The state of sports in Web3 from the NBA to the EPL

Transcript

GM GM welcome to web3 Academy your one trusted source to capitalize on the next big phase of the internet don't get caught in the hype cycle I'm Jaybird and I believe that sports nfts are going to change the world that's why I'm carving a path for doers to confidently build and invest in web 3. welcome everybody to another episode today we have back on the show a past guest LG Ducette from the first mint a leader in all things Sports and web 3 LG consults for some of the biggest Major League Sports in the world he works with some of the projects that are happening in web 3 he's got a

real behind the scenes look into what the NBA the NHL the NFL European soccer all these large sports leagues what are they doing in web 3 what's working what's not working I mean I think we all know that NBA top shots was really the big blow off the top nft moment they sort of started the nft run back a few years ago well what about now now that we're in a bear Market what are these leagues really investing in and what are they looking to for the future and LG brings all this knowledge to Today's Show to make sure that you guys are listeners understand what is happening in sports not only that because LG

himself similar to Assa Webster Academy has his own media company and Community we also talk it is probably my favorite part of the episode we talk at the end of the show about a new project that LG is launching he's air dropping new nfts basically a Rewards program of redeemables he's airdropping to his community and that is happening right now and he talk walks us through how he's structuring that which is if your creator or a builder doesn't matter whether you're in sports or what sector or category you're in the way LG is thinking about community building the way he's thinking about creating viral fun experiences for his members is just really Innovative and something that I

think will inspire anybody building in the space so yeah it's gonna be really a great episode from start to finish LG Doucette from the first mint before we jump in we'll just take a minute to hear from our sponsors modern newsletters are built on paragraph that's right paragraph is a brand new newsletter platform that combines the best parts of web 2 and web3 to supercharge newsletters for both writers and readers build a community not just an audience paragraph uses blockchain Tech to allow readers to collect and own the words that matter to them this takes reading a newsletter to the next level where paragraph readers can mint collect and show off quotes from their favorite

newsletter this opens new possibilities like creators sharing Revenue with fans I also love their new feature paragraph AI this integrates gpt4 natively in paragraphs create edit and improve your writing effortlessly with one click and guess what we at web3 Academy are on board and have already moved our content over to paragraph We believe this is the future of newsletters because of profound engagement it creates between creators and fans so whether you're a Creator writer or an Avid Reader it's time to check out paragraph and capitalize on the opportunity of being early

oh gee what's up my man welcome back to web3 Academy yo dude it's so good to be back man I always love chatting with you we had such a good time last time and I think did I fill in for you do what I fill in for it you filled in for me when my my son jack was born oh man we had a good time Colin I had a great time then too so dude always great to be back man your third time on the show you're becoming one of our most regular guests I'm happy to do it man I'm happy to do it happy to be here always happy to chat anything web3 and uh I feel like today is a good topic let's see yeah we're like my home court today you know right that's really exciting because now now you're really gonna see me talk like

you're just gonna unleash that today which is uh hopefully it's good hopefully I'm excited I'm excited okay let me tee you up to talk by starting with the headlines in web 3 and sports over the last six months just to give everybody a deal where we're at here okay PGA launched draftking nfts NFL launched NFL Rivals web 3 game good good NFL all day sued by players you in Shaq served for FTX promos NBA metaverse goes bust Dapper Labs has done three rounds of cuts this year Tom Brady lost 30 million in FTX Dr NHL nft launch is a total disaster which one of those stands out the most

to you which is like the sexiest like you know awful headline out of all the bad ones they're all bad they're all bad I gotta go with with Shaq and Tom Brady on etx just because it's it's comical to me that these guys got roped in I hate to laugh but I do oh no FTX was a total disaster and I think you know some people were saying it's like well these guys just got paid to do a promo same thing for anything else like if somebody Michael Jordan promotes McDonald's it's not his fault you got fat right like you could always make that kind of argument but I think in this case it's good those are good not because I want to see Tom Brady and Shaq in trouble I don't think they did anything wrong but I think it's good because you saw so many

celebrities and these are A-list celebrities we saw a lot of like d-list celebrities taking the most random crypto deal to promote worse scams that I think it's good to in a way make an example out of the biggest celebrities just for the next round of Bull Run so that these celebs think twice before they take the easy crypto money Tom Brady and Shaq are gonna be totally fine they're gonna be fine they're not gonna go serve time and 30 million dollars for Tom Brady that's a lot of money for anybody but I think he's okay especially with his Fox broadcasting deal kicking in this year which is 50 million dollars a year I think I think you for 10 years so I think he's good I think he's good

okay the other is this stand out to me are NBA metaverse goes bust I didn't even know that there was an NBA metaverse so curious to learn more about that and that apparently that headline's just from last month and then the other one is NHL nft launch is a total disaster I didn't really follow it I know NHL launched NHL Breakaway all I saw was that they sold out so I from my perspective I was like oh it must be working but maybe I'm missing something yeah just yeah I'm sure you'll preface this but these are all just headlines that's like if you need to catch up with what's going on like sports nfts web 3 these are the select headlines of the last like half year that you know to pay attention to so NHL convenient timing

for them it's a good time to launch a project for a season that starts in two and a half months right it's a good time to launch NHL nfts they hyped up for months Jay like way back in April they're like we have the best pack opening experience and like they put out like here's our supply for each card which they then had to cut because the community was super mad they're like you can't make like 5 000 Sydney Crosby's like it's too much so they already adjusted a lot and then it came to drop day the drop didn't work at all like like they had I think Moon pay as their payment provider and they were testing like a new moon pay feature didn't work and that was like everybody tried to order packs it got over overwhelmed nobody was able to get anything it was

one of those situations where you're like in the Discord General chat and the chat is doing this like yeah million messages at once in the sports web 3 world people have gotten used to like just raging on things especially when it's like they want to get a pack and the pack might have good nfts and they can't get one and they're just like you know and it's it's amazing to see that totally unjustified anger come out in chat form but that was the first launch and then they retry they tried again a week later and they nailed it and so who's buying these nfts is this NHL fans onboarding into web 3 or is it just a LG dusend is is Gang of zeroing support team like gang of sports goons you know what that's a great question I think

something that's really important to keep in mind is that a lot of people came into nfts through NBA Top Shot right that was one of the first big projects and a lot of those people are people who play fantasy sports they call sports cards they watch a lot of sports sports is how they connect with friends especially people that have kids it's like well yeah you're you're one night a week is when you go with the Buddies to the bar to watch the game right like I think that's you have to keep in mind the importance of sports as being something that people really enjoy not just to watch but to spend money on either that your friend bet on the game play Fantasy so nfts came in with NBA Top Shot and was like hey here's a whole new layer of that experience so anybody

who's even a mild fan of the NHL and is like yeah I'll watch a couple games a year if my team's in the playoffs I'll watch them go they're going to be interested in this especially if they're already in kind of like the crypto market right already in that space spending ten dollars on an NHL pack for a chance at a Conor McDavid or some of the Marquee players they know 100 they'll do it and they've been through this we've been this is the last major like North American Sports League to launch and in it maybe in the world in terms of big Revenue leagues and he has stuff out NBA well Nascar has nfts like there's all the Euro soccer leagues have in it everybody has nfts the NHL did not have officially licensed nfts so this was the last one so yeah naturally

there's a bit of attention on it because often the launch of some of these big-ips has actually been profitable in the first couple pack drops so everybody had a note right that is like oh yes of course the first NBA Top Shot packs they are still very valuable the first candy digital baseball packs very valuable you know what I mean so this was like okay get the first ones because that might be good and it's exciting there's a new IP people like hockey they're in so and they only sold like 700 packs man so it's not it's this wasn't like I don't think like a hundred thousand people on the site you know it's maybe a couple thousand max if not a couple hundred who who got into it the first time yes such small numbers it's so easy to say sell out at those numbers so one thing we're

going to talk about later and I want to just get you to tease this a little bit right now is the thing I really struggle with is like where are we going with web 3 and sports because and I always wonder if this is a me thing or because I'm not a collector right so I mean collecting sports cards doesn't make sense to me let alone collecting a digital version of a sports card right Jay comes in and just off the top rope drop me and everything that we do no I'm just saying that's not meat right and I recognize look that collecting is a massive massive Market there's billions of dollars spent on Collectibles every year

so even though it's not me but I guess I struggle to understand what is the business model here that actually is going to make sense long term are we just going to have have this totally skeuomorphic output where like all the leagues are just going to sell us digital cards and and highlight videos that we have to buy I don't know I struggled to see it where's your view on it yeah that would be a shame if that's all it ever was given the promise of web 3 and nfts and everything if they would be a shame if it stopped here and early in the Top Shot days one of their Community managers would often say this on like a community call he'd do every week he would always tell people he's

like we're in the bottom of the first inning right there's still a long game to go here what we're doing now is this is just the start and I really hope that's true I don't know if that's the right platform that's going to deliver it but for me personally with all this I think like when you look at it from an outsider perspective Jay you're selling videos that exist on YouTube but you're making people pay for that and you're you're putting a cute little number in a badge beside them and putting them in a wrapper and putting them in a digital pack and that's like that's what a score for the sports their IP that's free this is free on YouTube like you want to watch the basketball game from last night it's free on YouTube just watch it you know like you could just or maybe the

highlights whatever but the highlights are what they're selling so that is an enormous score but also something really significant that it's like well that it did work right that did make a lot of money for these leagues already so there's something there and it can be involved especially considering that it's a tech sector right so things will change so I think that it's like long term when you really think about what resonates uh in terms of fandom in terms of what sports fans love and what what makes them tick and what makes Sports actually work for the average person the average family there's two sectors I think we're gonna go into and I think all these platforms and things will eventually get there because they already do this one is loyalty right loyalty tracking you already have some big Brands doing stuff in the space

and I'm sure you guys have talked about this extensively but things like Starbucks right is okay they've taken loyalty and they've put it into an nft program very small for now but eventually going to grow and even outside of actual nft loyalty in general now every single brand is pivoting to having an app that you scan when you go to the store and it gives you points and you get free things that's what consumers want so inevitably nft nft purchasing is going to have to go to that I think we're going to take fandom to that anyways we could talk about that a little later and then ticketing is the other one Ticket Master prints 500 million tickets a year how many of them are nfts how much do you wish you had the nft ticket from whatever show you went to when you're 18 that you talk

later and you cried at the concert Dave Matthews Band there you go I haven't met with the moment I felt like you know myself floating above the ground might have been a little bit of the substances at the time you know or a joint or something like that but like you don't have anything that you carry with you that absolutely it's that experience right maybe you have a photo of you I have I actually have the physical ticket you have okay I didn't think about it I do have the physical thing or collector you are a collector this episode we're gonna find the collector in you man there's lecture in there somewhere he doesn't want LeBron James slam dunking he does want all his Dave Matthews interactions ever you want them on Shake I have enough comment on taking anymore bring it up

later because I think we'll dive into that okay so let's just step back for a second all these headlines a lot of negativity are these leagues making money like is this Revenue you mentioned it seems like this is great revenue for them so is the business model sound and if they're making Revenue then maybe they'll just keep doing what they're doing good question so we don't know exactly the terms of the revenue agreements with these leagues this has overall been a pretty good situation for the leaks because they first of all they sold the license right they sold the lights their IP in a sector that didn't exist before so immediately when you see like Dapper labs and so rare and all them Ray you know a couple years ago announcing that they've raised 500

million 600 million most of that money is to buy the license from the league that they're working with for an year period right so it's like if you want to make golf nfts you got to call it the PGA and you got to license their nft sector or whatever and you got to pay it and how much would one of those licenses cost I think like nine figures I think that that's what you're talking it's low nine figure deal right probably any other licensing deal like if you want to make an NBA video game you got to pay the NBA and the players union probably a crapload of money right because video games are massive and they know that you're gonna go make money and part of the deal is also that they get part of the revenue anyway so it's a fantastic deal for the leaks and this is what the

league office does and you're wondering like what is the NBA league office do like make decisions about the rules for the game like yeah that's that's a little bit but the main thing they do is find ways to make money and opportunities for revenue and growth in sectors and Tech and all that kind of stuff so it's expensive to get these licenses that's why these companies raise tons of money and also because they're tech companies they're building platforms they're building Dapper is building low and even so rare they're on ethereum but they're still building the actual they have to build the marketplace that has millions of assets on it that get transferred on chain between wallets and all that kind of stuff right so it's not cheap to build this stuff these are Big tech companies and to be a successful tech company typically you need to show hockey stick

growth right a term that it's like this and then boom and Dapper had that in March of 2021 where they went from like hey there's a couple hundred users on Top Shot at the end of the year to March 2021 where 300 000 people are showing up for every single drop and that was a tech success at the time and helped them get a giant raise but now each of these platforms at most has 10 000 monthly buyers on their Marketplace that's not necessarily daily active users it's very different than the typical Tech measurement I don't know how many people they don't release those numbers I don't know how many people check in to these Tech Marketplace these Tech products every single day but it's definitely not

anywhere near what you would see for what you would consider a successful tech company like an Uber or Facebook or an apple or even even middle tier ones whatever that is right like a Snapchat there's something like that you know I'm not ouch or SnapChat whatever whatever you consider like a middle tier like this is a decent tech company you know they're doing well they do 200 million dollars of Revenue a year whatever that is those companies have eight figures of active users on a daily basis right seven or eight figures active daily users these companies don't have that they might not even have 20 000 of those they might not have ten thousand daily active users so in a way these companies yes they've been successful in creating the segment

for you know for a company like me for first minute if I had a couple thousand active daily people that's we're doing super well media business but if you want to be a tech unicorn you want to be a company that raised 500 million dollars and you're valued at a couple billion dollars your investors and your board will not stand by for very long for you having a couple thousand daily active users so I think you know these companies in the last year they've gone through aggression like everybody else on the market right time to shrink stockpile cash get ready for the future build a Runway prioritize your Tech stock and what you're going to build but these to me it's like the idea of just selling like hey it's a video highlight and you collect another pack that as a

simple straight idea hasn't broken through yet and I don't know if it will and obviously there's a promise that it's like well if the league would just Market these things to their fans maybe more people would want but I don't know if that's true because a lot of people don't want sports cards probably like an average fan of a few leagues May NBA NFL I don't know what you watch but you'll probably playoffs should watch maybe a couple games here and there you'll follow on Twitter the big highlights and stuff like that for sure you're an average fed it's been a couple bucks at the bar watching it maybe a jersey here and there that's an average person who's a fan you don't have sports cards no not buying a sport even if you go to McDonald's or you go to Tim Hortons Tim Hortons in Canada for everybody people

in the US everybody else knows what Tim Hortons is now it's our thing they a couple months ago they had hockey cards like pay an extra dollar and you get makes no sense to me but like why do you most people don't even want that and it's like and cards for like two bucks and some of them are super legendary whatever it's the same value prop as these highlights but like most people they're like just give me my coffee like I don't yeah NHL I don't care about cards I or maybe they do love the NHL but like I don't want any of these cards so I think that that's where there's like a bit of of a hard value proposition where it's like even sports cards don't have hundreds of millions of users but sports cards aren't tech companies right Panini and tops those

aren't tech companies they're turning into Tech their legacy like retail companies right so I think you have this kind of funny Crossroads that we're at now that it's like you kick-started the sector how are you going to evolve it how are you going to earn these video highlights the idea of digital Collectibles this idea of this gamified online system of value where you have assets and you can do fun things with them how are you going to take that to the next level for sports fans to the tune of making the average fan actually care about it a little bit okay so we talked about digital highlights as one key category or one key product that pretty much everybody NBA top shots Came Of The Playbook and everyone else was

like cool let's go do this apparently it makes money what else is happening in sports what are the other products that are being sold what are the other consumer Trends you're seeing in the space totally so Collectibles is one of them and again just to finish that point the digital memorabilia Market is like a or sorry the sports memorabilia Market is something like a 30 billion dollar annual market and that's one of the sectors that's expected to grow like crazy over the next 10 years and that's why companies like like Fanatics right Michael ribbon that's why they're going public that's why they're doing incredibly well is because they're taking over the memorabilia for all these sports leagues they're making the jerseys I think for the NHL next year they took they took some contracts like

that that's the type of company that people want to invest in that's doing well that's like memorabilia Jersey sees like all the stuff right ironically they divested their share of candy digital which was 60 of the company because they didn't I think they just didn't want to have something in the red on their balance sheet before they went public anyways that's a totally different point Business Point Collectibles is one of them another big Market within Sports is fantasy right and the history there is that Sports gambling was illegal for a long time the one little wrinkle was that a game of chance illegal a game of skill legal so that's where fantasy was born right where you choose your players you set them for the season you play against each other you pick players every day who's going to do the best you win money DraftKings FanDuel tons of the

commercials you see when you're watching the sports game right now that's what they are it's fantasy right Sports gambling now legal because the leagues love the revenue from it they make like the NFL made like 20 billion dollars from Sports gambling last year like something yeah they leaned into it something changed like 10 years ago where they they're like let's let's make this money let's let people gamble on our Sports and then make that green you know so as a result unrelated to the gambling part but related to the fantasy part a few companies have been licensed for Fantasy nfts so that's mainly so rare and DraftKings DraftKings the biggest fantasy sports platform that there's been the leader in the probably in the segment and with a very nft friendly CEO and Matt kalish who loves the segment does it he does a show every

week with Gary vaynerchuk where they've always talked about nfts now I don't know what they talk about but they did for a long time they basically have taken what would be Fantasy Football on DraftKings which is where like okay you pick your every week you pick one quarterback and one wide receiver who you think are gonna perform well and you put five bucks on it and you're in entering two pool 20 000 other people they've taken that and where instead of just picking the players you have to buy their nft and they release them in packs so then if you're like I'm convinced that this obscure quarterback is going to be the star of the Season you can buy a hundred of that guy's nfts and then when he moons into a big star everyone's gonna want him in their lineup and then you can make money so it's actually

really great for the consumer I actually think that fantasy sports makes way more sense for the consumer even than digital Collectibles so in terms of what the consumer is currently doing because you also have a far more tech-centric consumer uh in fantasy fantasy sports has always been online people used to do it a pen and paper like in the 90s but it's like most of what we know is fantasy sports is online so you have people that are already using their phones in relation to sports watching sports on their phones so giving them nfts and infusing that to me makes a lot of sense DraftKings very successful or relatively successful as successful as the digital collectible so you're talking like eight or nine thousand active monthly buyers on the marketplace so DraftKings has football and they have Golf and UFC so rare has pretty much

everything else so rare very similar company doesn't have the history of being a fantasy company they've only ever existed for this purpose but they started before everybody else so they started making soccer nfts fantasy nfts back in like 2018 man like right after cryptokitties they founded the company a French company and they're the leader in the segment so rare soccer obliterates every other sports nft collection that there is to the tune of their secondary Marketplace in the first half of 2023 did 65 million dollars just for soccer the next closest out of any of the sports things is Top Shot at 16. so they outpaced anybody else by 50 million dollars by a 5x space why is that they've been around for the longest and

I think they have the best rewards they give out the movies because they can pay people in eth for winning at soccer and you don't need to kyc to play oh yes everything else everything else to cash out DraftKings Dapper all these other things to get your money out of there you show me a little passport connect your bank account they got to verify that it's you and then you can get your money to make sure you're doing it legally for sore soccer they've never had to to receive eth rewards you can have as many wallets as you want so I think that gives the the sharps you call them in terms of sports gambling and gives them like a huge Advantage where they can just have tons and tons and tons of accounts and do really well I don't know that that's necessarily most

of the volume but that and they've been around the longest and also you know as North Americans we always have to admit that we don't really realize just how big soccer is totally review like the MLS was messy right now like that is it like look at the stadium he's playing it it looks like you're a high school like freaking football game like yeah this is Saga or something like that like it's like compared to the stadiums of La Liga and the EPL it's like pathetic that Messi's playing in the tiny little Stadium like the English Premier League in the league and all the other big soccer leagues like those in terms of Revenue and star power like God massive and so rare has had the product and market for almost five years now so they've built a lot of retention on their platform and they recently

launched NBA and MLB MLB on so rare within the past year to kind of start to round out the market those haven't grown as much they've only been around for a year so it's harder to you know over time they'll convert a lot of NBA and MLB fantasy players over so rare but I think it's just a bit of a bit of a harder pull for that so it'll take them some time but so rare it's very crypto native like it's a crypto company you have to have east in your wallet to buy in you know you can't pay the credit card it feels very web three so which is great because they've gone after that audience but they are not set up right now now I know they made an announcement recently that

they're going to start to enable people to purchase just with credit card and they're gonna it sounds like abstract web 3 out which is super smart I was actually surprised that they didn't already do that because I don't think the world doesn't want nfts but they want to play fantasy sports and they want to do it in a better way that allows me to make more money so why not lean into that yeah exactly so no it makes sense and they're like you're saying they're very native they've had a lot of really great investment Nicholas Julia who's the founder came on our show really smart really sharp dude I think they get a lot of support from the France like Tech sector they're definitely one of like The Darlings like to the point where the CEO Nicholas was at the event in France where Joe Biden

came to visit Emanuel macron and they invited like important VIPs of the French I don't know of the French scene and founder of silver was one of those people who went to meet Biden you know what I mean so that's in which they're like yes so rare is one of our greatest inventions of the last couple years like I'm so rare you know and macron I mean he's young too he's only like 41 or something like that so he obviously loves any like new tech nft yeah so yeah so I think that they've done well but again we're still talking Small Potatoes despite their success soccer side average monthly buyers is 17 000 this year the number I see and this is where you know this is why we need you on the show LG to give us the real numbers because all the headlines talked

about how they have five million users now I knew that was an active users that must just be terrible user Health yeah it's a cat and as you said there's nothing stopping you from having multiple accounts so how many users do they have it's much much that's such you see that's the thing is like they wrap it in a tech the thing is when you hear Communications from these companies Jay it feels like you're being pitched as a VC right and you're like not if you see I'm a consumer like I want to buy stuff but it's like why are you gaslighting me like take out your phone and find me an app that you've never opened I'm sure you can I'm sure most people can or they need an app they used once for one thing just because the app's on your phone does not mean you are a user of that app

totally the app when they need to go pitch for more funding they're like you're in there as an account they're like pretty sure look how many accounts millions of accounts but it's like how many of them actually use your website every single day you know like you're even on a monthly basis so these products have to break through so it's back to you know your original question those are the two main sectors is the Collectibles memorabilia and fantasy sports family those are the two main things there's another one that is beginning to emerge which is gaming and the only real player on that scene in the kind of like the current list is a game called NFL Rivals which also licensed by the NFL it's exactly like Madden if you ever played Madden on a

console Madden's been around for a long time where you you know you pick your play you throw the ball you run it whatever you do it's a very similar game engine the game is very slick I will say I downloaded a couple months ago within an hour and a half I'd won the Super Bowl no big deal um it was pretty quick to play they have a free model where you I just won the Super Bowl for free I didn't pay for anything and then you can do League Play where you play other teams and you can upgrade your players by buying packs of players that are nfts and you know buying expensive packs to get the legendaries which then have more points and upgrade your players so it's kind of like a Madden RPG mix right the company who made that mythical or Mythic games

is a gaming company a web 3 gaming company I can't remember what else I think they have another incumbent called Blancos block which was one of the first web3 games but that's a sector I would see a lot of growth in because the thing that people don't realize about video games and web3 gaming and you guys will probably cover this a lot is that gaming as a sector not what three gaming gaming on its own is bigger than movies and music and all that music all entertainment put together it's bigger than the rest so gaming to me is a massive vertical for the space and I think a lot of these companies whether they're collectibles or their fantasy are looking for more and more ways to fully gamify what they do build a little art game something right Rivals not on the same they just

launched in April so they have a couple maybe maybe like a thousand users couple thousand users they claimed it was a lot more recently but numbers don't lie I'll change numbers don't lie I would say that they're doing well that to me is promising because I I got the game I played it it was fun see other people getting into it and now it's really a matter of distribution but that's the sector the third one in that list of fantasy memorabilia and gaming and all of those make a ton of sense we're just we are very early we're in a bear market and let's be real if you're outside of crypto trying to get into this ecosystem it's like you got to be a freaking car mechanic you

can't just step in and throw keys in the car like you gotta understand how to go under the hood and build the car and then maybe you can drive it and hey you might lose all your funds along the way so there's some issues there if you were holding the budget if you were in charge you're one of these major sports leagues and they're like klg you're leading our blockchain initiative now what would you be focused on that's a good question right because I just stand there you know from the place where people Heckle from uh the cheap seats no like that there's a term peanut gallery peanut gallery that's it you just sit here in the peanut gallery being like I'm the expert of sports nfts and then like I don't have any sports nfts that I'm not

running anything so what do I know you're a podcaster we know everything come on man influence rule the world now get used to it but you know what I will say I've given a lot of these platforms some good ideas I've written threads I've chatted with them extensively and I've tried to tell them what I like and they've implemented some versions of stuff that I've talked about or other community members have talked about in terms of gamifying what they currently have and making it more interesting and using the technology a little bit more so that I like I definitely think the internet is a fun and weird place and it should always be a fun and weird place and any products you develop for the internet need to be fun and weird and they need to be a social experience right what's the main things that people adopted in

the internet was icq right like chatting email right all these other things where it's like you know the products are like that like an Amazon yes Amazon is massive it's the biggest online product that there is but God that took like 30 years for it to become a reply and all I did was just replace stores with convenience but in terms of like it took years for people to actually say they're having fun on Amazon anyways that you know so and nobody wanted to buy books anyways originally so but I think most other things like Reddit social media YouTube all those are these kind of communal experiences where people can do things together a participant or as an observer right like that's the heart and soul the internet how many people can relate to this what I'm going to say is

that you go on Facebook on Reddit and you see a post and the first thing you want to do is read the comments right you want to see what other people are saying you want online and that in itself that's fun that's that's a fun weird thing where you're like all the comments you know so it's like the internet to me is like a really fun weird place and I think we need companies and we need a lot of innovation to kind of push what that is to me web3 and nfts is is the sandbox very few people have come in to actually create something unique with what's available if I was the person you know say I'm the VP of digital Innovation at the NBA what I would be doing is finding ways for these companies that the top shots and the so rares to integrate with

a lot of the other stuff that I have right I'm like well we've got this slew of digital products we've got you know you can wear an Oculus and watch a game like your court side you know you can do that kind of stuff now I'd find a way for these to have some kind of through line where they all kind of tag together and I would also tell our partners these individual platforms that it's like you need to be thinking like you are a scrappy startup I'm going to loosen the leash I'm going to remove my Revenue targets which every single one of these platforms have if they don't hit the revenue targets they're in big trouble which has happened recently some of these companies are in a lawsuit right now because they didn't hit Revenue targets which is bad if I could do

anything Jay I would I'm Adam Silver or Roger Goodell or whoever else I loosen the leash I'm like you know what don't worry about Revenue but I want to see you ship products every month no one think like you are the scrappiest tech startup there is and get your CEO your CEO has to stop playing around private jets and has to sit in the lab with the dev Team every single night until you get out that people want to use you know like that's what I would do and treat those licenses like they're my own little startup Venture Studios it's interesting you bring up the uh the viewing experience because that feels like I would put that into web three it's not necessarily blockchain unless maybe you have some ideas of how the viewer experience changes with

blockchain but to me we've defined web3 as blockchain crypto is one pillar of web3 AI we believe is another pillar of web3 and then immersive experiences is the other pillar some people call it the metaverse and a big part of that pillar is the hardware the Apple Vision Pro those types of things that are coming and viewing Sports is such a it hasn't changed the only thing that's changed bigger TVs right otherwise nothing has changed in the way that we've used sports but there's so much potential for that viewing experience to change and we are an active audience for three hours like sports games are not short right so there's got to be something there well

here's another thing too so like let's say you're watching a big game right you're watching the NBA Finals you're watching the Super Bowl or just something just every you know watching a boxing match or something and something massive happens first thing you do after you scream and high five you take out your phone text your group chat go on Twitter and you're like holy yeah you know you're like did you see that you get the Highlight on Twitter you send the link to everybody like I can't believe that you want to see what other people are saying you want to see comments you want to see on Twitter what your favorite personalities are safe I think the sports viewing experience did evolve but in a way that we didn't really notice with second screen right and you've been in marketing as long as I have you that about 10 years ago we

were giving presentations about second screen viewing right how people it's like hey people have a mobile or a tablet in their phones now when they're watching TV isn't that interesting what can we do for them on the phone right on their mobile whatever that is and uh they're mixed results with that but I think now it's like there's already a user Behavior where people have their phone handy while they're watching something exciting on TV even think outside of sports think a reality TV Bachelor alley like these big uh Grammys like these big events that people want to watch communally and that's like think about the idea that it's like when you're watching a big team when you're watching a Super Bowl 100 million other people are doing the same thing I see you at the same time that's really powerful how often are you and 100

million other people doing the exact same thing that besides like you know sleeping or eating right like there's something that you're all actually emotionally invested in that's very rare these days so I think that like those live viewing experiences like World Cup final all that stuff those are really powerful and yet we're still just like we're all the main story outside of the game we talk about is like what's going to be the best commercial well like God that's so boring like like we have to take it further than that and this year there were some attempts at the Super Bowl right like the um what's that guy's name Gabriella Don uh oh yeah come on did you die crew yeah did you daiku is like we're gonna have the biggest nft mint ever be ready with your phones to be a

QR code and then it was like God that was also 100 people got it and then it's just Twitter you know so I think there's definitely potential there one project that we actually worked with this past year that has started doing that is we work with Bleacher Report on a few things and one of them they turned one of their shows which is NBA on TNT which is the show maybe you've seen Clips up on social media it's worth with Shaquille O'Neal and Charles Barkley uh where they comment on NBA things right and I love that shot I really love that a lot of memeable content from that where it's always like Shaq you know super stupid or whatever so they produced that show I believe report Turner Sports that we work with at Time Warner and what they did is they created something called

watch to earn trivia and during those shows at halftime starting after the All-Star break they would flash a QR code on the screen and Ernie the host would be like okay guys time for watch to earn trivia click the QR code and head on over to today's trivia question is what was the outfit Shaq was wearing when he did blah blah blah blah and people log in they have a trivia they answer the question and then they were given BR Bleacher Report tokens which were readable but they were on chain and at the end of the season they were able to trade those in for Merch or for nfts and all this different cool stuff and they had they had about 10 000 users this season as very low key they made a few million of these tokens I don't know how many you get per trivia guess but

that to me I'm like that's your honest that's cool yeah that's like a pilot project but I was like that's you have Shaq and Charles Barkley talking about this in a show everybody loves the show there's all these memes on the show they get to win things that are part of the show you know this is good you're making it and you're making it so easy for that end user who's just sitting there long day of work watching the game phone out okay I'll do this you know like that's fun it makes a lot of sense so I think there's still potential but that's so far removed from video highlights Jay right before I moved from fantasy video highlights it's to the emotional tie to the Creator right people love these guys they love the show any new thing to do with the show they'll do it right so

what about uh I want to touch on a couple more projects that you've been telling me about late style and Kraus house Dao we've talked about link Style on the show we talked about when they I don't know if they have actually purchased the golf course or if they've more just put the bid in I don't know exactly they're playing their speed whereas they're playing there oh yeah so links down was basically like a membership group is a membership group for golf enthusiasts around the world they sold a membership nft you can still get it now and they are very accomplished they have major discount deals with pretty much every merge company a gear company that exists in the golfing world and they with the funds they said we're gonna buy some golf courses and as a member you can go play there and they've done that they

bought spay Bay in Scotland for about a million pounds uh or I think under a million dollars U.S maybe so fewer pounds than that but yeah and as a member you can just go just freaking roll up there and play this beautiful Scottish golf course and they had plans to do many more very well respected so yeah that's what's new with links and the other one you mentioned Crouse house Dow I was started by a friend of mine Flex Chapman that is uh basically a dow that wants to buy and operate an NBA team and they sold like different memberships they found different ways to to raise funds for this dream and they have come kind of close like they have relationships with a lot of different owners in the NBA is the most recent team that changed hands in the NBA and they were part of

the conversations like they were invited to the table to offer what they had as as part of like maybe a minority stake in a larger ownership group so they're at the table I don't know I don't know what's new with them right I think a lot of that is hush hush and still until it happens but the idea there that it's like you and a bunch of other people on the internet would get a small say in what like an NBA team is doing that to me is really cool it's all these things Jay online clubs online fun weird things to do with other people ideas that are actually really hard to be part of unless they're in web 3. yeah well you bring up online clubs de Gods season three is happening right next week or actually tomorrow as we're we're

recording this on August 8th so tomorrow season three launches you guys will be hearing this a week from now so it'll be launched by the time you hear this and I saw they sponsored a not an NBA team but like a uh ice cubes there's some other basketball league three yeah look I thought that was interesting too like seeing nft Brands enter into sports through sponsorship on that side I think it's amazing to see these communities have such a large brand now that they can go and put their name on you know this small professional sports League

absolutely man absolutely and you know a lot of that comes from being well funded having a good team and having a good reputation right just people picking you up on Twitter and seeing that people really love your project that's how you get to the table on those things so yeah I'm a big fan of you know the term I've been I've been trying to coin lately or it already exists but I've been trying to kind of throw out there and this will kind of have a through line to my project which I'm sure we'll talk about in a few minutes is I really think about the social layer that to me is the key term is the social layer of all this where an especially in web 3 there's all these tools there's all these platforms the infrastructure is being built it's there we know what it's

going to be able to do we know what it can do but there are not enough people that are there actually combining the elements into something that's fun into something that people actually care about and not necessarily something that you're trying to sell people right everybody's like I make money drop an nft make you know it's like I think that that's done what social experience are you creating what town hall are you creating what if you're in a community and you're like let's all take this plot of land and turn it into a community garden where everybody can grow their food what's the equivalent of that in web 3 because the land is there the tools are there the seeds are there everything's there just nobody's saying like hey why don't we all do this together would that make a lot of sense right like nobody not enough people are

making that content to me is the social layer of the space I don't think that I think that's that's where we need to encourage people to come in and start thinking about and I think when people say oh community community like that's what we actually should be talking about we're talking about Community is creating strong online communities where people have a vested mutual interest right so I think even and to take it all the way back to all these Sports platforms Jay and everything it's like that's some of the best stuff they've done is actually given power to their communities and being offshot for example a year and a half ago started a program called a team captains program they gave every single day they took every team in the NBA they elected some of their top holders on Top Shot so if you had the most like Boston Celtics

moments or something like that you became the team captain or some some version of that they've edited them and they gave them a monthly budget and they're like here's a monthly budget bring other top shotters from that team go to NBA games together organize Barn make merch make a brand make like Celtic Top Shot club and that worked so well um I love that right because it's like I am identifying with my fellow Toronto Raptors fans we all love Topshop we're all together I went to a Raptors and Blazers game down in Portland with a crew of 50 of those people this past year really yes yes that's amazing that is the internet so much fun bringing people together which is as you said in the beginning that is exactly why we all

why we all need the Internet like yeah the Commerce side of it and the ability for us all to get online and make money is all great and that's you know can't deny that's why we're here partly but that's incredible and what's amazing about that is that this is where I kind of get caught because it's hard to see what the world would be like when we're all on chain right because one of the big hurdles right now is okay great you enable this community to happen but it's there's not enough of us really on chain where you can create these incredible experiences you can connect communities you can do as a brand you can track your customer in a way that you never could

before so you can engage because even that example you could not not do that before blockchain because you wouldn't have been able to I guess you could have like maybe you could do is you could go to season ticket holders and be like dude wait we're blockchain I'm not meeting up with strangers from the internet man are you crazy I don't murder like that's what I mean I'm like no no these are these are people I've known for a long time I've seen them buy things that matter you know what I mean it's like I could you know what I mean it's different you're like no I know this person we have the same buying Behavior yes that's Money Talks right like money is above all else and I think that that's the part that people are missing is that this isn't just about making markets around funny pictures

it's about being in a community that you know how much other people are spending on those assets think about like okay let's say you're part of a mountain biking Community what if you could always see every single purchase somebody makes your mountain bikes right like that'd be creepy they probably don't want that but I'm saying that this is being built with that layer of trust and visibility from the ground up so it gives you a sense that it's like oh you're meeting up other you know Raptors fans you're you're like oh here comes this guy this guy spent like 200 Grand on Raptors mode like top shots like guys a Big Kahuna you know he's not not some guys there's not some Creep from the internet yeah or it is because so many things to say about this one I just want to quickly say that I fired

fired up people freak out about the Privacy thing but ZK proofs is gonna solve that so everyone needs to chill out we will actually have more privacy than we do in web 2 because right now we have all of our data is all owned by somebody else and they know everything about us anyways and so we think that we're safe but the private thing everyone needs to take a deep breath on blockchain ZK will make sure that all your actions doesn't necessarily mean that somebody knows exactly who you are and everything you've done so that's one thing I have to say but the other thing I want to say here is it's not just where people put their money and that is the signal there's

also what I see coming is signal around action online right and so what I mean when I say that is there is more and more things are being brought online that is not necessarily tied to money so good example is we had just yesterday so a week ago when you're listening to this show we published a show with uh David Phelps the founder of joke race and what they are is basically what they said was we want to allow any brand to create a contest and I'm going to click contests and air quotes within their community so a good example would be if you're the NBA and you're like what philanthropic

Endeavor should we do next year right and you just you say we want our fans to tell us right like you know where should we be investing our money in in the philanthropic side and what you can do is you can have all your fans come in and submit proposals right so everybody comes in and submits a proposal and then your community votes on that proposal and you can either use tokens to allow list who can vote so it's not just like anybody can vote you could even say oh you have to have done these actions in order to vote so you're really making sure two things you're doing one is on the submission side it's on chain so on the submission side you start to see

that people are they're committed to this right they're not just like you know fly by night because they have this wallet and this identity right and then on the voting side you get to have who can vote on this should everyone who should be the jury right and then what you develop over time and this is where I get excited is the example that you just gave of this Boston Celtics you know Super Fan group is well what could happen is there's maybe the lead of this group he starts to because he does all these actions and people vote on him and they like him and they support him he builds a bit of an on-chain resume right

and now Brands other people build trust with him and we're not in this situation where right now where like we kind of have to trust creators without knowing like is what you're doing actually good you brought it up at the beginning how many creators have shielded tokens just to make a buck right well we bring our reputation on chain and that just becomes I get so excited when I think about that and this is what I mean these are those are really great examples the tools are there so who's creating the social layer right everybody's like you're saying but it's like once the tools are a little bit more accessible and people can do this and they understand I think that's when you'll see the explosion when people know how to actually use it even

like social media is a good example like yeah like people are age reusing it because it hit right when we're in college and that was like literally it was designed for us right by a guy our age but it didn't really hit an inflection point with people outside our age group and our demographic until people get self-organize until there were pages and groups where you could group together based on their interests and actually start to do stuff right so I think it's like now we have that but the tools are far greater and far more immense and create a far deeper layer of trust like you're saying and proof and yeah but somehow combined with better privacy right and better ownership of your data so it's like that once you hit that and you make it easy for people to use it I think that's when you see an

explosion of the space because it'll just it'll just make so much more sense Facebook didn't explode until everybody started saying oh did you see did you do this thing and they're like no they're like well I was on Facebook and that's that's when people started down is what they were like why only I was only I was able to buy this on Facebook I got the Groupon from my Facebook group you know those people who said oh yeah yeah it's it's where I get excited about what reddit's doing and I don't want to open that can of worms but like there is stuff happening I read it right now that is coming very soon with Community points and it's gonna put communities on chain and going to I think be a massive onboarding ramp for communities because

a lot of communities are going to start all people are going to start saying oh have you seen what this community is doing over on Reddit and then they're gonna go set up their community on Reddit so that they can use Community points yeah anyways okay let's talk about your project you you just launched the first mint media pass season one that's right did you did you launch it yet or is it coming actually it's out it's out it's been airdrops so quick background on the first mint when we started as a podcast in early 2021 a little bit for the NFD boom so we're I was very lucky to be one of the first voices if not the first voice that a lot of people heard when they wanted to learn about nfts because topshot was the first big nft in this current run and we

were the main show right so very very lucky and we've been fortunate since then we've been podcast we have newsletter we have a fantastic Community we've had a lot of different sponsors different uh sponsored episodes and tweets all that kind of stuff we used to do live shows and now we're going to bring them back and we are going to do live streams on YouTube as part of season one but the way we're choosing what the content is before I was the editor you know so I was like okay we're gonna have this guest and then we're gonna open these packs and we're gonna do all this fun stuff I'm not choosing a single thing of that I'm putting I'm putting the blueprint down but our community is choosing who comes on the show via this media pass okay well we're going to be doing 15 weeks of

live stream 15 shows each show is different right so one is trivia another one is like Shark Tank or anybody can come and Pitch their project and the only way to get onto them is to redeem a corresponding pass so right now our passes are unrevealed but you know if you had one Jay it might reveal and it might be trivia contestant and you can redeem that come on trivia and play for a prize and our trivia is famous people love our all that of trivia let's call it and there's trivia past there's Shark Tank pass and then there's 13 other utilities there's 15 different experiences we're calling them across our ecosystem some of them are promotional right like okay you come and promote your show on Shark Tank you can write a tweet on first mint you can I'm not going to say what the other ones are

but different promotional others are more competitive right like you come on trivia you can co-host the show with us right which is something a lot of people might want to do and then there's also a rewards tier where it's like you might get a piece of merch or you might get a private Zoom dinner with me and my brother my brother and I'd host a show together my actual real life brother so we're gonna do a little private Zoom dinner we're gonna send some food to your house and we're gonna sit and chat and eat and then there's still tons of other experiences so what this does is everybody in our community who owns one of our nfts was able to claim one so we have 210 that are out there and what this does is instead of you know letting our community decide what our content is

by a group vote format we are giving every single Community member the agency to make one decision about this if yours reveals and you have the tweet that is like well you can decide if you want to write a tweet on firstbid or if you want to trade that to somebody else for a different utility or if you just want to sell it to somebody who really wants that that's kind of the fun where it's like we know what the nfts are but we don't know what our community is going to care about the most and we don't know what they're going to fight over and we don't know who's going to come on the show because it's not up to us it's up to our holders so that's where it's a lot of fun you know and that starts on August 23rd I think it's a bit of a

first of its kind in terms as far as like nft media goes it's something that we literally could you couldn't do that really in real life with your normal show it's it'd be too messy having it on a chain like that makes it possible it makes it fast it makes it smooth people are participating from all over the world because our holders live all over the world and we're also you know from a selfish business perspective we're able to skirt a lot of laws like legal rappers because like I'm not selling any nfts I didn't do anything I just gave her droppings and so these things in a way like they don't have monetary value you just come on the show it's very simple so you know it's an easy way to use what's there like I keep banging the drum of use what's available but also

create a unique experience for us in our community yeah I love this concept of redeemables I think that redeemables is powerful it's such a powerful use case for nfts garyvee did this with the friends you could redeem for vcon ticket you could I think some of the original the Friends season one characters included redeemables for like meeting Gary things like sort of similar things that what you're talking about this kind of angles in the direction of this Loyalty Rewards community that you could not do this stuff before but kudos to

you guys what a fun thing for your community right now one thing I am curious what made you decide to distribute in the way you did of they're unrevealed and then they reveal because I obviously some people are going to want certain things more than others did you do this because you thought it would create trading and create like Community engagement if you just kind of had this reveal what were your thoughts uh okay so there's two things I'll say about what my actual like belief of when nfts can be and should be and this is something that I think the best projects this is what they do really really well these two things one is hard decision making for

the holder I think good nfts make you have to pick between two really great scenarios right off so far it's been hold or sell right but it's like you know I think that there's other layers and I think that that's I always think about it as like what is the next layer that this nft turns into and what is the next difficult decision you have to make about your team right so in terms of giving it that layer of like it's unrevealed and then it's revealed these are different decisions you make at different stages right so you have to right now it's like do I hold it do I sell it what do I and then when it reveals do I hold it do I sell it do I use it what do I do right so it's like hard decisions I think like that is one

of the keys of proper gamification is Happy choices that you have to make that are hard and the other key element is like a theatrical element I think nfts are like the little Russian dolls that keep opening into new fit and I think that that's one of the funnest things is that you never know what an nft is going to get you you never know what a new experience is going to be that's going to unlock or or what it might turn into and I think that that is the most important part of any proper like gamified nft is that there's always a new twist I had a guest on the show last year Mack Lavelle who was one of the brains behind crypto cuties years ago who runs big head and um he told me he was like road maps are dumb he's like I don't want road maps

he's like I don't want to know what's going to happen I want to be surprised and I really took that to heart because rather than you know in our blog post for this collection yeah I told people I'm like here's what they might do but I didn't say here's what they do exactly you know what I mean I didn't say here's exactly what happens at every stage like no no it should be a surprise I think that that's fun and I think that that's where like if you're saying to God season three you know there's all I think the good projects like they kind of keep you guessing and so keeping this thing then makes it hard for you to make decisions and those go really well together and I think that the best projects in the space are ones who who can really weave them together properly

so here's the thing that I get caught up on and this will be my last question before we wrap here is the revenue side of this so it sounds like a lot of your experiences don't cost you money although some do royalties have gone to zero I love this idea like we talk about this all the time at web3 Academy of how can we give more to our community but it's tough when I have to spend money to give something to them what's your mindset on that how do you think about the economics of it that's a great question right and I I think man I have so many thoughts Joe we can do a whole other

podcast about this part so a couple points one I'm a big believer in a thousand true fans right yeah like this whole concept that it's like online creators only need a thousand actual fans to make a living and I don't mean that in the way that I look at my community as people that I want to make money off of but I look at it as a way that it's like it's my job to entertain a thousand people regularly right and I feel like within our community we kind of have that or it's like well there's a lot of people really engaged this I don't need a million of them I like having a couple hundred a couple thousand who really love what we do and so when I'm planning projects like this it's almost just like more marketing for our ethos it's like what

is how do we make first mint even more first knit than how much it first myths right it's like this is what that is and that grows our profile it creates deeper affinity for who we are and then as a result then if I do that well then I can monetize that Affinity in different ways like you know by rebooting our brand with this we would have opportunities to maybe we could sell more nfts that are like patreon style like hey every month we're selling a new fun nft and it just goes to supporting the show by building deeper Affinity we're able to do those types of things not make money just stay alive so I think that's one belief I have that I think at first mint that's kind of what I lead with a lot and the other one I think is that we're in a

bear Market of one of the most creative Industries I think that's ever existed our job right now is to innovate there's nothing else to do the big money comes later when people come and there's all this money and millions and things are mooning all over the place then that's when you can release things that are sales that can you know are meant to be big and be this big exciting thing hopefully not a rug but it's like in the bear Market it's really hard to make money and I think trying to think about your next steps as how does this make money how does this make us a lot of money that's not really possible right now you know I mean people like that's why so few companies are being funded because nobody even the ones that are trying to say here's how we'll make

money the VCS don't believe them right so it's like for me I think it's a little ridiculous for me to go out and be like okay how can I you know make x amount of money from selling nfts right now I don't think that's the right thing to do I think by doing really cool fun Innovative stuff we're going to help push the industry forward and then there'll be this time to make that money whatever that is sponsor telling nfts whatever it is right it might might never sell nfts to our people I love the perspective I think that I don't approach it from the perspective of I need to make my money but I need to cover costs right or at least come close right for example I love the idea of redeemables so I would love to airdrop a whole bunch of our fans a merch

redeemable right or like a pass to a merch store where they can go into that merch store and they can redeem it for a hat or a t-shirt or something like that but like that's expensive right like you know that's gonna cost us a lot of money so I like that you came at it from the perspective of there seems like there's a bunch of these redeemables that don't cost you money such as having somebody on your podcast or letting them do a tweet which I think is very smart and that's the real some of the magic of digital loyalty is that you can create these experiences that don't cost you anything for the brand and that is amazing whereas in the past all loyalty was basically you had to pay to produce a product which you then had to ship to

your customer which costs you a lot of money so so I that's great I love what you're doing so I'm excited to watch from the sideline I might have to get one of these uh season one passes what's the cost right now I think there's an offer on the collection for 0.04 e so like 60 bucks okay okay yeah I think the market will pick up once they actually reveal because people don't know what they're getting right when did they reveal well I get a weird one probably in a week from now okay okay so by the time this comes out there'll be probably right around a minute okay and the last thing I'll say on your last bit there about like the cost of infrastructure manufacturing and all that kind of stuff is to bring it all the way back to you know I think what you we both consider

the segment leader is Reddit reddit's been making money on fake Internet points for years they started letting people buy Badges and give them to people you can then use in a store like what the hell you know what I mean they're making money from letting people put a little gold like Shield beside their post like that is insane but that shows you they've been able to monetize the status and comment and social discourse right so I think that's exactly it where I'm like what doesn't cost me money that people want very cool I have a bunch of boxes of old merch that I already made so I had some way to offload it that's the other secret but anyway yeah but good questions man it's good it's good to think about the business side for sure for all this and the way to certainly totally and so many of our

listeners like it's not just investors it's not just the users and the community members it's also the builders right because most people that are in this space right now are you're here because you're building something right and I love your perspective of just our job is to experiment and to innovate and to try things so shout out to you and the team at the first mint for experimenting excited to follow the journey we'll put a link in the show notes to the collection so if somebody wants to grab a season one pass you can do that LG as always such a pleasure to have you on the show bro so good to see you man thanks for the chat always I feel like we got really hyped up in the middle of this one I feel like we got really on a horse there and that was a

fun ride so thanks man good times I love it all right everybody thanks so much for listening have yourselves a great day thank you for listening to web3 Academy your one trusted source to capitalize on the next big phase of the internet if you enjoyed this episode please share it and subscribe or follow so that you don't miss the next one while you're at it there's a link in the description for a free newsletter where we provide timely and relevant web3 insights so you can confidently build and invest in web3 make sure to subscribe today one final note this podcast is for educational purposes only and nothing we say is financial advice crypto and Webster are risky and you should never invest more than you're willing to lose thank you friends and see you in the next one