional aspect so you would go on the website and be able to enter a pool with one input the

other side was defy snap which was this pretty much what you see on zapper today when you land on the the front page is being able to just track all your assets so i came from the defy snapside so perhaps i could tell a bit more of you know that that side of the story um so yeah during uh fall that's where i i really started to you know look into defy do a little bit of investments here and there um and you know at one point it was just really hard to track my my own assets assets so yeah i had this crazy spreadsheet going and it was becoming really hard to maintain um

at one point it was almost like okay well building a web app that would do this would be easier to just maintain my spreadsheet um so yeah that's where i started defy snap and originally it was just a very small use case it was just uh synthetics and uniswap because those were the two projects i was using the most so it was just something i built for myself and then you know just published a link on the the synthetics discord in january and from there it really you know just had this this crazy snowball effect wait said that was that january of this year january 2020 yeah wow okay i didn't realize it was it was it was that new wow no no yeah it's it's crazy like i mean last year this day i was you know i had another job uh working at shake pay in

canada so yeah it's crazy how fast all this happened and you know i think the you know in may 1st we merged so that was the official day that zapper was founded and it was kind of like being at the right place at the right time because we never saw yield farming you know exploding like you know i guess nobody really saw it and zapper was in a perfect uh like place in the market to leverage that because we helped people go into the pools and stake those assets so we were just like the yield for a farmer's product and from there that's kind of like where we got all this this crazy traction less than a year small team

built it didn't need to ask anyone's permission and it's already as powerful as it is now i think that's that's the story here seb i think this is a perfect time to ask uh the first community question um i'm gonna ask this um this is from uh an anonymous source it's not from david eric so let's talk about uh d5 zap plus defy snap so seb you were a main coder there and the noter was the other coder who is the better coder between you guys is that better or is noter better oh my uh well so nodar doesn't code he codes a bit okay in the defines upside there's nodar and suhail suhel is a magician with smart contracts uh so suhail's definitely better than me

on the smart contracts nodar is more like this you know financial engineer he has these really good ideas around you know building these new zaps um and i'm more of like the the front end so i like i can't say who's the the best coder per se we all have kind of our own our own uh expertise and you definitely have one of the best educators in the space steve dad um that you know fantastic pick up d5 dad when did you join the team gosh i only joined i think it was what end of august or mid-august so i i had been using zapper forever like like all of us and by forever i mean for six months or whatever [Laughter] defy zaps back in november uh when nodar

and sue hale had launched around it was like november 2019 and that was i mean at that point we were all so excited because d5 was gaining traction and we were headed towards a billion in total value locked and then along comes this idea of zaps which to me was like whoa okay so i no longer have to explain all these steps for one of my friends to get into a liquidity pool i can just send them a link and just say just follow this and deposit your money and it'll do all the the hard stuff for you splitting your tokens and creating the the liquidity provision uh so then when when they combined forces being able to track your portfolio plus zaps it was like all right now this is

like becoming like a hub for um both newbies and sophisticated users and then yeah i mean i i'm i feel just really lucky like i i was you guys know i was working at consensus i mostly focused on the ethereal summit and uh you know i was spending all of my time creating uh tutorials and trying to educate on defy so it made a lot of sense to work on a platform that is like an on-ramp for defy users so yeah been been since august and just uh it's it's been really really fun i mean my i have a tough time shutting off from work right now and for for all those people that have watched my uh ether triple point asset

talk at ethereal you can thank defy dad for that one uh he's the one that got me up on that stage so it's the tip of the hat for that what's interesting david go back to ethereal in tel aviv in 2019 so this was in the fall it was i think september and we had a stage dedicated to d5 we call it the stage now granted d5 already had like a pretty awesome community like you know maybe like a few thousand that were paying close attention a few hundred that were really like hyper involved and man i had so much pushback from so many people like why are you dedicating all this time to this topic and what's this defy thing your talk on ether as a triple triple

point asset we had a bunch of uh folks like pull together was really new as well and kyber network had was very well established um actually also like you know our our uh brothers from from zerion they were there as well talking about um all the cool stuff they do tracking d5 portfolios so it was um you know it was only a year ago but it's nuts how so much of this now has become accepted truth to all of us that defy is here for the long run and that 15 billion in total does nothing compared to where we're going yeah that that's where i met leighton from pull together and that's where that's where i met tom from from

delphi and so like that was the hot stage so like dad like you've you've been leading the charge with making sure that defy is in everyone's brains yeah yeah so so much fun so i mean we've had a great year it's been it's been a really exciting year i do want to go back to uh what said was talking about with uh so so there's the the world of um building smart contracts right but but nodar is the financial engineer and that's almost like a coder in of the in of themselves in the defy world like you need you can't just have somebody who's good at solidity you have to instruct them okay what are we going to do with all of this like financial like all these financial like money legos you need an engine literally an engineer to put all the legos together and construct

them in a particular way and what i see going on in the in the background of zapper is that you have uh these financial engineers who i guess is known are and i'm sure there's others as well who are learning how to construct these money legos into like actual structures that you turn into products on zapper uh seb can you talk about like the the side of financial engineering and how important that is to zapper yeah i mean it's a super important side because you know when you know building a smart contract like you could be like a smart contract ninja and know all the solidity you know tricks but if you're missing all the financial context then you can't really you know build a

useful you know smart contract within the application of defy so you know there's a whole side of you know building the smart contract which is the whole you know financial context and that's definitely something that's very hard to do as you know a lot of people like a lot of the you know exploits or you know hacks we've seen they're not all you know smart contract bugs a lot of them are smart contracts that didn't you know uh think of all the economic context that was you know going around that smart contract which is super important to to keep in mind when when building so yeah that's a side that we're definitely very focused on um because

you like you can't just focus strictly on the code itself and not think of all these different moving parts um i think you know i've read a lot about i think kane or another synthetics team was talking about how their you know process for developing new smart contracts changed as you know more synthetic pieces got um not swallowed necessarily but you know plugged into other protocols so that's a whole new side of things that you have to factor in got a question uh that i want to throw in that is uh fairly well upvoted in discord and um on youtube from corpy so do you guys plan to have a token and if they answer that question why is

the answer yes well let's assume that you know there's some optionality here uh if the answer is yes what would the token be used for is the question yeah so i mean that's always a tricky question to answer um like we kind of repositioned that whole question into thinking what do we see you know zapper being long term and we see zapper as being this community owned project and the way we kind of tackle it is it you know we don't see zapper well the core team being able to build you know all the zaps at all the new protocol integrations like we're seeing defy explode um and you know it's hard for us to be able to track everything and add

things we also don't want to be in a position where we kind of you know decide which protocol to add like we don't want to be some sort of you know defy referee either um so moving forward you know we're trying to figure out what the best model is uh to achieve that long-term vision and you know if a token is the way we go there then yeah that's something we'll look into to doing for sure let's throw in another reader question here so this is a question about um your plans to expand beyond eath to other blockchains any thoughts on that so if you can answer that yeah yeah where does that fit into the product

roadmap it's definitely something we for sure but but uh you know maybe also include um layer two in that i i suppose that's part of an offshoot but it is in a way it's another kind of blockchain yeah i think like right now we're definitely focused on ethereum that's where we believe most of the d5 activity will come from but we're also like if we see a lot of activity going on other chains you know we definitely want to put aside our own beliefs in d5 and focus on our users like what like we basically want to help users participate and decentralize finance and you know if d5 is going to be a multi-chain thing then we'll definitely

want to support people across chains so far we don't see that much you know not necessarily traction but users you know asking us to integrate other chains but that's something we're you know always keeping in mind is there is there anything of those chains like anything kind of on your radar a little bit like maybe in the cosmos ecosystem or in the polka dot ecosystem that you're not like you haven't put to the to the front but you're just monitoring and seeing how they how they emerge any interesting projects or ecosystems that you think are out there yeah well i mean polka dot there's a few side chains that are at parachain sorry that are looking

to integrate the evm so it'd be really interfaceable with ethereum which i find super interesting so when that is actually launched we could see some some traction there um other projects i mean we do see um traction from binance smart chain we haven't really researched on it we don't have you know any opinion so far on on that but we do see some d fire projects specifically in asia tackling that market um so it's definitely worth worth it for us to you know take a look and see see if there's possibilities there as well can i ask you about like so it's something i've uh struggled with neither of you guys can answer here it's like um

at what point at at what point does the base chain get to the point where we can no longer really call it d5 right so if coinbase had an evm on a coinbase like maintained ledger right and anyone could develop on it maybe you don't require coinbase's permission is that defy is the binance chain defy if it has hand selected validators from binance is polka dot defy if it has governance in the hands of a small set of individuals it's something that i

personally like struggle with the definition of d5 which is why i think dave and i have talked about before um we like the term open finance a little bit better because it sort of embraces all of them and sometimes when we and i like we go with the meme d5 right d5 d5 of course but it's not always decentralized how do you guys think about that i can chime in here i i recognize that defy has become somewhat of a marketing term but when i when i try to classify like what is d5 i think about am i 100 in control of my funds uh ideally there should not be an admin key

that can put my funds at risk but then what i just said i've clearly been forgiving with projects that are in the spectrum of moving towards being truly decentralized and getting rid of some of those admin keys um gosh what else there i i think about uh of course there being no middlemen just the usual stuff like only interacting with smart contracts and it's hard to ignore the fact that there's just all the momentum is on ethereum right now but i think we as a team have been uh we definitely have a philosophy on the team of trying to be open to new ideas and curious about what's being built on other chains and i i think you

guys have called them out already we have uh we've definitely been thinking and watching i guess like a polka dot cosmos uh binance smart chain i think binance smart chain comes up the most from you know we have a lot of zapper users in china and other parts of asia so we really try to listen to them we do every friday we do like an open forum and folks can just ask defy questions or give us feedback so that's some of the feedback we've gotten i will say this uh the probably the lowest hanging fruit for us to integrate in another chain is bitcoin we could show the balance of bitcoin in in a zapper portfolio hopefully in the future we've actually

gotten a lot of good feedback from our community saying yes i would love to see bitcoin just whatever i've got in a wallet um because frankly you can't do anything else with bitcoin you can just see it in that wallet uh if it's on the bitcoin blockchain so that would be really um i think interesting and i i'm hoping that that's something that we can implement sooner versus i think the the more challenging endeavor of of incorporating other smart contract blocks and that would be uh native bitcoin on the bitcoin blockchain rather than something like a wrapped btc that's right that's that's what we're talking about i even i don't think that we're

looking at this now but like i've definitely thought before you know i mean maybe in the future um for folks that are using like a centralized finance uh service you know something like a block fi if they've got let's say bitcoin there like maybe that's something we'll do but like just um i think like the the key takeaway here is there is so much to support right now justin defy it's so overwhelming and i i think i have a fresh perspective as someone also who's not a developer i like look at what seb and the team does the team is composed of uh seven engineers and then two of us are not engineers and i mean it's just overwhelming i don't know when seb or

the other sleep it feels like always having to uh support a new yield farming pool a new token um so yeah it's it's uh it's it's definitely exciting times and ryan the way that you presented this question is like well is polka dot d5 is is like binance chain d5 well also we have like that same question natively on ethereum right like our nfts defy because like who makes who makes the legitimacy of an nft right realty tokenized real estate on ethereum is that defy like you can use it as collateral but the the house is like secured by a company right so there's this big spectrum of things that have questions about how do we even answer

this question how do we even ask the question to begin with and when the question turns to like okay if it's the assumptions that i'm making that if if it's close to d5 and the power and because of the power of ethereum ethereum can figure out how to latch on to it right like ethereum the way that anthony cesano keeps on presenting ethereum is as this like economic nexus right and and zapper is looking at the heart of that nexus and kind of growing out from there it's like okay here's a token that everyone uses here's an app that everyone uses let's integrate that and because of the power of ethereum has the ability to like grow its arms grow its tentacles into every single other chain via bridges i think it's reasonable to like

assume that at some point in the future it's going to be able to like you can query ethereum to get a bitcoin balance on the bitcoin blockchain right and so you can actually go through ethereum to binance chain to the coinbase roll-up to you know insert your bridge here and you can use ethereum as that economics hub to reach out to other blockchains and query data and create a zap around other blockchains that integrate with other blockchains as ethereum becomes able to integrate with other blockchains because what zapper really needs is data about other chains and what ethereum needs is data about other chains and so if these teams that are working on building out these bridges do their job correctly to me it seems to be the zapper could just

follow in the the bridges that are built uh i mean i'm not very technical but but seb does that resonate with you does that sound about right yeah i mean it does in a sense that that's kind of like you know what kind of you know is happening with zapper where it started from a few you know tokens and then you know they got wrapped and then they're put in the pool and then that pool is put somewhere else and you know it's just this you know it's just spreading it's growing out from there right exactly exactly i think you guys are gonna be quite busy with layer two as well when that that comes up on ethereum all right i wanna get to another uh youtube question that goes off a little bit of what you're saying and the the comment is first i love zapper but only a tiny

fraction of my assets are visible on there wish there was a way to add my own assets and farms maybe there is and i just don't know so i think that goes to what you were saying earlier defy dad is like you guys are just trying to keep up with everything that's going on right and add features for all of the you know the money lagers that are going that are happening but there's going to be some that you haven't quite got to yet and is there any customization ability for users coming down the pike how do you think about that um use case yeah we've uh we're actually starting to implement some you know a process where you know users will be able to add their own tokens um as for like farms it's always a bit

tricky because um you know we don't want to add stuff that could potentially be um dangerous or not vetted like we've seen so many you know rug pulls um and you know we're always very careful with you know the things we add support for on zapper except like something like sushi when it came out what like did you add it right away or did you not so we added the ability to like view your balances um but transacting like we didn't add it yet um so that's kind of like we had you know there's two sides one is just being able to view their balance so on that side we're much less you know strict on whatever we add on the transaction side

like we don't want people you know putting money into something that might be you know rug pulled in the future so we're very careful you know with with what we had uh like for yield farming um you know most of the contracts were all the same you know there were reused smart contracts so a lot of these you know farms was they were safe uh to add because we knew you know those smart contracts and you know they were um very uh tested a lot of money came through them so yeah we we felt safe to add those so we got another question from from callum from the youtube thanks callum for the question uh what are your thoughts on the infuria outage and how did this affect zapper any thoughts on

solutions to these kinds of issues yeah we did have a bit of downtime because of the inferior outage um but we uh right now we have a strategy where we use you know multiple um node as a service providers so the first is you know infira and then we've been using as a fallback pocket which is a decentralized node infrastructure protocol and in the future we see you know much more of that you know being brought forward as a solution now the thing is like um these decentralized protocols um aren't at the point where it's say as fast or reliable as an infira

uh like from zapper's time our goal is to have you know balances load as fast as possible so that always you know factors in the the decision to choose the right infrastructure so right now yeah our strategy is you know we have some fallbacks to different nodes but long term we do want to align with more of a decentralized um you know node infrastructure yeah so i guess a follow up on that um a lot of there's been a lot of uh i guess flood out there about d5 being centralized on infuria um what's what's your take on that in general are there many node providers out there that like folks like your team

can use or is it a legitimate problem i think it used to be much more of a problem but right now i think you know there's a lot of options out there you know there's infiera there's alchemy there's quick node it's also much easier to run your your own node um and there's more decentralized projects you know popping and you know uh potentially this you know inferior outage will just create more market pressure into creating these decentralized products so i really don't see it as big of a problem as it used to it's definitely like it is you know something we have to to look into because yeah a lot of you know

products went down during the inferior outage um but yeah hopefully it does create this this market pressure so with it go ahead dad all right guys oh just seeing oh there's always room for improvement and uh you know i think that was a a bit of a scary thing yesterday i actually fortunately wasn't awake i like woke up and it had already been resolved but i think that goes back to um what's the term that i i've heard you guys use it on your podcast like anti-fragile anticipation yeah agility yeah and so like anything that doesn't kill us makes us stronger and i i um i do feel like that was yet another thing that is um not something to like

brush under the rug but also at the same time like we're still here everything yeah and i guess for folks that um don't know about it just real quick right so infuria provides a lot of um like node services ethereum node services to applications but also wallets right and they are a consensus project um famously an attack vector from bitcoiners who are like oh ethereans don't run their own nodes then that's bad blah blah blah right right um and uh metamask runs on it and they had an outage because they were using a old version of a an ethereum client guest essentially how long was that outage just a couple of hours and it sort of sent d5 into some tumult yesterday so

anyway that's the dldr on that that also too like those criticisms normally come from people who uh push you to uh put your crypto on kraken block by oh yes critical of the of of all the experimentation and yet um you know there's just so many folks that are so reliant upon that centralized uh exchange infrastructure and i i just i i just don't get it you know we should all be we should all be pushing for these new innovations and thank god for the ethereum community continually uh pushing the envelope on this so we have another question i want to ask questions about ethereum staking in phase zero but first i want to get to

this question for from youtube uh is another idea totally d gen perhaps but would you allow devs to create strategies as zaps perhaps you can have a list of zapper a list which zapper the zappers team deems as safe and which ones are like wild and that kind of makes me think of how like the dune analytics boards have like community generated boards that you can go and check out and that's a great way to just like put the the ball in the communities court and saying like here here's a doing analytics board that i use maybe you kind of find it useful too maybe that's something that you guys are thinking about like here's a zap that i use and maybe you can also use it as well oh yeah that's such a cool idea and we're we're aligned with trying to like

make it awesome easier for folks to build zaps and and then in in some way or another i guess you could like maybe rank them like you were saying but and by the way have you guys ever used that um program if if this then that it kind of reminds me of that idea right like where you have these modules you just kind of stream together go headset no yeah that's that's like a great idea and something we're really you know looking into into building is like these apps have a bunch of you know different blocks that you know are consistent across all our zaps and people could just use pick and choose from those and you know create a news app and then essentially the community could

create all the you know community generated zaps and rank them there could be like a safety metric or you could see the volume that went through so yeah that's that that's definitely something we're uh looking into okay so with phase zero and the beacon chain uh up and running in the deposit contract here uh is there anything coming out of the zapper camp to kind of help facilitate this so so far there's uh there aren't any plans um we're still our our roadmap is filled with new protocol integrations you know you know these low-hanging fruits

but um i mean if it's something that's heavily requested by users we'll definitely you know look in into it that's kind of our roadmap basically changes all the time you know sometimes i don't even know what i'm going to work on the next week or even like just tomorrow right something can happen maybe okay let's add this one then so yeah we always keep a pulse on you know what our users are asking i think that's a week ago when whenever the deposit contract launched i think someone on the team was looking into like how could we potentially in the future show like let's say you you deposit into that uh the beacon chain uh contract the the uh the talk was

could we show that and support that so i i think uh as seb was saying like we're normally just reacting as quickly as possible but this seems like a pretty big deal i mean i i would anticipate the what the first deadline is december 1st and then the other one's the 24th of december so um yeah if if folks are interested or just want to like voice their support of that which i'm sure there's like unending support for this uh you can hop into our discord group uh if you just go to zapper.phi there's a link to go there uh also too don't be afraid to i'm gonna regret this don't be afraid to dm me on twitter or discourse we always pass that along and just to clarify you can see your

staked balances in the the staking contract nice what else i didn't know that either see yeah so there's so many things going on you know yeah we have that okay good job team is there anything about like the e2 road map that you guys are thinking about and like that's impacting the development of zapper like how does how does eth2 impact what you guys are doing at zapper yeah that's such a good question and honestly i have uh like i don't have you know any like immediate ideas about how we'll we'll do it there's so many you know there's a lot of you know uh it's very nebulous and i think a lot of doves um

and uh if as we move more towards that we'll you know definitely look into how you know zapper interfaces with with eth2 so this is a question from uh jag tapper who is asking what the long term game plan a road map is for zapper uh it says that zapping is super convenient but i'm sure you've got more ideas in mind i feel like we've been talking about a lot of those ideas so like take that question and also reframe it a little bit we've been talking about um zapper as almost like a netscape right um to all of these money legos and there was this this moment in the early internet people called the netscape moment right where netscape came out and people used it and they saw wow there's

this entirely new digital world that's opening before us and netscape was sort of the the the browser into that um when do you think like is defy going to ever have its its netscape moment and if it does how how is zapper going to be involved what does it what's it going to require to take defy mainstream hey guys by the way i've got to hop over to yield tv i just wanted to quickly say thank you seb's going to keep going here and seb's the person you need to talk with more he's got all the answers but just thank you so much this was um really fun and i always appreciate just what you guys are doing at bankless it's it's uh the lord's work in d5 so

thanks if i die i'll catch you guys see you later thanks for being here dad yeah uh ryan that's such an interesting question because like it's it's hard to say like if d5 is gonna have a netscape moment like this oh my god like this is this is amazing like what we've seen so far is you know there's these moments in defy where you know like the yield farming craze that was like a huge moment for d5 where a lot of people came in and you know obviously some left but a lot of them stayed and you know what you know will that next big thing for d5 be will it be like this this netscape type moment um i

i talk a lot about the dfi to my friends and see you know how how deep i can like tap into the market which is you know exterior to crypto because if you just look at defy right it's still you know digging within the crypto market it's i don't see often people you know completely out of context of crypto hopping directly into d5 it's all crypto native still right exactly exactly so like do you refer as that netscape moment where you know it goes outside of the crypto native space yeah a bit more i think that's the idea that there's this one moment where the world just becomes captured by defy and crypto and floods in yeah i

hm man that's that's such a good question like i think we still have ways to go to have uh non-crypto people like i think crypto still needs to be more um uh perhaps like just in the back of people's minds um like i think the current economic situation has brought a lot of that um but like uh i kind of lost my train of thought there but yeah i mean it's getting to the point though with zapper that normies can use this stuff right so like are your friends able your non-crypto friends are they able to use zapper but you're saying like they just don't have the use cases that would just draw them into it at this point in time

um but or is the ux still a little too difficult yeah i think it's a lot on like the information site like everyone you know can click around the buttons on zapper but like if the information makes absolutely no sense of them you know they're not going to go through there's a lot of like context to bring and you know a lot of financial education because you look at a lot of people using defy a lot of them have a good background or some sort of background in finance um but as the files make it being easier and easier to use you know more of this is being abstracted away and like there's kind of i see it in two ways like one is you know will defy just uh reduce the information information

symmetry and the uh symmetry and opportunity and you know more people will use it or will a lot of d5 just be completely abstracted away uh kind of you know more like a really easy to use banking app you know where you put money and then it earns yield for you so it's going to be interesting you know what ways it's going to play in like at zapper our thesis was is always like we're not focusing on the market outside of zapper like we see um you know defy as this circle that keeps expanding and all the where we want to be is at the edges because that's where we you know we acquire new users and new customers and we're focused on you know that

ever expanding um you know circle and looking to add features just at the edges of that circle and eventually we see that you know blowing into you know a much more you know mainstream audience reminds me a lot of our conversation with andre from uh from wiring protocol and how he said like i don't have a long-term plan i'm just building the next great feature and that's going to keep me busy and as long as i'm doing that we're making progress so it sounds similar maybe we're all in that camp well how can you have a long-term plan in defy in crypto right like we no one saw yield farming coming and there's going to be something new in two months and no one's going to see that that coming either it just feels like that that wallace and gromit gif were where

uh i think gromit is the on the train and you're just throwing the tracks in front of him right right yeah as you zoom forward yeah that's definitely a day at the office at zapper well i mean being able to to be nimble and move quickly is really really advantageous and that's definitely what we see coming out of the zapper camp uh seb are you guys hiring how can people help lay the tracks for zapper yeah i mean we're always open to uh get new people on board that you know believe in d5 and our vision of zaprev making define easy to use so yeah i mean we always have positions open whatever the position like we we kind of have the philosophy where you come into zapper and you create your own

role um and um yeah very open very cool and so last question just to wrap this up how can the bankless nation help zapper like what what can zapper do for the bankless nation and what can the bankless nation do for zapper yeah i mean happy to get any type of feedback if there's things that zapper is missing or types of functionalities uh happy to get any feedback you can you know hop in our discord uh we're pretty active there um and you know we uh we have a really fast development cycle so happy to to build anything that the bankless nation uh requests all right cool zeb thank you for being here and also thanks to d5 dad who had

to hop off uh so yeah guys check them out zapper.phi load up your wallets see what it shows you i always like to tell the story of like when i loaded up my zapper wallet i found like 25 of liquidity and unit swap that i forgot that i had uh been supplying and so i was like oh it's nice i found some found some money in a pocket that i didn't know i had um so that's always always a fun time so seb thanks thanks for being here yeah thank you very much was great thank you david thank you ryan appreciate it take care all right bye guys bye