S4 - Ep. 20 Grassroots Economics W/ Will Ruddick

Transcript

welcome to the green pill. network podcast if you're just joining us we are building a coordination a network Society of thousands of hackers dreamers and doers using crypto to bring positive sum digital systems to the world this podcast features the people who are doing it and we publish a season of five to 10 episodes every couple months this season is lean mean Capital allocation machines Capital allocation is the process of deciding how to spend or invest resources and with web 3 we can create new capital allocation mechanisms that were not possible before we can acheve public goods funding achieve protopia achieve local community coordination so how do we build cryptoeconomic systems that precisely allocate Capital at small and large scales what are the coolest experiments these are the themes of green pill

season 4 lean mean Capital allocation machines and today I talking to will Ruck who is a physicist turned Economist and an optimist he is the founder of Grassroots economics in a Kenyon based non which is a Kenyan based nonprofit Foundation Grassroots economics envisions a interconnected world of cosmol Local Economic ecosystems harvesting Community Prosperity peace and regeneration um to achieve this Grassroots economics has been running out a pilot of Community Asset vouchers in 2010 and began developing the sarafu network of vouchers in 2015 as of April 2023 there are they have helped over a 100 communities across Kenya South Africa and Cameroon in in issuing their

own Community Asset vouchers and have seen over a million personto person on chain interactions since 2018 so will is building Capital allocation systems and what I think is really interesting in talking about will is how he brings not only a priority wisdom about how to build these Capital allocation systems what he calls commitment pooling and how they are rooted in ancient wisdom and uh I think he also brings this blockchain experience bringing them on chain within the C ecosystem but also just the empirical experience of rolling them out with these these communities he is on the with these communities actually rolling them out side by side and I think that there's not a lot of people in crypto that are really embedded into the communities that they're trying to

serve and man what a legit episode I think that you're really going to enjoy this episode with Will Ruck so let's get into it hey Will how you doing I'm good Kevin excited to talk about Grassroots economics can you tell us what is Grassroots economics and what have you all been up to yeah I mean the the name came from like it's called uchumi mashinani originally and it was like Blades of grass are really weak by themselves you know together they're strong and economics comes here from the word Caya which is like the Greek oos which is the sort of a a holonic phrase that involves Like Home Society sacred forest and all the resources so it's

just the idea of you know how do you do resource coordination together as people that's that's where the name came from and and uh and building a foundation around that was kind of the idea of you know really grounding Us in in that concept so most of the audience listens on audio but people who are on video can see that you're actually embedding in the communities that you're serving can you tell us uh where where you're recording this podcast from I'm in a little village called cirba just like 10 minutes south of a small town called kifi which is like an hour north of Mombasa which is on the coast of Kenya yeah and I we I've lived around here for about 15 years now and have a family here and just this is home now yeah yeah I'd be curious to pull the thread on

some of the work that you're doing with with Grassroots economics and you know how studying these local communities and employing these these activities has borne fruit and I guess which project should we start with I would jump right into the commitment pooling work I mean that's kind of been the the focus of the last few years I came into this through Community currencies and that's kind of taken an interesting turn in the last few years as well well uh we just did an episode on community currencies and uh got a lot of positive feedback on that one I be but but yeah let's let's pull the thread what is what is commitment pooling and how does it serve your mission yeah so you know the idea is that people are are able to express some form of commitment and I mean this comes

from a you know really ancient practices of othing and and Community reputation systems where people like groups of Neighbors whole Villages would commit to days of work different resources in a reciprocal manner you know for for different Seasons different types of tasks and so there was a very complex you know non-monetary system that was based on shared commitment and so if you imagine like you know instead of using the word currency you just talk about value signaling or signaling your intention and commitment you would have a a polycentric you know non-monetary system that is based on mergers of commitment so the idea of commitment pooling is just to say what's the vessel kind of like what's the yin that holds

the yang of the of the intention of the of the commitments and so we moved from talking about Community currencies to really just working with communities to express their values and commitments and their offers to each other putting those into a shape or a vessel that enabled flow between them and that's that's just mirroring or you know really almost biomimicking these super super ancient practices like where I live in this Village it's called muia and um and it's basically how people people have been uh doing you know asset managements for for beyond what we have memory of it's probably even prelingual a lot of these Traditions you know I I think that one

of the emerging themes during this season of green pill which as I was telling you were recording before is is all about Capital allocation what are the ways in which we're going to allocate capital in the 21st century one of the emerging themes that that came up my episode with Scott on on local community currencies is uh taking very ancient practices things that existed for the Industrial Revolution and Reviving them in the 21st century in a digitally native context and so I think that there's a lot of wisdom in things that we've done for thousands or in some cases hundreds of thousands of years yeah and uh bringing them back for the for the digital age there's this there's this idea of the Lindy effect in crypto which is the longer something has existed the longer it's likely to continue existing yeah and um so I think

it's really interesting that you're would you say you're Reviving these practices or just kind of continuing the lineage of of practice in in a new way and both I mean it's it's sort of you know like there's there was a tapestry at one time where these spans you know like poly centrically like connected pools where you'd have shared commitments across different groups that would span Clans you know villages to Clans to out to tribes across all of Africa all of China I mean basically all indigenous cultures had some version of this and it's still there in some places but it's like that fabric has been ripped apart and really like predatory capitalism wage slavery all that stuff essentially was was able to kind of rip that fabric apart rip that social Fabric

and you know these were the original aggro forestry Land Management Systems as well they're like small weekly Cycles like you'd have a four week four- day week you'd have three of those days where you're doing these rotational practices and you have these like much longer Cy seasonal Cycles yearly cycles and like 50e Cycles where you're rotating farming around and to do aggro forestry and all of that really just got just just eaten like almost like you can imagine a a predator or parasite going in and eating that social Fabric and so it's still there in like little pockets and a lot of it even transitioned into stuff like uh tabletop banking you know or Maro rounds like cash roundups where they put in cash and they take turns

pulling from that Commons of cash except they lost the ability in a lot of cases to identify their own assets the only asset that that they can use today is other people's tokens or the national currency and so you get you end up with a lot of I mean this is really common even in the crypto world where people who make some token they want you to use that token as your credit system or as your rotational system and they they don't enable people to really Express their own assets and their own commitments with each other it feels like a lot of your work is revisiting those local practices that have existed for thousand in my notes they're called wisdom practices maybe take us down that

rabbit hole I mean there's a lot of like interesting framing around what these things were called and or what they are and so you had early like anthropologists going in and calling they would come to the coast of Kenya and say oh these people are just really nice and they're just helping each other and they would call it like a gift economy but they didn't actually study how it actually interconnected and work what were the rules of managing those Commons and these were non tangible or intangible Commons so like all of like ostram Elanor ostrom's rules apply they're not physical Commons it's a Commons of commitment I we even call them economic Commons in some cases so there there you know like the study of these things if you look in Academia they're called rotational labor

associations in some cases but there's very little study of what you know Prem monetary resource coordination actually looked like and yet these things were totally ubiquitous you know almost everywhere in the world had some versions of these so I think we' really I mean even me for 10 years living in Kenya I brought this idea of oh let's you know everyone make your own currency well let's make local currencies and I I really I didn't look at these practices even locally they had sort of been like oh this isn't important anymore all we need is money you know there's an addiction process from sugar into in you know and spices into uh into money that was really the you know Imperial monetary system that was the technique of colonization so that's kind of where we are today and

you know building that rebuilding that Network I think is is something that you know we can do in a in blockchain in a very powerful way that we could not do with human brains right so if human brains were the you know like evm you've got a virtual environment that has memory it's got uh authentication and it's got an execution layer right so you have this ability in a village to say yes we have the memory Ledger we might have Chiefs and Elders they might have you know in some cases tally sticks and things like that you have execution layer around agreements of contracts and you have authentication around like which family are you from and everything like that but that wouldn't translate or

very hard for it to translate fluidly and in real time across communities in larger and larger case so doing larger scale resource coordination was difficult at the time and so the British and and you know the the colonists were able to basically pick off those systems and basically be predators against them and so that's kind of the idea is like can we use the systems we have today like you know distributed Ledger systems and really pull those things together in a way that they can really support each other across whole buo regions are you actually doing this stuff on chain or is it more about Reviving the cultural practices in interest or is it is it both it's both I mean I I think the the blockchain has added a layer I mean first of all especially where places the

these have died or in places where they're not really networked together to have A system that enables that expression of value in a in a public way right these are my offers to the community and that you can pull those and connect them together um there's really no systems like that right now I mean for the most part they've they have died out in most of these areas and so using you know a consensus layer right like blockchain to say I'm going to publicly say Okay I I can offer Tomatoes I can offer this labor and then allowing communities to curate those you know into pools into Network works that enable reciprocal trade among those I think is super powerful and and that those Commons which on blockchain is

like a like an escrow account you think of it like a liquidity pool on Unis swap it can hold many assets within it you know any erc2 token so we've got vouchers that go in there those are expiring commitments against product uh denominated in National currency so they're like stable coins right stable coins backed by product like a gift card right and then you have other digital asset like we we we put even like a usdc into those pools as well right so you can actually seed those pools so you create this Commons where people who have utility within the community have access to that Commons reciprocally right so they put in their vouchers to

pull out whatever assets are in there up to some limit you know so you don't get Overexposed to to one side um and so yeah it's it's all on chain I mean since we've been on chain since 2018 we started on their original POA blockchain we moved to xdi which turned to gnosis we built our own blockchain for about a year and a half called kitabu um and then we've moved on to cell and we've become one of the the top validators now on cell so that's been a huge transition for us it's been awesome yeah it it's sort of interesting to hear all of the different ways that you've gained this this experience like being embedded in these communities locally that you know like the

blockchain and mechanism design and just studying the history and putting that all in a pot and and stirring it there's not a lot of people who are working on these things that I think are as deeply embedded in the wisdom traditions in in the community uh as you are I I don't think we know even right now I'm sure there's more and more and more out there and I hear people taking the tooling like understanding the the virtual environment of blockchain as this like cyber social infrastructure that you can do all kinds of stuff with and I think you know we've been wrapped up in oh tokens token tokens it's like wrapped up in Yang like everyone expressing expressing value in some way but but very few people are that I hear are really like creating containers for it and that's what would the beauty of the

original bankor you know liquidity pools and Unis swap which that those are essentially like more like Yin instruments right they hold value and enable flow between things right and Dows are the same right ideally they're they create space for flow and agreement rather than just always expressing the next token and the next token so I I'm I'm enjoying that process of really pulling apart like whenever I hear someone say currency or money I'm like well are you talking about the value expression or are you talking about the container that gives those relative value in meaning right so people talk about credit all the time well it's like you can't have credit or debt without a without a system that enables that to happen so I think that's what that's

what I see in traditional instruments is that they really really there's a lot more focus on the container there's there's no currency there's a currency kind of space that enables flow right and I think you know like Unis swap is is is a beautiful system but it forces people into a specific relative value system using using bonding curves the same with the original bankor and I think that there's a lot of other ways we can do pricing you know relative value and I I see communities do that all the time so you know what we've built in terms of the commitment pooling protocol is kind of a lower level protocol to Unis swap you could use a bonding curve if you want to but you're not forced into it you could use all kinds of instruments to do pricing rather than just purely that so I I

really like you know it's a very simple protocol you don't have uh pool tokens automatically so you don't have these which can be considered Securities by the SEC so you know you you have an instrument that is I think much more axiomatic than what we have in our typical dexes you know decentralized exchanges let's keep going down the rabbit hole tell me more about commitment pooling I'd love to hear about the elements why you think they're they're important so why are you excited about commitment pooling so in a village imagine this I mean just I I always go back to the that case because that's where I am here there you have a bunch of people that have some expression of value right they've expressed that they're willing to do this amount of work for each other they they want some form of reciprocity when doing so right

so they're they're putting these these assets their commitments into this into this Commons right this py cyber social comments right this memory system and then they're they're saying I need to draw upon that that comment of assets so what they're doing is they're pushing in more of their commitments they're pulling out the commitments of others and saying hey everybody I have your commitments I need you to come to my place and work on my farm I need your whatever you've promised I need your Tomatoes I need your haircuts I need your uh you know uh tutoring and and training I need you to work on my farm so they have those people come and do the work you pay P them back really they're settling their debts they're settling their their commitments really

that's the even the term Finance comes from that you're you're reaching finality and settlement right F in Italian be you know the the the end of you know credit and debt coming back together into finality and you're building assets and you've left your commitments in the pool and then other people are going to draw on those and generally they'd be like doing turn systems but it can be asynchronous as well and so so that system what does it involve it involves curation like you like with any Commons you have to Define it who has access to that Commons which assets are in there it's super important right so curations be there's a limitation where you say how much of those assets can go into the commons

right so you don't have overexposure to to to one particular asset right so if I say you know the the Aoki voucher billions can go in and yet everyone else is is you know uh thousands then you you'll end up with a system that has tons of AIS which could be cool but it could be that could be too much for the community and then you have a relative value system and we use something that's called a price Vector which is basically you know imagine that each token or each voucher that's allowed into this pool has a relative price relative to everyone else right so it's a single number per per voucher so you end up with that acting as kind of like a an intrinsic unit of account

and you can you can adjust that you could adjust it on a bonding curve if you want you could adjust it manually so it's and so it's up to the curators or the stewards of that pool to to manage that so you can get into all kinds of governance issues around that and then you have a an exchange system right so you can have uh fees on that right so like exchange fees you could you could benefit people for providing liquidity you know there's all kinds of sort of business logic in a way like how does this relate to that in terms of exchange and so those those are sort of the four elements and so we've built the the contract to have four interfaces so you can Implement those four elements in whatever way you choose right and as long as you you do it within the

protocol they'll all be able to connect to each other so each pool right just like in Unis swap the Unis swap pools you can have routes through them it's all really interesting and it feels like you're sort of like really defining the design space in a really great a prior way I'm curious to switch to empirical can you tell us who's using this and and how are they using it what have you learned by putting it in practice okay so the for years and years we've been working with Community groups and what we do is we we first of all do a what's called this Visionary approach to Community Action planning and so like the first steps is like a lot of asset mapping coming up with common Visions you know for families and for groups like what are they building what are they trying to do with their farms and

all that stuff and then you take we usually take like a rubber band you say what's the tension between those two things like here's where you are here where you want to go how do we release that tension and then we come up with you know like Smart Action uh steps and then we say well okay you've got these assets you got this Vision how do you coordinate those assets as groups to reach that Vision right how would you coordinate your resource which is essentially economics how do you do economics and um and then the question is usually well how did your ancestors do it you know how would you have done it without you know enough National currency to begin with and whatnot and that's where these instruments now start coming into play we say okay great there was a system it it it operated with

these basic principles we kind of agree on what those kind of like core principles are which kind of we reinvent kind of commitment pooling with the communities in that way like what what do we need to make that work how would your ancestors have made that work and you say okay great you know here is a here's a set of digital tools to make that transparent and to connect across regions to do so right so we introduce the those tools in that process of of going from your current reality to your vision here are some tools to go along that step so that's that's what we do in community groups we also do that with like business networks as well I mean if you're building starting with a group that already has some trust with each other it works much much faster and so

with with a community group that is already somehow together generally they're making one single voucher for the entire like Cooperative right and they're trading that single voucher they're spreading it out between them they're exchanging it with each other right so you end up with these little Loops if you go to like viz. surf. Network you'll see these little clusters and and then those clusters are now part of bigger and bigger networks right so so that's one voucher one expression of value actually is backed by many goods and services of each group right so you have a bunch of you know so you have a bunch of utility behind one voucher it's a promise you know it's Kenyan Shilling denominated so still like stable coins backed by

utilities and then you have another one in the neighboring community and sometimes communities have multiple of these and you have people in several groups often as well and then you you end up with that pooling going on and so if you look at our website right now we have very simple sf. network has a a pool section you can see a few pools there and essentially that pool is full of a certain amount of of each voucher they're able to exchange against each other and people can also put in Dollars into those pools as well so someone can go in and say you know I I mean to be very real we're still in a a you know total addiction to National currency there's no you know like yeah we're not dealing with isolate I mean we're

working with refugee camps working a lot of rural places but it's still you know like the lifeblood of the of of the communities I mean sugar the same way like 40% of people's income is spent on sugar right with huge amounts of diabetes this is all the way back to you know the early Arab traders and Portuguese coming here huge addiction to it and so so the idea of bringing in and seeding those pools with national currency has been really you know with other tokens other assets has been a way to bring their tokens into the pool to begin those Cycles right and so like bringing them back together without expecting them to do it on their own right this sort of

and self-seating is possible and we have groups that do that self-seeding but it it's if you bring in some seed that that it's like a catalyst to start so that's my you know like Capital allocation that's what we're doing with our block rewards from the blockchain that's what we're trying to get if you're a donor or a uh you know a liquidity investor basically it's like how do you create a garden so if you imagine like that you can create a pool that's your portfolio of assets and your goal is not just to invest into those utilities but to actually enable them to exchange with each other right then you're getting into liquidity provision you're a different type of an investor at that point but that I think that's a beautiful process and it really mirrors what we do in Copic Agro forestry you

know permaculture you're you're trying to you're you're bringing all these synergistic life forms together you know through you know micro risal fungi connections right you want them to be in communication with each other you're not investing in individual assets and isolating them you're actually trying to build ecosystems and I think that's that's the systems that you that those were the Prem monetary systems that we used to live among and so we just need to rebuild that fabric we've had you know 200 years of parasites pulling it apart and that's the the change we want to see is you know rebuild that that social infrastructure I just want to take a moment to direct The Listener to viz. sarafu network so if you're listening on your phone click on the

show notes and click on viz. serafu network and I've got it up on my screen and I just want to say that it's really incredible to me to see the visualization of these commitment pools and to be able to see how they cluster together and not only see the relationships between the people in the pool but actually be able to click out and see them on chain is really incredible the data set that you that you've come up with here and I think it it it speaks to the depth of your work the fact that there is so much onchain activity and it can be visualized in this way I I would be sharing my screen if uh Zen Caster had the ability to do that but it's really a rich data set of

experiments that you've created here and these commitment pools look like they're rich with activity I can click through cellos scan. links and and see the transactions that are occurring and um yeah I just want to make sure the listener listener can see v.s. network I and if you think imagine if you could visualize the network of Unis swap I haven't seen a website doing that but it's not it wouldn't look terribly different it probably would have less clusters there'd be a lot more centralization through eth or something or cusd or usdc or something like that but like if we can imagine that what we're doing with decentralized exchanges is actually connecting you know expressions of value together right it's

a really beautiful thing and so what are those commitments what are those expressions of value on chain that we're actually dealing with and you know I mean to get away from the last you know 15 years of sort of tokens and all this kind of stuff that that don't have real promise to them right so that's what I look for in a token or I say what's the promise is there is it promising is the US dollar promising what is that promise and if you look at the colonial script it was a promise to not be beaten and put into a labor camp that was the promise of you know and and it's still kind of the promise of the US dollar you know to some degree like and so that that's what I like about really tapping into you know that's why we use

the term instead of liquidity pooling or liquidity pools which really says that the purpose is just purely liquidity like is to really tap into intention what form of intention is it is there a commitment there you know tell me about the Grassroots economics Field Guide it looks like that's a that's a resource that you've got right here in the notes what is the field guide and who who is it designed for I mean that was originally designed with like we started with we've been working with a Red Cross for about six years now we we've been in refugee camps refugee camps are doing amazing they have you know people from you know Ethiopia South Sudan Uganda all coming together and they all have different names for the same

tradition this this commitment pooling is what we've been calling it so that's really cool the Somalians call it goob go o b and um and so with red cross we've been trying to create field guides so most of our work nowadays is not to do the implementation ourselves we kind of we have our groups we're not really we're not trying to scale that we're trying to teach other organizations to just use the protocols you just do this do it you know and so that's most of our work and so you know for them they've got Red Cross volunteers and field officers this is a way for them to do like TOS trainers of trainers so go out you know that that thing is way too long that field guys so we have like a bunch of like one pagers that you laminate and so they've got these kind of like steps

and um and so they're they're going out there we call them Grassroots economists so they're they're going out there they're teaching groups how to express their value create a token create an erc20 token so we have a little website to do that you can go to sofa. network and make a voucher people are doing that around the world already we've got we've got almost every continent now and then they're they're putting those into pools together what they're doing as well is that those field officers those guys going out these Grassroots economics e Comas are getting paid in those vouchers and so that's really important for sort of virality right nobody can pay for that work necessarily but the if the Community can pay for it then you've got something really cool right and that's

how a lot of uh scaling approaches have had started in the humanitarian space where if you can get the community to pay for that service of course they can't necessarily pay for it because they don't have any money well what do they have well they have all kinds of they've got tons of assets they they're really abundant actually right but they don't have Financial assets that you know US dollar assets they don't have National currency but they do have other stuff and so if they can make promises for their tomatoes and whatnot and pay for that work in those that's what that field guide is kind of getting to is just saying well you could go out there this could be a profession for you you know maybe not full-time you know or maybe it can depending on how many groups you have so they're paying you in

those vouchers you can use them back in the communities for goods and services you know daycare all this kind of stuff and you can pull them into networks that enable them to trade across so you can build a garden right that's what we're trying to get done on the community level and we're also trying to do that on the you know Family Foundation level as well right build Gardens it's a difference between like working with communities to to see that they can self-seed that they are abundant they can put their own Capital into these right and as well as working with donors and all those kinds of folks to say well you guys can do the same you could be divesting from your dollars building these types of networks so for the listeners that want to check out the Grassroots economic Field Guide there's a link in the show notes lots of good

links in the show notes so open up your podcast player and and check that out I think that we're we're getting towards the bottom of the hour so maybe I'll move into into my final questions if you're maximally successful what is the world look like in 10 years so take us forward to 2033 and uh are there commitment pools all across the world what does the world look like it's completely normal for people to express value in an erc20 token for one right so that if you're doing an employment contract whatever it is you're expressing your value just the same way like a bus company makes bus tickets or a gym makes subscriptions those can all be tokenized right those are simple value Expressions um that's for one that that just becomes normal and I think

there's a lwh hanging fruit there because businesses have loyalty points is the same instrument airtime you know airtime of uh telecoms right it's the same legal instrument these are all just totally legal normal instruments so if we can normalize that beautiful right get you know coupons business you know all kinds of those contracts they really you know called credit obligations IUS and whatnot so that's one thing to normalize the other is do that in a formalization that can be pooled right so that those things if they are expressed in a certain way on chain they enable this this form of pooling right and then you get curators right that you know just like you have Spotify curators

and whatnot like you incentivize that so that there's a reason for me to say oh here's all my utilities out there that I need here's all my assets let's put those into curations right which create Commons and and create flow among those and then those all connect to each other so yes like a polycentric Network across the world of those and I think you know Unis swap is an example of that I think it's is sort of limited because of the way they do value systems within it so I think we can we can attract a lot more people when we get rid of the the force bonding curves you know and we allow multiple assets into pools right it just it makes total Financial sense to do this stuff and so I think that's that to

me is the approach also starting with national currency in those pools as seating like that's a no-brainer right if I want to make a a vending machine where I sell my vouchers for dollars that's a very simple little pool with fixed exchange rates it's so simple right I don't need a fluctuating bonding curve for that it doesn't help me at all right and so that spread out across the world Ena flow to happen because those all can route you know through each other and they can route locally they can you know routing algorithms we need a lot of web 3 kind of routing uh protocols around that stuff right so you have all kinds of you know route finders so if I go to

you Aoki and I I type in your address I know you want Aoki tokens or whatever it is that you're asking for I can automatically find a route from whatever assets I have to you without having to click any buttons right like those kinds of you know front-end user experiences are super needed for all this stuff that's a that's a big challenge for us you know because we're we're coming from ussd and sms-based interfaces to blockchain that's what we've been doing since you know 2015 so yeah I I mean I and and that type of pluralistic you know polycentric system to me it has the ability to form kind of you know essentially a a massive neural network right like we can actually express

ourselves and express value in that way and not go through these centralized you know col colonized systems so we can bypass the US dollar for instance we can bypass National currencies and create these hyper local systems but still choose if there's utility in those systems fine let's let's still go through them and it's a good place to start so yeah I can I can imagine that happening I think it's a super it's it to me it's very tangible it totally makes sense and I think that we just haven't gotten into in in the crypto space we haven't really gotten into into working with a bakery and and in the you know if you go to like Delhi dollars back in uh in in birkshire Massachusetts they started before berkshares their

original Community currencies were just that they were they were just vouchers right or gift cards for stuff at the bakery right you'd buy them which is really just a production loan or a production financing system right so the bakery gets money you've got the vouchers the bakery can put a new roof on their house you've got promises for you know really really simple basic stuff enabling that all to connect and flow on chain right to me is is just a a simple path forward and uh yeah well it all seems very exciting I feel like I'm rediscovering a lot of these Concepts through through learning them through you and then also the episode with Scott that we did on community currencies well last question before we wrap and that's

is there anything that I didn't ask that you want to say your work on um on gitcoin and you know Capital allocation I think is really beautiful and I think that there's a lot of synergy with this stuff I mean like Kickstarter and whatnot in terms of like building ecosystems out and I I guess you know incentivizing that space that curation space around this so that you know like Capital can go into seeding those networks it's it's sort of to me that's sort of like a next stage right like instead of just donating to some project it's like no let's let's actually create an ecosystem there and I think that we're you know the toolings not quite there in terms of us x's and all the all the all the governance systems around that and yada yada and so I think to me

that's that's a direction I'd like to see you know a lot of the onchain you know Capital allocation systems kind of like moving towards yeah it feels like there's some of us that are building a bridge between the old world and the new world and then there's people who are firmly rooted in the New World in trying to figure out how to get more people across the bridge but also iterating and refining on the new world so one thing I really like about the green pill community and also the reial community and just all of the regen out there is that we're kind of building these things together it's a networked organism that we're bringing forth and everyone's playing their own complimentary part in in a way yeah yeah it's really beautiful I Thanks for for bringing that out yeah trying to do my small part I feel like

I'm a mile wide and an inch deep and it's folks like you who have been embedded in this stuff for 15 years it's it's really a privilege to have access to you and part of the reason I do the podcast is to give the access that I have out to the broader Community yeah well I think uh you know Boulder Colorado is ripe for this kind of stuff you know I mean it's got to be packaged in a way that people can not have to deal with you know uh private keys and public keys so much and all that kind of stuff but like it's yeah it's a beautiful Community that's full of you know you know just like the therapist community in Boulder alone they all work with each other they're all in some sort of credit system in some ways you know what I mean

like there's tons of that it's a beautiful Community I used to live there and I I just for the benefit of the audience I'm in Boulder Colorado and uh there's a lot of people playing with different Progressive ways of organizing and you know we embracing all the contradictions there but you know uh when we get to a place where there's an operating system or a manual that that works where you are now and also in Boulder Colorado and also in New York City when we can configure these things to roll them out in different places I think then that's really when we can realize this vision of crypto regenerating the world or peer-to-peer networks regenerating the world yeah man well that's a great place to end it I will shill real quick the links in the show notes Grassroots economics Foundation serafu Network commitment

pooling and the Grassroots economic Field Guide you can access all of those links in the show notes so as you're finishing up the episode listener please check out the the links in the show notes and then will I'll give you the final word any anything else to say before we wrap no just you know Envision yourself as a gardener you know you're you're pulling together knitting together Network and and I think that we're always doing that when we're when we're a good part of a community it's just a natural thing and I think that's what we're really trying to to just bring out is this sort of how do you create living systems and you're already part of this we all are right and so it's just like pulling those into a form of formalization that you can see them

and really cultivate that space beautiful place to end thank you will thank you you just heard from will reic I am excited about Grassroots economics because of all of the amazing ancient wisdom that they are bringing on chain and all of the people that they are helping thanks again for listening to the green pill. network podcast again we are featuring the people who are building a coordination in a network Society of thousands of hackers dreamers and doers using crypto to bring positive some systems to the world like Grassroots economics like uh all of the people that they are helping like the C ecosystem if you value our work you can collect this episode you can go to pods.

Media green pill to find all the episodes and to start collecting shout out to MMA on chain. eth and also shroom chad. e for collecting recent episodes of The Green Field podcast there's also a couple people who have collected the podcast episodes that do not have ens names I'm not going to read out your addresses sorry set an ens and I will give you a shout out on the episode once you collect a green pill podcast nft which is how you can support the green pill podcast and the green pill. Network while you're here might as well make it offering to our algorithmic overlords Please Subscribe rate and review tell your friends about the green pillow podcast it really helps us build this regen crypto movement till next time peace and love see you