Stable Intentional Communities

Transcript

Yes. Uh got to start again for live stream. Uh I'm happy to introduce uh Matias Fester who came all the way from northeastern Germany from Kle Yazidov a community that formed 50 years ago and moved to its current uh site 30 years ago. Uh we invited him as we are looking guy uh for for guidance, inspiration and and insights on how stable intentional communities form and persist over decades. Uh Matias is an author, translator and uh bridge builder from his community to other communities. So um in a way he's uh also

acting as an ambassador as as here but also uh between uh uh various uh uh intentional communities in in Germany. Uh he also likes to cook which we have in common. Um also he's uh publisher of uh the magazine uh OA which he brought here with him. Uh they're German. Uh I guess they're here to be looked at and and read and and >> thank you. Thanks a lot Matias. Uh will you come on stage? looking forward to your presentation. Thanks a lot for being here.

>> Well, thank you um Felix and Stefan for inviting me. Um good to be here. If you feel like coming closer, please do so. If you're comfortable where you are, uh it's fine as well. But, uh, the more the marrier, the closer, the, uh cozier. Yeah. Um, I've lived in Klein Yazidor, um, a commoning community for the past 18 years. um and exist uh much longer as you said it uh

existed for almost 50 years and uh 30 years at the same spot in Mikllinburg for Pomman uh western Pomerania it's the far northeast of Germany um that's where we are um it's in between Anklam and Gravald about 250 kilometers north of Berlin, 250 kilometers uh east of Hamburg. That's where we are. It's a as you can see a tiny village. Um the community was originally uh founded

in southern Germany in Upper Bavaria close to the place where you live, Stefan. Um and 30 years ago moved to the um the back of beyond. Uh um we'll come to that. Yeah. Um Clazido once was a half deserted village uh with derelict buildings in a structurally weak area. Uh 80% unemployment back then. um high votes for right-wing extremists. Um some things have changed, other things haven't really. So in two

weeks time there will be uh state elections in our state and the predictions for uh RFD are uh shockingly high something like 30% and well in our area in our commune it's typically 50% voting for extreme right-wing parties. So that's the outset, but some some things have changed. Um, we redecorated uh an old barn into a concert venue. Uh, as you can see here, um, we set up businesses. We set up a

free democratic school 10 years ago. uh doing quite well attracting people, families from all over Germany because it's a really special kind of school. Uh it's a kind of nonschool that is state approved at the same time because homeschooling is something that's very hard to do in Germany. It's a bit easier in Austria, easier in other European countries, easier in the US, um quite hard in Germany. So we set up a free democratic school uh that is in some ways uh similar to Satbury Valley school in the US. Um if you heard about that um

we do publishing, we do aging and regenerative agriculture. There are gardens. There is a gong manufactury. We uh where gungs like this one um is produced. I don't think it comes from our manufacturing but there are about two places maybe three in Germany where guns are produced. We are one of them. It's uh handiccraft. Um we do kids circus camps every year where kids come and live with with us for a week and experience coming and uh all kinds of artistry. Um we've got a

traditional sailing boat uh uh created a regional network uh and do political activism because we have to. There is no other choice of uh staying and surviving in in an area like ours without uh having uh a word in the community council and um yeah so that's some of the things what there is now and what we do and again it started in 1976 1977 seven. Um, it was started by physicians. Uh, you

can see them here. Here you can see a fairly recent uh picture of uh the four founders. To my mind, it's the longest standing uh community in Germany where the founders still live together. Um and that's been for 50 years now. Um now we've grown. You don't as you mentioned as you we've uh grown

from around 30 people to uh 60 people without uh within the past two years uh 45 adults uh 20 children and as you can imagine that's quite a process but it's also it's a good process. It's uh rewarding and it's it's working out but it takes time. It takes trust and yeah um this is the human inhabitants. Then there are our neighbors. It's about seven to eight families who mostly lived in that village before we arrived.

And then there are chicken, cats, sheep, garden, flower bushes, stones and many more than human people uh we share life with. And yeah, now I've told you where we are and what we do, but I think much more interesting is how we do the things we do. Um, we call ourselves our commoning community. Well, it doesn't really have a name and uh we just didn't want the mistake to wake up one day, one morning and find out, oh,

we've given ourselves the wrong name. So, we just didn't name ourselves. It's just Klein Yazido as the village has been called forever. But the kind of community the coming commoning community we uh try to be we found a name for that the form of organization and that's common with a common in German um which stands for a commoning community with a polyentric structure. There is not just one center there. There are uh central uh there are different uh earth

fires where people gather around and uh at some point we we all come together. Um and we have a strong oral tradition. Principles are mainly passed on by storytelling and we actually don't have any written set of rules. We don't write down rules or principles as far as the community and community life is concerned. And the principles that are uh that govern our uh daily life actually come down to two questions.

What can I do to make community work? It's the first question. And the second one, what can I refrain from doing that upsets you? That is the second question. And if I can't refrain doing something that annoys you, if I just can't because it's part of what I am, then we need to talk.

We need to get together, have a conversation, and find out how to deal with it. And that is uh yeah, that is what governs our relationships within. But there are also relationships without and uh we've got various legal forms and buddies and of course they do have written statutes, agreements, contracts and whatever you need to have such a legal body and uh we've always had more than one legal body. Um there's an association, there is a

cooperative. Uh we finally managed to set up a foundation, a trust, which is really a good thing. It's as you can imagine, it's quite hard. you need quite a lot of funds uh to build a foundation but I think it's really um the one legal form that comes closest to a commons because a common is actually not owned by people but owns itself and people come and say okay I will be a guardian I belong to this commons it's not that it's not a resource that belongs belongs to me or to anyone else.

No, I belong to it. I dedicate myself to it. I commit myself to it. And that's the the basic principle of uh foundations that they are not owned by persons but owned by themselves and uh theoretically theoretically are there to stay. Um can't be bought, can't be sold. Um yeah, we've actually got a a saying.

It's we we are not a religious community. There are I mean there are things you could call spiritual but I'm not very fond of the term spirituality. Uh there are metaphysical aspects definitely and not all of the people living there agree on the same metaphysical mindset which is just fine. But we've got a a there's a biblical saying that we use quite a lot. Give to Caesar what is Caesars and to God what is God. So it's not God in our case.

It's not old guy with beard, but it's the inner essence. That's what's really really important to us. That's what we therefore. So, um, and that actually means make the most of legal forms because you can't, uh, you can't operate in this society without a legal form. Make the most of it, but don't mix up the cover with the inner essence. They're two different things. And of course they they they there needs to be a dialogue between the outside and the inside but they may be completely different things. So we set up a school, we do everything to protect

it and we are uh we uh are in good contact with the Ministry of Education and whatever they want us to do, we try to satisfy their needs. So that we are free to do in the inside that what we really believe in and mostly they let us do whatever we want as long as they have uh all their check boxes filled in. Um, another aspect of how we do things is making kin and kind. I'm sure you all know the quote by Donna Harrowway. Um

so we uh yeah we we actually over the years we noticed that when people live together with a high degree of commitment and a long-term perspective they uh they start to bond. They might not uh have been best friends in the beginning. They may be quite diverse, but living together, sharing love, life, birth and death, it bonding starts to happen. And you will probably end up as something

like like a clan or a large family or a community. And this this happens maybe even to people who who didn't even like each other in the beginning but they have something in common and that's why they came there ended up there and uh uh start to make kin and this applies not only to Klein Yazidor but also to other communities uh that we connect with and uh are making kin with if you're interested in that uh can tell you a bit more later.

This image for instant instance is not from clazidor that's uh from house vandals a queer feminist community in Brandenburg uh halfway between Berlin and Frankfurt and their order. Um that's where my uh partner lives. So, and this community is so important to her as is my community to myself. So, that that it it's always been clear we're going to visit us as often as possible, but we're not going to move together into an apartment in the middle. Wouldn't make any sense, but uh and thus kinship is created and it extends to the people we live with.

um they become related to each other as well but again it takes time and trust. Um so how else do we things uh the art of improvisation is really important. The four founders uh are all musicians um and they all do improvised music and improvisation has become uh a principle principle that governs our everyday life. It's um something that's become quite important

to myself. I'm not a musician. I like to listen to music but I don't play an instrument. But improvisation on a daily basis um includes that every voice gets heard. Everything that's in the room is important and you can't ignore it. That wouldn't be good improvisation. And there is always a a dance. You connect and everything that happens in the room changes the whole. It's a systemic ecosystemic approach. Um, and it can be applied to quite a lot of things. Um, as Ysef Boyce uh famously said, the artist

workshop is between the people. So, we're actually uh living in uh an artistic workshop on an everyday basis no matter what we do. Um, and try to listen to each other. And sometimes the music is better or more uh has more uh melody to it. But it's always music and sometimes there are dissonances. Then you need to work as long as it takes to turn it into a harmony. But this harmony is not going to stay forever. Um and

there is uh there is one one essence uh I found over the years three spheres that are really really crucial for uh how we do things and how we are in the world. Uh it starts with two other things freedom and interdependence. Uh in German I would say fry height and fontenheight. Um this to me is the spectrum that uh within all of life takes place. Uh and they always go together in my view. I don't think there is absolute freedom

without interdependence. I think it's only through interdependence that we can have certain freedom and the other way around there is no complete interdependence. Fabundant height without freedom wouldn't make any sense. I mean that would be a prison. We we don't want to have a prison. So you need both interdepend interdependence and freedom. And w within this spectrum there are three fields that are also closely related. Commoning, care and subsistence and conviviality. Uh also I think these three belong

together. You can't have one without having at least aspects of the other ones. That's my deep belief. I'll go into these uh in a bit more detail and uh some in some more detail uh in the afternoon second part. Um yeah, there is another one. Uh the order has actually been mixed up, but that shouldn't be a problem. Another how the art of prefiguration.

Um that's what in German we call for this is our oya year book uh for this year it's uh called for um I'll leave the books here for you. They are in Germany only unfortunately. Um what does that mean? There's a wonderful quote by David Crara. I'll read it out to you. building the new in the shell of the old. Instead of ceasing state power first and hoping a free society magically emerges later, activists must act as if they are already free.

I think there's a lot of wisdom to it. So I mean one way would be to do lobby uh work lobbying or to plan a revolution and once the revolution has come then we start to live the way we want it's one way uh it's not my way uh I really think that it's a good thing to be the change you want to see in the world be it here and now and uh that's never easy and you can never live up to it 100%. No way because we're living here and now. We need legal forms

and all the stuff but still we can uh we can live our inner truth. try to do it here and now uh the best we can and this will have some kind of impact. It may be very small, sometimes it may be bigger and sometimes it's just like uh a seed but still a seed is there and it might uh grow into uh a plant at a later point. So we never really know

when the things that we believe and will uh kick off and will become really important but still it's worth going for it. prefiguration. Then uh care and subsistence that's uh on a daily basis caring for each other not only among humans but also caring for land uh caring for a place. Uh yeah that's really one of the essentials convality uh term co by Ian Ilich who was born a 100 years ago in Vienna great great

social philosopher um he said I consider conviviality to be individual freedom realized in personal interdependence and as such and intrinsic ethical value. Um, this, as I said, this mustn't be restricted to to uh the human sphere. Just think of the gut bacteria I've got uh inside of me. It's uh quite a lot. I think it's it's it's about uh a kilo of tiny tiny bacteria and they keep me alive. Without them, I couldn't live for five minutes.

It's really amazing. So, it's uh that that's a uh an interplay between many many many actors uh and they can only exist within freedom and interdependence. They couldn't live without me. But but I'm 100% dependent on them. Interdependent conviviality um living together well and commoning of course um the commons expert and Marxist historian Peter Linbo famously said there is no commons

without commoning. I think that's very important. Comments are not things that are just there. They're not really nouns, but they're actually verbs, processes. Uh so it's commoning. Commoning is what keeps commons going and makes them into commons. And uh there is an uh amendment there because there is also no commoning without commoners and there are no commoners without commoning communities and no single one community is alike.

They all are different but you can find common principles and shared values that help in coming. And another thing that we work with a lot on a daily basis are the patterns of commoning developed by the late great Silka Hrich and David Bolier. Um, I don't know whether you're familiar with it. I think it's really a great tool that's uh freely available on the web, at least the German version of this book, free, fair, and the life. Uh, you

find it uh as open access uh online. and Silka and David they are close collaborators uh with Michelle Bowens. Uh I remember 11 12 years ago Silka David Michelle and Hiker Lashman uh of the German Bulldong came to visit us in Klazid was uh was really great. We took them on a trip with our traditional sailing boats and uh had deep conversations.

So, Sila and David uh started out with the pattern language approach, the design pattern language approach which you might know developed by Christopher Alexander. um and they started to build upon a uh pattern language of commoning. So patterns are not invented. They are not creatively made up. They are identified in German.

[clears throat] So it's really they had a close look at commoners and people doing actual commoning. How do they do this and defined patterns? So in a way these patterns have a uh truth to them not in an absolute sense but it's a kind of empirical contextbound truth because that's it's based on actual practice. Um and I really invite you to check them out on on the net. Uh um they can be so helpful. There's also a card deck to work with them. uh in a playful way. Um

and they are formula formulated in in a way that suits many contexts. you can actually you can use them in your local uh council and but I think you could also talk to at least certain CEOs uh about this and they could see what what's uh uh what's the meaning to them um just things like ritualized togetherness trust situated knowing um create semi-permeable membranes rather than fixed boundaries.

Um and many more things. Um yeah, it's there for you to find. It's out there. And this what was it actually? Um here you can see our boat uh that we took Michelle and Yetis on. Um here are a few uh websites. Uh they all in German I'm afraid, but you can find more information there. And if you're

interested in any details, you're welcome to send me an email. And now I'm really curious on your questions and comments. Thank you. [applause] Maybe one more thing there is uh Okay. Right. Yeah. How do we get full screen again?

>> Yeah. Uh thank you so much for the talk and uh I'm very curious how did you manage to scale up from 30 people to 60 in two years? >> Yeah. Uh Mhm. Good question. It's uh it's not over yet. So we uh we're still managing. [laughter] Um, first of all, we just realized that we we needed to become more people because there's so many uh areas uh and so many fields and the school is growing, agriculture needs more hands.

And so we um invited and it was actually by a word of mouth. We didn't we didn't uh we didn't send any emails. We didn't upload anything. uh on the web. We had a printed invitation and all of us were invited to spread the the invitation and then we we organized uh four gettogethers. Um we called them uh Akund's fest exploratory festivals

get togethers for uh a couple of days where we invited all the people who were interested um and to a great surprise I'd say 90% of the people who attended said at the end of that year here. I'm going to move to you. I want to live with you. Um, we didn't do any assessment. We had talked about it a lot. And I mean, if there had been one of us already living there, uh, who said no way, uh, it won't work out with with that

person, then we would have talked about that. But that wasn't the case. um with each and everyone we had the feeling yeah well it's legitimate that to uh give it a try. Uh well I personally would say they uh there were hardly people that I uh thought I will become best friends with them. Now two years later it's become different. I I mean I I got to know them, they got to know myself and we are starting to grow to each other. So I think um

maybe it's not the best idea to share your best friends around you and say hey let's start a community. Maybe there are other things that are more important, shared values. And by visiting us, these people uh experienced what we stand for and what's important to us. And that was actually the filter. Plus, we uh had no spare uh rooms. So we said you you're welcome to come but you must create together with us your living room your space the space you you will uh live in. So

some started in a tent uh and we're actually in the planning uh phase of building activity. We need to build uh houses. We haven't started yet with the actual building. Um, but that's something that will keep us busy in the next few years. And it's worked out surprisingly well. But the the process is the integration process is not over, but it's uh no one left so far.

Yeah. >> Um, hi. Uh you said that uh 50% of your community vote for rightwing. >> No, not of the community. >> But of the municipality. >> Oh, okay. >> No one in our community uh will give their votes to a right-wing party. But the municipality it's about uh there is uh uh there is a small town it's one of the smallest towns in Germany uh called Lassan uh with uh uh 1,300 inhabitants and all in all in the municipality it's uh 1,700

people including uh the 60 people living in Klein Yazidu and 50% sense of uh the inhabitants of that municipality that did vote voted for AFD which is quite shocking but they are our neighbors they were there uh before we came so we can't isolate them we are 60 they are more than a thousand we can't isolate them we can't even say us and them, it it wouldn't feel right because we're in this all together and

still we've got fascism rising. Hey, that that is a big problem. So, we deal with that on a daily basis and we don't have a single one answer. But it's >> how do you deal with that? What do you mean? Um well first of all we we don't know who votes for what party. I mean that's the the principle of uh democratic elections that it's uh your private choice. So we can only guess but we know 50% of the people voted in that

way. uh we we try to uphold uh good uh relations to our neighbors, try to find things that we may have in common when it comes to keeping livestock and gardening. We have a lot more in common when it comes to politics. Um and surely from their perspective, we are the freaks. We're the ones who came a couple of decades ago uh just after they had been traumatized when the wall came down and they had experienced a uh societal collapse.

For some people it felt like like a collapse. Um so we we talk wherever possible. Sometimes it's not. Um, sometimes we organize parties together, but only sometimes because our celebration culture is quite different from most of the locals. So there are a few occasions every year where where we all get together and this is always good. Uh but then it's also good to to acknowledge that there are different

cultures and um but yeah I don't I don't have a solution. Uh I mean you all you all experience the the right the swing to the right and and fascism rising in the US and in Europe and elsewhere. So um these are very interesting times and uh I wonder what we will all make of it and where we will end up.

>> Yeah, sorry for for uh having not made that clear in the beginning. >> Thanks thanks for for asking and for making me clarify this point. The most interesting slide that I found I mean there were many interesting slides but you said that you have a tradition of storytelling through which you pass on how the community functions. So you don't have like but in the next slide then you said that you have legal structures in which you have like contracts, statues whatever that is needed. So I assume like most people and places there is also a bit of

contradiction within which you exist, right? Uh I wonder if you can speak to that more. >> Well, life is full of contradictions espec uh especially when uh prefiguring there there are so many contradictions. Uh um well, we do have contracts and legal documents for legal bodies that need to have them. And we try to formulate these contracts as well as possible to make them work. But this is not uh how we are related to each other and how we deal with each other. there is uh there is no

rule book how the community works. Uh there are companies and associations that are they are part of the community but they are not the community. They are not identical with the community really. Our the the thing that we call common kleazidu doesn't have a legal form. Not at all. It's just a bunch of people, a few bunches of people living together. Um and then uh yeah there is a lot of story storytelling. Once a week we come

together um kind of assembly we call it palava. uh we c come together to talk whatever needs to be talked of um in the way a certain thing needs to be talked of. So uh we we can sometimes we talk about uh issues that need to be dealt with and sometimes we just tell each other stories. So how has your summer been? uh how are you? What's uh what's important to you at the moment? What troubles you?

Uh but at other times we are talking about raising money for this and that or uh um the need to make wood for the winter otherwise our heating won't work and uh all these things and yeah I think that's one aspect why uh growing to our community takes time. It's it's not a checklist.

Um it takes time to uh absorb a way of living and by doing so changing and influencing this way of living because it's a living system. It's an organism. So every person who joins our community uh also coins the community in a way curious about slightly similar qu uh question that Nana asked um which is something related to this that you that you don't have the rules written and that there is the oral tradition and

then you also mentioned at some point that um something about patterns, how patterns are um something that is revealed. Um so I wondered, but you could slightly also answer to that as well, like what patterns have um surfaced in this atmosphere of like freedom and and trust and slowness. >> Yeah. Um >> is it just the weekly gathering or are there like more forms of like patterns that are that have been uh present in all over all of these years?

Yeah. >> Yeah. Thank you. Um yeah, there are there are many patterns we really work with on a daily basis. One is called ensure transparency in a sphere of trust. This one is really close to me. I even like the German wording better which is um transparenc and sure transparency in a sphere of trust. So it's not me telling you

uh tell me everything about you be transparent. No, it doesn't work that way. Um it's first you need to create a sphere of trust and everyone involved needs to do everything necessary to ensure a sphere of trust. And this trust also needs uh to be attended to. It's like trust is like a commons. It's not just there. Uh it needs trusting on a the process of trusting each other to create a sphere of trust. And once

that is there, we can show ourselves to one another and be transparent. Um what else? Uh share knowledge generously. Um bring diversity into shared purpose. Um cultivate shared purpose and values. And speaking of diversity, there's actually another another principle I could have included in there, but then I just uh

forgot when preparing the presentation. Um, I'll say it in German first. That's really that's a line we we coined and we we use it a lot. Way better than a bunch of likeminded people is a community of unlikeminded people.

I think there is a lot of truth to it because it's it's not uh it's okay to be unlikeminded but it's important to bring diversity into a shared purpose that is essential and still diversity is uh it's not only legitimate it's uh important Nature is full of diversity.

Diversity ensures our survival. There is no survival without diversity. But still we need the shared purpose. So it's from my p perspective it's better to uh be a diverse community than a uh likeminded single-minded bunch group of people.

I have a question uh following up on the shared purpose. Um I'm very interested in the different businesses that you're operating together, the gong manufacturing, the school. Um curious if you could just talk a bit more about how those evolved and how they support the community, how the community interacts with them, just any more information about all the the shared purpose there. Mhm. Yeah. Thank you. Businesses and projects um they all have their own history and they uh came into being um whenever the time was ripe. So and and whenever uh

opportunity arose. So nothing of this is based on a master plan because it's it's all improvised. But that is only half of the truth. I think you can only improvise well when hearing some kind of symphony within yourself. And that's not a preset symphony. That's maybe it's the symphony that uh emerges from a certain space from a certain group of people. So only only when when

I can hear all your voices and see all your gifts and sense them can I uh make my own voice heard in relation to all your other voices and still I may be surprised about the the gifts you have got up your sleeve. uh but it improvising doesn't work from a cold start. I think that there needs as with transparency I mean improvising making music living together doing a business with each other uh

needs trust as well as does transparency. So, uh, >> yeah. Is there anything more specific you you would like to know about? >> Well, I I know that in a lot of communities, a shared purpose is really what keeps it continuing over many years. And so, I mean, I'm thinking of like Mandreon as an example of a place where the an economic activity, a business activity is really kind of held. And I'm wondering if any if there were any of those that were like that for your community.

>> Last night we uh talked about ends and means outside in the garden. And I would say that all our businesses are uh means not ends. I think they at the end of the day they are all disposable. I work in publishing and this really uh there is a lot of life blood in there and then and I really put my heart in there.

So two two uh issues of the magazine about commoning uh we no longer do the magazine but do yearbooks instead. So, but when the time has come that uh this is no longer relevant or viable, I'll be happy to compost it. This really wouldn't uh change my being or my feeling to the community and the people I live with and the place I live it. It's something that's very important to me but still it's a means and not an end in itself.

I think that would be my answer. I have one comment and one question. Starting with the comment, something mentioned yesterday in the Polish Labs talk that I found very relevant is the suggestion to prioritize emotional maturity over ideological u homogeneity which I think reflects pretty much the rather a diverse community than a bunch of like-minded people.

uh and the other the question is also about economic activities and it's well I think twofold one for one I'm interested as I understood uh you have one shared treasury so that I would assume that then any ventures you do as community also you com you you take the risk as shared risk in the community and also so you share share both the upside and the downside of of entrepreneurial activity.

But then how do you come to agreement on what ventures to dare? >> Yeah, I agree with um the first part comment. Um we've got a shared economics um as a community as 60 people living together sharing life and sharing a household or various households.

Uh everyone contributes uh uh various gifts including money on a monthly basis but there is no fixed amount people have to uh give. There is a common understanding that uh it just needs all of us and all of uh the gifts we have to give. But there is no expectation that people put all their money

uh in the community. Um, and well, it's when we don't have enough money to uh buy our food or to uh finance this or that, then we need to talk and that's what we do. And uh so far it's always worked out like someone sending an email uh we have 5,000 euro short of this they usually people find some money in their pocket and

um so this is everyday life. It's different with um yeah and that's where we all share the whole responsibility for our being able to uh have heating in the winter. It's different with the businesses because uh uh they are organized differently and there are chairpersons uh there uh there are managers and usually people are trusted when they accept a certain responsibility.

uh the other ones trust them that they will do a good job or that they will talk to the others uh if something doesn't work out but in that case it's really their responsibility. So uh you've got 60 people doing everything they can to live together well. And you've got a handful of people who might go to jail if something doesn't work out. That's the way it is.

And it needs a certain precondition. to be able to live with that perspective. And no one no one wants to go to jail. No one has gone to jail yet. Uh but still I mean it's like maybe that's part of the contradictions we we live with but it's um uh I mean is it fair that way? I don't know but I actually don't believe in equality that says we are all the same and we should all share our part of the same responsibility

because we are not alike on a very very basic level we are we are mammals like all the other mammals we are nature like all the rest of nature on a very basic level there is nothing whatsoever that distinguish distinguishes me from that leaf out there with carbon and some other things and we are part of a great uh metabolism of life.

On that basis we're all the same and on uh from another perspect perspective we are very different and are not alike at all. Uh so yeah um there there is a saying there couple of years a book came out about commoning it's called uh alis for all for everyone all for each and everyone and I always thought yeah good title but it's only half of the truth uh Sure, everything for everyone. But in order to make that work, everyone needs

to contribute everything that he or she is able to contribute. As I happen to have the mic, you can hear me. First of all, I want to say um I feel more human listening to you. I feel a sadness of recognition of something in me. So, thank you for that. >> Thank you. And um the more practical question is um assuming that kind of like spirit or whatever like you know how do you maintain that when you go practical when you like do business meetings for example I mean for lack of a better word or you go like doing economic stuff like how do you

transition or like how do you keep that spirit and I suppose there's going to be a loss of something but how do you recuperate I mean what's how do you >> in my terms at least maybe are I would say there are two spaces a more soulful space and more practical space. How do you navigate between the two of them? I'm just curious like of examples or or something like that. >> I think my answer would be that uh in my experience there are no two spaces.

There's only one space. And well, I personally live with all all the contradictions and all my joys and all my fears and all my hopes. I live in a single one space that I share with other people. And if I have nightmares about uh uh connected to lack of money or whatever.

So that's something everyone else needs to cope with and we can we can have a talk and I can yeah I I can tell the others and they just need to cope with that just as I need to cope with uh their being whether they are a baby or a a 80year-old person We just we're sharing life with all contradictions and sure a uh a business meeting has other requirements than uh than a chat at the

fireplace but still it's it's one room. like being yourself. >> I don't think I'm afraid of being myself. Gosh, I have a lot of fears. Um, we're living in the midst of climate change. There is fascism rising. Um, we're in the midst of collapsing civily systems.

I want my children to to live and to grow and to have a perspective uh in life. Um I think only by addressing these fears and acknowledging them can I be hopeful in a grounded way. And indeed um I do have hope. So maybe but more about it in the hope punk part this afternoon.

>> Can I ask you make a photo with me? >> Uh um I have two question. It's not simple question. >> [laughter and gasps] >> Uh first of all I I thank you uh for for all of your work and uh my question uh it's a slide about commons uh when people stay together. Yeah. Is it is that yes this is yeah uh I'm from Ukraine and I coordinate a network of our villages. I work with gen network and u

uh it's about technology because uh in Ukraine uh right now we can stay together and uh we not live as a communities and uh when we take this technology uh uh we have a problem uh why because uh when we have not culture of sitting in the circle circle when we uh have not uh culture to be open uh when we have a big trauma of believing because we live in Sovietic country when believe each other it's very traumatic sometimes and now we live

in this post collapsing uh country and um all uh time uh I eight years working with this technology of community children, sociocratic and nal communication. Uh when people gathering together all time we lost these people, we lost our uh people in community. We lost we have a lot of uh uh conflicts and trauma after after this circle because uh we have as a different uh maybe culture or other things and when we take it uh and gather it uh we need to take uh not only books

uh it's when when you uh show this uh uh case it's it's good case but uh for uh countries not western countries my my idea after eight years of working with that uh is uh that uh you need be very how to say delicate uh with adaptation this country who know who hasn't this culture or these models of together living because uh between our villagers in echo village sometimes distance is a hectares of the land and we not live

together we not touching as a body every day and that is the problem when you take this technology and put this technology in other country and that what I want to say every time when we show these cases because it's it's really important because we have a lot of um problems with that and um and uh sometimes I I say that it's danger for us. It can be danger because we can lost all our network all our villages because we uh study people for be specialist in sociocratic or other

community building cases and they migrated to country. We prepare when we building as equival design education courses in Ukraine. We prepare specialist for western countries because they move and they work to building an German network, Netherland network, Danish network, Swedish network. We lost these people in Ukraine better people and that is the problem. And uh how to adaptate it is a good question and maybe it's next level uh have to sitting and making a circle about discussion uh how we can adapt it

for postc colonial countries for more maybe global south countries because it's work for western but sometimes it's a problem uh and uh I have a lot of uh uh points when it's not work for us that is first question it's it's not question it's about my pain sorry because I work with that and next uh it's about IFD why it's so popular sometimes I thinking uh maybe it's not uh it's very radical think but I thinking that uh uh it's a why why it happens It's uh because uh

because you don't see war in Ukraine because left uh have a lot of energy to speak about never stop speak about Palestine but when we stop speak about Ukraine uh people stay tiring very fast because stop stop speak with that uh let's speak about something else because it's very hard to discussion about what is pacifism in Ukraine, how can be pacifist in Ukraine when part of Yoko village uh it's a a military man and part is as a unmilitary man who uh

stay at home uh uh to protect for mobilization. uh I I'm not explained deeply but that is a problem because we should more deeply understand it what is going and I think that uh it's uh closed every time discussion but Ukraine it's near and this far coming to German very fast h and uh and that is the answer why people choose so radical. Uh maybe maybe that is sorry.

>> Yeah. Well, thank you. Um I don't think the AfD has any answers to uh the threat of war. Uh I hope that it uh won't come to this country and to Germany. And I'm very I'm very sorry for for your loss and for the threat you have been living into for years now. Um nothing of this is meant for export.

It's not meant to migrate. It's just an example, a placebound example, a a contextbound example that I am sharing with you. And I do believe that there are certain principles in there that might work for other communities in other countries and other contexts. And I do believe so because most of what I've told you uh

is not of our own making. It's not something we designed. It's like the patterns they are just there. They are to be found on practically every continent in not everywhere but there are commoning communities all over the world and there have been uh for thousands of years. We know something about uh commoning structures in medieval times.

We hardly know anything about commoning in Neolithic times. But there are certain hints that this is part of a tradition uh that is a lot older than modernity and a lot older than the patriarchal warfaring civilization. It's a big word. I believe this is a lot bigger.

than the patriarchal warfaring civilization we are living in, we have been living in for the past 6,000 years. Six millennia, that's just a blink of an eye. uh compared to human history. There's a great book by archaeologist Har Mea. Um he's actually the state archaeologist in the German federal state that is about to be taken over by the AFD.

Saxon Anhy, he's the state archaeologist there and and organizes all the big museums and um he wrote a book about war, the history of war and he he dates it back to ancient Egypt some 4,000 years ago. Uh there were conflicts before that and there was aggression but there was no organized warfare. So this is a fairly recent uh phenomenon that distinguishes us from

the rest of nature. Maybe in chimpanzees something that has connections to organized warfare can be found but the rest of nature just doesn't know it. There is uh there are people eating each other, digesting each other, but there is no organized warfare with one group uh exterminating the other. That's a really strange human concept that's come up in the past four or five millennia.

Are you familiar with Ulus? Such a great comic artist. She was born uh close to Vienna, lives in Berlin now. She's she's done two really great graphic novels. Um as mench, such a great title. uh uh well, woman as man in the meaning of mankind. Because uh until recently, archaeology almost exclusively focused on uh the male part of our species.

um we're interested in kings and warriors and uh this is changing slightly and she lust made a great graphic novel in two parts. the fra as mentioned it actually takes place right here in the Danub value uh valley sorry Danub valley uh in the present and at the same time 30,000 years ago and it tells a lot of our nonwarfairing history and commoning practices back then uh it's based on archaeological findings and it has a lot of imagination

in there because some things we just cannot know. Uh again I think this is way bigger than the evening news and uh I really really I do hope that there will be peace for Ukraine soon. I that's my hope. Yeah, let's go. Let's Let's all go. And invites I will fill a car with people

and stuff to go to Ukraine and I I invite other hubs to do the same. Uh yeah, hopefully next spring. Um I'm conscious of the time because um 12:30 um I had many questions but I reduced to just uh really like uh how big is the land that you have? Um and then also like what is the place of technology? Do you use technology at all and what is its place and your view on that?

>> Yeah. Um how much land do we have? So it's about uh half half a tiny village and 30 hectares of land. We didn't have any land when it started. It took decades till we were able to get some land because uh agricultural industry is very strong in that area. Uh there is one company uh a uh successor of uh the former GDR state system that owns 5,000 hectares of land

and uh is grabbing all the land it can but we managed to get 30 hectares ourselves and since we have become land owners we can actually talk to that corporation. Before that they they weren't willing to even talk to us but now we are land owners ourselves with 30 hectares. Um yeah uh would be enough land to feed not only us but also parts of our region. But at the moment there are not not enough hands, not enough people to uh do productive food farming. Well, we we do

some and we try to emalurate the soil which is uh quite a task because it's technically it's desert the land up there but we we try to uh build up uh soil quality again it takes time and trust patience technology um oh we do we do use technology uh by far not as advanced as you do here.

I'm I'm impressed by things I hear that you are able to do with these magical tools. Um we actually had a media media company. It's something that uh uh there is no use for today. Uh but 20 or 30 years ago that was really a source of in income doing graphics uh doing some programming um for people who can't do that themselves.

Now it's all become desktop and AI and that's uh that's why we we stopped that business uh uh more than 10 years ago. Um so we were really we were cutting edge when we came to that village. They actually some of the local people thought we were part of the secret service because we had computers and quite a lot of them. Um um yeah we do we do use technology. I guess we've become a bit old fashioned uh for

now. At least I have. Um, I'm only using secondhand uh hardware. Uh, and I'm I'm happy with it. And I'm uh I'm really grateful to Nina for providing her computer because mine uh is built in 2009. Can you imagine that? Uh it's got no interface. Um I'm a special case.

There are people in our community with more advanced hardware. Um and still I think uh the most important things happen uh face to face. Um, and the the average average age at our place is uh is 42. I'm slightly above the average including one year olds and 84 year olds. So we we can't really use uh uh messenger systems

for daily updates. It doesn't work for the 84 ones. We we com communicate a lot uh by email. The younger half of the community uh including myself just about uh using signal. Um, so we're we're not we're not primitivists, but uh yeah, just we're integrating the technology we can handle into our daily.

Uh I wanted to ask about uh integration and onboarding. So you seem to have very successfully onboarded a lot of people and what does that look like for people joining? Um what about um the types of people like I'm thinking of diverse range of people. You might have people who already have an employment that is remote and digital versus people who um have skill sets that are more practical and on hand and therefore therefore require require um integrating into the physical production

of things in locally locally. So people who are more engaged with the global versus local versus local and and then another is thing is um romantic relationship relationships. So people who are already family versus people are not. So I I think these are the two areas that I'm curious. Yeah. >> What that looks like. >> I suppose these are two things that to any community anywhere and uh um my answer to the first will be the practice of uh shared economics. Uh we

uh uh we all give money and we all take money um according to that what we can give, what we can contribute and what we need to take. And it's always uh a matter of uh discussion and just your own needs and that which is possible. So it's it's like a dance all the time. But it's um but someone who who doesn't uh doesn't

earn any money but contributes a lot to the household can still take out money of our communal funds. And there are people who go away for a weekend and bring home cash. And that's not uh more important than people uh tending children baking bread and and cooking soups. I don't know if that answers the first part in Hunter. That's just one thing that that comes to me in in uh hunting

gathering societies that there there's an example it's from southern southern Africa uh when when hunters used to come home with a lot of meat they were actually ridiculed by the whole village not because their people were cruel but because they wanted to help them. They wanted to prevent them from getting mealomania from thinking they are the best and they are superheroes because they uh they hunted an animal and bring home the meat and then the

grandmothers took the meat and distributed it between villages. I think that's it's not exactly the case at our place but It's like going away and giving a lecture is not necessarily more impressive than staying at home and doing care work. At least that's what we try to live up to. Um, romantic relationships. Uh, yeah.

I would say I don't I don't mention that very often because it can easily be misunderstood what I say but I would say one thing that is at the core of our community is love. >> Yeah. Okay. Uh, one thing that uh that is at the core of our community is love. But there's so many different ways of uh love.

There's not only romantic love. Uh there is love between friends. There is love between human people and a piece of land. There is love between parents and their children. There is love between not parents and uh [sighs] uh children and elderly people. There is love for humanity. So many different ways of love. Um that's one point. And yes, romantic love affairs. Uh well, they they are part of the

the space we share. And when couples separate, it does something to each and everyone. And it happens now and then as it uh tends to happen anywhere. Um um I can't give you a more general answer, but I can give you a more personal answer. Um, six years ago, I uh separated from my long-term partner

and whom uh I've got two kids together with and I'm so grateful for being embedded in a community because that uh enabled us to stay at the same place to share the same large household. My part my exartner myself and the kids. And it hasn't always been easy, but we found a way to get around without one of us having to move away, which would

would have been the likely scenario had we lived in a city just by ourselves. So, moving out of a shared uh apartment while still being embedded in the community and sharing the big household and also having the option of not having to see each other all the time if we don't feel up to that. and I'm really happy to share life with my ex partner and 59 other people.

Uh and yeah, so I think socially communities open up more possibilities. Uh but it's a very delicate thing. It's not anything goes at all. Not at all. It's it's very you are every decision I take affects at least 60 other people all the time. So that's important to remember.

Last day of summer, last day of summer and river is calling. So I am closing this session now. Uh we will have another session in the afternoon once we return from the river to continue this conversation with new impulses. Uh thank you very much uh Matias for being here for your talk. Thanks a lot. And it's it's a great inspiration I think for us to to see that what we intend to do can be viable long term and uh yeah >> it will be very different in your case

but it might have some similarities when we look back at it one day. >> Yes. Thank you. [applause] I leave these books. This uh this one's written by Johannes post as one of the founders post collapse society. Uh he wrote it 14 years ago. It's uh amazingly timely. It's uh a lot of things projected in there happening right now. Um yeah, enjoy.