Wallets, Infrastructure & Cross-Chain Communication

Transcript

[Music] so everyone can you hear us well great so I am not Mar who will be moderating today's session from inot Club education Community I have an honor to asking a lot of different questions to these three amazing founder today about wallet infrastructure and also cross-chain communication so before we diving into the topic of course we want to know a little bit more about our panelist so each of you each of you can you introduce yourself a little bit and your projects and or a little bit uh how it is relate to this topic maybe we can

start from Pedro hi so my name is Pedro I'm the founder of Walla connect Network and also director of the wall connect Foundation I think wall connect is quite the wide known for connecting wallets in the ethereum space but I think what is less known is about the number of eips and ercs that has put forward to bring more standardization to the wallets and I think that's our contribution to this space Hi everyone thank you for making it you know in the afternoon I hope we'll be able to energize you still a little bit more that you don't fall asleep Marson here co-founder of redstone uh the fastest growing Oracle right now in the market specializing in yield Bing collateral uh deploying cross

chain to hundreds if not thousands of chain eventually uh and and also uh making people laugh um hey everyone U Nea here one of the co-founders of tenderly uh so tenderly is a platform that helps developers uh reach uh production production use cases from the beginning of their development uh we provide tools and services such as uh debugging uh simulation environments forking environments uh as well as production node rpcs to the users to use either like when they're developing when they're testing or when they're in production fantastic so as you can see that we have very like diverse view in this topic from also like wallet and Oracle and developer tooling so when it

comes to uh cross chain app uh or like a building app in decentralized manner what is the biggest developer phase uh what is the biggest challenge developer face nowadays that you feel like we should have fixed it already but it's still a around well uh the the fact that like you as a user have to pick up particular chain to interact is quite contradictory uh because it kind of poses a very technical question on a non-technical user and developers really today don't have much tools or infrastructure that can abstract this and it's something that it's quite surprising that hasn't been solved one of the reasons hasn't been solved is because it wasn't part of

the ethereum road map so we basically decentralized ethereum by having a, l2s but we never actually asked the question of how are these l2s are going to talk together so the applications have to make a choice of essentially interacting with one chain at a time and that's something that I think wall conect will play a big role not just because of the standards that we build but also because of the infrastructure that we provide and agree on that and we'll tap even more into what you finished with so standards I believe as a Founder in crypto it's very hard to accept a standard that a competitor imposed on the market and and you usually try very hard not to make it like sound as a standard or people to use as a standard

but I believe in the long term it's something that is just needed for newcomers to be comfortable like you know utilizing the technology to give an example that we took like a hard Choice early in the days there is chain link V free aggregator chain link is the biggest Oracle on the market right now has uh helped to break bring defi as we know it to the market and people are just familiar with this interface and initially we didn't provide it as an Oracle and then we said look like if people are pretty familiar with that not everyone yet but majority let's also uh use it and also offer like stuff on top of that so offer assets that chain link for example doesn't offer or offer that standard on chains that chain link doesn't go to so I would say as it is very challenging to accept like these

kind of Standards especially if they are uncomfortable for you but then finding a way to go over it and then a ways to also collaborate at large to make sure that when when a new developer comes in and sees an Oracle and sees chaining V3 interface he like okay this is a regular one I don't even need documentation to do that because it's like widely accepted uh there's another model of oracles which is pool Oracle and uh chain link delivers that but it's a pretty handicapped Redstone and piff were the two oracles that created that like the as as the um idea of delivering data directly to daps but there's no standard yet so we are finding let's say to make sure that one of ours is going to be

accepted and we'll see how it's going to be you know rolled out yeah um for someone who is building these tools and services and this infrastructure to help developers basically like not have to always choose which chain they want to use um it's a this is something that we've definitely validated that is a problem and developers have been uh talking to us about these issues and so the way we see it it's like a problem on a like different sets of layers and we cannot just attack one layer we simply have to like uh uh group everything one and it's one big problem that we need to solve um definitely with the rising number of l2s cross chain Communications becomes bigger and bigger issues uh I mean from

like a just from a standpoint of a user uh a user needs to have funds on any of these chains if they want to do basically anything uh and it's getting it's getting problematic because I need to keep track of where my funds are on which chain and it's it's it's getting harder and harder um one problem that we seen uh uh for us specifically is that uh These Chains behave not always the same way like uh uh um some of them say that they are evm compatible yet when you compile uh solidity code it bees it behaves completely different than on let's say for example ether on Manet uh and um this is especially problematic because then for that the problem of

developing becomes even harder because uh when you're developing you need to specify the chain that you want to develop on and then maybe do uh some different city developing just for that specific chain um there's also a problem of like the the base layer and like we also need to remember that these smart contracts are running on the ethereum network which is in essence is a a bunch of node in decentralized network that come to the consensus at some point um and these nodes are also like these are the open open source usually the open source clients that in in some cases have some security vulnerabilities uh just uh uh if you haven't checked out the go ethereum Discord for the past 3

hours uh they've disclosed the security vulnerability uh the patch is out so if you're like running uh go ethereum on ethereum inet or any of other like forked uh get noes uh be sure to update it ASAP because your node might be down um yeah so like there's a lot a lot of things to unfor why like three CES come to my mind is standardization fragmentation and coordination so that we all thinking about that in different perspective like security like providing data or in general providing great experience to users and developer um they're just saying now like a lot of things going on community talking about fragmentation and standardization especially like uh Bas seening native

rer recently talking about how can you collaborate or if fragmentation was um helping having more Innovation Happening by everyone focusing on their own thing so I'm wondering your perspective here that standardization and fragmentation if you need to choose one just be very extreme like we need to standardize everything or we need to let be things like fragmented what did you do and like why but it's a cycle so it's not necessarily that you have one or the other like at one point you don't know what you need to do so if you have one Central B just deciding this things like you don't really have as much experimentation so that's just kind of like how the

ethereum road map went where everything was going to be a Shard and theum Foundation was making decisions of how they're actually going to like split execution and this didn't create much incentive for anyone else to actually build shards or even contribute to these research projects because it wasn't really attractive so the fragmentation into several rollups and these rollups are not even compatible with each other allowed everyone to have a little bit more autonomy and kind of create their own silos these silos then became like incredibly productive and profitable to some extent to some of these companies and allowed for immense Innovation now we've reached the point of like this fragmentation is actually hurting each

other and now they're starting to go back into standardization and then we will continue to do this cycle over and over again and every time there's a new technological Frontier that we cross a frag mation will start appearing and then we standardize again and it oif everything we slow down and it's really required that we do this feedback look as fast as possible uh the problem isn't necessarily that there is fragmentation is the resistance that every cycle that we go into fragmentation it gets harder and harder for people to let go power into standardization who remembers plasma raise your hand yay nice quite a lot of people and I even saw a meme in Def

connect 2023 it was right in Istanbul over there after like one of vitalic post or presentation like plasma is back right so it very much okay I'm going to tell a personal story uh I have couple of uh mind models that dictate how I operate at least I try because it makes it easier to take decisions and basically go through you know life career and whatsoever and one of them that I really like with my older brother is exploration versus exploitation in terms of Cycles many times in your life for example when you're a student you're exploring right you're looking into many different things you're trying to understand what excites you what turns you on and like you know you where you really want to pursue your career or

like any of the excitements and the moment you catch something then usually you try to go into the um exploitation phase it's similar with the company when you're a startup at early stage then you're looking into many things right to catch the product Market fit but the moment you hit it or the moment it's like truly getting traction then you're are very much focused on this one particular thing and there are many other things that are shiny on their way but you try to stick to the goal and try to achieve it and then again let it go and go into exploration again and what you said I just totally agree with yeah uh totally agree as well um I mean like U the only thing that I believe that we should all agree on is like what's the

vision of the ethereum and then uh uh based on that uh uh we we we usually uh fragment things uh we we know that we want to go after scaling this is just the the the one of the biggest problems of the ethereum and if we just said okay scaling is there let's standardize scaling and we Tred that we tried that with shards uh uh plasma and so on but it simply doesn't work and uh uh uh uh but the approach that uh uh started from 2020 and 2021 uh with the uh roll s uh basically started the fragmentation of it and uh now we we we sort of know the path uh to the scaling uh and we should definitely look to standardize some of

the things in the rollup space uh because it would then definitely like allow for like much more rollups to emerge as well as uh uh help uh developers with the with a with a tooling that they can rely on and that's that's uh uh stable um but then there's also like right now we also know that the uh the amount of scaling that we have today is not sufficient enough so uh we should then like also work on standardization of the current like uh scaling througho that we have but we should also fragment and uh see like uh uh I don't know how 100 uh, transaction on the ethereum network would look like and we have projects for these there's Mega there's Mona there's so much so

many more uh so I believe that like we should always try to fragment but then also standardization should follow along uh once we know the path forward so it seems like we all agree that like both were contributing to different aspect of like Tech advancements and now it comes down to the things like once I think one of you mentioned about ethereum road map so how does project like Wally connect or Redstone or Tender are aligning with the ethereum core road map do you feel like you're having enough collaboration or coordination or support or do you think it it's lacking and there's some movements going towards that um like I I said at the beginning like won has been a large contributor to many

eips and erc's uh but that doesn't necessarily mean that was a good thing for wck as an organization it had its pros and cons uh one of its pros is obviously whenever you build on a standard you're instantly compatible with everyone one of its cons is that developing a standards takes like six to two 6 months to two years and and uh that's very slow for any product development and um I think one of the things that if I were to change now is to only build standards after the fact um because wallon would have advanced a lot faster and for example one of those uh reasons is for example this whole

account abstraction um we've always taken a more standards first approach uh but then at the end of the day like there's companies out there not building around standards and capturing the market so we have to also a little bit Embrace a little bit this fragmentation and it was I think to some extent disappointing to see how the ethereum road map did not see the huge like movement around the count substraction and just embraced it I mean yes there is the 772 standard that's going to go into the hard for but if you're a little bit um into the topic you will see that like 70702 is like um you asked for a beer and you got non-alcoholic beer it's like

yes you get a taste of it but it's not what you ordered and I I feel like to some extent the there's a little bit of a a disconnect uh between the the etherum road map and what users are asking and I think the more and more companies are starting to realize that that we have to be a little bit more independent we have to build without the road we have to basically design the road map and for anyone who has followed like the discourse on Twitter in the last two weeks with the discontent around the etherum foundation I think that we should ask ourselves if we're discontent with the foundation or we're discontent with ourselves that we did not take action we did not take initiative and we should have just be

the leaders ourselves that we wanted um and replace the foundation if we wanted and I think that's something that I want W conect to do more starting from now on how many of those eips you need to get hammered that's the question and get pissed off um well with redstone when we were designing the system we wanted to achieve one thing uh scalability and being able to support thousands of chains unlimited number of assets many ways of consuming the data not only the push model pull model but we are experimenting with new ones so specifically to the question I'll be frank we don't contribute hands on that much to the ethereum road map per se let's say a lot to the L2 let's say

expansion because we are supporting almost every reasonable let's say L2 like the one that is uh widely known and accepted evm is another standard that we like a lot as especially when it's fully evm like in fact evm not like any queer case down the road like yeah it's evm 99% but this 1% is breaking the whole system then is a bit problematic let's say um yeah so but being frank we we haven't contributed that much to the road map itself that much and I'm also very curious to see how Solana sui and all the others are going to be performing in the next let's call it three five years right because right now it's still fairly young organ this those are fairly young organizations right uh Solana for

what it's worth went through a lot of that happened right with FTX I'm pretty impressed I know a lot of people from that ecosystem and they suffered they suffered a lot and you know they uh sustained keep on building and growing but the coordination and vision problems are going to be there so right now people are saying hey Su is more performant than Solana so now the performance of Solana is not any more like the vision right the vision of ethereum was as far as I understand it like decentralization right making sure that it's decentralized making sure that is like uh without any limits without any Authority like governing it like handson that the community can also like step up and say hey I don't like it or take action and then if enough enough people like support it then go and

execute that so I believe only Bitcoin is the you know the chain the asset that is not going to suffer with that because there's not that much that you can change one and two it's been already accepted as the digital gold so yeah those are my two SS yeah uh so so yeah tenderly is integrated with uh tenderly operates on a very low level so we have like very tight integration to any of the evm chains that we support uh yeah funny thing uh two years ago I was on a panel here about the the eof uh and at the time we were pushing for it really hard simply because there's a bunch of improvements that uh not just like the the the developers would get but also like the tooling the the infrastructure

Etc uh so and this is something that got pushed back again to it's not going to be included in this hard for but but the next one but nevertheless we we we got a rough timeline for it um and that's the that's the eof uh we've been also working with uh the solidity team we've sort of defined uh something that we call evm debug format that's hopefully going to help uh uh not hopefully for sure going to help uh any company build a a solid debugger much more stable than the one we can build out today um simply because the the the both on from a perspective of the level of optimization that solity needs to do and uh the fact that uh uh we don't have thef quite

ready uh uh the the the debuggers kind of kind of suffer there um and um yeah how we also want to help uh uh community and developers we want any of these new upcoming Apes uh hard Forks to be available so that the both developers their platforms protocols apps can test it out prior to it going to the production because some of these hard fork and it hasn't happened lately but some of the hardworks uh uh tend to break uh your D it happens in 2019 when when we Chang the the the the the cost of some of the op codes uh so it gives developers a peace of mind that once the hard work happens you know that your

protocol will continue working as expected oh um just perhaps around two years ago still like everyone was talking about which L1 going to be WN uh winning like ethereum killer like all those kind of topic but now it's much more common to use the word like a cross chain or multi chain so when it comes to that uh you already mentioned like SOI or Solana so other like L1 protocols so what's your experience uh either like working with them or like observing like that could be something interesting also we can tackle so I want to a little bit understand your perspective because all of you are also in a way extended version of the developer as a Founder because you yourself are also building your product on top of some protocol you had to choose why you want to build on

that infrastructure and that ecosystem and now looking into others is there something you found the particularly interesting the the challenge I think is um we're constantly in this race of the overall value of crypto is growing and everyone is trying to position themselves as the first mover to capture that value and then eventually there will be a plateau where crypto can't grow any further and then all l1s will be commoditized and they will be treated as they are which is like price for data consumption like it's not nothing sexy but because

there's so much potential everyone is trying to figure out like what is the best layer one but realistically if you were to build an application today a web to application you would use many different forms of computational uh data storage and transports and you would never say that you're going to build your whole application in a single like mechanism like if you have something that is very high frequency you would 100% pick something like Solano but if you need something that is very high security then you would pick something like qvm and then if you would pick like something really that tries to imitate money then that's where Bitcoin

like becomes really powerful but you never try to force yourself to build a chat application on bitcoin just like you wouldn't build like I don't know money on salana like it there's a purpose for all of these l1s there's not going to be one single L1 eventually what we'll learn is that we need to use all of them at the same time for different purposes and instead of even being cross chain we have to in parallel use an application that connects to all of them for specific features and um until we actually try to move away from this like who's going to win them all mentality um we're never going to learn that and um I don't think it's possible

because like crypto hasn't reached the plateau like and hopefully it's not going to reach it in 2025 so that everyone of us has still potential for upside right um well working with other l1s was so has been so far good being honest I mean in a sense like when you're an infrastructure provider and they need you naturally they tell you like how to um find all the resources in terms of like the developer staff or support from devil and so on so I cannot say a bad word probably um in that aspect what I like again about standardization is that right now we have evm which is like widely accepted standard but more and more there are some other like VMS that

people are pretty familiar with right like with svm salana virtual machine uh there are also like chains that are uh utilizing that uh flow move is probably the third one that is getting quite a lot of traction if it's going to stay or not not we are going to see right but getting like who builds in hcll on top of cardano or like how many cardano based chains they are I don't know maybe I'm uninformed but to my knowledge there are not that many uh so it just shows like there's a bit of a different uh approach in terms of the environment on which you're uh building in that sense um I believe we haven't reached the saturation point of l1's and l2s actually to be honest like here I will

disagree I mean okay you said that we haven't reached the plateau but I believe the plateau is quite far ahead the reason being the experience or the capabilities that those systems give us in contrast to centralized systems the Gap is so large still that there will be the killers and there's that much capital on the market so that many VCS or that many investors that want to uh fund a brilliant and uh very brave Founders to go into stuff that is technically impossible but then it turns out maybe to some extent it is possible like for example to me mega if is a very interesting experiment we'll see whether they're going to ship in fact such a performance okay so for those that are not informed uh or are not familiar Mega

if is going to try build an L2 on top of ethereum that has a one big computer so centralized sequencer one located they want to collocate a lot of infrastructure next to there because the speed they're going for is below 100 millisecond to to my knowledge so literally it's the amount of time that the location of the server matters a lot and it's not even between let's call it Singapore and Europe it's between Singapore and Vietnam that matters for them like almost below one millisecond you know I was talking before about Flash Boys uh a story of guys who uh created fabric cable from Chicago to New Jersey to earn 4 milliseconds from 17

milliseconds to 14 milliseconds execution and I believe this is a perfect story that is going to be replicated more and more in in crypto especially around the defi use cases I'm not talking about game yeah the LC game I mean honestly because that's where the money is right like if you can if you have advantage of speed you can front run someone or sandwich attack or create like more efficient system so ultimately this is where uh things will be going so I agree that there will be the plateau but I strongly believe it's not like uh close to us it's pretty uh farther ahead yeah I agree with that I I believe that we're going to see more and more l1s in the future simply because um well for a fact we see like like that and uh I

think there's also like the the market is still there and we haven't capture like even like 1% uh of it so uh I believe that like if we truly want to be bring uh a lot of people and the majority of the people on chain and there's a reason for it if if we're looking to transfer the financial system on chain uh uh then simply we need people there because like people have financials that they want to store store there um so um I don't believe yeah I don't believe that uh we're going to be seeing the the plateau anytime soon uh it's just that like these new emerging l1s are going to like either be like focused on like uh security or skillability it's most likely going to

be scalability nowadays because that's the problem that uh uh um yeah most people are trying to solve uh but um yeah and from a developer perspective it's just like you're initially going to be choosing one or the other but the the the company behind that L1 is going to try and solve the other part of it and they don't go together like we've seen it like uh salana had a big problem with the security while on the other hand ethereum had big problems with scaling um and so it's just like I I see it as like Android and Apple like similar similar thing like 10 years ago uh in the end in the next 10 years they're going to reach the the similar point we're going to have Security on salon

and we're going to have scalability on the on the ethereum network so so right now like when people are choosing L1 it's just like uh what you need at that that point and then hopefully like uh uh by the time you either scale or by the time you need scaling uh the the the the protocol will fix the other part see um now I have a like cion to each of you like uh in the respective of like your project as the cross chain multi chain application become more like coming and then we all see they're like hey this going to be helping us in broader adoption so in wet connect point of view how do you envision the evolution of w in next five years will we see a simless SMY chain experience when users like

don't need to worry about it using and how we can also experience the developer yeah so we actually have a prototype for this uh we did demo recently about it and basically the big change about it is that too many times the application is dependence on how the blockchain actually functions so for example if you want something as simple as an nft collection uh you need to actually query where the nfts are hosted and this concept that tokens or nfts even live on a chain is kind um affecting the user experience because you want your nft and your tokens to live everywhere not in one chain so

we're actually building a different API where instead of the application uh quing the balances for tokens from the blockchain directly it quoted from the wallet so the wall network will be providing the source of Truth and saying this user has these tokens and these nfts and the application doesn't actually need to know where these chains are hosting these tokens so at any point in time when the app wants I want you to sell this nft or I want you to transfer or deposit these tokens it tells the wall neck Network and then the wall neck Network communicates to the wallet and now it's the wallet's job to meet the requirements that was posed by the app

so uh if the app wanted your nft to go to polygon but the nft was on arbitrum now it's your job as a wallet to route that accordingly to the app requirements so the application in a way was completely abstracted from the complexity of assets living in different chains it was the wallet's responsibility to track which chains the user has used which tokens it had and just give an aggregated balance but then in the moment of actually transacting these assets then the wallet now has an extra responsibility of bridging any tokens or balances across different chains and this is currently a prototype and we hope that we actually solidify

this like very um fast so that we can start delivering because then this will completely change how we actually use wallets and hopefully we will never have to switch Network or even select a network when connecting your wallet so very exciting feature ahead of us perhaps now you're guessing my casion so as an oracle so what kind of innovation Redstone is working on to deliver efficient and reliable data across different blockchain um yeah there's quite a lot of innovation happening I don't want to spoil everything right because this is come on give us a little bit more well a little bit H we announced today the launch of redstone actively validated service on IG layer the main net we've been working on that for 10 months we've been observing igen layer team like

going slowly from pre-main points Mania people putting like I don't know 15 billion dollars into something that is not main it and they and projects actively asking us as an oracle to create price sheet for points so they can leverage points into lending markets like Mor and so on which is literally what probably would cause like a collapse and I remember talking with Sham the founder of igen layer in March 24 April and he was telling me Marson do whatever you can so people don't do it like it's this is the one single thing that can overheat the system and you know because it was pre-main even right so that was just crazy idea people were too excited probably about it h but I've seen igen layer going step by step uh

into the main net then each EPO and each Milestone being delivered now uh slashing uh at least to my knowledge is not on Main net like fully yet so it is still to come but we've already announc it today and are happy to cooperate and I believe raking in the long term is going to be a primitive that will stay with us and it's going to be pretty like very important especially for infrastructure providers like oracles bridges l2s that don't have let's say decentralization built in from day one right like L1 you you would expect at least that there is a sort of of like decentralization right because this is like the standard in the industry at least uh in my view but from these kind of operators uh not necessarily um super quick oracles so

there's a reason I talk about this Flash Boys because to me it's like hey this is where the industry is going to go to if you're going to do defi you need to probably replicate the cycle that happened in traditional Finance it wasn't the case that in 80s or 90s they already created this kind of cables it happened in 20089 and as far as I remember so we talk with mega if Mona those that push the frontier of efficiency to the absolute uh maximum and we are very deep into uh Bitcoin yield and Bitcoin ecosystem so L2 is on top of Bitcoin uh Babylon so Bitcoin staking uh these kind of uh applications but maybe also to sents the previous

question I I really hope and keep my fingers crossed that 25 and 26 is going to be are going to be years of distribution so we are going to see more players that are having heavy distribution not caring about the technology that much anymore so accepting I don't know op stack or svm whatever is already on the market and just trying to bring a lot of new users I see guys uh from worldcoin for example on the uh over here on the conference so for them like World chain has like unfair advantage of on boarding real users right like not the uh bot Farmers I don't know whether you guys followed on Twitter there Brian Pino from layer zero like his Crusade against the farmers from China that were trying to

get the layer zero air drop that was very interesting and here you have the opportunity to get like real human beings like interacting on chain H another one is sonum so Sony launched also an L2 uh that has a potential in my opinion in Japan uh it's working very closely with Team from Asar that back in the days was big in that region and I believe there will be more and more these kind of players that already have a big distribution and just they just pick uh a technology and try to implement that and uh put into scale and we are going to see what Trump Administration is going to use for their Trump chain or whatever it is going to be cool so I'm so looking forward to see like more distribution happening and then a little bit shaking the uh uh perspective so from tender point of view

so when people are building like app on top of protocol either they focus on scalability or they focus on like speed uh uh scalability or like security still debugging and monitoring smart contracts in production it's Challenge and you are helping them do you see any more like challenges because cross chain is actually complex problem to solve or do you think actually it can ease up by people trying to work in a standardization how do you envision what's coming in next two three two three years and what's the role tender is uh trying to play yeah um that's a good that's a good question um yeah so uh the cross chain is I would say still very complex uh today uh how we help developers and

in the end how they help end users is usually by doing the simulation and understanding what's going to happen once you similar trans once you uh send a transaction on one chain uh what's the outcome on the other chain uh that's definitely one thing and that's that's what's happening usually uh uh in these wallets for example but then also during the development uh uh what we've seen people are uh very interested in is uh forking to ch and then uh when they're building bridges uh ensuring that uh uh funds uh transfer safely that everything is working correctly uh uh and that there are no uh known issues uh the problem there is that uh I mentioned

before in the standardization uh uh topic that uh These Chains don't always behave the same way yes they say they they are evm compatible but they don't execute the same code usually uh so what we do is when we are forking specific chain we basically fork and use their version of the evm so developers have peace of mind knowing that uh uh uh things that happened on these Forks on these private virtual environments uh are going to the same thing is going to H happen on these production chains as well um and also like for the for the cross-chain thing uh uh like tenderly uh has had like a multi Network sort of vision of uh and it's been way of ours

it's always been in in back of our our minds uh when we approach building tenderly uh to be a multiversion multi-chain version uh the world is going to be a multi network uh version uh so um from the moment uh uh We've started building it uh we knew that we need to set up apis so that people are going to be able to query all of these chains that we support so today we have a way for basically anybody to query balances year C20 tokens not just for one chain but for all of them and also be able to explore specific addresses across all the chains that we support so uh uh we really want to empower users to build in the cross chain World cool so

given that our time is almost up I'd like to ask each of you giving a one advice as a founder and core contributor to ethereum ecosystem if someone want to takeing a similar challenge as you like wallet infrastructure CR chain what would be your advice to some who is trying to look for problem to solve for me I think what has been very helpful is um the moment in around 2019 I looked at Walla conect and I thought that it's growth while it had been quite substantial it was still too silent to be ethereum only and then I challenged myself to build a Walla connect that

would work with any chain and that completely re revolutionized the design of wanck and pretty much the future of won now wck is across like more than 20 l1s and across like even more l2s and it only took uh as simple to think what if your products or infrastructure or SDK or wallet whatever you're building had to work in two completely different l1s what would it be required for you to change and your first insect would be like you have to change everything but then you realize that like these differences between l1s are so small that you actually don't have to change that much and then you end up building

not only a more resilient product because now you're not dependent on a single L1 but you actually captured the much bigger audience and uh if I guess if I didn't do that back in 2019 W pretty much would be host hostage of like whatever ethereum wants to do and now W is growing Beyond ethereum TKS to just making a simple mental exercise of what it takes to build your product for two different l1s in a singular experience and that would be my advice for you guys well Founders are very different from each other and they create also uh projects for different reasons right like uh some are just passionate about

the topics others want to get rich H so many times it's a combination of uh many of those uh some are very technical like probably my co-p speakers over here some are less technical like myself I don't code daily basis but I love looking at charts and architecture and trying to understand like how to connect the dots and how to also try to be the bridge between the like regular users and regular people and the uh developers themselves if I were to give like any advice as think how to bring more users and work with institutions and people who already have distribution that are willing to interact with blockchain themselves like don't Focus only on defi

again don't focus on uh the same users that are going for the same points think how to grow the pie because with that mindset one our whole industry is going to be growing right not like fighting with each other but rather expanding the uh map as the whole and two I believe there are going to be a lot of opportunities with now uh a bit more friendly uh environment especially in the right like executive orders that we've seen recently uh mcoin that was by the way one of the quickest wealth generation event in mankind I mean from zero to10 billion do over two days is crazy whether it's good or not I leave it to you right I have my opinion but it

happened H personally I'm very pissed about Melania I mean like one one was enough when I saw the other one I was like okay this simulation is you know is it the real war the real life right or is it the fantasy but the bottom line what I want to convey is try to think like how to bring more institutions more users more of your friends into the ecosystem how to tap into those abstraction points that we've chatted about over here um yeah so uh if your goal is to get rich really fast and you have a technical skill set uh try bu bound te or auditing uh there are like a bunch of bug bounties uh uh platforms where like you can get like up to a million for

like a critical vulner vulnerability and especially with the rising amount of these new L1 L2 networks uh uh that uh sort of uh uh usually Fork some of the known evm known VM Stacks uh but then add some some flavor uh uh to it uh there's usually a bug uh crawling around somewhere there uh and uh yeah uh for a for a more longterm uh thing uh I would say definitely uh uh watch out for like what's new in the ethereum ecosystem so I believe the the so we we're sort of figuring out scaling but then the the the user experience on in in theum ecosystem is pretty bad that's why we

have 7702 it's not ideal but uh uh it moves the needle in some Direction so uh definitely uh uh ethereum is on hun for like uh uh they want to adopt uh they want to they want the mass adoption of the ethereum network and that's definitely something that I believe is going to uh allow for for a couple of companies to to build out a startups around it and then uh like uh uh uh uh uh as Martian mentioned um definitely look look out for the institution so we we're seeing Sony entering the game so uh it's a big conglomerate and they they want to go onchain uh last year or the year before that uh coinbase built out

the the base rollup so definitely uh institutions are going on chain and they want to utilize uh uh the the open network uh into into leveraging uh uh and making more for the for their users so yeah fantastic so like of course why we enjoy like anything bring attention to whole ecosystem such as like mem coin but also I'm really glad that you pointed out we can make money without actually just like a trading mecoin but handle the bu Bounty building a like worldwide ecosystem which can changed their whole fundamental thesis of how to build app on top of decentralized rail so I'm very excited that we had this panel discussion with three amazing Founders perhaps if you're developer

building an app this is maybe three services you're going to look into and use the most so please like give Applause to our panelist and let's stay in touch [Music]