What's crypto lobbying ?

Transcript

Hi everyone. Just checking if this working. Yes, perfect. So, my name is Claire Balva. I'm the general manager of Adan, which is the biggest professional association in the crypto sector. And today I want to talk about crypto lobbying uh and why it's important. And actually, when I was hired at Adan, to be honest, um I was a bit afraid to take the job uh because for me lobbying was kind of a dirty word. And I think it's still a dirty word um to the general public um but also to politicians, for example.

Um so, here you have two quotes of actually two famous crypto opponents. Uh it's a dirty word because lobbyists are supposed to be representing uh private interests, private economic interests, and influencing politicians to do something against the general public's interests. Uh so, this is why lobbyists are often seen as bad people. And as you may know, crypto is also a bad word. So, when you are a crypto lobbyist, it's kind of uh double shot for you. So, you are working with in crypto, which is a a sector that has a bad reputation, and you are a lobbyist, which is also a dirty word.

So, uh it was difficult for me to, you know, endorse this kind of uh of reputation. Um but the truth is, I had been working in the crypto community for about 10 years. And I also know that lobbying is a dirty word within the crypto community itself. Because um Bitcoin was built on, you know, some kind of distrust or suspicion towards centralized um entities. Um and for part of the crypto communities, working with the state, working with regulators, is already some kind of betrayal.

Because you are accepting KYC, you are accepting laws. Uh and many, for example, Bitcoin maximalists, but in general many crypto maximalists are seeing this as, you know, something bad, uh something that is um well, betraying the original DNA of the crypto world. So, you have here a a quote of Julian Assange who who said, "Bitcoin is inherently anti-state." So, when you are working with the state, you are already not fully embracing the crypto spirit. So, as you can imagine, when you are doing crypto lobbying, it feels like the general public and politician are you know, seeing you kind of badly, and the crypto people for whom you are doing lobbying are also um hesitating to trust

you. But the hard truth is, well, if you're not advocating, someone else will do it for you, or actually, someone else will do it against you. And many centralized institutions, I'm talking of course about central banks, um but also private banks, and mostly the state, are already advocating for their own survival. And they have the influence to do so, they have the power to do so, and they have the money to do so. So, whether you are here or not, they're going to talk about you.

And the only question is, will you be at the table to defend yourself or not? And if you're not at the table, well, actually, you'll be on the menu anyway, and what will be decided will mostly be even harder for you. So, the question is, what do you do? The first step in lobbying is actually um bridging the knowledge gap, so helping people understand what you do and what is crypto. And I remember this scene in the French Senate in in 2018. It it has It's been better now, but uh you who you whom you meet understand

what you do, they will probably vote better regulations and better laws. Yeah yeah. Just to add something, I when I started 10 years ago, um I had created my own consulting company, and the first thing that we did was uh crypto training sessions for companies. Uh so, it was in 2015, 2016. And I thought, "Okay, this is going to last a few years, you know, but in 2018, 2019, people will have understood, you know, what crypto is, and there will be no market for training sessions anymore."

Well, we are in 2026, and I keep doing it. Uh and I keep doing it for private companies, I keep doing it for regulators, for legislators. Uh and I feel like we're going to keep doing it for a very long time because our sector is becoming more and more complex. And let me add something. Actually, it worked both ways because uh I often hear this from uh crypto people uh "The politicians don't understand anything. They don't know what crypto is.

Uh they're incompetent. Uh they don't know what we do, etc." And it's it's an exaggeration, but part of it is true. And honestly, uh the other way works as well because uh for example, in in in the past months, I've heard a lot of crypto people saying, "What is Macron doing about security? You know, how does it work in France? What is the police doing?" But thing is, it's so much more complicated, and the truth is crypto people don't understand anything about how the state itself is working. And this is why uh people misunderstand each other because the politicians don't understand how the crypto work world works, and crypto people have no idea how it is to work with the state.

So, here yes, on the slide you see I I heard crypto people saying, "Okay, the GIGN and and Macron are managing those crypto security problems that we have in France." And the people uh who we meet at the Adan are actually from many many many different law enforcement institutions, security forces institution. Because they are institutions specialized by uh geographical area, um by topics. So, you have cyber entities, you have crypto special crypto specialists. You have the police, you have the gendarmerie, you have the ministry. So, there are many different entities. They all work together.

Sometimes they talk together, sometimes they don't talk to each other enough. But your job as lobbyists is to talk with all of them, helping them coordinate, and making sure that your issues are their top priority. And if you don't know how to talk with every of these institution differently and addressing their special perimeter, then you're not doing your job. And this is why lobbying is important. It's because the state is complicated, and you need people to address every small part of it.

So, now, let's say you have you understand how the state works. You have uh explained to the people in front of you how crypto works and what it is. Now, what do you do? Well, the second step is actually to prevent big problems. And this is an ungrateful part of the advocacy job because this is what people never see. Um most big problems are never released in the press. There are amendments or political projects that lobbyists can see and like kill in the egg, so that it is never known by the general public, and it is never known by the sector.

Um for example, here are actually two amendments that happened, one uh at the French level, so it was a tax law, and another one at an EU level. So, those ones were already released. But most of what you actually don't see are amendments that never come to the state of a real project and uh that are never written. And our job is to meet with politicians uh when they have an idea, they talk with us, and say, "Hey, I want to, I don't know, tax the swap between crypto and stablecoin." Let's say, or some something that is obviously a bad idea and that will create a huge mess in the sector, sometimes things that are not even feasible. And our job is to explain to them why it's not a a good idea, why

why they shouldn't make it an amendment. Uh and sometimes our job is also to find allies, so to go to administrations and to have the administrations explain to the politicians why it is a bad idea and why it is not feasible. So, prevent problems, but sometimes, of course, things don't go as planned. And you can't have it all, and sometimes things happen, and you wish they you wish they hadn't, but they're here. Uh and you need to adapt to them. So, the last example I have in mind here is that uh crypto exchanges need now need a double license, a MiCA license and a PSD2 license, payment institution license.

Um this is something that we fought against, and this is not something that we had wished for, but it is here. So, our job now is to talk with the national authorities and make sure that the process is smooth, that the process is efficient, uh and that crypto players uh will not die because of it, and that the the authorities will adapt to them, and they will offer something that is, yes, adapted to their business and to the timing of what is feasible uh in the real world. Okay.

Now, step three. Um yeah, naturally you see the good slides. Okay. Once you have prevented problems, explain to everyone what crypto is, you understand the state now, the real issue is how can you push innovative ideas, and how can you uh grow all together. And I'm taking the example uh for ADAN, we have 120 companies who are members of ADAN. Uh and it is sometimes hard to find a consensus with everyone. Sometimes it's super easy. For example, everyone wants uh lower taxes. Uh every everyone wants less regulation for themselves.

But sometimes interests get in conflict with one another. Two examples. Um sometimes DeFi protocols can have different interests from centralized players. Because everyone wants less regulation for themselves, but sometimes this means less regulation for everyone, but also sometimes it's also means more regulation for the others. And sometimes you have no choice. The regulators are going to come with more regulation, so the question is will the centralized exchanges be regulated, or will DeFi protocols be regulated? So, our job as a professional association is to get everyone uh around the table, and find the best consensus for the whole industry, for the users as well, because this is an important part of advocacy. We are not forgetting the

final users. And then when we come forward to the regulators and to the legislators, it it carries more weight. Our consensus then carries more weight. Uh a second example about this uh is the stable coins issue. Uh you do know there's a huge debate in the US at the moment about yields being distributed on stable coins by uh centralized exchanges. And we have the same debate in Europe, because most crypto companies want to be able to distribute interests on stable coins. But of course, some banks, not all of them, but some banks are lobbying against it.

And as a professional association, we have many different members around the table, and we need to find a consensus um amongst these different players. So, how do we do it? Well, actually, I I like to say that a professional association is a bit like a political party. So, you have a majority, sometimes a huge majority saying, "Okay, we want to be able to distribute yield on stable coins." And then the party will hold for the majority. But this also means that if you are an entity that has a membership at ADAN, sometimes you need to find allies. And there are different currents in the industry, and our job as a big association, it's like a big political party, is to find the best consensus amongst our different members. And then

this consensus, as we are a big association, will carry more weight when we present it to the the regulators and the legislators. Once you've done all this, now you are super ready and you can actually grow the pie for everyone. Um and I've had this debate at ADAN when I arrived, what is the end goal? Um the end goal, of course, is to grow the pie for the industry in itself, in Europe, and to promote the crypto industry. But I also like to think that our job is to grow the pie for Europe within the crypto industry. So, it's kind of a double job, and I think this has also more political weight to say

we want Europe to carry weight within the crypto industry. Uh we have American players who are members of ADAN, of course, and they are welcome. But the goal here is not to like represent foreign interests within Europe, it's also to make Europe a huge region within the crypto industry. And I think this is also what um speaks better with politicians, um because politicians want their country and their region to be super attractive. Uh and when we say we want crypto to grow in Europe, but we also want Europe to grow in the crypto space, um I see like the small light in their eyes, and this is what works.

So, thank you very much for listening to me. Um I'm here if you have any questions. Feel free. Hi. Hi. Um so, what happens when you opt in? Uh so, what happens when you as a company maybe have um two clients which we have like opposing um like direct conflict of interests? Do you kind of try to make them talk to each other, or do you maybe represent some side more,

or like more more DeFi than TradFi, or yeah, what's your That's that's a very good question. Um sometimes we have members who are in conflict on a topic that is not our business, you know, be this is competitiveness, and it happens all the time. But you are right, sometimes uh there are big conflict of interest between, I don't know, DeFi protocols and centralized exchanges. Um we the first thing we try to do is find a compromise. Uh usually the the good solution is a good compromise, and sometimes it's you know, you just have to think about what is logical. For example, uh we cannot regulate a DeFi protocol itself.

It just will never work. So, um usually the the conflict can be precise uh under very technical specific things, and this is what we are debating. So, um it gets easier and easier to find uh solutions to like technical issue. Um so, usually we we usually we manage it. It is very rare that we have a very big conflict that cannot be resolved. It happens sometimes, uh especially between banks and less regulated companies. Um but sometimes you can just say it, you know. Uh for example, with the stable coin yields, um most of our members, like the very large majority of

our members, want uh to be able to distribute yields on stable coins. So, we issued this this position. Um but we also said, "Okay, we have a few banks who are members who do not support this." And that that happens. And as I said, it's like in a political party. You have the party opinion, the party's opinion, the party's position, and then sometimes you have a few members of the party who say, "Well, I'm not super comfortable with this." It happens. Cool. Thanks. Any other questions?

I'm equal. Um how do you see the the public sector feeling and perception of of crypto evolving uh in the last months, for example? Um over the last months, it's a very short amount of time. O- over the last decade, it has improved a lot. Um over the last months, I would say it's getting better and better. A a few years back, you know, when Trump got elected, it was very difficult because crypto was associated with Donald Trump, which in Europe is not good at all.

Um now people are getting used to it, so it's it's a bit better, and they actually see that what happens is in the US is interesting from a regulatory standpoint. Uh so, they are curious, and they see that it's it's not only a Donald Trump thing. So, I think it's getting better and better, but to be honest, um if I go to a party and I say I work in crypto, people are still, you know, um half half, not not completely comfortable with it. And but but I see more curiosity uh than than problems.

Thank you. Um I just came back from another talk where we were talking about what EU can learn from US in terms of regulating crypto, talking about how in the US they're focusing on the problem, what they're trying to solve, and making it much leaner and simpler for companies. Whereas in the US or in the EU, we're kind of complicating by adding regulations on regulations. How do you see it from your side? Is there anything you're considering on how we can make it simpler?

No, no, I I totally agree with this, but it's uh it's a cultural issue that is not limited to crypto. And that's the problem. You you see the same things in AI, in any technological topic, in any topic, actually, not only technical ones. Um so, I I don't think uh the crypto sector is going to solve it by itself. Uh it's much more a cultural issue, and uh I I I think sometimes you need to like be very close to the wall to realize that there's a problem and change.

Um and we we saw that with the internet, we lost competitiveness. We lost a we lost a lot of competitiveness in Europe. Uh and I hope that at some point we're going to realize that the same is actually happening with the with crypto. Um and I I hope that we will wake up, but I'm doing everything I can to to prevent this, but yes, uh this crypto sector won't be enough. So, we need help from other sectors, from politicians. It's It's a cultural shift that we need to have in Europe.

I think this This is the end. Sorry, but we can we can talk right afterwards. Thank you very much, everyone.