Worldcoin and the case for proof of humanity

Transcript

gmgm welcome to web3 Academy your one trusted source to capitalize on the next big phase of the internet don't get caught in the hype cycle I'm Jaybird joined by my co-host Kyle reedhead and we believe that a proof of humanity protocol is going to change the world that's why we're carving a path for doers to confidently build and invest in web3 proof of humanity is a really really really big deal and what world coin specifically is trying to do is a massive Endeavor will it succeed I have absolutely no idea but what they're trying to do is actually really really big and the tech that they're using is so interesting we're going to be talking

CK Roll-Ups optimism they're integrating and using like uniswap they've got this orb it's about AI Biometrics like everything that you've been hearing about tech in the last few years I feel like World coin is a piled all into one and a lot of people are scared of that a lot of people think it's a Scion but it's all crap and it's a scam but you know what they actually got some real [ __ ] going on here and I'm kind of excited about it so we're gonna dive fully into this I don't know about you Jay but I'm kind of bullish I'm definitely bullish I mean if you're not talking about proof of humanity you need to everybody needs to be talking about this this is the biggest problem our world is facing right now I believe every day it becomes a bigger problem like exponentially right now so that's

the biggest problem our internet is facing maybe I don't know about our world true true I would say hunger and like you know what I mean yeah like it could be other things that maybe I'm within my uh my life in my legs Academy yeah I just wanted to make sure that we care about more than just that yeah yeah you make a great point you make a great point I am very bullish on worldcoin as well because unlike so many other projects that are like they launch a token and all of a sudden everybody Apes in and is talking about them worldcoin has been building for years in the background and we have not been talking about them and there's a lot of as you said very powerful Tech that they have

built which we're gonna dive into all of that so [ __ ] it up everybody this is an absolute must listen episode yeah wow I'm stoked let's take a minute to hear from our sponsors and then let's dive in the future of social media is here and that future lives in web 3 on top of lens protocol web 2 social platforms are broken and right for disruption you see the epicenter of social media is the creator years and yet they are the most neglected web 2 platforms like Facebook Tick Tock and Instagram are all essentially robbing creators of their worth creators are a new type of entrepreneur forming new types of businesses yet with web 2 platforms creators don't own their content to the profiles and that's their product and business instead they are tied to the platforms they choose to create on well

just like how crypto is freeing us from Banks web3 is freeing us from these centralized platforms on lens protocol creators own their content own their profile and even their social graphing followers in the form of nfts this allows you to move freely from one social application to another with your content profile and followers moving along with you lens protocol enables self-sovereignty for your social graph and interoperability across the internet at web3 Academy we believe this is the future of Social and that's why we've partner with lens to ensure that the path of social media is heading in the right direction visit lens.xyz to learn more today what if I told you that industry Pioneers from Flagship web 3 Brands such as consensus polygon binance Unstoppable

domains Ledger and uniswap will all meet up in one place this summer you don't want to miss this I'm talking about the Epic web 3 conference taking place in beautiful Lisbon on the 9th of June with over 20 curated talks speed consultations with web3 experts networking sessions with investors and even the opportunity to raise funds this conference has it all and you'll get the tools you need to succeed in this industry plus we at Webster Academy will attend it hosts a community Meetup with you in the other smart Community before the main event so come along meet us Network and start building alongside leading web 3 innovators we can't wait to meet you remember Lisbon Portugal 9th

of June we've got a 15 discount for you but ticket prices go up every few days so get your tickets today by using the link in the show notes and to to the promo code web3 Academy 15 to secure your spot or if you become a pro member you can get an even bigger discount so GoPro today and we'll see you in Lisbon Portugal the 9th of June at the Epic web 3 conference alright friends welcome back listen before we get started if you're listening to this on Spotify then there's a poll we want to know if you will scan your eyeball with this crazy thing called orb that we're going to explain in a second so maybe do this at the end of the episode but let us know if you're going to scan if you're listening on YouTube then just put your answer in the comments and then

otherwise Please Subscribe like do all those things help us grow this channel but anyway let's get into this Jay we're going to start with you will I let you give us a bit of context here and set the stage for us what the heck is worldcoin explain it to me like I'm three years old because this stuff is kind of confusing yeah no kidding so worldcoin is aiming to solve two problems one proof of humanity the ability for us to know when you're online that you're interacting with a real human this has been a problem for a while because it Bots it is becoming a much bigger problem because of AI with artificial general intelligence it's difficult to know if you are interacting with a real human online very possible

you're not and I think we all agree we don't want to live in a world where you might be getting your information from an AI you want to know that it is real human that's great that's the first thing that world coin and they're doing that by creating a protocol based around proof of humanity the second thing that they're aiming to solve is the need for Universal basic income we might dive into that at the end of this episode but mainly we're going to focus this episode on proof of humanity and this need for a global identity system so far worldcoin already has 1.77 million verified users that have proven their Humanity using the orb which will explain in this episode let

me just touch on the Ubi the reason that they so the whole purpose of this is they want to solve for Ubi and the reason is because Ai and Technology as we move into what we've been calling the exponential age for a while now of all these Technologies kind of emerging together which are going to become very very deflationary and probably take a lot of jobs from us and allow humans to focus on other things because well AI can do it all well the thing is is that we are going to need to find a way to support a lot of humans if a lot of humans don't have to do a lot of work anymore and so there's a need for Universal basic income which is what Ubi is and so it's actually the founder of chat GPT and open AI is who started

World coin because he said we have a problem here two things we need to be able to prove who humans are and we're gonna need to find a way and we need to prove that humans are one because the issues on the internet that Jay just explained but also so that we can give Universal basic income across the internet in a digitally native way I mean it's impossible to do that if we don't have proof of humanity which does not fully exist yet at least globally and so these are really really big problems these are people thinking into the future which we need and really really big problems to solve and they're trying to solve it all in one shot here so a lot going on but really really interesting stuff and as Jay said 1.77 million verified users already it's not so bad I mean it's an amazing start

considering they just came out of beta what 10 days ago they're Off to the Races okay let's step back from World coin for a second let's start with the problem why do we need proof of humanity I mean there's a lot of reasons for this I think the one that's probably most relatable to us and things that we've talked about a little bit previously is just the idea that AI can now act as a human right we didn't really have this capability before but AI can now speak and talk like a human it can create visuals and audios like we've seen with the Drake music and video Etc like a human can it can even copy the movement and all that of a human so it can make it look like I am

creating a video even though I didn't do it and this was never possible before so that becomes a problem in terms of fake content right and then as you have ai also have ai agents which is where they not only can create stuff but they can go execute across the internet whether that's buying things and selling things and communicating with people completing tasks again this can create issues of knowing are you interacting with a human or a an artificial intelligence right right now we have no way of knowing and so even on Twitter use Twitter even before AI there's tons of bots you never really knew if you were speaking to a human or not if someone that commented on your content was a human or not and we need to know if these are humans or not in case we are going to purchase

things or listen to them and understand things or do research or whatever it is we gotta understand where this information is coming from for many reasons whether it's you want to give consequences to people who are posting incorrect content right you want to be able to pay people you want to be able to whatever you need to know who it is and so that is the one issue I think that we can all kind of understand it's already basically here right and so that's one part of it the other big part of it I think as well is a lot of countries just don't even have identity at all right so like in the US in Canada and Europe which are most people who listen to this we have passports we have driver's license we have identity right and so we can do things with those there

are a lot of countries that most people don't even have a passport right most people don't have a driver's license there's just no way like they just don't have that infrastructure yet and I'm talking talking like countries in Africa places in India et cetera and so that's a big problem right and then if that's in the physical world but you got to think in the digital world even our identities like passports and driver's license they're not really native to the internet world right so it's it's actually a very weird and cumbersome like experience to try to verify that I am a unique human just in the web 2 world like forget web3 it's just weird like I usually have to like upload a picture of my driver's license and like share that I have a I don't know a utility bill at my house like sometimes

you need your birth certificate which I don't know where that is yeah exactly exactly it's weird even for me when I was nomadic for the last five years I didn't have a utility bill and so I actually couldn't verify that I was human even just web 2 Step all the time because they wanted each other I was like well I don't have one like I use airbnbs all around the world so what do you want me to do and so like it was almost like I couldn't be a human on the internet so and again the more we move to this digital world and so look there's many reasons we need you know identity proof of humanity even in the physical world but in the digital world which is as we always talk about we're becoming more and more present in the digital world and especially as the

metaverse rolls out and you know we're continuing to all work online and live remotely and do all these things we need the ability to prove that we are a human that's kind of some of the main reasons and then you also think of like it's actually getting harder to prove you're human as web 3 comes about right we used to have when you would create an account inside of a platform like Twitter or whatever you need an email sometimes you needed a phone number right which like you can still hack those and get around that but it's a little bit harder but in web 3 it's Anonymous it's permissionless and you can create any wallet you want and so I mean most wallets that we see like we see numbers of I think we just did a pro report last week looking at how many users are there in web3 well in

the initial thing if you just pull how many active wallets there are there was like 66 million I think last month that interact in web3 but we don't have 66 million people actually interacting with web3 it's actually closer to probably like 20 million maybe even less which means that the bulk 65 or more of the wallets are either Bots or are duplicates and so this problem actually gets worse when we're using permissionless systems which we believe is where we're all going so we have this really big problem of just understanding who is a human and who is not and it's happening this problem is occurring because of old infrastructure in the real world because of web3 and wallets because of AI and Bots and so there's many many reasons and they're all sort of coming together and we're realizing

holy [ __ ] this is a really big problem yeah you nailed that and I think with the Advent of Chachi PT and artificial general intelligence this problem is growing exponentially because there is content being created at an exponential rate that feels human that looks human it's a problem now but one year from now five years from now it'll be an even bigger problem so we need to address this problem okay next question what are the current ways that we prove Humanity let's just talk about how we currently prove Humanity in our system right so I mean there's a few ways in the digital

world we do it through I mean Twitter blue is a verification to basically improve your real person now again you can get around that we saw that when Elon first launched that but that's a way and really all platforms are starting to do this Facebook is doing this now Snapchat has this look I don't love it this way I don't love having to pay to prove that I'm a human you know what I mean like I am human I'm not paying eight bucks a month to prove that I'm a human that's insane and so I don't love that way but I mean a lot of users are on Facebook a lot of users are on Twitter like it's a decent solution right now it's the best we've got it's not a long-term solution now the other way is the the obvious way of like government-based kyc right so we do this

when you sign up for anyone who's listening when you sign up to like a crypto exchange right you've had the kyc improve using government documents that you're a unique human right the problem with this is one is not Global right like when you go to a bar in a different country they look at your driver's license they don't even know where to find where your birthday is like they're like what the heck is this thing you know what I mean like is it real is it fake so like they don't really they're not interoperable per se they like sort of are but not really you have to trust that the government of that country is doing it the right way which you don't really know it's also like a terrible process you've ever gone to any government agency ever probably in any country I'm sure there's got to be some

Scandinavian countries that do this like really well maybe like Singapore as well I don't know probably yeah yeah yeah that's what I guess but like in Canada anyway it's absolutely terrible and then you got to go every couple years get your picture taken and like get your new driver's license get your new health card go and do your passport every few years and like it's just a pain in the ass but these are the things you got to do to prove that you're a human and that you're a unique human in your country but again you go to a different country it's not so great and some countries just don't have this it's very difficult in a lot of the countries to even have this kind of stuff we don't really have a good Global solution to this and then again none of those well so the first

one works digitally the problem is that Twitter one only works in Twitter it doesn't work on other platforms like Facebook or like your wallet in you know your ethereum or whatever else right they're not interoperable and then your government issued kyc IDs again are not they're not digitally native so this is why you have to go through these weird steps of uploading utility bills and blah blah which is like pain in the ass easy to sort of get around well I wouldn't say easy but somewhat easy you could obviously get fake IDs and stuff and so again it's not scalable and it doesn't work for 8 billion people right it works for your country your small country somewhat it doesn't work for the world we're entering when we all move completely digital so nothing really is exists currently to fix this problem

well and how many people globally right now don't even have identity because as you said their country doesn't have the infrastructure for that we know know that over some three three and a half billion people are not on the banking system so they definitely don't have identity because usually once you have identity The Next Step that you would take is to link up with the banking system so they definitely don't and I'm sure it's even worse than that so this is a go ahead and it's also those are identities to a country that's to your physical location we gotta remember that the digital world the internet is basically a digital Nation right it's a whole different thing it is a global

world where we all live in probably more than we live or we focus on in the physical world and so it needs different identity it needs different things I don't need someone to prove that I'm Canadian and I don't need all these passwords and things to prove that I'm unique human in the digital world it's a very very different thing and I'm not saying we don't still need like a Canadian passport right and things that Canadian driver's license of course we still need those things we still live in the physical world but those are just kind of not really necessary in the digital world I shouldn't have to drive a car in the physical world and get a license of that so that I can then have my ID in the digital world where I don't drive cars do you know what I mean like

it doesn't really make sense and then a passport is used so you can leave the country well if I don't leave the country 50 of Americans have never left America they don't even have passports 50 which is crazy but again I shouldn't have to get a thing that allows me to leave and come back to a physical country to do things in the digital world it doesn't work that way and I know that's kind of weird to think of but you got to think of the digital world as a whole new nation and so we need new identity in that world and that's really what world coin is trying to solve yeah yeah and so with that in mind we believe that it's inevitable that there will be proof of humanity solution I don't know World coin is the first to do this at the scale that they've done with over

1.7 million users and they're also the first two really Sparks this conversation we talked a little bit about this almost a year ago we had Evan McMullen the founder of disco on the podcast and we talked about identity and your digital backpack and taking you know your University diploma and moving that verification online bringing your work verification online proof of employment these different things but World coin is really the first to tackle this proof of humanity problem at the global level and that is the mission that they have set out on to do and think of it as like you need to prove you're human so that you can sign contracts so that you can sign off at

this content that was posted was actually you so that the thing that was said was actually you in the physical world it's easy to do that you can just see me physically say it right in the digital world you don't get that and so that's why we really need this and it goes more than just content there's so many reasons even like things of like you know we talk about airdrops all the time in web 3 right and right now it's such a hassle you're giving airdrops tokens because you want to give governance for people that use your your protocols but right now everyone Farms it with all these Bots and all this stuff and it's like you're giving away a bunch of tokens to a bunch of bots or like duplicate wallets from one same person who's in their basement like trying to farm this thing if I'm gonna

give away some governance or some Equity of my protocol my company I want to make sure it's actually humans and again can't do that not possible so there's a lot of reasons why we need this now Jay the way we do it the physical world kind of weird we got to go into this store we gotta take a picture and then they do all the stuff whatever they print us this plastic card what are ways that we can prove Humanity that would function and work in kind of the digital world I guess but like how do we do this I guess now and like what's possible for us here so the main way that we prove Humanity right now is through biometrics I shouldn't say it is the main way actually it's probably not the main way that we prove from you the main way that

approve humanity is by taking our photo and then having a government ID but Biometrics is the most reliable way to prove our Humanity Biometrics is basically where you use human characteristics to identify somebody and there's three main Biometrics that can be used there's face fingerprint and Eyeball so every day if you have an Apple phone or if you have a Google phone actually don't know if Google does this oh yeah they do they do I think so you would scan your face to unlock your phone that's using face scanning Biometrics previously before that we all used our fingerprint or on your computer you might use your fingerprint to unlock your computer that's using fingerprint

Biometrics now when you want to scale an identity system when you want to scale a proof of humanity system to 8 billion people to the whole world there'll be becomes a problem with face scanning and fingerprint scanning because at that number there is room for error because faces or fingerprints can look the same there can be ones that is very difficult to say oh this face is different this face or this fingerprint is different than this fingerprint so you're saying there's someone out there with the same face as me Jay I know isn't that it's not I want to meet this you're you're one of a kind there's nobody else like you I'm an NF H I'm a non-fundable human oh gosh now you're really confusing

people what the heck is that so enter Iris scan or an eyeball scan the iris offers the best way to prove Humanity at scale of billions of people because our eyeballs have so much I want to use the word data data is not the right word but they have so much uniqueness to them that you can have billions of people have different eyeballs and it's easy to tell that the eyeballs are different I mean easy is a relative word but so where does that lead us that is why World coin has decided to build their proof of humanity protocol using an iris scan now in order to do that they said

okay great we need to build the hardware so they built what they're calling the org and it cost them 50 million dollars to build their first orb to develop this Hardware to develop this Tech and it's fully open sourced and this orb there's currently 200 of these orbs around the world so it's very new there's only a few hundreds not a lot and if you want to enter the world coin ecosystem if you want your world ID you go to one of these orbs you scan your eyeball and then you receive your world ID on the world app Kai I know you're going to Portugal soon which is where there is orbs currently they're only in a few countries Portugal Kenya India a few

more that I can't remember right now are you gonna scan are you gonna get your world I think so I think so the more I learn about it the more I want to support it we'll talk about Security in a second here because I know that's the big thing I remember when worldcoin came out last year people were losing their minds and I mean I get it this orb this weird orbs are gonna scan your eyes everyone's like what the hell is this right like this is insane and I thought the same thing too but the more I've heard the founders speak and I'm just like understood what they're doing number one to solve this bigger problem you're gonna need weird like far at their Tech you know what I mean like of course and then when you understand like oh the only way to really actually solve

this problem is by scanning eyeballs at least to do it in the most accurate way possible like again if you're gonna do this don't half-ass it right don't have some stupid form or if fingerprints that don't work don't do that and they're saying hey we're going all in on this we want to do this the best way possible and that is with eye scanning and so they built this amazing technology to do it and so once you kind of wrap your head around that you go okay like maybe this isn't so bad maybe this isn't so like psyop whatever type thing and for me I think this is so needed and so like yeah I think I'm gonna scare my eye I don't really understand what's the worst that can happen to it anyway why don't we talk about the security side of things Jay yeah well actually first would you

scan your eye would you scan your eye yeah a I'm already skating my face on my Apple phone so like I think it's a bit presumptuous of me to say oh I'll scan my face yes apple is a large company that I think we all trust but they're a centralized company right so there's a lot of risk of where my face scan is stored so that's the first thing but also we are curious this is a total aside but for Sam's upcoming pregnancy there's a bunch of drugs that you can receive in order to help with you know the pain and pain management and we were talking about which drugs you would be open to taking and morphine is one of the drugs that they will give you at the beginning to manage the pain and Sam is very you know she's not the experimenter

she's not the she's like not thank you he's downloaded into the psychedelics is what he said yeah I've done second Oaks I'm already on that path so you brought up a good point in terms of apple right we already are giving her fingerprints and giving our face recognition or Biometrics to companies we do it all the time right and we do it with apple and so if we are allowing Apple to I don't know why we can't let others do it but everyone does this right and so what's the situation with World coin though what do we know about how they're handling the Biometrics that we're taking yeah yeah okay so I'm going to take a shot at explaining this and Kai you can jump in with your thoughts as well because this is getting very techy

and maybe a little bit beyond my comprehension but here's what I understand I can basically explain it to a three-year-old you get your eyeball scanned when you get your eyeball scan there is a Humanity verification that happens that basically verifies that it's not a fake eyeball and it's not an eyeball that already exists in the system it is a unique eyeball so that scan happens and when that scan happens they create a z Cape roof to basically a hash that proves that you're human and that hash comes from the eyeball Scan they then delete the eyeball scan so they're not actually storing the scan of your eyeball in a database they are only

storing the hash that came that was generated this thing's like an ID number an ID number kind of thing that's a better way to put it yes thank you an ID number and that ID number is stored in the form of a zero knowledge proof so I mean we can get into explaining zero I'm going to not explain zero knowledge troops right now now the option you do have an option which you can opt into if you'd like to actually I think you can move that data you can encrypt it and then move it to the cloud of some sort and this is done to help train the AI or something and it's helped to like helps their team basically learn more and can improve the experience but again you don't have to do that you can just opt well you don't have to opt out you just

don't opt into it so there is a possibility for them to take your stuff but it's only if you just say hey I uh take it like do whatever you want with it kind of thing so just most people are not going to do that so ultimately and apple does the same thing they don't actually take your identity and your data and put it onto the cloud or any of that kind of stuff they don't store it on iCloud I don't know if Apple deletes it though but I guess they couldn't delete it you've got to continuously do it well oh no it's stored on your device it's stored onto your device that's what it is so ultimately they're doing the best they can in terms of what they do with your data right I think that's that's great I mean I don't really understand what people can necessarily

do with my eyeball scan anyway I think the other thing to mention on this is that there's the security around the eyeball scan the other thing is that they are using they're powered by ethereum and as a result of being powered by ethereum they're using many trusted companies many trusted protocols that have been built on ethereum to enable them to create the world app which is your wallet now we haven't yet talked about the world app side of it but I should actually say trustless protocols when he said trusted he means like they've been around for a long time and they're blue chips like you to swap

but this is actually a trust list protocol so we're not trusting anyone here we are trusting trustless here's what happens you scan your eyeball okay it gives you this like unique identifier and it does this through zero knowledge proofs so that you can prove the things that of your unique Humanity you can prove those things without sharing all the things right so when you go interact with the internet you have some data about you and you can go prove those things like maybe your age or whatever else so that you're a unique human but you don't actually have to say like I'm unique human and show your driver's license where it shows I mean here's my birthday and here's where I live here's my address blah blah blah so that's the video knowledge proof aspect of it now what happens is they tie that to a uh

self-custodial wallet as far as I believe right is a yeah a while in the ethereum ecosystem that they built I believe it's called World app yeah so that's the world app and that app basically allows you to I mean hold World coin that's where they can airdrop you the Ubi the universal basic income but you can also use other tokens so it's a little self-custody wallet and you can do whatever you want with it kind of thing it uses uniswap protocol to trade exchange exactly and then they also have a token which is called World coin token it's not live yet so don't get scammed if you see anyone out there which I'm sure there's probably a lot it doesn't actually exist currently at the time of recording this but that token is actually being launched on optimism okay so it's an erc20 on optimism and that's

what they use for their Ubi who knows maybe some governance stuff will come in there we're not quite sure how all this will work the thing that I like about this is when we talk about web3 it's all about self-custody right it's all about using trustless applications right it's all about using decentralized applications and if we think of what worldcoin does there is doing here one they've built this really cool amazing technology in terms of their orb right and they've done it because it is the best way to get unique human-ness right and then you've got to go okay well what do we do with that data and the best way to make sure that data is secure and will work digitally and natively is to use blockchain right and so what have they done they've used the most

decentralized smart contract platform which is ethereum and they have have used self-custody wallets to enable this all they're using zero knowledge proofs which is probably the best tech that we have currently in cryptography to ensure that your data is being secured and not being shared with everyone they're not even storing your actual data in terms of like your eyeballs that they're scanning and then the token themselves they're putting on top of decentralized applications and then to actually use all the tokens you're getting and to use the application itself they're creating a good experience because all the tech is underneath there you don't have to go to unit swap it's just already built into the application and again they're using decentralized technology like uniswap to transact and send money and all that kind of stuff so they're really

hitting all the things in the tech stack so far and right there's still tons more that needs to get built out I'm sure in this whole Space will change but like of all the things we preach and of all the things that we appreciate in the web through World they seem to be hitting all of those which is very impressive I think and honestly how the hell their devs are doing it is crazy because like to understand AI biometrics ZK knowledge proves tokenomics self-custody like what the hell I guess they have a team of like 170 people at this point so they're a big team and Alex I don't know how to say his last name delania do you know how to say his last name he's the CEO of world coin he talked about governance being a big part of their plan as well

with World coin when I was listening to an interview where he talked about the revenue model that they would have long term and how there would be opportunity for the community to decide to make decisions on that one more thing I want to bring up here is I do find it very interesting how when we think about the initial problem that web3 really tackled which was Banking and the monetary Revolution the challenge that a lot of the world has is they don't have access to the banking system and when you don't have access to the banking system I don't think we fully grasp what that means because we do have access let me explain what that means that means that

there is nowhere that you can hold your money you must hold your money in cash that means that there is no way for you to invest your money okay I think generally we both we grasp that but the third one that really I think impacts the most people is there is no way to send money and receive money unless you were to stay in Commerce online you can buy anything online that is a huge issue I don't think we grasp and I just want to quickly talk about adhar which is India's identity system I just learned about this earlier today when we were doing research for this podcast so Adar is a identity system that India built back in the early 2000s it's the world's largest biometric ID system before adhar

not all of India had a an identity they could use now 1.3 billion people in India are all on adhar they all have an ID and as a result of having ID this is the coolest thing that came out of this before adhar Thirty to forty percent of India was unbanked they were not in any way able to participate in Commerce as we just said without using cash as a result of adhar India launched UPI which is their payment Network and it has become the most successful payment Network in the world within a country at bringing it brought that 34 to 40 percent onto a form of a banking system that allowed them to participate in

Commerce so it sort of showed what worldcoin is trying to do their motto is first solve proof of humanity second solve Universal Bank basic income or access to Commerce access to banking Well India showed that that Playbook works when they launched adhar and then UPI it's crazy to think how many problems this solves once you saw a proof of humanity digitally it gives everyone access to do things on the internet that we just couldn't do previously right if you don't have that proof of humanity you can't do a lot of things this solves so many so many things so here's a question Jay as we wrap up is World coin gonna be the one that solves it is this the next apple is this the next fate like you gotta

imagine whoever solves proof of humanity is going to be the biggest company in the world is my assumption is role playing gonna be the biggest company in the world that's my question for you I don't know it is very clear that we need to solve the proof of humanity problem that is very clear to me someone will solve that and I hope that it is a decentralized open source protocol that is built on crypto rails using all the things that we discussed it's really the only way to solve it so I think it has to be will it be World coin don't know they got a head start they've got this or built they've invested a lot of money they've got a big team they've got 1.7 million users already verified Kyle's about to be 1.7 and one users when he goes to Portugal in a week but I

don't know there's no way to it's too early I mean will ethereum be the largest smart contract blockchain that one feels more likely but even that we don't even know the answer to yeah agreed yeah and I think that's important to understand guys is look we know it's a big problem we definitely need to solve it is vocally going to be it who knows we're not saying go and put all your money in World coin that would be ridiculous right it is a tiny cup well you can't there's no token but also understand like it's still tiny it's only 1.7 million verified users that's not a lot right it's ahead of most others but it's still not a lot of people considering we're going to 8 billion and so like who knows if this thing makes or not there's probably a bunch of companies trying to do this are

any of them as far as world coin no idea not that we're aware of but we also could just not know right but I think the big thing is for this to work it has to be on blockchain it has to be a protocol that no one owns because if you're going to scan eyes or do whatever whatever technology we use to proof of humanity and if one company owns that if Apple ends up winning that or Google or Amazon or Facebook or whatever that is not cool we cannot have that that means they control every human's identity imagine how bad that would be that would be terrible so that I mean that's way bigger than any country like okay India controls 1.3 billion that's not even that great right now it's helped and

it's done well but that's still not great but imagine India also controlled yours if you're in the US or in Europe or whatever because you're all eight billion that's a problem we need this to be decentralized we need it to be governed by everyone that's involved we need this to be a public good right not a company that solves this problem and other than blockchain it's not really possible to create a public good because you can't really get the incentives correctly for actually people to participate and do this whereas using blockchain and using tokens and all this kind of stuff you can actually create a system where everyone is incentivized to participate and support the system and build it just like ethereum we've created this Global decentralized permissionless database so that everyone can participate in and if it didn't have the incentive mechanisms of ethereum and

the token it wouldn't exist no one would secure it no one would participated it right and so we need to have these sort of like feedback loops with incentives and that's what blockchain enables and so I think worldcoin is doing it the right way but I have no idea if they'll be the one that actually achieves this they've got a great team they've got a head start and they've got great Tech so far and they've got big plans Caillou had an interesting take before we hit record about Ubi what are your thoughts on Ubi Universal basic income so I've always been against Ubi so Ubi is basically just like everyone makes the same amount of money and in this instance usually you're talking about in a country like usually when you go like communist everyone just you get a paycheck at the end of the month that's

it and that's always kind of failed and I've never really liked that because no one is incentivized to like go and do anything else to build things right and obviously being an entrepreneur I'm on the capitalist side like I think people should take responsibility for their own life and go and create value to the world and that's how you should get paid I do understand that if there is a world where we can get technology to just do all that for us we don't need to be entrepreneurs anymore right the AIS can be the entrepreneurs and then humans can go and be creatives and can do other things right and that's not necessarily the best way to make money we've seen Pat and even if web3 fixes a lot of that I still don't think it's a great way to make money and so maybe there is a world

where we do need some of it I don't think it should come from governments printing money because that's just not going to work and because it's just gonna inflate away money and things are still more expensive and it's just it's not a solution it doesn't work in the Fiat world but I do think that we already have Universal basic income and terms of the digital world I think the digital world have Universal basic income and I say that because ethereum is basically already doing that right we have this database that everyone is going to use around the world right for all business for all money for whatever and to participate in that you need to use eth and then to secure that thing or if you want to participate in the Universal basic income you can stake your Ethan earn anywhere between four and seven percent and it's this

self-fulfilling thing that has this feedback loop that just continues to work it never inflates too much because the more people use it the more it burns and then that also contributes to paying out the people that are staking so if everyone just staked Ethan then everyone uses ethereum we have this like incentive mechanism to use this public good that won't inflate away it actually will be appreciate continually as we more as we use it and so that is essentially a way to create Universal basic income right there that we already have and eat and so it's possible with blockchain is what I'm saying now how does worldcoin do that I don't know they talked about watch their own L2 so maybe they create a native token to that L2 and that's how they do it I'm not exactly sure I never really thought of a

way that Universal basically income could work until I saw what blockchains do and ethereum is really the only one that's currently doing that like Bitcoin doesn't do that because again the BTC that you take you've got to sell it for other things right whereas everything in ethereum stays within that economy and so Universal basic income actually works in that sense so maybe we'll coin will find a way to do that I'm hopeful they will who knows it's a long long journey ahead of them let's wrap here I got one final thought I want to share before we wrap and Kai if you have anything you shared as well one thing that I found very interesting about the business model for World coin was the manner in which they plan to get these orbs All Around the World in order for this to work you need orbs all around the world

and you need people to be using them to be scanning them so you need not only do you need the orb in various countries but then you also need people basically boots on the ground like marketing the orb telling people to use it attracting new users in and so World coins plan is essentially like a franchise model where you could sign up and you would be the controller I'm going to put controller in air quotes of an orb so the orb would be sent to you you would set it up in your city and then you would encourage people to use it and then every time somebody scans you would get a grant or a percentage of world coin given to you for being the one to bring more people into the network so I thought that was

really interesting the thing that's going to be the most interesting to me is when we see the tokenomics because right now all we know is if you sign up you get World coin and if you run an orb you get World coin so where does the demand come for worldcoin right we can't have everyone using getting Ubi if everyone's just selling this token that's the same as Fiat right remember just we're just inflating it away so how do they make this thing actually a sustainable token like what ethereum does in terms of activity and burning Etc that's what I'm unsure of but they've nailed almost everything else so I'm hopeful that they will have some sort of interesting tokenomic structure here but I I can't wait for that and we'll definitely the only the only thing I heard so far is that one of the things

that they're thinking about is when you want to use your world ID that you might pay fees to use your world ID so which makes sense if you which makes sense right you use your world ID to verify to interact with something the public service then yeah then you would pay a fee to use it that's the only thing I've seen so far as a possible demand side of which makes sense it's like you want to use the ethereum blockchain you want to use permissionless block space well then you pay a fee to do it you want roads on your in front of your house well you pay a fee in taxes to your government to build those things for you so like these all make sense you should have some sort of fees if it's solving such a big problem for you like roads are or

permissionless block spaces so yeah that makes sense to me final thoughts on your end Kai I'm just gonna say like originally was not so excited and now the more I learn about this thing I'm like whoa this is crazy nothing surprises me anymore the way this world's going and the way that Tech is going I'll stay curious and I'll support all these things because I think we need them all yeah I'm on board I'm scared of my Lisbon we will keep you up to date Kai I think you'll share with everybody what it was like to scan your eye and get your world ID we will also keep you up to date on what comes out of world coin because they are moving fast and there's a lot happening on their end as Kai mentioned maybe they launch a layer two we will see what the adoption of

world ID how that plays out you can actually go to their website you can see how many signups they have it is a live number guys if you're a big fan of web3 understand that 1.7 million verified users that means 1.7 million people have the self-custody wallet over a coin that's one of the biggest wallets in the world right now and this has literally been a couple weeks so like this thing is moving and is a way to onboard people in the web 3. they're already one of the biggest platforms and I mean 170 people and they're staffed there's not a lot of crypto companies that big so like you're making moves whether you like it or not so let's keep watching thanks so much for listening in everybody wherever you're listening as always appreciate a like a comment a follow on podcasts on YouTube come on into Discord if you want

to discuss this podcast in our Discord we have discussions of every podcast where we break them down and figure out what the next things that we need to learn are so we're all staying ahead of the curve and we can all capitalize on the opportunity of web 3 have yourselves a great week thank you for listening to web3 Academy your one trusted source to capitalize on the next big phase of the internet if you enjoyed this episode please share it and subscribe or follow so that you don't miss the next one while you're at it there's a link in the description for a free newsletter where we provide timely and relevant web3 insights so you can confidently build and invest in web 3. make sure to subscribe today one final note this podcast is for educational purposes only

and nothing we say is financial advice crypto and webpage are risky and you should never invest more than you're willing to lose thank you friends and see you in the next one