SotN#3 GROWING (The Flippening is Back, India Banning China, DEXs going parabolic)

Transcript

all right welcome to another edition the third edition of state of the nation i've got uh myself ryan sean adams and we've got david hoffman and we're here to talk about the state of the bankless nation today david how are you doing i'm doing really good ryan uh lots of things are moving around in the bankless nation and i'm really excited to peel back the layers and get into it with you well i can't wait to ask you my starting question but before we do for those of you who are new to state of the nation we do this every tuesday so every tuesday sometime mid morning or afternoon depending on your time zone we will release this on youtube so make sure you subscribe we'll also release a podcast version of this on our podcast

stream on wednesdays but you get it on youtube a day earlier if you're subscribed and tuning in this is uh where we talk about big picture stuff and we relate the events in the news to what is happening in the bankless nation and the first question i always ask david on these is what i'm about to ask him david what is the state of the nation right now sir the state of the nation is growing so we we had this bullish period and then we had this churning period those were the last two states of the nation and now things are settling and things are really developing uh and so we're seeing a lot of these applications come into maturity uh the churning state of the nation last week was all about uh

learning how these d5 apps and and users of these defy apps would come to grow accustomed to this new paradigm that we are in with the defy tokens as well as the surge of automated market makers and now that we have absorbed these new things we are now maturing with them and they are developing and growing and we are all doing that alongside the bankless nation i like that word growing uh it also implies sort of that we've moved from maybe a period of infancy to adolescence and are we are we in puberty right now david because um you know not everything is going smoothly we are growing but there's sort of an awkward phase in some in some ways too yeah the the puberty was the real word

that we wanted to say but that was kind of kind of kind of an awkward word but yeah really when we pull back the layers we are talking about going through banklessness the bankless nation is going through puberty right like we're seeing a lot of good strides and we're seeing a lot of voice cracks and hiccups and kind of kind of our feet are really big and we're not used to it uh stuff like that yeah this the smell of axe body spray you know that kind of thing all right so let's talk about three things today uh we want to talk about the flipping we want to talk about india banning tick tock and really what they're doing is banning china and how that relates to crypto and we're going to talk about the insane growth that's your word for stay the nation of dexes

today and relate that into concepts let's first start talking about the flipping david uh when i say the word flipping what comes to mind for you what are we talking about there i think the most simple answer is the market cap of ethereum flips the market cap of bitcoin but there are a bunch of other metrics that we could uh go into and and each one represents its own flipping but the real point the real uh point of contention is the flipping between the market cap of bitcoin and ethereum in my mind okay so that was a meme that was like popular in 2017 bitcoiners hated it uh aetherians loved it uh i remember in 2017 ether the market cap of ether got within striking distance of the market

cap of bitcoin for the first time is like it was like 70 ish of the market cap of bitcoin um and then bitcoin took off and ethereum really either really never recovered and the meme of the flipping died uh pretty much or faded out if you will even there was a website called flipping watch which i remember from back in that time uh it's no longer maintained so that tells you that the meme has died it's not updated it's not even online it's no longer maintained but uh there is a new flipping um there's a new flipping dashboard that just came to my attention somebody somebody built this uh and sent it out i think that the meme might be resurrected it's probably a bit

early right now but in the next bull cycle i anticipate in ethereum bulls to be resurrecting this meme is there is there anything to it what i've got on my screen is actually uh the dashboard that i was talking about with some flipping metrics in addition to market cap do you think it's possible that we will see a flipping of market cap and what about these other metrics yeah i absolutely think it's it's possible and i think the more and more bitcoin that comes to ethereum just makes it more and more likely uh and and there are so there are eight metrics here we have like market cap transaction count trading volume node count active addresses um transaction volume transaction fees google search interest

like i said at the beginning of this the real metric is market cap right all of these other metrics including things like google search interest which aren't even something that's like a metric on chain they're just meant to illustrate uh perhaps mind share or and then the transaction volume is is supposed to illustrate like currency trading volume share but really what we're going for is like market cap right that is the real flipping metric all of these matrix sorry that's looking pretty weak it's looking pretty weak like 15 so it's the worst one and it's the worst one you're right so right now ethereum is kind of like ether is the dark horse here because there was a time where seventy percent of bitcoin's market cap and now it's uh on the flipping metrics website it's

only 15 of market cap and all these other metrics right um especially things like active addresses and transaction volumes and transaction fees are supportive of the thesis that one day ethereum will flip in bitcoin um and so these things are supposed to support the concept that like that 15 market cap that ether is of bitcoin is really low right yeah exactly and i i think a lot of these uh metrics are about the usage of the network right so on transaction count which is interesting is uh ethereum today gets more transactions on a daily basis than bitcoin so that's already flippant um the other thing that's already flipping is the total transaction fees

uh that's been we talked about that in the last day of the nation but that's been true actually for the past three weeks that uh ether ethereum block space is more valuable right now than bitcoin block space so it's bringing in more transaction fees on a daily basis that's been true for the last three weeks this might be the longest running period that that has actually been true ever so like those are two flipping metrics that have that have uh hit the the check box um there are a couple of other interesting ones um active addresses is an interesting one that's been on the rise i think in the ethereum network it's the highest it's been since uh since something like you know 2018.

uh you have to asterisk that one because plus token is spinning up a bunch of just trash addresses trying to obfuscate their eth that they that they uh took in their ponzi scheme so like they are inflating that number a little bit but regardless it's been moving up and up and up for for the last two years yep yep and that's at 56 but what's interesting are some of these low ones like google search interest is only 10 of bitcoins google search interest so uh bitcoin just has massive mind share compared to ether like even when when people ask you about like crypto um you know when people ask me they ask like oh are you into bitcoin like you know they don't even say crypto they

they very rarely say ether or ethereum uh and it just has captured more mind share and i think that reflects the search uh google search interest too right yeah yeah and i've always been skeptical about google search interest with ethereum right because ethereum is not just one thing right so like are they counting make or dao are they counting auger are they counting like any all of these ethereum apps like because i think those also count as like ethereum google search interest and i'm guessing that this is just comparing raw bitcoin to raw ethereum which only paints so much of a picture yeah it really does even when you look at the transaction volume figure so transaction volume that means the amount of value that has been sent

is actually comparing transaction volume of bitcoin to transaction volume of eth but it doesn't it's not comparing ether plus all of the erc20 tokens on top of ethereum versus bitcoin if you looked at just that metric if you added tether and everything else um this says right here that ethereum would be way above bitcoin in terms of the transaction volume because of all of the eth and all of the erc20s and the cumulative value exceeds the the value of bitcoin right now so that's interesting yeah so in some ways we are comparing like two different networks one is a is a mono asset network which is bitcoin the other is a poly asset network so

it's not exactly comparing apples to apples but yeah as i like to say both are fruits so you can't compare a little bit yeah so you know what's also interesting is uh actually the guy behind this was the guy behind the bitcoin rainbow price chart as well so um this is somebody who's very into into bitcoin uh and uh you know he just recently came out with uh the ethereum flipping index so um i don't know if that's indicative of a mind share flipping too but it does seem like there's a shift from maximalism to more interest in the ethereum space and we touched on that a little bit last time too

yeah absolutely uh and ethereum the eth price chart does follow some sort of like logarithmic curve it doesn't look like bitcoin's logarithmic growth chart because if the ether skyrocketed into its market cap way faster than bitcoin did at its genesis um but i'd like to see what happens when you do the rainbow price right for ether too yeah i think i know far off yeah i i hope somebody comes up with that and i'm actually surprised we haven't seen that because um this is a i mean this is just a beautiful chart right this um bitcoin price chart right like so um i mean this what this is showing is that that bitcoin historically if it's following the rainbow curve is in the undervalued territory uh historically it

would be a tremendous buy as of today it's uh basically almost basically a fire sale but it's certainly a buy according to this chart which is not financial advice no none of this is financial advice guys absolutely all right so let's talk about uh something else too so something that peaked my interest david was that um it seemed like india was you know banned a whole list of of apps uh recently um particularly chinese apps this is a list of all of them so tick tock is the number number one i'm sure like a bunch of you know folks probably use that and i've heard of that um also things like let's see wechat which is a uh chinese messenger app what

do you think that's all about why is india doing this well i think the the first thing that this illustrates for me is like how a lot of these very just just you know normal apps are uh actually tools of the state and and specifically tools of china right so like tick tock is is i think the biggest one that the the biggest culprit of this is like yeah it's a cool app and it does it's a social media app and that allows people to have fun on it but like it's actually the way that china uses it is a way to see see what's up see what's going on guess you're into your data get data on you and india is having none of it right india is like no you don't get to uh get data about our people better better than we are for

sure uh and so it's basically india claiming self-sovereignty over china right so china is a nation-state it's got very defined borders uh and it doesn't it it's not colonial right it's not like reaching out to the rest of the world and trying to claim it like britain was in the 16 17 1800s but it's doing that through technology right like 90 of the world's chips are made in china which is really scary to me and like a lot of these apps that everyone around the world use is developed in china and china is spreading its influence through these applications so what india is doing when they're banning these apps you're saying like no trying to like get out like we're you are banned from from our app stores of sorts

you you don't get our data it's interesting that you use the word colonialism because some people have called this basically digital colonialism which is kind of expanding the the empire and breaking the self-sovereignty of nation through um through technology digital technology what's interesting to me too is these can let's be fair these consumer apps they're all opt-in right china is not forcing any like anyone from india or the us for that matter at gunpoint to use tick tock we're choosing to use these things like there's 900 million users on on tick tock today and to my knowledge all of those users made a choice to jump into tick tock is that because we just don't care about privacy like we should we don't care enough about data

surveillance um do you think that tide is going to to shift at any point or is just is this basically a tragedy of the commons problem yeah you know china is definitely doing that with that that is their strategy right let's let's make something useful for people so that they they forget about like the whole privacy side of things uh and we're seeing apple start to develop their hardware in ways that are definitely pro privacy pro consumer um so in the new ios software apple has a little flashing icon whenever your camera or microphone is being used either by an active app or in the background and it's very much like an anti-china move either either with intent or not um but but um with regards to like what

china means for the rest of the world like china is the most anti-bankless nation that we can think of right like it is the opposite of the bankless nation like it's the digital nations and that would that i've been describing as bitcoin and ethereum like the antithesis isn't the nation state it is the authoritarian nation states absolutely yeah the banquets the bankless nation and the usa nation or germany or france those can co-mingle and coalesce and work together the bankless nation cannot work with the china the china nation that is that's oil and water it's there's nothing more antithetical to the china nation state and the bankless digital nation and to be clear i think you're talking about the the communist party in china so the ccp rather than the people of china and

it's also could be the case that in you know western uh like democratic formerly republic uh strong protocols for individual sovereignty and liberty that those could collapse into more authoritarian regimes too uh which is why we have to keep our guard up every generation i feel like has to keep their guard up against uh the encroachment of of tyranny that's really what the bankless movement is about is it's about a you know a bill of rights essentially that money should be separated from the state as we transition into this digital era that the state should not get full control of our monetary systems so that despots and tyrants don't control us essentially um i do think that this this news um with with

india sort of banning what they're doing is they're banning china really it's more than banning these particular apps they're banning china but um in a way that's really good news for um credibly neutral crypto blockchain network systems right like ethereum like bitcoin to some degree um there's been talk often about what happens if china creates a blockchain they're working they have a blockchain initiative right now or what about the chinese digital currency right um you know won't that just stomp out all of these public networks like bitcoin and ethereum and i think the answer that is no absolutely not because like so so if you just work out the game theory if india is not willing

to use uh china's tick tock application there's no chance in hell they're going to use china's blockchain there's no chance in hell they're going to use china's uh digital cryptocurrency right think about the surveillance ramifications of that and so what this means is if the nation states are going to use crypto and going to use blockchains they're going to all settle on the one the the systems the small number of systems that none of them control and none of them can co-opt it's uh you have to kind of use the most credibly neutral system that's just how the game theory works out so i think that's super bullish for ethereum and like people aren't realizing that

because of nation state politics essentially you know a national blockchain program cannot work at least outside of the bounds of one particular nation state no that's totally right and at the start of that you said you talked about how like uh bitcoin and ethereum these digital nations are checks on the nation state and there is this theory this attitude that the nation state no matter what even pick your favorite best nation state and it's it the theory is that it might just be moving towards authoritarianism organically that might just be in the incentive of a nation state right including the united states like it might just move more and more authoritarian over time and so like the and and a system like a chinese central bank digital currency or

any central bank digital currency is an authoritarian type of digital currency right and the whole incentive of a nation state is to be extractive right like the reason why india is banning this is because it's saying that no china you cannot extract out of our citizens right out of our citizenry and so any sort of any sort of digital currency that's operated by a central government is going to just increase the government's ability to be extractive of the people that use it which is why it's really important to be using a credibly neutral system because those systems are minimally extractive right they they they hold the point of the system is that there's no one at the center doing any extracting

yeah and i um you know that that brings to mind uh i was reading a statement this morning on the chinese digital currency and electronic payments so this is the the the chinese digital currency it's essentially that's being ruled out now so it's been six years in development it's now starting to be rolled out uh and there was a um a statement in it this is a good in depth we'll include this article in the show notes um if the government that's the chinese government decides to deactivate a wallet or reverse a transaction they can do so with one simple click like how dystopian is that one click and we can eliminate you citizen from the world economic system

you have a problem with our politics our policies our leadership a bureaucrat can click a button and eliminate you from the global economic system that is terrifying especially when we like include the fact that in the long-term future these digital systems are supposed to also be our identity systems not just our our money systems that that sen that centralized power of just removal is even worse right it's like not only is your are your is your economic and financial status gone like you are gone you do not exist and and we saw what happened when like a a centralized regime like in the ussr they would just delete people they would

just you're gone goodbye you never existed and and now we're doing this in a in a point-and-click type fashion well you could even program algorithms to delete people right so i mean you could set up a whole nation-state apparatus where you know robots are deleting people who travel in you know to certain provinces or in in certain ways and they automatically delete the citizen or freeze their accounts or you know steal some of their money take out a fine it's very scary to me and the thing about it is this is the you know we're talking about china and the chinese digital currency but i think that the us and europe and western nations will move in the same direction of becoming like of of incorporating

digital currencies uh into their nation-state protocol essentially they kind of have to want to compete with china right but but but two um it's just more convenient i mean the entire society is moving into the digital realm i mean when's the last time you you paid with with uh cash money with benjamin's or anything right my wallet doesn't even have a spot for cash it's a heart only wallet yeah so is mine because cash is like cumbersome it's uh it's like older generations uh use cash but i um cash is so um is also very important because it is a way to opt out like cash preserves individual privacy and anonymity more than any anything else um

any other form of of currency essentially it's also a bearer asset so when i give you cash you know the transaction is uh totally finalized so if we eliminate you can't uh well you could burn it i guess but like no one does that so india once upon a time did delete cash they just said like all right these denomination of bills are are no longer accepted you have two weeks to turn them into something else and so like there is that weakness there but until then that yeah yeah absolutely and that's fair and this is the reason why um criminals use use cash right um because it's untraceable with with that activity there's also a tremendous downside but there's also a bunch of freedom and i worry that as we transition into this digital currency world

like we lose all of that both in china in an authoritarian regimes but also in western countries like the us like in the u.s it might look like facebook and libra plus the fed and essentially like the fed and the state government uses our technology companies as an apparatus to do the same thing to deactivate a wallet to reverse a transaction to take money from its citizenry it seems inevitable to your point early earlier that nation state governments will move in this direction and to me crypto is the only alternative it's the only way to opt out so once cash is eliminated we will only have two

forms of money we'll have fiat from nation states and we'll have crypto those are the only two options really yep that's it yeah and it is good that like the digital nation currencies exist because they their mere existence uh the ability to opt out of an anti-cash authoritarian society is a is itself a check on that so like even that people that aren't participating in these digital nations they still get the benefit of them because you can't go full authoritarian if something like bitcoin or ethereum exists because then you're just going to hasten the arrival of these technologies totally like so even if even if these systems occupy 10 15 20 market share of the world monetary system that's that's

enough of a check and balance to resist this kind of stuff all right so uh man dark topic but our our our word of the day state of the nation is growth can we talk about growth because defy exchanges these are called decentralized exchanges so people shorten that they call them dexes they are going absolutely parabolic like they're going crazy what's happening here dude well so we we found this very early primitive and we turn it turns out we can it around to really fit our needs in a bunch of different ways and what i'm talking about of course is the automated market maker model and the reason why the a um aum model is

so strong is because it is instead of a being a peer-to-peer exchange it is a peer to contract and so peer to contract is so much more scalable than peer-to-peer because you don't need to operate an order book you don't need any infrastructure you just need a single contract on ethereum and that can scale out to the whole entire world right and so many many many people can all trade with each other by going through this intermediary contract that coordinates everyone but you don't need to have like an order book you don't need to have a matching engine you don't need to have a server which a lot of these other decks tend to do and so the aum uh automated maker am excuse me

automated market maker uh model has just absolutely exploded yeah it's crazy to see this is a a tweet from hayden who was the original creator of the uniswap protocol whom we we've had we talked about on the bankless podcast previously um he he said this is kind of happening behind the scenes everyone's talking about liquidity farming but uniswap's um june volume was greater than all of its 2019 volume combined so one month in one month june we're not even halfway through 2020 it beat uniswap volume beat all of 2019. we're not even done with june we're not even done with june this is actually a tweet from the june 25th

so like where are we going next um is is the question i've got a chart here god this thing's in the way there we go i've got a chart here on um dex metrics and you were talking about like so one form of a dex is an automated market maker you talked about right which is what uniswap is but there are other order book types of dexes but what's interesting here when you look at the first of all that volume is crazy 450 million over seven day volume but when you look at the breakdown 41 of that is uniswap uh and 12 of that is curve so between another amm yes so curve and uniswap are the two amms and then i got eight percent of

balance or two right so that is 60 percent 60 plus percent so a healthy majority almost two-thirds majority of all of the decentralized exchange traffic is from automated market makers um i think that's uh i think that's pretty interesting because that is a new use case that only d5 enables it's kind of a it's kind of the first completely innovative product market fit i think that that i've seen it's something that doesn't exist in traditional finance at all to my knowledge right like if you think about maker um there's loans and collateral that sort of thing exists in traditional finance but these automated market makers money robots as we like to call

them are pretty unique to d5 and they are just growing like crazy and they're dominating everything else out there and importantly the protocol sync thesis predicts this right so automated market makers are like the most dense uh type of decks that is available right so super high utility lots of people want to use it and also when it comes to its scalability and its trustlessness and its permissionlessness it has it all it has the full marks right which means that any automated market maker system because because an automated market system excuse me an an amm is just a application that accepts any token so like anyone can use them as it sees fit and so it really is a

an amm exchange it just reflects the demand of the world around it it doesn't really have any uh impact upon it doesn't do anything else other than reflect the needs and desires of the ethereum ecosystem right and so it just is a good tool for people to use and just because of its simplicity and it's in its maximal utility as an application it's become really really dense and so we're seeing unit swap and curve just gain and gain and gain density in the form of you know monthly weekly daily volumes right that is the metric of density for these amm applications yeah absolutely it's been exciting to see it and yeah everyone knows the rules of the game that they're playing with so each of these automated market makers have a you know specific curve uh and you know

it's all transparent they can't cheat you so these are i think much more economically dense uh protocols than than centralized exchanges we're actually starting to see that so it was blown away last week i saw this um usdc which is the stable coin like the second largest staple coin and tether which is the largest stable coin the trading volume on curve uh exceeded finance over the past 24 hours this was on the 20th so right so finance like mighty binance the largest exchange centralized exchange out there within the vast majority of the market share

um they're being beat beaten by tiny curve like look at curve this is curve right so this is the decentralized protocol um d5 protocol curve back in february this this was their deposits february 10th they had uh eight thousand dollars in liquidity eight thousand dollars and you fast forward this is uh this is around when the comp token launched um fast forward to now they have 50 million in us dollars deposits and curve is specifically they're really good at um exchanging like for like things so stable coins for instance so usdc and a tether would be a perfect exchange for them or like two forms of tokenized bitcoin

on ethereum and they are beating centralized exchanges already and it's only been like four months right right like it's the the growth is absolutely insane like and buying it binance you can kind of compare binance to coinbase and using the protocol sync model right because like coinbase is a lot more restricted uh and it requires kyc and and binance doesn't and finance is more global more scalable doesn't really i care about what country you're from it takes any asset it can think of and so like using the protocol sync thesis finance is denser than coinbase perhaps uh and even even binance like the most the most dense like uh centralized

exchange that the centralized world can cook up is still losing to curve in in a four month time period in a five month time period like well absolutely blown out of the water at least with stable coins um uh but i think all the other assets are not far along yeah it's it's super exciting so you know growth is definitely the theme and like the last thing maybe to mention on this whole trend of decentralized exchange growth is that um it's back to what we've been talking about in the previous state of the nations in our podcast with dan elliser is these defy tokens are essentially going to be rocket fuel on top of this all of us so these defy tokens you're essentially you know

uh what does dan call it time time spacing like you're bringing profit from the future into the present with these things and you're using that to supercharge liquidity and make the future more inevitable essentially so that's what comp is doing it's incentivizing liquidity it's pouring rocket fuel on all of these defy systems and now curve is coming out with their own crv token to further incent liquidity so that was curves growth that we just saw um just given the recent you know b5 token launches of comp and other things it hasn't even launched its own token yet it hasn't even poured its own rocket fuel on top of the rocket fuel that

already exists so there there is scant detail about crv tokens right now but curve did release a pdf about it i believe earlier this week or perhaps it was last week that share some more details we'll include that in the show notes but that's something to um to look at these decentralized protocols particularly defy exchanges starting to incorporate uh their own tokens to further incent liquidity it's just going to be i think a pretty large explosion um yeah and then the explosion that comes after that is using all of those tokens as collateral and in things like make or dao and allowing to mint new die based off of the value of all of these capital asset tokens because for the

first time i think maker dow has a nice wide variety of selection of good assets to choose from which they haven't really had before like bat not really the best token like wbtc fine i'll take it but like now we have these real on it's most importantly on chain like wbtc is not on chain all of these uh all of these comp governance tokens the the curve token the balancer token these are going to be great collateral for make or dow and allow for a lot of new value to be created inside of the ethereum ecosystem yeah they're all crypto native capital assets which is super exciting now that's not to say some of them might be tremendously overvalued but at least we have a value accrual

mechanism and we have a way to uh benchmark the value that uh that that we have and that you know um could be accrued by these tokens which i think is is is pretty unique um well i i sort of think of it as it's it's a bit like in you know let's say it was early it was like 1999 early internet and let's say every time you use the google search engine instead of alta vista google would reward you with google shares that's essentially what these tokens are doing now it could be the case that instead of google google shares you're getting like pets.com shares or some some other stupid.com right because we don't actually know you know what the what the winning criticals are going to be but they are

capital assets that you're getting almost like shares right there's the protocol shares that you're getting in exchange for using the protocols which uh is is pretty interesting um and you know the uh the original internet movement did not have that sort of uh feature it was google was not giving out its shares for you know googling something in their search engine absolutely not and this is i think why i'm so bullish about this particular uh instantiation of uh governance tokens of sorts right because what a share of google is is a governance token and i do hope that these governance tokens start paying dividends pretty quickly

because we've seen these tech companies in the stock market have these tokens these governance tokens over these massive tech companies but the only reason why they're valued is because of the greater full thesis right there's no these tokens these shares of companies don't actually give you anything they like no one's actually actually using them for government they're just shares of a company that aren't paying any dividends and i think that's actually a huge problem in the legacy markets and so i kind of hope these these uh governance tokens on ethereum start paying dividends really quickly because the whole point of these tokens is that they are access to cash flows um i know that wasn't really on our list or topics but i thought i'd bring that up no it's true and they're being valued as if they're going to pay dividends in the

future so if they're not then they're they're way overvalued at this point if they are just governance tokens without any option on future cash flows then i think that the valuation behind all of these things completely breaks down right so it seems like the market is is uh assuming and almost depending at these prices on these tokens becoming full shares essentially that reward through dividends or burn mechanisms and other things we've talked about with dan uh david anything else man i think that's all we that might be all we have time for today i think we're at that time that that was it uh the the bankruptcy nation is growing is developing uh it's not all good there are a bit balancer got hacked

uh they lost a bunch of money uh uh comp tokens got extracted out of the balancer system uh there it's it's it's we're going through the fire we're going through the fire but there's a lot of growth a lot of things happening right now so uh d5 is hitting puberty at the moment yeah nice this is the wild west everyone remember so recent disclaimers guys this is none of this is financial advice keep in mind all of these protocols are risky crypto eth bitcoin all risky investments to to have and to own so be careful out there for sure as far as action items we will include a link to the flipping chart that i sent you in here that we we looked at in the show notes um also uh things to watch we'll we'll include a link to the

information about the crv token on curve and you've got to hit subscribe as well that would be the third action item so subscribe to youtube subscribe to the bankless podcast speaking of the bankless podcast july is going to be hot in terms of podcasts yes david who's coming on the bankless podcast this month we're going to be interviewing chris bernisky on thursday so that episode will be out next monday and then after that who do we have after that we have vitalik coming on uh which is also just going to be absolutely insane um we're going to talk a lot about the article that i'm about to release uh maybe this week maybe next week so stay tuned for that one

and then ryan remind me who we have after that we have ben hunt from um epsilon theory who's one of my favorite writers about um everything that's going on in the capitalist world these days and then also eric voorhees to kind of close out the month so uh it's gonna be awesome on the podcast we are glad that you are with us on the bankless journey this has been state of the nation episode three thanks a lot