The Speculation Age: When Everything Becomes Tradable

Transcript

All right. So, we are conspicuously missing a moderator, which I believe Jordi is on his way. So, I'm going to kick off the conversation. So, Rob Haddock at Dragonfly here, and we're talking about like the speculation age, which I think it's very clear right now that we're in sort of a moment in time. Alex and I were talking backstage about how a lot of the trading outside of the US, especially in Asia, is actually driven by people who are older. So, in Korea, Japan, a lot of parts of Asia, it's actually not necessarily a Gen Z or a Zoomer thing that's happening at the moment, where in the US, it's very much a kind of Zoomer and millennial-driven market right now.

So, with that, I want to talk a little bit about what happens in the future as everything becomes tradable. Johan, maybe you can kick us off uh and talk a little bit about what is or what does it mean for everything to become tradable? What do you think are the next markets that will be tradable? >> Yeah, that's a that's a big question. I think, you know, we were in Korea last weekend, I saw exactly what you were describing. A lot of the audience was actually taking notes, trying to really get all the information that we're talking about and making sure that they can get all the alpha to to be able to trade. And so, that's very interesting.

It's a bit different from some of the other markets that we are going to but overall, what we we've been excited about is that a lot of these people are excited about tokenized assets because for them it's easier to access, it's easier to move. They can create wallets very simply for any type of assets and segregate the asset or use them as collateral or cross margin for spot. So, all of these tokenized tokenized discussion are really changing the way that people are trading. The question now is like why are all our stock tokens available just for US stocks and ETF? I think that tokenization can work for anything. It used to work for stablecoin. Um and that was really the first example. And now, oh, we have a moderator.

>> [laughter] >> Let's go. >> Um and now we think we can expand to different exchanges so that we can give access to everyone to more exchanges across the world. If I ask you tomorrow, how do you buy a stock on the Singaporean exchange? You know, most people don't know how to do that or they want to pay a lot of fees. So, we think we can change that with tokenization. And then why stop just at stocks, you know, private equity, real estates, [snorts] all of this become a lot more easy to trade and not just for the human, but also for your AI agent. >> Hi everybody. Uh sorry I'm a little bit late. I'm glad you guys started without me.

So, I'm uh excited to get all three perspectives. We have a professional investor. We have a, you know, operator of one of the most important businesses and a founder and thinker that I love a lot, uh Alex. So, I don't know if you guys have talked a little bit about any introductions yet or where am I? >> We did introductions and we were talking about what what happens or what are the most liquid markets, what's becoming tradeable next. >> I mean, everything's already tradeable. Uh I feel like oh, do we have enough things tradeable or are there do we need more? >> I think we're going to get a per pot like a, you know, I I went down to the Bahamas to one of these CBDC conferences and it's very, very different than what you might think. You know, European uh markets are viewing stablecoins as a

threat. They view uh Visa and Mastercard as potentially encroaching on European financial sovereignty. And so, I think there's a really surprising world in crypto where we haven't really seen scaled FX swaps uh or large-scale tokenization of fixed-income instruments. And if you look at Europe and you look at the rest of the world, uh the debt markets are much more liquid there and actually tokenization if you like like do the math on the cost savings per trade. Equities are a very, very efficient market, right? Like ever since the uh late '90s, you've had just very, very tight bid off bid offer spreads, whereas um some of the more esoteric assets like, you know, securitized credit card debt or uh even corporate financial

receivables, I think are are going to come on chain and probably due to the launch of CBDCs in the next 2 years. I think that's probably something people are thinking less about. >> Yeah, I think it's honestly like like cuz the other point, too, is so we have this rise of prediction markets, right? And like part of the story around prediction markets has been that you're able to create a market for everything. You're able to get much more exposure, much more direct exposure to whether it's not just an equity, but, you know, actual H100 deliveries, right? Or you're able to get much more direct exposure to hedging out certain types of weather risk, etc. And we're a little bit in the early stages of that. I mean, obviously, um you know, from a Robinhood perspective, now uh prediction markets last quarter were a bigger market than

than crypto in terms of revenue. And but it is still very much sort of, you know, kind of these core use cases of sports and then, you know, politics. But we're starting to see in at least in the um the conversations I'm having, the early days of that longer tail type of insurance market and hedging use cases, etc. come as well. And so, when you're saying like, "Okay, well, is everything uh tradeable today?" I actually don't think that's yet true. There's a long, long tail of exposure that people don't yet have. Uh and I >> let's differentiate between two things. So, you have I mean, Robinhood will obviously serve their customer in whatever, you know, thing they want.

You'll just design a great version of of that and try to give it to them. But you have, you know, investing and investing is sometimes different than speculation. And specifically, the type of assets that you invest in are going to be things where you have ownership, equity. They're not zero-sum games. While derivatives, like a prediction market, it's a yes, no, you know, binary outcome. Someone's going to win the other side's money and someone's going to charge a fee in the middle, which is a very different sort of like PvP than, you know, are we all investing in >> There's a natural long and a natural short, right? Like it's PvP if it's, you know, whatever, like it's a sports game, right? It's not PvP if there's like a natural hedger, right? So, if you look at futures contracts today, something like 25 to 33% of futures contracts

actually survive. The vast majority of futures get launched and die very, very quickly. They never have any any, uh, you know, volume, no no interest whatsoever, even though people put a lot of work into trying to go and market them. And the when they do survive, it's almost always cuz there's a natural hedger. There's a someone who's naturally short. >> seeing like, uh, the non-natural trade markets die out, but you mentioned sports betting. Obviously, that's been like, you know, very sustainable for a very long time and I don't really think there's necessarily, well, I guess you could say that the entertainment value of having a bet on during the sports is is a natural hedge.

>> But there's also there's also and and I don't want to I'm sure that uh, these guys have points too, but there aren't there's a entertainment value. Like there's a reason that people go to, you know, Vegas still or or whatever and there's a lot of entertainment value on the social aspect of how you engage with sports markets in, uh, you know, with your friends and, you know, when you're watching NFL Sunday, etc. Uh, but there also are actual like, uh, reasons for hedging sports outcomes, right? So, there was a trade not highly publicized, but where an e-commerce company during the World Cup wanted to pre-buy a bunch of inventory for a potential winner of that World Cup and they needed to essentially hedge >> like, but it sounds, I mean, I I don't know if you guys think I mean, it sounds like such a small percentage of the the

sports betting volumes maybe natural. Do you guys think about is this something we're offering that is like a natural market or is this just like a game that people can sort of bet on and it's more like uh they're just gambling. Do you differentiate? >> No, for for us we see it as a market. I think uh there is a sports part, but there is also thousand of different contracts that we we are offering. Uh we see people being able to hedge a position in way different ways. So, for example, you know, 2 weeks ago there was a rate change for for credit. Um you can be a really good trader and pick the exact right stocks or the exact right options to know what's going to happen after the the rate change or you can use one of these contracts and hedge your entire

portfolio. So, I I think that's what we want to give um access to and I think that's why we think it's really important to have that on on your account. And uh sport investing or sports uh contracts, I think for us it's a it's a way different problem where, you know, we want to make sure that we can offer what people are also looking for. And the reality is that people want to do a lot of things with their assets including being able to invest in prediction markets. >> I mean, Robinhood has done an incredible job by the way even in crypto uh great execution. But I know you guys are a public company, you have your shareholders, you have to maximize revenue, you have to get, you know, the best product, the best fees that you can maximize. I want to bring in uh Alex a little bit because, you

know, you've been a great social commentator about how AI and how like all these sort of assets are changing. Short-form content is something we've spoken about is, you know, just this inevitable hook that everyone is I mean, I'm I'm I'm I'm like impressed that not everyone is looking at their phone. Like some people have the attention span to actually like listen to a panel, but that's quite rare, right? Like so, if you're looking at this like speculation age and you're thinking about are we going too far as a society where people are, you know, you got Kylie Jenner on Instagram advertising sports betting and is this going too far?

>> I think we're I think Robinhood is actually the the company that pioneered turning investing into e-commerce. You know, it it turned it into an a checkout similar to an Amazon product. And if you think about it that way, we're very early in terms of if you look at e-commerce and just, you know, look at Chinese social media for example, there are people who are making short-term videos selling toothbrushes and all kinds of, you know, different outfits. I think if you imagine that with assets, uh you know, uh influencer selling 15 different perpetual swap products or prediction market products, we haven't even scratched the surface in terms of the

the user flow of e-commerce going into trading. Only Robinhood is really like touching that. And so, do I think it's it's late? No, I don't think so. I think I've I've spoken extensively about how we want a lot of liquidity in uh stablecoin backed perpetual swap and speculative markets as a function of wanting liquid capital markets in a heavily indebted society. And so, the government's got the scent and is saying we want to get to $4 trillion stablecoin supply. It's like, how do you get to $4 trillion stable supply without a massive surge in in speculative interests uh from here? So, I think I think the answer is we're we're pretty early

innings. >> I think there's another point. Sorry if I cut you, but um if you think about the evolution of people owning equity, um I'm going to talk about the US because that's that's where I have numbers, but back when Robinhood got just got launched in 2013-2015, the amount of American that own equity was in the 13%. Very small number, right? Um now we're back in 2026, the the number is about 60%. Uh we also now have the Invest in America account or Trump Trump account for every new child we're going to give $1,000 from the government that's going to be invested in the market. Novice people are going to be turned into investor right away when they're born.

And that's I think the the part that is really exciting. So, maybe you have some customers are starting their financial journey by trading a meme coin or trading a market on predictions. But at the end of the day, it turns into their brain like the interest for financial outcomes and they start learning about it. They start following education content and then slowly they start opening up retirement accounts and continue to invest in their journey. And I think that's something that we should do at a global level. The the US is actually the the population with the most activity on the market. Uh if you think about LatAm or countries in Europe like a very small number investing in the market and that's hurting their economy and it's

also preventing the people to think about their retirement and the and their financial journey. >> I mean, of course the US is a very unique country in the fact that they have the US dollar and in so far as that is the reserve currency and the financial market of the US is really kind of what's being exported, it just becomes a natural Ponzi where the stock market is equated with winning presidencies and you have to just, you know, always support that. So, the fact that you guys have allowed broader access obviously is is, you know, just democratizing the benefit of this like natural Ponzi of the stock market in the US, right? Is it kind of unique for the US that they have this ability?

>> Well, I I I don't agree. You know, if you think about the EU, I'm French, you can hear with the accent. So, retirement is a huge issue, right? And the the market is made in a way that it's very difficult for you to invest in the CAC 40, right? Um and the the issue is that the population just think like it's fine. I have retirement coming as soon as I get 64 or whatever the the age is. But because we don't have financial education, because we don't have all of this when we are young, we just wait and we think that everything is going to be okay and you turn out at 64 and you realize you don't have enough. What we need is to change a paradigm. You need to start thinking as soon as you get to adult age to start investing and to

start building your your wealth. >> No, I agree with you and I and I do see how like even the the silly meme coins like a you know, you're buying a dog coin, it is often the introduction to a lot of people in crypto. I don't know how many people here first, you know, maybe came in through something silly and then eventually realized like oh, there's this all the more sophisticated stuff and you start taking steps in and then you kind of understand that you know, there's better assets and you and you get into those. So, I agree with that. Um let's take a bit of a more crypto specific turn. I want to ask Rob you know, when you look at the inevitability of the amount of speculation, you know, whether we like it or not, it's continuing to grow. More and more people are being brought into

betting on different things and thinking about it more than you know, ever before. From an investor standpoint, where do you see that kind of being captured the most and what kind of business is obviously prediction markets are, you know, have have done extremely well. What are you looking at for new investments and for existing investments? >> I think for us, there's what what we've seen you so you talked about meme coins, right? And there's been these like sort of meme coin cycles, right? And you looked at the meme coin cycle that happened, you know, call it, you know, whatever a couple of years ago and now it's sort of at the top. We there's a lot of excitement about meme coins. Um Phantom raised a $3 valuation round like literally on the fact that they were doing so much revenue based on swaps, right?

A lot of people lost money. There was a kind of a flush out of the market, you know, we didn't have meme coins that kind of very little trading for a little bit and then we've kind of seen that same cycle happen over and over again. And often the meme coin cycle sort of um predates or precedes like what is actual like a cycle and like all other alts and even Bitcoin. Although Bitcoin's getting a little a little less correlated. But it continues to be kind of a little bit of a lower, you know, sort of a lower top. Like it never quite hits the euphoria has a couple years ago. And that's because the vast majority people are are losing money, right? And so when I think about, okay, well, what do I want to invest in?

Why like what is the durable business that exists? It needs to be able to bring that attention and that speculation to also have money that is productive over time. And how do we get that money to be productive? How do we get the experience with our application to be productive? This is something that Robinhood has done very well because, you know, in the early days of Robinhood, you mean we all know this, there was so much concern with the regulators in the US around gamification of trading. And is gamification of trading bad? Are people losing too much money? And you know, what is this Have we gone too far as you asked earlier. Right? And now they've turned into like, okay, well, what are these other products we can provide to help people's financial lives. And so that's also what we think through when

we are, you know, investing in companies. And you know, for instance, you know, we're a very large investor in Polymarket and a lot of the concern around Polymarket recently has been that these prediction markets are all sports, right? But if you if you look at uh users who are using it, 98% of site visits are not traders. It's people who are actually taking real information from price discovery of a bunch of different markets. Right? You're starting to and you're starting to see this kind of swallow up of other types of markets start to pick up as well. And I think that sort of value that is being provided is what is we look for when we think about, okay, well, how can you speculation for a durable long-term product?

>> Alex, you recently put out some cartoon videos where you're playing yourself. There's a cartoon version of you and in this video that I watched correct me if I'm wrong, but the story line is that you're this like super trader and you go teach some young kid how to make a bunch of money. What exactly is the ethos of what you're trying to put together there? >> The question with with online content is always what drives transaction and interest in markets and uh I used to work at an e-commerce company and and one of the number one lessons was you never should be arrogant enough to judge what is going to activate people. And so there's a particular trader TJR, he's a guy in

Puerto Rico who just goes constantly mega viral on TikTok. They just post videos of him teaching young traders what to do. So I thought, okay, I'm going to apply this e-commerce mindset and just literally carbon copy his video and and obviously did well um cuz that's how the world works. Um but I think the the interesting maybe more uh philosophical thing is that there are a lot of assets. For example, you know, with with Muse it shops on Shopify, right? Because Amazon blocked it, but also agents don't really care uh what they're what they're buying. And so if you go on Muse and go shopping, it'll buy you things that you would have never thought to buy before. And so I think if we apply the e-commerce to investing

analog, uh one of the core competencies of crypto founders or people running protocols is like how do I create content that activates people into a wide array of different assets and and product heights that the same way that we would approach making good e-commerce pages. I think that will be um and also how do we make sure that those pages interact not only with users, but the agents that users are shopping with, right? Cuz like if someone is discovering an asset on Muse, um you know, I did an analysis for example, Cathie Wood is very very appealing to a lot of AI agents far more so than Brad Garlinghouse. And it's it's not to say that Brad Garlinghouse's pitch is bad, it's just that agents

don't like his pitch as much as they like Cathie Wood's pitch. So, so there's sort of like a study that needs to happen, I think, of how to activate investors in this new market. >> Interesting. Um Yeah, I guess let's go a little bit into agents, and obviously AI is transforming every economy, including speculation in crypto. And Uh Robinhood has been quite early. I know that you guys at your event in London some months ago were announcing that you're going to have agents, and now you already have a ton of them already trading. How are users using it? Like, what are you learning from this like first data that you're seeing internally?

>> Yeah, I think it's a combination. We We have two platform. We have one MCP that you can connect your agent to. Uh you know, you set up your own cloud or or your open cloud, and you can uh trade crypto, equities, options. Uh we see a lot of people actually doing interesting strategies. Um long short, for example, is one that we're seeing a bit everywhere. Uh people doing corridors to be able to lock their capital gain uh until it hit like the long term. Um and then we just launched last week also our agentic trading within the app. So, um everything is running on our infrastructure. You don't have to set up your Mac Studio with open cloud on it.

Like, we do that for you. You select your model. You select the um apps information that you want to to have. So, for crypto, it would be Token Terminal. Um and you can run whatever strategy you want. I think what we're seeing >> Are people coming up with their own strategies, or is are they looking for recommendations from the agent? What are they doing? >> I think that it's more about having this like superpower [snorts] that is next to you and helping you make the right decision. Um so, you know, for example, uh a thing that we see a ton is people saying trying to to sell one of their holding, and instead of just selling whatever in a FIFO order, they will use a specific tax lot um to optimize again their their taxes or if you want to buy options, um you

know, sometimes the the option ladder is pretty complicated and enduring sometimes because there is so many strike price and it's changing completely to all the time. And so the agents can can help you there. Um so right now we're seeing a lot of that. Um what we launched last week is is just brand new so I I we don't have data there but I I think we will start to see more and more uh sophistication in what the the customers are doing and basically it's going to level the playing field between the um hedge fund that used to have a room full of analysts that were looking like all the news and knowing exactly what to do because they they've studied this and the more basic retail investor. Now you're going to have the basic retail investor with like this superpower to really be at the same level.

>> I mean it seems like as the technology gets better, more and more people will be relying on an agent to help them navigate their you know, their financial positions. Uh have you guys started to invest in this? At Dragonfly area, you kind of expecting that the existing companies will be the ones to build it within? >> Yes, it's a topic of conversation and and something I'm I'm interested in. Um I'm actually to Johan's point of like all this was like democratizing like you know, hedge funds versus personal traders. I think that's probably wrong to be honest. Like because what what's actually happening there is then there's a differentiation around CAPEX essentially, right? The what has happened in institutional trading is it's just become a money and

CAPEX game, right? Like more money you have, the more compute you have, the more data you have, the more just analysts that you have but not analysts but our actual like think computers crunching numbers, the better you are in markets, right? Like you know this as I mean a market maker. And the same thing is going to be true when markets already the majority of prediction market volume is actually done by like agents essentially bots. It's not um and this is coming true more and more in other markets. I think I'm pretty bearish on the idea that like people like people are already asking in chat GBT or Claude or Muse or Instinct like what should I be investing in and they're you know potentially bringing

their own Hermes or whatever to the MCP connectors. And I'm pretty bearish on these like general purpose like LLM agents being able to go and do anything particularly interesting. People like that they they like the the thought process of like thinking that it is you know better for them and that they have more insight. I'm a lot more bullish on the idea of having a agent having context about me and about data and about my tax lots and about the you know my risk profile and everything that I do in my life and being inside of a walled garden of my financial activity.

>> I mean I think I think that makes a lot of sense because if alpha is alpha and you can just all get it on the same chat GBT model then obviously it's going to disappear immediately. It's not going to exist. So what you're making the very good point is you know the customization on your own situation, risk preferences and you know financial conditions is really where you're getting a lot of value add. And that kind of product though like do you see that financial assistant being built by the frontier labs, by like the Robin Hoods, maybe like some independent you know new startups? Like who who do you think ultimately is going to go for that?

>> it is going to be like a vertically stacked like you know company that has understanding of your entire financial life. So I think like maybe potentially a net new neo bank that is both the bank and the invest account and you know maybe my savings account, my IRA, whatever that understands my entire life. They're going to be able to train that and I'm with my you know back and forth with that agent going to be able to train on the things that I need in the way that I want to invest better. And then if I can bring in net new data into that that it that'll be better. Right? And so I mean sure you saw on Robin announcement, one of the things And of course, everybody can pay for it, but one of the things that they announced was you can pay for different

types of data to put into your agentic trading trading experience. And I think that sort of differentiation within a specific application, specific walled garden, is going to be much more interesting than anything that, you know, that's general purpose. >> I mean, I guess like everyone's trying to build this financial super app, and I know Twitter and Elon's got his, you know, attempts to start building and Robinhood has their existing distribution that they can keep stacking on top of, and I guess ultimately, we'll see the Frontier Labs already trying to, you know, see how far they can get into that. So, curious to see what it looks like in 3 years. We'll start to have more winners cleared up by then. Uh, we have a 5-minute I want to talk about some of maybe like issues with uh, speculating

to the extent that it's happening. And even more, I think we've already had a lot of US uh, government issues with military people betting on prediction markets on, you know, insider information that they have. And of course, insider information is something that we're accustomed to in traditional finance. You go to jail if, you know, you're SAC Capital and doing some insider stuff. But prediction markets are this weird thing where Shane will just say like, "Yeah, that's the product." Like, we want insiders to reveal information to all the 98% of users that are coming on board. But there seems to be, you know, a lot of issues sometimes when an an actual insider does do something. I mean, you think about this stuff uh, broadly. What

do you think is really like going to end up being the case? Are we going to just end up creating so many financial incentives that people are going to end up in jail? >> Probably less likely. I think um, actually the rise of hyperliquid on-chain stocks, um, that was always the big question. It's like, if we have pseudonymous accounts trading perps on stocks, which the absolute most extreme uh uh market for regulatory focus, and I think the Trump administration has been very uh friendly in that regard. Um in terms of inside information leaking into prediction markets, yeah, I I think that's almost certainly true. Um the question is who's the who's the

counterparty who gets hurt in a zero-sum contract. Um >> It It is a good question. I don't think everyone's like fully thought about it, and anyone uh if it has any thought, but the one thing that kind of looked really odd to me was when I think it was um Coinbase CEO Brian Armstrong went on their earnings call, and there was a market on which words he would say. So, he didn't say the words. He did the normal earnings call, and then at the end he just decided to I don't know if it was sort of like a like a joke. He just read all the words one by one. They were just gibberish words. He just read them all. Just to make the prediction market go in that favor, and obviously it is zero-sum. So, some guy was very happy, and some guy was probably very upset at that time.

But, is that like is that normal? Like are we just going into this world where reality is affecting the bed, and then we're just sort of in this meta? >> I mean, very clearly like the CFTC and the SEC have very clear rules around uh insider trading, right? What type of information you can trade on, what type of markets are manipulable, how many that you should think about, and what what type of information is okay for a counterparty to possess and still be inside that market, right? Um it's Insider trading is always caught after the fact, right? So, there's like these headlines which are like, "Okay, so somebody insider traded this market." If that happens in equities, you don't get the headlines because it does happen all

the time, and then people get caught, and then they go to jail, and they get fined, etc. It's become sort of this weird thing with prediction markets where people keep writing these headlines as if this is like a thing that doesn't exist in every single market because people are getting caught, right? And that's a good thing. Now, the question around, okay, well, is there people with asymmetric information who should be in these markets and are they more informed than somebody else and does that have value? Very clearly, yes. In in every market there's asymmetric information because there are people who are able to buy satellite imagery of what's going on in certain places. There are people who are able to buy credit card information.

>> there's asymmetric information like, you know, you just get like a god mode to see, but then there's also like you're creating the outcome. Like that's another level above where forget the information that exists in the world and having like view of it, you're you're the one making that outcome happen. >> I mean, you there's not on prediction markets neither of them I don't know about all the prediction markets, but neither Polymarket or Kalshi allow for any person to create a market. Like they there are markets teams that review these contracts and they're the ones that you can propose, but then they're the ones that decide to put them. So, it's not as if like you could go and say, hey, I'm going to make a mention market about what I'm going to say on stage at you know, at Token 2049.

>> And I think to to Rob's point, I think the markets will do its thing and it will regulate itself. If you go on a platform and every time you lose all your money because there is inside information against you, you will stop going on the platform. So, on our side for example, we make sure that mention markets are not allowed on on Robinhood. It's something that we think is too easy to manipulate. When you sign up for the platform, we ask you a bunch of questions to know what is your field of employment and if your field is the government and regulation, maybe you cannot you know, place a trade on a prediction market around this.

>> Okay, so you're saying like people will lose their money too many times that this kind of situation they'll stop. Yeah. >> And and the platform like Polymarket and and Kalshi and Robinhood and other are going to regulate this type of of contracts because it's going to be vital for them. >> Yeah, that's that's fair. Um okay, last minute I want to get a quick yes, no, maybe one sentence. One of the things that, you know, I I I've heard debated is are we going to have financial trading celebrities like uh obviously, you know, we've had uh we have them. Is this going to be like a big thing? Like are we going to have obviously we we've had the CNBC guys and we've had, you know, some people uh blow up in spectacular ways, but do you think

the financial celebrity like this KOL concept becoming mainstream and and bigger and directing people's trades is this inevitable or is this sort of not how people are going to are going to make decisions? >> I think it's in between. I think you will have some of them and and also I think it's a good thing that you have more and more visibility into finance. I'm not sure that it's how people will do all their trades. I think AI is probably going to be the the better uh vision there. >> I hope so. But Rob, you think it's already inevitable like >> It's already happening. It It's not going to be for everybody. It's not going to be mass market, but it's like very clear that there are specific people I mean just look at the rise of FOMO. Very specifically people want to be able to look at somebody uh and say

that person is somebody I want to follow and I want to look at their trades. >> I guess Alex, you >> Clearly yes, right? If you have Kylie Jenner selling a billion dollars of lip gloss, you're going to have the equivalent in stock. >> Okay. Well, thanks everybody. It was great.