S7 Ep. 1 - The book on How to DAO W/ Puncar

Transcript

welcome to the green pill. network podcast if you're just joining us we're building a coordination a network Society of thousands of hackers dreamers and doers using crypto to bring positive sum digital systems to the world this podcast features the people who are doing it and we publish a season of five to 10 episodes every couple months this season is about how to Dow I am releasing a book with my co-author pun car car who is also a dow native person and we are really excited about helping people find prosperity and to help them thrive in the frontier for time in Memorial people have gone to the frontier in order to find new prosperity new opportunities and our generation's Frontier is the internet we want to

teach people about the future of dalls the future of Internet coordination and this season of how to Dow is all about how do we do that how do we Dow how do we find more prosperity in the internet Frontier and this season of five to 10 episodes is going to be about how to Dow um the next voices that you'll hear will be myself or my guest co-host punar talking about how to doubt hope you enjoy this season see you peace hey punar what's up hey not much Kevin just you know reading a book here what book is that that you're reading um it's a how to down uh you

know I got some preliminary copies it's actually another on the shelves but you can pre-order it um if you want sounds like Alpha yeah and there are some deals out there we're being koyi uh punar and I wrote a book entitled how to Da mastering the future of Internet coordination and this episode is about that book but it's also about season of green pill that we're about to run together where we talk about how to da um one part education about how to dial in one part promotional for the book which releases on January 21st and maybe the way to start for the green pill audience boonar is getting a quick intro on you your background and then also how we got to be writing this book together I think it's been two or three years of

of work so uh yeah let's hear your intro and and how we got to work on this together yeah uh thank you Kevin and you know it was fun working uh with you on this project and also like before the book actually we worked together at gitcoin so that's how we met and before I got into gitcoin and DOW I was working at uh ey blockchain team so more like Enterprise blockchain Solutions and financial services and before that I was working at a small business uh with my father and I always admired like you know small medium businesses and that's probably what led me like over time uh back like to small medium businesses from like the Enterprise uh and now I feel like Dows are the the way to go and

I'm here to support the movement and hopefully the adoption of uh of D and what about you actually Kevin so I would love to hear like how you got into Dow maybe even before like you know we start writing the book or I got into Dow I believe you already been in the Dow so what was your first kind of interaction with Dow this is going to be a fun season because we're going to be co-hosting together but when the episode is just both of us I'm like wait am I the host or the I'm the guest well the answer is both you have to move Beyond The Duality I mean I guess like the audience mostly knows me as one of the co-founders of gitcoin and I've been uh very happy with the trajectory of that project over the last seven or eight years our mission is to fund what

matters we believe that open source software and other public goods are fundamental to the functioning of the world economy and we want to make sure that the people who are working on that are are are funded and it's kind of all about Capital allocation and how do we allocate capital in an onchain world but you know when we started in 2017 all I knew was that I was really good at funding software developers and really good at building communities of software developers I'm a software developer myself and so get coin uh started off as just being a place where open source software developers could get coin in exchange for working on open source software and over the years we evolved from the primary mechanism behind gitcoin being bounties which is just like if you do X you will get y coins

gitcoin then uh we launched a hackathon business and a bunch of other stuff and eventually landed on gitcoin grants which is you know funny because that's what we're now known for as gitcoin grants in the community and um it was just a whirlwind from 2019 to 2020 to 21 to go from kind of like a project that was a little bit unknown I mean we're funded by consensus but you know wasn't like household name and then um when getcoin grants really started to take off we were we just grew a lot and I think gained a lot of legitimacy to the community because we're funding so many software developers in the ethereum community and one of the things that I realized during that Journey was that when you're funding public goods people

want a credibly neutral Bas layer for doing that they don't have to worry that the CEO of some centralized software company is in the back shadowed Banning people or routing the capital to uh you know to people that are their friends or and away from their enemies I mean these are all you know sort of like toy examples and of course I would never do that but you have to trust me that I would never do that and so um learning about how credible neutrality is important for the base layer of a system that does Capital allocation uh I I really felt like getcoin as a company was not the right positioning which is like actually really hard if you ever worked on something for three or four years and you realize it's wrong after that like your sunk cost bias is [ __ ]

getting you and until then like Dallas had always been sort of like a toy thing to me like vitalic and Dan larer wrote about DS in 2014 and 2015 and now we have programmable money we're going to be able to build programmable organizations you know it was all very theoretical for me until the Dow launched in 20 was it 2016 I think it was 2016 but then but then like the Dow launched and then it was like a rocket that like had a rapid unscheduled disassembly like it was like oh this went from Theory to practice but it imploded so like that's not something you want to build your business on but for me a real inflection point with Dows you know decentralized autonomous organizations organizations that resemble more of a network than an actual traditional organization like

resemble more of a melium network than like an an animal networks over over hierarchies Dows were just theoretical for me until I saw Mok Dal launch so mean solman you're listening to this you're the goat thanks for Reviving DS for everyone after after the Dow nuclear winter and um when mullik Dal started taking off and I started to see a lot of my friends tokenized and dowz their projects urine Finance was a big one for me compound Unis swap I was like oh like maybe the future of gitcoin if we want it to be credibly neutral and democratically governed should be a dow and so um in 2021 we did some work to make gin grants into a dow and that achieved credible neutrality de democracy uh opened up its stewardship

to lots of other people and and the process hasn't been perfect since then but you know it's it's been a j Learning Journey of like learning about the theory a priority of why Dows should work and then empirically actually [ __ ] around and finding out and doing it uh for me and you know since then I've been involved in many Dow launches and once you get pulled down the rabbit hole it just becomes like it's like breathing air or drinking water it's like oh let's create a multisig for X Y or Z and then it becomes like something that becomes muscle memory for you so uh yeah that's been my journey with getcoin and relating to Dows and you know I think that what's cool is that it's I'll segue this back to asking you a question is like what's cool is all of the

amazing like Dow is acted as an attractor like a psychological like um attractor just means like where people go without needing to be told to go to like like getcoin became an attractor for cool new people in my life once it became a DA and I invited other people to the dance and that's how you and I met uh I think that we worked together for a little bit at getcoin in what was it 21 or 2022 and you've been Dow curious in so far as you worked at getcoin for a bit but you also did some stuff with bank list and and other Dows that I'd be curious if you take us through your journey of of working in Dows during that part of the cycle yeah happy to do so and like if you want full journey of gitcoin and cavins into Dows

you can pre-order the howto Dow book at how to dow. XYZ okay that's how to like to not to how to. XYZ pre-orders and they'll be delivered January 21st uh please pre-order the book because that will help us climb the bestsellers list and tell more people about DS but yes uh b car tell us about your journey with Dall well I you know I work in blockchain but I I like Enterprise blockchain I didn't feel it and then when I was just like you know exploring crypto projects and on the side and stuff I was like this like doubting feels cool like you contribute and you kind of get ownership and like say into like what the Dow should be

doing and as you are more involved like you get more kind of power so it's it's very Democratic um you know and I like that uh approach but I was like I don't actually know you know much about it and I'm the type of the guy who is like I get excited about things but I don't like to do research like the theoretical research but I like to do the Practical research like jump in try it out if it works how it works and like learn on the go basically uh and that's how I jumped into you know uh banglas now I was I think the first Dow I joined now they are called actually Black Flag Dow uh so they rebranded and the community uh changed a little bit but still you know

uh very cool people very uh Mission driven people there and we started uh some projects through blankas uh Dow uh funded through the treasury and you know with other people I just met at the Discord so just met online and you start new business together kind of cool and then I also jump into gitcoin I knew about gitcoin before because I work at on open source software projects before and you know the funding of that it's like just hard so I knew gitcoin is trying to like improve that so I was like you know it's align with my mission let's jump in see what I can do how I can help and I start helping and eventually I got paid for it and then uh

you know I become like a contributor uh for almost a two years uh there which was super cool appearance there but what I realized it's like I would love more people to join me on this journey in Dow so how I can like attract them and like help them to actually join me on this Dow journey and we brainstorm a little bit with other people around and we were like book is the right uh path towards probably you can you know read it over the weekend or over the holidays you get really excited you get some like knowledge uh through it so it helps you like do the first step and then you know

other people can guide guide you through you just need to find the right right down right the community and so on so that's how my journey in Dows and the book actually started and I had fun uh doing it and participating in Dow it's not always blue sky and you know it's not always like you know every month paycheck sometimes it's you know better sometimes it's worse as the market goes but it's just the people around you like it's very supportive uh I feel so I I had good time I would be like interested so my my you know experience is more from like core contributor or hoping some early projects as well but Kevin you basically like you started a big Dow

like what was some of your learning when like you actually turn gitcoin into Dow and now like how you govern that like Dow doesn't have CEO I don't have CEO so like it's not like top down that much like you have all the token holders like how was the experience for you coming from like the guy who is deciding everything to Dow I mean I'd like to think I wasn't deciding everything um but uh you know companies uh not worth spending too much time on G Co Holdings which was the name of the entity that we had uh before the Dow but um you know like before I actually answer that question at the object level I just want to provide some metal level framing uh about this and that's that you know

there's this quote from the T Ching uh the da Ching uh which is this ancient uh Asian text that goes something like the the Dow that can be named is not the Eternal da the the way that can be vocalized is is not the Eternal way and I think that uh you know that was about the philosophy of life and how interact with the natural world but I actually think that like that's very true with Dows uh as well which is that until you're really experiencing them it's it's really hard the data CH also applies to actually web three Dows in that you have to empirically experience them before you can really understand the way so it's you know we can talk about them till the cows home come home but like to actually experience it that's how you sort of get inducted into

Dows and you know my recommendation to people is to dip your toes in to read the how to book pre-order it at how to. XYZ um and then start with a small Dow don't just go sort of like Dive In The Deep End of starting a big Dow to start um you want to get an experience in working in Dow like ways Network like ways instead of hierarchical ways um before you do like a big project so I just want um you know listeners to understand the difference between empirical actually using Dows and sort of the a priori stuff that we're going to talk about here and I also think that like there's a little bit of um another analogy I would use up front here is um is this story of Plato's Cave which is basically this idea that um if you lived your

whole life inside of a cave and you heard stories about the outside world You' seen them like the figures on on the cave wall that describe what the outside world is like but you've never experienced it yourself then um when you actually get outside and you experience the real world and you get out of the cave then it's going to be a really eye opening experience for you and you realize that you lived your whole life in in the cave and you know why why is auke giv all these like crazy metaphors before he talks about Dows well the reason is that we've grown up in a financial system our entire lives and never questioned it we've been in the cave of threaten Woods of the US dollar of the Trad Financial system I worked at a bank in

20208 they're running on computers that were invented in the 1950s Plato's Cave I never questioned it until I saw it um and it's the same thing with Ds where I've lived my entire life in a hierarchical world and now I'm learning about Network works and internet coordination that's more peer-to-peer and about casual coordination my first job out of school had to wear a suit and it was very formal and buttoned up and so um I guess I just want to say like before I actually answer your question daed Jing the thing I take from that is that the Dow that can be named is not the Eternal D you have to experience it and if you've been in Plato's Cave your entire life it takes a little bit of recognizing that before you step into the world of of dows to really organize it and even then it's going to be a

process and to actually answer your question about getcoin becoming a da I think that um you know the the the thing that I'll that I'll say is that trying to turn a company into a dow is like trying to turn an apple into an orange uh uh it's they're two different forms I mean you know networks versus hierarchies and we had to unlearn a lot of hierarchical things and even then you know we still had sort of like the muscle memory of the hierarchy uh that I think we went through like a wave of contributors or two before we actually figured out how to to do things in more of like a dow likee way and so it's been an iterative evolutionary process where on the governance Forum on a quarterly basis we're sharing our learnings and we're trying to learn how to trust each

other in a network-based way you know one of the nice things about companies is that if you want to know where the company is going you just ask the CEO hey what's the road map do you want to go in X direction or Y Direction you don't have that in a dow you have to learn how to rely on each other and form consensus in groups which is way [ __ ] harder because humans are programmed for hierarchy we are programmed to have a charismatic leader that is going to be making DEC decisions and you know I think that like a great example of Dow era leadership is vitalic buan who doesn't make decisions about what happens with the ethereum network but he's [ __ ] smart as [ __ ] and he provides a vision for where things go people can disagree with him there are

eips that have been shot down um you know like the most famous example uh EIP stands for ethereum improvement proposal vitalic proposed changing gas on ethereum to Mana because he thought that that was more of like you know it has less connotations with oil and gas and it got shot down because people no we're not [ __ ] doing that um there's other proposals that he has shot down and he's the leader like in a in a company that would never happen so like he embodies a movement and not a company and I think that there's a big difference between a network and a movement and a company and a hierarchy and so I think you have to learn how to how to work in these ways and you have to be iterative and you have to evolve and you have to start small I'm on probably half a dozen no is

safe no is multi sigs so basically you know in some ways those all have uh distributed decision-making rights like that's kind of like a starter Dow like if Dows were uh vehicles and you know you could decide whether you want to start with like a sports car or like a tank um it's probably better to start with like a skateboard or a scooter and figure out how to have have your balance like no to safe is a really great way to have a dow with friends and then um and then learn to work in that way and then you can graduate to mull DS and compound style DS and then designing your own bespoke DS in a weird way I actually think that every getcoin Rance round is an ephemeral D that only lasts for 2 weeks that's a whole another rabbit hole that we could go down but anyway to

answer your question the Dow that can be named is not the Eternal da um we've been in Plato's Cave all of our life so we have to get out of it and even then you have to iterate and evolve in this Frontier and and the how to Da book is kind of meant to be your guide on this journey of of not only learning book reading about how to do it uh also like we're going to have uh digital experiences that readers of the book can join and there's actual quests where they can do dow likee things together so that they can learn in this iterative evolutionary way and also I think another important thing that I'm excited about is cohorts of learning so instead of just learning from me and you punar that would be very hierarchical if you're only learning from us you're GNA

be learning from other people in your cohort about how to Dow um and so yeah how to dow. XYZ you can start your journey uh today by pre-ordering the book Thank you and um and about the cohorts actually we are running already the first cohort uh right now and and uh we just like half halfway through and the cohort actually be became a dow uh at this point and it's like super cool uh to just like observe that so we started some like you know theoretical learnings but then we got into like more practical and the last homework was you know one group cre the multis uh what do you talk about like the simplest now possible you know and they done it and

the other group which are like a little more advanced create the Dow house uh the Mok V3 uh Dow and they already starting like making proposals on their own and the last class we had it was already the discussion like Oh how we can improve this governance process it doesn't work for us that well we couldn't coordinate well for the call you know and basically what you know I experience a d like actually D like this type of discussion is happening there as well they just like naturally when that direction as a class and you know you can see like Dows are not rocket science like it's not you should not be afraid of it it's not like something like oh I

need probably like a University degree to join a dow or like to start a dow I need like you know like expert advice and like you know spend tons of money on like legal fees maybe through like at some points but like at the very basics it's a coordination tool for people to achieve you know the common Mission and we H have the students 20 students in the class some of them never touch crypto that was the first time they installed their like crypto wallet and they are already contributing to a DA in three weeks and it's it's just awesome and we will run more cohorts after the

book launch uh probably the next one will start actually after e Denver which is on the February March uh kind of time so you know if you interested like learn more and more like practical uh examples and build uh with your cohort something uh definitely check how to down. XYZ because there will be sign up form soon for our next cohort starting after eat Denver and maybe we can touch up on eat Denver what do you think Kevin as well it's like uh something people should know about obviously I'm out of Colorado and uh for those you watching on video see my Colorado haircut standard issue long long guy hair and beard we're going to

be at eth Denver I think that we've got some engagement planned with respect to the book that will include either uh the ability to get a copy of the book at eth Denver get it signed meet up with the howad community uh details I think are still a little bit TBD so I can't drop specifics here but the book launch is on January 21st and eth Denver starts about a month later and so they will definitely be a book launch party that we'll be doing at eth Denver and um we're going to do it in a dowy way if possible so we'll try to run the book launch party as a DA itself sounds like a plan and like just like you know for people who never been at e Denver uh and you are maybe based in us like I highly

recommend you know coming uh you just sign up on their website uh there's short application form it's free so this is like probably the only conference like like at this size I know about where you don't need to pay uh to attend just need to apply and get approved and if you're a builder uh genuine person I believe you will be approved and then join us there and we will also do shelling point which is a conference uh you know gitcoin and other regions are doing pretty much every year I would say um there were some gaps maybe and how to that will be part of it uh as well so you definitely can get hands on your copy and and maybe sign by us yep yeah

that's the plan um so really excited to hang out with people and just explore this design space together there's actually a great segue into one of my next points which is that I think it's actually one of the things that I've learned about Dows it's the kind of experience that you have to learn together um and over time I've uh formed a couple of groups of people around me that are exploring design spaces for Dallas together and we can just you know if you think about it as a networks coordination problem how do you learn about this Frontier having friends that you trust that have complimentary skill sets and networks to you is actually really important so this just shout out to uh getcoin Dow which is my original Dow Mo that I've been involved in mik Dow uh compound tally snapshot uh regen

Hub green pill. Network I think is becoming dowy in in a lot of ways and then um the how to Dow network is going to I think in in in some ways be sort of like an onboarding funnel for for all of the Dows that that we know about because we're going to have hundreds of people per quarter that are reading the book and coming to the experience and looking forward to showing them the latest and greatest of technology in the um in the space and you know I think this is actually like kind of a a profound or like very important role that we're going to play in in onboarding if if we're successful is that um one of the things I don't like about crypto is that your first experience is buying a coin and listening to an influencer who's trying to sell you a bag and my vision

for onboarding for crypto which I would really like to scale is that I want you to to join and be given proper disclosures about you should be you should be careful of who you trust and you know don't just buy a coin because an influencer is doing it there's not going to be any Shilling of coins it's only going to be about learning Dow toolings in in the how to Dow book and so I'm I'm excited to provide an onboarding experience that people can trust and come in in a networked way and explore the design space together and I want to see a social immune system against like Shilling develop like just don't show me before we have a relationship you know that's like kind of like my Golden Rule and then the other important thing that I would really like to do is like there's

actually like a little bit of a Synergy with gitcoin here and gitcoin for those of you who don't know is is like a a grants platform that allocates Capital to things that matter we fund what matters is our motto and I think it'd be really cool if we could use the how to cohorts in order to run more quadratic funding rounds and get people as part of their experience earning crypto instead of just buying a bag could be their first relationship with it so tldr we can do more together the future of Internet coordination I think is is is multiplayer and Dows are a multiplayer version of crypto so excited to bring this to a new generation of of people who hopefully will see the the value of dows and I think that like one of the the really fun parts of writing this

book is um I've written like four or five books for people deep in the industry you know the onchain capital allocation book the green pill book and I'm really proud of that work but like this is the first one where we've really hammered out how the do we explain this stuff to people who are not already deep down the rabbit hole and penguin random house has been a great partner for us in figuring out how the hell to explain this to people who don't wake up and think about decentralization they're probably more concerned with their social life and their financial life and stuff like that so yeah I mean I I think that how do we explain DS to to normies because if how to doubt is successful if if you guys go pre-order the book and we climb that that bestseller list eventually we're going to spill out into

the mainstream you know what is the argument for Dows that we're that we're bringing to Everyday People you think well I think we are answering that question in the book so we should not answer it here uh but in general like I'm just like what I repeat it like it's not rocket science and we are just bringing some New Primitives which can be very useful you know and like just uh on recent discussion you know the like Joan Rogan podcast with Mark andron like about the banking of Founders like one of the advantage of D it's like you own your financial system kind of thing like you know if you open multi sick it's not like opening bank account because bank account is owned by the bank you just

like have access to it if you open multis you are the owner of the multis nobody can take it from you can lose access to it you know then nobody can help you but the good thing is like we are creating more Sovereign kind of uh organizations where you know you can be censorship resistant and in some countries it's super important actually to be that way and you are also like you know financially Sovereign in a sense like you cannot be the bank or like the transaction cannot be lost because someone else did mistake it's like on you I like the feeling of it that like we actually own our own things it's just fun to do things together with the community with the team of people which

has the same vision and uh it's all about coordination and D are like one of the best tools uh how we can coordinate uh you know online digitally but also with some of the pockets we have RL and I think like you know green pill it's a good example it's that thei now and it's like in every city or like it's in multiple cities they have the pockets they meet IRL but then they coordinate as a big group basically online and it works pretty well for them so yeah so many examples of like successful Dows uh these days and we just iterate on it and this is just the beginning and uh you know if you kind of jump on this train like you are very early so it's also

some of the upside from in just being more Innovative than the other organization so we can outpace them that's how I feel about it what do you think K like what's the the biggest value for you you would like kind know how you would Shield Dows you know it's funny because we wrote this book called How to Da and in some sense I think that you have to start with why Dows uh before you talk about how to Da and for me the answer is that there's a world of opportunity on the internet that's always evolving and if you're a young person in the world today there might not be a lot of opportunity in your local area financially socially um things that make you feel like your truest self and so for me Dows how to Dow the subtitle is mastering the future of Internet coordination um the reason

you want to master the future of Internet coordination is because there's a world of abundance out there in the internet and uh you know I really love what bankless has done bankless actually it's it's fun to talk about them here because they actually helped me start the green pill podcast David and Ryan thank you for your support and the thing that I want to say is that they have this analogy of going west um our forefathers in the 1800s went West uh at least in America this is like a mythologized part of American history but basically uh you could go west in order to find land and resources and to be more Sovereign on the frontier and I think the generations before us have always found opportunity in the frontier there's obviously the westward Journey uh that happened in the Americas where

if you were super early you're going west just on foot through the Bush through the mountains dirt roads begin to happen and then oxen uh start to go across and an orgon Oregon Trail is one of my favorite games uh back in the day and then eventually you have a railroad where people in Mass can go west without the inconveniences of walking or being on oxen and and I kind of feel like successive Generations have had opportunities in the frontier um that's that's the 1800s example another example that I that I think I've seen is like Baby Boomers just getting like really rich off of the postor War II boom that we had in America housing prices like at least where I live in uh in Colorado in Erie Colorado you just [ __ ] like if you're a baby boomer you just bought a

house for like $5,000 in 1970 and now it's a million dollar house like it's you just fell ass backwards into like opportunity and we don't have our generation doesn't have that opportunity and for me Dows are an opportunity in the internet the internet is the frontier it's not a physical Frontier anymore it's a a psychological and digital Frontier and so for me why da is because there's a frontier and there's lots of uh riches and self-actualization in that Frontier for the people who can be Sovereign enough to make the risk and to go out there and do it that's why DS for me it's it's about being in the frontier and it's about um new opportunity for a younger generation and that's what I hope to pay forward the opportunities that I've had to to thousands of people that's why da before you get into how to Dow yeah that was

the question like why people should even care about Dows and I I eventually find my way back to it uh sometimes but there's a there's a lesson in there and that's that sometimes in the space we have to meander before we come back to what we were actually looking for but uh I'm uh very thankful to you punar for being my co-author my RIT or die co-author on this navigating the book publishing industry which is probably one of the older industries that I'm aware of and something super new like the frontier has been a real journey and I'm thankful you and also Howard and Noah and everyone else at penguin Random House for making this book a possibility and um if you want to support the book and you want to support the mainstreaming of dows go to how to. XYZ and pre-order the book and um also Join

one of the Lear cohorts we'd love to have um green pill members as listeners mentors for the book and then we've got a telegram Discord setup which I think will be start becoming active soon so say hi in the telegram and Discord and and and join join us on the frontier creating prosperity for the Next Generation anything else to say as we're wrapping up gar I second that and I'm also super thankful you know uh we had this opportunity to work together on this book uh you know it was a fun Journey uh learned tons about the publishing and we probably need to do another episode just like what is the stories about like you know working uh with uh big publisher which is like not very agile uh industry and uh what we are used to uh but yeah I'm very

thankful for also everyone who contributed to the book and we will have now you know a couple podcast sessions with uh those people who contributed their stories because the book is basically also SE like selection of stories of successful contributors and founders we will be probably another 10 minutes here if I name everyone but like there will be podcast episode which each of them are telling their story um again and I'm super thankful that they share it with us and you know enable us to actually put it uh in the book so it was a community basically driven book uh in a sense with like the last mile being the publisher to get it into hands of like everyone uh

out there and hopefully that will you know spark the movement of dows and we will get more more people in it and for that we need your help so go to how to dow. XYZ and pre-order the book so we are the bestseller and then uh more Dows are popping up and everyone has this new opportunity uh from the internet yeah that's beautiful well um you can pre-order the book at how toou at XYZ um and we will be running I think it's between five and 10 episodes about how to Da on the green pill podcast uh it's going to be a continuation of guest Seasons that we've been doing thus far uh if you're listening this far hopefully you've also listened to the guest Seasons we did on retro rounds with SEL Lao and then also sa uh did a

season about uh grants and grants farmers and and this will be our next guest season and I'm going to be guest co-hosting part of the season it's weird to be a guest ho co-host on your own podcast but whatever um you're going to be doing some episodes I'm going to be doing some episodes and we're going to do I think one or two at least together and it'll be in service of of um building the how toow movement and then also educating people about Dows will be the next season so uh I am here for it anything else to say that we missed anything I didn't ask you want to say that's my my standard green pill question I don't know did we say that you can pre-order the book now at how to doubt with XYZ not sure about that and like we are also running a campaign with

Tally and common so you can actually get two books for price of one now so like you should definitely check it out uh and yeah and then I think we said everything apart from that all right well um punar thanks for being my ride or die if you're listening and you're listening to episode 210 of the green pill podcast uh I don't know if we're exactly at 210 but we're about there thank you for being my ride or die uh for this movement and really looking forward to building a future of more internet coordination and prosperity together so thanks again to everyone pre-order the book at how. XYZ and we will see you soon thank you appreciate you com all righty we just heard from pun car I'm excited about how to Dow because I think that we can lead people to more prosperity in the frontier that

is the internet we can teach them more about sovereignty and succeeding in Internet coordination in the 21st century how to Da can be a vehicle for doing that thanks for listening to the green pill. network podcast again we are building a coordination a network Society of thousands of hackers dreamers and doers using crypto to bring positive sum digital systems to the world like tart like thousands of people who are working on Dows out there if you value our work you can collect this episode go to pods . medgreen pill to collect this episode tonight and while you're here might as well make an offering to our algorithmic overlords Please Subscribe rate and review if you gratify us with likes and shares that will really help our AI overlords know about greenfill how to D and all the great work we're

doing out here peace and love I will see you next time bye [Music]