Shiv Malik : How the EU data governance act will transform data on Web3

Transcript

hi uh my name is shiv malik i am the ceo of pool i'm just going to bring up my slides just give me a sec okay um and uh yeah look i obviously would have loved to have been there in person uh i was actually due to come to paris and obviously the uk government sort of changed the rules and then couldn't come but a big fan of fcc and have been coming for a couple of years and in fact the last conference i went to was in fact fcc last year in march uh so that was going to be a nice way of rounding off the pandemic uh by attending again and this being my first conference after that long very

long extended period um but let you let me tell you a little bit about myself i'm an author a broadcaster um and uh and actually a former investigative journalist for the guardian for several years um i've been in web 3 since very early 2017. uh i guess that makes me almost a veteran now so uh and formally work with streamer and the golem project which i'm sure many will of you will know about um and uh i recently started pool to enable this vision uh which you can see on your screen which is data controlled by those who create it and and what we do is and i'll come on to this uh a bit later we support data

unions to grow we support data unions to grow i'll explain what ada union is about shortly but i want to talk to you about data data unions and actually the new eu legislation which is the data governance act and the digital markets act and what all of this means for web three because there's a lot of opportunities in a sense to be seized and i don't think there are actually any actually any fans here of kind of web two laws and regulations and then actually i'd count myself in that group too um but you know the what is being in a sense presented here is a really huge opportunity uh for web3 to seize upon what are those opportunities in short

and i'll go through them shortly uh more web three native apps that sounds good uh more secondary adoption of crypto sounds even better a real-time data capabilities for decentralized uh platforms and applications and god we know you know we need that uh more dows if you like dials well you can get more of them uh and more use cases so in short well more of well you know everything really so uh but first off i need to explain i think two things the first thing is what is a data union and what is this new eu legislation that i'm about to tell you about that will so enable a new data economy in web 3. so what's a data union well data union is an organization that

aggregates data from creators into a single product and when that data product sells that value is shared between its members and the operators of the union it's a new model if you want for data buyers to purchase real-time streams of raw data from people who actually want it to be used right a lot of you obviously will know uh about you know to come from the kind of privacy angle of things but you know the one flaw with that view of the world and that technical vision of the world as well is that it doesn't allow you to share data right it's got it's very good at saying that framework is very good at saying i'm not going to share my information i'm going to share my data but actually you know human beings are uh

socio-centric people uh or or entities we like to share information that's why we're at this conference right we're sharing information we're not actually privacy centric in a sense so we we need to find ways to share and sharing things digitally means sharing data and information in this way so uh on the data union point they actually already exist i'll tell you a bit more about them shortly but mozilla has already documented at least 40 plus organizations sort of data unions data cooperatives those using alternative governance models for their data so what is this miracle legislation that is supposed to do a world of good for web three shiv you might be asking well it's known as the the dga the data

governance act and also there's a there's actually a slew of uh legislative bills coming through the european parliament as i think four in all there's three on the books and there's a fourth one coming down the line um they all have wonderful acronyms so there's a but we're going to focus on two or one and a half really the the data governance act and the dma the digital markets act um so what are they well let's just focus on the digital uh the data governance act for a second uh and some background i've been you know i was working away actually uh from about may onwards a late april may uh during that sort of first lockdown in the pandemic if you want with uh radical exchange

and my data global and and and a few others to help shape the data governance act itself it was a really interesting revolutionary process if you've not been involved in sort of policy making or shaping and then it's certainly an experience a really great experience actually that we went through with with those in brussels um and it's expected to be on the books uh at the end of this year so it's made its way through most of the parliamentary elements you know the kind of the the the the parliament itself and then you know parliamentarians knocked it back and forth uh and the other two elements of brussels bureaucracy the commission and oh god now i forgot the other one but you know what i mean um

so what are the elements to highlight well the first bit is that it manages this new framework for data sharing right sort of europe basically got fed up and said okay look how are we going to share data let's just devise some kind of legislative framework for this it creates a new data innovation board the dma digital markets act actually gives users one of the providers in that so it gives users real-time portability over their data right real-time portability of the data from certain gatekeepers as they're known in the legislation which means the big uh tech and silica valley tech companies i.e gaffer so you can now port your data not just uh under gp dprs you can do now 30 days write an email that kind of thing and then you get it in a json format

file which isn't very good for most people you can now ask for it from an api and that really is a game changer it also the governance act gives legal status to data cooperatives and unions or intermediaries they're all basically the same thing they're called different names but they're the same thing at the moment and it also finally opens up about two billion euros in funding to get all of this off the ground so it you could say sure look in many ways it sounds as boring as right but that point about creating dead unions and funding them is what i've been in a sense working on now for about three and a half years and it's actually amazing from certainly from my perspective to see it come to fruition and the point is that legal status legal

status means that these data unions these data intermediaries and data cooperatives get recognized and they start to become the default organization at the right at the heart of the data economy in europe that's very exciting so let me just drill down into two specific provisions of the data governance act uh which really needs a kind of a bit more drilling into if you want um so the first one is the the fiduciary duties right uh what does that mean it means that these data unions will have a legal obligation to put their members first right so they won't be just like other organizations where they say oh we have users they'll have members right and they have to represent those members and like

lawyers or accountants or other kind of you know professions for the first time in the data economy will have some professionalism brought in and you have to represent your members you have a legal obligation a fiduciary one to do so the second thing is that they must only sell raw data right and this is also really fascinating because actually a lot of the daily unions when hang on if we can only sell raw data we can't do the thing where the money is right currently you know data which is analytics currently data is silo because essentially companies want to capture that analytics right so you know the model works like this you go out and try and get data from wherever you can by hook or by crook and often by both means usually by spying on users in some way

or another uh using all the devious means that you can uh in essence sort of you know cookies or sdks you know you built into your uh um you sell an sdk that gives you the data back on on whatever specific things usually geolocation data et cetera et cetera uh and then once you've got all that raw data then you sell the analytics on top right which obviously means that the business model works that you don't then sell that raw data to anyone else because you'd lose your edge as an analytics company but what this actor said is that no i'm not to do that anymore we can these data units can only sell raw data if they want to sell analytics they have to set up a sister company which doesn't have a fiduciary duty to its members right um now effectively what you're doing

here in europe is that they're creating an independent raw data layer and that's really really exciting right an independent raw data here what does that what does that really mean in essence it means that the the first of all the overall potential market that's always been there but it's never been recognized it's never been fulfilled right that demand has never been fulfilled because of that siloam effect that overall potential market for retailing raw data will just grow massively right as a whole host of buyers for example app builders or hedge funds or researchers or ai and machine learning companies or public bodies all of these people they all want raw data they just can't get it uh they'll be end finally able to enter that raw data market and service their needs um which as i said simply doesn't exist now

uh and and and the other point is that under this model they're kind of raw data uh data unions will end up likely being a highly dominant player right so once you realize that first part that the law will say well you can only sell raw data great then and you realize that all this demand is going to be realized which isn't being realized currently then you kind of put two and two together anyways all right data unions are going to be the thing that's the kind of central foundation layer of this new data economy and a vital building block to all of this right so you end up with this kind of vision uh of today and tomorrow so what's today personal data is a byproduct of digital activities and poor quality right no app really asks you hey look we want to share your data

let's do this they just obfuscate that process and provide you with a different service right it's harvested without explicit consent and that has created obviously huge ethical issues it's locked up in silos as i mentioned cookies in it for actually being terminated so that whole model is actually on the way out um and uh oh it has been revised right legislation will also then kill that current paradigm right with the data governance act and other pieces of privacy legislation that are already enacted or about to be enacted around the world uh what does tomorrow's vision look like well you have a new regulatory framework that creates trusted data brokering organizations right and that independent or data market for personal data web three micro payments we'll come up

with this in second and smart contracts we think will enable explicit user consent right to scale the share and reward data sales model in the daily unions that i talked about and finally consumer data is the product right now you can say okay look um let's put data unions models at the heart of data economies and we can just ask people right do you want to share great if you do that's excellent we'll reward you for that and you'll because we've got a fiduciary duty to you you are the customer that we provide value to in essence right okay so what does all of this mean for web3 right you've got a flavor of that with the micropayment stuff but like surely it's more than that otherwise you wouldn't be giving this talk so uh uh and why do we innocence care

about the legislation and if you want what has legislation ever done for us right in the crypto community might ask that question well there's that outlook in crypto and actually i agree with it that legislation is at best a distraction and at worst it's actually actively hostile roadblock to crypto right it's sort of challenging that power of a decentralized future um but you know legislative machines aren't all one beast um you know they have uh contradictory aspects to them um it's it's wrong to think that it's sort of a single monolith with one objective in mind you get good legislation and bad legislation and this happens to be i

think quite good for web three why well um and it's also as i said it's on the table it's due to be passed so either way how does web 3 utilize it right what are the new opportunities well the first one is more web 3 native apps second more dows third more secondary adoption of crypto more unsilo data uh and uh and that means actually giving real-time capabilities for decentralized platforms and more use cases so i want to go through these now one by one okay let's talk about more dabs more apps more taps more work three apps um we actually have data unions being built

and scaled right now right so if you don't know about them then you should because they're in our ecosystem and they're very exciting uh and interesting fascinating uh entities uh obviously something i've been working on for for many years so maybe i would say that but um but i think they are the next hot thing if you want after d5 after nfts this is this is where we go next um some are not quite web3 native um and have transitioned into adopting tokens right so then they start to become a bit sort of web 3 web 3 kind of you know interoperable at least and others are in fact web 3 native and i would put swash in that category so let me just go through each one well geodb some of you might know actually the geodb crew

they've turned up at conferences before they do geolocation and they're actually trying to expand their business model to do other what's known as fm cg fast moving consumer goods uh i.e integrating people taking pictures of their receipts and and then using that matching that with your location data right kind of interesting but again basic data union share your information we will pay you they have their own token they did a token raise as well if they're not mistaken um but they certainly got funding of 2.4 million just on the equity side and the regular traditional raise they've got about 200 000 users and the total addressable market in the geolocation space is about 11 billion so they've got a long way to to go but there's a lot of pie to eat in

essence um even if it doesn't grow tap tap my data did a token uh sale back in i think late december early january uh they do general consumer data they try to use gdpr rules to get static files on uh and then uh you know if users want they obviously are there to um then send off for those files and put them into a kind of data wallet if you want uh which is then shared with people if they also then consent to that uh they've got about funding of around a million plus uh they've got around nine thousand users last time they looked again total addressable market for their kind of information about 1.5 billion and finally swash uh well swash is a browser plug-in

um so the other two are kind of mobile apps uh swash is a browser plug-in it does browser analytics right so it does essentially what google already does it collects on you kind of your or cookies except that this time around it's your journey that's been tracked and you want it to be the case and you get paid for that right uh they've got about 60 000 users now 60 000 users that's pretty big for web three obviously pretty small for web too um but you know they're scaling on a shoestring uh which is fascinating watching that they've got a quarter of a million three quarters of a million in funding uh but they're doing a big raise at the moment um and that's they want to raise tens of millions on that and again their total addressable market is about 4.4 billion potentially even

higher when they start integrating other things into that browser analytics journey so these are the consumer-facing apps um and as i said within some cases they've got tens of thousands of members and it's actually not simply a replication of what's already there in web 2 right everyone's like oh just make you know uber in web 3. right decentralized uber decentralized airbnb this is actually a different set of use cases web 2 can't really replicate this and that's very exciting um and and why can't web 2 replicate this well it's web 3 that's enabling this with micro payments right specifically i think through you know the two platforms that can do this very well layer two solutions are xdy and matic um uh because you need ultimately you need to be able to uh in order to

share revenue with people the best way to do it is to scale with with web3 micropayments right rather than using the fiat banking system which isn't scalable um and the charges are too high for those micropayments but new features will also you know that are being built now with all these things using utilizing more interesting aspects of web3's developing tech set if you want for example or bonding curves for for paying users who join earlier more rather than the ones who join later right or fascinating stuff so legislation will supercharge all of this uh so it will put kind of to use as i said right at the heart of this new data economy uh dues being daily unions and i predict that most of them actually will all be

in essence web3 native because of that uh scalability problem or solution that you find with web three okay the union says downs right this is also interesting um do you need a dating to be run in a centralized way no you don't uh it's got a really clear revenue model sell more data make more money i think that's pretty helpful for dao right just sets the mission right straight it's inherently a cooperative institution right so it isn't you know it's there to service its members its members are part inherently of supplying uh value um because sharing their data right without them there's nothing there so i think that also requires obviously good governance

i think that also sort of sets the framework for for a doubt and it's probably not a pure down uh in the sense that it's just a website that you turn up at in this in essence or just a platform and everything's just done through there without people carrying out work right uh and anyway the the notions of dows being pure downs now i think have been really refined and you realize you know you're gonna have task allocation and people actually doing work right and actually the involvement of most people will be pretty limited but you know it's sort of like a mutual or insurance mutual if you want i think those are the kinds of dowels that will be dating his du downs if you want dude outs uh to coin the phrase um will succeed at uh third thing more secondary adoption of

crypto right that's always a good thing it sounds like a good thing um jet unions increase the numbers of people with access to crypto right in a really interesting way because you don't need to buy this you don't need to go on an exchange and kyc yourself and credit cards and passports and all that other right it's really simple you just share your data and you get paid because you're already doing work right and or you download a browser plugin right you're sharing your data through your browser great you get paid you get crypto small amounts of crypto but you're in right you're in and once you've already got lots of people 60 000 in case of swash right with

small amounts of like a couple of dollars worth of crypto great then what can you do with that and i think this is where it gets really interesting so that's why the picture of the wall street journal is there um because you know with my old sort of media hat on um i can see this is a perfect secondary use case right unlocking payballs no one likes payables right no one likes the demand that you have to pay 15 pounds or 15 or 20 a month or whatever it is to subscribe to read one article i don't want to subscribe to anything for a whole month just to read one article maybe it's four over a month right but that's not a great trade-off i just want to pay for the article great if i've got small amounts of crypto already there because i've already been

given it because i'm already doing work digitally speaking great i can see how this all gets enabled off of data unions right to start with the right premise join a daily union get access to this kind of micro payments world that's great um two more points with a raw data layer i think web3 goes real time right this is really interesting so web3 apps can now start to buy in if you want streams of real-time data and this actually applies also to web 2 apps right they need scaling uh and let me explain that point a little bit right take the geolocation example this is why google maps is up there we all remember perhaps uh google maps when

it was static it was just maps right it's just a map application it wasn't anything else um you know but like you know the a to z is what we call it in london just like on a computer uh and then of course it became real time right after a while because they scaled and i got you know 20 30 million users in the uk whatever and globally hundreds of millions and it became real time um to challenge that now right you need to be able to be real time to start with and of course you can't get there until you've got all the users imagine you can just port in real-time streams of information from a geolocation data union right it's just there for anyone to purchase right and then suddenly your app your map app is in real time that's great um so you can imagine doing that with

lots of different types of data sets that are in real time right across the web3 space and why is this particularly beneficial for web three well actually most of what's being done here is using sort of ethereum private public key systems so it'll be totally interoperable with the ethereum uh space right the web three ethereum space uh and you know the other point about that is that daily unions with hundreds of thousands of members can actually act then as oracles right that's really interesting right these are the new oracles if you want um which are much you know if you if you take um probabilities and risks rather than absolute certainties um you can start to get a much higher rate of accuracy and all

sorts of other types of data right which won't otherwise have um perfect truths to them and that's really fascinating and interesting and obviously everyone knows we need oracles uh to power lots of decentralized applications otherwise uh because you don't want sen truths being centralized as they are currently so uh last point uh before perhaps explaining a bit of what paul is doing and then moving to questions um so daily news and defy uh let me explain a little bit about that um so let me give this example of unbanks right and i think this is perhaps out of

all the things i've spoken about the most interesting example uh unbanks is actually a startup um working off of the streamer platform at the moment and it's a daily union with a psd2 license right so it's an open banking license pretty it's not too difficult to obtain one of those things and it pulls their financial transaction data people's transaction transaction data in real time actually there's a bench in belgium belgic example of this um belgium sorry god it is too late it's too hot where i am in london uh a belgian example of this which is cake uh so they do the same thing as well now imagine having all of that financial transaction

data uh except you're using you know a web3 based system using ethereum private property keys and you're now storing it right let's say in a in a personal data vault as well right so you're sending your stream off to the data union and that gets aggregated there's privacy control that's great you take that same stream with the privacy controls attached or kind of modified through that schema and you store it in your own little vault right imagine if you're adding in all sorts of other things into there as well like your browsing analytics from squash right so you've got your own personal replica of all the data union data that you're sending off well you also keep a copy of it in your own little personal data vault pdb great that becomes really fascinating so it becomes one way of solving for

sovereign identity right because who what is your sovereign urgency if not your digital footprint right in many ways great uh it also becomes another way of then interacting with defy right so you've got your financial transaction data great you can get good credit sampling from that can't you right um and then if you opt in then you can get your credit check but also you can get issuance from a d5 platform in seconds right that platform can go all right we can lend you money because this is what your financial status and your credit rating is uh that is really fascinating right that's what that's the next big move in d5 right it's actually lending money uh to people without them putting in more money to like 150 of what they want to to loan

as a as an asset then it gets really serious right you can do and replicate what web 2 does or what the banks do now for hundreds of years in a much much quicker fashion and you don't have banks controlling at all that is really fascinating um okay so maybe before we get to questions i'll just explain oops what pool is um what our job is in in all of this ecosystem uh as i said i've been working on dus now for nearly four years and i've been um spotting those common problems right between them all um they come up again and again and again and if you're a daily union builder you don't want to be building the same thing again and again like and you don't want

to be building for example a marketplace right or payment rails messaging networks um and there's certain other things that really help galvanize an ecosystem like a common token between them all um by the way that isn't the pool token uh we're just gonna use usdc which i think makes a lot of sense uh when paying members because they can do a lot more with it when they have it right uh and a common wallet right that does discovery for everyone that's great that's great so where pool acts as an infrastructure base layer for data unions um and uh make it easy to manage them from creation through the data aggregation payment and engagement right we focus on these three areas creating data unions managing them with tools and uh and then also helping to facilitate their trading

with the marketplace for deadline product discovery convenient payment and invoicing capabilities here's a bit of an architectural overview you've got your daily union members on the left-hand side they interact with the system in essence through those data union application interfaces they're copying that data to a personal data vault um and by the way tim berners-lee has been working on the personal databall aspect of all of this and um with the solid project and that's really fascinating stuff because it's open source and that could be something that pool uses um goes through your messaging network and then you have your marketplace on the right-hand side of and then of course the payment

network is all uh based on smart contracts and micropayments um perhaps using matec or xdi as a solutions for layer 2 right scalability so you've got the side chain issues yay um and finally we have that kind of nudity wallet interface which is really interesting imagine you could have one wallet to kind of discover and manage all of your data unions that you join right that's really fascinating okay so conclusion looking at two uh we've got about 15 minutes left uh so we've got some time but um actually you know what if you've got 15 minutes i'm going to go back slightly and just explain those elements so you've got as i mentioned the unitary wallet and the data vault they come together

it's um we've been working together uh as a founding team trying to put together specs for that it's been really fascinating you know what are the kind of motivators for for having something like this what are the different aspects what are the different privacy controls you can actually add into that what does the data vault look like who can read it all of this sort of fascinating stuff um that we're grappling with and also talking to um the big advertising ecospheres and saying look what do you want from this as well right so if people say yeah i want to consent to have this on and searchable what does that look like for advertisers right what do they want out of the system too um and and that helps it's just one part of the puzzle but it's actually a

really central part of moving away from a surveillance right analytics and advertising industry an economy to a consent based one which is if you talk at those higher levels like everyone realizes yeah that's where we've got to go now which is great to hear but no no one's utterly no one solved it as yet but um i think this gives the solution um so and then we have the messaging network and the du payments contract that's just a smart contract a solidity smart contract nothing fancy really um which puts payment between those various different elements you know pool itself our business models that we just take five percent uh and we're basically investing that back in uh if you have the pool token you can stake that against a discount

against that fee um and uh uh and then the daily operators and then the members themselves right so those are the kind of main three constituents to spilling that payment coming in from the buyers and once they purchase those data union products um also had to deal with fiat to crypto conversion which is obviously great fun um ramp uh have been you know imported so we'll be working on solutions for this um but basically data buyers they're not interested in paying with tokens uh they will pay obviously in fiat and so how do you then distribute that into crypto uh part of the reason why we're using usdc is because it makes that a lot easier

um you're not sitting there with all that volatility and risk on your own head uh if you're doing this um but that also means widely by the way you end up getting potentially billions in fiat coming from enterprises and getting converted into crypto right that's a nice way to transition a lot of fear money into web three right um also providing static and real-time data you've got to be able to do both ultimately um people still work in static data files uh when it comes to analytics uh so but the reno the the way to build for this stuff is to build real time because you can always convert down into static uh you can't go from static to real time

and finally you know we've got that marketplace discovery you know hopefully we'll have hundreds of daily union products um in a few years time maybe in a year or two or a year and a half if we're really uh lucky uh and you know people want a place to discover all of that you don't want data buyers going to daily unions individually um because that's not gonna work you want one place to in a sense have that conversation about what products you want okay so conclusion um l-kind eu data regulation allows real-time data portability and codifies data union organizations as trusted business models right and that

eu ecosystem funding is expected to be around two billion so you've got that's the legislative play right uh the data governance act helps create that broad data layer the digital markets act helps create real-time portability right a really big deal third point to make or to conclude on data unions are largely web 3 native organizations that will prosper due to that legislation and finally expect to see a new web 3 data economy flourish right more daps more dows web 3 goes real time and this certainly aids it uh and more

use cases such as defy and data unions and finally obviously pool is a a base layer infrastructure layer at the heart of all of this all right thank you so much um i think i've got about 10 minutes for questions i don't know if we can do questions um but i'll stop sharing my slides uh one second it might take a little while um

okay great yeah you mean under gdpr uh uh ultimately there's lots of different ways about protecting data privacy and then also just complying to gdpr um so each first of all in essence pool isn't a data processor so that's the first thing to to to recognize um but we help set what we're calling go pets right governance um privacy ethics and security um and it's great when you have a common

framework for everyone uh the second um party that helps does this is the delians themselves right they obviously have to comply with gdpr uh but also they have moral uh and other privacy concerns that they and so you can all do really smart things right so with the financial transaction data stuff you know there's pretty standard procedures like you synthesize the data uh so you just like instead of saying you know shiv malek spent you know 78 pence on this uh uh you or some teams sorry um you you you make it 78 uh 79 right or 81 even so it's not like fundamentally different in terms of the data accuracy and then you exclude my name from it

right so there's loads of different techniques and privacy techniques you can you can do to get the aggregate data sets that don't identify individuals when it comes to the personal data vault slightly different but then the last layer if you want to protection is also the legislation right uh and there's the the the data innovation board the data and europe itself um and the regulation that will inevitably follow uh to govern the practices of dead indians so there's sort of lots of layers in all of that um and uh i'm glad actually the legislation's coming along as the ecosystem grows because it stops it being a wild west i hope that answers your question

great okay um this is the one great outstanding question um [Laughter] and actually there's no good way to answer if you look at the literature um some of them say oh it'll i mean the most skeptical people say you know it'll be a couple of dollars every year uh those at the right the top uh then say it'll be twenty thousand dollars a year

uh and that's you know uh jaron lanier and glenn weil put out a paper and hopper's business review saying they think that it'll be that uh there's you know and then of course there's a bunch of answers in the middle none of which has a very good model um so how most people model it is that look they go look what's facebook worth how many users does it have divide the worth or the annual revenue by the users and then you get an answer and that's not a very good answer either um because that's just actually just one data set isn't it so what happens when you do two things one is you start to combine people's data right so you get it and facebook's probably one of the hardest actually to do so let's just take you know browser analytics and financial transaction data and maybe

geolocation right when you've got all three data sets right or imagine a data union that has people's netflix data and their itunes data and their amazon prime data and now you've got uh you know from an industry point of view that is worth far more than just having netflix which you can't even get right so you're maximizing the kind of potential here by growing the pie and the possibilities right uh and and and the second point on that is then you're also increasing because that raw data layer just the number of people you can now sell to right at the moment everything's very narrow selling to a very small group of people um uh who actually don't like to talk about buying it because it's like basically under the table it's a bit

like like weed was in colorado not very long ago right it's all like hush-hush but it was happening uh that's what the data economy is at the moment so when you add trust when you add uh legislation and you give legitimacy plus you add all these other kind of use cases then you don't know i think it's a reasonable step to say you know it could be ten twenty dollars a month um and uh that's doing a little bit of modeling that we did but it's not very good uh you know i'll put my hands up and say that so we're we're going to commission a study uh but that could take a year from proper economists to actually look at it one last thing to say on that is that there was a study commissioned by the uk government that said if there was

full data portability right it would add this is in 2018 28 billion or 29 billion to the economy of the uk alone that's a pretty healthy chunk so it's also the social ad that people get from everything else right good well i'm glad i left some time for questions uh and look thank you for for everyone for coming uh is there another question is that it okay um and and i can't actually see the room at the moment um

but um i'm sure it's packed or maybe there's four people there uh but i'm really sad that i can't be embarrassed myself i would love to met you all i'm not impressive oh i lost you at the end okay well anyway um really enjoyed giving a talk and thank you so much for having me and accommodating my lack of inability to travel due to the british government thank you so much thanks a lot bye-bye you