The Social Web3 | Protocols for a Digital Society | POAP, Lens Protocol, Disco.XYZ

Transcript

foreign bankless Nation this is an exciting episode it's one of my favorite formats David this is a panel episode we're doing this on the Social Web Web 3.0 are we about to disrupt Facebook that's what I want to know who's going to be on the panel today what are we going to be talking about David yeah there are three different social projects and that's actually going to be the first question I have for our three panelists is what is the Crux that we're actually talking about are we talking about web3 social media are we talking about digital identity identity in the metaverse uh there's something here and I want to unpack what that is so we're bringing uh three fantastic guests from three

fantastic projects uh some of which you will be familiar with we have Evan McMullen out of disco we have Christina beltramini out of lens protocol which is what is being developed by Ave some Superstars over at Ave and then also Isabel Gonzalez from poapp everyone knows poapps uh they are digital memories instantiated as tokens on ethereum but are they more than that and what does that mean in the metaverse so this is the first Crux of the of the topics that we will be unpacking with these three fantastic guests in this episode which I've Loosely titled the Social Web 3. I think panels are perfect because uh when we're starting to explore a new topic on Bank list this is like the fastest way to get something

new in your brain and it's always been sort of since the birth of ethereum a like a possibility a narrative a meme that we could come and actually build something web 3.0 that disrupts a lot of Web 2.0 all of our Legacy social media applications and products the Facebooks and and twitters of the world and I've always been somewhat skeptical on crypto's ability to do that but uh I think I have renewed hope going into 2022 with some of the decentralized identity projects that uh that are spinning up and some of the work that poapp's doing with nfts and the work Ave is doing as well so I think it's time to actually uh explore this narrative a bit deeper and that's what we're going to do

today on this panel guys before we get in one quick announcement from our friends at opolis so opolis provides you health insurance and benefits and payroll if you are a self-sovereign employee if you're trying to get into work for web 3 work for Dows and you don't have health insurance if you don't have a benefits package that's pretty typical how do you get that rather than get it from your corporate job you can get that from opolis they take care of all of that for you David there's a special offer going on as well that's why this is a this is something people should check out immediately what uh what is opolis offering right now and how can folks start exploring what's available yeah in addition to healthcare there's also Payroll Services as well to

make your payment income just very regular and if you get if you sign up with to get your Dow payroll service by opolis you get a thousand work tokens and a thousand Bank tokens out of the bank list down if you get your paycheck paid but to you by opolis by May 1st 2022 so you can sign up with them with a link in the show notes and you can get some tokens for receiving some money from your Dow so uh basically opolis is just a collective infrastructure structure for ensuring stable employment and stable income while you work in the metaverse very cool stuff guys we will get to the panel in just a minute before we do we want to thank the sponsors that made this episode possible when you shop for plane tickets you probably use Kayak

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all right guys we're going to go ahead and get started with the web 3 social panel which we're going to figure out what we're actually talking about right after I introduce our three fantastic sponsors coming up first we've got Evan McMullen who's building the world of digital identity off-chain assets and metaverse reputation at disco.xyz Evan welcome to the panel thank you so much glad to be here we also have Christina beltramini who's building the lens protocol at Ave along with some social media Mafia Superstars that Ave has gotten from the web 2 world lens protocol is a brand new primitive for web3 social media platforms I think Christina welcome to bankless you think we'll we'll get into that later but thanks for having me yeah it sounds like

I'm going to get learned a little bit here on the show and of course last but not least you guys all know poapps we have Isabel Gonzalez Chief Operating Officer at poapp Isabel welcome to bankless thank you so much David happy to be here and excited to talk about whatever it is that we're going to talk about today that's exactly what I want to know first so what are we talking about is this the intersection of social media and crypto are we talking about decentralized identity and and social media platforms leveraging decentralized identity is the Social Web 3 even a thing at all uh Evan I want to throw that questions to you first what are we actually trying to talk about today so public blockchains are not especially expressive right they're appropriate for

data that um that can be shared with everyone in the world and on Earth and in space with an internet connection they're appropriate for data that is immutable and that is always available um but much of the data that pertains to us as people and our human experiences is more organic than that it needs to change and evolve like we do and it needs to contain um you know information that's specific to our experiences that maybe isn't appropriate to share with everyone on Earth and in space and so as we look beyond the chain to fully express ourselves in web 3 we're going to need some more data Primitives we're going to need some more methods of interaction to enable true self-sovereignty over all the rest of our activities not just our financial ones

and my gut take about the web the Social Web 3 is that it's not going to be one protocol like Facebook is but it's going to be a collection of many many protocols and so I want to go to Christina next to hear about uh what is going on over at lens and Ave and what the perspective is on the web 3 social World from from you Christina yeah I think you know the year today is really around you know what is web 3 social media going to be and I don't think it's going to be Integrations with web 2 um I think web 2 is really going to be forced to adapt as quickly as web 3 adapts and so we can't really rely on web 2 uh because they have their business models and their business

models make sense for them all as publicly listed companies and there's a lot of you know misaligned agendas so with the lens protocol and we can get into a little bit more around you know whether it'll be one protocol whether it'll be many different uh Social Web 3 apps but the the whole intention there is you know we need to innovate it ourselves uh in web 3 around this concept of social uh and so lens protocol is you know really put a stake in the ground and saying you know here we are you know we want to build on a protocol level we don't want to compete with one another we want to all work together to build this new uh social media ecosystem uh in web3 I think of it a little bit like web2 has you know they've got the train lines built and

they built the city and right now we're building the train lines for what is going to be you know web3 social and then we'll continue to build the city on top of it but this is really just a first step and and we're super excited about it gosh there are just so many conversations to unpack with what this is going to look like once those rails are actually built uh but I think something that a lot of listeners are familiar with and and Isabelle I just got back from East Denver where people were handing poapps back left and right like I thought I was going to be super cool with my you met David poapp but I collected like 50 of them from other people and it was one of it was like a centerpiece of East Denver is like hey can I have your app I'll give you my PO

app for your Pro app Isabel uh talk to us about poapps and how you see poapp fit into the world of like a social crypto enabled future absolutely David thank you and uh by the way so if Denver was a brilliant time and I'm very glad that you got there you've met me co-ops I don't know how many Co-op team members you've met me pull-ups you've collected uh but those that are rare keeping keep hold of them they might be useful one day um that took a little bit so uh here at Co-op we kind of uh are not so much here to talk about uh social media we think uh more of ourselves as a protocol preserving uh all memories for all living human beings right and uh so that tends to touch on identity as like a form of uh call it decentralized bottom-up identity

building where your identity is basically a uh a cumulative sum of like what you've done over the course of your life right like the experiences that you've had in different people in different places are the things that you've considered special uh things you've achieved uh things that you were a part of meaningfully in some significant way and so uh for us uh it's kind of uh we do see ourselves interfacing along that uh piece of identity social yes to the extent that uh human identity to be inherently like I we care about having an identity because we care about what it represents to other people therefore it's inherently social right but poem I think is something that is more for building up uh that kind of point in time uh decentralized form of

uh well a self-referencing identities right and uh then how you trust that to other people is as simple as sharing your collection with others can we talk a little bit about um you know web 2 here for for a second and I'm curious because um I guess there's a a couple uh ways we could take this but my my first question is this very much with um some of the movements we've seen in crypto say D5 it's been very intentionally the case that that Defy is saying to you like the banking system hey we're gonna come eat your lunch like Defy is going to eat traditional Finance right it'll be slow

it'll gradually be gradual at times but like the ultimate state of Finance is going to be decentralized finance and uh traditional Finance doesn't have a chance okay is the web 3 movement saying the same thing to web 2 is it basically saying Facebook Twitter Tick Tock Instagram your days are numbered we're coming for you uh you're the next Myspace web3 is the next thing or do you see web 3 living alongside web 2 a bit more and building something different I'm curious your take uh Christina from from the aveen side first yeah sure I think you know when you look at defy and it's success

it didn't incubate within investment Banks it didn't incubate in the you know the Baseline Financial system and I think we're going to see the same thing with you know social media in web3 um it's not going to incubate it might there might be some crossover as we look at adopting uh you know all web 2 into web 3 hopefully um in a similar way to we're seeing the Trad fire to D5 transition and it is happening it is happening there is appetite now um to play in this space and I think you know with web 3 social it's going to start you know first in web 3 there might be a place for it with work too but I think ultimately web 3 and I'm biased obviously but I think web3 is is the future because it solves for you

know the 20 years of learnings that we have with web 2 social where things just don't work I feel essentially that you know I'm renting my space on social media Platforms in web 2. I can actually own it uh in web3 and have control and custody very similar to D5 those kind of like similar uh you know principles of defy are actually being brought to web3 social so I think it's kind of no surprise maybe that avi's building this I think it did come as a surprise to a lot of people but when you kind of distill it back down to Basics it's kind of like the underlying principles are very similar um even when you go into composability as well so Evan Christine is saying uh watch out Mark Zuckerberg we're coming

to eat your lunch do you agree with that Mark Zuckerberg should start checking under his bed at night for me Isabella and Christina because we are the boogeyman now we are coming for you Mark and what that means is that you know the the surveillance capitalism ecosystem that has given rise to web 2 social media as Christina noted means that we are renting our social interactions and paying with our privacy for that rent um so you know we when we interact with Instagram Instagram messes with how close we think we are to our friends to incentivize us to buy more things that's not truly a social interaction platform it's a Commerce platform where influence is you know is uh is enabled by our

organic social contacts and what we are going to build together all of us here is a true social experience where our intended interactions with others are indeed the interactions that we hope to have where we can have autonomy and control of our expressions of self and we can you know engage with others and enjoy experiences together without the overseeing intervention and you know enabling force of some random dude in Mountain View Evan I think that's actually a really interesting point for me it's always been uh maybe not always but I think about coexisting right I think the web 2 platforms like they uh have had some utility in the sense of being

entertaining and uh centralization for whatever it's worth uh has managed to get some things done right over the history of humanity uh but inevitably like putting the keys into one person's hands uh you're gonna wind up with uh at some point mislined incentives at some point uh incentives that kind of tilt towards uh making the platform uh less about with the user experience and the people that are trying to enjoy themselves and connect and more about eventually commercialization because uh companies need to make money and that's how it goes uh I think that there is uh like an interesting point to be made about maybe one of two platforms and web three ones uh having just like different fundamental purposes right maybe uh web 2 platforms is where we used to go to um at some level waste time at some level find entertainment maybe web three

platforms is where we go to uh organize to empower ourselves to connect with people on similar missions and to actually kind of Leverage The more interesting and uh valuable parts of what social platforms can be I I have another uh I guess follow-up on that so if if we are trying to build something unique in in web3 and uh you know maybe some of the panel think we're here to eat uh web 2's lunch here how do we bring how do we bring people to web3 how do we entice them how do we convince them as a lot of people out there who who don't really think very much about decentralization or or care about it maybe they don't think a lot about about privacy either is is that enough of a

carrot for them or what do you think the uh the carrots gonna be why are they going to flock to these platforms uh Evan let's start with you what do you think so in order to bring the next billion users to web3 we need to build the metaverse of fun and you know we can't have a lot of fun together right now the only thing I know about you is how much money you have and what you bought recently I need to know what you like to do I need to know who you're friends with I need to know what dreams you have what aptitudes and skill sets you bring to the table so that together we can solve more interesting coordination problems than just spending money in your group chat with a bank account or you know the Dows that we know and love

and so in order to enable the metaverse of fun we need more expressive data that can demonstrate all of these traits about ourselves in a manner that we can own and control and so in order to bring culture to the metaverse we need data Primitives that can express that culture we need the ability to interact with one another you know more than just pushing money in tradable assets you know to to and from one another um and so what I think the most uh the most exciting promise of the the you know web3 ecosystem of of social interactions has nothing to do with the underlying protocol and everything to do with the experiences that we can enable

for people when we reduce the switching costs of trying new activities when we eliminate the need to fill out forms when you discover new apps and want to integrate um I think that the greatest draw for social web free will be the abundance of awesome activities and Adventures that we can do together as a result of our protocols um but not you know because people are drawn to a fetish of cool protocols so you know the Social Web means that we build for the personal experience not just from you know from demonstrating what a protocol is capable of all that sounds very very uh very human it sounds very fun it sounds very experience oriented uh Isabel I'm curious your take on things so I mean poet is doing

something I feel like that um your traditional web 2 companies social media companies uh can't do and don't do which is like this idea of proof of attendance is that a new sort of primitive unlock um I think that to give you like a bit of context I don't know how many people uh at bankless or in this room or uh watching live now I know this uh pull up kind of originally uh was born from this idea of like a what would a decentralized Foursquare look like right and uh the reason uh it kind of goes back to that is um the FourSquare originally was kind of like the checking out that we all knew loved right and that you could go and be mayor of value local Pizza Hut and everything was like Dandy and uh then one day uh they needed to switch business models because that

wasn't working out for them so well and uh basically you know your uh lifetime of achievements uh checking into various places and sending various things all of a sudden just gone right um pull up takes that concept of uh check-ins attendance attestations in general at some level and uh gives people the right to actually own their own proof of attendance right like so now that data actually fundamentally belongs to you and that's what makes the concept so powerful that like all that stuff that uh Evan was talking about with uh the metaverse of fun is something that we're currently witnessing being built out within the co-op ecosystem right there's a these Integrations for uh like the craziest things uh your Google Drive your notion your uh Shopify like uh every imaginable thing that you want to

lock and gate with pull-ups at this point uh I think people have built all that more I think we're seeing more and more flooding every day uh and you know all of it's still uh very much in beta it's uh still very much like I call it the user experience I think is far from being polished enough to compete with uh to really be ready for the mainstream right it's still kind of like all of that crypto ux let's say but uh with that being said um the attendance Primitives is a thing attestation Primitives are a thing right like a proof of doing something proof of uh contributing in some particular way uh one of the things that we're seeing is that like although there's a limit to how rich the poet metadata is uh you can get proofs of uh participating in

auctions and proofs of uh you know founding a community proofs of attending the First Community call proves to be on someone cap table uh and like all of those little things uh at the end of the day it kind of becomes up to individual issuers to unlock certain fun experiences and special things for their collectors and I think that's kind of like the first step towards uh exactly what Evan was talking about right is developing like that ecosystem of uh exciting applications and Adventures that we can all go on together uh so Christina how about you what do you think about um bringing mainstream on and uh you converting the masses to web3 social media yeah I definitely you know the metaverse of fun and we've seen that with nfts right a lot of

reasons why nfts has been such a good onboarding tools is because it is fun um to buy these assets and and to trade them with your friends and pull-up is fun uh and I think you know when it comes to lens you know we are going to have fun fun applications built on top that's that's the purpose of it um it's going to serve us all different types of social media but I think you know it is a metabus of need uh in a way so I'm going to kind of like take that and it's a blend of the metaverse of need and the metaverse of fun because essentially I think ultimately when we've seen the adoption of crypto generally a lot of it especially when you're looking at Bitcoin in the early days and you look at the the countries where that was adopted first it was really those

countries that developing countries where people had um you know the inability to control their wealth and so we're going to see that as well uh in web3 Social and that will be a driver but I think it might even accelerate it even quicker because you're going to have need um combined with fun and so I think we might even see someone hyper acceleration here um because you're bringing those two things from two different aspects of crypto together uh in web3 Social one more quick follow-up on this because I can't help it I I do remember a time when Facebook was actually fun like it it felt fun it felt new it felt novel it wasn't until like 50 call it 15 years later when everyone woke up and was like oh this is this is pretty messed up like this is destroying

some things in our society like I don't own this platform like is there something to prevent web3 from following a similar trajectory where it starts off as the metaverse of fun and then before you know it we're in this like new dystopia that that we've created years later Evan what do you think about that I think that the surest way for us to enable a social dystopia is to put everything on chain if we were concerned about the you know nature of our data being used without our consent and control imagine what will happen when we make all that data available to everyone on Earth and in space um you know the the publicity of our

data from Facebook pales in comparison to making it available to that global population that Intergalactic population um and so I think that the way that we maintain our integrity and maintain our Humanity in the future of web3 social is through independent ownership of our data and our expression so that we don't offer the opportunity for some centralized authority to have to be trusted to be good um rather instead we can build into code our autonomy and ensure that we never seed control to some party that we may or may not trust um but beyond that I think it's very important for us us to have transparent governance of the protocols that manage our interactions so you know last last

fall Francis Haugen the Facebook whistleblower shared with all of us that um that in addition to breaches of privacy and you know Facebook was perpetuating known harm uh to young people um you know they're aware of the fact that Facebook enhanced suicidal or grew suicidal ideation diminished self-esteem and body image of young users and yet perpetuated those products um you know prioritizing profit over the safety of young people and lying to investors in the process but with the transparency and you know consent enabled by open protocols like lens we can avoid some of that dystopia and we can have um you know combine the forces of our on-chain expression with the

autonomy of ourselves which is what we're building at disco so if we're inside the world of crypto D5 famously got built on this concept of composability and I think we it's fair to extrapolate that the web 3 The Social Web 3 will also be highly composable and I I'm generally thinking that there's a lot of surface area for all three of the projects represented here to interact with each other and be built on and using each other's Primitives and so Evan I kind of want to dig into what you just said as an opportunity to unpack what's going on at disco and then we're going to try and connect these things to what's going on at lens and poapp and see how this world of the Social Web 3 kind of becomes bottom-up immersion in the same way that defy was so so Evan

you've talked a lot about needing users needing to have their own data and perhaps it not being the best place to put it on chain what's going on in the world of disco and how does some of the stuff you're building help enable the Social Web 3. so in the same way that you can carry your tokens from dap to DAP under your self-sovereign control disco enables you to carry your data with you disco is like a data backpack where you can carry your data from web 2 to web3 across apps under your ownership and control and we are called disco because we believe that you as an individual are the multifaceted center of the party everybody should be coming to you to learn about you instead of you leaving parts of yourself and every app that you

visit and you should choose to reflect your identity to the world in whatever way you decide whatever circumstance because our team's definition of the metaverse is one where you can show up to any digital or physical environment and receive a personalized experience as a result of the parts of yourself that you choose to share and so the way that we are able to build this ecosystem is I've alluded earlier to a few awesome new crypto Primitives I'm sure the listeners of Bank lists are well aware of fungible tokens of non-founder tokens but I'm not sure if they all know about decentralized identifiers and verifiable credentials which in my humble estimation are my favorite crypto Primitives although full disclosure I do

have ERC 721 tattooed on the back of my neck too but did some VCS are super awesome Primitives because they allow us to express pieces of data at test stations as you know as bill was describing earlier that are private almost like an off-chain nft verifiable credentials are these you know little self-contained units of data attestations made by one party about another party um and and sort of in so doing my uh my ethereum address can write an attestation about your Bitcoin address your Bitcoin address can send that attestation to a DNS record to an email address a pgp key um and so decentralized identifiers are

sort of The Primitives that allow our existing public identifiers our public Keys our web to identifiers to talk to each other in the shared language of verifiable credentials which like an nft are trustless self-contained persistent and encrypted however unlike on-chain assets they are revocable can be set to expire or private by default and can be disclosed with whatever granularity you want whether in plain text or you know computation through a zero knowledge proof or something else um and so at disco we believe that you should enjoy self-sovereignty over your full human expression not just your financial expression Evan you use one of the the

my favorite metaphors which I was a data backpack and Ryan uses this metaphor a lot is that like your ethereum address is like your inventory for this video game MMORPG that we're all playing but you use the same metaphor but for data rather than for assets and the data that we have in our data backpack are stuff stuff that you've called verifiable credentials uh which I think the listeners might be more familiar with if we if we call these things like your diploma or your certificate of like completion of something and these things what you're building a disco means that you actually don't have to forcibly disclose all of the data about yourself by putting them on chain you can have them in your private off-chain backpack

and then you might take them to a different protocol like lens protocol and lens protocol might be able to interoperate with the reputational assets that you have in your data backpack is am I tracking here is this all right absolutely yes so you can imagine um you know in the future actually in April you will be able to um connect your existing metamask rainbow or other you know ethereum compatible wallet to disco.xyz and then begin visiting other dapps um and you know interacting with those steps and instead of the data that you create in the DAP going to a centralized database or to the public chain it will go with you when you leave so when you go to deck number two step

number two will be able to see the pieces of reputation that you've brought from dap number one and might be able to decrease the amount of onboarding that you have to do the amount of forms that you have to fill out or proofs that you have to furnish in order to uh to optimize your experience in that product and you can imagine that that composable reputation that you build over time from dap to DAP to DAP from web 2 to web 3 can allow you to accrue quite a lot of info about yourself proofs of your you know previous accomplishments of your relationships of your self attestations your descript option of yourself um and so so I love you know Ryan's Ryan's metaphor um and I think that we can kind of extend it here to include not only your on-chain assets being important parts of

your backpack or your loot bag but your off-chain assets as well the private pieces of information that make you you um and so we also like to say a disco that life is a giant Lark and you're running around without a loot bag so when you make awesome data you just have to leave it where you've created it but thanks to disco you'll be able to bring it with you okay Christina I want to see how this plugs in into lens protocol can you just kind of take us take us a tour under the hood of lens protocol and then uh perhaps like connect that to how my lens protocol appreciate a user that brings their their own data to to what's going on at Lens protocol how are these things going to be interoperable yeah yeah so

Evan and I actually funnily enough talk about this um a lot so lens protocol looks at really providing the underlying based layer for the future of social media products and so the idea is not everything needs to be on chain um lens protocol you know that you could have for example a Tinder on on lens protocol you could have New Primitives really that really extend beyond Uh current web 2 social just because of the infrastructure of smart contracts and web 3 and the ability to build in very creative uh interesting use cases but ultimately at the end of the day you know we need to provide people with tools to bring off-chain um data that should never be on chain which me for example I made the mistake

back when I was when I was younger and Facebook was fun I put way too much online uh and I feel now I'm I'm paying for it and so you know as we think about lens and kind of the types of data we want to bring in we are very cognizant uh on making sure that not everything needs to be on chain but the fundamental infrastructure needs to be there for the protocol to work so I'll give you one example that we've actually jived on so you know if you do have a Tinder on web3 for example you know you can't tell the complete picture of me from just the nfts that I own so we'll need to wrap in verifiable credentials which will tell what sex you are um you know maybe what school you went to that you still want to be built into

that algorithm but you don't want to share that we'll bring pop-ups in uh so for example you know where have you attended and you've received similar pops so I think you know all of these three things are going to come together that's one example but you can also think about and this is one that I really love on lens especially coming from a company a social media company that was driven based on ads and and one algorithm and imagine being able to choose your own algorithm to get advertised to so I'm getting paid directly um you know from Brands to service ads on my social and I'm also getting the ability to choose which algorithm um I would like to service to me so you know that will be public I'll be able to

review it and that algorithm will be based on so much data about myself that I choose to share and not all of it needs to be on chain and so I think to be able to optimize the products uh and the different apps and experiences um that can really kind of like flip web to social on its head you need to be able to service all types of data which is why I see you know I speak to these ladies uh quite a bit and I definitely see the importance of bringing all these things together to really optimize the lens uh you know in a way where products are really speaking to people and algorithms um you know have the amount of data to be able to compete with web2 foreign

I got it right um so it sounds like lens protocol is like a social media meta protocol it's not a Facebook but it's a it's a protocol that Facebook could in theory be built on and in the same way that like uh Rari is a superset of compound where like you can recreate any sort of borrowing lending parameters using the Rari protocol lens protocol is you can have your Twitter but you can have your Twitter with a tweaked algorithm or infinitely tweaked or tweaked how you see fit or it's a a meta protocol allowing for any type of social media platform to be built on it if you get the parameters right uh so what is actually being put because I believe

lens protocol is built on polygon so what about lens protocols being put on chain and what is it leaving off chain that enables uh social media protocols to kind of pick and choose what they want to do yeah so lens protocol is built on an nft infrastructure layer and so obviously you need some sort of identifier for your profile so you will have a profile nft um and then your social graph will get built based on a follower nft um which can denote so for example I followed the Bell early um before she was even part of Co-op I would I would get minted a fuller nft that would denote me as one of her first followers and one of her first supporters and so that nft infrastructure is what builds out the social graph and then you obviously have

um you know Collections and and minting of posts and the ability to be able to uh mirror them uh and essentially if you're a curator and you mirror someone's content um you can embed what you would like to get paid so this whole this is the core infrastructure of lens but the idea is that people are going to extend the modules so for example and and not all the data underlying kind of the different products built on top and front-ends uh needs to be on chain but it does need to be decentralized didn't have the ability to speak to the underlying protocol so so that's kind of uh really on on a high level uh how lens works so Isabel I want to turn to you now because I think what these other two

platforms need the most is data about their users because it wouldn't these platforms aren't really anything if they aren't fed data and I don't really think there's any other project that has created a much enough as much data about people and their interactions that that we've had in this crypto world that poapp has so can you talk about also there's a quote that I that I really really like that uh Pro apps are our tokens for digital memories so how can poapps help instantiate crypto memories into the metaverse and how do you see poapps kind of fitting into this uh the world of protocolized social media Platforms in the future so I think the piece you said about um poet being let's say uh if uh Evan and disco are building uh the backpack that

you pair your data around in and uh lens is building the rails that you carry that data over across uh from backpack to backpack or from person to person uh pull-ups are the data that any one individual produces over the course of their life from their interactions with uh other people uh events communities uh educational institutions and most of that data is like a fundamentally it is primitive and that it kind of requires interpretation it requires context about what was going on in the organization in that community in that individual's life in order to make any sense of it right but for a person uh it kind of creates this uh Mosaic of uh a mosaic of records that basically tells you uh exactly what it is that you've been up to I think uh

since August probably since I've gotten into Co-op collecting uh more or less full-time I have a kind of like a more or less weekly record of the things that I've been doing and when I've been doing them and who I was doing them with and actually who else was there with me right and uh who else was doing the same things around the same time what they were doing I can kind of go and browse other people's Collections and take a look at what common interests I didn't know I shared with uh people that are at a certain event right and uh there's a different like of wide variety of different ways about looking at like attendance attestations uh and we finally defaulted to a notion that like uh issuers fundamentally are the oracles that uh tell us who was there at an event right because uh okay so you start

getting into very um Niche cases for proof of attendance if you jumped uh the fence at a concert were you there or not right like and something like this is a lot of what our curation body is currently going through um you know on a case-by-case basis trying to assess uh what qualifies as attendance uh what qualifies as an event because these things can kind of get very very hairy when you start uh thinking about the details and the reason it matters so much is precisely what we're discussing here is that if we're kind of providing that fundamental data layer uh that data layer does need to be clean it needs to have integrity it needs to kind of have uh it needs to be somewhat reputable right and so uh this is uh what Co-op is doing here

one thing that makes me optimistic about the future of web3 social platforms uh making life more fun is that every time I see someone sharing a poapp with someone else Smiles are happening like everything people love to trade poapps it's well do you have any just experiences or lessons that you've learned from just the insane amount of fun that people have when they they share poapps yeah it's uh let me reflect on that for a moment so it's this kind of thing that uh I think happens only when you are getting something that has no strings attached whatsoever you know when you're getting a pull-up it's not that you're thinking about future utility it's not

that you're thinking about the impact of trading decisions or your social status or like any of these other super complicated things that make the fun stuff Less Fun what you're doing is you're getting a pull-off right like oh and it's this badge that you don't know what value it will have if if any ever uh someone may decide that one day it does someone may decide that one day it doesn't uh but really all it is is like uh it's something that is an on-chain record of like pure emotion right uh it's uh emotion it's the memory that you had here that is the value it has it is purely a personal kind of value and whether or not it develops into more than that is kind of like irrelevant Because the actual point is that you are getting um essentially a gift from the person who

put this together that they were thinking enough about the attendance to take uh you know the time to Christ um get a Creator to put some art together and write some nice copy and mint the goddamn thing and uh go through the process creation figure out how to distribute it and uh you know if the distribution is nice then things you know might be really nice because you may maybe you even got this on a nice little patch like the ones you've seen us handing out at NYC maybe you got it on like uh some kind of a physical um little pin and so you get to have like you know a nice little piece of something you like and also an nft can represent that forever so you don't have to feel bad about throwing it out later so it's like a it's this nice little

thing where you get to for a moment in your life experience um pure joy and lack of responsibility for whatever happens with this item right and you still get to remember what happens and you kind of get to also connect with all these people and I think over time people do develop like a sense of um sentimental attachments to their collections right uh because you look through and you see like the wonderful times that you've spent with uh some of your favorite people or what have may become your favorite people one day in the future I'm reminded of uh Marie kondo's advice where if it Sparks Joy but you don't physically need it you can take a picture of it and then throw the item out and I feel like that's what a poapp is is you don't need the sticker because

it has now a PO app in your ethereum address and it can spark joy for you just by sitting forever forever and you don't need to worry about forgetting it's on the blockchain it's on the blockchain um okay guys and you can match with someone on lens if you have the same poem well I think that we actually have uh in mind like I have an idea for a pull-up Tinder uh that like uh one day I'd like to be matched with people that have strong overlap in Co-op collections to me because I feel like those people would be my friends it's friends that I didn't have the chance to meet whenever I was wherever I was well guys I think this is actually leading right into what I want to talk about next which is how this whole web3 social will actually roll out uh this is a running joke I've

had with Evan before is the first web3 social app going to be a dating app uh there's actually reasoning as to why this might be true so that's going to be the first question that I come back with right after we talk about some of these fantastic sponsors that make the show possible slingshot is a decentralized trading platform that combines the performance and ease of a centralized exchange with the openness and transparency of D5 slingshot Aggregates liquidity from all of defy in order to find the best price on thousands of crypto assets every token on slingshot comes with a price chart and trade logs to give you insights into the Marcus activity in real time slingshot is available on polygon arbitrum and optimism saving you from the high gas feeds and low transaction speeds of the ethereum L1 there are no fees to trade on slingshot and any positive slippage

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is that we have these three different protocols that I think all really interoperate well with each other we have po apps for instantiating memories and indicating who and what and where we care about uh we have lens protocol which can help these social graphs be built around these things and then we have disco which allows people to choose how much data or not or or or revoke how much data they want to give out to the world and so really to me I'm seeing just the ingredients for just a grand just Matchmaker system where our values and our interests are verifiably true and on chain and available to others and all of a sudden like we get to find other people aligned in those interests

better than before Evan is this kind of how you see this road map for web3 social kind of being laid out absolutely I think that with fully expressive data about ourselves we can rack up to any app or environment and ask the question you know does my data fit your requirements and as as we've seen in you know in the web free space already with the I think it's the lonely ape stating app or something like that um you know human coordination problems take many shapes and sizes but perhaps one of the most fundamental of human coordination problems is dating and so being able to identify other people who share interests experiences aptitudes

you know preferences with you often um right now in you know the web 2 dating world that requires you to articulate a lot of those things to go out of your way to say what you like to mark on a dating app your preferences um but with the awesome ability to capture your experiences capture your data with disco po app lens and others um now we can allow those algorithms items to do a lot of matching for us so whether you know we share poapps in common whether we went to the same College our you know gender expression preferences and our partners all of these forms of data can do the introducing for us so that we can enjoy an algorithmically selected set of

potential partners with whom we can solve our romantic coordination problems uh Christina do you have anyone ever found that at all uh yeah I have a little bit of a different take on the data so we've been talking a lot about you know from a consumer perspective how this helps us but I think at the same time we need to think about how we're going to bootstrap web 3 social and I think by nature of the infrastructure and the fact that you know you do have the social grass or interoperable is that you're going to have developers that are going to be able to build products you know for the sake of building a product and they're going to have a repository of data to be able to build that based off and a guaranteed social graph um because when you come you bring your

networks uh and you they don't need to spend money uh bootstrapping but they can still be able to build really important tools for us and have the data without necessarily having access or ownership of that data and so I think that's a really interesting um you know thing that I do want to call out about lens is you know it not only is it important for us as consumers of social media but also for Builders out there because you know they're going to have uh you know the the social network is going to come and they don't need to I was at tick tock tick tock spent you know billions of dollars on on user acquisition to be able to compete but now if you have a strong product you also have access to data that everyone else does on an equal footing uh and so

I I think that's a that's going to be um you know a very different proposition in this new world Isabel what thoughts have come to mind while these other two panelists have given their answers so there are two very very different threads here and I'm not sure whether I follow uh the dating and matchmaking or the builders uh maybe let me start with the builders because I think that is uh one of the more interesting things that we've kind of seen at Co-op over the course of building out uh you know this many tentacled uh octopus ecosystem of uh preservation of memories and then everything that you can do once you've done that um at this point I think we've got like a probably between 50 75 maybe running up to 100 uh Integrations uh applications uh various sorts of fun things that you can do once you have

some co-ops in your wallet and if you're an issuer that wants to kind of provide that added value and I think one of the interesting things that we've kind of seen is this opportunity to actually like I go one step further and connect the builders to other builders right you start kind of connecting uh different apps that are building different things that you kind of see the interfaces and uh once those start to like plug and play together nice I think that's like where probably lens is going to fit in as a fundamental infrastructure that like that isn't going to have to be maybe we still have the discoverability problem but at least the interface problem is one that is uh minimized uh I think to the point uh maybe going back to uh our you know world's best dating app uh you know forget the dating thing

I want to meet people who are on the same Mission like I want to meet uh friends who've had like the same ideas about the same things that I've been thinking about for the last five years uh and see where it is that we you know maybe had the opportunity to connect like missed each other and I think that's kind of where I see uh application for uh maybe one of the you know if we talk about like what the first web3 social app is uh at some level all humans have been trying to do with social media since I don't know social media was a thing is like find each other right if you think about like Twitter versus Facebook and why all of us ended up on Twitter it's an ecosystem for the uh dissemination of ideas somehow like that right and uh so as a result of

this uh rampant dissemination of ideas and our follower networks and whatnot eventually when we all meet in real life it's like uh you feel like these are your kin you feel like these are people that you connect with on a fundamental level and I think what I'm really excited about in terms of uh like a web three uh especially at the bottom-up driven um picture of identity and how that might inform uh social applications is literally just the ability to facilitate those meaningful connections those connections that are going to be meaningful and valuable and interesting to people right as opposed to having the discovery problem uh or the call it the validation problem right where uh there's another thing like uh Evan was saying something about needing to um provide this information to the

application the other let's say awkward elephant in the room with regards to uh web to coordination problems between people uh you need to figure out how you tell if someone is telling the truth right and that's a station that someone gives at the point of time that they're filling an application of a dating app is a very different thing versus a history that you've been building and maintaining for going on two three years however long that you've been living your life right and so I think one of the maybe good cases for uh web 3 social apps uh in general is just like the fact of having that history that is uh verifiable immutable and whatever uh in whatever sense of their

forever whether it's on chain off chain uh private public but it's something that was written before the need for it to be written a rose right and I think that actually is kind of a really key thing when it comes to connecting people and meeting boys so I have this uh I I think it's more legitimate than a conspiracy but I'll call it a conspiracy just because that's fun um the internet was initially adopted uh as a social use case people with like-minded interests all ended up in the same Forum so they could talk about the same things and that was web one and web 2 was really just an extrapolation of that it's like oh let's make it easier for all these people to find each other and then it turns out that they could just like you know extract money

from us via advertisers let's make it easier but then it's monetizing but then let's monetize it right and I'm also I'm friends with um a guy Michael Wong at the bankless team who works in a virtual reality who's also convinced that virtual reality is not going to take off until social use cases about virtual reality take off and so I'm wondering if there's a pattern here where you know we me and Ryan back in the depth of the bear Market were like man as soon as the world gets this defy thing crypto is going to take over and like no it wasn't defy that really brought crypto to the world it was nfts and nfts are a very cultural and very social use case and so I'm wondering is is crypto really going to come to dominate the world via the

social use cases that it brings and what's it really going to take for us to allow for on on board what is a web 2 level of users into into web3 is it really going to be the Social Web 3 era or the Social Web 3 protocols that really do this Isabelle I'll throw it back to you so so David you know this is something that we've thought about a lot in that especially as we're building out Co-op making it easy for uh normal people to use for normal things that they may want to do in the normal course of their lives there's a reason that you're able to claim a pull-up with an email and migrate it to a wallet at some later point in time we do not want to assume that people who want to have uh you know verifiable proof of uh their

attendance at something or their uh the enjoyment of some particular moment necessarily need to know what metamask is or what crypto is or what wallets nfts any of that uh as far as we are concerned we are any conditions of preservation memories this is a token that you get for being here and the implementation detail is completely relevant right I think when it comes to um like the crypto social use case ultimately we need to be building applications and tools that people that are in that can use it in there in the course of their everyday lives right until it's like uh enough of a thing that you don't need to worry about um Chris like how uh NFC works or how payment networks work or how anything else and now you know as I go through my

day-to-day I don't usually have to worry about uh is this transaction gonna fail uh do I need to bump the gas like things like that I think um ultimately it is a little bit of a usability problem as much as as it is a need problem right like on the one hand it is definitely that it's going to be the fun that brings people in on the other we also need to make it uh safe enough to have fun uh one of the things of using crypto applications today is that like um unless you're used to crypto world it is a terrifying experience like you click some buttons and you sign some things and it tells you it's a wyvern contract and like honestly any normal person would be baffled right and so I think um yeah to put it like in summary it's like

yes it's the social thing but it's also just uh realistically the maturity of the ecosystem Christina I want to throw the same question to you is it gonna be the social elements of crypto that onboards eight billion people yeah so I think crypto obviously uh has Cycles uh and so you know usability is going to be a big driver of the next mainstream cycle for all crypto products so whether that's defy whether that's social um I do think with nfts what we did see was that's the closest thing to culture um that we've encountered right and that was the biggest Drive of versus need um and so you know when we think about you know web web 3 social I I do think you know there's going to be it's gonna

Network effects take a long time and I think there is going to be you know initial hotbeds of culture which is what drive people to web3 Social and it will have an amplified effect because you're bringing in your network um similar to how like I don't mean to give this example again but when I was at Tick Tock right what why is Tick Tock so relevant because that's where culture happens in a social setting and so I think that is a good leading indicator of like you know how our social platforms going to evolve um but I do think you know who would have thought we would have been having this conversation a year ago about building social on um ethereum right polygon was was still kind of you know growing and gaining momentum and and now you know we have

these layer twos that we weren't even talking about at the table here um last year so I do think usability and the tech is going to drive this but I think the initial driver at least you know from the the web 3 perspective is going to be culture that's going to bring people and it's going to those people that are on the fringes in this cycle uh will start to adopt probably if they weren't in nfts maybe they'll be driven because one of their favorite creators has realized the benefits um of owning uh and rewarding their fans in an independent way uh so I I do think that you know usability is is something we we talk about at all a lot and I don't think the initial you know web three platforms are going to be able to offer the same uh you know consumer experience

as you know web2 um it'll take something else to get those people there so whether it's need culture um and then we're kind of just susceptible to to like the overall web 3 adoption Cycles Evan where do you think the world of social is involved with onboarding as many people as possible into this industry I mean it is integral it is the magnet that draws us all in um you know nft is as as you stated earlier were really the first clear vessel for culture because they're the most expressive primitive that we've had yet and you know they're an accessible primitive due to the incredible tooling and accessibility provided by amazing teams like poapp that diminished the onboarding costs and the complexity for users to be able to

engage with these Primitives and now thanks to verifiable credentials we have even more expressive Primitives that can contain any payload we want uh you know video image text Keys proof of friendship proof of chill birthday party invitations you name it um in a form that is uh you know trustless independently verifiable but revocable and so now that we have all these really cool tools the only way that we can make them accessible as both Christina and Isabelle noted is to address the biggest blocker to web3 adoption which is usability and so if we have an incredibly usable joyful personal Human Experience there needs to be something to draw people through that user journey through that experience and

that draw is culture and so I think a combination of um you know low complexity readily useful tools as well noted earlier that fit into our existing lives and do not demand that we meaningfully change and exert more effort in new ways but rather capture Downstream what we are already doing so that we can you know enjoy the activities we already want to be doing in a faster cheaper more secure more independent way as this has been a fantastic panel and I think a very useful very insightful for anyone who wants to go from you know zero to to 60 on web3 social and what's going on in the space uh so I want to

maybe take us home with this last question then so you sparked our imagination a little bit on what this world could could look at it could look like in the future and I think my ask is that uh you tell us a bit more about that so what is social media going to look like in our world in five years from now let's say if web3 social is successful if your Visions are successful what's the world going to look like uh Evan why don't we start with you the world is going to look like one where we are able to enjoy all of the connectivity that we can today with our friends but we can do it without the watchful eye of some web 2 company

um intervening in our interactions I think that this world looks like one where we're able to capture our proofs of non-financial work whether it's listening to a thousand hours a month of illenium or you know buying merchandise going to concerts showing up at meetups um our ability to to capture and represent all of the data that makes us us will then lead to a much more authentic and expressive organic and natural feeling way to interact with the world way to discover friends who are well suited to our interests and our lifestyles and to generally lessen the effort that we have to put in to find awesome communities and join them Christina what would you add about this

new world if web is social successful I think web3 social is really going to push like the potential of social because we talked about composability and tooling and and kind of decentralized building and I think you know by virtue of smart contracts and and what can be building into them and and different conditioning I think we're going to see some really really interesting uh projects that you know sitting here today we wouldn't have even imagined um just because when you put all those Lego blocks together and and you give people kind of choice and and freedom and tools to really build and to bring networks um and to build to service different needs I think we're going to see kind of we talk we talk about this all the time

um at Ave where we're working with a company called We Three um to help us think about all the different types of products that can be developed on lens and and I've come out of that in my mind is my mind is blown and if you go on lens uh dot Dev and you go to the bottom we're slowly starting to bring some of these Concepts out some of them you know even like Dow tooling uh and profiles and and how do you think about merging to social profiles together uh and and things like that so it's going to get quirky um really quickly so I encourage everyone to go to lens.dev uh and to keep track of all of these these wacky ideas um that that we're throwing out there because um it's fun and and they all service needs and and we can't even predict

where web3 is going to go uh and part of you know web3 social is servicing new work through Primitives uh as well Isabel take us home where's this all gonna go in five years if web3 is successful people have evolved uh is uh through social connections it's through connecting with other people who have uh complementary beliefs that are working on similar problems that are driving in similar directions right and uh that's kind of like how we make uh our biggest discoveries our biggest steps forward uh how we address challenges that Humanity has been dealing with for a long time and I think that where I really see it is that like this all this enabling

people to connect in new and more interesting ways is bringing people together in uh ways that is uh let's say more uh on the one hand uh private from watchful eyes on the other uh targeted based on personal data that those people are choosing to expose about themselves uh you're looking at the ability to form those more relevant connections faster right and uh when you do that I think there's an incredible world of possibility that opens up uh that people can do things that we today can't even imagine so I think that's uh web free uh super exciting it feels very much like web3 social is maybe where D5 was uh for you four or five years ago where we're in this this era where we're

developing Primitives and envisioning the future and the future certainly looks bright uh I left this panel with a lot of questions answered answered so uh for that panelist I thank you very much I um do have one outstanding question though of course which may not be answered in this panel is does Evan really have an ERC 721 tattoo on the back of her neck maybe we'll never know am I am I a canonical member of Inked out absolutely yes let me see if I can show you guys this is real wow it's really a piece of ink right here you gotta commit to immutability if we want to ask the rest of the world to join us wait Evan I'm sorry uh I didn't have the

right camera highlighted can you show that again and also make noise highlighted to you all right are you guys able to see there we go erc721 amazing out for life oh I hope my mom's not watching this she just learned something all right guys risks and disclaimers of course I feel like we didn't even talk about financial topics so maybe I don't even need to say none of this was Financial advice uh eth is risky Defy is risky you could definitely lose what you put in but we are headed west this is the frontier it's not for everyone but we're glad you're with us on the bank list Journey thanks a lot hey we hope you enjoyed the video if you did head over to bankless HQ right now to develop your

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