VDAO Ep.8 Building Local Resilience in Uncertain Times with Adrian

Transcript

Hey Adrian, welcome to the podcast. >> Uh thank thanks so much. Happy to be here. >> So we're as you know the theme of the this uh green pill series hosted by Vow is resilience and anti-fragility. We we generally start off with like the why for our guests. So carrying on that trend, I'm curious to hear from you like what is your why? What motivates you when it comes to building local resilience? >> Mhm. I think um there is probably a good couple of things um for for me. It's it's it's an awesome question actually.

It it prompts prompts me to kind of really really um actively focus in on that. So the I think I think it's it's like as we many of us may be aware we're we're certainly in in in uncertain times. um and and all that. So that that that that that's a that's an obvious um reason, but I think for me it would be I I really hold um the concept of ecosystems in in in higher regard. It's probably even a bit of a like a lighthouse for me in terms of like observing how natural systems seem to um make it through um a a lot of various disturbance events. um and Ellie even and and and so so it's I find it

fascinating and and so like if if anything it's a big inspiration for me as well and and um kind of charting this this this this path of of uh resilience and yeah I've I've have a family and and and all these things now and and and so it's it's just like these things are are I I think more relevant than ever and and so Yeah. So, like I think I think it's it's it's important to be it's it's important to be to to to to create a um um a resilient family as much as possible to to um have access to to food to to to water to to being there for my

Yeah. to being there for my for my for my family as well. um um to to being to being there in my in my in my community as much as much as possible. Um uh that that that that kind of thing. So so so yeah, I I'll continue to kind of reflect on why as as we as as we talk because I think there's many sort of layered layered threads to that. >> Yeah, I think this kind of thread of uncertainty like we're living in uncertain uncertain times. I think that's um shared by many people that are drawn to to build resilience. And also what I'm hearing is like ecosystems and ecosystem thinking is like really important to you. So like learning from

nature and building on uh the lessons that nature can teach us about like our resilient system, what a resilient system, resilient ecology looks like. >> Absolutely. Yeah. I'm curious to to um even just drill down on this term resilience itself like what does that term mean to you? Like how do you define resilience? >> Totally. It's it's a so I'll admit this is this term is I think it's going through almost like my my knowledge or understanding of the term is is is going through an evolution and all that because there's there's parallel terms like antifragile there there I I just I um um I can't can't recall the author um

it's it's last year read a book on the subject as well and and which was really really insightful and and so like I think there's a there's a lot of different versions for it but for me kind of where where where I'm I the understanding that I I think I keep gravitating towards too is that like it's again kind of taken from ecosystems. So, so for me, um, when I think about the word resilience, I my current sort of appreciation, understanding of it would be how how does a system and sort of stay true to itself or hold itself together through various disturbances. And um, a disturbance is an ecological term for force or forces that are that are

capable of dismantling that system or or even greatly changing it. Change I think is a part of it though. Change has an I think has an interesting role that and starting to realize that resilience may not necessarily mean something is unchanged. Things I think can change or or perhaps even ought to change. Um but there is there there there's also this I think this property of of being able to maintain some degree of composure. So like a uh in an ecosystem a the like I think a great example would be a pine forest. Um so in our our part of the world here we have we have stands

of two needle pines lodgeable pine for instance which is which is a which is a plant that is um has actually evolved with wildfire and uh in fact actually wild wildfire is is quite necessary in order for the cones uh the seeds uh of this type of of of pine to to germinate. It's one of the stratification uh conditions and and so so a wildfire may come through on some slopes and burn down uh these these trees and it may arguably look like this system has has perished. Um but the fact is is is is it it hasn't um it goes through a renewal and so so then you you um you get a

whole new flush of um of of of seeds that are activated by the wildflower and a lot of the wild the wild fire that is and and still other plants like the like there's another plant that grows in the same ecosystem Douglas fur which has really really thick bark um very deep roots and so these these plants can get burnt but after the fire passes um above ground and most certainly below ground, these these these systems are these these plants are still alive and the the community of creatures that that live in support with them um are also alive. And so so then the system starts to bounce back. It's only really recently that um that we're seeing wildfires of such a

large size that are arguably unnatural because of past land use patterns that we're starting to see burns that never been hotter or never been larger um that are actually capable of of um dismantling these these systems. But uh wildfire um as a disturbance has like arguably made this system stronger because um these you'd always have a patchwork and mosaic of various fires of various intensities and and so then in the end of the day that led to to an increase of forest health because you have differing ages, you have different differing species compositions in light of these wildfires and then you had a higher net species diversity and and and all I know it's

starting to sound technical, but but there's an ecosystem that is that is enduring um of of of a whole lot of disturbance and all that that there's many many many examples and I'd be happy to go into them, but it's just that's the first one that came to to mind. So, so yeah. So in summary, um there's enough there's enough connections there's enough interactions with neighboring creatures um that when a disturbance comes through even though some of those connections might be knocked off the systems defined by so much interconnectivity that that it has a has a really high survivability. Even though it's it's its form might change at that moment the system is very much alive. And so that

yeah, that that that's kind of like the the the current sort of understanding and appreciation of the term resilience for me at this moment. And it sounds like from what you're saying like the um you mentioned anti-fragility earlier but what I'm hearing from your description of the the forest fire is the an ecosystem that can get stronger through a disruption or it can become more diverse more is actually actually has some innate quality that like the disruption comes and then some new growth happens and some some positive change comes.

>> Absolutely. And I think there's also a layer of like positive feedback loops in it as well. Like for instance, if we look at really that similar system again like some of the strongest wood is seen uh from trees that are growing in constant disturbance where you have like for instance very very high winds. um you have you have the strongest root systems and so like like this disturbance in general is a it's it it can be regarded as a very positive property and it provides a positive feed fe feedback loop because then then the more the more strength that you have then then like those those roots are going in really really deep to resist that wind the wood is getting really strong and thick and then that that that has this then property of helping to

stitch the trust landscape together all that more and so wind which is capable of erosion and weathering is actually working. It's being facilitated by the plants to strengthen up um the the the terrestrial landscape. So So like you you have you have all sorts of positive feedback loops uh that are that are that are associated where you have systems through disturbance just want to get stronger. Um and and I and I find that property so so beautiful. If we're to move on to think a bit about your life like over in in Canada, I'm curious to learn a bit about how have you tried to to make your own life and your local community more resilient? Like what

steps have you taken? >> Yeah. So, I think there several number one would be would be like kind of like the active sense of of trying to build community. that would be to to like even if it's just like cultivating like a network of really trusted and good quality uh friends in my community through through through through through work working on things that like we all care about so much and and and and contributing to that. So like like I think one of the one of one of the first things uh that I did when I got into the permaculture movement is is started the Calgary Harvest project which we we had a conversation about in in the in the um the past. And so essentially Calgary

Harvest is a it's a network that does a couple things or a I should say it aims to do a couple of things at once. What it does is it causes people to get to know one another. Um, and I've seen actually some really good friendships, for instance, build out of that network. Like people literally met one another picking apples from local trees in the city of Calgary here. And then those those friendships have become have have come to be um very very active and and it's like a meaningful connection has meaningful connections have occurred between people essentially out of thin air and and um and and so so so that that was that was one of the aims to

kind of like yeah help help cause that to happen. Another one is is is is that like it's a it's a community of um it's a food community. It's a it's a good quality food harvesting and and preserving community. So for those of you um listening um Kala Harvest is is is a project that started several years ago. just in summary that it connects people who like homeowners or property landholders in the in the municipality of Calgary here uh who have fruit trees already growing growing on their properties who don't have the time or the resources or the ability for whichever reasons to be able to harvest uh all or any of that fruit. And so so

what what the organiza what the organization then does is is is that it then connects people who are looking for looking for like fresh quality fruit that doesn't have pesticides on it for instance that's local. um even even different types of fruit that like hasn't really been seen before because like the conventional the the conventional apple industry really only has about four or five different varieties and and all that. Here we have hundreds of different niche varieties and and all that. So the fruit's really really interesting, but what it does is is it is it connects people who are looking to to glean that fruit with those with those those property owners who have the fruit. And so it's kind of

like a natural connection that that that that it that emerges and it builds these relationships so that if like say if there's ever a disturbance in our food system for instance um this network is still going to be alive um and in effect is going to become even more in demand and and so so that was the primary reason for creating the project. But kind of like a secondary emergent property of that is is that well it's creating it it's creating community. It's it's actually creating community and it's it's building friendships and all that and and so so so while it wasn't the primary aim it's um I think a very very important secondary aim uh for for all of us here um um to to build

like even another layer of resilience in in our in our families. Um, so like we'll we'll always now have like a like a source for for um fruit and and food and canning parties and apple juice and things like that. So, so I think that that that's another layer. I think some other things that I'm doing is is that I've been over the years really learning how to harvest rainwater uh grow my own food for um have like have our family grow our own food help other people um um and share the lessons of what we've been learning um uh for for other people to contribute um to there as well. Um, I've like perhaps an embarrassed to say I've only just recently learned how to actually start making compost. um which

is like it's it's such an important skill because it's just it's this is where where a lot of um being able to use our own hands to actually grow our own food starts because uh we've sort of accidentally burned through our soil and it's just like actually watched our soil fertility um fertil fertility decline because we've actually been taking more than we've been giving back and I think this is another sort of concept that we've we've we we knew that we would had to do it, but we were just kind of like we were planting new things and working on various other projects through the years and and didn't give it its due attention. And so now now that's starting to to turn around because getting off topic here because that's a

whole chapter into itself. But >> well, I think the compost thing is really interesting because it's in fact like I would be quite curious to go into these topics about things like composting. You've talked about canning like these are um old skills I guess you could say. I mean there people are keeping them alive but it's probably more common for your average gardener to like go out to a hardware store to buy compost or gardening center to buy compost than it is for them to kind of get serious about making it themselves. And the same with canning, right? like >> um what you're talking about with canning is like uh caliber harvest going

around the local neighborhoods uh harvesting food but then if you have the surplus that it can't all be used in one go like then you're going to can it and preserve it for the the winter say uh so I wonder maybe you can just touch upon those two topics and >> totally also how it relates to like preserving uh tradition s that can enhance resilience that may otherwise be lost in a more advanced technological age with like global supply chains rather than like niche local community.

>> Mhm. Totally. And so I think maybe I can open up with a uh with a kind of like a concept that that that I think is describing a lot of a lot of this and the motivations uh thereof as well is is like I would argue that most phenomena that we see in the world um would be described by like a sine wave. Maybe not a nice balanced regular sine wave but more just like a pattern of like peaks and valleys. um their wavelength of course might might vary and all that but like like things aren't linear and so so so the the the and I'll I'll relate this here in a second and so so like kind of like what we we might see swings of temperature or swings of like what the

stock market is doing and all these things like like it's it's just like it expresses itself if we think about there's a technology called um I'll keep this really quick but there's a neat technology that actually anyone can build um called a rocket rocket mass heater. Uh, and the principle of the rocket mass heater is is that it's a very very simply made stove. Um, and at its essence, what it does is is that you you burn wood, it burns it really really efficiently. Um, but the stove also has a huge amount of thermal mass. So if you burn the fire long enough, then that heat then gets absorbed into the into the thermal mass. And so then once you have heat charged into thermal mass um um then it starts to well even when the fire is not burning then it's

providing it's providing a lot of a lot of that heat or or and I've actually it and so we we we have one of these in our little greenhouse and for instance and so without burning that you can get some crazy temperature swings and which are almost destructively like destructively too high and then destructively too low and so so by operating a uh a simple rocket mass heater technology in their greenhouse, we can actually moderate those peaks and valleys and it's that moderation pattern um that that a lot of construction starts to happen. So like like very another another quick example is that people are using uh climate batteries in in in green houses now because they can actually take excess summer heat um and charge that into the

ground to warm up uh the the air in the winter time. And so so so it it it constructively uses the peak to bring up the the the the destructive low temperatures and and and that so that's just yet another example. You see it all the time in nature and natural systems. Um ponds for instance a good it'll be a good idea to to for for many for many landscapes to if possible for multitude of reasons to build ponds but one of them of of which is is it can it can shave off lower temperatures to offset frost. Uhhuh. for instance, because it it it takes on heat during the growing season or during during the warm periods of the day and then it moderates the temperature. And so as a concept like I think we can apply this to our our our

our lives as well. And um the the the so like canning for for instance is an is an excellent example of the of this of this concept because like even in our garden um in cold temperate Calgary where when the sun shines in the summertime it shines hard and you get a huge flush of growth way more than you you could you could even con conceivably eat during the growing season. Um like we now regard our garden not as our summer food source per se. We regard it or as our our our we we we we we regard it as our way of of producing and then being able to

store our winter food. And so because like the growing season when it's in full full effect, it's a big peak. It's like it's almost I won't say destructively, but it's just it's way more than we can we can possibly know what to do with. And so that is the reason why we preserve uh food now because then that becomes our the low of course being in the middle of the the the winter and the early spring when nothing is growing. That's that's the low that's the lack of quantity that we're trying to pull up uh from from the summer season. So again it's moderate moderating those those highs and lows.

Um, so it's kind of like the concept of of like I think it's a part of the I would argue it's a part of the resilience conversation because it's like what can we look at that that's around us that if unchecked is almost destructive or it's leading to waste like in terms of when thing when when resources or energies are are available and then where can we find the adjacent those adjacent situations where like okay well it's not in supply and and and all that and and so so it's kind of like the concept almost like the conceptual reason for for for canning Now, I went into a a tangent, so I almost forget the original questioning. You'll have to remind me. Um the um Yeah, >> you kind of cover you kind of covered it. It was just about like um yeah, like to talk us through canning

and the like the reasoning for that, like why why that would be important at this point. I guess >> uh from what you described like >> you're bringing back a lot of old technology, you know? I mean, and not they ever fully went away, but you're like you're continuing that that trend. Uh you mentioned rocket stoves there. Rocket stoves you can build by hand, right? And you you can even use it to to heat your home. Uh if they're they're built into obviously in a safe way uh into your home, you can do that. Um but yeah, I guess what we're touching upon here is like

water. You mentioned rainwater harvest and maybe we can uh touch a bit more on that. Absolutely. Obviously food has come up quite a lot like you're talking about Calibbury Harvest which is about >> kind of tapping into the abundance of the city and bringing it together building community around that and then energy with the the rocket stove uh kind of model using that to to heat your your greenhouse. >> These are the three domains we tend to look at when we're thinking about resilience. And I often ask people how they have uh kind of what they're doing for their food resilience, their water resilience and energy resilience. Like you've already um touched upon upon those three, but is there anything there

that you'd like to touch upon in in more detail or any I I like going off on tangents. So yeah, what would you like to go off in right now? >> Yeah, totally. There's there's all sorts like like we're we're actually making a um a conscious choice to almost move towards like lower tech like what we what one could dub as lower lower tech. Um because it it it it's like like canning and and and where we're now like yeah we're making our own sour cream. We're we're relatively too new to all this. Like I I come from a path of life where like none of this was even remotely in my consciousness and and all that. So, we're like like com completely immersing ourselves into learning these new sort of um low tech skills and all

that because it's just it it's it's once we learn those things, they're they're they're they're they're with us and we can teach that to to to to our to our children and and um like they don't require nearly as long of a of a of a of a complicated supply chain or or or um sort of prerequisite entities and and all that which we don't have control over and and that that that sort of thing and so so like there once we learn these skills and that that and I think that's why it's worth you to bring up composting because it's like once we know that we're we're and and we we can demonstrate the results of compost as well is it's like that's that that's a skill that we'll have forever. We don't we don't really rely on too many other

things in order for that to happen. Um and and we're growing a lot of what goes into that compost now. We have like easily 40 or 50 different genera of plants that then go into that compost which all of them host their own microbes. So, we're going to get the microbiology really as as as diverse as we can we can we can get it and and that that's what we can do with our with our with all of our own pairs of hands and and and and so so there's there's a stability in that. Um and and and uh we have worm um worm compost as well. So, so which then yet breeds different types of micro, it's a different process for creating microbe. And we we generally learned that like it's not so much the

quantity, it's it's also like eating and and and and as well is like now every week we've we we decided to chart it and we we eat about 40 about 40 and that's climbing right now 40 different types of direct plant fibers uh in per week in our in our diet. And it's kind of like a meal planning thing now. It's just something that we just re recently started doing is is that if we're wondering what we're going to cook, well, we look on the list. It's just like, okay, well, what what direct types of plant fibers did do we not yet have this week? Okay, well, we'll make we'll make a dish that that incorporates that.

And so, we're we're hitting about 40 um um moving on to 50 um of those per week. And then and then then then and and so like like so from what the research that we did is just like that that helps make the mic the gut microbiome like super happy and and and and all that because it needs then to conjure up and sort of breed the right kind of microbes to be able to to digest that food and and and it has like positive properties for the immune system and and these these sort of things, right? And and so the same with the compost like all the all of this like we we we can we we can do um right right here at at a house. We don't need a lot of external inputs for that.

Um we we live on an urban lot. So of of it's like of course we do need to rely on the the the what I'll call the the outside food system to to bring some of those things to to to our plate. um one day we'll be we'll be uh living more rurally and and so then that's that that's when we like to aim to be able to um really take a shot of like growing a much larger uh portion of of of these raw kind of plant foods uh on site or in trade with with with local members of the community. But we see our urban life here as a as as a really good way of like learning some of these ground skills before we apply them

at a larger level. So, so that that that's how we're that's how we're um that's that's another reason why we're we're um seeing this as an as an opportunity. But it's and from from the watering standpoint as well, like this is a whole other layer, right? Because like we we harvest on our urban l here, we're we're harvesting um we it changes year year by year. Last year we had quite a quite a the year before that is is we had a bone dry year. Last year we actually had quite a bit of water. Um last year we are able to irrigate um all of our food crops. About 90% of it was irrigated by rainwater. We we only had to draw on on this on municipal water supply for about up to 10% of that uh just for those one really nasty dry

stretch and and and and all that. One of the reasons was we discovered is is because our garden soil um as I mentioned earlier we've been taking from it more than we've been giving because we've been slow to learn composting um the composting also has this enormous property of water retention in the soil. So as we as we build up that organic matter um create that surface area and and all that with our compost. We put our first load of compost on last year that we have actually been able to make ourselves. It looked like a um like a black forest cake and it was beautiful and and and it's it's it's just it takes a long time for the water to leave to leave that structure. And so so we're actually going to be sort of working on

our on our localizing our water budget purely through building complex as well because it's it's that that's the reason why we had the water more is we discovered is is because we left our soil to go unhealthy uh and and all that. So, we're we're we're so we discover we're we're we're really going to be able to move closer and closer to um taking care of our own water needs. And as as as you may as as you may have heard, it's just Calgary is going through sort of sort of repeated situations of um large diameter water main uh pipe um breakages where where the the one two years ago was was during the growing season. So, so, so there there were quite quite strict water restrictions and so so we would not have

been able to irrigate our our garden um uh with the municipal water supply anyway. We were able to pro and but the fact is is we were able to cover most of that with just with our rainwater and and and all that. So, so it's just like like the supply lines for bringing water to to gardens is literally compromised. Um it's it's it's it's it's literally being checked in the city of Calgary for instance. Um, and so just as a as a almost as a playful example, basically I was saying is is because of these these these these waterme um failures in the city of Calgary for instance, it's been it's been kind of like a uh like almost like a playful example of of of

the need for building local property scale um irrigation water resilience um um because quite literally the water supply has not been available. for um for for uh for a growing season um to be able to grow one's own food. And so so so we've fortunately been able to have enough tank storage u to get ourselves through most of that. Uh now with us learning that the role of compost and soil tilt um um is actually even more important than the rain tanks themselves. Um we'll be able to sail through um really any supply issue here with with with water for a garden. uh because we've been through some pretty

ext like like the water main break coincided with with with a year that we've only got about uh 190 millimeters of rainfall availability during during that summer. Uh so so it was quite droughty. Um so um yeah so that that that was that that was it was a neat experience to to go through that that that situation. Yeah. >> What I'm hearing from like listening to your you describe your journey is like the the importance of this from the point of view of well-being like eating healthy food that you're talking about your gut biome that seems to be a major motivator for you. And it I'm curious also just to pick up on this point

around uh the voltech solutions. I I know that you're someone that does work with tech. you know, you're you're um uh a landscape designer, you're working with QGIS, mapping software, various other technologies to to design and implement uh you know, regenerative systems on on the land. Yeah, I'm curious like what your your thought is on on that. Like do you see this as being a kind of this lifestyle as like a rejection of tech or is it is it more about like having these skills sets in your armory if you like or in your in your toolkit that you can pull upon if

>> there is a disruption to the system. For example, if you know like the local municipal water supply goes down in a in an urban area. Mhm. >> It's a it's a great question. I think I think it's it's like tech has a tech has a role. I think tech or maybe we can call it high-tech in in in this sense absolutely has a role and like while it's available while the systems are running. I think I think those those those are going to rep represent opportunities to kind of like create like use them almost to create better communities or greater resilience. use use them and like like I love using CAD and and the QGS like sort of in my working capacity because I can see that

it's quite literally helping helping people um and families create these these new systems on the ground that then will be they'll be stewarded um and through time they'll they'll they'll translate the biomass and living creatures and and and and then them them building um building food food production systems on their on their properties. And so it's almost like a but I I I'm training myself to almost regard them as a as a fast track. It's it's just like much like like um let's let's like when we when we get land for for for instance is one of one of the first things I'm going to do after identifying where we're going to

store water on the site, of course, I'm going to bring bring in an excavator. uh this this this immense piece of high tech that that can that can dig something that would create um that would that would create huge amounts of like labor saved uh for instance but then it's just but then I know that that that that that pond is going to be is going to be there indefinitely. It's it's going to start contributing to to to the ecology. So it's it it would be like I don't want to say it's an appropriate use of these things in this uh particular sense. It is it it's it's it's like um but the the the it it just yeah like I I'm personally

and philosophically more than happy to kind of use the the high-tech in this case for for the aims of earth repair or helping helping it initialize a community. The same with Calgary Harve is it relies on tech stack. it relies on and we're actually getting getting our getting our IT system um sort of more technically capable than it's ever been for for this next season with a lot of automation and things like that to take the workload off so that one day we can share all the tech stack and we can we can help other other um jurisdictions uh basically just pick this up and and and get going with it because the the planet and the community needs it and and and

and all that and so So, so I think in summary, I think high-tech can instigate um and help facilitate creating these these these systems that might that might once they're on the ground um might might really be fueled and powered by more more uh more low tech um um uh approaches, but but they but they help they really help initialize and instigate it. So, I'm not sure if that that addresses the question, but that's just kind of sort of my personal take on it. >> Yeah, it does. It does. I'm curious to touch also on this idea of like urban resilience like you're you've touched about how you live in an urban plot right now. Um are you uh uh you also mentioned you're moving you're you're

thinking about moving into a more rural area like do you think urban resilience is is possible? It sounds like you I'm assuming you do cuz you you like built quite a resilient lifestyle there. But like how do you view that difference between like urban resilience versus like more rural or like bigger scale like maybe like home large homestead or small homesteads up to like farm scale level like resilience? >> Well, yeah. I think there's a number of layers to this. So I I in summary I believe that urban resilience is is achievable because like it's it's it's it's because like that's where like I think there's a lot of opportunities in the urban sense because that's where most like like still now like as of I

think I don't know was it 15 years ago or something like that like mostly earth or human population now lives uh um more in an urban in in cities versus um out of cities. But it it's like there there's a lot of issues with how I think with how cities are are are are built nowadays. Um and and and like there's an argument that how how on earth could they ever be um resilient um in terms of the way the way they're built? Like we have centralized waste systems that it just takes just it just it like somebody could literally hack it and and and then all of a sudden our our central sewage

processing plants um could stop working overnight or as we've seen with the water pipes and things like that. But I think that's more of a property of like that doesn't necessarily define what a city is. Like I think that's just the way that the cities are are organized and operated right now. But it doesn't need to be the way. It's just it's it's it's just it's just the it's the it's the prevailing pattern. Um it's the industrial pattern and uh centralization uh central control. Um a dendritic but yet linear um relationship to to to a central a central point of operation and th those kinds of things. It's like the we like in our we we live on a on a on a on a

typical sized urban a lot. Um and um and it it's enorm it's it's unbelievable how much food we produce. I have to admit from even from from from a a food standpoint it's it's like we we have um um our freezer is still chalk full with berries. We eat we eat a lot of berries probably too much. uh and and all we're going to be changing our diet to almost eat berries more like closer to when they're ripe and all that and not eat them when they're not ripe. Like like I think that's a whole other conversation unto itself. But like we we still have four shelves in our freezers full of our front yard berries um and um yet still eating eating them and and and

all that. And so as we as we learn the the ground skills kind of like the low tech skills of fermenting um lack of fermenting um other uh sauerkrauts other other sort of preservation meth methods like we've seen from experience as I mentioned earlier just how me much greens uh vegetative greens that that can be produced. It's it's it's unbelievable. Um like we had so much lettuce uh cuz we just walked around and spread the seeds around like it was growing like a weed. It was actually coming out of the sides of our garden beds. It was it was on our garden pathways. It was everywhere and um and and and all that. So as we learn and then then there's like with with with

annual vegetable gardening for instance and market gardening and all that there's like time stacking um strategies that you can use while one crop is growing up but not producing it. you can have other crops that are growing alongside it that don't really interrupt its fruit system that that can be produced. So we we so as we learn time stacking uh and all that like like every square foot is going to be producing even more and more and more and all that. So, all this is to say that like if there were more people who choosing to to do this kind of thing on their properties like like like it's just crazy what could be produced in the city. You don't need you don't I I'm I'm I'm currently I'm I my current

understanding of course that could evolve as I learn new things but my current understanding um of the situation is that like we could be producing vastly more in terms of an urban population's food needs right from that right from that urban center and relying way less on the sort of the the the the rural hinterlands of where that are that are shipping food into the city into the cities um like it's a I think it's to gamechanging um um quantities and with no extra need for water because all of these could be rainwater powered like like we're we're trying to live it. We're trying to do it. We're trying to prove the concept

and the main barrier as we see it right now is our own knowledge of gardening uh which has has to has yet to improve and and and and all that and so now now and and then then you can bring in micro livestock in the city as well. We are going to be putting in a chicken system. We'll have three hens and then that's going to be connected to our compost system and and and and all that. So for for for eggs and things like that. So yeah, it's it's like a long way of saying even if an urban property couldn't feed one 100% of the food needs for for the people living on that on that property, even if we did 60 or 70%, that's a game changer. And um um and so so and and I'm just talking about food.

And so then then there's other other reasons to form community um between people as well and and and and all that. But maybe food could serve serve as a proxy because food is a pretty important um element of the triad of of um of of of components needed for for for a healthy life of course and and so so so yeah it's it's um so the opportunity I think is in the cities. It makes me wonder like on this this journey you've been on when you've been developing you this urban resilience in what ways would you say it has improved your life and also in what ways would you say it's like it's been really

hard like what have been the the biggest challenges maybe unexpected challenges that you faced on this uh transition? Yeah, like I think for for the challenges to begin off with that is is I think it is like there's there's been there's been a whole slew of like practical challenges um and and that that that that like like uh that that I think we're we're we're generally being able to overcome like like for instance even the example that I cited with our burning out of soil soil fertility and and and that that that sort of thing.

Fortunately, we have like we've been able to like a lot of these what I'll call these local challenges are are are the gamut of them are are are learning opportunities and and and so they they they actually serve as as opportunities and we we tried to adopt the mindset of like how can we change these challenges into the prescription for how we'll do things differently and and and all that. And so so we had enormous failures like just like it's it's it's we we we've really have been learning this the the hard way like like this urban homesteading. I think other larger scale challenges um that like that that we can witness um that I think are going to be

important in discussion are like it's it's how to inspire I guess I don't want to say change in this regard because like I'm I want to be mindful of that we we've chosen this path for ourselves and and it's just we we don't want we don't want to ever be in sort of the situation of saying Okay. Well, then that means other people should be doing this as as as as well. But from a practical as as as as objectively practical and and from a practical objective standpoint on the topic of resiliency as more people for instance harvest their own

rainwater, produce their own healthy food and all that like I think it's a fair it's a fair argument that that that that that's going to bode well for the the resilience in these in the stability of of the community. if if like the important food suddenly oil gets expensive and and and and and and all that um um that it's going to bode well and and and all so the challenge has been kind of like like I I'll say this so I I've like I've offered and have already already done like basically propagating edible shrubs from our garden and and saying like here's a plant it's for free this plant normally would cost you 30 bucks um here's where you could plant it and

and and all that. So, so and that that plant that plant either has been rejected like the offer has like like I'm not interested on the part of like neighbors or or things like that or that plant has been taken but it hasn't been cared for and then then then then dies because like when you plant a new garden it's like kind of like a baby you need to take care of it for its first two or three years one or two years and and and and all that but it's it's like the it's the I think the challenge is is that like and ourselves included. Is is is that is that is that like um there's definitely um almost like a there's there's there's a treadmill trap. Um that where where

where it's easy to be so consumed with the other facets of life that then kind of taking an unconventional approach to to to life and um and being on the property and all that, it almost incurs extra energy. you have to find that energy from somewhere and uh and that time from somewhere. Um and and I think for for a lot of people like we've been relatively lucky like we have jobs and things like that and we have we have we have we have we have an income and all that. That's not even that's not not even as much the case with other people.

Some people are like all they have to work two jobs and and and and it's just like it's just it's this property of the of this greater system that has this it it traps people. Um and and then it it's it's like it's harder to kind of like take a different path. Uh even though that might be a um a practically more useful path for instance at least from reducing water bills or growing their own food or or or what have you standpoint and and all that. It's not it's not easy.

>> Fully agree. I think that like what you touched upon there. I think it's like the convenience there's a certain convenience of the all the modern ways of life. >> Yeah. uh the idea of going out in a garden to grow food, maybe a little bit of like leisure time, like maybe some people are into that, but the idea of like growing your all your own food and like making your like having way more harvesting there is I think it can seem like a major leap for people that are on that that treadmill which I would suggest is partly why it's still quite niche in a way Like we saw this massive

peak in people getting interested in this way of life >> once their other stressors of work and so on were reduced somewhat and they didn't have to go into the office. They were at home a lot more. There was a this massive spike in interest in like growing your own food. And then also downstream of that like just pure resilience during that co shock. It wasn't clear what was going to happen to the centralized systems we all depend upon. So there was multiple different reasons that were yeah of pushing people towards this this lifestyle and uh I see those two trends only continuing and if we can make it easier we can like you said you're you're living it you're not

wanting to force other people into it but you're also like setting a you're you're leading from the front in a way right you're like setting an example of like hey this can be this can actually be good that can improve well-being it's healthy It's enjoyable. It's fun. It It can be done. >> We're because we're actually going to going to start doing urban tours again. um um where um where we're going to invite um basically create events where where we can invite members of the public to the yard to see and so that so that we can explain kind of how things are work and uh how how how things work and what and what it what it takes to kind of live with these things working in in in our

lifestyle because because it's just like we I still firmly believe that of like the role of of uh stories. I think it's important that the story of these things are are are told because it still has the cap still has the the capacity to to inspire um uh people then to to to take it take a different path and and like like it's it's it's there's there's especially in the cities. This is where like that critical mass can happen where like a certain number of of people take on a like an urban homestead um relatively more resilient lifestyle.

Um like and I even mentioned like the biodiversity like just as a quick aside we're seeing crazy insect populations in in in our yard uh and all that because it's an island because like a lot of a lot of the the passing species will stop over and then then they they stay. We're seeing crazy butterflies that I haven't seen anywhere else in Calgary and all that. And I do a lot of observing. I do a lot of walks and um these these like actually like biodiversity and habitat creation is is actually one of my my personally one of my primary aims for doing regenerative landscape design and all this is is like yes the community is important. growing the food and harvesting rainwater is important, but e

at least equally as important for me is the recreation of habitat and creating habitat corridors so that um other creatures uh can live like this is I discovered as of late this is one of my primary motivations for doing this. So that's that was what that's what we're trying to steward in our inner yard as well. And so so so so if like if this story is told and more people start to do this well then these these these aspects of res resiliency that we're talking about um start to unfold but then the biodiversity picture also starts unfold at the same time. So as a next step we're going to reopen or we're going to start doing these these urban um yard tours again to to try and pass the story along uh because we haven't

really been doing a good job of passing the story along. um to date because we've been entrenched in all these facets of of life like we have a yeah like we a three-year-old daughter and and and and all and all that and takes it takes time takes fantastic time and and and all that but it's just like we've we've there's there's been projects that we want want to do that has that have been on hold but now the time is coming to unhold those and to to start um getting getting on with them and that's one of them is those yard tours to pass the story but I was going to say another point I was going to quickly say is is um let me know for overtime as well. as they say, nothing nothing is free. And and and and and the thing the the thing

is is that like as we this this is kind of like a another quick sort of commentary on the challenges challenge piece is is is that is that um like when we say yes, I'm going to uh when we say yes to the city um yeah, we'll we'll pay pay you to to bring water in through a pipe or we'll the utility will pay some money to bring in natural gas through a pipe to keep our house warm. Um or we like all of these things where we kind of like hire the industrial system around us. Um which is which which which which basically creates these channels of convenience. Uh which

yeah like on one on one hand you have to be very very very grateful for. It's it's pretty crazy that we can have we can have a cold spell and we wake up and uh or we wake up in the morning and that heat has automatically turned on uh because the temperature went below 19° Celsius which was what we keep our our or 18 at night and and so then the thermostat goes and the house magically warms up and and all that these on that sense it's pretty amazing that that happens but on the other sense then it it creates it creates these layers of dependency and and and and Like I don't think my understanding is I don't think our quest is going to be becoming independent uh to like totally completely revamp our

systems so that we have no dependencies on these things. I think it's more we want to become inter uh dependent like on our urban property here for instance. I don't think we're going to be able to grow and copus all of our own fuel wood to have a wood burning stove and all that because our lot's small. But we pro we're going to be like I'm going to be learning um here starting this growing season and before the growing season uh happens is as is as is my like I'm going to be um signing up for the journey of becoming pretty I want to become pretty darn good at growing shiakei mushrooms um for instance and and I'll be more than happy to provide um somebody who is

growing small diameter high BTU um copus fuel and bring that onto the property in exchange for shiakei mushrooms uh for instance because because it's it's they can be quite productive and all and and and and and all that just as an example and and and all that. So that's that's that's an interdependency that I like I really really want to be a part of. >> Um and and it creates community as well and and all that. Um and so so so the the um I think a challenge uh has been um is is that is that like as a society we have really really really um created that dependency on these lines of

convenience um um um to such a degree that even the notion of departing from them is is almost scary and and and and and all that. We're kind of relatively locked in and and and and it it it takes a bit of um yeah, it it's it's going to be very very uncomfortable for many to kind of kind of like even >> the courage courageous >> and and and and all and and and that that's where that's where I've been as well and and all that. It it took me 10 years to kind of un unlearn uh at a conceptual level uh those things and I'm probably I think I'm still on that journey, right? like it's and it's it's not easy and all that yet I think it's relevant for this for this uh

discussion. So >> 100%. Well just to kind of pull things to a close I wanted to uh thank you for coming on and sharing your story and you mentioned there about like different commitments you've got and how that's got in the way of the storytelling you wanted to do in your local community. I wanted to say like just sitting here having this conversation with you, it's really got across to me, you know, how intentional and careful and thoughtful you've been on your journey here as you're trying to develop this local resilience and fragility. And I think I've learned a lot from from just hearing you talk about about your journey. And just to wrap things up, I wonder if you have anything to share for

someone that's maybe like you 10 years ago or 15 years ago is like starting to think about this, maybe looking at the way the world is, uncertainty, increasing polarization and and and so on and wanting to develop more local resilience like what would you say to them at this point uh to to inspire them and to to advise and guide them at this point in their journey? I'll preface that with my answer is going to be biased and so so but the bias is for me is um take regular walks spend regular times time in intact ecosystems and build the time to see how they work. um and and

like almost asked the question of like why does it this organism or that organism like like how how do I put it? It's it's like they they have found they have found a way to live. Um the the the the the practice or or the study of ecology is literally is literally about the question of how things make making make a living. I I think a lot of this conversation is is how do you make a living? Um it's like it's kind of like probably the most asked social question when you're at a party and you're getting to know someone and and usually what people ask is like hey what do you

do? because I think I I I really do think we have this this innate curiosity to uncover how people are making a living and and so so so when you so when you extend that it's it's like to the to the home and the place it's just like all we're talking about here is is like how how does one make a living and and how one makes a living is not necessarily about what your job is. That's just a part of it. Um the the the whole story is is that like how are the things that you need in order to live?

So these these energies or resources coming in, how are they met by and and by by by by other people or things that that are around you right now? We've outsourced those to literally things that are super far away and then we're kind we might be on this treadmill. Um, but the but the other part of the of of the question is is okay well what I'm producing how is that useful for other people and and and all that. And so like when we walk in the forest always we we we see these things and we can start to see these things. We can start to see well that leaf litter that falls down on the ground be below a deciduous tree is actually turning into mulch. It's the food for the fungi that are literally bringing nutrients and water and

minerals um to that tree. It's it's it's it's it's carbon and all that. Or we can see that it's protecting the the ground from from the drying rays of sunlight or wind. And so if we stick our finger in it, oh yeah, it's it hasn't rained in 3 weeks, but it's still moist, right? And that that water is necessary for life for the for these things the the these things. And so I think I think I know this is a kind of maybe it's a silly answer. That's is why I warned it's biased because how how I got into >> I love it. It's great.

>> Yeah. Like I I I ended up taking taking like a course in permaculture and it just it it completely changed my my my career. But I think I was I think it's because I I I I got to go on many walks in the forest. So I was a bit predisposed I think to it. So So but yeah, it's my nerdy answer. >> That's great advice. Like if anyone's thinking about becoming more just go for a walk. I think that's like the perfect advice ideally in a forest where you can see the health a healthy ecosystem at work. I think a lot of it's like and this it would be like potentially a destructively simplistic answer but I think a lot of the problems that we're trying to grapple with with societ society and resilience and all that um a

lot of their analogies can be found in the in these in these systems and we're suffering from the effects of these not being there I think because yeah we've abdicated responsibility for supply lines and all that to to really really long linear unresilent supply chains and and all that. But like a lot of what we're trying to solve, I think, is at least analogies thereof are found are found in in these areas and and and and all that. So, >> well, thanks a lot, Adrian. It's been great to to talk to you and I would love to talk to you again in the future once you have uh taken this next step in your journey moving into a more rural plot.

Maybe we can come back in a in a year or two, have that conversation. >> Totally. Anytime. Yeah. Thanks a lot, man. It's been a pleasure. Yeah. Yeah.