Social tokens, NFTs and building community-first in web3

Transcript

what's up friends welcome to web3 academy a place for entrepreneurs creators and marketers to explore and learn how to use web 3 to transform business models and create thriving communities enjoy this next episode gm gm welcome to web3 academy it is the weekly doer spotlight and today we've got with us jeff kaufman jeff is the founder of parachute and jump jump is a discord group i've been in for months now and it's really the best community for marketers uh and brands uh to learn about web3 uh i saw recently or maybe this was earlier this year the morning brew called jump the discord

community where marketers learn about web3 uh and i think jeff you can correct me if i'm wrong but probably about half of fortune 500 companies have a brand manager in jump um but before before starting jump uh jeff spent about 15 years focused on web one and web two brand building i worked with clients gamestop dr pepper chick-fil-a uh and uh he also is an avid skydiver uh and i think i think we'll probably start there uh first off jeff welcome to the podcast great to have you here it's great to be here um yeah excited to chat with you guys uh we're at this interesting moment in time where we're

all trying to learn web3 and so we got a lot to talk about awesome awesome as always i'm with uh kyle is here as well i'm sorry guys sometimes i forget to say hey to you at the beginning of the pod i got so excited about the intro all right don't forget you guys i'm here too hey everybody there he is uh okay well uh jeff let's let's start with skydiving because uh for those who are listening there's a uh photo in the background of uh jeff's um video here of uh i'm guessing himself skydiving i asked him before he jumped on this call about that and i think there's an inter interesting intersection of your passion for skydiving and online community building and maybe that starts your story uh from

many years ago it does it does skydiving online community building marketing all of that kind of entered my life at the same time which was 2005 i made my first skydive and uh here in here in dallas texas at a local drop zone called skydive dallas um and after making about nine jumps i well the first jump i was obsessed so i don't want to do it anymore uh which i i will have to say i am a retired skydive not skydiver now so i made 1800 jumps um and then hung it up in in 2015 so i had a really good run but

uh in 2005 yeah i just i started jumping uh was hooked going every single week and i looked around and i was just like i want to meet more people that want to do this stuff and i want to meet more people in dallas that want to do this stuff and what's the best way to do it well maybe it's through online community building and at the time myspace was the biggest social network 2005. um and so i started a myspace page for skydive dial so i always say sky dallas was my first brand client which the funny thing is i didn't ask them to be i just did it um and then a probably about three months into running

a myspace page for them without them knowing the manager came up to me and like hey i heard you're running a myspace page for us and i thought i was in trouble i thought he was going to kick me off the drop zone and i would not be allowed back and he was like we should pay you because you're doing a really good job i was like how'd you find out and he goes well we have these comment cards that like ask people after their skydive what their experience was like and one of the sections is how did you hear about us and people are writing myspace in the other box um so that's how that's how he found out there was a myspace page and then he tracked me down um and so i was like well i'm a poor college student i don't

have any money skydiving is expensive well you just give me free jumps and that'll give me a reason to come out here every week so that turned into me sort of transitioning from myspace to facebook i saw the trajectory of facebook i saw how they were transitioning so i transitioned the brand skydive dallas all this was in college transitioned them to facebook that facebook page became the largest page in the world for skydivers back in 2007. so in 2007 i'm running the largest page in the world first facebook page in the world for skydivers i'm in college i'm now jumping as much as i want whenever i want because i'm driving so much business for skydive

dallas that they're just like you can get on the plane whenever you want um and so they gave you the plane yeah they just basically gave me the plane um and so yeah i mean i i would make like 30 jumps in a day whenever i could oh my gosh wow totally insane and so yeah that kind of that kind of kicked off this 15-year kind of journey for me where i was doing online community building social media strategy and then i got hired into an advertising agency a big agency if you're familiar with chick-fil-a uh our agency came up with the cows like that was our invention was the chick

flake house so big brand campaign work like that um and yeah i entered the agency in 2009 and i knew more about social media than anybody in this sort of billion dollar agency so i just started running social uh first account i worked on was fruit of the loom and then i basically spent 12 years building a social media a digital strategy innovation sort of practice and service within this agency wow awesome awesome okay so uh take us to that takes us up till um a couple years ago i'm guessing take us take us to the next part of

what got you into web three how did that transition happen so one of one of the things i always told myself in my career uh was that i wanted to be a part of whatever next massive transition happened and i knew that i would i had entered my career at the start of web 2 but i knew something else would come that would blow my mind and i always use i would always ask these old school advertising execs like what was it like to work without a computer and like like i always like i asked every single one of them there's so many of them in this big huge agency i was like what did you do all day without a computer and

they would describe their life and i'm like something as big as that is gonna happen and in my lifetime it's gonna be so weird that like compute like computer moment like not oh there's mobile or there's now we have social media versus no no no something so transformative that it's like not working with a computer to working with a computer with internet and mobile and phone and just like so fundamentally different so i was always like trying to find that and my sort of gauge was just like what's the weirdest thing uh the first time i came across crypto was 2013 i actually thought it was a

scam i was like this is complete um and so i just paid no attention to it then in 2017 i bought the top like and i was like now but the reason i bought the top and the reason that it really sucked me in is i was standing at a gas station and the clerk and the customer who would have never been talking before like the clerk a dingy gas station too just like side of the road dingy gas station they're both talking about bitcoin and they're talking in a passion like they're friends

and that is what like really like caught my attention because i've been in this world of social and community and subcultures like skydiving is a subculture and then there's a niche of skydiving that i was in there's even more of a subculture so i'm very clued into to these like subcultures and i can see like that passion and that dynamic and when i saw that gas station clerk talking with the customer it was that oh my god there's some sort of subculture thing going on here that i need to look into and so i bought the top wrote it all the way down but from 2017 to 2020 i still paid attention to the space

but being a marketing guy and brand background as i learned about the space it's finance it's tech i'm like this doesn't make any sense to me um i don't know where i fit in in any of this i don't know that i want to go market these crypto companies that are out there like so but i'm fascinated by it because it's so weird it's just so different um then uh something else is happening during 2017 2017-2020 uh the other thing is i'm getting extremely frustrated with facebook with google with amazon with instagram youtube

because from 2005 to 2017 it was kind of like this golden era of building community and then once paid was introduced it's like okay there's paid but we can use it it's really good but really what happened i won't go into like too much detail but like these big tech companies put golden handcuffs on all these large brands so a lot of uh people will say like creators are being screwed by like facebook and instagram that is true but i view brands as enterprise versions of creators and so these mega brands are are getting shafted and it just like

web 2 just lost all its sort of luster its charm and just what i enjoyed from 2005 to 2017 it just wasn't there and so 2017 to 2020 it just like really tapered off so i start trying to find something and what's next and somehow in early 2020 i come across the term social token and i use like lots of fancy internet software to track conversations and whatnot the first time so the term social token was used on the internet at least was 2019 december so i found it about one month after the term had been used

and when i hear that term i'm just like this is me i've been following crypto like in the way people described it is like this token can organize people on the internet and i'm like i've been trying to organize people on the internet [Laughter] and i also have been rug pulled by facebook in youtube and i understand the concept of ownership and i don't own my digital property rights and so when i start to think about all that in the frustrations of web 2 and then i just hear this one little inkling of

social token i'm like this is this is the future so i spent all of 2020 essentially trying to educate and learn one of the things i did was i created a trends deck and because it was coveted everybody's sitting at home and so i just started dropping a zoom call on like all the smartest people that i knew that work in the brand and marketing and ad tech and mart tech space so i presented this trends deck in 2020 seems like like two decades ago i presented it to junior creative strategist all the way to ceo founder of a three billion dollar

company right like a huge huge spectrum and i just wanted feedback because i'm like i'm learning all of this stuff and i lay out dowels and nfts and social everything we're talking about now i lay it all out in this deck because i don't know what to do with it i'm just like i just see it i just learn it and so here like i just like like give me feedback yeah and everybody said the exact same thing this is so cool i've never heard any of it before and i have no idea what to do i think

yeah and so it's just like you hear that enough and it's like oh people like it um they've never heard it so it's new and fresh and they don't know what to do and then i'm sitting here like i don't know who to talk to about this like i want to i don't know where that community is and so that leads me to oh i need to start a community right and use these tools as a foundation for the community and then by doing so like i'll scratch my own itch i'll meet other people that have my similar professional background we'll talk about it and then we'll learn at a rate that we could never learn because we're going to

like fundamentally use web3 to build our community and so that's where jump into web 3 came from and the reason it's called jump is just kind of like i don't know it's a it's a little bit it fits because we'll take a step back when i decided that i needed to leave my agency with my agents of the agency i worked at to go into web 3 full time i was like i need a company name and i don't know what i'm going to do i don't know what service i'm going to offer i know i'm not doing wet 2 stuff i'm going to do something but i need to just stand up in llc and like start a company i'm just gonna call it parachute because parachute

like i need a parachute to jump out of this corporate company and then as the idea of like a actual product to build in quotes i'm quoting um as a product to build that's where jump came in and it was like oh we need to jump into web3 okay let's call it jump oh that fits really well with you know parachute is the thing that's funding all this so very organically that kind of where parachute jump came from it's an amazing story uh first of all i love it um i want to get into jump a lot of that

and i think we will get into that probably maybe more at the end we'll explore web three and your thoughts on that first um and so to start with that like i know you said you saw the word social token and so that was like okay this makes sense what was the thing that like clicked for you where once you learned about nfts and dows and all that like how did you just all of a sudden know like okay this is it this is how you build communities like what does web 2 not offer to build the community in the right way and what does web3 offer can you sort of break those down yeah so when i there's a few things that clicked in my brain like just really fast and i can't really say why but i think it's just because i'm i'm so close to the internet

and how the infrastructure is actually built and the economy of it right because i essentially worked in ad tech because that's what social turned into was just one big ad tech company and so i fundamentally understand the economics of the internet as it stands now i know this crypto thing that i'm learning about and so when i came across social token and i understand how oh i can hold this token in my wallet and then that wallet that token is my key into any portal or website or app and immediately i'm like oh what

username and password goes away the database has changed the database used to be facebook server the database is now ethereum the blockchain and if the database has changed and anyone can build on top of the database then that means that anyone any group of people who hold a token can move between any digital experience that they want and so because the database is not facebook the database is here and so that's kind of like the nerdy underlying thing and so as soon as i saw that i was like oh well you'd now in web 2 you built communities on

facebook like on a platform and that community was not portable and it was a walled garden and there's a bad you're in handcuffs that's golden handcuffs i talked about web 3 flips that on its head so instead of communities on platforms communities are the platform the reason they're the platform is because they're aligned by that token and if they all hold that token they can go log in to any experience a zoom call uh the next version of reddit the next version of whatever right so communities are massively portable and that puts the power in the community's hands versus in the platform's hands and that just to me

that was like oh well that also makes sense from a value and economic uh perspective because who at who creates the value for like facebook it's us like we are on the platform people don't realize it all for web too like think about it you get on facebook you get on google you get on youtube you are a unpaid employee of those platforms right so it's like that's not the power but you create the value but you have your slaves like this is digital slaves that's what we're talking about

um it's hard it's like it's like very aggressive to like think about it that way but like that's the world like we are enslaved to these big tech companies and we get paid nothing and sure oh bread here's some like the place to rest your head right like but that's it like we just get to do this stuff and it's just it's it's not fair and so you know the when the token is also there's a market around the token right like it's freely tradable that means that value can actually flow to the token which means value flows to the community who creates

the value for that you also mentioned that the so like obviously the users we are we are the slaves of facebook as you said but you also mentioned like the enterprises are in uh i think you said handcuffs or shackles or something to facebook as well can you just dive a little bit further into that because in one point of it like enterprises do really well on facebook and that they can build big audiences they can run ads and spend a lot of money and you know convert people off of the platform into their world but sort of talk about what's the negative side of that that you that you explored as well yeah so when you really get into the weeds of operating uh like running a brand a large brand on these platforms there are some really bad things that

are happening um one your data as a brand when you're targeting your customers and you're like running these ad campaigns facebook's learning like their machine algorithms are learning what what makes someone convert for a cpg product versus a financial product versus i don't know some some an auto like whatever and so essentially as you just pump money into these ad campaigns to drive these conversions you're training their algorithms to then go run that convert that algorithm and that targeting for your competitors

and your competitors are bidding on the same audience and so there's basically there's a first mover advantage in terms of using this ad tech and that first mover advantage happened between 2012 and 2017 but as the data and the machine learning and the algorithms learned right and started feeding that and as more brands came in and started competing right it's an auction when you buy these ads if you're not familiar with it it's an auction all these brands are competing against each other and basically it only benefits facebook because the price just goes up [Music]

right and then facebook does more and more and more to trap like you know you you made the comment which is a a good observation and facebook fights it but the comment about hey we can sort of reach our audience and then convert them over here to write to our ecosystem well facebook does everything it can to stop that from happening and continually build new products and so like the commerce functionality it's like oh no don't buy on the brand's website we're going to allow you to upload your entire product catalog into facebook and you're going to run ads and then the conversion in before you know it

like you're never going to the brand's website and now facebook has basically a choke hold on all distribution all conversions and all that and we saw that with google so what did people do with websites for a long time it sent traffic to these other websites but over time google started building in the back end to say no no no don't actually put your content into facebook you'll get better into google get more exposure and so over time google's just said and it's just like pulled it all more and more into its own that's where the term if you google walled garden that's where the term came

from because these big tech companies and mainly google and facebook are most guilty of this amazon to a certain degree as well is they create these walled gardens where once you're it's attractive so you come in but then you can't get out very interesting and you so you said you went to all these brands you explained to them like i'm assuming you explained to them this and you're like this isn't the future until you explained web 3. and he said a lot of them didn't know what to do with it this was back then i think in 2020 you mentioned yeah what about what about now what are conversations like like how are those conversations changed over the last couple years as you speak with bigger brands and in these companies oh it's i mean it's it's 19 days it's everything

that i thought was gonna take four to five years to happen happened in six months so like i in 2020 i was like right in terms of what i thought would happen and then i was completely wrong on the timeline and it works and if that's okay it all happened six to 12 months earlier and thank god it well you know i was pretty nervous about leaving my my corporate did is a good gig and but i always wanted to pursue like the next big wave and be out in front of it um and so when i when i talk to brands now it's like that that first thing i said about people

have are were like oh i've nev i have no idea what you're talking about like at all the words you just said i've never heard them before that's not the conversation anymore right like it's like i've heard of nfts i've heard of social tokens i've heard of crypto i've heard of wallets i've heard of metamask it's i don't know what it is but i've heard of it right and so that awareness phase is like completely like we've made it past that so this point where we're kind of like at that mass awareness but not mass adoption and not mass not even mass like intent right like people are still like they're not even sure if they want to do it yet

but they've heard of it right it's like bubbling around and to a certain degree you know people are like you know what whatever i do and this is just the nature of business life corporate america whatever i do in web 3 is not going to help me reach my quarterly goals so like i'm actually like i'm actually putting it off because it's not going to help me in the next quarter but i'm aware of it and i know i have to figure it out at some point and so a lot of people are kind of in that bucket and then you've got this like leading edge group of brands and innovators and it's usually a single person inside

of a big agency or a big brand mostly it's inside of a big brand um because agencies are just they can only do what their clients want to do right right right so usually there's some brilliant renegade like i don't care if i get fired type of person who like doesn't give a about the quarterly goals i want to do i want to do cool stuff i want to be innovative and so there's people like that not very many um visa visa has a guy guy sheffield and they've been they've also been

empowered but i think they've also led the way too right like they've convinced their colleagues and whatnot um and so yeah there's there's a few there's now these renegades that are like trying stuff and you know a lot of times a question that i'll get is like what are brands doing wrong in web 3 right now and my response back is nothing anybody nothing because you know what brands that are doing stuff are they're experimenting they're learning of course they're gonna make mistakes the people that are doing that that are doing it wrong is everybody who's sitting on the sideline and not

experimenting that's the mistake way too many people focus on like oh that was a mistake you launched that wrong you shouldn't have done that all that none of those are mistakes those are those are pioneers and those are people learning yeah i mean we're going before jay we get excited sometimes the uh the press alone of doing a web 3 campaign makes it worth it in my mind right now you know you're gonna you're gonna get such a viral lift from the media just flow of any web 3 story that they're looking to grab right now so even if it didn't work from a profit standpoint which i'm sure often it's

probably difficult to make that work right now there's there's so much benefit to come right totally i mean when when visa bought their crypto punk we're not even coming one year right that was the last yeah good point when they bought their crypto punk the media coverage that they got from buying that was probably 20x what they actually paid for it oh absolutely absolutely jeff i have a question for you what do you think so there's a lot of brands that are wondering what the heck's going on here with web3 what do you think is the challenges or the main challenges of web through right now that's kind of holding back a lot of these people from coming in you said there's a lot of them on the sidelines not knowing what to do

uh what are the main challenges do you think at this point yeah i think there there's kind of two buckets to put in in terms of the challenges it's the individual that's sitting within a brand of them just learning and not just the their own like oh i've got to learn how to use this computer because that that's what web 3 is it's a new kind of virtual computer like computing platform right we talked about how ethereum is the database for social like that's a computer it's a database and so that's the first challenge is just like the individuals with inside of these companies actually being able to learn and um and understand what it what's what's going on

um then there's the business challenges like making the business case and so there's a few ways to go about framing that or your entrepreneur talking to investors or whether you're a fortune 1000 kind of company there's different kind of angles that that you'll take um but you know it's getting over the business case because uh a cfo who you know cfos they like to count their beans and they don't like to give their beans um and that's good like we yeah we need good bean counters um but um you have to make the case of like i'm gonna take your beans and i'm gonna give you more beans back

and you know that's a hard case to be to make right now the cfos know you call them bean counters i used to call my own cfo there's no bean counters on this podcast and nobody listening to this oh yes it's a bean character what about jeff the other challenge that i keep hearing brands bring up is that just the size of the web3 market right now right the amount of users that there are you know what something like 500 000 wallets own nfts uh you know 50 million wallets globally roughly in the world you know like

what do you what do you do if you're is that is that big enough in your mind to to to go after something in web 3 um or do you do you think that's what's causing some of the brands that sit on the sidelines it's definitely what's causing a lot of brands to sit on the sidelines the dangerous thing about sitting on the sidelines is when we talk about the growth so okay so let's like kind of start with the data point that you just gave which is a great data point there's roughly 300 000 active traders or buyers of nfts on a monthly basis right there's three billion dollars of trading volume happening it's only 300 000

wallets oh here's another data point if you're trying to launch an nft campaign a lot of nft campaigns don't meant out and they don't know why um it's because of those 300 000 monthly active wallets just for nfts right the number you gave like takes into a bit like a large coin or all wallets you know it's a bit bigger but like specifically nfts are the things that make the most sense for brands so that's a good data point to focus on of those 300 000 30 to 40 000 of those wallets drive like the vast majority of the activity so we're at this we're kind of at this rough kind of patch of if i'm launching an nft campaign

is my audience really in that 30 to 40 000. chances are no right chances are those are just djinn flippers that want your nftv and sell it at a higher price to the person that you actually want in your community right right and so that's a scalper that's yeah it's it's a scalper um so that's not good uh but like let's rewind to a maybe like 15 months ago like not even a year and a half ago there were only 500 000 metamask wallets wow that's insane everything in 2020 when i gave that trends deck there were

even fewer yeah right but like when i was given that trends deck in uh 2020 the wallet growth had gone from like 30 000 to 500 000 in like six months and it was look at this growth well then if you go from that 500 000 point to where we are today we've gone from 500 000 wallets so i think metamask's last report was 30 million yeah right now that doesn't mean they're monthly active right but that's the business case right of exponential growth and there's this like growth curve that's very important

for people to understand is um all through with exponential growth of just like the hockey stick right starts low and then hockey sticks up but really the way growth works is there's s-curves and so you know if you're listening to this on audio just like it's a it's a little bit different maybe we can post it in the show or something like that but basically we go through these moments where there's exponential growth and then it flatlines for like five years so web 2 we had massive exponential growth between 20 2005 and 2015 and then in the digital landscape

you know if you were in the space 2015 to 2020 was not exciting right that's the flat line we're now right at the start that hockey stick again and so if you miss those hockey sticks you just miss tremendous upside in what you can do for grant i think the other data point too is like i i think the last report i saw it was from raul raul pal and um and his partner at gmi it was like something like 360 million users like hold crypto or own crypto in some way which like those are the people that are on the sideline to like they have the assets to just bridge right into web3 yeah they haven't done it many of them uh but

something will get their attention and get them to do it maybe it's just user experience needs to get better whatever it is but they're close they're there and i think that's another great data point to show is like they're on the sidelines right they're about to come they just need to download a wallet yeah let's let's like use very fundamental marketing frameworks we've got kind of masked awareness and like if you walk to anybody and you said have you heard of bitcoin or crypto the answer would be yes or if you've heard of blockchain probably yes so that's awareness and then the data point you just gave is purchase intent right right it's like you have a wallet you hold something and you're showing a high signal of purchase intent right and then right at that point right

in the next couple of years they're gonna flip down to highly active sort of members of this space and so a bigger if you're a brand you're saying wow there's 300 million people showing high signal purchase intent and nobody's got a good offering for them but somebody's gonna have that right and the opportunity size is seven billion people right it's the whole world can use this it's not just one country or one demographic it's anyone and everyone and they already are like this is such a global thing that's happening here so i mean the business case is unbelievable so you speak to a lot of brands do you have like a framework where you're like

okay i don't know you're talking to someone from cola or pepti or whatever and they have the guy that wants to go rogue and doesn't care about beans and he's like okay i wanted to bring this you know this enterprise into web3 do you have sort of a framework of like here's where to start here's what you should do maybe it's like launching on a t or it's a po-app or it's a token or like what are you thinking and can you work walk us through a bit of a playbook so so actually the the first thing that you've got to do it's not the fun part but you've got to go talk to the legal counsel right like we can talk about cool activations all day long but if you're an actual business and and you're not starting from scratch and

you're not an entrepreneur that's like you know flying a little bit under the radar yeah you're a real business especially if you're a public company right we're talking about public companies in that case but even private companies that have been around gotta go talk to legal team all right sort out all the legal stuff like just get kinda through some of that then you gotta go talk to the bean counters has always got to go back to the bean country then you have to go get the finances to get on board and then once you get the finance team on board so essentially like a lot of people make the mistake of not getting buy-in from their peers before they have this brilliant idea so i think the people

that go that are really forward-thinking and innovative and go rogue inside of these companies they're actually really good at getting internal buy-in and getting champions that will support them in each of the departments that matter right and so if you're an entrepreneur your version of that is all of like your customers and like the different segments of your customers and maybe even your partners that like maybe some of your suppliers are maybe even part of this ecosystem and so there's this moment of like you need to go get alignment with a lot of people you can't just come up with this idea and do it on your own it

the thing and the reason is is because you know when we think about marketers this is not a marketing campaign there is a marketing campaign to sport support it but this is a this is a new business this this can literally be a new subsidiary of most companies it can be its own p l but even that's a little bit short-sighted because it's it's almost like saying like at the start of like just using software and computers and the internet and cloud services this affects every part of the organization every part of the organization and it fundamentally changes business

models and so first step is you gotta go kind of get by okay so once you get buy-in and once you start to have some of those conversations one of the best ways to get buy-in is to run workshops do training and so as you're listening to conversations like this right just go take all the podcasts all the articles where we talk about all this stuff inside of jump there's people that share decks and there's lots of resources just go train like go train people okay so as you train people as you onboard people there's lots of cool tools uh like poe apps so poe apps are for p-o-a-p uh is a form of an nft that doesn't cost

any money and so you can actually what you want to do is you want to be the first person to like on board your cfo your legal counsel your creative team get them to set up with a with a wallet at the end of their your presentation have them collect a poe app and then go into and like connect their wallet to a token like you need to like do these experiences and like have people kind of touch and touch and feel it um and then once you've got people leaning in like that and they're having fun and they're asking questions people are going to get excited and then you can take it kind of further and then you can work with you all of these now partners that you have

to lead the organization into web3 super smart like once you get someone to download the wallet and connect to an application it's the aha moment i feel like for everyone they're just like whoa i didn't need to create an account this all my stuff moves with me like i like to actually get the company involved first you do that and then you show them the growth trends right and then it's like okay which side of this equation are we going to be on so okay so that's that's corporate jeff's hat yeah i gotta ask let's put on d-gen jeff hat if you were to speak to more of an entrepreneur or more of somebody who's not at a big

corporation doesn't actually need to get buy-in what would you say to them uh in terms of advice or frameworks to think about getting into web3 yeah absolutely so so i i fit in this conversation like now i'm kind of talking to myself so as i'm talking to the entrepreneurs out there i'm also talking to myself because now i'm in that bucket um so one of the my strategic move that i think can be applied to any industry and dozens if not hundreds if not thousands of ways is when i started to have those conversations remember like nobody knew what it was they didn't know where to start and then we've talked about how adoption is low and i'm like okay well how do i get out in front of this

well it's too early for me to go start a brand around you know something and go you know take on uh levi's i actually used to own a denim store as a hobby we won't go down rabbit hole but it was the best denim store in texas so like when i saw this stuff i'm like well why don't i go take on levi's and i'm like just people aren't ready for it right like i can take on levi's in a couple years um so really what an what many many entrepreneurs can and should do is go work with their industry peers right it doesn't necessarily mean you're

um it actually can't even mean your competitors right yeah there's there's so much blue ocean and white space to go conquer that it actually doesn't matter if you and your competitors like collaborate you actually might find your next business partner right definitely and so i would say if you're sitting there and you're an entrepreneur and you're like or a small business um and you don't think it makes sense for your customer yet but you but nobody's activating your industry segment you should go activate your industry segment okay well if you don't know what to do how do you do it okay go join a web3 community right and so we've got

tons of individuals who are inside of jump and use jump as a learning experience and then they go activate a ton of like what they learn inside of the junk community to their own in their own way in their own interpretation of it with a totally different group of people which is thing which is fantastic and then that will give you like it's sort of like i think a b2b element right now is actually a really good approach and like trying to work with your peers and entrepreneurs and forward-thinking people um and then you'll start to you'll start to develop really strong playbooks now should people go ahead and start like

trying to bring this to their actual customer bases yes but i would start with this i would start with building a really strong community take all the web through stuff out of it right take all the wallets out of it take all the nfts out of it and go build and invest in community now if you've been around for like the last 15 years you probably heard people say community community community community and it never really panned out and a lot of that was because what did facebook do they killed organic reach they changed the models right they rudd pulled us walled gardens and so we know why

community essentially got chokehold choked out like the air got just choked out of that strategy but it's back like it's it's you know as someone who saw the last 15 years and then looking at this technology i my professional like opinion is that it's it's community is real this go around and the best thing to get ready for it um is to build a strong community because if you actually have that community layering on nfts or tokens or web3 is just gasoline absolutely

yeah but if you're starting with the nft well that's the classic mistake of oh i'm starting with the shiny object i'm not starting with the substance like you know you've gotta you gotta grill the steak before you eat it [Laughter] sounds like a true texan yeah yeah we could probably do an entire podcast just on community with you but we won't and maybe we will another time actually jeff um but i'd love to just cole's notes maybe um which i found out by the way kohl's notes i think it's just a canadian term you guys call it cliff notes i think in the u.s but uh yeah i learned this the other day yeah interesting fact um i'd love to just

hear like what are your tips on how do you create a community because most people are used to creating audiences right like on instagram and facebook and tick tock whatever these are audiences it's not a community like you said these don't really exist in the web 2 world all that well what's your sort of like like how do you create a really good engaged community any tips there i think the first thing it's a mindset shift and the first thing to creating a good community is to not care about the size of the community right that's lesson number one i don't care how big the community is it's all about feels and vibes and you have to achieve feels and vibes which is a better term for good culture because good culture is too corporate um

so yeah it's just like throw the size of the community out the door and create a real group that like you as a brand and as an entrepreneur whether you're the cmo right of a fortune 1000 company or you're an entrepreneur your time spent building this community and participating in the community should be fun it should feel fun and you shouldn't care and if you're you'll figure out like the tactics of of kind of what to do but if it feels if it doesn't feel fun one of two things is happening you might be working at the wrong company right you actually just need to change

jobs because you don't like your customers and if you're an entrepreneur if you're an entrepreneur and a cmo and like you don't enjoy the community aspect of it like you're either going about community wrong or you don't like the product and you don't like the people around it and you know what that's okay like go get a new job and go you know build a community at a place that you like so that that's that's kind of the framework and i think if you start there what you'll do is you'll enjoy you'll listen to the community you'll understand what they need and then you'll start to connect the dots between where your business can actually serve them in a way that's

beneficial to them and beneficial to your business but you're not going to do that unless you get in these like smaller settings and these intimate settings and when there's 10 000 people in a discord right like if that happens too fast then you're actually you're not going to discover that right like when you build a community you have it's just fundamental you have to start small you have to start with five people and then grow it to ten and then grow it to 20 but not double it to 40 grow it to 25.

right it's just like a slow build so i'll use them for example the very first jump meeting was a 30 person zoom call i capped it at 30 i felt like i could get on a call with 30 people these were people that just signed up right i just put it out in the world i'm starting this community there's a website with it said jump and it said request invite and it explained nothing right if you knew me you knew what it was about that's that was it that was and once 30 people signed up we had a a zoom phone call i had three of those so i talked to 90 people then we invited those 90 people into

discord and then for like six months we just chatted every thursday and we just talked and we did like this member roundtable series and pete i would just find someone in the community and i'd be like tell your story to everybody else and you know rotating casts of like 20 people would show up every thursday um and then curate some news kind of send it out and over time uh oh the other thing i did was every single person for the first 10 months that joined the community when i sent a welcome email i included a link to my calendar so i literally said you join this community you've been invited to discord

but you also can schedule a meeting with me if you want and so over the course of a year i had 700 one-on-one zoom function so when i when i say like community is as hard work and you have to enjoy it you need to enjoy like the people that you're getting to know and if you do that then you'll develop this wonderful base of people that will support you give you ideas give you feedback maybe work with you buy your products just all kinds of uh great things will come out of that yeah what i love about that it reminds me of uh we did a podcast last week with um

some of the founders of safari dao and they the line that really stuck out which i don't remember where this quote came from uh which was when you're starting community do things that don't scale first and the the the the zoom the 101 zoom call fits into that perfectly right it's it's not scalable uh do you still do the 101 zoom call no i can't because there's there's like 200 people a week joining jump so like literally my calendar can't take it so i just can't do it right but you never would have got there had you not done that first in order to build the strength of the community um

so when when you think about like building and cultivating that strong community uh one thing that i saw recently was this article that um a16z put out about go-to community versus go to market right and this idea of you know community building versus go to market how do you think about that in terms of when so many people right now are so focused on you know beans and revenue right like how do we get more people to focus on building community yep yeah so

one of the thing because i totally agree with that sort of line of thinking is go to market or go to community versus go to market um so if you're um an entrepreneur and you're building out your runway uh you know your capital your financing and all that you've got to think about this phase where you're where you're not gonna have revenue and you're investing in your community um and you know if you're building a physical product or whatever you've got a budget for that too but essentially like your marketing budget is being funneled into a community strategy right and then you've got your runway for that

um and ideally if you do that really well as you build your product and create your product and make stuff and then you're taking those marketing dollars and you're investing them in community versus like sponsorships partnerships and all of that stuff not to say that you won't do that in the future but that's not your go-to market strategy right your go to community strategies to take those marketing dollars and invest in community um so if you're a brand or an entrepreneur you know someone it has to be someone's full-time job like just that's it like you've got to find the budget to make it someone's full-time job and if you're the entrepreneur and you like to do that then you know it can pretty much be your full-time job

community building for me has been my full-time job for the last year um and but if you're not then you have to hire someone um and this needs to be almost like co-founder type you know it doesn't have to be co-founder type person if you're an entrepreneur but it needs to be dan near pretty close and if you look at the web 3 projects that that are super successful they treat their community builders um as that like upper echelon versus like if you're in coca-cola uh various large brands like we all know like the people that are in their 40s right now were the interns running community

you know 15 years ago and they did not like they got paid terrible all this stuff um so yeah it's like you've you've gotta you've gotta invest you've gotta invest and it's either your time or it's dollars into a person that's actually gonna gonna care about it um and then you just have to be okay that like the idea that that community is not going to scale into the tens of thousands or millions um in fact like you don't want it to actually you want to try to keep it small and that's okay uh because then there's this interesting thing that happens is because because the internet has this

natural network effects around it um you have the ability to take a really small group of people and influence billions and taking it back to what we talked about earlier there are 300 000 monthly active people right in trading nfts they they have cr 300 000 people have have created awareness of nfts for what 50 million people at least maybe 100 million maybe 300 million right like a thousand x their own so i firmly believe that the right like thousand people can influence 100 000 people 100 believe

that um yeah i think that's that's that's a good take on go to go to community versus go to market you will go to market like that will come but you'll go to market with your community okay you muted yeah it was just as you were talking one of the things i was thinking about is like typically in the web 2 world you like you build the product first right you're building the tech you're building the application whatever you're you're putting together all the code and then you're looking for investment and trying to go to market and in web 3 it's different you're like you're not even worried about the tech yet you're like let's just build the community let's get

the people in the right place and then it's like from there something happens you know you either you build a product from that or you get your investment because you launch a token or whatever um so it's just kind of that's just i've just seen the differences there between web 2 up to it's kind of interesting so i told you we weren't going to talk about denim but we're going to talk about denim when i launched the denim store uh again this was just a complete hobby so i was working at an agency full-time but we like to you know like to party on the weekends so what we did was we set up a denim shop that only existed on saturdays at and next to a coffee shop and we filled a fridge with beer

and me and my buddy who's co-founder but we're really just friends that want to like hang out we sat there every saturday and we just drink beer and we invite we had a good facebook page uh i mean instagram uh you know we're digital marketers so we grew this great yeah and we just invited people to come hang out and drink beer with us and enough people came and hung out and drank beer and then bought jeans that we organically from just hanging out on saturdays as a community we organically like had the demand to go invest in a five-year lease and fill an entire store with inventory

and we did it by hanging out and drinking beer unbelievable [Laughter] like if you're an entrepreneur that if you're an entrepreneur you want to validate an idea you want to get your early customers you want to find your early employers employees you want to find your business partners you want to find even your investors you just start hanging out and you know the great thing about online right now is you can you can hang out online um so i think the though the other thing to sort of make note of is you know we're talking a lot about being like an entrepreneur and getting started and all of these tactics i think it's

also extremely important if you're going to be in a community and lead a good community you need to participate in a community and be led by someone else the reason for that is one you see what it's like on your side on the other side of the equation so you have better empathy for your community members but then two if you choose the right community and the right leader you're going to learn a ton and so what i encourage a lot of people to do in web 3 for their strategy because it's so hard to keep up with so many discords or communities right if you're if you're getting into the space the first thing everybody does is they get a part of like 10 20 30

communities and then they realize they can't keep up with anything and really like between their full-time job and their family like maybe you can keep up with two communities maybe right um so what i encourage people to do is find one professional community and then one passion kind of community um now you know there are some passions out like things that people are passionate about there might not be a web free community for that okay so you're gonna have to change your passion i don't know i think most people listening to this would um are probably interested in art um or maybe maybe music there are so many web three tokenized communities um that are centered around art and

music and so you know for me there's a couple communities um quantum and proof so i'm a member of both of those and those are art based communities and so i can be a part of another community be led by incredible like entrepreneurs and leaders and i can learn from them and i can have fun while i'm doing it and then i've got my professional community and then my entrepreneurial sort of work in job right so we've we talked a lot about community and and this is community without tokens basically is what we've talked about but everybody in web3 they care about tokens

they want to know how do i launch a token how do i launch an nft this is the question i get in my dms more than anything i think um so maybe the best way to to answer this is is talking about your journey with jump but i'm interested like you built this community no token to start and you were doing all the non-scalable things you can do to build this community it sounds like how did you introduce a token like and what was the reason that that token came in because i think jump still doesn't necessarily have a product like it's not creating revenue as far as i know yet i'm sure that's coming down the road and we can discuss that but like what was the what was the purpose in introducing a token and maybe just share kind of how you went about that yep so a couple

things we have an erc20 token which is a fungible token it's not an nft um it's not liquid um so that is the only token that we've introduced in the into the community so it doesn't represent like ownership uh really we use that token as like a high five and like this we're using some like web3 tooling it's it's it feels web three um and basically anybody in the community can like tip each other and just like send each other like five jump it's just fun like to do that's that's it then there's the nft kind of component and we've actually held off on launching an nft by the time we launch the nft

we will have crossed when that first zoom call so we will have been at this uh a year um now do i think you could do it faster i don't want to put like timelines on people yeah absolutely um you know a lot of a lot of that timeline has just come down to me learning and my own kind of way um and understanding like what what kind of made sense there's a lot of behaviors in the web3 ecosystem and people copying like these drop models and trying to sell out of a token in like 10 minutes and things like that and you know we don't have to kind of go down that rabbit hole but a lot of the models that i've seen of how to bring a token to market not tech

wise but just like launch it it was everything but community because it's just the djinn flippers that are are are buying it and so you know when we introduce the the toke the nft to the junk community we are actually introducing it to a community versus trying to attract the community um and then from like a go to market strategy here's one of the things that i think a lot of people get wrong and entrepreneurs kind of just like your brain just doesn't quite work this way um typically in a business model you want to create as much margin as possible so you want to sell a product for high

produce it for as low as you can and then have this amazing margin well one on a token there's already a hundred percent margin right because there's really no cost of goods sold right we're getting bean counter talk but we got to do it um so so really you actually want to price a token as low as you possibly can right that's actually the right approach way too many people price this stuff way too high one of the reasons why you want to price it low is because it's massively speculative in terms of like is this even going to work like let's be honest there's a 90 chance if

you're trying to start something you're going to fail probably 99 chances so don't set up don't take a lot of people's money especially if you like them um and you want to get to know him and just believe me like you don't need this inflict i know it like sounds good to like drop ten thousand tokens and overnight you've raised two million dollars but like you don't need to do that um so so one like that go to market of like you want to actually get the token into your community's hand so that's why you need to build community first and then when you do it you want to price it massively low and one of the benefits uh or unlocks that web3 has is that you can put a royalty in that token so as you the business or the

entrepreneur or the creator creates value for the people holding that token then demand on that token will increase and more people will want it and you as the creator whether you're you know identify as a business creator like or an artist or something like that you'll receive a royalty off of that and so really the best strategy is to either give away the tokens for free and or uh price it really really low now other than the royalty uh aspect of it they're like why token right like i have a community and it's like like you said it's like everyone

wants to make 10 000 nfts or tokens or whatever and put them out there but like what do you see as sort of the the reason that a business should be launching these things like other than like yeah it's cool you get some branding it you know when visa buys a crypto punk they didn't launch a token but you know you get some pr as you do this stuff like what do you see as the real sort of utility or like reason that someone would do this a business would do this yep so there's two buckets there you've got and one it's a really great question um and the two buckets are um we kind of touched on it earlier how communities are a social network and that social network can travel

through the internet or in real life so url or irl so that token is a coordination mechanism that makes that community portable because of that you can layer in all this additional value around people who hold that token and ideally the value that you're creating so like oh i get to go into this vip lounge or i get a discount at this retailer and this retailer or from this brand and this brand because you're going around and you're creating all these partnerships and experiences and then it's like okay well you're a business and an entrepreneur you're like i'm not making any money i'm just like creating this like all this cool stuff for like these ten thousand people

well that's okay because these ten thousand people or one thousand people like it seriously it can be five hundred to a thousand people these are your super fans and you're giving them ownership of the social network that surrounds your brand so one thing that web3 does that uh like any new technology unlocks value where we couldn't access the value before so for a long time oil was not valuable like we had to have technology to unlock the value that oil had so for a long time we've never been able to unlock the value of the social

network around our brand or business that's what the nfts do the nfts actually unlock but the only way to unlock it is to give it to your to to to that social network that surrounds your brand and then by giving that ownership to that social network that surrounds your brand that's where you get that amplify effect where a thousand people can influence a hundred thousand people or ten thousand people can influence a million people and so the benefit to the brand is that these you know this small group of token holders are your super fans and then you as the entrepreneur of the brand you need to think bigger and

beyond just these one to ten thousand people and say so if my community is 500 people my customer base is like 5 000 right i think a a rough like 10x is a good like estimate and then you can be like of my customer base i'm going to allow 10 percent to basically and you're saying 10 because you have used like 500 tokens to freely acquire this token like you talked about in the beginning you give it away or sell it at a really low price but once it's out in the market it's tradable right and so you're basically allowing anyone

in your sphere of your customer base however you define the size of your market to say if you love my product and this community and the people that buy this product or care about this like service or whatever if you love it so much you can enter this super fandom and you can actually own your position in that super fandom by buying by buying that token from someone else and then your job as the brand or the creator is to deliver value to those people um but they're gonna give you feedback they're they're gonna be closest they're gonna you're gonna release your your products to them you're gonna you're gonna you're gonna give them you're

gonna learn from them and they're gonna benefit uh along along the way so we talk a lot about the community part of jump i'm curious to to hear a bit about the team part of jump and i don't know exactly the way you think about the team and is it just jeff as the founder you talked about at the beginning these 90 people in these first zoom calls um you know there's a lot of talk and a lot of hype around decentralization right but creating a business and building something you know in the beginning often requires centralization right and so i'm curious about the way you've

thought about building your team and maybe what lessons you've learned that you would advise to somebody else that's looking to build something uh in web 3. well uh one of the first things like to think about or go back in history is like what's the og in the space of decentralization it's bitcoin but like did bitcoin just magically appear decentralized or did it start in some person's head that person called satoshi nakamoto as the creator and who knows that might have been a group of people we don't know right and then satoshi nakamoto assuming it's a male sent that to hal finney there was no decentral he like he sent

the email to hal finney to say hey mind the first block of bitcoin there was nothing decentralized about that right and so decentralization can come over time and then there's also multiple layers of decentralization i would not get worried or wrapped up in decentralization because decentralization ultimately is a tactic to uh to help you in certain scenarios and the best example or the best framework uh for the need like when is decentralization a need is when you are in a threat like when like the government can take your

assets okay well how do we decentralize where the government can shut this thing down okay well let's decentralize it to the point where it's impossible to shut down right but if we're not worried about stuff like that then decentralization becomes this lever that starts to get in our way and then if we're talking about typically marketers and entrepreneurs and creatives i like to think of like an entrepreneur more like a musician uh it's its own form of artistic kind of creation um you don't like go to some like brilliant musician and like let us let the fans create the next outline you don't do that like the fans actually want the musician to create the thing and then deliver value

and so i think that the the a really good model that's going to fit for a lot of people is this parent of centralization and decentralization where you have a decentralized community and a decentralized autonomous community and they can even be an organization to a certain degree like you can feed a budget or to just do whatever they want with but it's decentralized and it's autonomous meaning anybody can enter by buying or selling the nft whenever they want so that's autonomous it's decentralized meaning uh i don't own someone else's position the the creator doesn't own my

my place in this community only i own like what is so ownership in that sense is decentralized and so if you can achieve you you've achieved something great you've decentralized ownership into this into a social network that surrounds your brand and it's autonomous meaning anybody can enter at any point and so um your job as an entrepreneur's creator is to be empathetic to listen but at the end of the day like you have a creative and artistic vision and you should like keep pushing on that and you should allow the people that are attracted to that to find their way in and a lot and this is the autonomous part and allow

the people that aren't attracted to that to find their way out so um i want to zoom out just a second here and and maybe this is as we begin to wrap up this conversation but i kind of want to zoom out you talked about how web 3 really like unlocks the community like value to the community which i think is super cool uh nft's tokens they sort of enable that um but like overall let's say in the future like where do you think that this goes like what else does this unlock like right now a lot of things we see like let's say board at yacht club is one of the best examples of unlocking value to a community obviously um but the things that they're going is like we're gonna build a video game we're going to film a movie with coinbase like these are still

somewhat skeuomorphic they're not really this like completely evolutionary like revolutionary like changing everything about business kind of thing that you might expect something as big as web 3 will do i don't know if you've thought this far into it but is there something like that you've thought to like five ten years where just everything changes like what does that look like to you or do you have any thought on that yeah so okay so i'm at first when you started answering the question or asking the question i was like oh gosh i'm not going to have a good answer to this you you gave me enough time to think about it so so we're talking a lot about community and organizing people and aligning incentives and so if those are

like some some of these guiding principles and we think about how peop how ownership and incentives and community change i think that uh and and i'm i'm not this is not necessarily from completely from my brain but biology if you do follow biology at all of course yeah okay of course um so he would be the person to like go deep on this subject with and try to find all of his um sort of thinking and he's one of those people that can be like okay i can take this 10 to 15 years out into the future but there's this idea of what he calls a network state i think it's like network city makes more sense to me or just like

some sort of like city graph where like we're used to thinking of oh i live in dallas or i live in uh whatever like denver whatever city and i'm confined by this kind of geographical space and my ownership is actually kind of in this uh tiny little space um i think that like we're gonna essentially have these network cities where you'll own your place in the community you won't necessarily own the actual property that you live in but that community will own property that's physically distributed and it's kind of like this city and you can

bounce from location to location and now that we're working remote it makes it even easier and so you can show up to any geographical location and instantly have like a place to stay that you actually own you're not paying necessarily uh rent or you might be paying the similar to the way you pay down your mortgage you might be paying in that sense but the same way that you can own your house outright and just pay taxes i think that you'll be able to do that and basically be able to you know depending on what network city that you actually live in be able to travel all over the world so where that sort of goes even future

i think that the largest companies and projects in the world will own massive real estate and by working for yuga labs as an employee you will essentially have ownership uh because you own a coin at a certain level of a coin you'll be able to have property rights in the physical world and all your food will be free as well and like we start to get towards this like i own my place in the community and that community actually owns physical real world stuff that i have

access to and yeah i mean i think we've we saw early versions of like google and facebook trying to create this where they create these like big large tech comp uh campuses and all the employees come in they don't they basically stay there 24 7. there's many like apartments and you know lodging and they get all their food for free and there's something about what they were trying that like made sense but wasn't quite possible i think tokens because they unlock a new type of capital and value actually create enough abundance in the world that your ownership inside of these communities means access to

all your physical real world needs you ended up with a great answer and actually i was i was talking with um david who we had on the uh this podcast uh a few weeks ago about this as well and he was like um it's kind of similar to like if you're a google employee you have a card and you can like go to any one of the google offices which they're in like all the big cities all around the world and he's like you go in you scan your card it opens up you've got food for the day you have a community of people who are like somewhat in similar interest because you work at the same place um you already probably know these people because you're in slack with them whatever and he was like that's kind of where this could all go is that but

obviously in a more ownership as you said in a way where you actually own this stuff because as an employee for google you don't own anything in the moment they want to ask you like all that all that goes away exactly that's the huge difference and we're all like even though we say like we're talking pie in the sky and stuff like this go look at a project called quantum and if you own the quantum key right now on full disclosure i own a quantum key um but one of the reasons why i bought it is because i was super excited they're the first location that they're building this art studio and sort of just like hangout space in la if you hold the quantum key you can go hang out in this place you're not an employee

you're just like a member and like you own that slot and you can sell that key to anyone at any point so yeah there's this ownership layer so i think that owning a board 8 if you go successful owning a board 8 or owning a certain amount of yeah i think it's probably going to be the nft it won't be a certain amount of acorn but i could see a world where if you own a board eight you literally can stay for free and like live in the board a like ecosystem of like housing real world house so interesting incredible so last question from me jay maybe you have another question after this um but just to to wrap up i'm curious uh since we're still zoomed out here

walk us through where you think jump is gonna go in five ten years like maybe you don't have a plan yet and you're like let's see what the community does but i'm sure at night when you're trying to sleep you're thinking okay we could do this we could do this and whatever like what's on your mind for jump in in the next five ten years so we definitely have the aspect of like what does the community want to do and what ideas do the community have and then i also reserve like i'm a creative person and i'm a creator myself and and i get to create right so there's kind of two things at play here once we launch our nft there's essentially right that's the platform everybody that holds the token

is the platform right so i will build benefits and resources and tools and all this stuff for those that hold the token in reality anyone can do that it's permissionless right like the the hardest thing is gaining the trust of the these token holders and being like hey hey i built something for you come over here and experience the thing that i built like that's the hard part so you know when i think about five to ten years down the line i'm going to constantly be in my own creative way building for this group of token holders um i hope that the

community will take my sort of example and say you know what it would be really beneficial to me like i want i have a business idea right but rather than me like starting from scratch why don't i piggyback off of the junk community because like your business idea makes sense and i'm like cool like i'm actually because of the way tokens align incentives i don't care right normally the business would say don't touch my like don't don't don't come create like touch my customer base or my community but actually when because of the token model i don't care because any additional benefits that someone else

builds on top actually benefits the entire community which makes them happy which i like a happy community because i'm trying to build for a happy community and then the more i can bring in people that want to do that then i can go establish those partnerships and go oh yeah i think i think the junk community would love this so i'm going to help sort of introduce you to the junk community and you build on top of them and that's great and then that kind of gives that entrepreneur that creator they could come from inside the community they could be someone outside of the community but that gives them a starting point and maybe some of my community members that are sort of in jump will also then buy their token whenever that comes down the

line oh guess what i'll probably buy the token too right like you see how all of the incentives can like align everybody so i'm like you know what anybody out there i'm going to do my thing i'm going to create my value which basically is like what i'm good at i'm good at analysis i'm good at strategy good at research so i'm going to do all of those things and i'm going to provide that for free to the community but there's a lot of things that i'm not good at and hopefully others will come in and add that value and i'd be more than happy for them to do that and then help them launch their own token and i'll be the first one to buy it

it's it's such a an important part of the sort of the ethos of web3 that i think um doesn't get talked about enough is composability and collaboration and and it's you know i think we we get caught up in the speculation and and the you know the massive opportunity to make money right now and a lot of people are so focused on that but at the same time we're building an entire entire new way to work entirely way to collaborate which enables us to do things from from really like a value-based standpoint where you can come together

with people who want the same thing as you and you don't have to worry so much i mean kyle and i talk about this all the time maybe at some point you don't have to worry about the legal side as much right because oh wow it's just it's token that we all have access to and there's value for you and there's value for me and forget the lawyers you get some tokens i get some tokens we all win right uh so i think there's and that sort of gets into why we're moving so fast in the space right i mean the pace and time it's a it's a total time warp of i mean the way you even talked about it from you know what two years and here we are yeah it it it's moving fast because it unlocks that value and it gives us an

element and really like human like from a human nature like we understand this like when you own a house you you like typically treat your neighbor like pretty good right because you own property next to you right and then there's this like network effect of like coordination we're all gonna drive on the same like we're all gonna obey the same like road laws we're all gonna like behave a certain way even though like it doesn't benefit you in that like well it does benefit you in that in that moment but the reason that innate human coordination and collaboration and composability in our

in our physical world the reason it happens is because we have ownership of things and when you go look at countries or nations where there's no ownership what do you get mass chaos and so from a digital perspective we've never had ownership and so we what do what do we get we get just like twitter rage we get facebook great and all this other stuff because nobody owns stuff so like i want to own my neighbor's token or at least provide value to their token as they provide value to my token right and it creates this like shared incentive that we're not actually like

we're it's not like we've never experienced that we experienced that in our everyday lives for the most part if you live in a nation where ownership exists yeah all right well i think we're going to have to wrap up here because we've taken we've got way over time but man this has been fun jeff i hope we can do a part two uh maybe after uh the future launch of uh the nft or whatever happened to the jump um but before we wrap up i want to give you a quick opportunity to give your show where can people find you online how can people join jump uh we'll put some links in the show notes but please take the floor absolutely so on twitter i'm at jf kaufman jr uh and then uh for jump it's

join jump dot community so if you want to join the community just head there fill out the application i send out um we i get like 500 to 700 a week so like i i go through every single one of them one by one uh literally look at every single individual linkedin profile so it takes me about a week to go through everything so once a week i welcome new people in so give me a little bit of time there if you're listening to this in a few months that process will change with kind of the restructuring of the nft but uh yeah that's that's it this has been fun thanks for having me

jeff amazing amazing conversation thank you so much and uh can't wait to get you back on we'll we'll probably go for two hours on the next one though let's do it all right well all the best with jump and uh and excited to see where things go with jump and and just in general with web3 so thanks for for joining and and all the best man all right thank you signing off cheers thank you for listening to web3 academy we hope this helps you along your web3 journey if it does please share this episode and subscribe so you don't miss the next one by the way if you have yet to join the discord community you are missing out this is where all the magic happens this is where we learn where we ask questions where we network uh you want to be in there the link to join is

in the description below and finally a quick disclaimer nothing in this podcast was financial advice crypto and web3 can be risky you can literally lose it all in fact if you invest on account of what we say you probably will lose it all so don't do that in all honesty the point of this podcast is to remove the noise of markets and price and focus on utility implementation anyway so you should not take any of this as financial advice thank you friends and see you in the next one