Season 4 - Ep. 2 - Direct-to-Contract Incentives W/ Brian Flynn

Transcript

welcome to the green pill. network podcast if you're just joining us we are building a coordination a network Society of thousands of hackers dreamers and doers focus on using crypto to bring positive some digital systems to the world this podcast features the people who are doing it and we published a season of five to 10 episodes every couple months this season is about lean mean Capital allocation machines Capital allocation is the process of deciding how to spend or invest Financial Resources to maximize returns and with web 3 we can now maximize not just Financial returns but achieve impact equals profit ecosystem growth public goods funding protopia we can re achieve all the things with incentives and capital allocation how can we build cryptoeconomic systems that precisely allocate Capital allocation at scale and

what are the coolest experiments these are the themes of green pill season 4 lean mean Capital allocation machines one special thing we are doing this season is allowing you to collect this episode all episodes this season are available on chain you can go to pods.com medgreen pill and start collecting shout out to our top collectors JT nickel. eth how. eth Simons sd. zerx lucas. eth sky. eth shanw br. eth and MMA on chain. eth as well as James dth thanks for supporting the green pill. network podcast if you want to learn more about green pill you can visit our website at Green pill.

Network where you can download the green pill book for free and become a member of your local green pill. Network chapter all right well our guest today is Brian Flynn he is the CEO of boost Studios and a part of the core team at Boost XYZ he is the founder and CEO at rabbit hole which is a contributor to Quest protocol and an early hire at openc in Dapper Labs Ryan's been an innovator in the space for quite a while and we are on this green pill episode going to be talking about using crypto to solve large scale Global coordination while also increasing Global C economic opportunity so I'm excited about boost because I think it fits really squarely into our theme of capital allocation this this season boost is basically building a distributed incentive Network

it allows anyone to deploy onchain incentive offers to do onchain actions and help their ecosystem grow so basically think of boost as a primitive that allows you to add an economic reward to any onchain action or onchain state within a certain amount of conditions so if I wanted to reward people for contributing to get coin grants I could go to boost and I could put some money into a contract and I could say everyone a contract that emits this event under these circumstances in these conditions can get a boost can get a cryptoeconomic reward for doing that so um I I think that it's a really interesting example for me of scalable and precise Capital allocation that doesn't use intermediaries and that's what capital allocation season is is all about on green pill so I think you're going to really enjoy this episode with

Brian Flynn all right hey Brian what's up hey how's it going it's going good happy blob day as before we recording you telling me that Denon is is blob day yeah that's right yeah it's fun to be in an ecosystem that's innovating so much and there's just always so much to learn and uh having cheap l2s is going to open up a whole new design space so yeah happy blond day to the audience as well yeah I had to wear my uh my green outfit the green pill podcast today as well as to get my green hat my green shirt nice well uh we will take our green pills for sure um I I'd love to kick off by just asking you an incredibly broad question what is rabbit hole what is Boost and uh what are youall focused on yeah for sure

so boost is is the protocol behind rabbit hole and it's a distributed incentives Network so anyone can issue tokens commission onchain action for it to be completed by any address so you can think of it as sort of an onchain gake worker uh protocol in in some cases um so Rabbit Hole most people know that was sort of the first application that we built just for people to earn crypto by doing things on chain uh boost is kind of the evolution of rabbit hole and now the protocol uh that powers rabbit hole and many other clients as well yeah so you started off with the market opportunity and you sort of innovated and iterated on a protocol from there it sounds familiar to me yes that's right yeah yeah the good old journey of starting off as an application and then transitioning to a protocol which you know well yeah um what would you

describe as the core mechanism behind boost protocol um I think I saw a Twitter Thread about direct to contract incentives would you say that's the core mechanism behind boost yeah the easiest way to think about it is an incentivization protocol right so you can basically specify any onchain action whether it's a mint or swap or land or stake any any action that can be defined on chain select the parameters from that onchain action as well um deposit token in a smart contract specify in allow list if you want to Target onchain based off some onchain behavior um and then deploy the Boost itself I think directed contract is something that we've been exploring with a bunch of different Grant programs obviously once you have projects in the mix or getting Grant programs are kind of self-interested and so when you're operating at a network

level sort of level be above the projects the interesting question is well how do you benefit the project how do you benefit the network without the projects kind of being self-interested um and so that's something we've been talking to some l2s about and and trying to kind of uh go forward with boo so it's it's been it's been a journey but it's been interesting seeing different actors in these Dow ecosystems sort of operate and how they use boost as a mechanism to incentivize and coordinate yeah it feels like it's a very small primitive that enables a lot of interesting behaviors so as I understand it it's just sort of like a hook uh or like a smart contract where you can you can point in at other smart contracts and you can say hey if this this event is admitted or if it's in this certain State under these conditions then issue

a reward is that like too reductionist of an encapsulation of of what boost can do no that that's exactly it and I think what the most important part about it is that it's it's a two-sided marketplace right so you have you have issuers who are issuing incentives and you also have like front-end clients who are also like displaying these boost to users as well right and the frontend clients receive a cut of the Boost rewards if they actually fulfill the boost on behalf of the user right so that actually incentivizes front ends like rabbit hole and wallets and other third party influencers and creaders as well to kind of share those boost to audience and they can to cut it word so you kind of look at it as sort of this new age onchain advertising model yeah it's really interesting because I I mean as I was telling you before we recording this

season is all about Capital allocation and the hypothesis is that we'll be able to more precisely allocate Capital at scale onchain than we ever could in the pre- onchain internet and and what I'm imagining boost is is like it's it's this very simple but powerful primitive that allows you to program incentive fields and and add a boost literally to any onchain action and I think there's a lot of opportunity to um change the way capital is allocated in on top of that on top of that small primitive and then the one thing I'll just add to that before I Vol it back to you is that the last season we did of green pill was all about impact eals profit uh so basically there's a lot of people who are uh trying to figure out how do we incentivize public goods funding in our ecosystems and uh through my work with Carl Crone I know that Carl's kind of

doing analysis of okay this grantee got this much money and they created this much L2 block space consumption on optimism and they did XY and Z education wise and so something like boost feels like it comes at it from the exact opposite angle of just providing a bottom zump primitive where people can self assemble uh around the impact that they want to see in add profit incentives and maybe there's some version of the world in which these two things meet in the meet in the in the middle in the future but uh yeah it's interesting that we're all sort of working on the same problem but from different angles yeah for sure big fan of Carl's work and we've been following along and work that he's doing it's something I think what we're seeing a lot in sort of the Retro pgf and optimism space is we're trying to

everyone's trying to Define what impact actually means of course right you have you have open source Community talking about the developer impact sort of at at the Bas layer level and you also then you have applications talking about it sort of the onchain impact level of sequencer fees since that is the actual funding mechanism that's something like optimism is using um so we've kind of been looking at it as hey let's create this very neutral primitive that anyone can use uh including ourselves uh and then figure out what actually impact actually means and use this as a mechanism to actually achieve that impact in terms of how we actually allocate Capital correctly so um yeah it's been interesting it's a nice little plug for Grant programs as well because we've been able to to work with all these different Grant programs and as

boost as a mechanism to help Pro projects also distribute their grant money as well yeah well I'd love to hear what you think the most interesting apps built on top of boost are uh maybe and I'd say maybe even assume that the audience doesn't really know what rabbit hole is I'd love to hear about the application layer and and what kind of use cases people are using it for yeah for sure so use cases are for basically any action that can be incentivized on chain right so you have of course l2s that want to generate activity and Network we're putting tokens behind this you have dexes that want want to achieve growth right I think growth is like the giant category right now that has most the volume but then you kind of have all this like longtail use cases well right you have nft creators like Cooper turly and C records using it to actually boost

music mins on sound you have people on Zora using it to boost nft mints Zora then you also have delegates in in governance actually using boost to incentivize delegation actually get more delegate votes right so we're kind of seeing this whole spectrum of different use cases because it can literally be applied to any onchain action what you can incentivize um and so we're just trying to be this sort of neutral layer where anyone can plug in a very modular way you can add your smart contract to the protocol just through a plugin um so we kind of just make sure we provide that foundational infrastructure and try to these neutral as possible nice one thing that's interesting here is that you're adding economic incentives to a whole category actions that can be on

chain really anything can be on chain um how how are you finding How does Discovery work you know say I'm someone in the ecosystem that wants to discover my opportunities to earn a boost uh how how does that work because attention is the other scarce resource here yeah totally so that's that's the other side of the marketplace you're talking about so that is where interface like rabbit hole comes into play where you can actually discover earning opportunities that are Target to you based off your your onchain reputation and and something that we're seeing a lot in the space is that um these these issuers or issuing these boosts are actually looking at the onchain data data graph of if maybe you're you're verified because of gcoin passport maybe you're verified because you're you've done a bunch of things on Carter and

follow certain channels then you're being targeted with opportunities based upon this this oname graph um and then you can see which opportunities you're available for on rabbit hole on Boost inblock which is a new client we just launched uh and other wallets who are also integrating boost like like zerion as mothers that have daylight as sort of integration partner um so it's cool that there's like variety of interfaces that you can actually discover and and complete these things it's not kind of on a single interface itself and that those interfaces get a cut of the wordss for kind of facilitating completion of this yeah as you were saying that it sort of made me realize that this is sort of opening up a whole new onchain business model for wallets and and daps that are able to get their users to go in and complete a boost yeah yeah that's

right yeah this is definitely a way to re-engage your audience for wallets uh at the same time so it's we have some had some exciting conversations there as some people trying it out so far yeah well uh I'm on your website boost. XYZ which we'll have in the show notes and just want to call out that uh this is not merely theoretical you've had about uh a little over $3 million in USD distributed to 267,000 Unique users so you're putting up some numbers and this is as of March 13th blob day uh 2024 and that'll continue growing but uh yeah that's that's a that's a decent amount of volume so far where you think most of the growth will come for come from in the 2024 Market what uh what areas are you looking to see people add boosts to

yeah it's going to probably be the same thing that it's been so far which is uh l2s kind of across the board l2s are all fighting for Block space trying to fight for users especially now with with blobs entering the scene now we're just going to see fees even even drop even more so there'll just be more opportunities to sponsor and promote transactions which we see most opportunity coming from so it's going to be interesting as as 444 kind of levels the playing field we'll probably see this world where where a lot of crypto is abstracted away and people are now doing things for free which kind of opens up a currently New Market to now sponsor transactions where users are actually getting paid on every single transaction they do instead because it's so cheap to complete transactions um and so we see a big opportunity for produced as this really

this cashback model for users where now l2s or any token issuer can actually just start sponsoring transactions to kind of bring them to certain uh block space as well so that's kind of the main thing that we're thinking about for 2024 and and uh the kind of new paradigm of lovs yeah um I feel like having really cheap transactions transactions there as cheap as air is just going to open up this whole new design space I know that you said it I'm just repeating it so that the audience internalizes it but um you know my main business you know like getcoin we were one of the first first apps I think to to integrate an L2 in summer of 2020 and yeah I just remember being so passionate about that because the whole point of quadratic funding is is giving the little guy or little girl

the opportunity to allocate capital in these ecosystems and the median transaction for a time was only a dollar and you can't give a dollar transaction when there's a $20 fee I think there's going to be this whole design space of applications with transaction that are as cheap as air or even paid for by the the D maybe the the D earns boosts and that's how it it subsidizes the gas rewards that that wasn't even possible before and you know I know that you've sort of teased it a little bit but anything else to say about that design space once transactions Trend fees Trend towards zero what kind of weird stuff are we gonna see I I I'm not sure yeah I mean it's interesting there you can see some if you look at the salana ecosystem think

you could see some future what ethereum l2s may look like it's because they've already entered that fee Paradigm and and they're doing things like hey everyone's just getting free nfts left and right and everyone's just like you know it's kind of like Venice boardwalk style everyone's kind of just handing out free things left and right I think I think we'll probably get to this get to the state of crypto where you just get a wallet and everyone's just starting to send you free tokens free nfts and like all the spam that you've probably seen in wallets over the past years kind of just gets like 10 or 100x a little crazier um and then you just see your balance like starting to go up kind of just like randomly very volatile and you never really have to like onramp to crypto in that case as a new user you just kind of just like get a wallet and

just like start earning because everyone just sending you free stuff that may or may not have value um so I think that's like the weird stuff that like may may emerge out of this um you kind of the freeness of things becomes a lot more accessible um so so yeah it'll be interesting to see kind of kind of what comes of it but not really sure yet of of the types applications I think we'll have to still wait and see what comes about I think the last year in general has been very unpredictable for crypto probably more unpredictable in the future as well yeah it's it's hard to reason about with any amount of foresight but I think in a hindsight it'll it'll be you know like completely obvious it's like asking people to predict social networking in the 1990s before you know we' like really permeated the internet into our brains

um um but I'm excited for it and in some ways the salana analogy is a good one because they've had like really cheap fees before anyone else but it's also much more less mature ecosystem than the E ecosystem and so you know it seems like they're just like kind of in some ways repeating defi summer but on Solana um but I don't know yeah knowing where to look for inspiration I think is is one of the is one of like the questions to reason about as as you're exploring this design space and so we'll keep an eye on all the different l2s in um yeah I'll be curious to see where it goes yeah anything else to say about like the Fess design space or just cheap transactions or just what you see at the frontier of lus yeah I I think now what we're starting to see with a bunch of

l2s is the uh the token distribution uh of issuance design space is kind of changing very rapidly retr pgf is obviously one one mechanism people are using Arbor Trum Dow obviously is this very Bottoms Up type structure we're also seeing kind of this new design space gr a blast is kind of one side of the extremum of the l2s that is being very aggressive with with Point structures as well so I think everyone sort of figuring out how to get faster and faster token distribution issuance essentially to the point where things are just becoming more hyper financialized over a period of time per se to the point where everyone is sort of battling this incentives War right now on the L2 front so like no matter where you go you sort of just see a

whole bunch of incentives just being piled on and projects are trying to get their incentive War chest just to compete with other ones on on other L2 ecosystems as well and so um I think that will only only increase with with 4844 um as well so just it'll be it'll be interesting how how I I literally think there's going to be a world in which every transaction you do as a user you will get paid in in some capacity and and you won't have to even worry about you fees to some extent just because how much incentives are going to be thrown at you to transact there um which is which is really no different than like than like credit card rewards in some cases right like credit card rewards like you if you're always earning rewards you go to coffee shop

and everyone's like please like sign up for my Loyalty Rewards program and and they kind of like throw it in your face so I think it's I think it's going to be more extreme in the onchan world yeah for sure it feels like there's two ways to reason about this um the the the first for me is like I want to live in World in which people are earning on chain and their first experience with blockchains is earning money for having an impact in their in their Community or earning money in some way and and actually tangibly being able to pay rent or put food on the table for their kids instead of just like you know your first experience is buying an nft or something like that um and then the other way to reason about this is that there's a war for attention and talent right now and I

think that that's expressed in this uh the the points meta uh which was pioneered by fren Tech basically you do actions on frch and you get points and everyone's speculating that those points would turn into tokens in a future airdrop and competing with each other for user attention by issuing these points and the the UDA Loop the observe Orient decide act like the the loop of assigning points measuring actions and assigning points can be much faster now and I'm actually looking at your your Twitter and you guys have an onchain points stack so it feels like you guys are kind of like arming the uh the people who are issuing points with better ways of measuring precisely what's going on in their ecosystem and I kind of see these two things uh

Connecting People earning on Chain by by doing actions and the evolving meta of points and we're going to meet in the middle and create this world where people are going to earn on chain as their first experience as opposed to buying buying an asset so that gets quite exciting and and hope to see it this cycle yeah definitely the the points M uh in general you know started to evolve when when people were like projects wanted a way to experiment with incentives with actually having a token um and kind of create that sort of uh grayness between users um I I think kind of our approach to this has been hey let's give that transparency to users let's give them how much they're actually earning of a onetoone basis um but let not have it liquid per se so

it's not this hyper financialized thing that kind of represents ownership and then once they hit a certain GPI or metric in Network or the protocol actually turn on transferability later so that it's kind of meth one to one so it's kind of an experiment to see how can we actually reward ownership to the right participants in the network before sort of the transferability or kind of the the mercenary of of tokens kind of kicks in and kind of takes over an overdrive so um I think there's still lots of experimentation to be done with sort of the uh onchain points per se so excited to uh keep trying it out yeah well um you said the word mercenary and um I guess I'm I'm wondering like is there is there a meta that's evolved for

attracting more missionary people to your ecosystem versus mercenary is that something people actually care about uh you know what does that design space look like in your head yeah it's a really good question you know I think crypto and you know this well I think crypto back in 2017 2018 like was super Superion obviously and then over time has like become way way way way more mercenary I think sorry I don't I to interrupt you but uh I just feel like it's impossible to paint this the the space with a broad stroke like I don't think Ico partip 201 were missionary but like there's definitely a certain subset of people who are around for for the values but uh but yeah anyway sorry uh uh yeah I guess I'm wondering uh you know what you think

the like The Meta is is for attracting missionaries to your ecosystem and and how you design for that I think one one of the best ways to do this is um start really wide just try and get participants uh actually into the ecosystem that is going to have to be with some some mercenary tokens like some like an air drop or people just earning by doing things and sort of very low contribution style and then just naturally seeing who steps up and who starts participating without sort of the incentive who actually stays for the values for the culture for actually whoever believes in the mission of what the network or the Dow or the protocol is actually trying to achieve right and then actually rewarding those participants in a very smaller and

smaller and smaller funnel um so it's something very similar to again to like the Loyalty space right where you actually you kind of give Loyalty Rewards as an acquisition cost and then you're kind of seeing who retains of a period of time and making sure those people are retaining in a network that may become com ambassadors right it's a kind of a very similar model to some extent so I think we can learn a lot from sort of Loyalty Rewards for kind of where airdrops and token distributions actually evolving in the future um I think there is sort of this very uh great area right now between sort of how you reward ownership and give certain granular permissions over certain smart contracts and ex tokens and network but again it's just a very wide design space right now that a lot of people are trying to figure out out and trying to

figure out just where airdrops in general ahead and next because I think that that is a mechanism that people are kind of looking after in terms of actually finding those ver sorry finding those missionaries and having them continuously participate in the network afterwards yeah and I feel like the you know the other ultimate opportunity here is not just finding the missionaries but cultivating them right I'm I I'm wondering how many people start in these Eco systems as a mercenary and become a missionary um and and what the design space looks like there and I think given enough data boost in Rabbit Hole may actually be an opportunity to to sort of measure that and figure out how to catch that lightning in a bottle yeah totally and I think this is something that some protocols have been interested in is just figuring out how to test different

incentive mechanism over a period of time before committing to more programmatic or fixed incentive distribution schedule like how how can you actually test say I I would reward users on a on a daily or weekly basis and find those users we contributing very continuous capacity um instead of saying hey we're we're going to just reward 100 tokens per day for the next four years which protocols confidently do um so it's been interesting seeing how Protocols are starting to change their tune on this um in the new meta yeah um well I'm wondering um G green pill season 4 is all about Capital allocation the high level hypothesis is that um onchain Capital allocation is going to look way different than pre onchain Capital allocation we're going

to be able to do more scalable precise Capital allocation without intermediaries and that's going to open up a whole new design space of ways that communities fund what matters to them and how people earn a living in the 21st century and and I'm wondering if you have any reaction to that hypothesis or areas that you think are interesting to explore it within that that sort of idea that onchain Capital allocation is going to be an important design space where does your mind go when when when I rattle that off yeah no totally I I think you're already starting to see uh lots of DS and protocols really experiment with with capital loation efficient way just to kind of fund different public goods I just look at nouns for example as like one of the the

biggest dolls in ethereum space they you they funded that beautiful 4844 video this week as well that kind of just brought the space together you know in some cases um but I think what you're starting to see from like a mechanism standpoint is is capital allocation being hooked into different smart contracts to give much more granular permissions over over certain things in on chain I think streaming protocols like super fluid making very easy to vest as long as certain metrics are being hit are in the H as well um and be able to do different clawbacks all on chain uh so I think that the whole being able to take grants and now figure out how to actually do much more interesting mechanisms it is kind of the next goal with with Grant and capital allocations so we're starting to already see interesting things and different Dows

and protocols and probably will continue to see that um even as as fees and and come down with World War 4 which obviously is gonna just be a big theme of blob day yeah um I'm wondering if it if I could pinch and zoom on what you said which is you know there's interesting things happening in these l2s what are the most weird and interesting and Frontier things that you've seen uh or I guess what are the most exciting things that you've seen I I think I think sequencer F sharing back into the de is is this this category that everyone's sort of exploring in some way or another right so um I think you're seeing it from from optimism in which you know sequency Fe Fe sharing is going back to refund uh the Retro fgf I think the arbitrum is using it to to

defund the Dow I think you know you're having other superch chain uh l2s like like mode uh using it to reward users and projects building on top of it to refu growth um so so that is kind of the core mechanism that that I think a lot of l2s starting to realize that actually brings more growth into the ecosystem so really interested to see how that pairs with capital allocation of actually being able to give projects and users or actually bring more growth to the network to reinvest the capital being back into the ecosystem to even grow even more and refuel it um so interested to see how that goes I know it's been something everyone's been talking about over the past few years but something I think is a powerful mechanism that can bring a lot of good to the space yeah it feels like one sort of thing that I'm

I'm I I I think is like a general good rule of thumb is like look for the areas that are economically exothermic um so so basically like in in the ocean around ocean vents around where magma and and thermal heat comes there's actually a lot of life that comes and and lives off of the energy that comes out of the ocean vents right and um the word economically exothermic means like what is what is exuding uh money what is what is exuding like the economic equivalent of heat which is which is which is like tokens in money and and so sequencer fees l2s have a source of economically exothermic tokens in which those are going to be distributed to an ecosystem uh that's

being built around that and um you know I think LRT that's why there's a lot of uh there's a lot of excitement around reaking protocols right now because there's going to be native yield coming out of that and I'm really excited to see instead of people just gathering around these giant treasuries of valueless governance tokens actually seeing yield being a a thing that people gather around because that feels like it's much more sustainable than than treasuries which can fluctuate up and down you know governance tokens have their places but um yeah I don't know that maybe just the ru the rule thumb I'm I'm I'm landing on here is like wherever there's economically exothermic sources of yield happening that's where interesting Capital allocation is going to happen and you can build these positive some games where the community helps create more yield by gathering around the yield through Kickbacks and

and boost incentives and stuff like that so I don't know any reaction to that no that that's totally right uh I think one problem with with what you're saying we've seen as well is when you start off with this like Giant pool of governance tokens and you're trying to be like okay well let's figure out how to allocate this there's just so much money in this treasury sometimes that like there was no work to actually get there in the first place you know sort of there's reasons why they but they kind of magically appeared there and it's like there was no sort of work put in to figure out what is the best way to allocate these but now that you get this native yield sources and you're actually working off the native yield sources that are kind of starting from from almost zero in some cases now you're being much more frugal much more trying

to figure out being much more Capital efficient of how to actually distribute those as well so um I totally agree with everything you're saying that now it's trying to figure out how to how to put this money in and start putting it to work and then taking that money that's put to work and reinvested into the ecosystem as well to kind of grow it even further um so excited to see how that meta evolves as well yeah it it feels like crypto has gotten really good at Capital formation Gathering funds into a central country and if you think about the like there's almost like a a Yang to that Yin which is how do you distribute it once it's actually out there and so far all we've come up with is just governance proposals that take everyone's time and attention and they're overly political and so I'm I'm really excited to see the the draw the

rest of the on top of forming Capital which is allocating it to your community and if we can find trustless and effective ways of doing it then it gets really interesting and especially if there's a plurality of capital allocation uh and you know I think this is actually the three three between gitcoin and rabbit hole is that um direct to contract incentives are totally complimentary to getcoin Grants and the retroactive public goods funding that we're doing and if we get to a world where there's a plurality of capital allocation mechanisms there's less upside to game any any one of them um you know like we we talk a lot about client diversity in ethereum and not having any client having more than 33% of the network share what does it look like when these Dows are allocating Capital through a plurality of

mechanisms and none of them have more than 25% of the app Capital allocation mechanisms uh that that seems like really scalable to me because people can't game it and also each mechanism has to do one thing and do it well but it's it's together in an Ecology of capital allocation that they start to really create active healthy vibrant communities of both mercenaries and missionaries so um yeah I don't know tldr 33 between getcoin and rabbit hole for sure yeah totally yeah you know we're personally very interested in the idea of how do different mechanisms work together how are they mutually incentivized you know I think I know you've done some thinking on this and have done some exploration on what like alliance between two protocols actually looks like in some cases um there's been people who've

tried it over the years but it seems like we're getting to the point now with with capital allocation where now it's actually possible for it to happen uh maybe it's something like shared sequence erors that will actually make that feasible who knows it's kind of like toly to say um but but I'm really interested to kind of figure out what how do mechanis work together I think it's exact what you're saying is focusing on on one specific thing in the stack and being really good at it and figuring out how it fits with other pieces in that modular puzzle um I think it's very different than than how protocols operated in the past which is kind of just tries to do everything be very horizontal and then eventually become its own chain now we're trying to get very specific pieces uh in the puzzle as well yeah um it's interesting

to see the evolving meta here if you were to project all this out 10 years what kind of weird things you think years maybe another way of asking this is like it boosts Max maximally successful what do things look like in 10 years i' like to I like to think of it as sort of this matchmaking progr call right so just like how you know any you play OS you have this like lfg right you say hey I'm looking for a group uh and and I want to find exactly what boost will be right so you basically say I have all this digital reputation because I've done these things on chain I have these assets you're being awarded with a earning opportunity from a protocol that has chose you because you're the best person to accompl or best address best spot whatever it is to

actually accomplish that task right so it's just essentially matchmaking between protocols that are looking to distribute ownership and tokens and users and Bots that are actually looking to complete work uh in some cases in an onchain action capacity so that's kind of how we think about that Evolution over time yeah it's interesting for you to call it a matching protocol or a matching engine I don't know if listeners know this but my first CTO gig in web 2 was running a dating site and so I've thought a lot about like how do how do you how do you match people with other people how do you match supply and demand and there's there's a lot of like weird fun stuff you can do once you hit a certain scale where you've got inventory on on both sides it feels weird to talk about people and Community as inventory but in this context of a

Marketplace uh that's kind of what they are to the matching engine and um man I think you can really help realize that vision of people earning crypto as as their first uh as their first experience with crypto and and that would be cool like when people are telling their legislators earning from crypto uh and and that's what people are hearing it's going to create a lot of more Pro crypto Pro peer-to-peer money uh politician uh in in pro-social Behavior out there so that's exciting yeah no no totally I think there's still a long way to go before we get there but uh making strides uh hopefully to get there yeah for sure I I'm excited to to see this ecosystem built of capital allocation I'm excited to see where boost goes is there anything that I didn't ask that

you want to say uh no I think that that covered it I um we just launched a new uh client for Boost called boost [Music] inbox so definitely to check it out it's kind of the evolution of rap cases just be trying to make it a little bit more abstracted take advantage sort of this cross chain ux type Paradigm that we have um in crypto um really trying to make that as as simple as possible for for new users coming into crypto so definitely recommend checking that out um other than that just really interested in in uh where blops go honestly I think that's the big thing at top of mind for me yeah it just feels like we've just opened up we've just gone over this Horizon of really cheap transactions on l2s and I think there's

going to be a lot of fun Innovation that happens there so um yeah excited to see where that goes uh and and also call out before we end the episode and just say that I'm really excited to figure out what the three- three is between Alo protocol and boost protocol feels like we could maybe issue an RFP to have people explore that design space of of how do we do aloe on Boost and boost on aloe and uh the definitely feels like a three three there because they're complimentary and playing in in similar spaces so uh just wanted to to say that out loud uh before we record the in the episode and if listeners have any ideas of how to combine aloe Capital allocation protocol and and boost protocol please reach out to me on on Twitter and uh maybe we can throw up an

RFP or something and have have someone build an MVP that'd be awesome yeah anything else to say before we close uh no that's it thanks for having me on the podcast it was a blast yeah for sure I think we've been friends for years so it's finally uh it's good to Mint it as a podcast episode well uh Brian uh you are an innovator in space it's been great to talk to you for the listener please check out Brian's Twitter profile at Flyn jam and boost is at boost. XYZ we'll have links in the show notes where you can check both of those out uh peace and love see you next time cool thanks Kevin bye you just heard from Brian Flynn I'm excited about boost. XYZ because I think it's an example of capital allocation at scale boost is a very simple primitive on some level but

it's also very powerful because of the amount of expressibility that it it it gives you in allocating Capital precisely at scale and without intermediaries an example of capital allocation in an onchain World thanks for listening to the green pill. network podcast again we are building a coordination a network Society of thousands of hackers dreamers and doers focused on using crypto to bring positive sum digital systems to the world world like Brian Flynn like rabbit hole and like boost. XYZ if you value our work you can collect this episode go to pods. medgreen pill to find this episode and start collecting while you're here please remember to subscribe rate and review it helps us build the regenerative cryptoeconomic movement peace and love I will see you next [Music] time