What is The Polymer Labs New Direction? Rollup Interop Explained in Istanbul

Transcript

[Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] he bro we're live awesome great to be here it's good to meet you good to have you on the rollup yeah so for for anyone

who's who's not super familiar with with polymer um you guys are building an interoperability solution yeah um between Cosmos and ethereum actually uh we've kind of shifted Focus uh initially we're talking just posos in theor and now we want to be more rooll focused I guess you know good context with a good audience and uh still still talk ethere but not necessarily like be able to bridge between bosos or like I seen change or or dat chain whatever you want to call it ethereum its rollups but also between Roll-Ups themselves as well like that's kind of while going to be a major

Focus yeah so kind taking the the technology that was used originally to connect Osmos and ethereum and now adapting it so that it's General and flexible enough to kind of like plug in kind of like any network into any network in St old world where there's thousands of rollups and that seems where we're headed with like app chains I mean whether you're a prescriber to like this app chain thesis and you think you know we'll scale vertically layer two three four or the modular HS this and you think will just kind of like have like little plugins everywhere with different execution environments those I mean those are all going to be like these these kind of like siloed off environments

that have they take the trade-off of scalability over interoperability by going in this this more modular Direction um that's kind of what they're prioritizing scalability on the face of it and they're losing out on interoperability unless they have a solution that connects like all of these independent rollup worlds yeah maybe could you talk about like like kind of what that tradeoff means and then how you're able to almost like like how a Saving Grace for these rollups that have chosen scalability and now they don't have to make that sacrifice yeah I think so so I guess a lot of people when they think ofc they think of two things they think of like client better relay and

they think of sber ab chains or or the cosmos and I think for a lot of people all realize that IBC specification is flex one now for rollups uh whether they're see like sell rollups on on ethereum whether they're Sovereign rollups on a on a celestri any any flavor W can be adapted for using the iol and I think Palmer is kind of taking the initiative there to plze the IBC offering and this technology as an interoperability hub for these wups uh actually we're targeting e first we're trying to build I guess like ethereum's first IBC native uh inoperability H okay why is IBC different than a regular Old Bridge

yeah so when people think of bridges we've kind of done these kind of feature assessment so we kind of you know went down the list of features uh looked at all the different solutions IC is a messaging toal uh what people think of bridging they actually think of verification so like if if someone says uh war was a branch or you know some other Protocols of bridge they're thinking of that protocol as a verification ler um when they think of like a ZK Bridge did they actually what they actually talking about is I a ZK proof for verify the consensus or the execution of this chain and I clue that but they're not thinking out is what is the messaging standard that's overlaid on top of this verification there what I

mean by like I've spoken before about like IC being modular what I meant by that is the verification is modular so like how do you repres how you represent a blockchain from a verification standpoint can be modular whereas like obviously establish the common set of Mastery rules you know basic features like acknowledgements timeouts authentication and more and B features like relay syation uh application callbacks and so on there's not a lot of competition on the feature front when you look at IBC to all these other Solutions you look at a lot of these Bridges they don't have aing they don't have TS they don't Implement these features on behalf of the user they mostly just Implement some H verification me okay okay and this this adapts like Bridges and it's not just

the layer that sits on top it's like kind of like a bottomup solution that is this new new messaging protocol what kind of applications or use stations like are are now available because we're taking we're taking transactions that go cross chain from from verification to a more robust form of messaging yeah I mean like these various applic standards on PL obviously already you know we have interchanging accounts uh one number of other standard as well but I think what obviously gets right is the flexibility application cility uh if if you build an application on some of these Bridges you're you don't really have like any guarantees around if I send a message what if it's uh doesn't

get deliver like what what happens uh a lot of these implementations you expect that if I send something it'll always get delivered there's no like like timeout mechanism because usually if you want to transfer some asset you want to say uh I want to initiate a transfer but if it actually doesn't get there I need a way to to ex if that makes sense and you you you would have build it on top of IBC because there's a t Mech if like hypothetically if someone you got a decentralize system with this decentralized incentives and nine of incentives are supplied so you it's like submitting a transaction ethereum but not enough gas this kind of sentiment will no one's going to take it up uh in in that case at some point the user going want the money back be like oh well that's this transaction never went

through I want to be and and that's not possible in a bridge but it is possible with IBC well you would need timeouts in order to like have that part Cambo by the messaging protocol if that makes sense okay okay you can Implement that on top of a bridge if you want but then you're leaving enough to application to implement time out with NX on top of the bridging prot I feel like we talk about designing an operability protol there's like a tradeoff spe in bit for you uh do you like build very little and let the application build everything themselves like these like tantics I'm talking about or do you build a little bit more that you of like these like common features that are I say like consistent across uh I say like the problem of basic communication across whether it's

processes whether it's chains like regardless um the duty on behalf of the application so there's like this CH SP between liting to little a bridge imp meing uh maybe imp too much abs some point so so how do you guys reconcile that that of tradeoff like that there's like you're saying a healthy balance to strike in between like in shrining and I've seen youal speak about this too like how do you how do you balance how much to enshrine in the protocol but just how much to leave up to the up to the uh application developers yeah so uh I so what I like about IBC approach here is it it takes a common set of pictures so there's there's the IBC port or the quotequote transport layer and then this

these application features these application features are common across every single type of application most like for example like to transer very specific to a toal r that that without been used if you're doing governance or or some other about doing some other mechanism yeah well a lot of protocols I feel like talk about being like TCB well IBC transport feature said is model exact we have you get the same exact base feature set if that makes sense as a messaging c yeah so like and then both are inspired by the same problem right like both are inspired by the problem of you have two distant nodes whether like whether they're blockchain or not uh they're two isolated nodes in the network and they

need to be able to communicate uh basly where you're not en tell sure if the message will ultimately receive arrive at the destination or not and in the in the watching setting it would be depend on in sentence God this is on the internet works right it's on the internet works yeah so IBC works like the internet works a lot lot of other ququ saying to do that but they do not do that very cool do you want to name drop a couple As far as like what that plan to do that they don't oh I don't like to no I think everyone's working I think you don't have a hard problem um I yeah I'd rather not like yeah okay we'll leave that out um cool so like so like maybe we can we can dive a little bit deeper

um into like I I think what I'm really getting at is like what makes Palmer special relative to all the other interoperability solutions that are out there I mean there's so many bridges there's more and more messaging protocols that that are popping up yeah what is it that makes that makes Aller special yeah so uh we pivoted a bit uh this isn't haven't talked about this before but uh the idea is that we wanted to take IBC and we're we're thinking for a long time about how how do get feel I feel an alpha drop coming how do we get this technology into a theory uh and then initial coaches were like okay we'll have this C

sh an IBC we form an IBC connection of the the and then at some point we realize okay this IBC Connection in of itself is not enough uh so we pivoted from building a sovereign app chain to a role so we're we've put the cosmos SD on top of the op sta so we're combining this you know C sat developer experience with OP St we're working on a a pH worked for this as well but not I'll just talk about the interoperability now and the idea is that it would be the first interoperability Club focused on pure Tech I there are few other ports AUD but they're not focused curely on connectivity so I don't necessarily consider them inter Pub from a a definition perspective but the idea is that I all maintain connectivity to all these rollups while act as like the the

port city so like there's this article a few years ago uh C Hub is a p City and that's kind of my mental model model for Almer is Almer is a port city for etheria where all these different uh like country like the countri P like has six Nar port cities and Palmer is Port City representing all of them they connect the polymer and the Palmer is able to connect them to each other using ivanics with full ethereum seity because they use this ethereum consensus yeah to settle the transactions that are submitted to polymer yes and also in terms of the verification you're also using at least for the in the default base using a theum for verification so a lot of these existing Solutions if you look at the

PTP uh solutions that are available a lot of they use offchain some like they C Val set from verification uh if you look at a lot of the inoperability Hub Solutions like Axel War it's also what third party bodying Set uh Palmer is the first interoperability one it's interoperability Club so like it's the first interoperability club that inherit security from directly from ethereum not the restate it uh directly from ethereum for settlement out ethereum and it's the first up designed specifically for connect rollups and we're upstairs you're schooling me on based rollups and kind of like the generic rollups is there any differentiate like any differences when it comes to interop um between how you guys connect these

rollups like like I'll kind of refr reframe the the uh like the definition you gave about about base rollups which is basically that any any rollup that you uses uh the L1 to to sequence and several transactions as a base ruup yes there's other there's other rollups that may use a shared so consider they're still considered rollups but they're not a based rollup yeah okay now when it comes to interop is the interoperability solution between these rollups the same or is it you know it are they all able to inherit ethereum's consensus for security or is there is are difference between uh like the base rollups they're

able to inherit consensus because they settle onto ethereum but because these other ones are the shared sequencer maybe they aren't able to inherit the same security principles that a based W up is able to inherit I think we're talking about two different things so I think the security SE security of a r up to me is uh there's multiple factors but first Al you need to be able to verify the SE transition of that rup in this optimistic Cas is fraud or zity so this is what you when when you say verification something that we've been talking about for for you know since since we started here so when you're saying verification it's the verification of a state change yes when double transfers something and there

some change in balances in in the array of addresses on ethereum there's State a configuration of eth and all these tokens in different accounts that's a state call it state a someone makes a transfer it means that there's one balance goes up another balance goes down that's now a new state state B and there's a verification that takes place to prove that the transition from State a to State B is doubt verifi yeah okay so now that's separate from uh the sequencing problem so when when we talk about the sequencer whether you're using the L1 whether you're using a centralized sequencer whether you're

using a sh sequencer yeah you're talking about a spectrum between like less censorship resistant which would be using a centralized sequencer to more sensorship resistant which we be using the L1 um like sensorship resistance and like Security in my mind are like two different things like be able to proability and being able to uh have like Pro inclusion or have like have inclusion is is two separate things uh in terms of connectivity I would say that for a lot of protocols you sometimes will default to using the sequencers at a station as like a soft confirmation mechanism so uh in my mind if you were have a base roll up and uh I guess

compared to like a r that uses centralizer or shared sequencer the soft confirmation mechanism is going to be is going to it's going to vary so like the soft confir in the basical T would be ether itself with L1 uh the soft confirmation in the uh shs case would be the Shar c network which generally is yet another blockchain actually which is kind of funny all blockchains all the way down um and then the centralized signer model it would just be what one of that signature if it's the old signer op name the old sign it's so funny how like we started out in blockchain every like it was all monolithic yeah like a blockchain me that it had settlement uh execution

inclusion verification and everything was like built into n da all into this one stack yeah and now everything's just like unpacked like blown out and and like it it's it's been this sit all the time but like someone said it now I can't stop saying like this krian explosion where now it's like all this different like there's been so many builders that have came into the space and and it's allowed specialization to take place yep ethereum and these these alternative layer ones we're doing everything and now now we have like specialization um there's a project specifically for da there's two F just

one there's four or five yeah there will be more yeah yeah wow so so where do you think like kind of like forecasting you guys have made a couple a couple like expansions I don't even call them pivots because it seems like when you guys adopt your technology it's for the purpose of making them making thech more flexible and more General and it supports more of the ecosystem so it allows you guys to get like more General but also more specialized in the which I think is is very powerful um so so as we kind of like continue to see kind of like this proliferation and like more and more blowout of the industry yeah like what do you think happens like what do you think well how

do you think this impacts like new development that takes place on top of like the infrastructure as we see it today yeah so I think honestly the most important thing to me and the reason work is following is uh to help the industry scale I think the industry can will get scaling B neck in terms of the technology when there's too much fragmentation because we with this cambering explosion you get all flavors of different things and what that means is that if you don't have the unified API to access every G which is how I see IBC I see IBC as a unified API it distracts away all like the complexities is it a base full up is it a do it use a shared sequencer does that use centralized sequencer is it using like aing da8 and then recently talked about

using like a separate finality layer it's like okay now you can have reor resistance from yet another layer um da from another layer uh validity from another layer like we just keep breaking these conforms up but at the end of the day like the downstream uh you know maybe whether they like a centralized in uh like a you know like a bank or centralized chodan uh whether there's some sort of that TR to buil on top of this technology having this consistent API across the essentially essentially the entire decentralized web which I think that should be IC uh it is incredibly important for them to have development velocity and for them to be able to build things that they don't need to like on a per chain basis with the CH change you're going to have to maintain like 10,000 different

innovations that are like different in in many different ways and how is that stable it's not really uh it's just going to limit the growth of the industry exactly and and that's that I think in a nutshell puts the the problem statement like very clearly yeah because like reab came explosion leading to all of specialization but now everything is in a million different pieces it's so fragmented I mean almost like with without interoperability to connect all those pieces they're going to continue to exist we're not going to have connectivity and the same sort of user experience or development experience as we might have in a in a monolithic chain yes that's where you guys come in is like to connect all of these pieces together so that there is still a

seamless experience despite having a thousand different specialized Solutions and then what what I also say about there there are efforts you know by different ecosystems to come to come to standards but a lot of these standards are at the application L application Level stands are great you know like having a standard for like you know cling po that's great but developers need a standard AP to build on top of application standards them themselves like all more specialized to like a specific application we need uh like a lower level guy that's assisted which is like how the webs um all you know if you want to talk most of the web like most of the web speaks TC TCP so if you're able to speak that then you can connect

to the rest of the internet Conn in one API and you're interface with with the rest of internet without having to deal with like I know a million different private Nets and uh if we keep going down the path that we're going now apparently without some sort of consolidation we're getting into the world with the ton of fragmentation is ton of private Networks where beneath like maybe this a come set of like application standards but beneath the application standard there's like 15 different like developer apis with the same thing yeah and all them just going to implement things in a different way they're going to behave differently so like depending on you know even if you like Agate a message over like 15 different bus they all behave differently what are the actually guarantees it's the minimum of everything yeah cuz it the weakest link

is going to be your security uh fault Point yeah and and that's another thing that I like about IC as well is that uh contrary to like existing standards and I see a lot of Standards where you abstract over like many different Bridges with an application standard or like a token a token Center I I think it's okay I think you can build something like that but IV see has a property of fault isolation so in this like modular security world where like you know you have uh say like a fast P using like the sequencer for a solation you have a slow path where you're waiting out before full fraud window you're proving d8 uh you're proving the like the weight period uh as attested to by by by Sunshine you're proving these things and you want to attract over you

say that okay a token transferred over the fast path is actually not as secure as a token transferred over the slow path token transferred over the slow path is almost guaranteed to be fire like there's there's very little risk so like if someone is you know transferring a lot or like the is very B maybe you wanted like go with a slow pad with a fast they might use that for maybe not a to transfer maybe like a governance or something something big um and I I think it's really important to have fault isolation over nutrin I think that's something that IBC gets right okay so so when you say fault fault isolation yes so you isolate um the risks or the faults the the potential security vulnerabilities of slow path and isolate those to the slow path um but but a

better example is fast path because it has more fall vulnerability poal so you want to isolate that to only the fast path so that the slow path the people who prioritize safety security are not impacted by the potential risks of the fast path yes and so I say this last poty a lot understand connections and channels like they hear the names they don't have no idea what they mean all the way I think of it is when you you have a connection that establish a s security PR this connection is secured by x what is it secured by it's secured by a 7-Day optimistic fing mod that's one statement we can have another connection that's secured by the sequen signature obviously a lot weaker and these connections going reuse the cost any number Chan the Chan is

established on a per application basis so you're going need to establish a token transfer at Channel over the the slow path you can establish like a there like a governance application center we can establish that over the fast path you can establish these like multiple times and the same path can be used by multiple appli centers so when you establish an app it means that like nothing but that appli Center can reverse over that channel so the data flow and I think them as like uh highways in a sense so like uh like that like a connection is is the iin so maybe the slow path is is is the very secure Highway like and then the the fast path is maybe like slightly like it's a nice highway but you know

maybe the constrution is not the best and maybe it'll fall apart at some point um you have all these little Lanes is chadow that are formed across these IR you getting my analogy here and for each of these Shadows they we do do separate things but they don't overlap like you can't go from one Shanel to other you can't cross yeah the default isolation at the connection level default isolation at the channel level um so it's it's it's a very I say like thought fre design that that map really well through modular world when like every single one of these paths can actually behave differently has different wow almost like modular interoperability yes modular interoperability yeah yeah which is something that I'm I'm coming to realize now is like not not you know when when we think about

modul it's like okay it it's these modules but when we think about the connection there's like four there's like so many protocols that are like they've been in Nexus where they try to like connect everything and mod and it's like everything is connected into this one thing and it's the Nexus of of everything right and it's like it's like you have all these modules and then they all plug into this this Nexus or this like use the term Port City like as we think through this model does is Port syy still applicable like I don't want I don't want to like yeah like come at come at the analogy of of that but like it sounds more like there's these

channels and and between these modules they have in like they have interoperability between those and that is it's like a direct H in between them it's not like you got to go into this court City and then you got to hop back out to the yellow is that Fair Way To Think actually uh my my mthw is a little bit different so Hare is a poor city um hmer will sit uh maybe like uh ethereum is a country and ether worlds or or or cities um Not Perfect Analogy but like you give my might talk about this so hmer establishes like underly infrastructure that these trade routes or or

established hope so like P itself isn't like there's no application though Palmer is only establishing kind of like the physical infrastructure like the supply chain infrastructure uh that that enables trade flow over uh o over between like these cities on consents or that make sense so when you say Port City it's like Port City in general it's not like one particular Port City where everything flows like through the Panama Canal it's like no like Panama Canal is an example of a port city there's Port City there there's Port City in yrar like in Indonesia there's there's a whole bunch of port cities out there and developers and users can can flow

through these port cities and build more specifically Builders can use po to to build a Port City to connect a modular world over here and a modular world over there they can build a canal using polmer it's like polymer is like like if if you want to call it a highway polymer is cement if you want to call it uh a a channel paw is like the like the Waterway like a man-made like you're like a canal service that will dig out a canal so that a channel is now full yeah that's correct like it like PA permissions IC permissions andar what you're able to do is that on as we talk about like shacking away to different parts of of the model lock

world you're to the build these client and absy client is arbitrate can represent any sort of blockchain or any blockchains for example like you got like four different SES representing the four parts of a blockchain combine it together using some logic or condition obviously thisal client and deploy that onto PA and Pa can establish these these kind of ways anyone do this like anyone Comm come on a bomber create a cent create a connection create a channel it's completely missant very cool I think I think that is a massive point of adoption because ultimately like we we reach like a bottleneck in our in our service like when we're limited to ourselves and the service that our team can provide permissionless means it is essentially

instant adoption at like just a much quicker uh pace and and like there's no limit on the amount of acceleration um that that adoption can move that because it's not bottleneck by like a certain team yeah teams can go they can adopt it you know it can scale Limitless in yes and the other thing that I I would like to um emphasize here is that like using can we cor analogy so so using this cor analogy if polymer sits in this country all inherit security from that country so like because we're building a wall up building Palmer interoperability Hub that's a that's settling onto etherum uh Palmer is part of the Syrian country and

the that the country is this defending its quarters and therefore Palmer secured by poters so this when when um when when when you're connecting inwards if you connector B you're connecting with with ethereum security versus like if you were to connect using some thir party Guardian set this is like you're relying on some like random company rying on the the uh the world what is it the human uh dude I the World Health Organization something they like yeah you Ry on some neutral third party like didn't you rely on the security of the neutral third party something happens uh it's not like that country stepping in and say okay you attacked like like our city like you

like you you bombed our Port City like we're we're we're going to you know take some action on this versus like oh yeah this like neut to organization like maybe like the plane got lost uh the ship say and like you know kind of Dos their hands up and it's like yeah they don't really have military or anything um the military being security yeah have the military so like you know well well yeah dude and then and then this where the fault isolation comes in because like a military is going to defend its borders and like polymer is the the uh Highway U between like Canada and America and you're not relying on um like like the World Health Organization

to like protect uh like Canada and America you're relying on like Canada and America to protect uh like its borders and protect its Highway yeah like you're relying on like if it's the op Stacks you're relying on base and optimism to like protect uh the interoperability between Bas and optimism you're not relying on ethereum at like the L1 level to or is that no you're relying on etherum you're relying on ethereum yeah you're relying on ether because e is more security yeah yeah the AL ISM based a you great company no no do okay so so then how like where does when when it's when it's two uh chained that interact based on ethereum just see so I I see base and OPM that's

kind like cities okay on the in the Aran country so like if ether is a etherum can act essentially like like the country have the military which is the state um it the RO good on top of the Cities okay yeah so like in in the in the Kos model this was a little different B's model was like independent like city states right so like each city state has its own State its own military can they couldn't have been it fors uh and in this case the the theorum is is the the country and which have the military and you know the the city's going to inherit the security from uh from the country itself uhuh this yeah the same with cmer yeah yeah yeah yeah great you know wow I love this is

like one of my favorite conversations talking about mental models and like analogies like they fall apart and then they come back together because like you kind of like there's like another new layer of nuance that like comes into play dude this has been great like it is there I mean we I'm sure we could go for like oh we could go watch but like is there anything else that like like you feel like you wanted to touch more on you want us to talk more about or like you know we maybe we touched on we didn't get a chance to like really dive deep so yeah so so so one I I always I talked about at the beginning of the um the interview is since since we're putting the costic to OB stack I wanted to emphasize that uh we're looking to enable Builders to build a network over

way UPS natively notable R off some public ethereum and not just that I think you know not a this is not anything that negative about the existing World frame on ethering but the level developer act the level of customization isn't uh at the same level of the CL s uh you know it will change in the future um but we're like we can accelerate that so we can accelerate that about it just bringing the the WX the the the native you know interoperability um the existing models that already built uh the existing docks the existing developer Community but we can bring that into the op stat which has this settlement logic which is great which is allows uh the you know chain

Builders to start building a all etherum and we feel that that will greatly accelerate the Pains of these like app rollups so the existing R I don't really consider them app rollups just because you deploy um yet another evm or roll on aium and you deploy like few smart contracts on it that to me is a really like uh is it is it a chain optimized for application no it's some smart contracts deployed in the EDM uh on another role like it's not truly optimized for some specific application there's some like limited flexibility there in terms of the deficiency um so I I think with the public it's going to be um going have a lot more flexibil flexibility to build and with Palmer as thisum secured Highway that both you

know it's both an internal eyeway and a port city so it has all the highways leading to all the major cities all the major routes you know train tracks like you know uh like like like M like major highways um like like like SE routes internally and then externally it has like you know uh you know like boats like shipping lanes into all these other U countries and continents that cost the cost the interchain been more very full High wow my mind is blown yeah yeah it's uh it's such an expansive Network um and it's also one that it it will help to accelerate the adoption of these

app chains um or than grups what whatever you want to call them like if if these applications would pre-exist independent of of all these other chains yeah what do they say when you when you want to go uh fast you build on your own right so yes they'd be fast they'd be very scaled yeah but when you want to go far you build together and I think um if they are not plugged in and together with all of the other ecosystems that exist in W chain on on chain um they would lose out and they would uh they would not go as far because they wouldn't get access to the same liquidity the same users that exist on

every other chain yeah so like I and what I see with like division for um this framework and and we're calling a moner so polymer is for the like Min waterers like combined okay yeah so so like Port City like specifically is waterer and then this they make up like this all the port city is Aller Okay C is mon creates the indidual cities that are connected all okay so like a bunch of cities together connected like yeah polyware is the set of mon yeah the set of mon okay and the idea there is um it'll there a graduation have so you start as an application of ethereum you find part of AR fade but uses liqu mostly the more solid ethereum so you for efficiency you graduate into an AAL

then you get build with water recipe and at some point you become so prosperous that like you know actually a lot of our you know people in like business and and uh uh economy is actually independent of this country G we're going to graduate into a sovereign Aban or like a sovereign city state essentially this like a like a migration C between uh app app rollup app and also back app to app rollup to with I is all trigger we all J but like there's a MAG r p like AB R up and ab chain in back this is the Journey of dbx yeah they ski the aope part well I guess they did they do the app on uh let start

that no uh oh Oh I thought they were on St W no is it star or Cosmos no I no before Cosmos oh before now now DX is on yeah now they they did maybe they did they have that in between stage where they were yeah I think they were on a theum and then they they did some period of time with they on start one of the rollups but I think it'll start net and uh and then yeah then now they cosos oh and this is the journey so so like uh an application like dyx what is like the path for them to connect uh let's say you know they want to connect and R liquidity and users and and have all this interoperability with all these

other rollups uh what is the path oh like what is an integration that's like say I'm at DX right like what and I like that's my goal yeah and like yeah this actually this so This the connecting D connecting to etherum to Palmer is this is much secur than using any other up and the reason for that is because every other F puts some middle man in the middle essentially you r on the war board ination um but in in in the Palmer case you're relying on ethereum security so it's it's a it's it's direct connectivity from the ethereum side and in thex the CH you're actually connecting directly to the because we're a cosmos s chain or a c rollup we have direct IC connectivity so the existing IC Rel layers can connect uh can a

connection between U this I here you have to ID time and this things about like caveat aside and like implementation needs aside really to just spit up an IC connection directly from essentially from dydx to ethereum and then uh to Palmer and then from was already connected to all these wups and then now you can establish a topin transfer Channel or whatever kind of application transfer that you want uh application channel that you want over polymer to any of the rups in in this direct connectivity security obvious will dydx if you're listening this is Bo go talk to him and get deeper security and connect to ethereum yeah dude yeah

absolute pleasure yeah uh show your Twitter and like website and where people should uh hit you up yeah um my my Twitter is 00x or pmer laabs putter hs.org uh on you well chose one yeah uh