SBF arrested & charged, LlamaNode RPC live and more - The Daily Gwei Refuel #506 - Ethereum Updates
13 Dec 2022 · 30:18
Anthony Sassano covers the criminal charges filed against Sam Bankman-Fried on this Daily Gwei Refuel, alongside Ethereum's roadmap for shipping withdrawals, EOF, and EIP-4844 in 2023. He also tracks new MEV visualizations of validator and builder earnings and the launch of LlamaNode's privacy-preserving RPC service.
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hello everyone welcome to another episode of The Daily gray refuel where we cup the latest news in the ethereum ecosystem I'm your host Anthony 13th of December 2022. alright everyone let's get into it so I think the biggest news from today was the fact that SPF has finally been formally charged uh with wire fraud wire fraud conspiracy Securities for fraud Securities fraud conspiracy and money laundering and there was also a follow-up charge that just came out before from the SEC which is charged SPF with defrauding invest investors in crypto asset a trading platform FTX so finally some justice I guess uh we don't know obviously what his sentence is going to be or what it is right now but uh all these charges I believe carries a maximum sentence of
life in prison and honestly I feel like everyone right now is is clamoring for that and that he deserves life in prison and I agree I mean it's some of the stuff that has come out just before from the SEC basically confirmed what people were saying where essentially what ended up happening was that Alameda had an unlimited line of credit from FTX which means that they were able to borrow FTX customer deposits and SPF basically enabled this to happen and that's why all the money pretty much went put basically or at least that's the main reason why the custom customer deposits went weren't poof like that so yeah unfortunate obviously for the customers and there's still the bankruptcy uh process going through but that's going to take quite a while we don't know how much the customer is actually going to get back it could be as low as five to
ten percent of their total Holdings but yeah it's it's kind of hard to tell right but still I'm very very glad that this has happened I'm glad that that media tour that SBF was doing and all that other stuff he was doing hasn't actually uh played into this at all it doesn't seem like it's helped him at all and I think that the Bohemian government uh have I have the Bahamian government sorry have uh have sent him back to the U.S because it's obviously the US here that is charged him with this uh this is I believe it's the uh what is it there's a New York Times article here of exactly oh it's buying a paywall of course uh well the second charge is from the SEC and the first one I believe is from the uh a district uh the southern district of New York I believe uh sdny is the um
is the abbreviation that you might see thrown around but yeah these are extremely serious charges the you know the the case itself can go either way right I'm sure he's gonna settle or I'm sure there's he's not going to go to court for this he's not going to hit front a a a jury of his peers to get uh um a suit here sorry not a suit to get a verdict here um but I'm I'm curious to see how this ends up like does he cut a deal really quickly is Caroline you know the CEO of Alameda is she turning on him like is she giving uh evidence in order to cut herself a better deal there will be deals going around everywhere and I'm just curious to see what kind of deal SPF cuts might cut a deal where he basically tells every you know tells him
everything tells them who was involved and who wasn't involved and gives them everything they want and he may get a reduced sentence because of that but the legal process is I mean I'm not a lawyer obviously I don't know what's going to happen here but as I said like from what I can tell these charges carry with them a maximum sentence of of life in prison given his young given that he can he can he's probably gonna fold like I doubt he's going to like keep any secrets from the prosecutors he's just going to give them everything they want I kind of struggled to see him going to prison for life and he may get a sentence where it's like okay well you know you're in prison for like 20 years but you're eligible for parole in such and such years I don't know I personally just
struggle to see him going to prison for life given his age because he's so young and also his connections are going to play into this whether you think that that's a conspiracy or not that's definitely going to play into this uh to an extent I believe his political connections his parents connections but all in all I don't know I don't see him not serving in time here like given the the extent of the charges given the extent of his guilt I mean there's no way for him to beat around the bush yeah like it's very there's a lot of evidence that show that he is guilty of all of this and on top of that there's also the SEC charge and on top of all of this even if he is out of prison sometime in the future he is never going to be able
to uh trade markets again he's never going to be able to do uh Financial related things again he's going to be banned from it for life pretty much uh and I mean I'd struggle to see who'd want to get in bed with him right but besides maybe other countries that are not allied with the US right China Russia uh you know other other countries like that maybe they would want to uh get in bed with him but to do another business venture but yeah definitely no one in the Western countries uh will ever get involved with him again so he's alive is effectively over I mean just like the others out there that uh kind of collapsed this year and I put a tweet out today where I said you know SPF went down but suzu and Carl Davies of 3ac and do Quan uh are still at large and
hopefully they are next but honestly like like I hope they are next like but the thing is is that suzu and Carl Davies are reportedly in Bali uh and dokon is in Serbia I think so it's going to be harder for for that for the US to get an arrest here and for South Korea as well obviously South Korea is going after dark one for them to get an arrest but I mean I it's still early days so to speak I I kind of feel like that we haven't seen the last of of them I mean obviously they're trying to be more public now I mean they're always tweeting and things like that but in terms of uh the their Story I mean Carl Davis are trying to put the 3ac stuff behind them and they're reportedly trying to raise money for a new fund and
they're reportedly trying to raise it from the Middle East they seem to have been have converted to Islam recently uh Islam recently and I feel like that's just a strategy for them to get money from people in the Middle East and it's just it's so gross when you think about it right like literally lopping as uh you know as someone who believes in in Islam or converting to Islam just so you can raise money from from uh Muslim people or from people in the Middle East just it it's just bizarre to me that some where people would go to this extent but at the same time like you look at where suzu and Kyle Davies are today you know they known as massive fraudsters of one of the biggest collapses in crypto history with 3ac and they want to basically get back to where they were of being god-like Traders and
god-like investors and they're getting money from wherever they can get it and then there's dokon which is in a similar situation where his project and everything he worked his legacy completely fell apart everything he'd worked for fell apart and now he's trying to do uh you know Terror 2 or luna 2 or whatever it is trying to to jump up support there I actually looked at uh I went through dokwon's Twitter feed the other day and looked at all the tweets that he's putting out and retweeting and then I went and looked at the engagement on those tweets it was high but then when going through the engagement itself and the likes and the retweets there were so many Bots and fake accounts on there so he's either doing that himself or other people doing it because they're trying to pump their lunar bags but there's just no organic
traction there at all so anything that you're seeing about Tara and Luna is definitely uh a lot of it is definitely fake engagement there but but uh yeah they don't they and they these three aren't the only ones that deserve to go down as well I mean a lot of people said what about Alex Alex machinski from Celsius of course uh but there's so many of these scammers and grifters that deserve to go to prison or at least pay a really large fine uh that it's just too long to list I mean some people in the comments were talking about uh Danny sestar the um the Wonderland uh kind of like uh uh uh uh frog Nation or whatever it was that happened last year there's there's so many of them all the YouTubers and stuff like that like bit boy uh there's too many to to name and that's really sad
that there's so many of these scammers and grifters but I think with SPF being taken down uh and hopefully there's other ones getting taken down as well eventually it does work to dissuade people in the future uh and it does work to make people make people kind of much more acutely aware of um fixing their shop so to speak there is a lot of stuff around binance and CZ right now and there was a announcement as well that uh binance is being investigated for money laundering but that was like a four-year-old case and it seems like the the um investigators are uh tossing up what to do here like do they actually prosecute for it or do they just uh say to bind into their or fine or do they reach a settlement they don't actually know what to do and that says to me that
they don't have enough evidence to become confident of taking this thing to to court or taking it to a judge and being able to get a verdict in their favor so yeah I mean there's also rumors around binance a solvency like I like as I've said before like I I highly doubt binance is insolven you can actually see their addresses on chain and see all the Assets in there obviously we don't know their liabilities but they currently have I believe 62 billion dollars worth of assets on chain that are verifiably linked to binance um so if they have more liabilities than that I mean even if they have anything close to that I would be very very surprised in saying that the number one rule at I mean especially at this point in time is get your funds off centralized exchanges don't leave them
on there if you're a a Trader and you want to be on there I mean fine take that risk whatever but if you're like literally just keeping them there to store them there just take it off buy yourself a hardware wallet lattice one Ledger whatever it is buy it buy it for yourself get them off the exchange put them on the hardware wallet secure that Hardware wallet and your seed phrase of course and sleep better at night because even though I don't believe binance is insolvent it doesn't matter right anything can happen to these funds at any time like binance could just close your account and and or freeze your your funds for an indeterminate period uh undetermined period of time uh and you know maybe you can get hacked on the centralized exchange as well of course you can get your your um Hardware wallet
can can compromise too if you leak your seed phrase or if someone gets access to the wallet and has your your PIN or your passcode so yeah just get your funds off centralized exchanges if they're still on there I mean I doubt that many of you have funds on centralized exchanges anymore get given what's happened this year but it's always good to remind your friends and family about this as well if they own crypto just make sure don't use centralized exchanges as any type a kind of like medium long-term storage maybe short term if if you're keeping it on there for a specific reason maybe to go to Fiat maybe because you're doing some trades I can understand that but long-term storage it doesn't make any sense to me so yeah anyway I'll keep you guys updated on any new information that comes out about SPF but for now it seems
like we finally uh saw him get arrested finally seen charges against him and it seems like his PR tour didn't really help him at all alright so on to some ethereum core updates so I did mention to you guys a bit of drama around EIP 1153 uh on yesterday's refuel and this was the EIP that unisop was interested in getting included in Shanghai or not just unusoft but other projects as well included in Shanghai but it wasn't uh going to be or isn't going to be included and that we're hoping that it's going to get included in the fork after Shanghai uh but Jesse here from uh coinbase I gave a take on the ethereum Bro map today from his point of view he says number one withdrawals uh eof 4844 and 1153 are all important upgrades that
will ship in 2023 the folks advocating for each are positive contributors bringing unique perspectives our prioritization process is healthier than it's ever been and improving is there room for improvement including both protecting ethereum's credible neutrality and making sure all voices are heard absolutely but given ethereum's emerging role as the foundation of the global crypto economy I'd rather we evolve processes slowly and deliberately I feel grateful that I'm getting to participate in ethereum's evolution both as an individual and a representative of coinbase and I feel grateful that there are so many other brilliant people and orgs working together to build this platform this is a special time this encapsulates my thoughts on ethereum governance generally and if you're in his roadmap generally like quite well I went over this yesterday so I won't spend too much
time on this but basically the ethereum uh development core development process and core development kind of environment and ecosystem is in the best place it has ever been it's shipping faster than it has been a lot more work is being done uh we have a lot more funding going on as well through initiatives like the protocol Guild we have a lot of exciting upgrade updates coming down the pipeline now that we've got the merge out of the way there are other things that obviously uh are really really exciting on the roadmap that are coming that are being worked on I think as I've said before the merge acted as a way to really uh I guess show the world that ethereum can deliver these big upgrades and it can do so in a live massive Network where its users aren't impacted by the changes at all and that was a
massive boost in morale for the core developers and researchers of course and they've just just been steadfast working on everything since then I remember going uh through after the merge saying you know the the core developers are going to take like a four to five week break because of Devcon and things like that but right after the merge they were seen working on withdrawals they were like you know Screw taking a break let's do withdrawals and withdrawals are set for Shanghai in March and slash April along with the eof upgrades and then hopefully after that you know three to six months after that we get 48 44 and 1153 and possibly some other eips uh so yeah as I said like ethereum uh the ethereum roadmap is in an awesome place right now the ethereum development process on the core protocol is in such an amazing place right now and it's very
very hard to find a reason to be bearish at this point in time and speaking of 1153 Hayden Adams put from Unison put out his own thread what 1153 is it's not 24 tweets long it's only like three tweets long he did that as a bit of a troll but basically the tldr is that EIP 1153 is a technical gas optimization Erp with a ton of users uh uses written by a problem core Dev before unisoft V1 was launched and he's quote tweeting a tweet that from Alexei sharp who works at Aragon uh so is a core developer himself uh where basically he talked about how 1153 was written in 2008 and you know what it aimed to do and there was actually another EIP that came later that didn't go in that was actually
worse 1153 so as I said yesterday this Erp has been in the works for I mean I guess it's existed for over four years it hasn't really been in the works for over four years it's just that it got reinvigorated when hey uh when unusoft put Engineers on it and then more people got involved with it and were like okay well this is actually something that's that's a really great upgrade for ethereum let's get this in uh you know let's let's put the work behind it in order to get it in because at the end of the day if no one's a champion of an EIP if no one's putting the work in to actually get it done then it's not going to get done and even the most popular aips like erp1559 were delayed because there wasn't anyone seriously working on it like there were a lot of people
talking about and saying you know this would be awesome to get in there was research being done but no one was seriously working on it no one took charge to get it over the finish line or to even get it anywhere near the Finish Line until timbiko came along and this is this was his claim to fame so to speak and obviously he's done a lot more since then but this was his first kind of big foray I believe into ethereum uh core protocol development what put his name on the map was basically being the one to Steward erp1559 to mainnet and uh without him it would have taken probably longer or maybe we never would have got one five five nine uh without his stewardship there so it's very very important for eips to have people that care about them not just one person but a bunch of them
but also important to have people that care about them from different uh different kind of categories right you have the researchers you'd have developers you have the community more generally you have um uh Educators right like you need people from all walks of life to care about an AIP but it's it's a sum of all of those parts it's you can't just have like the community members screaming about it saying this would be awesome without someone actually developing it and researching it and making sure that it's fit for for for mainnet right so so yeah anyway you can go give this little thread from Hayden a read there uh next up is a tweet from vitalik which are basically has got to do with the tweet that Jesse put out or at least is in the same I guess uh vein as the Tweet Jesse put out
where he says IMO the best argument against any evm improvements is that it's much harder to remove ebm features than to add them and so a culture where ongoing evm improvements are expected means evm keeps complexifying some evm changes are good but that's the trade-off to weigh against if we can find a way to automatically convert older version of evm code into newer version evm code that would of course significantly reduce the trade-off this is a very good point that I don't think many people talk about or really think about is that we add features all the time but it's very rare for us to actually remove features from the evm I think the last time we did it was removing this self-destruct uh op code which is the gas refund thing that people were taking advantage of but other than that I can't really remember anything that has been
outright removed on the evm I'm sure there has been other things but right now I just can't remember off the top of my head but generally it's about adding stuff to the evm rather than removing stuff now The Optimist in us can say that well when we add stuff it means that we really want it and it's actually driving a lot of value for ethereum and the evm so why would we remove it in the future doesn't really make any sense well I mean yes and no there could be things that go in and then later on we decide okay well it wasn't actually that valuable it's actually having a negative impact on the network uh and people aren't really using it and it's kind of taking up all these resources let's just remove it or replace it with something else and that could happen definitely
that's what happened with the self-destruct op code right so it can happen it does happen but I think vitalik's Point here about making sure that we don't add too much complexity to the evm at layer 1 is very important now at Layer Two you know you can do whatever you want really I mean you could you can and the thing is is that teams are doing whatever they want with the AVM at Layer Two I mean I covered last week how polygon was able to um modify the evm to do parallelization I've covered the monad team before that is working on evm improvements uh arbitrary and optimism are doing their own evm improvements so when thinking about the evm as a thing it's not just limited to ethereum layer one it's it basically encapsulates all of these different networks using it as well but of course they do base themselves off of
ethereum layer one but ethereum layer one is always going to move slower it's always going to be more conservative than these other layers so just a great point from vitalik that I felt was worth bringing up all right Michael Sproul here from the sigma Prime team announced today that he is joining the Lido Community administering administering the list of Mev relays used by Lido validators previously I criticized Lido's contribution to censorship because of the requirement to use censoring relays I believe the updated policy improves this uh so the updated policy includes uh he says here that hazu and the flashbots crew successfully advocated for the use of Mev bid minimums uh that's the the Min bid that I've been talking about on there and then basically Lido has implemented this
policy I believe where they're using the Min bid from what I can tell here and the intent of the policy has been clarified to emphasize that node operators have freedom in choosing their relays as well on the Lido side so they just need to maintain profitability and at an acceptable level and run some relays from the must include list uh and and in the last few weeks I've seen an explosion of new relays as Michael points out here and then he links to some of the websites that I've covered before uh but you can create his whole thread I'll link it in the YouTube description below but great to see later embracing a more open real layout kind of ecosystem here and speaking of Mev boost relayers we have Tony here with a new diagram on his Mev boost.picks website so it shows that Medium
validator receives 0.048 for proposing a third-party block with more than 70 passing censoring relays over the last 14 days so it's not even worth sacrificing censorship resistance to do this and that's why flashbots had their Min bid amount of 0.05 eth because the median is so low is that like there's not there's no point talking to a censoring relayer to relay your transactions if you're not going to profit more than uh that amount anyway right more than 0.05 so you just build the blocks locally and there is a slight API here of 0.2 percent I believe but like it's basically negligible right so uh yeah I mean he's added this this kind of chart here to mov boost.picks to visualize this which you can check out and I'll link it in the YouTube
description below and he also put out a new visualization or I guess like not maybe not a new visualization but visualization today of Mev being beautiful here and it's is basically showing the builders and the relayer infrastructure so there's a lot more Builders now on the left hand side you can see the explosion in Builders and also there's a lot more relayers here that these Builders send their bundles to which is great to see so just another way to visualize the emerging Mev Mev ecosystem here between Builders and relayers uh which I don't know if this is live on one of his websites yet but you can maybe it's live on Mev boost.pics yes it is so it is live on mov boost.picks at the bottom here I believe this this was live last time as well when I highlighted this website but this will keep obviously keep getting
updated and we'll see a much better ecosystem flourish as time goes on but mov boost stop picks is probably the best website right now for tracking uh all stats related to Mev boost related things uh whereas mevwatch.info is definitely the best site for tracking the censorship concerns and the censoring relays and all that stuff there but yeah this is great and this is this is actually at the top here they've got some pie charts of the real layers Market does a really great job of showing you why what the relayers market looks like right now so on the left hand side is a total block market so this includes all blocks on ethereum and on the right hand side this is just the Mev boosted block marker now as you can see it's looking much healthier these days I mean you remember that flashbots of the
of the Mev boosted block Market was actually up at like 97 just a few months ago now it's down to 64 and on the total block Market they're at 57 uh which hopefully they'll get below 50 there but we obviously want to see uh these other I guess uh relays um uh uh getting more market share over time which they will and uh yeah that was awesome to see from uh from Tony here all right so I don't know if I've covered stata ethereum before on the refuel I believe I may have once before but they're basically a new liquid staking derivative project uh for ethereum here so they published their Vision today so they're I guess like LSD
Vision uh and there's a three thread and a blog post you can check out here but it's up to you guys over time we're going to see more and more of these LSD providers spin up I mean the business case and the business opportunity is just too large and they made a good point in that right now the two most preferred ways of staking eth are liquid staking and centralized exchanges whereas liquid staking has 33 of the market share and centralized exchanges have 29 but most of the liquids they can share is dominated by one player being lighter of course at 90 and that's obviously not ideal for the ecosystem so Stato is a solution here obviously bringing more uh liquid staking derivatives to the market obviously rocker pool is already live and you guys can go can go stake with them but I think that the the distinction between
like an LSD and a centralized Exchange age is kind of blurred because centralized exchanges like coinbase and binance have an LSD attached to their uh their staking uh I guess um uh staking offering so for example there's CBE and there is B eth from uh binance so coinbase and binance respectively where they they are lsds essentially but I think it's still worth splitting it out where a centralized exchange is not just an LSD like their business is obviously being a centralized exchange first and they offer staking whereas an LSD such as Lido I mean their whole business and Rocket pool the whole business is is um uh staking ethereum right or staking I mean in lighter's case it's also stacking other networks but their whole
business is staking is it's not anything else so from that perspective I think it definitely is worth splitting it out especially because it lets us break it down even further and see that right now the liquid staking Market is just too dominated by uh by lighter and that'll change over time through as I said things like stata going live and there's swell Network and and there's um there's there's a bunch of others as well stakewise V3 and uh rockerport are obviously already being live and this is just going to improve the staking uh ecosystem over time of course but you can go check out stata for yourself I'll link this in the YouTube description below for you to give a read all right so llama nodes rpcs are finally live now I've talked about llama node before it's basically a set of rpcs
that are aiming to be like I guess privacy preserving and non-censoring so they're calling it a reliable public good built for the decentralized world and you can go check out the blog post here for details on this and all the RPC details that you need to um get started now you do need a new an API key that you can get on their dashboard page here it's quite easy to set this up but once you do you can start using the Llama nodes uh I guess RPC there is also going to be a premium um a premium version of this but this is just for larger users and dapps and this is just being done to keep the lights on so as a regular everyday user even if you're a bit of a power user I think that you should be fine and you wouldn't
need the premium TR but uh yeah this this is definitely a good way to do it because larger users like super active you know more than I guess some a kind of like a enthusiast using the Llama nodes infrastructure definitely you know if you're getting a lot of value out of it you should pay for it same with dapps and other networks and things like that so just great to see this launched from D5 the D5 llama team here today uh and you can go check this out but of course you know there is llama nodes is just one RPC and a sea of them but they're definitely aiming to be the one that is I guess sticking with ethereum principles the most such as non-censoring non-tracking privacy preserving all that good stuff there all right so Mahalo from polygon put out a tweet thread today where he said one
of the frequent questions that we get is why polygon has multiple ZK efforts teams and then he says a short thread on why we picked this strategy and how it is playing out so far and you can give this thread a read I'll link it in the YouTube description below but basically I think the tldr of this thread is that they wanted to to Big on ZK Tech and get to the Holy Grail of a ZK evm in the shortest possible time period and they and my hello says yeah you know three to five years was unacceptable so basically tackling that problem from multiple angles with multiple teams allowed them to spin up the process and they basically have a clear road map for the next one to two years of getting a ZK AVM to the point where a bustling ecosystem can can evolve and people
users can use it and get the benefits of cheap fees and faster transactions and all that good stuff there but I highly recommend giving this thread a read I'll link it in the YouTube description below for you to do so all right so Cal swap has a really big announcement today where they said limit orders are now alive on cow protocol or cow swap PR so we say that limit orders on cow protocol are unlimited because Traders can set and cancel limit orders without paying gas fees use one wallet to balance uh one Wallet balance to place multiple orders and benefit from protocol generated Surplus above and beyond the prices they target uh so yeah you can read the thread for more details here and read the blog post but this is really cool I've used calcop in the past it's it's quite a a neat protocol to use
because it allows you to protect yourself against uh Mev uh which is obviously something that you want to be protecting yourself especially the toxic mov like sandwich attacks and now you can do that with limit orders and you can see here a nice little comparison uh between Cal protocol or and Cal Swap and the other the centralized exchange aggregators like Power Swap matcha and one inch uh I you know these these charts should be sorry these little tables should be taken with a grain of salt as well obviously because it's always the the project hosting them are going to make themselves look really good as opposed to the other projects but still I mean it gives you an idea of the features that cow swap has and that the other protocols don't have at least according to cow swap don't have but
yeah this as I said this is a big announcement for them and you can go check this out for yourself if you are on Cal Swap and even if you aren't I mean what a there's not been a better time to check out Cal swap with limit orders uh but I'll link this in the YouTube description below for you to check out all right last up here we have an announcement from socket which they said they are bringing a new era to Bridget so they introduced a bridge protection uh with risk Harbor today which is bringing secure and reliable bridging to pave the way for cross chain Innovation so basically what bridge protection does is it eliminates Bridge risks for protocols and users guaranteed funds even in the event of a bridge hack no hidden losses such as receiving the full amount you were quoted and experienced
fixed bridging time no more delays or uncertainty uh and then I mean there's a blog post you can check out and a little bit more of a thread here but this is really cool I think that on-chain insurance and and risk management is obviously a product that is needed there have been multiple attempts in the past at this and there are always risks around this too such as the protocol not paying out when they should be paying out or I guess like the protocol not having enough money to pay out based on on on whatever got hacked and whatever got exploited but I think that that shouldn't stop projects from continuing to innovate in this area and projects can you continuing to partner with uh things that offer this insurance in order to help users protect themselves from things like hacks because hacks are
just a way of life within D5 and within uh Bridges and everything on chain right but there are ways to protect yourself and you know this brings up another tangential Point here which I thought was quite funny I was thinking about this today and really over the last few months just generally people always make fun of D5 and unchain stuff as being like rug pools and people losing money to hacks and exploits but the biggest hacks and exploits have really happened with the centralized things over the past year uh and I'm sorry I shouldn't say biggest tax in exports I should say the biggest losses of user funds has happened due to the centralized things of this year and that includes three hours Capital Fallout that includes Terror that obviously includes FTX right uh Celsius block fi
these things totaled and I mean tens of billions maybe I don't know if I go as far as hundreds of billions but but very much tens of billions of dollars worth of losses directly for users if you tally up all the bridge hacks and all the D5 hacks and all the on-chain stuff that uh I guess they got rugged and then you also take away the fact that some of them were some of those funds were returned and you just tally up the actual losses incurred by users I don't think it can actually hold a candle to the centralized exchange losses and the centralized service loss so it really does speak to the fact that even though Defy is kind of a wild west still when on chain stuff is a wild west still and there are risks involved the risks in C5 are much greater I believe um and we've
seen we've seen a lot of that play out this year and I believe we'll continue to see that play out as time goes on but anyway I think um that's going to be it for today on that note so thank you everyone for listening and watching be sure to subscribe to the channel if you haven't yet give that video a thumbs up subscribe to newsletter join the Discord Channel and I'll catch you all tomorrow thanks everyone