Why Fast Finality Can Enhance Cross-Rollup Transactions With Nuffle

Transcript

welcome back to the rollup today we have a technical presentation about the nuffle labs ABS welcome to igen lay unlocked an interactive educational Journey Through the igen lay ecosystem created by technical Founders and builders for the entire crypto Community a special thank you to our partners allir polymer authentic skate and lrange for helping to make this happen our goal is to raise the Collective knowledge of the igen AVS ecosystem and unpack the technical designs of the top teams in space welcome to Igan lay unlocked welcome back to the rollup today we have a technical presentation

about the nuffle labs ABS I'm looking forward to this one with Alton and BR welcome in guys and let's get started thanks for having us um I'm Alton by the way one of the founders of nuffle um FR and I work together at near before starting nuff Labs um yeah I can I can quickly get into what we do um a couple of folks know us from waffles and all that kind of memes but uh we're a pretty technical team so let's let's start and uh Deep dive um we've started our story started with near da uh we're the team that built near Da Back in last year um this was a sort of a solution that we built seeing that there's going to be tons of l2s and there's going to be a

need for cheap secure uh data availability So currently we have one rollup on mainnet uh that's in top 25 called rss3 uh we were able to drop their costs by 99% and uh we're getting we're getting way and more and more rollups come in to test net and Main net in Q3 and Q4 um while we're building this we saw another opportunity uh because if you're launching a lot of rollups uh there's this state in liquidity fragmentation so traditionally you used to bootstrap a L1 uh for a decentralized network to be able to do this uh we know there's a bunch of folks that are doing this as an L1 but our approach was to be more practical and go to ethereum and

say hey can we actually grab um sort of some cryptoeconomic security to uh to build a new decentralized network so for that reason we're building currently on testet which is the nuffle fast finality lar AVS that leverages NDA to uh store rollup sequences allows you to sort of do uh State aggregation and give that to give that state sort of back to applications to be able to build cross chain applications um and uh even like Fast liquidity purchase so we can we can deep dive into some of the applications later um and at last we're building something new with igir we'll talk about that at the end too uh we're quite excited of it as a team uh we're calling

that enough protocol that is currently in the introp and uh restating space so um let's get into some of the things that we are trying to solve obviously modularity is great but there are certain problems we're seeing which is fragmentation terrible ux and terrible security and that's where I know Andy knows where chain abstraction comes in so fragmentation uh if you look at obviously the couple of rollups that are top right so you're seeing a lot of tvl being distributed across arbitrum op bass and other rollups that were getting getting spin up um we see a terrible ux I always give this example of mosis like you don't know where to send the funds to um we want to solve this problem like we just want to make sure that ideally

the users should be able to uh not know where the where they're putting the Assets in the other thing is terrible security obviously um we uh if you're launching a new rollup you're creating a new almost like a there's a new L2 right so instead um the security is going to be terrible why not rely on why not rely on ethereum so that's how we're thinking about it in terms of problems and obviously like we started with near da uh that solves the da problem but we think near day is not enough uh to solve some of the liquidity uh some of the state and liquidity fragmentation problems and that's why we're building on igen Lair um so what we're building is the nff fast finale there AVS which

is called nffl if you go to Holi test net today um it is a fast and secure settlement layer so it leverages in the design uh near da and igen lay to provide int propability so we verify state attestations with currently restak e um this currently um this has no sort of this doesn't care what sequence are us using it eventually is not care and care about what de are using too so we will integrate like Ian da and ail uh and this becomes almost like this Universal fast finality layer allowing the layer to to if they really want to use it for a certain reasons like L2 to L1 bridging they can use that but also

we will use this for um cross chain applications too and the benefit of this is like you know for op there's like op plasma so for that to happen like you know you need to be B op plasma but for us it's like really doesn't matter it's like it could be a ZK rollup and a optimistic rollup we want to be able to interrupt them pretty easily so that's the goal uh is to be very um sort of credibly neutral for any rollup to be able to use our fast so the design is uh pretty interesting this is our first design um so there's couple of pieces going on here and I'll I'll break it down how this works um so we were using two l1s to build a solution which is quite interesting um

so we have ethereum obviously that's where the smart contract sets are for the AVS uh this is usually very um almost like it's almost very standardized in ABS uh um ABS design you have contracts to be able to put the states in um this is called middleware contracts on on on ethereum um and we have the neod smart contract so neod smart contract is for every Network we're currently keeping a blob contract on near so for our own um sort of Roll-Ups this comes out of box right you just you just already have a newda smart contract but for like op arbitrum and

others like we can just relay those sequences to near and then use that sequence after there is some sort of consensus on that sequence take that and use those sequences um on the rollups uh we have obviously smart contracts that check Network statea test stations ideally after the after we have um we have crypto economically back State groups we'll push that to other rollups so that they can be used there um and obviously there's some offchain architecture that's the point of um I there so we have an operator that runs pretty much currently a full node uh and then ATT tests and then checks the you get the sequence from NDA you run a full

node and then you check whether that's the the sequence is correct so um and then there's a bunch of operators doing this right so let's say currently like 25 um eventually maybe hundreds um and then all of these are aggregated to ensure that's where the consensus piece is coming in aggregated to ensure that there's uh old operators are converging into one state route for that rollup so to get more in deeper into ethereum there's obviously rakers right that's what Igan is using uh they restake their Capital to Igan cor contracts you have the middleway contract that essentially

facilitate the interaction between the offchain nodes that is our operator set and the I protocol and uh the other thing is obviously resters delegate their reate eat to The Operators which then technically becomes like in L1 sense validators right to the validate but they're offchain they're not doing any blockchain validation instead they are validating that the state is correct for those l2s that are that we are uh part that we are taking um so what we yeah real quickon um actually want to come back here so so so this is the broad design for the fast finality layer right here yes correct okay and so

um like just very broadly speaking why why use Z layer like like why do you need igen layer in this design for like I understand the economic security aspect but why did you guys choose to use igen layer to to facilitate the the part Within ethereum rather than using like a different form of security whether it be through something like ZK or just using like a a typical sequencer model or something of that extent like like what is the what is the reasoning behind using IG layer here yeah so there's a couple of things one of them is we're trying to get to the state route of a rollup as fast as possible and as cheap as possible apart from the

capital cost of grabbing security from IG which also we're working on with IG um first of all you cannot for now you cannot ZK every VM out there so you cannot really go ahead and be like okay now I'm going to run a ZK VM for this specific rollup and then get the state route out because one it's too costly and then two is some of them is that just not possible um and if even if it's possible um today's validity rollups take at least an hour let's say minutes because 16 clat says minutes now um let's say it takes up to an hour what we're trying to provide is a service that is grabbing post execution call it post execution

because rushi calls it post execution now um at three to four seconds and that is not possible right now to do through any ZK um zkm so that is why we're grabbing security grabbing cryptoconomy security to go fast as possible so what is the trade-off that you make by achieving f F finality where what is this uh security trade-off that you make yeah so when you are running an OP rollup for example or a ZK rollup before a ZK both of them you grab the security full security of etherium validator set right because the validity of the state route is being checked either by the validity proof that is

coming from a ZK approver or you play the 7-Day game where you just wait for one out of and honest uh validator or fisherman if you want to call it but at the end of the day the decision maker is um ethereum what we're doing is we're grabbing a part of the3 inv validator set by the restake eth and a test to um state route of any rollup that we integrate with so the the trade-off is that you don't 100% inherit the whole Val of state of ethereum but you get partial Bell data set of ethereum to attested State Route

does that make sense yeah um okay so then I'm a I am a malicious uh rollup sequencer or operator connected to the nuffle fast finality layer I am engaging in cross cross domain or cross rollup trans actions that are trying to settle State across multiple rollups at the same time um I'm going to go ahead and uh commit some uh malicious ZK proof or uh a a fraudulent transaction in an optimistic setting that has KnockOn

effects across other rollup States if that proof goes through or if that optimistic verification after the 7-Day window happens um but I'm going to do that in the nuffle vast finality layer so that I can get that finality much quicker and I can uh basically execute this attack way faster how do you guys how how do you guys stop me yeah so for yeah first of all as a rollup you if you lie so there's two things one of them is you can lie in the sequence that you can post a sequence and don't bond on it and then you can post another sequence that's problem number one which will working with a with another ABS that is called radius who's trying to solve this

they're trying to bond on the sequence for as a decentralized sequence or set so the when you say sequence is that like does that mean like a like a block or like a set of blocks yeah so what a sequence is in rollups is basically bunch of transactions put into one and compressed so that is what rollups are putting on da layer right and what and basically when you put it on the da layer and you get finalized um then you have Assurance from ethereum that this is the P this is the thing that the rollup basically pulls up to me but it can never promise that it's not going to change that's op to the sequencer the sequencer you later says well I posted this but now I want to do this they can still do it you have to have some

bonding basically to have enough security that's like the SE that's like the centralized aspect of sequencers right um so that's one thing that they can lie the other thing that they can lie which is very very difficult because they have to change in seven days how the execution client is running is change the execution client and then now we have a mismatch between the state route and the sequence so that you have a mismatch between the inputs and then the state transition function so if you change a stand transition function you will have different outputs right so let's that's one that that's the thing that can go wrong so what nffl allows you to so first of all that is a single sequencer fault in NFL we have multiple operators running the same

state transition function right so you have almost like a validator set of bunch of different executors running the same thing and then providing signatures that they that that what they think is the correct State R so if eventually there is a problem that we see that anybody can basically say hey wait a minute there's a problem with the state word they're lying what we will trigger is a slashing event where the The Operators who lied will get slashed for the state rots that they um attest to okay so we're we're relying on operators to effectively uh commit to truth out of the repercussion of being

slashed yes um and then we're expecting these operators to to have some sort of like technical knowledge in in knowing where there's like misalignment or like basically fraud in the system or like like what is the Reliance on The Operators per se MH and the Reliance on The Operators is that they run the state transition provided by the rollup because the rollups provide the state transition that they run that correctly understood yeah cool um we we'll talk more about slashing and stuff in a bit but that was my main kind of questions on this design um it is it is sort of pre-confirmation

done by that's what I'm getting to done by restake eth not the block producers but operators that all agree that operators that are agree that you know this is this this is going to be the state in 12 minutes but instead we're going to say that it's is going to be the state in three seconds so that you guys can use it if if I'm lying I'm going to get slashed because it's like a new it's it's pretty much like it's very useful for if you're trying to move between al2s pretty pretty fast right like if you're trying to fill an order or stuff like that that's like I'm going to this pretty fast you're getting you're getting partial um valid L said confirmation yeah um for the finality for the things that you're getting

attested on instead of just full finale from ethereum it's a tradeoff with right yeah with the with with with Ian token slashing basically is is the current state yeah exactly eventually is the goal for eth yeah exactly so like basically grabbing certain amount of e and then saying if I lie please take this away from me yes yeah cool and usually these people are like you know like Galaxy digitals of the world where they're actually like validators right so they're validators on ethereum and they're restating their ethereum and then they becoming operators so they already have like they already there's a relationship between

ethereum validator set and an NFL validator set right so that's kind of the mapping maybe it's not as big as the it's not as big as the ethereum validator set let's say it's like huge right but you still get like the the large large uh ethereum validators to be to be part of it I'm glad that we're uh relying on USA public companies for our e e Economic Security truly bril it could be it could be it could be you too like it doesn't matter we'll Whit list you for the solo Staker conversation has been hot on Twitter too yeah um um actually probably it's it's very beneficial for you because you're also like burning a lot of capital right so now you get more yield on top of your validator like being a

validator yourself if Andy wants to be a validator obviously um so um cool but we were here right on ethereum yes um I think we talked about ethereum so we were talking about near da so near da is where we're posting the data right the rollup data so we have a block relayer that actually dumps the data from um if you're using near day you're already like dumping data to near but if you're op there's a block pre layer that basically sends it sends the the the the blops to near da and this is where you get consensus on the sequence and then operators come in they run it currently a near indexer right to just get the in

get the lated blops so they they take the blocks and they run a node which is the state transition function that FR was all talking about and saying hey the data I'm getting and the the the results I'm getting are the same so this must be the they're just basically attesting that State Route saying these two results are correct um so we're using like obviously NE da is is pretty like it's a solution that works pretty fast so that's why fast finale there comes in it's two seconds to 3 second two second finality on near blocks um ideally in the future like we would want to integrate like IG da where there get a lot of like IG da customers that can use

this and there's also like aail that we're talking to just kind of get like them integrated so that we're making this kind of a universal solution for uh for everyone real quick what does s FFL mean it used to be it used to be super fast finale layer but then then we're like two3 seconds is fast but it's not like super fast so let's just call it let's remove that uh s um so it's NL replace it with a with an N okay n which is what is the components of this aggregator yeah agregator aggregator is a for now since operators are basically signing things and then they need to send them to ethereum and then if you send

ethereum signatures uh sorry if you send operator signatures all the time to ethereum the cost is going to like blow up because of ethereum fees what we do is we basically aggregate them in one place it could be for now it's just a server but it doesn't matter because it's it's we're trying to avoid the the tragedy of the commments by basically taking up the um taking up the role of providing these signatures in a sparse Merkle tree that is created on sffl aggregator or NFL aggregator so that we can verify it more cheaply we're also planning to decentralize this and then put probably the aggregator directly on near da because it's so cheap to do it there so that we can grab it later on through an indexer so there's no problem that like

there's no centralized Point um it's in the works it should be it should be out with the the main net so it's kind of similar to like a comet BLS kind of signature scheme where it just Aggregates all the all thees yeah exactly okay and that's being ran right now by some node within the a network or one server right now for because we're on testet right we're just for convenience for The Operators just send their signatures in one place and like I said to avoid the strategy of the commment where basically nobody's responsible for anything we just do it for ourselves but eventually what we're going to have what we're going to do is we're going to deploy a contract on near da where everything goes there so it's a decentralized place and then we can just

relay them back got it yeah and the usefulness of this is like then we can turn this aggregator maybe we haven't talked about it but Fred is working on SDK that can pull this and like let developers use it so they can just say hey I'm going to build an app from op to ARB so that we can make it pretty easy to use that uh for straight routs so that's the goal like that's what the hell protocol is meant to meant to use it here like let's say a general message passing protocol like we're working with a bunch of like cross chain Landing platforms so they can integrate with the SDK to kind of do like pretty fast uh lending um okay so um we talked about this already but there's a lot of offchain nodes right so there's an indexer that takes the data

uh and then uh compare the rollup data uh we already talked about operator know signing a message to a tested estate uh and finally I just talked about it as well like this is a BLS signature aggregation when we have a consensus then we can aggregate into an API give it to a Deval or a developer you know give it to like NAD or something and be like hey let's build an app right like that be that's the ideal State and then the cool thing about this is like you can be a you can be like an op op rollup and it can be an ARB rollup and we can just like do um intro between them um let it like I'm collecting an NFD on op and I want to do something on ARB we can design that sort of design space that's what we're quite excited about apart

from Bridges and all the other stuff that you can build on here um cool so NL in practice um we talked about a couple of different things um so cross Landing platforms this is the one that we're actively exploring and have couple of partners coming to be announced this this month um we are interested in like Crossing applications in general like I already talked about it where like use your lens profile in in L2 um ideally we're we're also integrating with l as said layer Zer dvn so that will allow us to build like Fast Bridges between like I and da rollups between our rollups so that's going to be quite exciting uh and then the other things that we like you can literally build anything that can

combine two are more different al2 for now but the future is I guess it's going to be any L1 to L2 like that's kind of the the Future Vision um and with with the guarantees of obviously like decentralized sets on the both ends on on the L1 and L2 or l one tell one doesn't really matter um yeah so any anything here that's that maybe comes to your mind Andy given given we you've seen this uh you've seen this architecture now um I mean I just have more technical questions and more about the ABS and the slashing stuff so I don't know if if we want to go over those now or or if that can come up in a bit but uh I mean there's a ton of there's a ton of use

cases for settling cross cross rule up transactions amongst different I mean there's there's just I mean it's it's almost endless so I'm I'm pretty excited about uh this stuff over the line generally regardless of the design I mean this is a really cool design super excited for like coordinated block building and even just like intents that are super fast there's anything that we can do to like get these cross domain transactions going enables that kind of like chain abstracted experience so um yeah gen broadly excited um nothing in particular here awesome and if do you said you have questions on um slashing now or because the other one is like enough protocol if you want to ask something it yeah sure yeah sure so um okay

so where do you guys see the demand for nuff ABS coming from and like is there any way that we can know what an estimated yield uh uh variance could be for this like how does one understand where the like who who's going to use this and and like should people restake to nule like what's the what's the expected demand and yield going to be yeah I can talk about this a little bit so first all the applications that will use this at some point just like other defi will will have transaction fees so that is where the yield will come from um the other thing is obviously just like in either

L1 they will be you know there's there's a chance that you might get another token I'm not going to say what token it is because it's a public conversation but uh you know that's the two sources of I guess yield right which is one that's going to be transaction fees that you'll be getting it from it's like an L1 pretty much and then two is the the inflation right so like there's there's going to be maybe not an inflation maybe something else but you know there's going to be some token that you'll be getting to be part of part of NFL uh operator set so transaction fees from what uh from the finalizing State transitions or from the da posting or from the like the precom s service making sure that the finality gets done like and like what is that going to like

yeah like what's that model so the so there's two things usually it's going to be the applications who are going to be using these services and then they can reflect the the fees onto their users or they can e cost up that's the that's the beauty of it right but the the majority of the fees are going to be since we're going to be paying the operators the the fees that are going to be paid is going to be from the applications that are using um these cross chain fast settling uh Primitives let's say think about like a lending platform that you that there are two two contracts on two different l2s and then you're using it either the L2 sorry either the the the application who's doing close chain lending can pay for the fees of grabbing the for per

attestation right because they they need these attestations um to kind of pay for the fast settlement or they can reflected on today users okay okay so we have this world where there's a some sort of model where you guys will be charging fees as you kind of explained hoping it's not like an optin mechanism where people can only opt in and then they have vendor lock in um and then eventually there could be other forms of rewards and so I'm a reaker and I'm like I'm looking at this system I'm looking at the other avss I'm like okay maybe I'll I'll deploy uh my capital n they seem to have a good

business model they have uh like a real product Market fit um what what are the slashing rules what is the risk to my restate Capital that is gonna uh basically come to come to play and how will you guys enforce the slashing rules and like what do you guys Envision those to be and then also like where are you guys at in the development of uh writing your slashing contracts and kind of like how's that experience been yeah good question so so there's two strategies that we're looking into for slashing because the the slashing happens when the operator lies about something right the slashing happens if they run a state

transition function maliciously that they they they just came up with a state transition function that doesn't exist um the other part that is a little bit more tricky is what happens if while we're attesting to these L2 decides to Fork because now the state trans function is weird right that is something that we're looking into and we're going to be looking into with IG also together so wait wait what's the core problem there is like if the if the L2 reorgs then the operator doesn't know which chain to attest to or yeah basically so what is the canonical chain right if the L2 the L2 Forks we don't know which Trans State transition function is the correct one and then like who decides it is the correct one we don't know there's like some kind of

training wheel it's a weird situation right it's that's webly token for thatf reason makes a lot ofense um there social consensus problem just go to igen token and use the igen token to decide what the social consensus says um but the objectively verifiable one which is basically I as an operator run something that is not correct we're going to be slashing based on a fraud proving game where after let's say x amount of blocks before we settle on um I name um there's going to be a fisherman which we will also reward um just like an operator where we're going to be saying oh he lied and then we we slash the operator that is going to be um that

that has their stake up front there's this there's this other question maybe that um Andy you might be you might be interested in answering which is what happens to the SL funds right that's on Igan lir model essentially on the igen token the the ones that are actually correct get the get the like slash money back or slash tokens back right in our case could yeah yeah it could be the other case where like if I'm in the right side of the operator set like uh the this this is a wrong like he he has executed a wrong sayate transition function mine is correct and we already agreed that like this is the case and these guys got slashed we get that money back so this

is like an idea we not like finalized but I I would suspect this this is going to be seen in bunch of different AVS it is called people who are watching this go and read the paper it's called Stak sh it's from s yes we have a post or a video coming with them as well really interesting let's all gang up on each other let's put the let's put all the operators against each other when they're supposed to be working together and like make them stitch on each other like we're in kindergarten but it's I mean someone's the idea there is that basically if there's somebody's lying there should be no one who's affected by the problems that the operator is causing so that the operator funds should go back to the other operators and also the users it's a very

interesting model which kind of goes into like kind of insurance that you buy it's a different topic but um it is very very cool so I think we're going to be also implying some kind of uh logic there to basically if somebody gets slashed well person who gets slashed should pay the other people who get affected so in this model in the s in the SF or nffl SFL operator attesting to the aggregator that is where there would be the slashing logic baked into to that part of this diagram or or like where exactly would this be baked into uhuh the the op the slashing project will always be on IG layer IG layer decides is getting rewarded or slashed so there's going to be it is not

live yet I L is working on it we're also looking at looking into it if you go to like IG Lay's um test that contract you can see that there's work being done on it um but no matter what happens we cannot decide who is going to get slashed who's going to get reved it's always I there okay and then but within this diagram uh the um the the point of truth that needs to happen is where there's a flashable event yeah NFL ABS middleware that's where we basically commit the BLS signatures and somebody can listen and say um provide a challenge okay and so yeah so right now ethereum slashing is not live Ian

slashing is gearing up to go live pretty soon uh in theory that's basically the like the next steps okay so um you guys have to write your own slashing contracts if I'm not mistaken this doesn't isn't provided to you by I layer Y how complex is that and how how much a problem is that for like you guys for the ABS space yeah generally um slashing logic is not something that it's very very easy to get on the first try right that's why there's also training wheels on ION layer I can give you an example we're coming from near near protocol doesn't do um slashing in the sense of how ethereum does they do jailing so you get kicked out of your validator set because what could happen

is that your electricity might go out or your your something in the hardware might go wrong and then you might get slushed on your funds so it's a very very um challenging thing to do um for for wants to and when the abss come in basically what you're doing is you're kind of replicating what an L1 might slash on plus more so it's actually very very interesting design space but it like I love I'm I'm a technical person I like this but if you're like a a a regular let's say um developer that is an app developer this is not going to be like as easy as you would do as on a contract but the cool thing is IG is

making this as easy as possible for everyone they're providing enough Primitives for you to go ahead and Implement these and as like season dsers as n for labs we're also going to be providing some we're going to explain it in later in N protocol but we're going to be providing some kind of like blueprint Logic for um all of these slashing slashing things because some of the slashing is very very like double double signing is a very very easy to understand thing to do and you can have a very small contract that you can deploy and you can attest to it um but there's more complex things that but this is a very interesting design space right it's like building blocks on top of building blocks and eventually it's going to be almost like opens up in contracts where you just like import it

into your contract and you immediately have it yeah so do you guys have to wait until slashing goes live to write your contracts or are those ready now or they in process yeah there's there's slashing like I said slashing is something that is not easy to get in the first try IG is working on it we're working on it it's more like a like open source implementation of but it changes every every not day but like every week or so so it's it is very very maybe not anymore but in the beginning it was changing every week actually U but we're working with IG team to kind of implement here from them what they're changing what they're thinking also put our input into how their design is working the other thing to bring it up maybe is like there's going to be a lot

of these abs as a service platforms yes right like I think um we've seen this with r as a service I mean front and I saw it last year where there was only one and then there was like 15 at one like in over like four or five months like I've started seeing that more now like there's there's three or four that I've kind of popped up already and like these are going to be pretty you know they're going to come in they're going to learn from IG L and they're just going to like standardize those and they're just going to deploy these with like a click of a button like a wizard from alt Lair is already getting there right so which quite EXC about that like I think there's going to be like now there's 100 abss on the test net and then there's going to be like on the on

the Hy registry now I'm I see a future where there's going to be like thousand right that that's not far um and you know with technology like I did this math the other day when we started working with Igan Lair when we were at near um there was like eight abss I think at that time like now almost a year later it's like hund on on the whole ski right so you already had a 10x last year um so these are gonna like as the standardization goes goes live like there's going to be way more abss than than you think like everybody will try to and we think it's not only on ethereum like we can talk about that later too it's going to be everywhere um so that's why we were pretty selective with uh teams that we chose to have on this series um there's going to be a lot

of bandwagon hopping on abss um we get pitched on the latest AI cross chain modular ABS a couple times a month AI operating system is pretty fun uh but cool anyway well thanks for that yeah awesome can keep going yeah sure so we we announced this um almost like two three weeks ago now which is we're building um so we're building a new product called not protocol um we won't give too many of the technical details there will be block posts coming up from both both I think I side and us that how this is going to work but we have started to do the development on our side um so the goal here is maybe The Story Goes is you know we're we we love

ethereum but we come also from near um and there's been interest actually because we are known on the near side there's been interest to put near assets into our abs and currently the way you know you can put any erc20 to igir contracts so as other restatement platforms um the problem with this is like you need to bridge uh from from near to e and um the Rainbow Bridge which is the canical bridge is it takes like eight hours to syn it's an optimistic Bridge obviously but it it you know it takes a lot of time um so we saw a world where you know and we we've been chatting with a bunch of different abss um they they are quite interested to get other assets to um to kind of

bolster their security so we see a future where um you can you can restake from anywhere um but also reward from anywhere um so assets stay where they are and the contribution is native rather than bridged assets because bridging is like you can Bridge hundred ton different ways and there's a lot of risks but instead let's just keep the assets where they are um so that's what we're working on and some of the things we see that we think are quite exciting is like better devx so instead of doing one blockchain you can do multiple blockchain for the middleware logic um you you get improved safety so you get like pulling native assets for shared security um you also get multi-chain

restating strategies like have like for us for example when we're if we're doing L1 to L2 L1 to L1 or other ones like we should be able to get some of other assets to back those up um but also like some of the things is like cost optimization you asked the good question is like how much Shield I'm getting um like is there a way where I can actually like in an intent manner optimize my cost as an ABS and say hey I only want to base like pay 20 basis points is there a world where I can grab that so that's where our heads is at like after an FFL is going live uh in the in the next coming months this is where we will be like focusing more on and like working with abs is to provide these uh

sort of benefits with Ian lir right so like we are giving these native assets from other chains so there would be like expect like Knuffle contracts everywhere but um the the accounting is almost like settlement is on there so it's more like a I would say it's more like a restating protocol that settles on igen Lair itself um so that's kind of bit of an alpha that's what's going to come up from nuff over the over the next couple of months sweet well I'm excited to to have a look at the back end on this um I don't have many questions now just based on kind of like this slide but um super cool just wanted to share that as an as an alpha

for for the thank you for the rollup yeah for the rollup cuz we know Andy quite some time now yeah um awesome um cool sweet um well I think that's the last slide yep so you can check out your twitters and things I should not D but anyway uh Twitter Twitter yeah Twitter is uh Twitter is Mr alatar uh that's our nff Labs is our Twitter uh we've been growing nicely there so we we share a lot of our updates on on on both channels frz is also it's a bit it's a complicated name so maybe comp I'm going to change it I'm going to change it just after this call and I'm gonna I'm gonna let you guys know cuz the last time n tried to read it he's like dud I can't

read this I don't hell's going on yeah I probably have Chang it to my name yeah yeah so cool but this is uh this is us we're quite excited about this sort of fluffy um buffle brand that we're building which is uh which you might see more and more merch in the next coming months with this one too um awesome um I guess uh leaving leaving you guys with one thing is um in the in the broader kind of ecosystem of of IG layer um kind of what do you think is the the core what is the core competency of this idea of reaking and extending Economic Security um what is the core like what

is the core reasoning for building on aan layer and for uh you know kind of using this technology rather than building a rollup or building an L1 um app chain Etc yeah I think FR and I both would have different answers on this one um so number one like founder has always been very important for us as a team like we love Ilia as a one like that's our first like kind of getting into the space really really uh we work really close with Ilia still um and then the other thing is like sham has just strok me as a very strong founder uh with like really you know has a very long-term mindset so we want to be like we want to be in the communities where we know there's a five or 10 year game um it

maybe more um so that's number one number two is like we have built near protocol as the team like it is very hard to build an L1 like I know it just takes a couple of years to build one you go you know you build a new consensus like if you for Cosmos SDK people are like well you Fork this one so like like tender for example right so the the benefit here is like I can actually bootstrap my network pretty fast right like in three 3 to six month period versus like uh like two three years period of development so that that excites us you can go to market pretty fast with with avss and the other thing is like you know we're talking about blockchain improvements for a while now but there's still things that you can't

do with blockchains there you know there State machines um you know they sometimes come in with bulky and fat protocols so the the benefit of this is you can you can do pretty much anything with verifiable compute right so you obviously there's crypto Centric views of this where you know um like oracles and um like Fast finale layers us like us that can't be done on blockchains are available with abss you see Co processors like lrange and brevis and other ones that are improving defi so like things that you can't do before even just saying that I've run this database and I'm proving that that I've done this thing on chain so that defi can use this so you get very like what

ishan and and and shiram calls like intelligent defi uh that we're quite excited about but there's also ZK TLS which is you know just being able to prove any like um arbitrary data from internet to uh to contracts on ethereum or anywhere else really to be able to improve applications so I see that as like um there's two categories where you can do a lot of things offchain that is improving um improving just general um General infrastructure but also applications as well like you can get way more data uh way more cheaper and more efficiently so the end game is pretty cool like I think there's even things of abss that we probably haven't figured out yet like that was a joke of

like self-driving abs like like maybe maybe it's actually makes sense right like you were testing that you've done something right for this for the sake of society so there's like a huge um I think it's a bigger movement than people think yeah yeah my my I I I agree with everything you said Alton um my also a couple of more things that I want to say is like some things you cannot do with a blockchain you just you cannot create a fast fayer on a blockchain because it has to settle sorry like on an L2 because it has a settle back so it just doesn't work so there's stuff that you cannot build on on on an L2 or blockchain that you can build with abss you're not really Bound By Any VM that you have to roll you can just write any kind of code you can just write Java and

have a credible commitment that you can provide on ethereum and then you can just roll with it so time to Market is just way way way faster um with abss and this is going to get faster as we as we process because the devx is being worked iel is a is a great place to be and something that you cannot absolutely cannot do on any kind of objectively um objective verification is what igen token is doing just like I told you about right so we don't know if if an L2 Forks we don't know the canonical chain but by using layer you can actually have a system that can have social consensus on the service that you're running and that is the that is the reason why we

wanted to also be on IG um because of this all new innovation that is coming from igay ecosystem um I'm very very excited about I'm this is like one of the I've been in this industry for a while um and this is like I believe that this is one of the zero to one um innovations that I've seen in in quite some time than defile was one um al2 were were the other one sharding was one and I think this reaking and um just generally running whatever you can offchain and having credible commitments on on chain is is very very exciting as a developer myself awesome guys thank you for coming

on it's a pleasure thanks for answering my questions and putting together the slides and um great work likewise man thanks for having thanks for having us thank you