The Rollup TV: The Truth Behind Story Protocol

Transcript

[Music] Heat. Heat. [Music] Heat.

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heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Hey Heat.

[Applause] [Music] GM, we back. >> Hey, good morning guys. Happy Tuesday, Rob. I love Tuesdays. I don't know about you, I think Tuesday slept on. Yeah. It just feels like you're after Monday, you kind of get over the hump. And if you have a productive Monday, you're in there by Tuesday. You're just ready to keep slamming through the week.

>> Yeah. >> Two days are underrated. >> Today's going to be a a pretty sick stream. Um we just have one guest today. >> We have SY, Story Protocol, >> and we're going to be talking about the truth behind Story Protocol. I mean, this these guys just put out the announcement of Jason, the co-founder, leaving and got absolutely thrashed on Twitter. I haven't seen anything like that in a while. I mean, there was it was uh 5 million impressions and quote tweets that that were just extremely extremely angry.

>> We're gonna have the Story Protocol CEO join us today. >> Yeah. >> And we're not really going to hold back. Um, quick disclaimer, you can check all of our all of our uh disclosures and such on our our website, which is actually now good idea. Um, and yeah, I mean, today is going to be a interesting conversation with SY, who's kind of like the shadow founder of um of story. So, yeah, looking forward to it, Rob. >> I think I think you're right. I think he was a little bit lesser uh in in in the limelight when Jason was around. Yeah, like you're saying, obviously Jason Zhao left story protocol. Um under the circumstances, there was some uh

discussion that he left once his vesting uh reached its cliff. Uh we're gonna we're going to play Mythbusters today. We're going to either confirm or debunk a lot of these mysteries. pretty pretty uh pretty cool that we are able to break some of these uh break some of this news. And you're right, Sy was a little bit more behind the scenes. Jason, I think was a little bit more public uh when it came to evangelizing and leading the community. Um as far as I know, Sy was still very instrumental in the entire fundraising process. Uh he has had multiple exits in the past. And so we're going to talk a little bit about uh SY's relationship with Jason Zho,

maybe how they met, um ultimately what led them to launch story protocol. Uh we're also going to get into what the last few months has been uh and what the public perception is preJason leaving and post Jason leaving. So it's going to be a really interesting conversation. We're not going to hold back and uh we're going to see exactly what SY has to say about the past, present, and future of Story Protocol. >> Yeah, we are. We are. We are. We are. We are. We are. I think he's ready. I think he's ready. I think he's in the back. Um it's gonna be fun. I >> tell you're excited.

>> Uh I got a new camera. >> Uh pretty sick. I think it's probably looking pretty good. >> You guys tell me in the comments what you guys think. Um, but everything's everything's dialed here. So, I'm just going to send out a couple reminders here and then let's get Esa in. Um, so just give us one second. We'll get this thing started. >> Absolutely. We're just we're just putting the final touches on what is going to be a great show for you guys. Um, obviously this is a bit of a special episode. Uh we have a spotlight on Sy Lee who's going to join us in just a few moments and we are going to uh hear the story of story protocol in just a few

moments. Let us put on the final touches. >> Shout out >> helping us behind the scenes. I think they got SY loaded up for us. So let's bring them up on stage and uh let's have some fun. Here he goes. All right, let's see. There he is. Sy, welcome to the show. Um, you haven't been on before. We've done some inerson content before. Um you obviously uh have had quite the last few weeks and so uh we are very interested as long as as well as the entire uh

story protocol community and the crypto industry at large is very interested to hear uh your perspective on the last few weeks of uh of things at story protocol. Welcome to the show. Yeah, man. Definitely. Um, I mean, I

just think that that the community wants to get an understanding as to how a lot of this unfolded. Um, you know, you guys recently rolled out a a announcement with a new kind of AI officer that followed up with the departure of Jason, uh, who was the co-founder. I you know, I think it would be helpful just to start to understand, you know, your relationship with Jason with um, you know, how story protocol was kind of created. maybe you could just explain your relationship with Jay-Z, what how that started, what that ended up looking like. Um, and that would give us some helpful context for um kind of this transition period.

Hey Sy, just give us one quick sec. Sorry about that. Um, just checking on your on your audio and we'll keep you there for a sec. Just making sure. Just don't want you to go too long here. Uh, give Yeah, guys, just give us one sec. We're gonna Yeah, I think it's it's important that we understand uh your background uh as well. I I appreciate you uh flagging that. Um just give us one sec here. Uh we'll be right back, guys. Uh just going to get SY's audio just tuned up real quick. Um, but yeah, as you guys can can imagine, the kind of nature of the conversation

will likely just end up being SI addressing a lot of the a lot of the feedback and us kind of pursuing an investigative uh firm but fair fashion. Uh, so we will just give it a second here. Let's test his audio. Marcelo in the back and then let's get him back up. >> Yep. like you're saying, I think, you know, the spirit of this show is always about seeking truth. Um, we've sought to educate uh as we've learned things in DeFi, in crypto, in blockchain. Um, our entire goal is to educate ourselves and educate our audience and community along with us. Um, this conversation is in that same vein. The goal here is to understand what happened, I think, is

the first most critical point. Um, and once we do that, we can start to separate some of the different perspectives and and really just understand the truth of the matter. Um, that is the goal of this conversation. And you look, kudos to SY for for coming out facing uh some of the, you know, the good, the bad, the ugly, and uh and taking it on the chin and and answering some of our questions uh because they're not easy questions to answer. So, uh, mad respect to the entire the entire team.

uh SY included. And yeah, let's make sure that we get his audio fixed up so that we can hear him properly. And uh yep, we got him. >> Team's working on it behind the scenes. So, we're going to get him up in just a moment. >> Um, and I think, you know, you started off on the right track. Uh, you know, how did he meet Sy? Uh, how did Sy meet Jay-Z, excuse me. um and generally understanding um you know SY's background that led him to this venture and then you know telling the uh the story story is what we want to understand.

>> Yeah, I think we'll flip it over to his backstory to start um before we even get into uh what's going on at uh with with Jay-Z. Um and guys, just give us another half a minute or a minute. Sorry about that. Just gonna get this finalized and then we'll be locked into the rest of the stream. Um, and we'll get it going. Just quick little bug here on our side. That's what happens when when you run through a uh multi, you know, multinational international stream across the world. So, uh, we're going to get him tuned up and then get him back in. Um, >> we are innovative media tech here behind the scenes. It's quite the operation.

We're pulling together several time zones, several geographical regions, and um somehow All right. All right. There's uh there's all kinds of things that we're going to ask SY today. Obviously Jay-Z's departure in the last few weeks has been uh pretty noteworthy. Um but even before Jay-Z's departure, I think there were some very interesting things that were going on. Um there was there was accusations that were being thrown around, but

>> there's also been quite a bit of development. I think also the idea of an IP chain was very um it kind of it kind of tickled people the right way but also the wrong way. And usually that's when you know you you got something right. People are either going to love it or they're going to hate it. And I think that is what story protocol did. The organization and the people around it. There was some liberty that was taken. Um but ultimately this really gets down all the way to the to the core of the project. And so, uh, with that being said, um, this was, uh, this was always something that was going to, um, was always going to get people's

attention because, uh, because of the controversy around >> the amition around the idea. I I I mean I just think that people um people have a very negative taste in their mouth towards different L1s these days just because they've seen the playbook play out quite a few times and they want to address it in a certain way that suits their bags. Like a lot of the Ethereum people, a lot of the Salana people, a like there's always a next L1 that people are upset about. Um and and I think that you know story in particular has triggered a lot of people for for various reasons uh wi-i which we'll get into today >> except hyperlquid.

>> Well yeah I mean hyperlquid has triggered a lot of people too but it does seem a little bit more balanced but you're right about uh the alt L1s coming up getting a lot of hate. Some of them break through that hate like Hyperlid has. Some of them >> have yet to found product market fit. Um but a lot of them have found narrative market fit which I think story did to their credit. I think again this was a very controversial idea but the simply the idea of creating a more efficient market around IP is a very intuitive idea and I think someone's going to capitalize on this and execute it well. Obviously we're

going to hear from SY. We're going to hear about his background and the experience that he has and everyone's going to be able to make their own judgment and decision on whether or not this team is the team that will execute on this idea. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, this should be a good stream. I'd like to get this thing started. Um just waiting as just having a bit of audio trouble here, which is all good. I think we're back um here pretty soon. >> Yeah, I think so. Yeah. >> I think so. Yeah.

>> Yeah. So, we've got him behind the scenes now. We're going to pull him up on stage in just a moment, but we can hear him. We're going to make sure that you guys can hear him. And >> all right, I think you're up, man. >> Welcome back. Sy, >> great. Hopefully, it works. >> Yes, it does. I think it was VPN, all these different stuff. I understand. So, let's get right back into it. That's why we were, you know, going on to discuss your relationship with Jay-Z, but I think it's it's important to understand that and I think people have this idea in their mind that Jay-Z was the like the face, the brand, the the founder, and you kind of have like this shadow founder perspective and persona, which I think people don't really understand.

So, maybe you could explain your background uh before we get into your relationship with Jay-Z. >> Yeah. So I what I wanted to say right before this was that these things happen all the time. I had an company before I'm I've been an entrepreneur for the last 12 years and the last company uh I was working in mobile IP space. I sold that company to cacao four years ago for half a million dollars and even in that company there were I think two three phases right so the first co-founder left and we had a CTO CPO co-founder coming in uh when we pivoted to a new company and actually as a comp once we launched a product as a company was

trying to scale from one to 100 I had a very seasoned CTO CTO come in and that co-founder also left so if you look at many of the successful companies out there the first year leadership, fourth year leadership, eighth year leadership, it all evolves and changes and actually it becomes a positive catalyst for the company as it and it tries as it tries to grow, right? So um with Jason um actually after selling my last company uh four years ago and um I you know I was itching to actually think about what is my next move, right? Am I just going to continue to stay at Caca and try to be an corporate executive or am I going to start a new company? And I ultimately

decided that, you know, starting a new company is the right way. Uh I I'm not I'm not a big company guy. I get so much energy out of starting new things from ground up. And you know, crypto and IP was just starting with NFTs. And I thought there was so much more to crypto and IP than just check JPEG files in NFT, right? And then I was very lucky to have found Chris Dixon and A6NZ. They backed me as a solo founder uh with $10 million term sheet and then I was will um you know I was a venture partner at Hash. They also stepped in and a lot of the backers from the last company they they they piled on. So we had a $30 million already kind of committed uh that was a very lucky time as a serial entrepreneur uh with a successful exit.

And then you know I was trying to build a team from there right and uh and I had a actually co-founder uh Jason Levy who was focused in IP he was the first co-founder to come in afterwards and then we were building the team and actually Jason was someone who was recommended by Alliance Dow Inran Khan and Chia Wong you know they was an accelerator for you know crypto and they said there's this there's this uh young kid uh Jason who's very very he'll be a good good good person to join and crypto is a new thing uh you know and you you you want a very fast young talent working with you. So we I met him uh he was very impressive and you know he first joined as a consultant for a few

month and then you know I I I offered him a position uh to work as one of the early employees and he said I want to start my own company I can't join once I join the company I have to commit for several years I can't do that and said I told him no no no just join as a junior co-founder learn zero to one in three to four years you can start your own thing right and uh once we launched a blockchain I think he's been kind uh suppressing that thought for you know uh starting his own thing until the blockchain launched and then after the blockchain launched few months after uh he actually came uh and said I think you told me s three and a half years ago three years ago uh that this is a zero

to one once I once I experienced that I can go and start my own thing I I had a fantastic run I learned a lot from you but I I think it's best for the company and not just me to actually have more professional executive team uh CPO uh and someone focused in AI who can actually scale this from one to 100 and I and it was a mutual agreement right it's uh you know uh it's it was a moment where we launched a blockchain but it's about actually having stronger ecosystems stronger applications stronger use cases that this infrastructure will use for and the uh two leaders who came in the chief AI officer Sandep is a very very I mean Jason has some experience in AI but it's a just year in deep mind But this person got his PhD at Stanford for AI sold the

company to VMware as one of the founding engineers as is a professor in uh AI has been working in AI for you know a decade plus uh as a as one of the kind of very respected academic authorities and uh Andrea uh who um is a fantastic kind of AI focused product manager. He actually was working in Alexa Amazon team for as a product manager developer evangelist uh led dero at Dapper Lab. So he has also consumer IP experience on top of AI experience. So he has a very very good understanding of scaling product for um uh kind of in the AI vertical and the consumer vertical. So yeah so two of them just have tons of experience in scaling things and now is a time to go from one to 100. We launched a thing but

we need to actually get a real usage and these two are the right folks to drive the next stage. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And so I must say though that it it the announcement that Jay-Z put out uh you know there there was commentary and you know I could understand why it felt like he was maybe a bit forced out. Uh but you're saying that that's not the case but it felt like that. >> No no that that's not the case and I I uh that's not the case. As I said, you know, it was from the very beginning he he wanted to ultimately do his own thing, right? And he wanted to join to learn zero to one, right? And and he had a fantastic run kind of getting to the

blockchain launch. And then I think he ultimately wanted to go for his own thing, right, as a as a kind of a young founder. Uh, right. and and you know and it's it was actually him um you know stepping aside and going onto the next journey also leaves a room for these very experienced sea levels to come in not just the CPO and uh chief product officer chief AI officer now we have actually had a partnerships from Aptos joining he he also led all the BD at Libra at Facebook and he's very very experienced professional so now we have a very seasoned executive team that were that are that are brought in uh right to get to the next chapter two of story and

and you know I've had this experience even the last company and I had uh this the early co-founder was an engineer but he she loved product on top of just doing engineering and then you know she and then it it came a time where now CTO cannot do the product CTO cannot do that do the design on top of her just engineering work and we had to you know it was a time where you needed a very professional mobile app scaling person in the product team uh product vertical engineer vertical who came in to grow together and as she uh as she worked together she thought okay maybe this is uh you know I I should focus on uh kind of my my thing right because you know

this is I I love zero to one not one to 100 some people love that early stage of the game right yeah >> but as a for me as a CEO and uh CEO and founder and original vision I'm I I mean I I see this as a decade long or two decade long longer journey, right? Yeah. >> I mean I'll be all sticking around to me until this kind of vision comes to life. >> Yeah. >> And and this particular use case will will take time to develop and and to your point this is all the early history. And so I'm curious if you can maybe tell us a little bit more about the early history of story protocol and your relationship and as you were working with Jay-Z, you know, what were you responsible for? what was he responsible for? And now that he's left,

who's going to be coming in to to take over his responsibilities? >> Yeah. So, I mean, I'm the originated vision, right? Because I So, last company, I mean, to just give you my history, the first company I started was actually crowdfunding platform, Kickstarter, Patreon meets journalism and writing and blogging. So, for me, IP creator was the very first thing that I started. And after that I started Radish which was a mobile storytelling platform with the thesis that kind of the fiction is the source of all the IPs the cheapest way to create IPS and you can scale to other types of IP very very easily and now it's basically I'm not just doing an application layer or infrastructure layer of how IP is

created IP is licensed IP is monetized IP is funded is fundamentally rewritten through blockchain technology in the age of AI right so for me that's I I'm you know I came up with the vision I set the vision and wide ranging strategy I you know I I built a team I fundra and then you know I I'm the ultimate decider for all the decisions uh you know and you know and and basically um you know that that was my role and Jason's role was kind of focused on protocol design right protocol design plus also being an evangelist and marketer along with me right uh you know uh you know I've been uh I I was also pretty loud in Twitter.

I also was very active but you know he he took the role of actually getting more on more getting on more podcasts getting on more uh speaking engagements but you know I'm I'm I'm going to be doing probably a lot of podcasts a lot of interviews going forward. So I'll probably taking that role uh a lot more. Plus you know Andrea uh he uh he served as president of the foundation. He's now the CPO who's to taken it over. So he uh he will do that with me on top of uh uh uh uh you know um you know u on the public evangelism side on the AI side you interview seep he's going to play that role as well and also as a co-founder of Poseidon and on the and

the other so that's the public evangelism side the other side he had was product and protocol right that's going to be taken over by actually um um Andrea who has a decade plus long experience in product management and also building for developers. So he was in charge of developer relations at Dapper. He was a technical evangelist at actually Amazon on top of being a product manager and actually you know layer one and and also a protocol is a very developer facing product. You want as many application builders coming on top of you right so it's you need to understand the minds of developers to actually thrive as an a layer one ecosystem. So he with that 10 plus spheres of experience he's going to actually you know take it to another

level right Z was a very strong contributor from the 0ero to one with the young energy and innovative spirit and you know the one to 100 you need actually the experiences and product specialty and AI expertise to get get to the next stage. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um, all right. So, now that we understand the roles, I I appreciate that. I, you know, I think the announcement went way bigger than any of us thought. I mean, it pretty much went from like what it was at a couple hundredk views to 5 million within a matter of of hours and days and uh took over the entire timeline for the weekend for on on crypto Twitter. Um, you know,

and one thing that was particularly peculiar about it was the timing, man. Um, so there there was a lot of uh FUD and push back about the timing of the announcement being three days after the sixmonth core contributor unlock. Um, which looks really really bad, man. Um, I'm not sure, you know, what the details are exactly on, you know, your your token investing. Yeah, >> I think part of the reason why it went viral was there's so much misinformation about it and it was got propagated, propagated and propagated. And you know, first of all, that's a complete lie that there's a six-month unlock, right?

Actually, >> so there's no six-month unlock >> core contributors have a year, one year cliff and plus two-year vesting. So it's a fouryear vesting period with for the first 12 month your own tokens won't get unlocked at all right and uh you know you have a three-year vesting on top of that so you know it's uh it's it's a four uh four year uh plus vesting period right and even uh just a 20% of uh the core contributors token gets unlocked in the year one which is actually February of next year right so that's uh that's uh that's where things are sitting at and actually uh some of even very I was talking was a very authorative

newspapers you know actually wrote that kind of thing and then we had to correct it and then which they apologized. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So so the timing of the announcement it there was misinformation about the token unlocks and then and then you're saying that the timing was not correlated at all to any sort of six-month unlock. at all. >> It's all one year cliff. >> It's one-year cliff. One-year cliff for the core contributors and three-year vesting on top of that. Right.

>> So, it's a four-year uh fouryear uh unlock period >> and that that's public somewhere that's in the docs or that's in that's on chain. How how do you how does one verify that? I uh it's it's in the foundation documents and you know a lot of the token tokconomics you know unlock tracker will will show you that investors have a three-year team internal team actually uh have a year longer than the than the investors right so yeah three year for investors four year with the one-year cliff and actually u from what we know uh you know there is a strict guideline around not having um any tokens unlocked until year one for uh for for uh core contributors for for American companies which we are.

>> Yeah. >> And a a lot of times I've seen that uh if an employee or a founder doesn't stay on past a certain threshold uh some of their tokens are are revoked. Um did Jason >> did Jason leave any tokens on the table by leaving early? You know he he >> Yes. So, so, so actually that was also I mean I don't want to speak for on his behalf but uh he uh he left earlier than his full vesting. Normally for all these tech startups in Silicon Valley it's a four-year vesting period. it left three years in, right? Uh and that also leaving,

you know, what's remaining on the table also allows you to bring in more uh seasoned team members as well, right? And and which uh you know, which can uh which could be used for bringing future talents and so on and so forth. Yeah. >> Okay. All right. Um, that's why there's another I mean we can get into some of the more uh kind of quote tweets and stuff in a bit. Um, but just kind of rolling back to >> tweets. What are these quote tweets?

>> Yeah, there's quite a few, man. I I'm sure you've spent a lot of time reading them. Um, Twitter went crazy there. There there's a tweet about that we didn't really bring up yet that I think is important about how you guys got the funding from your kind of Korean uh uh family slash um you know close companions. Is there anything that you wanted to clear up on the on the funding process of story u with regards to that? Uh I know it's a bit of a wild card here but there's some there's some there's some cool tweets. Oh, I don't know what that actually you're talking about, but you >> Okay.

>> What do you mean by this? >> Um, well, yeah, on that announcement uh from Jay-Z, there's a recent quote tweet um recent quote tweet uh says >> uh I'll have to find the exact one. Uh >> anyway, what what I can tell you is that you know given that I've sold a company in Korea.

>> Yeah. >> Uh the Castage in the Castage level actually we've had several founders or investors from Korea who've actually built companies in the IP and tech u tech space who backed uh you know who backed the company in the early days. M >> I don't know if you're ready. >> Okay. All right. Um moving towards some of the actual nitty-gritty of Story.

>> Um Sto's revenue numbers from the quote suites on DeFi Llama are very low, >> $50 in a 24h hour period or something like that. >> Uh why does Story generate so little in fees and revenue? like is there any real sustainability here for story? What is this what is this what is the situation here? >> Yeah. So, first first of all, I think you're referring to uh kind of the gas fee revenue, right? The gas fee revenue. And just to kind of put put things in comparison, Mantle, for instance, in a top 30 40 token project, which is a, you know, pretty respectable chain, uh they have actually 200 to 300,000 daily

transactions, which is similar to what where Story is. If you go to storycan.io, IO. Uh that's actually kind of the 200 to 300,000 um uh 300,000 kind of transaction number is kind of the ballpark number that we get every day on the daily transaction volume. And you know uh you know uh if you ask Mantle and just go to their scanner what their revenue per day is about $3,000 per day or $2,000 to $3,000 per day. Story is doing as you said 20 to $50 per day, right? And u where is that discrepancy coming from? The transaction volume is similar but the gas fee is a lot lower for story right and we it was a very intentional choice because a lot of the

chains out there are very kind of defy focused trading focus it's catered to a very small number of folks but for story uh we deal with IP we deal with data it's a very very consumerf facing chain in some ways we have applications like magma which is three million users and they would hate to pay uh you know a lot of gas fee and asked that on to web to users, right? So for for that reason, we intentionally made the gas fee extremely low, right? Uh to to actually get the get the get the train going and this is a uh stories at the stage of actually, you know, getting real adoption of the consumer space and you know it's at that stage. So it's not about like charging

and saying gas fee, right? And they need a lot you know. So that's kind of where where we're sitting at. So you can you can think of the gas fee revenue gas fee as a taxation on the transaction and at the moment we have a very very low taxation on the transaction and um and that's generating about you know 200 to three to 300,000 transaction volume uh which is higher than many of the layer 2 and layer one uh you know and layer ones you know and you know it's similar to something like mantle. Yeah. >> Yeah. This is something that we've seen across other networks that are looking to drive uh growth network effects rather than trying to maximize their

revenue from day one. And this I mean this is something that is true of Amazon in the early days looking to build out an ecosystem before charging fees to encumber that ecosystem. >> Yeah. But I don't really think that's the point. I think the point is more of like no one's using the chain is is the response. Like that's kind of the push back is more like no one's using the chain. and there's no fees, there's no activity, it's a ghost chain. You raised hundred $100 million, no one's using it and uh it's vaporware. I mean, that's like the response. It's it's it's not like, oh, there stories in next Amazon. It's like, no, no, there is no next.

It's just >> I think what what you're trying to say, and this is saying, correct me if I'm wrong, is that there's lots of transactions. There's just not lots of fees and revenue being generated from those transactions. Is that >> Yeah, that's one aspect. That's one aspect. And second aspect is uh stories use cases are focused on uh non uh kind of crypton native use cases. When I say crypton native use cases I think the things that actually get a lot of traction on Twitter on X not on X is really kind of the very speculative use cases like memecoin uh trading uh you know which we are now you know getting

into with IPAC memecoin IP.orld world which is actually creating generating creator fees for u the the actual meme owners and IP owners but you know we we're we're not a chain focus on this kind of speculative use cases or memecoin trading or defy farming and because of that we we don't have the right kind of attention for kind of the echo chamber of X but we have a lot of applications so to give you an example something like magma with three million users a Figma for illustrators all these illustrations coming out would get registered and I think and these get registered as intellectual property and this intellectual property actually has a program licensing royalty share revenue

so actually as an illustrator you can use another person's illustration another person's illustration and build on top of that right that's a use case that probably CT doesn't care that much about but it's an interesting use case uh utilizing smart contract a second is an app called Avalo it's a remix uh AI remixing meets merch platform. It has uh brands like Adidas, Balenciaga, not all their design, some of their designs where you can actually create derivative design through AI remixing tools and actually you can sell that and you can share the revenue with this design houses and you know things like Arya, it's an RWBA protocol. It actually has everything from Justin Bieber's IP to

Blackpink's IP that's registered, right? and and and you know um that that actually it's it's it's driving TVL right so these are applications that are not like the sexiest CT stuff because it's not the next is is it going to 100x as a mean point is it going to give insane yield farming revenue but you know these are use cases that are I think important for crypto to crack and that's kind of the things that we're focused on >> and oftent times CT is very detached from the reality of what's happening either internally or around a company especially one that's dealing with as you're saying consumer or business facing enterprises have and so we obviously saw the reaction from CT on

Jason's departure and on story in general has there been a similar reaction from partners some of your IP partners or applications building on top of story maybe you could give us some insight as to what their reaction was it the same or was it a bit different from what we saw on PT >> first of all I would say actually um uh Jason uh it's it's it was not an abrupt I mean from the CT perspect it's very abrupt >> but he's been stepping back from April yeah you know he he told us midappril about the news and you know most of the partners or client facing folks uh you know or other clients or ecosystem

builders was mostly interact acting with not with Jason but the rest of the team. So it's not a real surprise for any of them, right? And then you know uh it's about Yeah. So it was not a was not a real surprise because that's not been they they they I think uh he was not the point of conflict for most of these marters. >> Yeah. >> Uh yeah. So that was that was the reality. >> Yeah. So, so, so you chose to to like delay the announcement of his departure?

>> No, it was a it was a gradual process, right, from April, mid April to to and you know, it's not you know, okay, he's he's he tells I'm going to I'm going to leave him. He's not he doesn't see leave the next day. I understand it's a gradual process for the company, right? >> All right. All right. Um man, I think uh another massive thing that we need to discuss is this token float situation. I think you guys have been you guys have been pinpointed as one of the culprits of the high float low FTV artificial moves in the chart. I think people are saying you guys raised hund00 million dollars, two really weird pumps with extreme um extremely imbalanced per uh funding rates, massive negative funding

rates on the initial pump. Um basically that your float is extremely low and that you guys are misappropriating what the float is. Um so yeah, maybe you could explain, you know, your side of this. Yeah, I think I think you're kind of characterized low float, high high activity situation, right? And first of all, I think we're, you know, it's it's probably a relatively lower float, right? And when I say that is there I think ma the major reason behind why it's perceived that way is actually if you look at most of the VC uh backed tokens they go to they get listed like a major VC

backed tokens they get listed on every single exchange and part of that deal is actually giving an insane amount of float insane amount of tokens to uh to these exchanges. For a company like scroll, they have to give 15 to 20% of their tokens to an exchange or you know uh you know move 8 to 12%. Uh you know um you know there are several cases it's multiple percentage five to 15 percentage. So we the company ultimately took a decision. I mean if I it's not just about getting on the exchanges it's not about day one right uh you know it's a long long journey and what the

circulating surprise represent is an unlocked supply that's going to be used into investing into community and ecosystem and also maybe exchange listings right that's why actually uh you know but for us we purposely made a decision uh you know let's play a long game you know and actually let's bring the tokens is to uh the right application builders, the right uh community members, right IP builders, IP holders and data builders because we didn't give you know I mean for us you know the last company's valuation uh when we raised the funding was about a few billion dollar valuation and if we had to give 5 10 15% that's hundreds of

millions of token just going into kind of exchange major air droppers uh airdrop farmers and instead of that why don't we put that into a long-term aligned parties. So actually because of that we have a lot more flexibility and you'll be hearing that in the next coming weeks already. Uh we will be incentivizing these weak tokens actually collecting real world data uh for big AI model companies. You'll be very surprised by that we're partnering with because of these tokens we can now actually go after a massive IP catalog that are very recognizable IPs that are actually being added as TVL. It's going to be in the range of hundreds of millions.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So that actually Yeah. Okay. So, um where So, like right now on Coin Gecko, it says there's 3% it's 30% unlocked from circulating market cap to fully diluted market cap. Where like where are those tokens like like the idea here is that that that there's that these projects are basically falsely representing how much of the float is actually on the market. Meaning that it says there's 30% right now, but it's more like 5%. Like where are these 30% like like like is this partition airrop?

>> Flo is the what float is basically representing and the coin gecko and coin market caps definition a locked token that can be used for ecosystem and uh uh app builder and community incentives, right? and and basically uh you know that that actually is being used uh to actually uh actively daily to basically give ecosystem grants community u uh you know bringing IP bringing data you know for instance the area you know uh vaults that that actually brought black things IP to BTS IP a lot of people got IP tokens right so that's kind of where where it is and you know that's actually true for every single uh every single chain out there every single ecosystem

out there. They're using their circulating supply to actually incentivize ecosystem builders and I you know their most kind of online partners in the ecosystem and community members. >> Okay. Um >> and then I mean and then I think the perception of folks thinking uh we're relatively lower is because we did I mean a lot of the eos a lot of the layer ones or layer twos or the chains who they launched they get massive amount of I mean I think a lot of people are supplies we didn't get a lot of exchanges on day one because I was I made an intentional decision as a as a as a CEO it's not about being desperate to get ex just giving out all these

tokens to all these exchanges and just get listed. And most of the other project because they do that, they just get dumped very very quickly in the first few weeks. But for us, we were pretty resilient going going into these ecosystem uh going into at the launch and a lot of people just attack. Okay, it's a low float whatever. But >> yeah, I mean well that's the thing >> it's more responsible as an ecosystem foundation to actually give those builders. >> Yeah. Well, you could put it that way. I swear, but I think people see it as there are some artificial pumps happening from market makers who are, you know, there's some a agreement for them to pump the token so that they can have some sort of cash out at a certain

price. Um, and that that basically that it's just these there's blowing out these short squeezes that are created are on purpose artificially to pump the price of IP. It's inorganic demand and borderline illegal. And that's what people see. They don't see oh I I didn't give a lot of flow to exchanges. Uh I think I mean first of all our market making agreements are retainer agreements right just they get advisory tokens for actually market making right uh even uh there's what they call loan co-op optional agreement what that uh that folks foundations use we actually pulled out of it right and uh thinking uh very quickly and we we we have this

retainer agreements uh actually uh in in the uh you know that's operating and I think you know for for what you're mentioning right uh story I think the kind of criticism we get is uh because story didn't uh just give out bunch of tokens to exchanges we didn't dump in the way that other you know found uh tokens dumped in the first few month and actually if you track a A lot of the major token launches in the last uh this year uh most of them you know went down because

you know they they're not very responsible about you know basically you know uh giving giving ecosystem grants and so on and so forth. So I think for us we want to bring the tokens in the hands of right builders, right uh community members, right IP holders, right data holders and that's our philosophy and you know that's coming from our unlock circulating supply. >> Okay. All right. So all right. So we're we're going to have the impression that you and the the team have have not given you know based on what you're saying you've not given any uh an ex extended amount of supply to exchanges. Um you have standard market maker retainer

agreements. >> Yeah we have a standard we have standard airdrops given to everyone right and the ecosystem grants builders and so on and so forth. The one thing that we differ is I think I mean I'm not going to name names but a lot of people were surprised that we didn't get most uh you know a lot of the exchanges that people were expecting right many many exchanges and that uh from the the part of the decision was we cannot you know we're just not yeah you know we'll be more thoughtful about how we approach this.

It's a more long-term game. It's a long game. It's not about just let's get on to every single exchange possible on day one. >> Okay. because that's a very short time. And so then, you know, with this understanding that you've shared, uh, you know, I think our our audience and the community appreciates the transparency here and, you know, you being on this call. I I think that what what what you know, these answers don't really cover is the fully diluted valuation today of of IP token is 5 bill768 million and so on. And I just don't I I don't quite get how we can think about the IP token or story protocol as

something with such minimal amount of revenues uh and user numbers and also just in the early stage to be worth that $6 billion or so mark fully diluted. So I mean I I know crypto valuations can be kind of all over the place and kind of inefficient but you know it why is story protocol worth six billion like you know why is it not worth 600 million or 60 million like like what is the reasoning as to why this is there uh outside of kind of what people think which is a lot of that artificial pump type of uh tactics.

Yeah know there are many kind of there are many uh crypto protocols out there crypto layer ones crypto projects and you know I you know I'm not the biggest expert on why you know you know ripples whatever hundreds of billions of dollars or you know salon has hundreds of billions of dollars right I'm not going to pretend to be that person but I think what I can say is this right uh most of their crypto project so far has been focused focused on I think at least infrastructure wise two main things right one is building a faster chain building a faster TPS and secondly they've been very focused on um not only just building a faster TPS but like a

lot of the T5 focus chains right there are those two have been kind of major narratives for these infrastructures I think story uh is very something that's very weird it's something that is not kind of uh it's it's hard to evaluate as a as a CT person or as a crypto analyst because it's something doing to some doing something totally different you know IP blockchain there was no IP intellectual property focused blockchain and I what I can tell you is IP is a massive asset class it's a $80 trillion asset class from entertainment franchise biomedical patents you know AI training data sets to all these different things right and that has been ill that has has had so many middlemen, right? You

know, if you want to license an IP, remix an IP, lawyers, business development department, agent, there's so many friction in that IP world. And you know, that IP is actually, you know, is say Bitcoin is complicated gold. It's $20 trillion asset, right? But the IP is a massive asset class that's actually is looking to be innovative. And secondly, you know, on the IP side, uh, IP I think is going to be more and more valuable, especially subset of real world data. Uh, is going to be more and more valuable for AI. In three AI, there are three kind of battlefields. One is what I call model architecture. That's open AI to deep six of the world. It's getting very commoditized. Open athropic

maximum tourment difference. you know uh you know compute is monopolized by uh monopolized by Nvidia OpenAI is a $500 billion company now it's raising a 500 billion dollar you know uh you know Nvidia's multi-t trillion dollar company the last piece now is going to be about data even if you as a Tesla robotics AI model even if you script the entire internet's data you cannot have a robot hold a coffee cup right because you need a lot of lot of rare data long a longtail data for that robot to hold a coffee cup right and how do you get it you can have a do it in a central ized way or you can do it in a decentralized with crypto incentives and collect it and then actually have an IP put it on the IP blockchain license it with smart contract and so on and so forth right so

we think you know data infrastructure data and IP for the AIH is going to be as valuable as these two other verticals and you know um it's a massive market and it's actually has more relevance going forward is uh is our belief and I'm not going to pre pretend to say I'm the expert on crypto valuation. I don't know why Pepe is valued more than X, you know, and crypto, you know, I don't know why Ripple's more value than Salana. I there's so many, you know, things that that, you know, I cannot say for for us, let's focus on the product, focus on the problem. It is a massive market. It is a very important market. It is very something that's has to be a lot for AI.

So that's how I approach it. And you know if if you don't believe that should be six billion you know that's fine and we are playing a long game here. So looking at this maybe from a different angle, you know, you guys not only went live with the token and it's trading on an open market and frankly people can go short it, you know, if they think it's overvalued, but when you went to raise funding from guys like A16Z who have a proven track record, are these the same things that you're communicating to them, they're buying in, they they see the same vision, and so they invest. If you're looking at it from the A16Z angle, the Chris Dixon angle, what is the what is the the return on

invest? Like what how do they end up making a multiple and how do they end up making a return? Because it seems that like you're saying this is a massive market, but the five six billion uh valuation they maybe, you know, the the raise was a little bit of a lower valuation, but they they still got in at a relatively high valuation. what's going through their mind like what is their mental calculus when it comes to look we're going to invest at a multi-billion dollar valuation but we're still going to see a return >> for that it takes revenue doesn't it it takes some sort of growth how how are they going through the mental gymnastics to >> even you know the the data side the Poseidon we just launched which is

actually running on top of which is going to run on top of story scale AI was doing multi-billion dollar valuation that actually all the contracts going way we're now signing a lot of the partners that they dropped uh from from Poseidon and it's all going to be registering on the our IP blockchain that that application right will uh that that project is going to generate a lot of revenue right and and you know as a devco we can actually also build a lot of applications on top of story like consensus that's going to generate a lot of revenue and you know the chain could actually as as it grows and grows will generate a lot of revenue we're you know a lot of the Silicon Valley funds in a 10 to 15 year cycle, right? And you know and and you know we're playing the long

game here and it's a ma uh it's a massive IP IP is a massive market market >> and it's going to be more important in the age of AI and you know that's you know that that's kind of where we're playing at and if you don't buy the tesis that actually in the same way crypto innovated on finance crypto can innovate on intellectual property but I think on an intuitive level uh IP tokenization Using smart contract for licensing and royalty sharing makes a ton of sense. Uh in an intuitive level, scaling the data uh collection and licensing for AI model companies with IP terms attached to it on the IP blockchain makes a ton of

sense. And if that actually has a leg that we start and I'm, you know, I think you'll be surprised by some of the IPs that are going to come in in the next few months. I think you'll be very surprised by some of the AI partners that we're signing on and that actually I believe rather than building another faster chain rather than building another D5 protocol is more ambitious is more risky but has is a very worthwhile journey that has actually is going to have a massive effect.

>> So I I'm I'm curious this is a bit more of a general question but I I think it's relevant in the light of Jay-Z's departure. You're describing this as a 10, 15, 20 year journey, which I I believe it is, as well as a lot of other crypto endeavors. Do you intend to be around this for 10, 15, 20 years? Like what is your dream scenario if you can try to think about what this is going to look like as it plays out? No, I I think I always kind of describe it as two uh distinct things, but I think a very visual way of imagining what we can do is we're building a massive IP Lego land. When I say massive IP Lego, uh, is

that when humans have these IP Legos, you know, pudgy cam penguin can be a Lego piece and you actually take that pudgy penguin and you now have a five coding AI gaming tool, right? And then you can make a very very high resolution MMO RPG pud game, some kind of battle pouchy battle game, all these things now without even asking to Luca, can I actually license this? But there's already a licensing royalty sharers baked into that IP so that you can now use it a Lego piece for your creation. And now back in the days even if you have a hold of this IP the best thing you can make is a fanfiction and fan art. But now you

can make a high resolution game, high resolution movie, high resolution other product, right? That's going to be for me, you know, making that if every human has IP Lego pieces that they can play with plus a magic wand of AI remixing a magic wand of AI, I think that will bring a creative renaissance. That's something that I'm very excited about as a someone who's been building at the intersection of IP technology. And secondly, the exciting thing is around really um I think data we're now Poseidon coming on for data is actually really the uh the gold and oil for the uh AI economy and a lot of people think

data that you're creating you know for even Tesla Optimus team you holding a cup or you typing a keyboard with the GoPro on your head and in egocentric video footage that actually for one hour is extremely valuable actually. You want you typing keyboard and holding a coffee cup in million different angles, million different lightings, you know, with gargantuan amount of hours. And that actually helps a robot hold a coffee cup and type a keyboard. And that is an IP that is a intellectual property that you should own and license.

>> And that's what better is it to do it than you know this previous way of scaling on where a shell company hires a 10,000 people in India or Indonesia pays them and then licensing a bespoke agreement to Tesla or Meta Google. Instead of that why don't we actually cross it? anyone could upload their data, get crypto incentives in return, register the IP terms and these AI model companies license. That's a much more scalable way. So I think for me it's an IP Lego land and also people realizing that anyone can be an data miner and my data is my IP, right? It's kind of that

that is for me a very exciting world and you know maybe sounds very ambitious but you know that's that's exciting for me. >> Well that vision makes sense. I think what I'm trying to understand is okay you know say that plays out 10 years down the line. What is the right way for a crypto founder to exit a company like Satoshi did it one way right? He just disappeared. There's other and and the market and the community was seemingly unhappy with the way that Jay-Z exited. Maybe it was just too early right? But these crypto decentralized companies are noticeably significantly different from how one might exit a traditional non non-tokenbased company. And so is there a right way if if you were looking at,

you know, and kind of analyzing did Jason do it the right way? Granted the time frame, if you're doing it 10 years down the line, how do you do it differently so that it is better received? I mean, I I don't want to speak on hypotheticals here, but you know, for me at least, >> uh I mean, >> theoretically, how how should someone do it if they were to do it, >> you know, I I think if you um if you um what you can do as a father is really give it give it your give it all to the company and try it and grind it. And you know in the last company uh actually when I when

a lot of new founders come to me you know since I'm a ser founder uh what you know what can I do uh you know what's what's the best advice you can give me as a startup founder I say you know every startup isn't an overnight success but it happens on two thou 2000 night or 300 night and also you know today is going to be difficult and tomorrow is going to be even more difficult uh you know 10 year five years is going to be in five years is going to be even more difficult but in seven or eight years it's going to be a victory or it's going to be optimistic. So I think just being around long enough and surviving is actually driving is how I view it. And I think for you know for me I I I think this is

a massively you know massively amazing you know kind of opportunity and it's this this is I I've been and I I don't know for me at least I've been always working at the intersection of IBM I don't know what I can do else you know and you know one thing that my se one of the angel investors who invested in me uh told me was that sy Uh what I like about you is you know you're saying the same thing five years ago, seven years ago and nine years ago I was trying to actually make figure out a way that you know writer and blogger can be funded with crowdfunded and now I uh after that I was trying to

do with the fiction writer is an IP creator original IB creator now I'm trying to actually bring that ownership to other you know through through crypto technology and get IP holders to monetize or data holders to monetize. It's it just uh it will take different formats but you know I'm I'm I'm solving the same problem in a much more deeper and structure way is how I feel like I'm doing it with this and the beauty of uh building story like ecosystem is that there's so many ways to attack this problem right besidon real world data is also an IP you know what Ari is is a music IP right so I think there are so many uh such a large playing ground to to play in this

battlefield. So I think that's so it's very expansive on all on all all the opportunities. So for uh for me you know you know as actually the at least the CEO as a larger shareholder you know like that's something I need it's you know I want I want to try it until the end. >> I want to I want to try all the and you know that's that's how I view it. It's going to be obviously there's going to be tough days. I mean obviously I didn't like it when I didn't expect that kind of reaction. >> Obviously that was a very reaction that I had to go through. Uh but you know you know life moves on you you you keep fighting you you keep shipping >> and I we have a lot of exciting things

coming in the next few months with AI with AI partnership >> IB partnerships you know sort of >> yeah I'd like to get into that s five million views on the tweet was um I think I was over if if I had to bet an over under on the amount of views and had I known prior of of like what the tweet was going to say I would have bet under. So it's pretty shocking. >> Yeah. I I would say I would have just said don't even post it. Just just say just post your LinkedIn strategic advisor whatever. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. I mean Eclipse did an exit yesterday. They they restructured the entire team and did the CEO announcement. New CEO. Half the team half the leadership had had >> been either resigned or fired and it maybe got a couple hundredk views. But that's also the difference in magnitude of importance I suppose or just the way that it was done. I mean Andy Robbie I think one thing that I ought to tell you is that you know when I was a first time founder there are even bigger dramas right like you know I had like 80% of the team leave things change the leadership team change the five out of the six maybe people make get changed and the thing about crypto which is

interesting as I experienced it you're building a startup a startup is actually going public you're building it as a fourth year startup, right? And that's why and you you see dramas unfold, you see things unfold in real time and that's a that that's part of the thrill, but that's also the part of the downside. But, you know, and and I I think there that's just part of building in public, right? And and but but as you know, startups, there are a lot of changes all the time. There's pivots and so on and so forth, right? And and you know, >> that's how that's how it works. But every every time these things happen, you you evolve. you actually it's I think the founders's job and and the team's ability to use this kind of

opportunity to actually grow to the next range and you know and and you know and knowing startups and Robbie I think you know that these things happen right and but but now I think for some reason >> uh you know it was it was just it was just blown up and a lot of misinformation here and there and you know I just wanted to have those things cool down so that I can kind of talk rationally about this and thank you for giving this. >> Well, that's why I just got a couple couple more things for you, man, because I'd like to talk about what's coming for you guys. Um, but we have some tweets that we need to address still, I think.

>> Um, one of them is from uh, and excuse our naming of our crypto Twitter characters here who would never show their faces in real life and say these things to you, but would it say them online behind a profile? Uh, we got um we we we got a a claim here from CryptoCondom um which is a funny name saying um that he he's basically accusing you guys of dumping your foundation tokens on PIPE investors for the digital asset treasury company that you guys recently announced. Um and he's, you know, he's basically claiming that you guys are racing for the door on story.

So that's that could be that couldn't be as farfetched as uh you know that's extremely farfetched and false and basically the whole point of actually the digital as a treasury vehicle was that I saw it as another exchange listing right and if you think about the reality of crypto market and I think as a crypto funer making sure your token holders get their value is also a very important uh kind of uh focus and this what this vehicle does is actually now there's an exposure uh that public public market exposure

right so this is an excellent marketing vehicle fundraising vehicle uh to bring in new liquidity new attention to the mainstream public and institutional funds and you can't even believe and it's kind of crazy because I started I had a web two company before and a lot of the web two investors from my last start funds actually backed my company. We we said we can send you the tokens with small contract faults which a lockup period I think still 10 to 20 funds and investor haven't claimed their tokens because they don't like this wallets. It's like I just want shares I don't want to right like so so what's interesting is that most of still crypto in a lot of institutional funds

and web to investor they don't like holding tokens right they don't like holding tokens so this give a way for them to invest in these tokens and what the foundation uh you know u foundation token does is foundation is not dumping the token the foundation is getting share and the reason why We exchange foundation tokens, some of the foundation tokens with the shares is that we really wanted to make sure this equity vehicle we control as a foundation. The foundation gets to control it, right? What if this equity vehicle at some point says I'm going to dump B. That's going to be terrible for the company, for the ecosystem, right? And we just want to

make sure the foundation gets a huge amount of equity in this vehicle, right? And also you know uh so that they feel they feel protected you know that the tokens get protected and also I mean as a disclosure I also uh swap some of my lock tokens to the extent and I actually have the same lockup period year one lock you know it's it doesn't evolve into >> I've heard that these lockups are significantly shorter on these digital asset treasury companies. No, I actually made personal decision for my to I don't want to give any stupid misconception that I'm trying to dump tokens before the unlock share. So I made it >> align with the token unlock and the reason is I'm you know this is a I'm

afraid for some kind of black swan event this public vehicle you know uh you know says I'm not going to choose the IP token strategy. So I wanted to have the right kind of governance power over this entity at the found as a foundation in mind level so that you we can we can never see that happen. Right. Right. Right. So so so that's the thing and yeah I mean I I I guess for for us the decision was uh let's get the mainstream funds mainstream public to be able to invest into story and get exposure to IP token without buying the tokens because still a lot of people think crypto is very dangerous asset. Second uh second

the reason why foundation token foundation and I actually swap some tokens was because we wanted to have as a we're going to be the largest kind of share warrant holder uh as a as a block and we have the right governance over this entity and so that they can not you know choose to just suddenly get away from the you know token tragedy policy that we put in place. >> Yeah. >> Right. or or or the or the equity company could go broke and start spending money on other things, right? It has to be focused on IP token treasury strategy, right? And you want to have the only way to have that is actually have the voting shares.

>> Understood. My my only question on on the treasury companies why was there any rhyme or reason as to the particular company you guys bought was like a brewing like a brewery or a brewing company and so was there it I I couldn't really understand the overlap between the purpose of the company and now in employing this IP strategy was there any overlap or was it just a company for sale >> part of it is you're looking for a public partner with a very low valuation who's looking to pivot to a new strategy. So I I don't want you to focus on the existing business in the future.

They'll probably add validator business. They'll actually go double down on the IP system with the IP. Don't that's the that's what matters is not what it is now. >> And you know for various reason for you know governance, economic financial kind of the uh profile of the company it was the right partner to partner with. But you know in two quarters it's it's not about you know or three quarters hopefully it becomes about validator business investing into IP tokens invest into the ecosystem. >> Yeah. Um that's why another kind of trend here from the quote tweets was about um the lack of collaborative efforts from the story team when people are trying to build on story. So one guy

Bur says that it's impossible to get in touch with the team for support to build anything meaningful on it. He knew a team that was working working on some cool IP tech stacked with quantum scientists and physicists and story team said they're not interested at this time. And then also we had um a bit more of a famous kind of crypto Twitter fella uh cryptopathic who wrote that uh he tried to get in touch with the team uh to collaborate on his idea uh which was own the doge uh his uh his doge IP community coin and uh he found it essentially impossible to work with

story without locking themselves into the framework. network. Um, and so yeah, maybe you can just clear up some of the the maybe like business development or kind of like ecosystem collaboration efforts and maybe it's something that you're not even aware of, but I just wanted to put it in front of you. Yeah, I think I think those are all fair kind of um kind of criticism, but I I think we have a very experienced team uh actually uh trying to filled in as many inbound requests uh as possible and we have several apps that are really building on. But, you know, I I I take the fair criticism on, you know, not being able to fill in every single uh

things in a in a in a fairly responsive way. And you know uh we'd like to come back with a you know better way to get back uh in a timely manner for these kind of requests right >> but but we have we have a systems that are that are uh that are being vibrant on the ecosystem. >> All right well let's talk about some of them the uh the better stuff s um the the we got KBW coming up >> which I think you're excited about. uh what is your m maybe you could just explain to us stories current setup in Korea like what is story's stronghold over Korea what is your plans if you can share if you may some some stuff about what's coming for KBW and more um and

then we can just talk about what's coming next >> so I think Korea blockchain week is uh is coming up in a month I think just I think some folks have to understand the context of Korea and and and and also why why is SY so obsessed with IP and technology? Uh probably I think because part of it a big part of it is being Korean. Our biggest industry as uh is actually IP, right? We have BTS Blackpink, we have Baby Shark, we have Squid Game, we have Parasite. All these are IPs that were born out. I mean, Solo Leveling, it's in the web tune IP, omnition readers viewpoint. All these

are very very strong IPs that came out of Korea, local IPs that became global phenomenon, right? It's all happened in the last 10 years. And I think the smartest brains, the smartest entrepreneurs in Korea, they want to go into the IP space and IP and tech space really, right? So, so it is a as an IP blockchain working here. Uh, you know, Korea is a massive massive uh opportunity. We have the founder of the BTS. Uh the company is CEO by CEO by the main production company behind uh Blackpink and several you know top tech company former CEOs and founders you know former CEO neighbor which is the largest tech company in Korea. All these folks are actually shareholders or

investors in the company or big big partners and big supporters. So you know being a building an IP blockchain Korea is a very important place and secondly I think Korea is also as you know the second largest crypto market BB size US dollar. So Korea KRW was the most biggest trading pair was $600 million whereas the US dollar was $800 billion for spot spot market in the last uh uh last quarter right and then and then uh we also huge users of AI. So chat oh chat GPT's second largest pay customer comes from Korea. uh and also uh huge things happening with robotics physical

in body and we're not going to create chic but we're gonna create best robots with Samsung day LG all these companies so for us what we actually have in plate in a month I think it's going to be revealed in the next several hours but just to drop an alpha we're going to be holding a massive event uh with the biggest brands in Korea uh you know biggest uh biggest newspaper in finance finance newspaper economic newspaper in Korea with the biggest kind of blockchain kind of media groups you can imagine and all the who's who of Korean IPs are going to be probably coming to stories event and we'll have a major announcements that includes uh you know nine figure TVL deal nine you know and

you know IP is doing massive things on the chain uh actually being announced uh as a part of this conference and you know uh so so yeah I I We have a lot of exciting things in terms of IP TVL IP things they can do with programmable IP initiatives and also a very very exciting AI initiatives as well that will be revealed in the conference. So I think people will be surprised. I mean I think you know KBW is a great event but I think most of the KBW folks the people who who go there and other conferences it's all crypto folks you can meet and token for so on and so forth. our our event you'll see the actual tech and IP leaders in Korea

who are shaping kind of K uh you know Korea's IP is Korea tech Korea AI that is actually having a global influence and that's actually and I want to be able to facilitate as a Korean partner between the west and Korea and that's what I'm very excited about and that's going to be announced in the next several hours. >> Very cool. Yeah, this is, you know, kind of a a full circle moment uh for you as well as this story protocol going to Korea, throwing this big event. Uh you drop some alpha that it it is it is very cool to see um a general product that can tie so many different companies and angles together.

And so, you know, I I think it's also important to mention, look, like, you know, we appreciate you coming on the show and dispelling some of these rumors. it it takes a pretty strong character to stand in the face of adversity. Uh and that's exactly what you did here today. So very grateful for you coming on the show debunking some of these some of this misinformation and sharing um kind of what what you've been through over the last few weeks and and also >> yeah and and also you know talk talking to you know stories community and so just in the last few minutes here as we kind of wrap up um you know what what's maybe a final word uh to the community after seeing some of these tumultuous

you know times Korea is a big event. There's going to be things that are coming out afterwards. Um any more alpha? Anything else that you can share to to instill more confidence in the community? >> First of all, it it seems like a tumultuous event in the face of CT. But these are very I mean I I've had 100x bigger problem like cash in the last company. I've had co-founders leave. that teams change and you know every single company go through this you know you know like you know you know Facebook had Dustin Mov as a Chris Hughes in year four actually Cheryl Sber comes in even Coinbase uh three first three four years Fred Ocean was there on top of Ron Armster fourth year actually you know Fred Oceanian leaves and so on and so forth so this these things happen all the time right so so for me I've

experienced in the last company I mean 100x bigger problems uh and and this was uh you know we have such a good momentum in the last few months I think it's unfortunate this was so emphasized but there were so many exciting things with Societ Grayscale the chapter 2 chief AI officer you know to to the IP strategy vehicle actually you know up the listing you know it's it's it's special for me because as I'm Korean I've been we're on Coinbase we're on NASDAQ all these things but you know as a Korean founder I mean for some reason Korean fun rarely get on up uh for many reasons so you know that that was all very special a lot of great momentum and you know I I can't reveal to you uh it publicly but very big AI partnerships that you you

you'll be surprised by huge IPs coming and you know in a month this event I think last year we we held this event called storyhouse where you know who's of Korea came but here now actual these are now who's of IP in Korea the biggest business leaders in Korea and I actually you can say it's just like a small country But we are punching above our weight on IP from parasite to BTS to bisque game to all these things. So I think it's for an IP chain there's a real real synergy there and then even actually you know we we set aside in real world data AI licensing for physical AI model company robotics huge because of you know you know Hyundai bought Boston dynamics

there's very very big things happening there so I think actually you know this is not just a crypto conference it's going to be AI conference IP conference and the roster of the people the biggest game person the biggest K-pop person, the biggest K movie person, the biggest kid I give person, the baby shark, everyone is going to come and actually announce a partnership with story and I think uh you know uh we're very excited and uh it was it was unexpected that this kind of news blew up that much because I uh leadership change, leadership grow and so on and so forth.

But you know but but I I I think uh I'm just going to think of it in a thankful way. you know, it it gives hopefully attention to the good things that we have coming forward. >> Yeah. >> And thank you, Robin. And I know I know I took a lot of your time. I know I roll up TV. You just got to do like 15 minute, 20 minutes kind of. >> No, man. I mean, we wanted to to have you on to get your side of the story. I think we're going to let you go and kind of decompress and uh uh you know, just have a conversation about this about this show. So, uh that's why we appreciate your time. Thank you for joining us.

>> Yeah, bring me bring me bring me more. Bring me more. I'm happy to talk. Any FUD, any future FUD, message me. I can I can I can try to deal with in in public. >> All right. Well, we we'll hold you to that, Sy. I'll see you in Korea, man. Thanks for your time. >> We'll see you next time. >> Thank you, Andy Robbie. Really appreciate it. Bye. >> Ch. >> All righty. >> Wow, that was a that was a journey. >> Yeah. Um, >> you broke out some tweets. >> I mean, I was kind of playing bad cop there. I feel like >> Yeah. I mean, I I look, I I was very I I do think it takes a lot of integrity, like, >> you know,

>> to show up and >> to show up and have the conversation, take it on the chin. Like, we've seen other >> Yeah. It's easier to be in our shoes and just be like, hm, let's read tweets off Twitter. But it's also easier for like other founders to just kind of fade into irrelevance and not really address these concerns and just keep building because the new cycle turns and they'll just they'll just keep going. >> Andy, I had a question for you as as we were going through it. Just I and I meant to ask you on on the you know, we're still here, but >> why do you think this blew up so much?

It was it was around the Eclipse thing because like you said, Eclipse had 200K you know, maybe a little bit. >> Let's look at Eclipse. Like, it literally barely even I I checked it yesterday and it had like 200k views in like eight hours and I was like, >> I saw several people left. They changed leadership. They changed several people on the team. Major restructuring. >> You know what happened though is that um the CEO put out a tweet with no he put out the tweet and then he he locked his account and and and so he made his account private. So he put out the tweet, it got 100k views, started blowing up. He made his Twitter private so nobody could actually boost it. And then it's now sitting at 100K. The

Eclipse account is still public, but of course it's a brand account. There's less like >> I just think Jason post like Jason did everything that you would want to do to make the post viral. Like like I think unironically and accidentally like >> he posted on a Friday. Yeah, >> he posted four photos which the algorithm auto automatically boosts photos right? >> And the photos were very like friendly and like >> and like happy golucky kind of vibe. >> And he did a long post which means that like like people are going to click on that and read it. Uh the whole thing. He was talking about the funding. He wasn't very clear about what his next role is going to be. And so like there's just a lot of like things that people were

saying and like this is not anything new, right? And like I'm not trying to rag on these guys. I'm just saying what people what other people were saying, but like I think this went viral for all those reasons. >> Yeah. >> Um and but also I just think that it shows the importance of the of of a of story. Like it shows that it triggers people that it's got high enough market cap that people are concerned about people think about it. >> Dude, I'm not going to make any price predictions on IP, but after the conversation, I'm so bullish. I mean, I've been bullish on SY >> and like I I I do own some IP tokens, have some have some, but like I'm so that like, >> dude, this isn't a big deal. Like's gone. But the problem is that in that I

that I can't let get past me and you and and this is kind of going overboard from like the why this went viral thing is like >> there is a trend of people coming into the space, launching ideas in bull runs, grifting, and then leaving. And so warriors that is just something that we will never condone. And I think that is like the biggest problem that crypto Twitter and that crypto community had with this. >> I I think on the on the virality of the announcement of his departure, I think there's two you can look at this and look this had every recipe of why it went viral. The project, the announcement, the way it was done. You can look at this and if you're trying to go viral, do some of those things. But usually I think what what you're getting

at is that you don't really want this to go far and wide because it really wasn't a big deal. Like in hindsight it was because there were so many claims and accusations thrown around. But you're right, hearing SY talk today about some of the controversies he's faced in previous companies being 100x more like financially significant. it it made this company departure look minuscule. He also identified several other companies where the original founder wasn't the one that took it to scale. Brian Brian Armstrong from from Coinbase took over for Fred Echram. Um another one that that Sy mentioned massive companies that

took off after the initial founder left. Yeah, >> those might be the exceptions but >> look Sy was the the original founder. He raised all the money. He has all the Korean partnerships and relationships. And Jay-Z was sort of the the CT cryptonative community evangelist. >> Yeah. >> Junior co-founder. And so this him leaving I I I think we kind of got brought back to reality a little bit about how big of a deal it really is. And oftent times see crypto Twitter does tend to tend to embellish these these sorts of things.

>> Yeah, that was that was a wild uh that was a wild stream. That was fun. And I was so I was so serious in the beginning then it kind of just hung out. >> You're a bad cop, >> dude. I mean I mean bro like let's see what happens. You know >> I think we asked fair like tough questions but fair questions. >> Yeah these were genuinely I I and I feel this way with most of the conversations we have. It's questions that we genuinely are curious. That is kind of the leading philosophy here is like are we genuinely curious about the way the market makers deals were done or what generated a five billion dollar valuation or >> dude did you see did you hear him say that um he's got the um Squid Games main actor coming to the

event in Korea? >> Yeah. Are you going to interview him? >> I think so. I'm going to try if he if he will even take it up. I I got a feeling this guy doesn't really do much interviews. >> Have you seen Squid Game? Yeah, >> gota ask him, you know, some specific questions there. Like, did you know, did he know that that guy was going to cross him like that at the end of season two? >> Great stream today, Andy. Guys, >> thanks, Rob. Thanks, guys. Appreciate you guys coming out.

>> We've got some work to do. >> We'll see you next time. >> Thank you everyone involved. Thank you to the story team. Thank you to Sy for showing up today. Andy, thank you for asking the tough questions so that I could be good cop. And uh >> yeah, it was fun, man. >> Yeah, it was. It was a good time. >> We'll see you guys soon. We'll see you guys tomorrow, actually. Different stream type, but should be just as fun. See you then. >> Peace, everyone.