Why crypto may be the biggest financial opportunity in a lifetime: Dan Tapiero

Transcript

GM good morning welcome to the milk Road show The Daily crypto show where we make crypto insights as accessible as asking can AI do that for me I'm your host Jay Hamilton and today we are joined by the one and only Dan tapiero founder CEO CIO managing partner of 1rt Partners and 10t fund they've invested in over 20 crypto companies deployed over 1.5 billion they're the only grow stage investor that is exclusively focused on block chain and crypto and Dan is also a renowned macro investor with over 25 years of experience investing in various markets gold and we'll we'll talk about it all today we're going to talk about

we're gonna get Dan's view on macro where are we at in the macro cycle right now what matters most we're also going to talk about Dan's thesis uh about why crypto market cap is going to go to 50 trillion in the next 10 years that's a 30X from today everybody and then stick around to the end because we're going to touch on Dan's predictions for this cycle for BTC East soul and total market cap before we jump in and hear from Dan everybody do me a favor please subscribe or like this Channel Wherever you're listening YouTube podcast it really helps out so much it makes such a difference for the show now let's jump in Dan welcome to the milk Road Show hey great to be here I think this is my my first time so we didn't do any

preparation so I just said we're g to Commando it whatever happens happens oh I love it I love the attitude and the willingness to just do it uh let's let's start with look your your job for the past several decades has been to think about the future of markets and economies to be on The Cutting Edge to see things before the rest of the world does and do and to do that while assessing risk and reward and then make smart decisions with how to deploy Capital now right now we're in a very interesting time a time that we have never really been in before uh before we talk about

crypto and AI I just want to get your your view on the current macro setup where are we in your mind in the macro cycle right now well let's talk first about I mean the recent change in the US government um I think it's you know you can talk about nuances in monetary policy on the Fed side liquidity Etc but the reality is we've just had you know I don't want to call it a shock a huge positive shock to the system but uh it's sort of the most dramatic change on the political side that I can recall certainly in my lifetime um you know forget even you know forget even talking

about crypto I think almost overnight we've installed a super progrowth Pro capitalist Pro business uh government that um is doing some things that we've never even seen before I mean don't want to spend the whole time talking about this but in my life I don't even remember anybody talking about cutting the budget defic uh maybe do lip service paid but uh no one even talked about it and now they're doing it and Elon is shutting down you know whole chunks the government I think it's fantastic uh every day we get a list of other things that are wasteful

that the government is doing transgender bathrooms in Colombia you know uh a Dei Opera in El Salvador I mean these are the craziest things ever I mean I can't even you can't even believe they're real uh that US taxpayer has been paying for this kind of stuff so rationalization of the US government I think is medium ter massively bullish you know Capital will start flowing to more productive areas uh productivity explodes I think unemployment goes up because you're G to fire a lot of state workers and state connect people connected to uh receiving revenue from the government but I think

you know they get retrained I think um the Federal Reserve will have to lower rates to offset some of that fiscal contraction so I know this is not the ensus view now I also think that the US by doing this and a bunch of other things is now light years ahead of the rest of the world Europe is at Brussels is not going to start cutting back on on their bureaucracy I mean there's just zero chance and you had Bernard know last week say he's just come back from America he couldn't feel more bullish he can't believe the positive spirit in the air and then he says France needs to rationalize and cut back on its government bureaucracy I mean I I I I look if he can make it happen

that's wonderful um but I just don't see France heading down that path and then you look at Asia and China is in a my Asma they've got real estate problems leverage problems you can't trust your Investments there uh you make an investment maybe it's your money maybe it's not I think there's going to be massive capital inflow into the US um and that will lead to a strong dollar that will also force uh or pressure the FED uh to cut interest rates I I see inflation um dropping or staying steady here at this 2% or lower level I understand inflation is is going up in you know for super high-end homes and

Yachts and all that kind of crap but the reality is is that General inflation the measures the CPI core PC deflator all these things the FED looks said I don't think you're going anywhere so we have a positive fiscal shock and I don't mean fiscal spending it's gonna be a contraction it's going to lead to layoffs uh it might lead to a little damper in liquidity but remember this the short rate is at four and a half percent okay this Market is at all-time highs all right the gold market is at all-time highs Bitcoin is at alltime highs and

the two-year is at four and a half all right so I think with a stronger dollar tighter fiscal policy uh we're going to see rates go down to offset and I think that's going to be massively bullish for stocks um and for Nasdaq and for uh for Bitcoin and and crypto generally so I don't know if I've answered your question but that's sort of my framework I know a lot of people in a dollar Bear Camp for whatever reason Scott Bess treasury has said he wants a weaker dollar I I don't I don't see how that happens given the rationalization that is uh being

executed on the federal level federal government level and who knows maybe after elon's done with the federal government maybe he starts going to the states maybe we got to get into California New York and start chopping there like who knows what'll happen if we get to rationalize those places right yeah I think you you had a great tweet the other day that I just want to pull up uh which I think really captured well your sentiment right now which as you said uh finally the real Revolution arrived the last week there are decades where nothing happens and there are weeks where decades happen this is a Lenin quote this obviously ushered in the evil Soviet nightmare that lasted six years what you're saying is Imagine

now that we could have a golden American era for so long yeah I mean you know I I okay that's a little bit of Hyperbole and it sickens my stomach to quote lenon but and that that quote is attributed to lenon it isn't necessarily they don't know for sure but the point is that you know he did know something about Revolution and it does feel to me like a quiet positive Revolution we have younger people in there out with the crony you know Schumer Pelosi old you know Boomer you know I I just the the the my Asma that we've been in really Biden I mean it's just been terrible and now all

of a sudden energy I mean you've got Elon sleeping in a cot in the Oval Office or wherever he is in the Doge building he's got they say those you know six artist you read that on Twitter six artist programmers completely yeah reprogramming the government I mean you're smiling everyone's smiling we've got the smartest you know most successful people in the country finally in the government Scott bessent who I've known you know for over 25 years extremely talented guy one of the top macro thinkers and investors you know certainly of his generation we've got him at treasury uh we've just started a

sovereign wealth fund that they say is going to be five trillion I mean you want a guy like Scott Bon you know managing that or at least appointing someone to manage that we've just never had such competence and so I think that's what guys like me are excited about like I was you know over the years as you mentioned 25 years working for some of the great investors Julian Robertson and Stan brck and Miller you know Steve Cen and I was you know forced to be on my game 247 for years and years and years and um when you work uh with that caliber of people you know you see uh other parts of the economy where the caliber people is not as high and

the government is just has always been a very obvious place at least in my lifetime I mean at least since Reagan you know and again I think there was some good done under W people debate that but so I I I I really think you've got younger people Tech focused we're going to we're GNA put the entire government on the blockchain voting should be on a blockchain you know we're going to digitize everything out there transparency um you know I I just people are energized and I I haven't seen I don't know about you but i' I've never seen people so energized about government um we got the most successful

business person potentially in history who yeah is on his free time deciding that he's all that free time that Elon has right well I mean he's obviously one of the greatest allocators of time ever you know he has teams at all these various companies and he's got to be one of the great leaders and managers of all time period I mean how do you even do one tenth of one of those companies you know I I I don't know and we have that guy leading the charge we've got Sachs in there on the crypto side we have all the people that they're bringing in all of these smart Tech guys I think it's

I mean how could you not be just the most excited that you've ever been and if you don't think the stock market's going to follow that it's crazy of course it is my concern would be that we are really going to blow away everybody else by such degree we're going to create massive Global imbalance Europe and Asia don't have a chance uh at you know given this you know configuration of events given the people we have if you if you just look at our team versus their team I mean CH China's got an old guy X who was a a communist and uh is for centralized command I mean that's we're going

completely the opposite way decentralized right open source will always win so I just you know you want have some concerns um I could be wrong about the dollar I know a lot of people think it's going to enter bare phas but feels to me like if you're a capitalist business person this is this is where you want to be and we could get this insanely super strong dollar you know sort of like in 85 you know we had the Plaza Court to weaken the dollar but that was after it exploded um I'm feeling like that's that's about to happen and you know or like in 99 when we had all that Capital rush in because we had the NASDAQ bubble

I don't know just feels to me like what could be better I I like I gota I don't even believe it's real sometimes right I don't know how you feel about this but I wake up and every day like oh my goodness there's all this news it's hard to keep track of and then you throw AI on top of it and it's 10x hypercharge right yeah yeah yeah it feels it certainly feels different right now it feels there's an optimism there is a sense of energy that we have not had in a long time and I think people are missing the I mean what really stood out to me was at Trump's inauguration I've said it before on the show it was I don't think people realize how big of a

deal it was that he was surrounded by all these Tech billionaires and not surrounded by his Governors and so that is a huge shift that we've never seen before and every single person especially the younger generation is well aware of the fat that the government has and we all complain about it and we all know I didn't grow up dreaming about wanting to be in government I grew up dreaming to want to be in business that's what I wanted to be and that's what whereas I think if we go back to previous generations being in government and being politics wasn't an admirable thing was an exciting and ambitious thing and so I think there's a there's there's a shift happening right now that you can't underscore I I I don't have the the the the macro insight

to to break down the dollar and I think I I'm certainly there is a a lot of people calling for a lower dollar a lot of people calling for a lower dollar only guy right now I you know you feel like the only one that's not yeah and I've been a dollar bear before but I changed my view when I saw that what they were going to do on the fiscal side was real and again people who have doubters and say oh they'll never be able to get it through Congress they'll never this they'll never that I mean day one Trump signs 200 different things we got a sovereign wealth fund there's no they're just pushing ahead to do what's best for the country and the only people really complaining are these extreme

leftwing guys who got left out in the cold you know the camela and the you know the Schumer and the fear of I don't know what like do you wanna if you're an investor do you put your money with Elon or do you put your money with Schumer I mean it's it's like a prosterus question really and I think that you know what their voice is it's time for them you know it's finished and you know what the Democratic party will reform it'll it'll uh it'll you know figure out find its way this is a democratic system and their ideology is bankrupt and the younger people of that party will figure that out they'll adjust they'll pivot I mean you know I love that picture from

uh that they put up on Twitter X that was who was it it was Trump uh Kennedy Elon and then someone else and it said 20 years ago they were all Democrat Democrats right I mean that's hysterical I mean that's not the case with me but I thought that was hysterical the Republican Party reinvented itself to uh be in I guess you know in line with what the Zeitgeist of the country was the Democrats are gonna have to do the same thing and so it's just a natural process uh I think that's what's great about our system you got winners you got losers and then you have to adjust as long as you adjust you'll be

fine in the end right well and that's always been America's greatest skill is the fastest at adjusting the fastest at changing course you mentioned Asia and Europe they're much slower and I was gonna say they're dead right like they are real scary position and then and then you adding crypto and the ability to as you said where are you going to put your money if you're employing Capital you're going to put in US tech you'd be crazy to put it anywhere else and now us crypto I mean yeah I think you know we've got coinbase which is the only real large public crypto blockchain web three digital asset whatever you want to call company and I I've been saying there's no chance that within the I've been say before the

election within the next five years that there won't be you know many many more public C cryto blockchain businesses and now I think they're going to make it a priority in this Administration so we have of our 23 companies we have 12 uh that are American I think you know I know saxs is talking today I'm not sure what he's gonna say but I think there's going to be a real effort to get some of these bigger companies that we own that are making hundreds of millions in Revenue to get them public to give the public the ability to have exposure because look uh as you mentioned the beginning of the show when I first uh started or had the idea for the fund in the middle

of 19 the space the entire digital assd ecosystem was worth 300 billion that was the value of Bitcoin all the altcoins and then all the equity in the space and I said well I think within 10 years we can hit 10t uh which is 10 trillion but no one will believe me that that was my view that we could 30X in 10 years so I said I'm going to put that view into the name my fund now here we are four years later fund launched in January 21 the first one and here we are and we're at 5T today so we're five trillion that's the value of Bitcoin all the alts and and and the and the equity and I just put out on Twitter like T is an

anachronism the whole Space looks nothing like what it did in you know the middle of 19 or 20 and I'm thinking over the next 10 years we can hit 50 T 50t would put Bitcoin at a million right 10x roughly I think you said 30X but it would put Bitcoin at around a million and I've not made this call before and people on Twitter were like you know damn that's a bull market for ants in crypto 10x and 10 years I'm not very good on a like maybe on a one year two year you never know what can happen 10 years 20 T to bitcoin I think another 10 t for the alts and the The Venture projects I think look eth and Solana are

core assets but everything else is still sort of venture and then I think we're going to have a massive market for the companies that grow up uh on and around you know the digital ass ecosystem whether you call it web 2.5 to three or whether we call it web 4.0 which is kind of the AI agentic blockchain world I don't even know what that's going to look like but if I start to add those numbers up I think 50t is very reasonable so our next fund our fund five which we're launching uh now I think it's that's just the appropriate name for it there you go it's just you know one art one round table Partners uh will raise that fund and I just think um

I'm not even being so hyperbolic there it just it just like feels the same to me as it did in mid 19 that that's a realistic Target right has there ever has there ever been a time in your career where you have felt that there is such a obvious future for a new tech like crypto no I mean there's never ever been anything like this I think you know if you wanna compare for for for value and money um you know I I always say that the uh inent the internet was the digitization of ideas and information and uh blockchain Bitcoin crypto that is the

digitization of value and money so what's what's changed for me in in recently and certainly for this next fund that we're going to invest is that the onchain economy has gone vertical in the last six months and it's not just meem coins and it's not just you know everyone is like you know people who aren't in the space they're like oh well what's the use case well you know people who don't even own Bitcoin they're like oh well there's no use Chris I'm like well you know the revenues that are accumulating now in Define the decentralized financial world the number of mobile wallets they're up like hundreds of

percent from a year ago that's the thing is I've never seen anything go so viral so quickly uh I don't think there's ever been a revolution in money in value like this I mean if you go back you want to go back to like caveman times right um you know you talk about trading beads and then you talk about the introduction you know maybe of metals and then you've got silver and then you got gold in Roman times you know then you had gold all the way throughout the Middle Ages Etc you know then you had big gold finds in America you know out west in the 1850s all that but nothing that has been a complete it's

like uh it's not just a change it's like an entire universe is growing up independently on its own outside of the existing macroeconomy right it's not uh another Financial product like bonds or stocks or Commodities or Metals this is something completely different programmable money M like smart contracts blockchains with embedded smart contracts like that's an insane concept uh if you talk to anyone in their 60s or any of the people who actually manag giant rules of capital I

mean I would say probably fewer than one% even know what that means of those people so I think it's still very early in this ETF has probably bought brought some traditional fund managers into crypto I would say but I don't really think they yet sort of understand the power of the decentralized financial world uh and the power of of blockchain and the network and The decentralized Ledger and all of those you know unbelievable things is and the the the tough thing is is when you have a a tech like this this early it's it has such broad use so many

use cases so much product Market fit that doesn't even exist yet that we don't even know about yet that it it makes it very difficult to wrap your head around what is the what is the area that you are most excited about right now short term is it is as an old time macro guy one of the things that you know I think could catch on more than it has but but I was always looking for was this takeoff of in rwas you know real world acet tokenization and it just the whole traditional world just cries out uh the the the the value that exists in the analog world cries out for

a single you know platform a decentralized platform where all things of value can be traded with each other and I think the illiquidity that exists in real estate uh that exists in I mean okay just think about anything that you own in the world out there that's not not fungible that's IL liquid that's difficult to move uh someone has got to figure this out I mean I you know we have a great investment in figure Mike Kagney who's founder of Sofi he is you know making some strides in this space uh securitize is another company doing something a little different Ando is

another company doing something a little different in that space but it's still like the first batter of the first inning if I were like in the trafi space and stuck at some bank somewhere I don't know it would be so painful but you know you're under 30 or 35 you're stuck at a bank I would figure out how to transition into working into that area I just think that if you're a traditional person it makes so much sense and I wonder if the government is going to start incentivizing businesses to not that they need to I mean I believe in you know private markets taking care of business but I mean look how much of a hdin the government was in the last you

know four to six years I mean it just six months ago you know many of my companies were getting sued by the SEC and six months from now I could probably there probably a bunch of that are going to be Public public I mean just think about how crazy that changes so there might be like a marshal not a Marshall Plan there might be a you know I don't want to call it a crypto Marshall Plan that's not exactly right but um I think the current Administration is getting great advice uh from its advisory Council Advisory board on blockchain crypto and I think they really understand its value

and the potentially even I don't want to get into this today but like geopolitical value of being the dominant player uh on the blockchain whatever you think that means and so maybe there are incentives even I mean uh we've got incentives across the economy we've got A5 trillion dollar Sovereign wealth fund now you know why can't you put a few percentage points of that into you know companies that are in this space it'd be very easy to do that right so to me it's clearly the future I've never seen anything this big I think you

said it perfectly when you said that it has such wide application that we can't even fathom across the economy all the different ways that it's going to change the future and I mean I just tremendously exciting so I'm not only is it exciting to you know to see this government at work but to be in the most exciting area in my view um and and and to have and and for everybody listening to this who is a lot of are just retail right to have access to this before a lot of the institutions got here and before it's it's we've

never seen that institutions are very slow I mean I have four or five Institution investors in my fund that are large you know Pension funds but for the most part 99% of them you know 98% of just no no but you know what if the US Sovereign wealth fund decides it wants to put 2% into the space broadly not just Bitcoin 2% of five trillion I mean you can do the math you know it's 100 billion that's probably something coinbase is only worth 70 billion today yeah you could probably coinbase is only worth 70 billion right now what's what's what's your what's your prediction I

think it's I think it's you know my old friend Raul pal at the GMI report uh came out recently and said coinbase is gonna go to 1,200 this year so it's 300 now 1200 that's a Forex so I guess he's thinking 280 billion this year think that's a bit much I I I think it probably could hit 150 um I think long term why why you know there's there's no reason it can't be a 5500 billion dollar plus uh company but then I think you got great other companies you've got Kraken you've got Circle um you know eoro has announced that they're going to go public got

figure which I mentioned then you've got you know other companies like figment and quick Noe and uh there are a lot of of Gemini uh a lot of uh great companies Ledger Anoka I don't know why all those guys aren't public um eventually those are real businesses making real revenue and if I were the head of the NASDAQ I'd want all them on the NASDAQ and then you create your NASDAQ crypto blockchain equivalent right yep and you have an index I mean that's what I mean if I were in the the catbird seat managing that Sovereign wealth fund just makes sense

to me right it one thing that's that it stands out to me right now is one I am talking my book of course but that's the only book that I can talk like if I weren't talking my book I mean if I don't if I believe in it uh I'm invested in it right I I you're you're long and loud as you should be and loud and you know if I'm wrong I take full responsibility and if I'm right I take full responsibility and that's just the way it's been my whole life and so you know uh I wonder if so I just caveat that go ahead I'm sorry that's okay you know what's funny is just thinking about

you bringing up R pal is H I wonder if you know reel's going to be he's going to be the the the bull always like he's always got the big predictions you he's been right Lots especially with exponential Tech he big point I mean come on he's he's been fantastic but but it's interesting for me to think about and you you're you're you're also not shy to be a bull but you tend to be a little bit more conservative I wonder if the strategy might managing a portfolio and I've got lots of risk on I'm sitting with 1.5 billion of exposure and you know I don't I'm not a newsletter writer I'm not a Salesman I'm a portfolio manager right

and I'm a I have fiduciary responsibility for the Investments and I report to my LPS and I'm not a pie in the sky guy I you know we spend months and months doing diligence and research and then I make an investment and we as a team you know I mean we really do a lot of homework and thankfully we passed on you know hundreds of deals in the past few years we passed on FTX three times we passed on Celsius we passed on FTX three times yeah because it didn't make sense on a lot of uh from when you really done did the the Dig I'm sorry the Deep you did course we did there are

things that stood out that just any person I mean and they were really simple things I mean I don't want to talk about it now because it's two three years ago who cares it's finished and now we're in a great period but when you have a guy come to you who's 30 years old and he says his company's worth 30 billion and it's 50 times revenues multiple and there's only one person on their board one okay and that person is his dad you're thinking uh you know what maybe this is a past right yeah forget about all the other things that we uncovered in our diligence that alone was enough to push us off so you know anyway you got to do a lot of work in

this space because there are a lot of you know fraudulent not a lot there are fraudulent actors it is a little wild Westy and I think these companies that we own that are marking names that are making a lot of money bringing them public and getting that validation is going to do a lot to clean up some of the you know nefarious uh actors in the space because because I mean yeah TX was several years ago but the impact of that is still being right especially and you would get this better than anyone we I said off the top that you're the only Fund in the world that is a exclusively focused on

crypto in grow stage investing there is now there were more F growth funds that were doing it pre FTX but they all left right and there were there were traditional growth guys maybe they'll come back you do have the VCS who end up doing their prata and they'll do their you know in their in the later rounds like andrees will move and ktie H will move into growth but they do tons and tons of venture you don't really do Venture um you know that's not really our our Focus um so yeah I mean unfortunately FTX he really crushed a lot of the traditional growth investors who were beginning to you know dip their

toe into the space um you know 50 billion hundred billion doll growth investors Tech investors who now you know then who who swar it off so I mean literally in the last 18 months there really has only been maybe one or two growth deals I mean Phantom recently just had a a growth round but I think in the next 18 months we're going to see quite a few more and that's why um you know it's time really for us to raise our our next fund which is actually going to be very different from our previous for funds but I'm hoping that you know we'll have some growth deals again to invest and I I do suspect we do

in the coming year so yeah I want I want to shift gears slightly here Dan uh I want to go to uh to to your thoughts on us the the majors and how you how you think about the majors and I got to start with eth because uh you put out a tweet just the other day uh when did you put this up Jan 31st you put this out he said too much hate for ethon X break of 4200 will double to 8K this year what's what's your thought on on ethereum right now so look uh I think it's at a high price now and it's the kind of thing where look it's a core asset in the space uh you know it's developed it's already achieved Network effect I think

Bitcoin and eth are different from all the other cryptocurrency salana is now probably you know should be included in that bucket it probably will be by the end of the year but you know it's had 10 years of track record you know people forget this thing was trading at like a $100 for years 200 300 2,000 3,000 these are very high prices and okay maybe some people say especially on X they've gotten lazy you know the layer twos have sort of carved off a chunk of their revenue possibilities you know eth has huge mind share huge number of developers developing on E if you're not

evm compatible you're kind of just you're kind of like dead in the water and it's also a little more grown up I mean salana I think because they've attracted so much activity through the meme coins kind of keep some of the more traditional people away the eth ETF is going to be the next thing that you know the massive number of people who bought Bitcoin eth I'm sorry Bitcoin ETFs they're going to buy eth ETFs and I think the investors in the US who are familiar with technology I think they're more drawn to the programmability the ease of programmability uh on eth and there are so I think Tech investors in the US as

well sort of see eth is a more productive Bitcoin which look it's neither here nor there I'm not really a technology investor per se like that I just see it as a core asset and maybe they've been lagging behind maybe the narrative you know their narrative Thumpers the people out there thumping for eth of you know they're disappointed because they've underperformed but this is all short-term trading action stuff it's like so my guess is what happens with e is it sits there and consolidates between you know 2600 and 3500 and it just goes sideways and every single person gets frustrated

and bored and this and that and then we wake up one day you know on a day like the day after Thanksgiving and it's up 40% for some reason you know or the US Sovereign wealth fund decides it's going to put a little bit into eat I mean you have to in a way like I don't want to say ignore the noise on Twitter because because some of the noise is interesting but um the reality is you have a lot of really young inexperienced people managing money investing and trading in this space and markets all behave the same way markets are markets you know whether it's gold or the S&P or NASDAQ or Bitcoin or

whatever and they have a certain emotional uh patterns and it just feels and after trading for years and years and years markets end up feeling a certain way and I can just feel people's pain and E even though it's doing fine like that Wick yesterday that it wiped out below 2,000 announced back in 2800 just it was just so painful you could see people were probably and that's the kind of pain markets markets are built to exert on people and so it's going to Nash around I think that's the word and it's going to create

uncertainty and people are going to give up and they we're gonna wake up one day and there'll be some little tweak that happens or somebody will say something or there'll be some little Innovation or something new will be introduced or maybe theic you know gets involved and you know tweaks something or consensus or whatever I have no idea um but what I know is also that you know markets markets always disappoint try to disappoint the greatest and exact the greatest amount of pain on the greatest number of people and that is how markets work yeah and essentially thankfully for for me having suffered

many losses over my career over many years and thankfully having come back as well um you know uh We've structured a portfolio for ourselves that is able to withstand some of the vagaries some of the the the bare markets and some of the the um the price action that can really be diabolical this is by far the hardest Market to trade that I've ever seen or ever been involved I mean you can't and that's part of the reason why we don't we don't really trade into companies that have cash flow that are not going to go under and that aren't going to go down 90% over three

you know three to four years yeah it C it certainly feels I mean as as you said everyone gives up at the worst time in markets that is that is the way it goes that's how markets work and it certainly feels that way for eth right now that the sentiment is so bad and so down that it actually kind of makes me bullish right now longer way the better yeah you know it's hard to deal with it you're sitting long but the longer it goes on Sideways for months and months and it needs to also not Rally when you think it should rally so we should get a bunch of good news and the market won't

and the market should not Rally then you get people really like screaming you know oh my goodness eth got a great piece of news and it's still didn't move and then people really give up and then it doubles yeah that's just markets it's not even eth or anything special Bitcoin does the same thing well we bring up Bitcoin before we let you go Dan I know we got to wrap up here uh what are your thoughts on bitcoin and soul the other two majors for this year yeah I mean I've been I've been thinking Bitcoin is going to go up to 150 to 180 for the last 18 months or so and it's just you know I I think at 3x from 2021

Peak the 2021 Peak was at 20K and I'm sorry the 2017 Peak was 20K you then had a big bare market and then you went up 3x from the previous Peak so then you hit around 60 this time uh the peak in 21 was around 60 or call it 70 whatever I'm calling it 60 and then you should 3x again from that previous Peak which I think is about 180 so I've been on record saying I think 180 is a good number uh again I mentioned rul just because I saw him a few days ago he sees 350 there are a lot of guys out there more positive I think Novo at galaxy has a bigger number um I think 180 is just fine and uh you

know salana probably can double from here too but look I I think what's different about this cycle is that again I I actually think we're going to see a lot of these larger companies uh going public and again I am speaking my own book but that's something that hasn't happened that with this new Administration you know being really and and a new sec I think they're really gonna be making some effort to make this happen and and and what's what's the impact of that it well I think it creates this idea that if you're starting uh want to start a business and in the space that you you know have potentially uh an exit into

the public markets that you could um that the the regulatory framework is positive there are legitimate businesses you see I think it legitimizes the space um it helps adoption um and you know it does a lot to bring over traditional people into learning what this is about because everyone owns stocks I mean that's why the ETF was great because everyone has a stock account and so overnight if you actually wanted to you could buy this Bitcoin ETF but that has actually nothing to do I mean the the you really should be you know have a digital wallet you should be able you should be you

know uh interacting with dii you should be doing a lot more than just having you know that's great we have Financial exposure through the Bitcoin ETF but you're not really engaging with the technology and that's what's a like a phenomenal thing in a Wonder but people who buy the Bitcoin ETF that's the first step then they learn and then they buy some eth and then they try to figure out what eth is and then you're like wait a second this is programmable money like what is that stable coins our waas you know D all these ideas that are more venture really bring people into the space I mean stable coins you have over 10

trillion dollars that were settled last year on stable coins five years ago it was zero so I think people want to engage and be involved in an area that's really growing like that and there are many areas of the economy that are stagnating in the old world and I I think having businesses that are public just Inc encourages people from the traditional world normies to actually dig in deeper yeah so it's an exciting time exciting time most most exciting I can recall yeah yeah Dan appreciate you joining us today and

giving us your time excited to uh to watch the 50t launch and your next fun uh and really really appreciate your guidance today thanks again my pleasure any time thanks for listening in everybody have yourselves a wicked awesome day we'll see you again tomorrow as always if you liked today's episode please hit subscribe and make sure you follow us so you don't miss out on the next one there's also a link in the description to our free five minute daily newsletter where we simplify crypto for you while making you laugh and if you're willing to step up your crypto investing game we're going to also leave a link for milk Road Pro you get access to our portfolio where you

can see exactly what we are buying this is your number one resource to help you invest successfully in crypto one final note this show is for educational purposes only and nothing we say is financial advice investing in crypto or any asset is risky and you should never invest more than you can afford to lose thanks so much for listening in my friends have a wicked awesome day