S6. Ep. 5 - Intents, Missions, and Metrics: Exploring OP GC W/ Jesse, Gonna

Transcript

welcome to the green pill. network podcast in September green pill will be hosted by the cartographers a high context community of individuals and teams dedicated to advancing the web 3 grants ecosystem they'll explore the web 3 grants ecosystem with topics ranging from novel funding mechanisms Grant councils and governance to emerging trends like Ai and direct to contract incentives this series seeks to bridge theory and practice by examining real world examples and featuring discussions with those who are closest to the action the next voice you hear will be Sav who contributes at getcoin and founded the cartographers sav will be hosting this entire season and I think that it's going to be a great season because Sav brings deep experience in web 3 grants

and capital allocation I'm excited for you to hear some of the perspectives from him and his guests without further Ado the next voice you'll hear is Sav enjoy hello coordination we are back again with another episode of the green pill podcast as you know we've done a few now on the optimism Collective and some different things going on in the ecosystem I've got with me a couple members of the optimism grants Council that I also serve on and in this Mission we're going to talk a little bit about intents missions and metrics really the the job of the optimism grants Council and for this one we're going to talk a little bit more about the the day-to-day work that the grant Council does outside of those super chain grants and so uh

with me today I've got Ghana who is the grants Council lead as well as Jesse who's a mission reviewer like myself on the council um so let's jump in so Jesse I think I'll turn it over to you first maybe give us a quick introduction and how you found your way to the grant Council yeah of course so actually I started out contributing uh in the Dow as an ambassador kind of creating content uh and also participating in early stage um governance as a delegate uh and a council member as well uh then I went to the foundation um where I was a community or a contribution manager there for a while uh now I've actually come back full circle uh to working for the Dow uh as a grants council member uh an optimism

Mission reviewer uh and also a delegate but uh I still host some optimism events like super chain demo day um and that's that's my life story thanks thanks for having me on on got give us your intro 2020 I closed shop a friend gets to me and says hey I need someone that knows how to be a developer and at the same time I manage a lot of people given my background uh and I said yeah sure I have nothing to do you know I'm lock down here and so we started ether out out to train developers at a senior level from Web Two to web three uh on a tailored manner uh but he wanted my my my my partner wanted to to do a dow so

he said you know what I'm going to train developers because that's my magic and you do everything else you know about a doubt so I was like okay I need to know what a dow is you know that's how it started uh it went well and at some point we needed a multi ethereum was too expensive for us we were a small project so we decided to go with optimism because Al was working at at synthetics that was deployed in optimism back when optimism needed to be whitelisted and so we were a public good since the beginning we still are a public good so optimism when felt right when they opened governance for public goods it was a pure coincidence but it was the

perfect alignment for us and when governance open it was like okay so I'm here my multis is here I want this to thrive I like public goods because that's how we think about it open source you know and so let's participate on this and here we are I started by applying to Grants so I lived all that process before becoming a a GRS council member then I I run Ops with Dane as a GRS Council lead an amazing guy to to be the first one to lead the gr's council and then he left and I basically took leadership of Grant's Council but what I like is that I didn't came from outside into leadership position but rather

build up that in with experience you know totally totally no we see that every day and working with you the context is definitely important and helping to connect the dots that way so we definitely appreciate that as we jump into the episode really we want to take a look at structure and purpose of the grants Council talking through kind of this concept of intents and how those lead into missions and then what you know our roles are you know in that um in terms of how the mission requests execute the intents our vric driven approach to kind of evaluating Grant impact which is something that's been really cool for me to see and kind of participate in and then just the evolution of the process over time and so um maybe to kick it off gal I'll kind of turn it over to you to just give us

the listeners you know a very high level on this concept of intents like how does the Dow Express those how does that feed into those intents becoming Mission requests and like what's the role of the grants Council in that process okay so to understand intents you need to understand that optimism governance have seasons right you you have two seasons per year and basically uh what the intents Define is the scope of the Season where what do we want to accomplish during this season you know it's a six-month period what do we want to accomplish so an intent is basically something that the foundation proposes and the token house ratifies on each season and is okay this is what we want

to accomplish as a collective during this period of of time for this season is bringing developers into the ecosystem there's many ways to do it the foundation is doing it by their own missions we are doing it on with the mission requests uh but but basically it's a way to align everyone into the same objective that's what the intent of a season is basically right on Jesse anything you might kind of add to that in terms of you know what your experience has been and kind of like seeing over time how those intents are established maybe how those have evolved and then you know your role as a grant council member and kind of helping um with the concept of mission requests and how those relate to the intents yeah um one of the things that I I kind of

wanted to add to that as well put it very basely where it's kind of you have intents align the entire Collective behind one strategic goal uh and so everybody is kind of pushing together in the same direction which also includes the kind of uh Foundation unlimited Labs uh and you kind of see that uh in intent two uh that's kind of or that is bringing chains to the super chain right uh that's an effort for uh Labs the foundation and uh unlimited whatever whatever you'd like to kind of call call that entire group optimis and then there are other intents that the grants council is kind of focused on and under

those intents there's Mission requests attached to each of those intents uh as well as kind of Northstar metrics that are associated with each one of those uh Mission requests and the kind of idea of Northstar metric is we have to have a way to um measure how much impact different types of Grants have right whenever we give them out to we using our uh our funds as efficiently and effectively as possible totally and then our job in that really is the grants Council um you know it's been really cool to participate in that where you know intents really expressions of like those Northstar goals that we want to hit as a

collective and like that wider group that makes up the collective right through that there's this concept of mission requests which you know I could almost like admission requests almost to like rfps but you know they could be ones that could be multifaceted and so you could potentially have multiple grantees or teams or individuals groups whatever applying for these Mission requests and they may be able to fulfill different aspects of it right and so a big part of our job in that is you know is the grants Council thinking through um what are those intents and then what are missions that we could propose um that would help to contribute to that and so that's our role and then as we propose those Mission requests so if I

come up with an idea and say this is a mission request it has to go through a process of acceptance and governance to essentially be ratified you know um by the the collective and then once that happens I kind of become the captain of that mission request in a way that um I Steed it you know I'm the one that has the highest context on it I own it right um but I work with the wider Grant C Council in terms of how those are evaluated driving grantees to them Etc right so maybe we'll kind of you know step there since so much of the role of the grants council is really around these missions and like stewardship of that um you know G I know there's been some changes this season where you know now we kind of have Mission requests on

like a rolling perspective um it's something where we're really driving for more Community engagement so people can propose Mission requests and be sponsored and so we're opening up that function a little bit more um maybe talk us through just what that looks like and if I'm someone today that is participating in the collective and I have some ideas around intense and how optimism may be able to address those via missions what could I do right to put those ideas together and start the process of those potentially becoming Mission requests okay to I think to understand Mission request you need to step back for a second understand that when the collective decides on an intent they

theze uh so when we get into the first weeks of the season the grants Council needs to decide how to allocate that budget in Mission requests right and that's a big part of it because you need to know many things and when I say many things it's basically understand where what the intent is but at the same time what what it's being done by op labs and the foundation uh and you need to call coordinate all that into okay these are the the issues that we're having as an ecosystem and as a gr council member I need to allocate this these op tokens into solutions for those problems for those issues you know the difference

between this season and the the previous season uh the top 100 delegates were able to propose Mission requests but being a top 100 delegate doesn't mean uh that you have the entire context or or a higher context and at the same time it produced uh something very uncomfortable where GRS council members needs to review Mission requests that they do not agree on but are voted by the token house so basically what we did this what what the foundation proposed this season was okay let's let the grants Council be that high context group that knows what is happening in op laabs or the foundation or at least knows this scope

you know uh and can be figuring out what the issues are and what the mission request we need to solve those issues we also sponsor any Mission request that we see fit it's not that it's a close gated process where we say what to do and and that's it if you if you're a Community member and you have a great idea you can put it in the Forum and we will pick it up and sponsor it I think people believe that the biggest issue is to create Mission request but for for me it's actually understanding the the issues that needs to be solved in the industry you know the thing that I'm trying to pick up from the community okay where are you having problems and how can we figure that a solution for that problem

into a mission request totally yeah I mean I see working with Grant councils often where when you're just getting started maybe you're post tge or you're looking to build out basic infrastructure you know on your chain whatever it might be some of the same things that maybe some of the super chain Grant programs are looking at you have a different Charter than we have at the scale that optimism is operating at today right we're really you know for us there it's how do you grow The Wider super chain and you know kind of this this broader ecosystem versus just a specific Network right and so when I look over time at kind of like that evolution in the early days of optimism optimism grants even when we started

with retr funding it seemed like we were more focused on like building up critical infrastructure and building out the infrastructure needed to kind of scale and I think that I've seen that we're in an interesting place now where we've started to achieve that scale obviously there's more you know l2s running on oback today um than others and so that we're seeing some great traction that way but then to your point we have to start to think about like what are the next level kind of like issues and problems that we need to solve that really unlock more of that future growth right and that can get into some we'll just say dier topics around education you know and Community engagement and these things that are really important but they can be hard to

break down quantitatively or maybe the only ways you can break those things down quantitatively can be gamed right and one could argue that tvl and active users and these metrics can also be gamed but you know so can Impressions and things that you may look at from like a social marketing perspective to show TR action right so yeah you know I I I'm curious your guys thoughts on that right I know Jesse you work quite a bit on the community side um so maybe I'll I'll let you answer there first and GNA let you kind of tag on to that as well yeah that's that's a very interesting dilemma um so I go about this kind of solving it in a different way so

speaking of like Mission requests right there was the subsidi so a very popular um Mission request that um many people in the community and the collect seem to think add a lot of value or kind of subsidized audits right and that's been proven out over I a couple of Seasons having good subsidized audit providers to provide subsidized audits projects in the ecosystem ideally helps bring in developers right and so then um my kind of thinking goes to what other services could that program apply to or could we apply that kind of model of subsidized audit Services right it's like that is is a the community the collective kind

of finds that valuable right so trying to figure out the places uh or other services that the collective uh finds valuable and then kind of building a nice process or wrapper around those services with maybe whitelisted service providers who say say I provide this marketing service right and we all know uh that this marketing service provider has proven to add value to projects in the past uh and so then maybe there's an opportunity where we have a service provider that say provides marketing or some other Service uh to projects that have been proven valuable trying to add kind of a process wrapper around that

where those service providers can then come in ask for hey I want this portion of a grant to provide this marketing or other service to this project and then somebody reviews that in some way or it's or it's verified um or kind of goes through some review process in order to get that Grant out to that specific service provider to provide that service to that project and kind of what I'm describing there is is very similar to what we have now with with the subsidized audit process where we weight list service provide or weight list audit service providers projects come in to apply for the subsidized audit services and then grants Council reviews them to give the grant or not or to

approve the grant or not we actually talked about that on the last episode a little bit where you know it's very common in kind of like the web 2 world Google gcp Amazon they have this concept of credits right and in some ways that's a little bit of what we're describing here right there's been other common kind of like accelerator models you I think polygon and others had some in the past where um they would whitelist these providers and then the wider ecosystem could tap into the help of those providers right and that would be still providing critical services and things that they need but it's a little bit more there's controls around it where we vetted and approved who can be used that way because you could run into a

situation where we give funding out and that funding is used to fund a service provider but maybe they're not qualified and ultimately that funding doesn't hit the impact you know and so we talked a little bit about this where we definitely use the audit example right the the request example we also talked about optimism as a venture studio and how as we see more applications into that if we see commonalities between those things it could really lead us to say there there could be other examples of like specific service provider type Mission requests that we should think about and that could have even bigger implications as we look at Downstream grant program super chain Etc because

remember now it's it's the optimism Grant Council but we also are growing those Downstream programs across the super chain you could run into a situation where you have lots of these new chains that are spinning up there's lots of valid service providers out there that aren't on the list right but if we have a process that vets them and kind of makes sure that um they're qualified for the work that they do that just helps with assurances from the grant council's perspective that if you're using those credits you know working with someone in some way that we have better faith in the outcomes right so G I know you had some things to kind of tag on to that I mean any thoughts from from your end I mean you have to understand that the GRS council members are members elected by the token house

right you you get elected by being voted by the token house what I think that happened uh and it's not casual but it but it's also very difficult to accomplish is that right now the GRS Council it's about 12 reviewers but if you look at them individually each of them it's an expert on something you know I mean if I if I need something about marketing or growth I'll probably ping Jesse if I need something about Grant systems and production I'll probably P Sol you know if I want to understand something about defi I'll probably go with M from synthetics and so on I mean if you look at the gr

Council it's a Dream Team you know it's like an expert on on every topic that blockchain and crypto can ever touch you know you have someone in education you you have someone in defi you have someone in Investments you have Katie it's a VC investor and I think we're going to accomplish it next season is connecting that expert with the issues that the industry are having and see how they can solve that you know so if we are having a VC problem okay let's talk with Katie you know what is what VC is like comes from the auditing thing that we that Jesse was talking uh two seasons back we decided okay but we need big firms Auditors you know Sherlocks perit

cyphering whatever we created this rfg this request for Grant where they could get a budget and we brought them in and it was great and now they are working here in in optimism so what else do we need here you know as an industry that the grants Council can bring in you know that so we are like some sort of glue between what op laabs is doing at a protocol level what the foundation is doing at a governance level and how can we glue all that stuff with users and developers of the industry you know totally yeah I see oh go ahead no go for it Jesse no I was just going to add on to that I think I think you had the nail on the head there where so much so we

have a diverse group of people in different areas of expertise on the grants Council and it's a little bit Business Development mix as well for the grants Council where you have these different people with different areas of expertise and kind of connections throughout the space and so it's kind of relying on each one of those to kind of figure out what we'll say um Mission requests or things to put forward that may bring in these projects or help existing projects uh in the ecosystem totally you know what I definitely appreciated about the whole process is you're right we are all elected members and so we're accountable to that and we need to be able to demonstrate that

we're showing value and kind of like how are we differentiated versus other members um but how do we also work in kind of like that larger group right so I think the net net for the audience is like the optimism is a collective and anyone can participate and so much of our discussions happen on the Forum right we're all barely public figures there right you can you can easily reach out and you know kind of like engage with the grants Council as a whole or individual members and so you know we encourage people to look at those intents participate in that process provide feedback come up with you know good ideas and let's see if we can work together on getting more Mission requests out there right and from our end you know we put our name on

something we're we're accountable to that we're the captain of that and so I think that you know the incentives are aligned in such a way that um it it kind of ensures that even though the process we go through in terms of making decisions on the grants themselves is fairly centralized as many like direct grants programs are there's a decentralized process around that that ensures that by the time things get to that stage that they've been vetted through the collective through kind of these different layers right that then we can really start to evaluate those Mission requests on their Merit and we don't really have to question so much is this even a grant worth fulfilling right like I think that by the time we get

something to it's an accepted Mission request there shouldn't be a question in our mind that way um and I think that is something that differentiates us at least from what I've seen from many direct Grant programs in that the people making the decisions on the allocations are typically the same people that are making centralized decisions with probably very little Community feedback on what are the grants that are actually being given out right so I think that actually leads quite well as a segue into my next Point around like the the metrics evaluation um something I've really um or the mission evalu or the the requests something I've really like enjoyed participating in as part of the process is how we evaluate the different

um applications that come in how there's layers to that process that honestly outside looking in when I came in I was like this is kind of complicated like every you've got to go through all of these stages right but now what I realize is they're all for good reason and they ensure that by the time something gets to the final stage of evaluation it's probably a fairly quality project on its Merit and then there's ways that we can break that down to an evaluation to a number a weighted score so that it makes it easier for us to kind of make final decisions on how we allocate that budget you know that Gana talked about a little bit before so to walk the audience through that

process we use Charmers applicants submit their application to these Mission requests um and then as those come in there's kind of different stages to that where we start with um intake and metrics review which is basically just a a simple review to say did you submit your application in a way that it ties back to key metrics does it make sense is this something that passes like the initial sniff test um and then as it progresses through those phases then we get to a place of like an evaluation right where we take a look at a standard rubric that's been developed by Ghana and you know the rest of the team take a look at how we give scores to these and what I found really cool is like we have that standard rubric it's across a broad range of Grants but it's fairly

generally applicable to all of them and does a pretty good job of like applying like those weighted scores and so kind of curious to kind of pick your brain around the the time that you've been here how has that evaluation process evolved right how did you get to a point that we started to develop these evaluation rubrics and when you talk I guess last point on that is when you talk about maybe getting more domain specific where if I'm the guy you want to come to around grants and incentives or Jesse's the guy around marketing and those kinds of initiatives do you see that rubric ever evolving where it's custom based on the mission request or do you see value in keeping it kind of like always generally applicable so that's like a big question but that

that's one thing I'm curious kind of your thoughts on yeah yeah there's a lot to unpack there so first of all the reviewing process goes through a rubric you know I don't know if you want to explain what a rubric is but it's basically you have a set of questions and a score for those questions and so reviewer what reviewers are doing are scoring it each question you know like uh you have it's your grand size correct zero points if it it's too much and four points if it it's the use of the op tokens are extremely well used you know so you get four points perfect the more points you have the better right that that's how we filter the evolution of the rubric was

pretty tough you know um from starting point to now basically because at the beginning we had just Builders and growth grants those were the mission requests right so you had to evaluate if you were bringing users or if you were bringing developers in two different rubrics perfect works amazingly suddenly uh next season uh we have Mission requests and each Mission request had a different scope and we ended up with I think 23 to 24 rubrics each for one Mission request that was the previous season we did it and it was fairly done you know but it was operational

intensive and at the same time it doesn't give you like um so what a general rubric gives you is a sense of what is the top score for everything that it's applying what it's the lowest score for everything that it's applying you know and you can accomplish that if you use the same scoring for every Mission request but how do you do that by reviewing a mission request properly you know and that that's that that's the point that we got now with the rubric where we experimented with so many rubrics during one year until we found sweet spot where we have a general rubric that can tell you if a proposal

has enough points to be approved you know I think it's going to evolve but I think it's going to evolve in a sense that we will give more open questions to the reviewer in the sense of uh the discretionary factors that we have today so uh for people doesn't know the rubric has three discretionary factors when you where reviewers can give zero to four at discretionary you know but they need to comment why right uh and I think uh that's great because if Jesse sees a lot of potential in in an application and wants to give more points he he has a way to do it and he

has a way to justify why he's doing it you know and we trust on his expertise and the same goes for every uh council member so that's how the the evaluation process evolved but there's a little secret there that I always every time that I work on the rubric what I'm asking myself is okay how do I say no to a friend I mean a friend calls and says hey I'm applying for a for a grant can you help me out you know can you pass this grant because we are friends and it will suck to our personal relation if you say no and I'm like you know what here is the evaluation process here's the rules yes you know and that saves me

from corrupting the grand Cil you know uh which is great and I love it um and I think it's a great way not just to avoid my friends from extracting op tokens when when they shouldn't is anyone's friends you know we are 12 members uh you have six people scoring your application so even if Kevin has a friend or Jesse has a friend or Jack has a friend you know it that's doesn't matter he a he a very fair scoring presence totally what's been your experience with that Jesse in terms of like working through that and I think we've all got those reach outs from Friends of I really think I should apply

to this definitely helps you know with those types of answers where it's like well here's the process and here's how it'll be evaluated you know but like what what's that look like for you kind of participating in the evaluation process yeah I think um going to hit the nail on the head again there going to hits nail on the head a lot of times with kind of structuring a system of grants that is I don't want to say Incorruptible but um it's less likely to be corruptable right and so because you have kind of shared responsibilities of everybody reviewing these different grants the original question was what was my or what's my kind of take um or my experience with kind of friends coming to me uh and asking for Grants first kind of example my head is

actually a non- crypto related one I actually had friend who is a plumber call me and say he was starting his own small business and was like could you get me a grant and I was like you're not even on the blockchain luckily I haven't had um anybody who I was who I've been friends with um come and like asked for a grant however they have asked for my help uh with a grant right like what should I put on this give me suggestions can you give me feedback um and one thing that I've learned is uh you have to be careful to make sure that you're saying you know this is my personal opinion right I am one of 12 reviewers on the Grant's Council um and I may not even uh

be reviewing your evaluation and if there's kind of a conflict of interest uh you should definitely excuse yourself from reviewing um any applications that you might have a conflict of interest in especially if you uh would potentially uh gain or benefit uh from the grant um at the uh if it if it was approved um but yeah it's a it's tough situation to navigate because you're trying to give them or you're trying to be kind of responsive um to them and not give them kind of cold shoulder because you want them to stay in the community and you want them to get a good feeling from interacting with the optimism community and the grants Council but at the same time you have to kind of tread tread that line and um be careful um of the advice that you of the advice that you

give them yeah you you also need to understand what rubric does right the top score column of a rubric where you get the Four Points it's telling you what the GRS council is looking for you know as a group not as a as an individual not as me as a leader it's just okay the the rubric is conceived by the entire Grant Council this is the top score answer that you can get right this is what we are looking for this is what we are aiming and if you're not getting elected if you if you're not on the top score then it means that your project is missing a key point or a few key points into that top score you know into what

the grants council is looking for so the the great things about the the rubric is just not a way to filter applications but also a way to show what the grants council is looking to achieve you know yeah and then we don't have members you know on this this meeting with the grants council is wider than just the mission reviewers the grants Council lead you know we've got members of what I would call kind of like the grant Ops team that works with GH so bunck isn't on the call today but he's the Beating Heart of a lot of what we do he helps with like load balancing of all the applications and just kind of making sure that things you know run generally well and I think he does a

great job at that we have the developer Advisory Board um which is a function that could kind of help us with more technical reviews to gun's points earlier like you know sometimes there's evaluations that happen that are more technical in nature right and even though you know I've been around and worked in you know crypto and participated in the space since 2017 um I'm definitely not the guy that you want evaluating kind of like smart contracts on their Merit and safety and those types of things and so we have Technical Resources we can tap into for that kind of stuff and then where all this feeds into that I find kind of interesting and I'm still learning a lot about that process is if we're evaluating things through a rubric and we're expecting common metrics and

those metrics have to contribute back to the intents right there's a follow on team that kind of helps with accountability right and so their job is really taking a look at are we achieving those Milestones are we hitting the metrics for those Milestones is that creating the impact back to the collective that we anticipated right and you know for the listeners there's some really interesting things going on with optimism today I mean they're a very Progressive player in the space when you just think about grants and incentives where we touched on this with the sunny Awards you know that we're kind of working on a little bit too where how do you start to take and find more

verifiable metrics how do you tap into the wisdom of crowds through retr funding whatever it might be and use that to kind of surface um how you make decisions on allocations and you one thing I've really appreciated about participating in this ecosystem is you have like a variety of ways that that's happening right like there's experimentation happening with the sunnies which I think is going to eventually lead to more almost direct contract incentives and taking human decision making out of it where it's like verifiable metrics you have retr funding right and kind of looking at things and funding based on previous impact and getting where that's less and less subjective and then you have the teams with the optimism grants Council

and the foundation that are doing more direct grants but putting systems in place that ultimately tie all those things back to the metrics right and so you know for anyone out there in the audience that you're developing an ecosystem today definitely the advice I would always give is like what are the outcomes that you want what do you want to achieve and what is success going to look like six to 12 months from now and how are you going to know you got there or not right and I think that what I've seen over time with Grant programs is sometimes Grant programs can really just be a function of marketing and creating Buzz which is great crypto runs on narratives but at the end of the day you don't want to look back and say what did we actually do with all of those tokens

right and I think we've seen that a few times um especially with you know the uh early Grant programs that were kind of spinning up I mean it started with the ethereum foundation and you know even like research type grants right and you saw just an explosion of programs in the last bull market and that's personally where I got involved in all of this and I just find a lot of interest in this topic is Grant giving has been going on for a long time ever since you know uh countries have been printing currency you know creating you know that kind of value some amount of that issuance has gone to public goods and funding you know infrastructure you look at open source software development and um look

at how much that's contributed to like human progress over the last few decades but when you look at the those things they're still mostly operating on like Legacy nonprofit Grant giving fundraising you know type approaches and and grant-giving approaches and I think that that's one of the cool things that's happening in the crypto space is like we can program our money we can program our values in it we can verify things on chain we can look at reputation we can take all of these inputs and ultimately tie those to the impact of the output you know and kind of like allocations right so you could tell I'm biased as I say all of those things but I'm seeing all of that happen across the collective right and like these different approaches that we have to Grant giving so we're coming up on the end of the episode I think I would

kind of like leave our guest each with you know a question and maybe Jesse I'll start with you what do you see kind of like the evolution looking like like we finished season six I think we're on track to consume the budget against these Mission requests we've seen the applications rolling in like my experience has been great and I think we're on track to achieve the things that we were asked to do as you look at kind of like future season just maybe your opinion your thoughts on that how could you see the work that we're doing evolving um and maybe how could you see the grants council members like our roles evolving we kind of decide it together right so I think in future like the great thing about uh optimism governance right is that it's

iterative in nature right so we have seasons we adjust based on um what we've previously seen the entire system uh but the real important thing is that we figure out how to structure it uh how to structure these future Seasons together as a collective which includes the foundation unlimited uh Labs the grants Council and everybody else in the community especially the top 100 delegates uh and feedback Council um and so I think that we have this um this Council it's called the feedback commission where the kind of foundation is able to kind of put plans forward for future seasons and then the or a a group of high context community members uh are

able to kind of look at that and go back and forth with the kind of structure um so that we can kind of put something together that would be beneficial and agreed on um by the most people possible or would maximize uh future Seasons um together as a collective right on how do you see that evolving Ghana I think what Jesse is trying to to say here is that when you get more people to agree on something you are it's a game of coordination right so what we're trying to achieve here is coordination between so many different things that are happening and this goes back to to just basic things like um you know money is a

coordination game it's a language right so ether it's a language and what we're trying to achieve here is a different language to coordinate ourselves when you think about okay what what's my coordin ation game is what what is the value that I'm bringing into that coordination right so for me for example I I never wanted to be gr Council lead but I understood that my biggest skill was to coordinate you know uh I'm not a expert developer I understand code but I'm not an expert developer I'm not a finance guy I'm not a so I said okay I don't want the

leadership and I don't consider myself the leader as as someone that is high there making big decisions but more of a okay I have the all these experts they are all experts in something and I need to coordinate their Vision you know and that's I think what what it's going to happen in the future and where grants Council goes for the next season is okay now we figure how to coordinate the GRS Council as a GRS Council perfect now let's coordinate beyond that with the Council you know let's coordinate the vision of op labs and what op Labs is doing inside with the gr Council let's coordinate the the foundation vision and

what they are doing with the grants Council you know and what else we can coordinate let's go one by one and let's try to coordinate everything that we can without giving all the power to gr council at the same time you know we we want gr council member to be and everyone one else deciding by themselves and we we'll just become like a bridge for everyone to be coordinated you could not have given me a better segue to end the episode as everyone knows I'm sitting in for Kevin aukee uh this season um for green pill uh and as many of you have heard auke say many times right it's it's all coordination and it always has been you know and I think

that when we look at the function of Grants and kind of like incentives and allocation um it's been exciting to see you know how this process works for sure and so we'll drop in the show notes for everyone that's listening you know details on how you can find the current list of intents we've got those posted on a page um in Charmers where you can take a look at those encourage everyone in the audience to go and check out the optimism go Forum if you haven't already um lots of information in there it's an open place where anyone can contribute you know if you've got good ideas or feedback right I would just encourage everyone like be constructive you know I think it goes back to kind of that old um I think it was Teddy Roosevelt that kind of said like whining or complaining

without a solution is whining you know and so I think that there's an opportunity that way where like what are the solutions you know optimism uh goes through a process that expresses its intense we've talked about how you know we drag missions out of those so we're open to anyone in the collective proposing Solutions right to the intents and the things that we want to solve for and sponsoring that and for me personally I hope you know when we move in kind of like the direction going forward um you know I'd love to continue to participate in this process and I think that you know being able to play each more to our individual strengths but then depend on the the coordination of that greater Collective and how we achieve the intents is going to be exciting to see so appreciate everyone you know for jumping on the the show

today it was definitely good to to pick your brains and um looking forward to working with you both as we uh we finish out the season yeah thanks for having us [Music]