Tom Lee Buys More ETH?! PUMP Next Leg Up?! Vitalik's "World Computer"! Jumper & Aligned

Transcript

17 We'll see you around the timeline. Feels good to be back. >> I think the rollup is one of the most premier media brands in crypto. >> It's probably one of the first rollup episodes, right? Um >> adding it to my library as we speak.

potentially multi-chain deployments. >> We are at Dev Connect day one here. I'm with Jesse from Bas. Ah,

hey. JP Morgan, Black Rockck, DTCC, Fidelity, the entire thing was just institutions. It's just it's next level. This industry is going to the next level. And guys, I I don't know what else to say.

I'm bullish. >> HE SAID IT. HE FINALLY SAID IT. >> I'M SO BULLISH. >> It is bullish. I'm bullish. We're bullish. Hey.

Roll up is headed to the top. If we're not already at the top, we're going to the top. >> Roll up is my favorite. >> People from all walks of life, all over the world, all over this industry come together for the rollup. If I Zoom out. The institutions aren't

coming. They're simply here. It's the golden age of crypto, guys. Get right. Let's go. >> Welcome to the nest. See you on the show. Live, baby. We live. We live. Welcome back. September 28th, Monday on the rollup. market looks fantastic if you're in the coins that we've been talking about for the last six months and our sponsors. I mean, give it up for our sponsors. How could you not be absolutely pleased if you're a rollup enjoyer over the last four months?

You've been hearing about Zama Fracks 1 in Aligned, Plume, Near. We've got some new sponsors, some new partners that have just joined. I mean guys, it's a bull market over on the rollup. Not only are our engagement numbers up and to the right, I think my lovely co-host is going to be joining us in a moment. Andy posted that we are basically at is it a million views a month? Something like a 100,000 watch hours, 600k views per month. I mean just incredible numbers on track for a million views a month. And that's just on YouTube. So think about

once you take the roll up virality and gravity into account across Twitter, YouTube, LinkedIn and the like personal channels, brand channels. We are excited. We were talking behind the scenes. We don't know if the rollup has ever experienced a true bull market. If you guys are familiar with the rollup lore, we started back in 2020 under the guise of DeFi Slate. Andy and I met at University of Florida in 2017 in the Bitcoin club. There's about four people in the Bitcoin club, all seniors, all pretty nerdy to say the least. Andy and I got in there, some, you know, some some funny looking freshmen. And we got in there and we just started learning, just absorbing knowledge at an

incredible pace. We ended up taking over the club. The University Florida Bitcoin Club turned into the University of Florida Blockchain Club. Again, just learning as much as possible. We threw a conference on campus, the inaugural Florida Blockchain Conference. Had about 250 people there back in 2018. Deep institutional vibes. Ended up parlaying this and compounding uh that into DeFi Slate in 2020. This was in the heat of the 2020 DeFi summer.

We had a great run in 2021, ended up uh evolving into the rollup in 2022 and 2023 and now we are absolutely off to the races. And so I guess you can call 2020 2021 a bull market. But I think you know if you've been in this game a while, right? And we've been in right, we met 2016, we were dabbling 2017, right? Started DeFi Slate 2020. If you've been around that long, now that we're going on a decade in this industry, you know that what we're seeing out there right now just feels like it doesn't even feel like the 2024 cycle.

And I put that in quotes because I think what we're getting to is that wasn't even really a cycle. We're getting to a fullon macroeconomic rising tide that is lifting all boats from a very, very fundamental level. And we've got a confluence of factors. We've got the macroeconomic accommodative monetary policy as bonds the 10-year flies through five and a quarter. And we've got the legitimization of this industry and we've got regulatory bodies on on board and we've got onchain businesses hitting serious product market fit. All of this is an incredible combination of factors for the industry. The rollup has

now established itself with a foothold in this industry. Not just a foothold, but pure market dominance from a media perspective. We are getting some absolutely incredible guests on the show for you so that we can learn so that all of you can learn. And so yes, the roll-up numbers have been up and to the right in terms of sales, in terms of revenue, in terms of engagement, and in terms of pure knowledge that we gain from all of the guests, all of our partners, all of the sponsors, all of the audience, all of the team. It's been an incredible run and we are absolutely stoked to go on this journey with you.

Like I said, we are preparing for a bull market that maybe we haven't seen in a decade. And so if you guys aren't bullish, you should be more bullish because uh that's what we're seeing here on the ground floor at the rollup. Uh appreciate everyone watching. We're going to get into it. As always, we've got today's topics. Uh you can see I am in my hat. Uh my lovely, lovely hat. You guys can read it. Tell me what it says. Let me know in the chat. Let me know in the chat what my hat says. All right. Be more bullish. Um, we've got some chats already coming in. Ethereum development groups and the money flowing into them is work. Improvements on the blockchain is clear. Ethereum has the backing to

improve and control financial rails. James Rosenthal in the chat. You guys are an actual cook. Best believe it, James. Much love. Higher on cake. Ethereum development groups. Yeah, Vitalic put out an article. Um, unfortunately, I haven't gotten to read it yet. I think I will read it before uh my flight to Singapore at least. But uh very very exciting times on the Ethereum front. Bouncing hard and we believe most of the market is sidelined. It truly is one of the best places to get access to the tokenization super cycle. Uh as well as the rest of the names you see ticking along the bottom of the stream.

Today's topics we've got Jumper CEO, one of the most recent token launches. We're going to get into what it's like launching a token in September 2026. And then I'm excited. Our our final guest, our second and our last guest today is uh Align's founder. Align is deep deep in the ZK world. Uh they've done some really great work on like this ZK passport idea, especially in Latin America. I believe they've already started to get governments and municipalities in LATAM accepting their ZK identity passport. So, we're going to hear about how that is going as well as just a raw update on everything that's

happening in the Ethereum world. Obviously, Vitalic put out a hell of a post and we're going to hear exactly what he's got uh for the market. And so, guys, we're going to get into it. Uh that's today's topics. Um, I don't have the run and show in front of me, so I don't know if there's someone that we're supposed to shout out. Let's go directly into the weather and uh, keep this thing rolling. 84 degrees in Florida. I'm going to head over to the East Coast for Cybos later tonight. I've got a dinner. I've got Cybos. We've got quite a lineup. My co-host is going to be in Houston. And then we're going to absolutely bring you everything that you need to know from

Houston, from Cyos, the banking world, uh, and the enterprise finance world, and then also Robin Hood, uh, at the Hood Summit. So, it's it's a divide and conquer week here at the rollup. There's plenty that you guys want to hear about, and so it's important that we bring you guys everywhere that we are because if the rollup isn't on site at some of these conferences, it's almost like they didn't even happen. So, give us a like, give us a subscribe, give us a follow, and tell us exactly what you guys are excited about. We're going to keep things rolling. I'm going to print out the show, and we're going to give some big shout outs to our sponsors.

Big shout out to Fracks. We already know that stable coins are an economic priority here, okay? Bond yields are absolutely through the roof. We have a macroeconomic thesis that we've seen on Catrini, we've seen across the board. We believe there's a Treasury twist and they're trying to twist the duration out of the bond market. That means that they are going to stop issuing so many bonds, continue to issue more bills. And we know that stable coin stable coin companies, stable coin issuers in particular, the genius compatible stable coin issuers are the ones that will be buying up those Treasury bills. And so we are very proud to partner with Fracks. If you guys haven't seen the latest Stabled Up episode, remember

Stabled Up is our weekly stable coin segment powered by Fracks, the genius compatible stablecoin for finance at scale. And if you guys haven't seen our latest stabled up episode, then you need to head over to YouTube. You need to check out the latest episode with Nathan Macaulay from Anchorage because he's an absolute gen. He's talking to all the banks and he is quite literally the crypto bank at Anchorage. There's only a few institutional custody providers that are actually going out into the world of finance and working handtohand with these banks on an everyday basis to make sure that they are well integrated with the digital assets landscape. So make sure you check out the latest episode of

stabled up on YouTube. That's with Nathan McCauley from Anchorage and the weekly stablecoin segment. Stabled up is powered by our friends at Thrax, the open stable, borderless, and genius compatible stable coin for scale. We're going to peep into the markets. Be nice if I had my co-host on the screen for the markets. You guys know we love talking about the markets on this show. you know, our vibe here. I'll tell you, you know, we gave a little bit of the backstory around the rollup to start off the show. Um, and if you guys remember the rollup, if you were, you know, one of the early listeners of DeFi Slate

way, way back, 2020, 2021, you know, we had this saying, we had this saying, and it was educate, empower, enrich. And so, if you guys notice, our show has still maintained that throughine in pretty much everything that we do, right? We want to give you the tools and the knowledge so that you can be empowered and you can take your financial life into your own hands. We want to make sure that you are educated on the decisions that you're making. And we're going to bring together some of the smartest people in the world. Andy and myself have amassed a ton of takes, a ton of knowledge. Andy's on the screen now. Welcome to the show, co-host. I'm giving everyone a little bit of a rundown on where we've been, where we are now. You guys remember educate, empower, enrich, and now we are

continuing to bring you all of the takes, all of the scoops so that you guys are well informed. We're going to tell you all the implications of the scoops from genius takes all across the board so that you can take matters into your own hands. And of course, we're going to sum that up and we're going to ask everyone who they're betting on, who are the fastest horses in this race. Zcash is up 82.83% this week. It is a very fast >> that's in a month. That's in a month near the 30 change up here. >> 170% in a month.

Venice up 66. Zama 52. Lighter 24. Wow. >> Hyperlid 7%. ETH 10, Bitcoin 8. We don't have pump fund on here, but boy oh boy, that thing looks ready to explode. We have taken some very aggressive positions in pump uh in this consolidation. We are expecting pump fun to do very well uh in this period of the market ahead. It is one of the leaders of the z hyper pump uh category right is one of the leaders there. I'm clearly still in my uh I'm clearly still in my euphoria mode. Um I am just hanging out on the beach going to Houston today flying for the Robin Hood Summit later.

I'm long pumped. I think it's going to do great. I think it's going to be one of the best performing tokens from now till the end of the year. Andy, let's talk about that. Why do you think Pump is going to be one of the best performing tokens from now until the end of the year? Its revenue numbers are insane. The market did not assess its durability as it should have. People did not realize that Pump is going to be a multiple multiple cycle project. It's going to be a forever company in crypto most likely. And people have forgotten how powerful these flywheels can get. All it takes is a couple big runners on pump and that token is going to absolutely explode. It

is one of the fastest growing horses in terms of businesses on chain. 50% buybacks. Has a ton of growth on their social app. They've onboarded half of crypto Twitter to promote it. The token is literally called pump. Like it's literally called pump. How can you go wrong with a token called pump? It's going to pump. There's a left curve. There's a right curve here. It's very obvious. Pump is going to do extremely well. We're positioned heavily. We're expecting a breakout. We think it's going to be one of the outperformers. Anom is calling for a 20x in terms of its fair value. I think I think we could have a very strong run into the end of the year, especially if we get the best treasury buybacks, the shortterm dur uh short short duration T bills. And yeah,

I mean, we're ready to go. So that's the pump thesis and that's where I think that we go from here. >> Amazing. Okay. I think it's interesting if you see the chart that we have up. You'll notice that this is these are the coins that we're monitoring. Additionally, we've got pump on the board now. 9% up today. You know what we're seeing is like these sporadic runners, right? And it's not just memecoin runners, but it's happening at like the major uh market cap level as well. And so I mean if you look at the last month, everything is up and to the right. But then you've got a little bit of divergence when you start to look at what is pulling back and what is running. Obviously pump in the last week and in the last day continuing to run.

You've got some pullbacks. Zama lighter pulling back a little bit near pump continuing to run. And so if I'm thinking broadly, right, I I think >> we're going to see some standout winners, but then we're also, you know, I I was on the show and I was talking about how I I thought that the revenue meta might might have been dead. I was talking about how I think, you know, the market is a little bit more, you know, narrative driven than fundamentals and revenue driven because for so long near and, you know, pump these were the things that were leading the market. I don't I I I'm going to evolve my thesis, right, and stay and again I think it's always important to stay open-minded

here and you know strong opinions loosely held. I think revenue matters. I think narratives also matter. And so I'm going to revise my thesis. Not that you know we moved from the revenue meta to the narrative meta and this is one substituting the other, but I think now we're in a position where both of these things matter. And so pump and near and hyperlquid and lighter and zama and frack and these things that have real revenue, they're going to continue to run. I think they have a strong foundation. And when we do see a pullback in the market, >> the things with revenue are going to have the highest and the strongest floor. And so I think that's why on a

day like today when we see some things start to pull back a little bit, we're going to see pump and hyperlquid and near continuing to hold up pretty well. Then as you go, I think we will start to see uh sector outperformance. And so my thesis that I've been talking about that we haven't seen validated in the market yet is that DeFi is about to go on a generational run. >> Why why is DeFi about to go on a generational run? I think DeFi and DeFi in particular on Ethereum is at a point where it is going to get rerated massively because the TAM is expanding for new asset classes. We're going to see an influx of assets and we're going

to see so much in value added into these protocols and then those protocols are going to monetize on that TVL. And so tokenized equities is obviously the lowest hanging fruit. I believe a just announced that they're adding Coinbase equities on base. They basically just integrated the Mag 7 and there's deep liquidity for that. But this is very very early days. And so I'm incredibly bullish on DeFi at large. And I think another reason why isn't just the tokenization super cycle. It's not just that Ethereum is the best place to get exposure to the tokenization buildout and DeFi is beta on Ethereum and it is the protocols and the venues that will

rerate with these higher assets. But it's also that we haven't seen DeFi really run. I think it has been underpriced and it's been flying under the radar and things like privacy and AI and compute and all of these things and per those things have taken the lion share of the attention and I think that you know you want to skate to where the puck is going and I think if you've been in near and you've been in hyperlquid you're doing great you probably don't need to do anything right but if you are thinking about what's next and you're thinking about kind of taste making your portfol folio for the future. I think DeFi is one of those categories that

hasn't quite had its run in the sun and I think that is potentially the destination that we could see a rotation and flow of funds into as a category. >> So I'm extremely bullish Ethereum and DeFi. I don't know if it happens tomorrow. I don't know if it happens next week or next month. But I do think that as the tokenization buildout continues, DeFi will be one of the primary recipients of the rotation trade. >> All right, guys, let's get into the news. Of course, our digital assets is always powered by our friends at Zama tokens cooking. Enough said. Get in there on their morpha. Check out their privacy preserving technology on chain.

Before we get to the news, let me tell you about one of our lovely, lovely, dearest partners. The show near.com, specifically the rollup.nneer.com er.com is your go-to for trading on chain. One account, no borders, your financial life on chain. Sign up at the rollup.nneer.com and get 20% off trade fees paid to you directly in near. I'll put that in the chat. The rollup.ne.com. 20% off trading paid back to you in near tokens. Yes, guys. All right, Rob. The Grifters are back over the weekend. I'm not sure if you saw Jack Doherty, a relatively famous Miami guy, uh decided that it would be a good idea to launch a

memecoin on FOMO and then completely pump it up, pump it up, pump it up, and then sell it all into clips. Uh so we are now looking at a proprietary graph by that 1816 guy, 161 18 guy who's absolutely been dialed in the market and he's saying that his Grift Index is expecting us to have more coins launched by celebrities. What's your take here, Rob? I mean, look at this coin. I mean, he bought it, bought it, bought it, and then just instant nuked it on the way down. Instant. Oh, it's going to 20 mil. It's going to 100 mil. Boom. He made like 200 grand on it. Look at the sales.

Total scam. >> I think the um the biggest issue with this was that uh >> he tweeted that he was never going to sell. >> Yeah. >> And a couple hours later, he he sold. And so that I think is a big problem. That's huge grift and that's crime. I do think that launchpads and meme coins and social trading is a phenomenon that will continue to expand. I don't think that we're at the top. And so I do agree with the take above. And maybe I'm too much of an optimist here because sure >> maybe people lost money on this.

>> They definitely did. You know, I actually think we just we've tried Memecoin so much and it's because there's there's something here. There's so much noise and there's so much grift and I don't know exactly what this is going to look like when we ultimately figure it out figure it out like but if you look at like what is Anomscoin doing right now? Is it >> just chopping around? It's just chopping around. I I just I do still think that people want to financialize their own attention span, >> right?

>> And I think people are going to want to monetize that. And so I do think that >> there is like a kernel inside of this that is actually valuable. >> I just I don't know what it looks like in practice. I I actually think like >> What do you mean? There's like like you're trying to justify this behavior. >> No, no, I'm not trying to justify this behavior. I mean, he tweeted that he was going to he was going to never sell and then he sold. That's just lying. So, I don't justify that. >> What I'm justifying is memecoins and and in particular like celebrity or attentionbacked meme coins.

>> Sure. like you know someone at Base Camp back in September of 2025 I believe it was Zora's founder whose name escapes me but he said something like you know that people have a good time trading these while they exist and it was relevant it was related to content coins and so you know if you take the idea of a meme or a you know boil that down to like just a tweet on average a tweet you know let's say it gets posted right now it's going to have some increase right where it gets perpetuated and propagated

throughout the algo and people see it and then they share it and then it gets you know more attention >> but once that starts coming down >> it the attention evaporates quickly because people are on to the next and so we know that the life cycle of a tweet or a meme is much shorter than the life cycle of say a company right you've got companies like Apple been around you know 30 40 50 years maybe it exists another 30 40 50 years and so the life cycle of a company that you traded on the you know public stock market with equities you know the life cycle of that could be a hundred years the life cycle of a tweet or a meme could be a 100

minutes but I think there is actually something valuable that it provides for you just over a much shorter time frame. And so, can you derive any sort of value financially from this game or this meme that you know you can you can capitalize on over the next 100 minutes, whether that just be an entertainment value or, you know, there is some intrinsic value to it, I don't know. But I do think that you know people have such a such a a positive experience that these companies right they go up they provide value in the market and you can take part in that value that the company provides and that

may occur over a hundred years. If you take you know the hundred minutes of a tweet or a meme it's pretty much the same thing. it goes up. It brings people value in terms of attention or entertainment or some other utility, knowledge, information that's propagating through this meme or through this tweet. It's just on a much shorter life cycle. And so, if that's the only dimension that's different, I still think that a lot of a lot of similar value can be derived from these things and by financializing these things again, just on a much shorter time frame. So, I don't know exactly the right way to frame this or the user experience to make sure that people don't get burned, but you know, all good things come to an end.

>> I hear you on like it's just the it's the attention span, the like the like the hold time, everything. I mean, look, I don't want to sit here and intellectualize this and give it too much more attention, but you're right, like there's different time frames for these types of things. And the issue is that the time frames that we're operating in with these types of launches are just so short and so shortsighted that >> there's not even any logic to even apply here other than just stay out of >> that's the way the world is going. And so there is people that tra like we've been talking about the transition of people from sports gambling to trading right on FOMO.

>> There are people that bet on like the next play. Like there's people that play like first order parlays, right? Like five to 10 to 15 minute time horizons. That is their window of time that they're operating in. >> So this memecoin or tweet or attention coin is operating on a very similar time frame to that industry. But again, it's just once it's over, it's over. And it's just about what kind of value you can derive while it's happening. So I don't think there's anything necessarily malicious or bad about the fact that this is just the same kind of financial construct just happening on a much

shorter time horizon. the what's bad about this is the the crime and the grift and people you know lying in public with respect to these things >> and then not realizing that it's onchain like it's just it's >> and the market manipulation all that is terrible but I don't see anything inherently terrible about uh financial market construct that lasts for about 15 minutes and then it's gone >> all right guys intellectualizing let's get into actually what's happening here >> well firsty let tell you about Zama because Zama is our privacy related partner. These guys are absolutely crushing when it comes to fully homorphic encryption which is finding use cases left, right, and center for

institutional grade DeFi. And so Zama is actually I think one of the reasons why Zama is doing particularly well as of late is because it's at the confluence of factors. It's at the confluence of privacy as well as DeFi. And that's why I think we're really really seeing Zama take off. So really proud and grateful to be partnered with Zama on the privacy and the DeFi front. Let's keep going. Um the headines Tom Lee acquired 17,362 tokens over the last week. ETH 17,362 Ethereum. What is that guys? 17,000 times 2700 that is 4,68 sorry 46 million877,400.

>> That's right. worth of Ethereum out acquired. >> That's right. But I think what's more important also what we what we happen to have on the screen right now is a summary of Vitalic's >> white paper or road map explanation. >> And so you're absolutely right that Tom Lee did acquire about 6 million. Uh he's got in total 6 million ETH. Uh and so that is nearly at his 5% of the network magic. So, he's almost done buying, but he also went on a podcast recently and talked about recently and talked about getting to 10%. So, we don't know if he's done buying. We'll see. But, I do think that Vitalik's paper is part of why we're going to see a massive

rerating in Ethereum. >> Um, >> talk us through that. What's the what's the thesis there, >> Kevin? Look, I haven't read >> First, maybe just take this Let's just take this tweet paragraph by paragraph and then I'm curious what what you think. >> All right. So Ethereum as a cryptographic world computer was essentially what Vitalik was describing. He's describing a thesis which expands Ethereum beyond executing transactions >> and towards becoming a global verification layer powered by advanced cryptography. And this is an extrapolation of the rollup ccentric roadmap to the fullest extent. Take the rollup ccentric road map and then take it to the nth degree. That is what Vitalic is describing because he's talking about an

infinite amount of roll-ups off picture basically off-chain compute if you take a rollup to its fullest extent. Any kind of compute but then verified on Ethereum and this is the kind of ZK magic that we've been talking about for a long time Andy. I mean, I remember having conversations with Nick White in a podcast studio around ZK lazy bridging and how you can take any sort of modular space that just exists in the ether and you can basically build a ZK verification service that connects that part that economic zone to any other economic zone. And you can do that with ZK verification and you can take the state of that zone and you can verify it

and then you can pick that up. You can verify that take that verification anywhere you want. And so picture Andy I actually remember the conclusion that we drew in that room was that you are a rollup. I am a rollup. We all have our own individual economic zones. You take your ZKver verified economic zone account of yourself. full context file. You verify the statefulness of that file on Ethereum and anyone else can go and pull that verification and prove what you're doing economically and use that to trigger smart contracts on some other economic zone as you're transacting with people as you're doing some of these financial exchanges and transactions on.

>> So basically basically what this tweet is saying you can basically have every part of an app having to execute inside a smart contract. You can push a whole huge amount of complexity elsewhere and still inherit Ethereum censorship resistant and >> guarantech verify onchain. >> A lot more of the smart stuff behind a financial product can happen outside of a given smart contract while Ethereum still acts as a final layer that checks the rules or followed to make sure that the money moves exactly as it should. >> So you got like this kind of what was Lrange and a couple of other teams what it was called? They were like a ZK marketplace if I remember correctly like a prover marketplace where you had some people that were providing cryptographic you know ZK compute and they were saying

hey I will supply the proof you give me money and I'll give you your proof. Yeah, Ethereum is kind that's a decent analogy. Ethereum is kind of turning into something like that because the verifiers, right, the validators of Ethereum are just validating ZK proofs, right? So, you have >> and I don't know if Ethereum or if Vitalic really went into who is doing the proving. I would have to dig a little bit deeper because there was talk about enshrining a zk verifier which would be verifi which would be doing the proofs and then the validators would be checking the proofs and validating them.

I don't know if that is the case. It does seem like based on what we've heard with respect to mega and some of these other constructions. You know, Vitalic has talked about decentralizing Ethereum, but not necessarily decentralizing block building, decentralized block verification. And if that same principle applies, then I could see the future at least in the near term that we get centralized ver uh centralized proving but decentralized verification very similar to the way that we get centralized block building and decentralized block validation.

>> So, we'll see. But this is this is where we're headed. Compute offchain, verify onchain. Applications can perform arbitrary arbitrarily complex computation elsewhere and use zk proofs to prove the result to Ethereum. And then obviously once you prove it to Ethereum, the global settlement layer anywhere, you know, can pick up that result from Ethereum. >> So last thing on this for you question, do you think institutions understand this >> and do you think they'll see the power of this? How do you think this kind of turns into a bid?

>> I don't think the institutions see this. I don't think they understand it yet. I think they need people like you and I and other smart people in Ethereum to explain it to them. And I think we will. And this is something like like look, I mean, you know, when you have futuristic people that are like thinking far out, it takes a little while for the market to catch up. Yes, the market is forwardlooking, but there's a reason why, you know, Vitalik is like at least a few years ahead, right? And so when he puts out a paper like this, it's going to take some time for people to understand it and wrap their mind around and realize the implications and ultimately transform that into, wow, this is bullish and I

will therefore buy Ethereum. I think people are just going to see this. They're going to see the sentiment around it and it will happen sooner rather than later. But I think particular to your question was institutions. I don't necessarily think institutions are going to wrap their head around it right now. I think it is going to take people like you and me and Tom Lee and Joseph Shalom and Joseph Luben and other people that are kind of like the the stewards of Ethereum in the institutional world to explain it to them to explain the implications and ultimately the market forces.

So yeah, I look I think this is going to happen over time. Another um implication of this is that MEV moves upstream. So if execution becomes increasingly solverd driven, value capture may shift towards the actors controlling computation, order flow and information creating new me dynamics. What I think that means is that's incredibly bullish for the application layer. I mean what I see from Vitalic in this paper and again I will I will read it. I haven't actually read I've just read people's takes on it >> but >> I I I think this is a push away from like >> this is like rejection of all the people that saying that are saying Vitalic you need to solve ETH's like revenue crisis.

>> Yes. And a push basically different direction. >> He basically said you hire we don't need revenue. We don't need to solve that. Oh, I'm like, I don't care about your buybacks. I'm trying to literally build the backbone of >> financial rails on chain and I'm not thinking about how much money I'm going to make today. I'm thinking about >> ethos driven decision-m for so for removing middlemen and building the global financial ledger. And I don't want to spend too much more time on this because I'd like to get to this SpaceX starship. We have our first guest. But I agree, Rob. He's thinking he's like basically saying, "F you. F your revenue. I'm going big. I'm taking a swim for the 10,000x here. Yeah. Uh ETH price will catch up. The narrative will

catch up to to the market to the fundamentals higher and I'm aligned. I think it's the right approach. In the bull market, it it works great. In the bear, you get a lot of questions. Guess where we're at? We're in the pre-bullto bull phase. >> Yeah, this is going to work perfectly. this narrative, the world computer coming back in the bull market with institutional allocators, agentic finance, stable coins, tokenized assets. It's going to hit Wall Street like crack. >> Yeah, >> Ethereum, >> I think. So, >> supercomput world computer cryptographic world computer narrative is going to hit Wall Street like crack. Let's keep it rolling. My last one here. SpaceX Starship returns to Earth, touches down in the Pacific Ocean. Congrats, Elon.

Congrats to all the people a part of that uh journey who you know obviously there was nobody in the ship I don't believe but I believe it was just an unmanned ship. I'm not sure. I have to triple check there. Let's just go ahead and ask Grock. Was there anybody in the Starlink Starship that landed today or was it unmanned? It appears that it was unmanned, entirely unmanned. They launched it 14th test flight from Starbase, Texas earlier this morning. The primary objective of the uncrrewed mission was to reach Earth's orbit for the first time and deploy a real payload of 26 next generation Starlink V3 satellites. The Starship successfully deployed the satellites and completed its de-orbit burn to splashdown in the Pacific Ocean

north of Hawaii. No crew or astronauts on board and they've all been uncrrewed. This is a massive massive massive massive news. The cost to send matter to space, Robbie, is drastically decreasing. This is the ethos of SpaceX. The SpaceX thesis is that over the next 10 to 20 years, it's going to be the biggest company in the world because the the we are going to drastically reduce the cost to send matter to space. We are going to exponentially scale the revenue of Starlink, of anti-uclear defense satellites, of automated robotic humanoids, of SpaceX telecom. We're

going to scale rapidly the revenue, the cost to bring any matter to space. Any matter, anything to space is going down exponentially. Elon Musk is going to take us to Valhalla. I am growing and accumulating SpaceX as my only non-conentrated bet outside of the digital asset market. I'm extremely bullish and I think over a 10-year time horizon, this is going to be an absolute home run. >> Bullish, SpaceX, >> I will see you on Mars. Would you go to Mars?

>> I don't know, man. Maybe if I had some life extension technology like 400 years from now and I was still 27, I'd go to Mars. >> Well said, guys. In this world. Yeah, right. Who knows? Uh, we're gonna bring up our first guest, uh, Marco, CEO of Jumper. We're gonna give him a big congratulations and, uh, we're going to get him up. I think he's ready in the back. He is the CEO of Jumper. And Jumper announced on September 25th of this month, just a few days ago, that it is spinning out of Lei as an independent company with its own team, capital, and identity, and dare I say token. And so Marco taking the CEO seat formally. He's been a friend of the show for a long

long time. >> A friend in real life. A friend of the show. Dom loves the SpaceX show. Yes sir brother. >> I absolutely love it. The split between Jumper and Lei separates two missions that had grown apart. Lei now used by more than 1,400 enterprises. Builds the infrastructure powering wallets, fintex, exchanges, and AI agents. While Jumper is built for the end user. Jumper will still be powered by Lei. So, it's not like they're enemies. They're still friends here. The numbers behind the move are substantial. More than $40 billion in lifetime volume. Did you know that Andy?

>> So many clients. They're absolutely smashing it. >> Guys, it's been an absolute pleasure. I'm off to the Robin Hood Summit in Houston. Stay active on my page. I will have so much coming for you guys this week. We will not be live. Robbie, maybe a Friday stream if you're up for it. If I'm up for it, we'll see. Um, we'll see. That's TBD. There will be no more streams after today, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. Robbie's in Miami at Cyos. I'm going to be down in Houston for the Robin Hood Summit. I'm literally packing my bags as we speak. Getting out on the plane in about two hours. Robbie's going to crush it with Marco. I see him in the back. Marco, love you, brother. And uh enjoy the show, guys. I will see you guys in Houston later this week. I I got

updates coming from Vlad, the Robin Hood team. You know, there's big names there. Kathy Wood's going to be there. Uh David from Banklist is going to be there. Uh Vlad's got a speech Tuesday night at 5:30. I'll be live uh live, you know, posting that with my content producer on site. We got interviews, announcements, scoops. Rumor mill will be firing. I'll see you guys then. Rob, enjoy. Marco, he's a friend of the show, a friend from many conferences. Too many stories to tell. Some of them able to be told on the stream, others not. Much love. Enjoy it. and I will see you guys on the other side.

>> All right. All right. All right. Andy's got a flight to catch, so we wish him safe travels over to the Robin Hood Houston event. And we're going to bring up, like you said, friend of the show, Marco, CEO of Jumper. Uh, exciting times over there. Absolute fired up. We're going to miss Andy for this one, but Marco, welcome to the show, brother. It's a pleasure to have you. You are uh I believe you are who gave me this hat. This is actually a jumper hat. Yes, indeed. It's a very timely one as well. Uh, it's one of my favorite pieces of merch we've uh we've issued so far. Same here. It is. It is absolutely one of my favorite. I've been wearing it on the show significantly and uh quite a few times over the last

couple of weeks. Marco, man, I don't know if you've been on the show, but it feels like you have cuz we hang out, you know, at all of these conferences, but it's exciting times. Just I I mean, I gave you a hell of an intro by the way before you came on. I mentioned that Jumper announced on September 25th that it's spinning out of Lei, an independent company with its own team capital and identity. Marco is taking the CEO seat and uh Lei supports 1,400 enterprises, done over $40 billion in lifetime volume, over 100,000 monthly active users, top spot among aggregators by bridging volume at more than 15% market share, and the list goes on. And so, Marco, man, I mean, talk to us about what it's like at Jumper these days.

talk to us about how you're feeling. You've got some very very significant things coming up and you're on your you're on your own. Jumper is now taking on a life of its own separate from Levi. So, just welcome to the show. How are you feeling? >> Thank you. Um stressed, uh anxious, uh scared, uh but also incredibly excited. It hasn't been this much fun, I guess, to work in a in a long time. um especially when a whole team rose towards such a unifying goal uh in the end. Um and and thank you for the intro.

Yeah, I don't remember. I think I don't think I've been on the show before, but I'm always close to the show. Um we go go way back. Um yeah, it's been a it's been a path to get here. Um the complexity, this is the largest crypto conference in the world. Heat. Heat. The last one last We get

know we get deep. Get deep know we get deep know we get deep know we get deep we get deep know we get deep we get we get deep we get deep we get we We get you know we get deep.

We get deep. We get deep. You know we get deep. We get deep. We get deep. You know we get deep. We get deep. We get deep. You know, we

get deep. We get deep. We get deep. You know, we get deep. know we get deeper. We get deep know we get deep know we get deep we get deep know we get deep >> All right guys we're back um we've got Marco CEO of Jumper um and we're going to be talking about all the exciting things that are happening at Jumper uh as I mentioned I mean we'll just run through it one more time for the for the vibes you guys know I've got the hat on. It is a jumpercooded hat. 100,000 monthly active

users, $40 billion in lifetime volume, 15% market share over on LeFi. And now Jumper is taking on a life of its own. So Marco, maybe you could explain what the state of Jumper is. Where is Lei? Where is Jumper? And how are these two things progressing? >> Yeah. Um so as pretty much everybody knows Jumper was incubated and and subsequently funded uh by Lehi for the past four years. Um by and large of those four years we already kind of operated as a separate division within the company. This moves what it signifies is basically complete uh independence on decision-m uh economics roadmap uh etc. And so this is something

we've been building towards for uh quite a long time now. But it is also something that was uh incredibly difficult to execute. Uh as you can imagine, carving out a company uh or a venture outside of a you know venture funded company that kind of uh was our birth was not uh an easy task. And so we've throughout the past year kind of worked to get to to to this moment. So there's announcements of two weeks but about almost a year of work crammed uh into making it happen. Um the team in general is super excited uh because this gives them more breathing room uh in a way. Lei will always be the underlying uh infra provider. We always choose to

build kind of with the best products. Um and even today we kind of have products that uh center around that. But Lei stays as the uh kind of penultimate crosschain infra uh that we build our products uh build our products with. Right. Yeah. Beautiful. Awesome. And so, you know, obviously I think we all saw the announcement. You guys are uh preparing for a very significant milestone in Jumper's history. And so give us a sense of, you know, in September of 2026, obviously the market is in a very different place now than it was even just a few weeks ago. But why now? What

makes this the right market condition to ultimately take Jumper into a post token environment? >> Yeah, sadly we couldn't time the market conditions. We were maybe a bit more fortunate that uh it it aligned. Um I think the lion's share is the uh structure of the spin out and of the new company. Um I personally and a lot of us within the company have u very bad opinions on double dipping structures meaning uh when you have a token and an equity uh which is basically you know almost like a similar claim um to the same underlying structure. Um and it just took a long time for us to be able

to figure out a way how do we do it in a no equity manner. Um so the only way to participate in jumper is through the jump token. There is no equity never will be any equity and there's no way that you know uh cream gets depicted by the private investors while the token holders kind of left holding the bag. Um and that was one of the most important principles uh to go into this and this was the one that took the lion share of time uh to orchestrate in this manner. >> Yeah. Incredible. And so you know one of the things that we've been talking about on this show has been the revenue meta.

This is something that has been in existence for like over a year or two and it is something that we all see in the market. I think you know given that we've got this uh reflexivity towards fundamentals right we see the leaders of the market right now they're things like hyperlquid and lighter and pump and near things with real real revenue and that ultimately is what drives some of the demand for the token and so when you're thinking through like conceptually the kind of construct that you have for this token can you give us any insight into what the economics look like at Jumper given that you know you're kind of talking about this token as sort of a claim on

the revenues what is the revenue profile for Jumper right now today. >> Yeah. So a we deliberately didn't charge for years because we were fortunate enough that we could sacrifice revenue for growth. Um that stopped in around July advanced or advanced trading was the first product that we launched with uh fees. Um subsequent to that we launched the RWA page which also came with fees and uh last week we basically implemented fees across the product. Um few bips small enough uh for users to still get the best net rate but uh decent enough for us to build uh a business around and subsequent new products that are coming are also coming with uh with fees. So at the current run

rate with we're basically counting like 30% turn on uh the volume it would be about 1.3 to 1.5 million uh annualized um with per not being launched yet uh and we believe that per will be also a major uh revenue driver for for the company happy to talk about that in uh subsequent >> let's do it I mean te tell us about the per landscape because it's something that we've believe in uh it's one of the most widely adopted modalities for you know expressing interest on these markets. So tell us how you think about turning Jumper from, you know, a consumer-driven aggregator into a pers product.

>> Yeah. Um, we've kind of proven the model, I guess, with the bridge aggregation. Um, given the proliferation of perp dexes or I'll just call them order books. Uh, basically for me, the way I'm thinking about it, order books are very akin to bridges 3 four years ago. Uh, there's going to be a lot more of them. They're going to be very specialized. Every asset issuer will have uh their own order book. And I we never kind of understood why would a user need to be cemented into that ecosystem or just trade there, right? Uh depending on the types of trades you're doing, assets you're trading. Uh there's always differences between different venues in, you know, incentives, fees, slippage, funding rates, etc. And so

what is missing for us is the UX layer that combines them in the same manner that three years ago the pitch was you know don't go you don't need to go research different bridge uh or or something how to get to a chain you have everything offered uh on jumper as routes it's a very similar mental model to how we think about uh aggregating order books and so the end product is a UX win not a liquidity win we inherit the liquidity of any underlying order book But we compete on the UX side what we can offer to the user as a benefit in comparison to using just one uh order book directly. And so just for an example, if you have, you know, a unified uh margin account that connects

to all of the order books, let's say you have, you know, four, five, six, seven, doesn't matter. Then you have one-click strategies to do funding rate arbitrage. You can do carry trades. You can do things like I'm going to open an a ETH long loop it, and I'm going to short ETH to get the funding rate on Harper Liquid, for example. And you can do all of that in basically one click. And so the bet is that in the next two years we're going to see more order books pop up. They're going to be more specialized and there's going to need to be a UX layer that combines that for the users for the best rating experience.

>> I I completely agree. I I do think that especially as we expand the asset universe on chain to include things like tokenized equities, include things across commodities, all kinds of different asset classes. We're going to get all kinds of very creative and unique pairings, right? And we already see this where people are pairing, right, like tokenized equities with memecoins. People are going to do all kinds of very, very wacky things and it's going to get really fragmented across all those different use cases. So, we're going to need a way to express this in a very tasteful, very smooth and easy to understand UX. And it sounds like Jumper is that it's basically like, look, you've got all of this interconnected, you know, onchain

economy underneath. We're going to be the UX layer that gives you an interface into all of that. And there there's going to be, you know, primarily a game of distribution. like that is primarily where you guys are looking to compete. So maybe you can just tell us again like in September 2026 it feels like we are in a fundamentally new paradigm than we've been the last few months, few years. Talk me through how you see distribution in Q3, Q4, 2026 and beyond. >> I think it's very poised to grow in general. I think for the past four years what we've done well at Jumper is always find a way to innovate on the acquisition side. So just to give a bit

more context uh we launched the Jumper loyalty pass about I think three years ago now. It's one of the longest running uh or not oneoff industry through which we uh funneled about $9 million of incentives to uh to users. what the incentives were and what the partners were always changed but what didn't change is that our users always had a benefit of using a jumper so you have a good product and then on top you were uh kind of getting rewarded and I think that won't stop I think it it it just gets more complex we have um you know that many order books uh competing but the the easy framing is we inherit the strengths and alleviate the weaknesses of each while at the same

time already have a proven model for user acquisition. So even though we've never charged fees up until so far, Jumper had a positive user acquisition cost from day one because we were very good at figuring out who the right partner is for our users. It never felt forced. Users were already doing something they're interested in, but now they were getting rewarded for it. Um, and I think that this is a model that we're taking into u into purp and every subsequent product uh that that we launch as well. Um the reality is that it is getting harder because people you know and competitors are getting smarter. Uh but I think that's you know good for us in a way where every time so far when that happened we stepped up

step a notch uh and reevaluated ourselves and did something differently uh that people then caught up. We're actually thinking of topics for uh what to talk about in these videos for launch and stuff and you actually forget a lot of things but loyalty pass this was 3 months before I points so first with that we were the first ones who gave the intern the account if you remember back then everybody had an intern account we were like who's going to maintain two accounts just you know do the intern account on the main account then they that became a meta Pepz became a meta we forced them basically into into like more company related narrative uh at that time the uh pass as an acquisition model as well like the earlier model as

I I was explaining to to people to understand is it's kind of like Facebook pixel what it was in 2011 2012 2013 in the middle sits jumper who has the users and knows what these users need and what they do on the other side are the protocols who need these users as well and so we basically be making engine uh between these two and obviously that served us well from a user acquisition perspective. And so this is kind of the same thinking just more advanced that we're going into per other subsequent products. >> Very cool. And you know, I can't help but think about it, Marco, like a lot of the things that you're doing in terms of distribution, like that's what we do on a daily basis. A lot of it is like a very very similar approach because ultimately, you know, you're you're

passing through and making sure that people get the best product experience, but you kind of reach, you know, that is kind of like the critical, you know, table stakes and then everything else on top is just going and growing more and more and more. >> Correct. I'm I'm curious kind of my last question here is how you're thinking about some of the social elements because we've seen applications you know such as FOMO for instance and it feels like now you know once you separate Jumper and Lei you kind of have Jumper is you know more of a social application than it is more like a aggregator like Lei because you're you're really you know getting distribution for all of the

protocol mechanisms underneath. And so how do you think about social elements? How are you thinking about going and like implementing things like copy trading or you know public leaderboards or any kind of social elements to ultimately broaden this so that it becomes less of a you know consumerf facing like finance product and more of a consumerf facing social finance product. >> Yeah, I think you know a props to FOMO they've uh figured a good good model. Um I I take a step back. usually like there there's two things in FOMO and Jupiter for example that I look at and that is Jupiter has owned one chain and ecosystem from a pricing and quoting perspective really well um and proved

that you can do that on for all assets in one ecosystem versus FOMO who has proven that if you do just meme coins well you can do it on any chain and abstract the chain and so taking these two models together what this means for Jumper or what we intend to do with Jumper is doing it all chains all assets uh completely abstracted. Basically remove these kind of barriers. Now when we get into the social side of it um I'm kind of reluctant to add these things uh specifically because they work for maybe an asset class. I'm not so sure they work across asset classes. Um even today when we interview a lot of people that use FOMO, especially that have size,

it's usually using it just for the social side. uh meaning like getting some discoverability but then you still go to your you know DEX bridge aggregator of choice uh to uh actually execute these trades and uh we think that we don't need to go so far on the social side first offer the connectivity well like obviously some things if users want them they will come um but the fullon social meta uh seems is very memecoin specific uh versus all assets because in the end people that will trade you know Nvidia heavily or you know ETH or any of the larger assets I

don't think they're as comfortable of uh popping their wallets up uh and showing and then subsequent to that even I don't know how people usually tend to look at it but when I see someone trading on FOMO I kind of think of it as a signal this is not their first bag uh nor their first buy right this is just a signal for to kind of create a lot of buzz about other people buying their tokens, but they probably got their bags uh earlier on another wallet and and stuff like that. So, I'm not really sure how durable that is as a business model, but I do have to hand it to them that they did uh really well on this initial discoverability of what to even look at.

Uh because the proliferation of terminals and deck screeners, etc., you get more information, but you don't necessarily get more informed. um it's still a lot to sift through and this kind of gave a new version of a signal or alpha uh that that people can look at. So like to to cut it short, open to it, not sold in a business model and not something that I want to drag Jumper into uh just because it works in some other app. >> Yeah, ma makes complete sense. And so, uh, Marco, like, as you're thinking about like what the next six months to a year looks like, I mean, I guess the last question here is what are you looking to achieve, you know, give us some, you know, the north star here?

Like, what is the north star that you're looking to achieve with Jumper, the Jumper token, and give us some milestones. What are you looking to achieve, you know, over the next 6 to 12 months? >> Yeah. Um, so I I guess the overarching goal is to get out of the swap and bridge aggregator shell. uh the new products that we're having. The goal for the next 6 to 12 months is validate them through usage and revenue that we go towards super app for onchain finance. We need all of these products to work really well in order for people to actually have everything on one UI and the best metric for that is basically revenue. Uh because there's no equity structure, Jumper is the only vessel for value acrruel. The way we prove this is by generating revenue. So the goal for

the next 6 to 12 months is to get to 2 to 3 million revenue which is basically starting from you know almost zero now given that we were pre-revenue until uh this moment. Um, and then focusing that all of the products that we have, meaning PERPS, Advanced, Earn, RWA, are best-in-class that the best traders with the highest size specifically use our products. And that is my mission, Octav's mission, and everybody in the team to make these products in everyone's faces. And once they use them, there's no going back. >> I love it. Absolutely love it. Congratulations. I mean on the CEO role but then also the big milestone uh that is coming up very soon for Jumper and you know the bifurcation between Jumper and Lei. It feels like it's a graduation

moment. Uh I mean we've had so much fun at conferences. You this is my favorite piece of crypto merch probably ever and so I mean lean into it whether maybe merch can be a distribution channel but ultimately man congratulations. I'm so happy for you and uh I'm very happy for Jumper as well. thanks for coming on the show, spending some time, and uh we're going to be watching very closely uh what's coming out on the token side over the next uh the next little bit. >> Thank you. Thank you for having me, man. >> Absolutely. We'll see you again soon. >> See you. Bye. >> Bye.

All right, there you guys have it. That was Marco from Jumper. We're big fans. I mean, look, you know, we've been uh we've been friends of the Jumper team, the Levi team. Marco in particular, he's a good friend. And so, uh, we, uh, we are glad that we can help, uh, you know, support them. They've got some absolutely hilarious merch as you can see. And so, we are, uh, we are glad to have them on the show. Um, we're going to bring up another friend of the show, R.J. is going to be up in just a moment. Uh, we are going to cover a couple of more headlines. I'm excited about all this Ethereum talk, all this technical Ethereum stuff. I'm excited.

Uh let's go ahead and hit another headline. We can flip the title, get the next headline, market news piece going as we get R.J. set up in the back. We're going to bring him up in just a moment and we're going to continue rolling through today's show. Believe today is going to be our only show of the week. Only show of the week. Maybe we get a show Friday, but we've got a busy middle of the week here. Tuesday through Thursday, we got Robin Hood and Cyos. Plenty plenty to cook on. And so guys, what you see here is a screenshot of the Zcash chart on Hyperlid. Um, we got word that a $25 million short was placed on Zcash on Hyperlid.

Let's see how Hyperlid's holding up. I think the market was recovering nicely. We're pretty much at the point in which Zcash was sold off here. Do a quick little market run through. Pump looks fantastic. I'm not really sure what got into pump all of a sudden, but it looks good. Ethereum cranking. Uh, Bitcoin and Ethereum having a little bit of a struggle to get back above where they were, but 839. I mean, can't really scoff at that too much. Um, on Bitcoin.

Uh, Leo, why don't we do this? Why don't we uh why don't we screen share a little bit? I'll get this going. We've got a new Oh, we Yeah, we got that article there. Let's see what the chat's talking about. Guys, are you in D Are you in Zcash? Let's chop it up with the chat a little bit as we onboard our next guest. Roll up interviewing the creme de la creme mo scythe for 350 a share. Roll up. I'm broke af did all my buying months ago. Greg, I feel you on that, man. I feel you on that, Greg. Look, we've been all in for months, but the thing is once you know you get some good appreciation and

then you can rotate. But what are you guys doing? Are you guys playing the rotation game? Are you guys playing the rotation game? You trying to go from one to the next? Are you guys kind of just thinking like, hey, you know, we'll stick in what we'll stick in because we got good entries. So, I'm curious to hear from you guys on that. Um, but we've got plenty more that we can actually we can look into. we can uh I mean guys here's the you got the Zcash chart up now. Uh I want to get into some fun pairs. So I'm going to I'm going to get my screen going and we will

get that up in just a moment because one of the things that I want to do is get pair trades on. So what I've got up now is ETH. We're going to bring it up in just a moment. Let's see. I'm going to play with this a little bit. This is the Ethereum dollar chart. We're going to bring it up in just a moment. 3day 3-day is not bad. It's pretty good. We want to see a little bit more of a push. If we can get above 3K on ETH, oh boy oh boy, are we going to be happy.

Yeah, let's send it. And so you guys see ETHUSD here. This is what I'm looking at. I do think that Ethereum is going to look real good. I mean, it's been just about up only. You can even look at maybe the weekly. I love longer time horizon time frames on some of these uh some of these charts here. We can This is a little crowded. We can turn off some of these EMAs. Let's uh can bring that back. We can remove that guy. Let's just look just nice and clean. ETH looks fantastic. I think it's going to make a run here to about 3K, maybe a quick pop above like that 32 3,300 mark and then probably

settle out. But I do like a nice $5 to $700 move on ETH. But here's what I'm looking at because I think we do have some bullish trends happening on ETH and on Bitcoin. This looks fantastic. Maybe we get a little bit of a retrace, but boy oh boy, I want to see this thing pop and really just start to settle in in the 90s. 93 to 95, we're going to be real happy. If we can get 93 95, I mean, we're we're exactly where we want to be.

The quicker we get there, the better. Not going to be a straight shot, but 9395 is what I'm looking at. And obviously I think if we can maintain this and if we can get some some things like this going, you know, I can see sort of like a triangle start to form here, right? We pop up to like 93 95, we kind of settle back down, we dip back below the 90s, we get, you know, a dip, a dip from like 94 to 88 would be pure bit dip buying material. I'd love to see that. I would love to buy 88K after a shot to 93 94. That's kind of what I'm looking for on Bitcoin. And so obviously

once you have a bullish bias on Bitcoin, then you want to start charting things in Bitcoin terms. So I want to look at Ethereum Bitcoin. Wow, these levels. My goodness. I haven't drawn things on this for quite a long time. This is ETH Bitcoin. Honestly, it looks pretty good. I mean, guys, you guys know I'm not much of a TA guy here, but I mean, are you kidding me? Where where are my cup and handle friends?

Not rotating too lazy on Greg. Yeah, I hear you. I hear you on that, brother. I mean, if you're in the winners, look, earlier today, I said the winners are going to continue to compound, too. They're going to be, you know, the same people, the same winners, you know, that are driven by fundamentals. They're leading the market. People come in. That's what we're going to see. So, I do think that we're going to get another leg up in ETH Bitcoin. So, I'm positioning again, you know, I I tend to think Bitcoin is going to send for, you know, like, you know, low to mid 90s and then chill out for a little bit. People are going to assume 100K. Maybe we get there quickly, maybe not. But I do think that Ethereum is going to outperform.

And I do think we're gonna hit Oh my goodness. If we make a new high in ETH Bitcoin terms, baby. But then what I would be looking at is I would be looking at some of the some of the other ones here. Like give me Zcash Bitcoin on Binance. Give me this. You know, feels like there's a local move here. Oh, is this in log terms? Oh, we're gonna have to Oh my goodness. But that kind of that kind of tells you where we're at.

That does sort of tell you where we're at. If you look in log terms, it actually becomes kind of easier to understand here. I mean, look at this. That's actually a huge move. A huge move in Bitcoin terms. Let's see. Look out on auto. This thing is on an absolute insane tear. Take it off auto, too. See what we're working with. I mean, that's that's where we're at. So, if it's so hard to even just see this and understand, but I do think, man, Bitcoin and I think Bitcoin and ETH maybe Zcash chills out a little bit in Bitcoin terms. I do think that you can go into Bitcoin and ETH here and be

relatively happy with your level of outperformance. Other things I'm looking at maybe near Bitcoin. Yeah. Yep. So, I mean, look at that, right? That's got some headroom. Maybe some headwinds. Maybe we make one more big push in Bitcoin terms, right? But again, I kind of think we're gonna see And then like what about Near ETH? Show me near ETH.

How do you do this on uh near ETH? Can we get that? Here we go. Now we're talking. Look at this. So near ETH is now like to me this is right where you want to be. Maybe it makes another leg, right? And we get to that 0.003 mark, but like are we looking for another double on near in ETH terms? Maybe. Maybe we are,

right? Or maybe we're looking for let's say let's say we're looking for hype ETH. Here's another one. This is what but this is where I start to have fun because no one really looks at this, right? Let's look hype ETH. Oh boy. Yeah, because I guess they just listed this, right? Binance just listed this. So, let's look at hype and let's look at Hyperlquid versus ETH right?

Looks phenomenal. Oh my goodness. This looks like it's going to I mean, look, you don't know exactly. This could break down. We could see an absolute insane move on ETH. What else do we want to look at on ETH? Maybe a Zcash ETH move. That would be wild. Let's look at Zcash ETH move. Show me what this looks like. Obviously, big moves recently and we don't have enough data. Oh my goodness. I think I think ETH is going to rip some faces. I think ETH is going to absolutely rip some faces.

It is going to be a tokenization just bonanza. All right, we're going to pull down my screen. I'm very bullish. ETH Zcash Bitcoin is a ratio to keep up with. I'd agree. Near token is what I need. Everyone feels sidelined to near. Guys, I'm going to be talking about E for the next 30 minutes with my friend R.J. We're going to send him in. flip the title because we're gonna be talking about ETH. I want to get the update from R.J.

on ETH. I want to get it from I want to get the update on Vitalic's latest paper. Feels like a massive upgrade. Um, and so obviously we've been working with Align for a long time. We're big supporters and big friends uh with the Allian team. They had us out in DevConnect. It was a tremendous fantastic experience and they literally owned that conference. And so they've been crushing. Uh Align went live and began trading on August 20th. Don't think they could have timed the market any better if they tried. Literally a week later, you had Treasury Secretary Bessant announced the buybacks and the market ripped. Uh so that was on August 20th, followed by posts on August 21st about the past absence rewards campaign

August 24th addressing airdrop claims plus a one and a half to% token allocation of Protocol Guild. The fact that they're still allocating to protocol guild in 2026, I think is a testament to how Ethereum aligned these guys are. Uh this month has been product and partnership news Propria. Uh and then we also talked about their ZK identity passport solution that I believe they're working with some municipalities and governments in the Latin America region uh for that product. And so I'm very excited to get a update on how those things are going as well as a broad update on ETH and R.J.'s take on Vitalik's latest paper.

Uh here he is. He's ready in the back. Let's go ahead bring him up. R.J. Catalon of Aligned. R.J. man. It's good to see you again. How you doing? >> Hi Robbie. How are you? Thank you for having me again. Nice to see you again. >> Absolutely man. It feels incredibly timely. uh Vitalic just put out this paper and you guys are aligned with Ethereum. So maybe you could just uh give us an update. I mean it's been a couple of months maybe we saw you pretty recently maybe last month but give us an update on how things are going over the last month especially as the market has started to shift and it feels like people are starting to waken to Ethereum again.

>> Yeah. So in the last couple of months we have been extremely focused in prog development and we did our token launch as well as you mentioned in a very uh in a very important time for the industry with a lot of change and not only from a macroeconomics point of view but also from a regulatory clarity and in general industry from a tech and pro perspective. I think the the market and what we used to call crypto is no longer crypto. It's multiple things at the same time. And luckily, I think we we're in a really good position because we have a lot of interesting go-to market strategies and partners for many of these new verticals that exist in what we used to call the blockchain industry

and today is no longer one single thing. Um so we went live in No Leon with one of our our partners called Sorra uh with the verifier credentials and we are working with them very closely because we believe verify credentials are going to be extremely important for governments and for citizens in the future and we published a blueprint uh white paper explaining to governments hey if you want to have your own verified creation solution this a protocol that we are putting out there that leverages rollups and ethereum so you can have a better uh design system for a future where AI breaks out of the KYC and KYB uh processes that that that we use and this is a way better

fundamental uh stage for uh leveraging CK for privacy with those credentials and recently the SAC announced that they were very interesting in exploring solutions with CK verifier credentials so I think we we're in a good position to explore further how we can leverage uh this situation That's amazing, man. I mean, we also saw how Hester Pur put out this proposal or this idea around ZK related uh KYC and how if we're bringing more compliant financial industry and transactions on chain, we're going to need KYC. There's really no doubt about it. You know, she kind of called KYC data haststacks, meaning like they're like these data

honeypotss. But if we have ZK, then these regulatory agencies or these compliance departments can check and verify that we passed the KYC and they don't need to collect all of that data. And so it feels like Aligned because you're already doing this from an identity standpoint. Align is particularly well positioned to provide this data, provide this infrastructure, maybe sell it to different institutions so that they can integrate it into their compliance department because you guys already have a case study. You're already doing this with Sabra.

>> I think what what we have is the the main building blocks in order to build some of these solutions and what we recently did with Sor say hey what we are building with you guys let's create the blueprint so others can do it as well. uh if they don't want to interact directly with the solutions that that that we're offering. So there's a clear protocol and standard that we can start building every we can start building together basically uh because governments do care about neutrality and they do care about vendor locking. So doing part of doing this job correctly is making sure they have those uh risk uh lower and they can make sure that uh if something goes wrong this is an open-source fully uh standardized

protocol that anyone can implement by themselves and from our point of view what we are offering is all the building blocks that you need in order to on board millions of users for a future where everything is on chain. So if you need wallets where we have our wallet as a service that is working with Sorra and if you have millions of users what you need is a scalable back end and that's what we are offering with the rollup as a service solution built on ethrex. So yes >> I love it. I love it and I think it's I'm glad that you mentioned the roll up as a service product as well because we've been hearing a lot about institutions coming online, right? They need wallets, they need custody, they need identity, they need KYC, they need all of these components, but we really haven't seen what an institutional

rollup looks like aside from Robin Hood. Robin Hood is the best example of hey this is an example of like institutional onchain finance at scale and so as more institutions see that use case they will come on chain and I think it's particularly timely again because Vitalic just put out this paper and this paper was talking about arbitrarily complex computation that can be done maybe offchain and it can be verified on Ethereum. And so I realize that you and your team, you guys like to work pretty closely with Ethereum and

you know, uh, maybe Vitalik himself. And so I'd love your take on this paper like what is Vitalik really talking about and what are the implications for the different parts of Ethereum? >> Yeah. So no, no pun intended, but as you mentioned, Rob, we're very aligned with Ethereum. not only from a tech perspective but we appreciate a lot of the work that has been done by Vitalik and many of the the core developers. So that's why we we also decided to take the pledge uh with protocol guild and then we're putting like uh skin again right like we're not only building products for for our clients but also we're doing a lot of open source and collaborations with the ecosystem uh from the line point of view with the

CKBM and then of course our friends at Lambda Glass with Ethrex uh that is becoming the main uh execution client for testing and experimenting the latest features of Ethereum in itself. um and it has become the recently the the most performant execution client on Ethereum. So we are extremely um excited about everything that is uh going on in terms of the road map of Ethereum from a privacy perspective, scalability perspective and a UX point of view as well. Um this is not something that Vitalik put directly in the paper because what he was trying to say is hey everything we're working on is for this goal and in in the in these general

terms we're going from a blockchain to a more generalized kind of cryptographic or verifiable work computer where you don't have reexecution for the actual computation but you execute everything offchain and you just agree on a final state and there are many things that they're working on with for example frame transactions There is something that is going to be extremely interesting for UX and account structure as well. And that I think it shows a lot of how good Ethereum is at building really complex systems and understanding how the different p different pieces of the puzzle play all together in order to achieve privacy, UX and scalability and also simplifying the protocol. And I

think is the most ambitious uh project in in our industry at the moment. I don't think any L1 is close to what Ethereum is doing. And I think many of the people that work on other L1s don't fully understand what Ethereum is trying to achieve. >> I think you're right. I think, you know, people saw DeFi and they saw Ethereum and they said, "Oh, Ethereum is for, you know, financial transactions. We're going to go try to build a financial application." And that's what other L1s are trying to do. Feels like Ethereum is is building something different than the other L1's.

>> Yeah. I mean, I think Ethereum realized that in the end what it's selling is private privacy property rights and that's not only financial, >> right? >> It still has like its main use case is financial transactions. Um but if you care about the values that Ethereum has has been uh preaching and actually protecting from the beginning, it's not only like hey I need to move money faster is I need to move money faster and also have privacy or I need to create verifier credentials so I can move my money with different rules >> um and protect individuals and also companies that want to build on top of it. So I think it's very Ethereum is really good at juggling between all of these clients because the client is not

only the end user but it's also the institution and it's also in some in in some future not not that distant governments. >> Yeah. >> If you want to issue your credentials you're going to be a main client for Ethereum itself. >> So censorship resistance as well is extremely important in this world. I can even imagine worlds with AI getting regulated and censored and people wanting an unregulated uncensored AI agent and maybe the only way to do that is to prove the computation on Ethereum so that other people can run you know a similar model.

>> Yeah. Exactly. And I don't know le let's say you you're a government from from Latin America and or even from Europe. Europe has a lot of conflicts right with the US in terms of data in terms of where the competition happens. Trust is like the main bottleneck that we have in our century because the world is changing very fast. It's kind of fragmenting but it's still very global. like it's it's very weird because we're in a world where everything is friction but at the same time we have never been more connected >> in terms of the internet and also from the global markets but you still need protocols in order for being someone outside the US to participate in US markets and the US will have its own rules but it will need to verify the

data and their credentials from a different country where they don't have maybe any power on saying hey this is the standard you need to apply or yeah you should have your data in my country which sounds nuts. Why would you have your identity system in another country where something extremely important and sensitive? Uh and that's where Ethereum for example will shine as well. >> It's not only money is hey there are many things that should be a protocol and they should work differently and be composable and Ethereum is going to be one of the best places to build these technologies. I think that's very well said and I think what we've heard before and what what we believe is that Ethereum is one of the best places for

coordination, human coordination, agent coordination. And it was actually Joseph Shalom from Sharplink Gaming came on the other day and he said if ETH the asset is a trust commodity basically because trust is a scarce resource. It's a finite resource and ETH the asset represents a commodifi commoditization of trust. And so if you're looking to buy like a little bit of trust, you can do that by owning ETH the asset because that is what people use the Ethereum protocol for. And so my question R.J. I guess my last question here is like if ETH is a trust asset, do you think that's true? Do you agree with that? And if ETH is a trust

commodity, what does that make the align token >> for for Ethereum the asset? I think it's fair to say is related. I don't know exactly how to to succinctly explain it. It it has a very big relationship with trust in itself that it is the the the native assets of a network that is actually sensor resistant and that will host most of the financial transactions in the world. So is the the risk-free asset in terms of bugs and in terms of uh financial risk that I think that's fully uh correlated like if you actually want to the safest way to save your money on Ethereum uh is

just holding ETH you don't have any counterparty risk h you can just take it it has the lowest risk of of a bug or getting hacked if you you don't have to put it on our system so I think it's fair to say that um and And with of course align I think the way we're describing it is is a token that is part of an ecosystem that is building services horizontal services on top of Ethereum that are not are not related with many of the services that we have seen in DeFi. So we're going to build many products on top of Ethereum and align is going to be um the way we're going to coordinate those services in itself. So from the service that we're in today with the

well as a service but we're exploring many different new verticals uh that the new rob of Ethereum offers to us uh where we are going to fully build decentralized networks that way. Um so we haven't found the the niche narrative. I don't know if it will be around trust but we know it's going to be the fuel of the coordination that that we need because you cannot do everything with because >> if we go back to the risk takingaking age and Vitalik explained this very well you don't want to overload one protocol with the risks and priorities of another system. Uh so if you want to encapsulate that what you need is a smaller ecosystem inside Ethereum.

>> Well said. I love it. R.J., you guys have been building throughout the bare market. You know, you guys were here, you survived, aligned, survived, still here, and uh on behalf of everyone here on Ethereum and and at large, I uh I appreciate the hard work because it's uh it's difficult building through the bare markets, but we didn't go anywhere. You guys didn't go anywhere. And now it feels like the tides are shifting. So, thanks for spending some time with us. Would love to have you on again soon. I always appreciate how how you think bigger and I love how you see the vision of Ethereum and you you talk about how aligned fits into the broader vision. Uh and you don't just shill, you talk at large about how these things fit together. So I really really appreciate it. Thanks for spending some time and uh

would love to uh love to have you on again very soon. >> Thank you Robbie and thank you for everyone on your team. We always are really happy to work with you guys and we enjoy your job as well. So uh hopefully we soon each other uh very soon. Let's do it. Let's do it. Sounds good. Thanks, R.J. We'll see you soon. >> Bye. >> Well, there you have it, guys. There you have it. That was R.J. Uh he is the chief of Aligned and uh one of the most Ethereum aligned people that I know. Really understands the deeper vision and mission behind Ethereum. Talking about how Ethereum truly is the world computer. And I think when Vitalic first came out with that like the

decentralized world computer, it was so amorphous. It was like what does that mean? Like you can do so much with a computer. It's so general. But now I think as we get AI on board and we see the potential limitations and bottlenecks, right, and potential constraints and censorship points and then you understand the implications of all of finance, not just cryptonative assets, but all of finance, you really start to put the pieces together about what this computer, the world computer, what is possible when you truly do connect everyone, not just at an internet level, but at a computer level and you get raw verification of

everyone's state, whether that's an economic state, an identity state, you don't need to have an invasion of privacy to prove the the happenings and the truth behind someone's state. And so that is so general. It's so fascinating. There's so much uh such significant implications of having this at scale. And I'm just excited. I'm excited again, not just because of the prices. I am excited by the market, but I'm excited by Ethereum, and I'm excited about all the tremendous work that everyone on the show, everyone behind the scenes, all of our audience, everyone who watches, all of our partners, and uh everyone in the industry is doing because it feels like we're really starting to see a lot of validation, vindication, and an

acceptance of what is to come. It feels like we're at that inflection point. Guys, thank you so much for watching. Uh that's it for today. We're not going to cover any more tweets and uh we're going to close out because we've got a big couple of days ahead of us. We're going to Cyos. We're going to Robin Hood. There's so much happening. Give myself a follow. Give Andy a follow. I'm at Robbie Clagious. Andy's at Andy3 Wise. Give the rollup co a follow. Give us a sub on YouTube. Give us a like. Keep up to date because although we are not streaming for the next few days, we will not be slowing down. You are going to want to stay up to date on everything that is coming out so that you are empowered, you're educated, and you're enriched. Guys, stay long, stay strong,

be more bullish. We'll see you tomorrow. Peace.