Rocket Pool Community Call | 26 September 2025

Transcript

All right. Excellent. Well, I know a lot of people are here and excited and they probably have a lot of questions. So, for everyone just joining us here, welcome very much. I'm I'm Ken. I'm one of the rocket scientists here with Rocketpool and I get the pleasure of hosting the community calls. And this is kind of an exciting one uh because today we not only have Langers on the call, which is always a lot of fun. But we've got uh the two founders Platin and Pastam here with uh Rock Solid, which is a new protocol. Um it's a DeFi protocol that just launched what a day ago, two days ago here that uh is now RocketPool's kind of um uh integrated liquid vault, right? That uh provides one-click access to optimizing yield strategies for our LST holders, our

rehearsalers, right? And there's a lot of neat things about this and I I kind of wanted to just kick it off a little bit with a with just a few questions and then really open it up to the group today to just you know kind of chat and have a lot of questions here. It's supposed to be an AMA session there. There's lots of good resources for this. But uh maybe to just kick it off um I wonder Langers if we could just turn to you and then we'll we'll turn it quickly over to uh the folks from Rock Solid. But but I wonder the the thing that kind of makes this kind of interesting is this is um a higher level of DeFi integration where um Rock Solid's uh launch was partially integrated into the uh the RocketPole site. So I wondered

maybe if you could talk a little bit about that and some of the genesis as to as to why a vault. >> Yeah. So, um, so actually I think, uh, we were talking the other day with the Rock Solid guys, and I think it was almost a year ago where we had like first initial, uh, conversations about what some what some sort of um, uh, integration might look like. And, uh, it kind of evolved over time. Maybe maybe they'll get into that. I'm not sure. Um, but kind of evolved over time. And then we uh but the the vault idea came up uh kind of midway through that process. And uh it basically

because uh at that point Saturn Zero I think had had been released um or was um basically released um uh nodes was online um and everything went from being kind of like uh node operator heavy or sorry node operator bound um to being demand bound. And so uh from that perspective you know we really and there was a big um push within the community um in terms of like the Ari Growth um incubator um program which had some really good uh programs that that's kind of spun out of that.

But essentially you know Ari growth is our biggest um uh kind of challenge at the moment in terms of growth. So uh so we needed to kind of fill that that gap and then the Rock Solid guys kind of went off did their research and uh basically there was this the the vault um was kind of born. Um I guess I I won't talk too much about their process. They they can they can talk about how how they how the genesis of of of it. But um but from the from a protocol perspective that's the kind of like driver. The real driver is that we are you know rb bound now and so you know growth is going to be our growth

dictated is going to be dictated over the next particularly the next year but um going uh with especially with Saturn being released um you know our growth is more and more important so uh you know our growth is going to be dictated by how much we can grow our eth um and that's where these guys come in and that's where the vault um comes in. There's a whole bunch of other um apart from ARI's growth, there are a whole bunch of other benefits um uh that the protocol gets um from this as well.

Um, and I I'll I'll leave them to talk talk about the the rest of that stuff, but there's there's kind of there's a thing where, you know, we're quite a neutral protocol in the sense that we um uh we don't have any uh we we don't have any capital allocation. We we can't capital allocate because we don't have any capital ourselves as a protocol. um whereas with a vault um that's possible and I'll I'll let them talk about the the possibilities there.

But yeah, so there's there's a whole heap of great benefits for the protocol. >> Yeah. Well, that's that's an excellent kind of introduction and kind of preamble to it. So, uh maybe maybe let's turn and kind of welcome our our guests here. uh Platin and Pasta. You want to maybe just introduce each of each of yourself and one of you give just a a short summary um of what Rock Solid is? >> Sure. I'll start. Hi, Steve Paladin on Discord. Um you introduce yourself, Ben, and then I'll give the intro.

>> Yeah, just quickly, I'm Ben, Pastor Master on Discord. I like Pastor. Um but uh yeah, I'll let uh let uh let Steve uh just give a little sort of background on who we are and what we do. >> Yeah. And I might just finish the maybe just fill in a little bit of the the Genesis story real quick. There's one one event that was like even before that maybe even two and a half years ago uh was a bankless episode where uh when Lido was getting close to 33%. And I remember the bankless guy saying like well this is crypto it's permissionless. if you want a better LST like you know world like go build one.

And that got me thinking a lot and I was just getting involved with Rocket Pool then. And um that was almost actually the first idea was like can we use RocketPool um you know to to to to somehow create a different type of LST that competes with with Lido. And um and actually I see Nick from Noteset is here was using similar ideas to what notet was. And the reason that would be helpful was because like Langanger said, Rocket Poolool was node operator constrained, right? That was the thing that was crimping its growth. And so when you looked at like how do how do we make Rocketpool better? Like that was that was kind of the answer. But then the community, you know, really rallied and we went through the the tokconomics work for Saturn and all of a sudden that wasn't the problem at all. Um it was uh

you know, it was actually our east demand. And so uh you know we started thinking like okay like what actually drives our ETH demand and we're looking around and you know two things really stood out to us in terms of what was some of the differences between like lido as an example and and and one was utility and defi stake was just better integrated. was in more places. Um, you know, you just had more utility from it. And the other was more liquidity like like just pools were deeper. Um, and and those things feed off each other, right? Like the more integrated, the more liquidity, the more liquidity, the more integrated, etc. So, in terms of like just that thought process that had been bubbling for a while of like how to, you know, how to

keep Ethereum credibly neutral, like how to help Rocketpool be a um, you know, remain a really strong part of Ethereum staking, you know. um we landed on vaults was the way uh you know the best way that we as a team could contribute to that because a um it gives you this focal point for deep dire so um uh re can be deposited um you know be be pulled and then um used to help uh uh uh incentivize other protocols to integrate our ETH and um we'll we'll talk about like a bunch of these examples but um you know that like Langanger said that the protocol itself doesn't have this huge pool of capital

to say hey like here's 10 million re like you should go create a pool uh but with a vault like that that sort of power is there um so that was like the sort of a long part of the the the winding road um but to sort of yeah take a step back um and and just kind of start from first principles so like what is RockSolid um you know it's a liquid vault platform and a a rockolid vault is a place where you can deposit a digital asset starting with our ETH and then us uh in partnership with a professional strategy manager they're called Juliper Capital uh deploy those funds uh to find the best riskadjusted returns that that

we can find in DeFi. So sometimes that's leverage looping on mainet. Sometimes that's um a new incentive campaign on a new L2. Uh and sometimes that's us or more likely Chulip negotiating new incentives with new chains to say hey if you integrate our ETH um we will bring capital and so but you've got to pay you got to pay right so um you know depositors get the benefit of of those deals. ETH gets the benefit of being integrated and the new protocol gets the benefit of of of the the liquidity to bootstrap their chain. So win win win-win-win really. Um so that's the sort of the user experience. Deposit funds get deployed they grow and then

you withdraw eventually hopefully never. Um and for the protocol um like rocket rocket poolool it it it solves the problems Langers was talking about. It gives you this focal point where you can, you know, say to people, here is here is the default way. You want to you want to just like hold this LHD, but you want to get more than the staking rewards. Here is a place to deposit it. And we we make it, I think, super easy. Nick, you can ask Nick uh who's on the call here whether it was easy, but we make it super easy to integrate. And so you can keep that that flow, you know, on Rocketpool. So people know Rocket Pool, they trust Rocketpool, like they don't have to leave in order to um you know, to get into the vault. And so that was uh you know, a super um important

part of it. Um and yeah, maybe I'll I'll stop there. There's a lot more we can talk about, but happy to let the the room decide the direction. >> Yeah, I was thinking that same thing. And so maybe let's just let's just open it up for questions. Anyone want to come off mute and ask a question to the folks? Uh, I guess not really a question here, but super excited to see uh, Rock Solid Vaults uh, come into play. Uh this is one thing I I know of me as a re user have been kind of like wanting is like more ways to earn more yield your re um

not just your re um staking rate but also like actual organic yield but also able to get incentives through different protocols. Um so happy to like be able to like uh see more expansions and um and like also work alongside with them as uh we keep deploying incentives on new chains for Rockool um specifically like the OP chains. We have some OP we've been deploying and uh and on Ronin that we're providing uh really high incentives coming in soon and going to be able to offer some leverage looping.

So uh very happy to see you guys involved in and making things easier for everybody on the RU please. I know this is something I've talked to a couple of our community members that wanted this to be able to put something in a bond and automatically bridge and run these strategies for them. >> Yeah. Well, I love to hear that you're you're hearing that there was a need for it. Um and yeah, like as strategies emerge, uh if we're not already deployed, feel free to send them our way and for evaluation. Um like on that note, I'll give you know guys an example. Some folks in the chat might have seen it already, but yeah, as Chulipa has already, you know, prior to launch been talking to new protocols.

Uh, one that came up is Hemi. If anyone hasn't heard of it, it's interesting. It's an L2, but it um it actually uses um Bitcoin um as part of its um sort of finality gadget. So, interesting protocol. Go take a look. Uh but yeah, our ETH wasn't wasn't in that protocol, wasn't on the bridge. um you know the the the team were talking about putting up an incentivized pool and now it is you can you can bridge our re to Hemi and soon there'll be a specifically incentivized pool to deposit our Ere and that is good for the vault obviously because that's um uh you know uh rewards that depositors will earn but like honestly you can think of it it's almost like we're the vanguard of an army people can come behind us and take advantage of the fact that our Ere is

integrated and there's a pool you don't have to be in the vault if you want to you know do all the work yourself and do all the monitoring yourself, you can. So again, it's this win-win, right? If you want it, if you want the easy UX, use the vault. Not well, you still still benefit. I've been on a couple of these calls. They can be a bit quiet. Uh maybe I'll I'll try and seed one. Kevster, I saw you're here. You had a feature request and you have three of the team members on the call. So if you ever wanted a good audience to put in a feature request, here it is.

>> Yeah. So my problem was that if I if I get some um rock re, I cannot see how much I have on the the Rocket Pool website. It just says my re is gone and doesn't really show that I now hold Rock E. So maybe something where you say like, "Hey, if you want to redeem your rock r e or if you want to see how much it's worth, uh, check this link or whatever or a price or something." >> Yeah, that makes a ton of sense. I I will commit to talking to the core team about it. Um yeah, we did like we we did talk a little bit about it during the

development process which was rockool didn't want to of course like replicate the entire sort of you know portfolio management and withdraw and all of the flows um rock solid. Um but yeah maybe a uh like hey you've got you've got rock rock.ref like go here to to manage and and redeem. So >> great suggestion suggestion. Yeah, great great suggestion, Covster. I like that. Um, one one thing though, let me just interrupt here just because it's been 15 minutes into the call and uh for those that have joined here live, there's a POP if you'd like to claim for it. Uh, the uh the rock re ticker actually kind of reminded me of it, but uh the POP code is just the reverse of that. The

POP code for today is re-rock. So, if you have the POP home app and you want a POP for today's call, they're absolutely free. Just claim it. The POP secret word is re all lowercase re-rock r o c k. But yeah, keep keep talking. I got to go claim my po right now. >> Ken, what do you what's the best place to like what's the starting point for those? Like is it the the app or can you do it on the website or >> Yeah. Yeah. The way the way I do it and encourage other people to share as well too. I mean there's an app, you know, I have iOS but I think it's an Android as well. It's just called POP home. It's kind of like an NFP display for all of it. And once you open it up, right, you

link your uh you link your Ethereum account address. And there's a little button, purple button on the bottom. It says mint. >> And uh you know, if you're at a conference, they've got like, you know, GPS enabled minting or NFC minting. And the one we'll use here is a little secret word. And then you just you just type it in and then it shows up. >> Oh, there we go. Rock being >> Yeah, the the the pup the pull up claim word is re-rock. >> Thank you. Thanks for organizing.

>> Yeah, but uh please who's ever next to come on and keep talking. >> So, a couple of new joiners and any questions? I promise we're really chill. Um yeah, we're not scary. I guess I can do another uh if you go to the the Rockolid Network website, there's like a an all vaults option and there is something grayed out saying coming soon. Is there like is it >> a new product for Rockolid or isn't is is Rockolid um like exclusive for RocketPool or will you uh dabble in other protocols as well?

Let me let me take this off because you've been doing a lot of talking and then you can uh jump in. >> Um yeah, so the direct answer to that question is no. Rocksolid's not exclusive to RocketPool. Um but this is our first and definitely our focus. Um like we want to see this vault really succeed and when it says like coming soon like you know for example there could be other iterations of re style vaults and just to give you like a bit of a flavor of some of the conversations we've been having. I mean, a lot of this is confidential, but you know, you've heard of probably these digital asset treasury companies that have these massive massive buckets um of of ETH that they're deploying. Some are staking, some aren't. Some hold LSTs, some some don't. Um or even just like

liquid funds um and different institutional people that that have ETH or are ETH. like a a model that we can do is build these kind of custom maybe even private vaults for these types of institutions who have like specific needs um uh you know whether that's around like sort of KYC privacy like different risk tolerance we can only deploy into these types of DeFi strategies or whatever um so yeah like there there's some examples of like potential future vaults that we're that we're talking to people about and they build and >> and there's like awesome opportunity there to kind of tie in our EH into those as well because >> um you know it's obviously a trusted

kind of blue chip asset that that these institutions are comfortable with >> kind of a similar question which is and you know maybe you've been chatting about this or it comes up is like you know I was thinking about it if you're if you're an LST holder right there's four things that one could do with it, right? You can just hold it, right? Huddle it and and be done. One is you could reuse it as because it's liquid, you could use it in DeFi, right? And I think you made mention of uh you know the community maintain um DeFi integrations or DeFi opportunities for

our ETH holders, right? Uh I guess the new third option is we could just deposit it in the rock solid vault, right? And then you would you and through your your strategic investment firm um uh Tulupa that you mentioned, you guys would determine the best strategy or make make uh you know off-chain agreements for uh incentives and so forth, right? you want to talk just a little bit about like what you're looking to explore or or what type of investments the vault will do and how how does one as a contributor to the vault a uh you know an LST depositor how how do I actually see what investments you guys have chosen to make?

>> Yeah, great question. Um so maybe a multi-art one. Um let me start with like you kind of I did you did a good job Ken of like the the layers almost. It's like you could almost say like hold ETH stake for R E right okay what I could deploy something myself um then you know the next level is yeah deploy to Rockolid and have you know strategy managers deploy that um then actually there's a there's a fourth um and we haven't exposed this in the product uh yet um but I I think we will there is there is a balancer pool now as well um for rockre um to wreath liquidity and that's helpful for um instant redemptions um because you know

you can you can go trade there like it's we only just launched a few days ago so it's not super active yet. We'll see what the the discount lands at but I imagine it'll be very very low because you know you can always redeem for the full rate in the 24 hours. Um but that's a like you can start to see that like um even when you deposit and then you have um your rock shares that grow as the backing assets grow that that even that then can have utility in DeFi and at the moment there's just one one one venue for it but like yeah the sort of sophistication of DeFi that is possible um in re like yeah is is increasing. So that that is super cool. Um and then like you know I'll just say like as as

for like someone who holds R EN what can you do with it? you know the strategies that we're doing you can do almost all of them yourself uh you know like it's most D5 protocols are permission lossless right you can bridge to a you know another um another uh chain you can deposit in incentivized pools um but you know you just have to do the work right of like you know managing and you know looking at funding rates and there's a lot there's a lot that goes on but technically not prevented but what you do miss out on is um being able to um take advantage of having capital pulled in one place and uh you know us and Chuliper being able to negotiate preferred incentives for

depositors. now like you know can't can't promise like you know what um you anything specific but you can see the dynamic when there's you know chains and protocols competing for capital in the form of LSTs that when you have it you can you can generate better terms and so that's one thing that on your own you're not able to do but on a in a fold you can >> and can I sorry so can I just jump in there for a sec because this is this is a little kind of soapbox issue of mine was that you know I think being a naive even idealistic, you know, believing in the ethos of um you know, decentralization and all those things like kind of what's written on the the the label. Um as a retail kind of DeFi user, like I I I believed all those

things. Um and you see numbers go up, you see TVL go up on these protocols and it's like, oh wow, there must be like a lot of people using this product. That's really cool. Um it was only like when we started working on RockSolid that again I say naively I came to realize that a lot of that is offchain backroom deals. It's you see you see protocols launch you see um you know wow they've got I can't believe they've got 500 million of TVL on launch day like wow people must love their product. It's like no, there's a whale or a liquid fund or they bri I say bribe that's an ungenerous term. They've paid incentives to people in order to park their liquidity on these protocols. So like a lot of what you're seeing I won't say it's fake

that's that's maybe a bit too harsh but like it's not organic retail usage. Um, and as I said, I think in hindsight, I was probably naive to not realize that, but I only I personally only realized it once we were we we started this company. We're starting to have these conversations ourselves. And everyone just asked the question like, "Sure, I've got TVL. Like, how much are you going to pay me for it?" Um, and that's just kind of what people do. And I think, you know, as Lang has alluded to at the start, I mean, Rocketpool isn't in a position to do that because it doesn't have this kind of, you know, war chest of money that it can just spray around or I kind of call it the money bazooka. Um, a lot of these newer protocols that kind of raised in this free VC money kind of era, like they

have tens, hundreds of millions of dollars of treasury that they throw around in incentives in this in this way. Um, I guess the reason why I've kind of gone on a bit of a tangent and talking about this is it it kind of makes me feel icky because it it it violates, I would say, these like ostensible like open access decentralized ideals that everyone talks about, but it is also the way that the game is played. And so what we're trying to do is kind of get Rocketpool and Arith holders access to some of those incentives by yeah having a bit of a a money bazooka if you want to put it that way which is the the in the vault to have these conversations with these protocols and say hey yeah we've got 5 million 10 million here how much you

going to pay us for it um so we can sort of play play the game that you know I'm sure I'm sure Etheri is playing that game I'm sure you know Kelp is playing that game. Um, we we can sort of play we can pocket pool can play that game as well. >> Sorry, bit of a that's that's a a personal issue of mine that gets me. I can definitely >> I can definitely back you up on that in the sense that, you know, we've had so many conversations with different protocols, different chains, uh, you know, lots of different players in this space, and it's pretty much, oh, so what we'd want is you to guarantee X amount

of TVL or X amount of of deposits of AR and like >> we're a decentralized protocol. We can we can suggest we can point people in that direction, but there is absolutely no way that we can commit funds to that. >> And uh and that's and that's where like the vault and and rock kind of come into this this play. >> And I'm going to have to say like it's like I think it's great that like you guys actually are really decentralized like that that is true for you guys.

It's not this decentralization theater that you see everywhere else. um you know but yeah I guess unfortunately that's one of the costs of decentralization is that you don't have this centralized kind of money spigot to spray around. So yeah >> uh Ken I think there was the last part of your question which was about the strategies and >> yeah and how do you how do you like is there a group the committee that looks at it? Do you just work with your outside partners to come up with a strategy? But you know, so you start building this base of funds, how do you determine what to do with it?

>> Yeah. No, great question. And that like uh is one of the things we want to make clear, right, is that unlike rocketpool, it's not a decentralized system. There is no say token based voting for like you could imagine a like a truly rocket pool like hardcore vault would be that like only RPL holders could like vote on a strategy and only when it reaches a quorum and blah blah and you can imagine like that would be kind of super cool from a decentralization point of view but um much more difficult to to move quickly and to negotiate um you know off-chain offchain things. So when you deposit in the vault, yeah, what you are depositing into is um you know the expertise of like our um our partner

Juliper Capital like ourselves and like Lagoon the the smart contract provider um you know to make good decisions on on how to deploy this in DeFi and um that's like that that that's the reality. So like how it happens is is yeah we like tulip are constantly out there talking like um looking at the market monitoring the market monitoring positions talking to new protocols and when they um when they um see an opportunity you know they'll flesh it out a bit a bit they'll bring it to us we'll discuss like okay um how much how much of an allocation would that be to a single L2 for example or how much of an allocation would that be to a single protocol and like we want to do things like keep um keep a variety

of positions on a variety of chains, on a variety of protocols. Um, and yeah, it's a it's a qualitative, you know, a qualitative and quantitative process, I would say. Um, yeah, and just very tactically like how does a user or depositor view the positions on the rock solid app? There is a list of there's the list full list of the positions their trailing APR their contribution to the APR of the vault uh and that's published every two weeks and I guess you can see live you can see it live on chain anyway right so >> yeah so on that note someone uh pointed

out that uh there's two there's two links to aggregators on the page one to zero one to debank and zerion is just um bad it uh doesn't actually pick up uh all the positions. It it looks a bit nicer in the UI, but um debank is is way more accurate. So, um yeah, you can view positions in in debank, although again, they they're not always perfect and they they do sometimes take a while to update. So um yeah it is a bit um a bit more treadfire like in that sense in that um the real way is to see when those reports are published what the what the positions were over the past past two weeks

but you can get a pretty good idea from you know the past two week report plus plus what you see on due bank. Hey Stephen, quick question. Does that two week cycle also include like is is nav struck every two weeks or is nav struck like every day? >> Nav struck every day when when at the same time redemption is a process. >> Is that done by a third party provider or by Tulipa? >> It's a it's a two-step two-party process. So Chulipa propose what the valuation's going to be. rock solid verify that based on our view of all of the onchain positions. If if we're happy with it, then we both cosign and and

that's what updates the nav. Um I will just point out though, Nick, as because it's a very good question, the smart contracts um uh they do separate the roles. There is a there is a separate wallet like address that can be the valuation proposer. Um that's that's something that would be cool like um you know uh it there would be some cost right we'd have to you know pay out of the vault fees a third party to to do that third party valuation but that would be kind of cool to have uh even even another party right not just the two um >> appreciate that thanks >> you bet >> so I I had another question um but

certainly others can chime in here but I guess one of the questions I had is um so you know you you'd mentioned I think either in your interviews or perhaps conversations we've had over the past week here or whatever right that you had been developing this a little bit in in stealth mode once it was kind of clear what the product market fit fit was with vaults here but um so now now what I mean the you you've launched right it's working um help me understand here um help me understand kind of what status you are right now and what's going to happen in kind of the weeks and the months ahead here.

>> Let me take a stab at this Steve and you can you can go next. Yeah. So I mean literally what we're doing in the next week is it well me in two days Steve I think you in a day or two we're jumping on a plane to Singapore to token 2049 and we'll be uh talking about this. Um so we've got some kind of speaking slots. We're up on stage. Um Steve's actually up on stage on a reasonably high-profile panel with uh Smokeoky the Bearer and one of the Monad co-founders and yeah we'll be talking about this vault. We'll be talking about Rocketpool and R E and yeah trying to drum up excitement about it. Um we want to as we said like we want to see this vault succeed. We want to see more TVL in the vault. Um our interests are kind of

aligned there with the with the Rocket Protocol in that sense as well. And I guess one thing we haven't explicitly mentioned either is it's implied but we should say it explicitly is the vault is denominated in our ETH and all deposits we accept deposits in ETH staked ETH wrapped ETH and ETH um that gets converted into RE. So we're like we're minting our ETH and kind of generating re demand directly um via kind of accepting deposits in the vault. So yeah, we're trying to grow this vault. Um we're trying to make it big like we're looking at other you know liquid staking protocols like Ether or Lido you know that kind of have um similar products and you know they're over 100 million in in tbl and we want

to see this grow for the benefit of the the rockool ecosystem to that. So yeah that really is our focus. Um yeah and I guess like product improvements like some of the some of the feature requests that we we've heard on this call just today. Um, yeah. I mean, Steve, what what else would you add to that? >> I think from a rocket pool point of view, yeah, definitely grow the TV, right? Like, we literally just told people we exist yesterday. So, there's a lot of activation of our ETH to do out there. I think it's one of those assets that probably, you know, there are a lot of whales that um, you know, got on board early and and and have held a long time, but haven't done, you know, much more

with it. So there's a potential to activate some of that. Yep. Like to see funds in there. Um you know, I'd love I'd love a DAT either to um just take an allocation to the vault itself or if they have very specific needs um but to to to create an R based vault for a for a DAT. So they get the benefit of the decentralized um base layer of AR. But if if the way they've um pitched their um business to public markets is that it's you know generating additional DeFi yield then like you know what better way um so yeah grow the TVL launch new vaults like ideally our re ones um you know if we can find the right customer >> I'm just repeating everything you said

Ben but yeah that's that's it. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean maybe the the thing I'd pick up on what you said, Steve, was that um yeah, like we literally we went public in the Rocketable community yesterday and we went sort of public on Twitter today. Um we've obviously been having conversations with, you know, our ETH holders, ETH holders, um over like the previous months, and it's always hard having those conversations when it's like, oh, we're launching soon, like trust us. Um, now that we've launched, those conversations become a lot easier.

So, it's um, yeah, really kind of putting boots on the ground and trying to um, trying to get out there and yeah, preach preach the word. >> Mention Oh sorry Nick. >> Oh, I I was just going to ask longer term. um you know let's just assume hundreds of millions in TVL uh multi-manager or sticking with Tulipoa >> or to be >> question um there is no uh there's no technology dependency on um on Chilipa um they're a great partner

we like working with them >> you're using MPC through Fortify is that right >> that's All right. So you can allocate these on Fortify policy engines. >> Correct. >> That's right. Um so yeah any any strategy manager uh can work and yeah if a if a protocol comes and says like we love the solution um but we want to bring our own strategy manager that's no problem um at all. Uh as yeah both you guys mentioned it's uh the the the institutional wallet uh back end is Fortify. For the folks who haven't heard of it, it's it's kind of like it's just like Fireblocks. It's probably the number two in terms of assets managed after Fireblocks, which is the one of choice for many institutions. And the nice thing about

Fireblocks too is it is actually integrated um not just with every EVM chain um but also with some others as well like Sooie, Hype, Apptos, etc. So Fireb >> Fortify Fortify. Yeah, thanks for clarifying. Fortify >> Yeah. So Fortify. So yeah, the ability to to actually deploy assets to pretty custom strategies and pretty like specific opinions um you know is there. So yeah, happy to do multim manager.

>> Nice. Yeah, all I hear is fantastic things about Fortify and that it's far more responsive uh and applicable to DeFi than you know traditional Fireblock solution. So good choice. Yeah, we looked at we looked at five seriously and decided that Fortify was the better solution actually. >> I was going to say about the the institutions and DATs. So, we're obviously trying we're obviously speaking to those guys quite a lot at the moment um and uh trying to get them on board in terms of you know holding a and using our ETH. Um but uh you know they have the same issues as any other holder and that is that they want to use

DeFi uh but they don't want to have to necessarily track everything >> um and they and they want to be able to uh kind of you know have um essentially understand their performance and that sort of thing. So in in a way that's understandable to their accountants and and it's like really it's sometimes sometimes it's that simple. Um and so uh you know that's that's where Rockolid can step in and and fill in some of those those requirements for um DATs and for institutions. There's definitely is definitely a uh a demand there for kind of like easy use um DeFi, easy use reporting um for those entities.

Yeah, we're hearing the same. Um like it's like and for folks listening in like it's not obvious some of this stuff but um because because DATs are public like they get valued by like normal investment analysts, right? So they're like okay like how's how's Apple doing? How's Amazon doing? How's how's this DAT doing? And what's the like forlike comparison on those things? It's like topline revenue. it's margins like you know uh uh is revenues growing is margins expanding and so then you're at that and it's like okay I'm getting staking revenue or I'm getting um rewards from DeFi like what's that and the answer to that question um almost determines like how you'll be viewed in

public markets and the SEC has opinions like the DATs themselves have opinions like there are you know there's all that stuff going on but to the extent that protocols or ideally faults uh are able able to like yeah take take the asset in in the way that the DAT wants to give it and deploy it in the way and then like uh provide the rewards back like yeah that's that's real value um you know that that that we can add. Let me ask just another question about the vault on there, right? As I was kind of looking uh uh looking at this and you know, beginning to see how to transact

and understand it better. But uh you know, I noticed that the a the APY on it is, you know, significantly higher than just the base re APY, right? Mainly because of those additional yield opportunities. But any any sense as to like what the long-term sustainable yield will be on this and and and maybe a followup to that, what is the short-term yield with some of the incentives and co-incentives that you're you're planning on running? You want to just talk a little bit about that? >> Yeah, let me let me >> um Yeah, so I'll sort of answer that in three ways. the the today AP APR is 12 and a half%. Um, as part of the kind of

uh yeah incentives early depositors and we really wanted to reward the Rocketpool community as well like which is why we kind of announced on the Rocketpool discord first was to give folks earlier and earliest access to these incentives. Um, we're adding uh the equivalent of $150,000 of AR over this kind of three-month incentive period split split into kind of weekly deposits. Um, and that just goes automatically to uh like depositors in the vault. There's no sort of claiming that just um automatically occurs to your vault shares. um that the kind of APY impact of that if you can sort of well actually I did post a chart in in the in the rocksolid vault discord

channel but if you can kind of imagine like the amount that's getting deposited is fixed the smaller the amount of TVL that is in the vault the greater your prata share of that incentive so like the effective APY is higher um the less TVL there is in the vault and the more TVL that joins everyone gets a greater share so that the APY impact that incentive kind of scales down over time and the benefit of that is that yeah it rewards rewards people who are early and so there's a I'm talking in US dollar terms now there's like you know today's ETH price is around sort of 5 million in the vault um the APY impact of that uh incentive that we're putting in annualized is about an extra kind of 10

to 12%. Um that's on top of like the baseline um DeFi strategies that are getting deployed. Um so the kind of uh but we haven't we're putting that first incentive or the second incentive payment in today. So you'll see the impact of that hit the APY when we do the NAV update um in a few hours. Um so the kind of like very very short-term number today's number is 12 and a half%. Once we add um the incentives in, that number is going to go up. And also there's because it's a 7-day uh trailing APR, there's kind of a lag on we've deployed DeFi strategies at the last kind of 24 48 hours. As those strategies start to ramp up, um you'll see the impact of that in the API number as

well. So yeah, I think like in the next week or two, the headline API number you'll see on the vault will probably be somewhere between like 15 to 20%. Um, but can to answer your question, I'd say the long-term sustainable number when the incentives taper off, the vault's targeting like around 8 to 10% uh from these underlying DeFi strategies that we're deploying into. And that's a mix of uh yeah, leverage looping in our wreath to benefit our Ere and increase the TVL of our wreath um by a multiple of what's in the vault. We sort of do that for the protocol. like you earn some returns on that and it's better than staking returns but it's less than 10% uh return so that the the sort of looping part of it does drag down the

weighted average APR of the vault but we kind of do that for the protocol to generate R demand and then these other strategies are a little bit above 10% and so weighted average it's you know some somewhere in the middle does that sorry I talked a bit too much there does that make sense >> no no I'm just uh you know it's an interesting I guess a little uh I don't want to say stunned but it just contemplating it a little bit because it you know it is very interesting now to see something like this and you know look I I very much you know if if somebody participates in the rocket pull community the the first kind of question you have to decide is on what side do you want to participate on do you want to come in as a node operator learn

technical skills invest in computer hardware maintain responsibility to you know upkeep the node and you know provide service uptime time and um uh you know efficiency ratings and that sort of stuff, right? And you know as a benefit for that you earned a a commission and that was always the um the marketing point for RocketPool node operators, right? Is although we support solo staking uh you know on its principles and so forth but you know if you wanted to earn more come join Rocketpool as a node operator and you know be a carpool driver and you know stake stake other people's ETH and earn earn a commission on it, right? But it's interesting now uh hearing just the long-term sustainability yields it kind

of questions well it actually might make more coming in on the other side and might be better to be an LE holder you know so it uh uh you know it does cause uh cause one to kind of rethink uh you know maybe maybe I should diversify or come in on the other side of uh the the re solution. So, it's very interesting to hear that long term you think those yields could be sustainable in there. >> Why not have >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I'm gonna need more E is what I'm going to need, right? But uh but a follow-up question Dr. Dr. Dufus is asking in trading. He's without a mic and can't come on. But, uh you know, maybe maybe

in the extent of those APIs, what what are your plans for marketing and push, right? I mean, I know you're going to to token here and uh you know, and do it, but like how how do you get the word out on this about that additional additional yield that our ethers can earn? >> Let me I'll be quick this time and then you can jump instead. Um yeah, in the short term, Ken, as you said, it's we're getting out there. We're a token. We're going to Dev Connect um in Argentina a month later. It's us meeting LPS, meeting whales, meeting funds, and just yeah, that's sort of like hand-to-hand combat for want of a better word. Um, I think like organic um sort of awareness within the community,

I think, will really help as well. And I think like the core team and the community and like I think we'll have a good role to play there as well. Like we should do more of these AMAs. we should, you know, do some Twitter spaces and stuff like that like Mav referred to. So, yeah, I think it's a it's a combination of all of all those things. And yeah, I'm just hoping as people sort of become aware of it, the word kind of gets out as well. >> Yeah, there's no there's no shortcuts. Um, I think this is day one, right, of building our our community within the re community and and and and um yeah, go go from there. like we have, you know, like you saw um you know, as as we expand the the product, right?

Like uh you know, we're able to get coverage in the the block, for example. The block's not going to cover every product release, but what I mean is like, you know, we've got a a kind of a what's the word? Um we've got the ability to Yeah. >> Yeah. And to like, you know, we know how to get attention when there's things that are that are attention worthy. And so it's really a matter of, you know, keep improving the product, like listening to feedback, like talking to depositors and like um yeah, just doing doing all of the things done well on TVL.

Nick, do you want to tell us your secret? I'm joking. You don't have to you don't have to answer. Well, with the big uh the massive leverage on wines recently, we we got absolutely smacked on that. So, all I can say is don't get too hyperlooped in some of the positions. >> Yeah, market market conditions can change. But I guess it is um you know one thing to the previous point and maybe Langers you can comment on this is you know I'm I'm still just kind of grasping what this new integration with Rockolid kind of unlocks for the re holders right you know not only

earning the additional yield kind of getting a you know a funds manager on there I'm kind of equating it to traditional finance like an ETF or an investment thing where I'll get some annual statement or quarterly statement and I'll see what you know what the fund is buying and then you know but I know that hey I can just join the fund and people actively manage the the DeFi investments or the strategies to earn the to earn the returns on the re right and I still maintain my position in re and um you know g gain the benefits from either Ethereum the token price increase or the additional yield from staking right so I could I can see why these are very uh very attractive in there but I also now I'm starting to realize a

little bit about the maybe the integrations or the other unlocks it has in business development, right? You know, and I'm thinking all the times that Grant has been interacting with protocols and because as I think maybe what what what you mentioned was, hey, RocketPool is really a like a DAO. I mean, it's it's funny we struggle so much with what does the PDA do, what do the two management committees do, how do we interact with the team, and sometimes we think, oh, the team's, you know, gone too far. And that's really part of the the pe down. And sometimes we're like, well, we need the team to do more and be more nimble. But this really unlocks another another kind of advantage that there is this sort of, you know, you know, I'll say quasi tradfi business development integration with rocketpool

that if they needed liquidity or re resources or integrations, there's there's kind of another set of two individuals they can go to to get that type of business development. Am I incorrect in thinking about that or >> can I just um address one thing uh because I mean reported your comparison to Tradfire Ken I think is like logically the model is similar right it's like I I park my assets here and someone does something very big differences tradfire you know comes with regulators contracts legal claims you know etc crypto crypto doesn't so like yeah like it it should people should ies their exposure appropriately. Um uh but

the model that you describe, yes, like there's a lot of parallels. There's a lot of parallels. Um I'll just um the way I think about it, I think it's similar to what you're saying is like the the the power of rocketpool is the decentralization. Um but that doesn't help you move fast. And so like what I hope this does is let the the protocol focus on being the strongest base layer, the best distri state distributed LST for Ethereum. And yeah, we can help with the like the moving fast and and and taking advantage of opportunities like as they arise with a different set of trust assumptions. Um but you know that that have trade-offs.

>> I think you were gonna jump in. >> Sorry guys, just one last question. Speaking of the the regulatory, you know, conundrum out there, as of now, seems like like many protocols out there, US users are barred from accessing the website unless you're using VPN. Is there any long-term Sorry, this is baby screaming. Um, any long-term view into when those regulatory hurdles may disappear? Yeah, my take is it's it's obviously a much more crypto friendly administration that's in the White House. So like it just feels way less risky than it did you know 12 months ago. But still our

advice was that um just like you know still crypto is an area of exploration like vaults are are an area within that there aren't clear specific guidelines. So best not to serve you know US customers you know at least at the time of launch. So yeah we are we are restricted in the US. Um directionally it seems good in terms of like regulators approach to this stuff but you know as of now yeah it's uh still blocked in the US. Ben, do you want to add anything to that or Lis? I >> I mean, I've I've definitely been surprised how fast things are moving in the US. Uh, you know, liquid staking up until 3 months ago was probably illegal.

I don't know. So, uh, so it is it is moving very very fast. Uh, so I I'd see that changing quite quickly, but you know, it's it's kind of up to the the whims of the SEC and that sort of thing. I I have a question. Um when you are negotiating new deals with with protocols or or layer 2s or whatever, aren't you worried that those new protocols or chains can can also fail?

like how are you sure that that our funds are safe? Do you have like a team for that? And then as a side question, if you make some some deal, but then the next day like a way better deal shows up, do you just move everything over or like how do these layer twos um maintain their liquidity? Like do they just pay more or how does it work behind the scenes? >> Mhm. Yeah, sure. Happy to answer that. Um, so yeah, I guess the first one on the yeah, what happens if a if a protocol that we're deploying into fails. So yeah, first thing I'd say is DeFi is risky. There are risks in this product. We have a comprehensive risk

disclosure in our terms of service. So I read that. Um, but the way that we sort of mitigate the risks that you're describing there, there's a couple. One, we limit exposure to any particular position. um right now if you look at our sort of strategy allocations it's a max of 20% in any one um kind of chain or or set of strategies. So yeah even in the absolute worst case scenario where all funds were lost it would be in in a specific strategy it would be 20% of the total TV vault that would be lost. So that's one mitigation. Uh the other is we're not just deploying into random new chains, right? Like the ones that that we're deployed into right now. Lana, you know, that's obviously a a tier one L2,

you know, built by consensus and has, you know, hundreds billions of of millions of TVL in there already. And we're kind of we're taking that approach to all of these. It's like how much TVL is in there already? How battle tested is it? How long has it been around for? Um, you know, it's a lot of this is subjective and qualitative as Steve said, but we're not yoloing into the late into the latest like 1,00% APY farm on Fatcoin on this new chain. It's a it's a it's a different sort of uh approach. Steve, you look like you're about to >> No, I was just going to say and like Yeah, you like it's like is the bridge high quality is almost the first the first step in that. Sorry, keep going.

>> Yeah. Uh so that was I think your first question. Um the second question uh around oh what do we do? Yeah. If a better incentive comes up. Yeah. So I mean every every deal is is different. Some the deals are just like hey we're going to set up this pool and anyone in the pool who gets the incent is is who's in the pool can get the incentive and we would be the one that would be getting that as well. But it's kind of we've provided that initial firepower to to to to sort of add those incentives in the first place. Um, in that sort of situation, there's flexibility to come and go as you want. Um, some deals are uh there's like off-chain kind of negotiations where it's like, no, you must keep the TVL here for x number of

weeks or x number of months in order to get y incentive. And, you know, we would assess that, Chulip would assess that against the other sort of deals that are out there. And so some might be sort of committed like that. Um, yeah. Or others might let you sort of come and go as you please. Um, yeah. So it really is like kind of deal dependent. Does that does that answer your question? >> I just add one more to it. Um, we don't do like this is something just it's again qualitative. You can't like look at this. It's not implemented in the smart contract. But um we don't do like um uh protocol enforced lockups, right? So uh you know there are things where it's

like if you deposit and you stay for 3 months then you get the incentive. Now if something like bad happened in the market and like there were a lot of redemptions people needed you know ETH and and we need to unwind the strategy. Well, if we had to, you know, we can't um the incentive, you know, you you'd get a lower APR on that particular allocation, but we yeah, we don't do these like ones where you literally have the funds um locked locked up. So, that's um that's that's one thing in terms of yeah, you like, oh, but what if there's just a better deal? I mean, yeah, you could you could assess, but there's also things like there's a um you know, like a a looped position on Ave, right? So it's like maybe you

unwind some of that to deploy to the new one. It's it's active, right? And that's that's some of the the benefit that that Juliper brings. They're able to, you know, assess those those trade-offs. >> I had a kind of a qu a question as well too. you had mentioned uh you know kind of further conversations with it and uh um you know I know you guys have a discord but one thing and I might have missed it if it was in the announcement but there's there's a new uh channel here in the rocketp server right that talked about uh integrations for it where where where should people go if

they have questions or they want to like continue this conversation after uh after this AMA ends like do we go to your discord do we go to that channel in the Rocket Discord Where should we go? >> Yeah, I think RocketPoolers Rocket Pooler should go to the the Rock Solid channel and the Rocket Pool Discord. That's uh that's that's I think like that's where the community is, right? The community for the re vault is is the Rocket Pool one and that's that's where they they we are. So yeah, I would say there we just like launched the Discord.

That's that's been a thing. I think we need to enlist cron's services immediately. It was soon. >> Yeah. >> Thousands of like, hi, can I offer you support? >> Yeah, this is maybe sharing too much. But yeah, we sort of I sort of set up a Discord. I guess that's what you're supposed to do. Set up a Discord and then was immediately yeah, whacked in the face with, oh yeah, we should uh we need we need CR. So anyway, um yeah, I I think the answer to you didn't know what I was signing up for. The answer to I was a Discord moderator for the last 24 hours. Um but I think that the specific answer to your question, Ken, is um yeah, I think folks stay in the Rockpool in the Rocket channel. We're both there.

Tag us there. Um yeah, happy to answer any questions that that folks have. >> Yeah, perfect. And then just in general, is there uh you know, as people are doing their own research and beginning to kind of understand uh what this integration is and what features that it it unlocks, what maybe the uh the risks are, but where where should somebody go to do further research of their own? >> Yeah, check out our docs. Um docs.roolid.network. Um that's the starting point. Um smart contracts are obviously on chain, so you can look at the code. Um, and yeah, just uh ping us at us um if you if you got any questions, happy to happy to answer.

>> Yeah, the audits are linked there too, Ken. We didn't write the smart contracts from scratch. It's a it's an existing implementation of of vaults um that has I think 150 million TVL like as of today. So, that'll be something folks Yeah, will enjoy checking out. But yeah, that's all linked. Uh and the terms there are terms linked you know the boring legal ones but if you really want to understand the risks like we really um you know tried to enumerate everything we could think of there. >> Yeah. And then uh I think you mentioned that uh besides token and yeah you know I've heard lots of things about token.

I've never had the opportunity to go but uh you know that seems like an excellent one to kind of coincide with your launch. It certainly is kind of the big mecca of all all chains, all tokens together. But you also mentioned that you're going to Dev Connect in Buenoseras. Are you going to do any uh kind of meetup or try to coordinate the meetup with the Rocket Pool community? Any any thoughts about uh what you're going to do down there in Buenos? >> Yeah, we should we haven't organized it yet. I haven't all my thoughts been on this launch, but um yeah, we should definitely do a meet up there. We will do a meet up there. Um, we've got a couple of speaking slots there. I think we're speaking at or Steve, you're speaking at staking summit. Um, so maybe

another one. But yeah, actually it's it's a good reminder. Ken, I was meaning to put out like just a general invitation like if anyone's uh from the Rocket Ball community is going to be in Singapore for token, like we can put on like a little drinks or a coffee thing or something. We could just catch up. >> At Dev Connect, we should have steak sandwiches spelled steak. But like with Argentinian steak, that's the event right there. >> As a meat eater, I very much like that. I've only heard legendary things about Argentinian beef.

>> Ken Ken loves his steak. You You sold him. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just don't don't have Gary Gendzer playing in the background spelling it out. >> But yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead. Yeah. >> In the in the in the marketing sort of uh lane. So, um as part of the kind of Saturn launch, um we're we're talking with the the GMC or we put a GMC proposal together. Um but with the team also, um kind of putting money into doing a uh a marketing campaign around um Saturn. Um so, it will be essentially focused on

Arith because as as we said before Ari demand is is going to be our growth limiter so that's where we need to kind of like focus so it'll be around the the kind of like Saturn launch but it'll be focused on on Ari and so you know that's where these guys do play in as well so we we'll probably well we will include them in the in that kind of um uh campaign because uh you know that It's it's um you know it adds it augments the the unique selling point of of Rocketport as well. So um so yeah that's that should work out quite well. I think I think we we'll have a good a good offering.

>> Wanted to mention we are gonna um Oh sorry I'm getting go. Yeah, we'll we'll also put in a um GMC application um to I think I say this. Yeah. To um it would be great to have RocketPool RPL rewards uh in the vault, right? That would be um like a cool way to get uh new folks like so people who've come outside of Rocketpool maybe just chasing the incentives to then all of a sudden be RPL holders and be like what's this about and then you know learn about the whole other side as you mentioned uh Ken of of rocket pool. Um, so we haven't even written it yet. Bit busy. But, uh, yeah, we'll, um, that would be another just another little piece of the like

raising visibility of of Rocket Pool and of the Rock Solid Ra. >> Yeah. No, that's a excellent idea, Paladin. And I I actually got to say, I saw it earlier when you were on the uh, the Rocket Field episode. I love your little neon sign in the back. And I think that is kind of embodies what um the GMC and I think many in the community are thinking is that all of Rocket Rockpool's efforts, marketing, uh messaging communications business development, it all has to be about just producing more and more re that's the that's the product that uh the protocol produces and the only way for the protocol to grow is is really that way.

We really feel with the launch of you know Saturn one and the introduction of megapoles and the better efficiencies and the lower bonding bonding curve at at four E megapoles right that the node operator um side is basically been solved right there's there's plenty of node operators plenty of capacity uh within rocket pole especially after Saturn 1 and really the the big hurdle is just our eat demand and I do think it is so interesting to see how you know something like rock solid and the vaults can work, you know, very synergistically uh with rocket pole and just continue to create, you know, that flywheel effect and produce more and more re. So, I I loved your little neon sign. You got to

you got to sell those on your website. >> Maybe bring some to Dev Connect. >> Yeah, absolutely. Are there any things that uh you know I just want to kind of pause here as we're getting uh you know close to the hour here or maybe a little bit over the hour but uh um any any questions from anybody in the community? This is kind of like your last chance uh during the AMA here. I'm sure you'll you'll find the guys here in uh in the channel. They've got their own their own channel in RocketPool which is awesome. But uh any last questions either from the community or from any of our guests here?

All right. I don't I don't think I'm hearing any of it. Although the video might have frozen. Either that or Lingers is just standing really still there in the office. But uh um but yeah, I don't think I'm I'm hearing anything. Um so with that, maybe we'll kind of bring the official recording to a close here. Um any last words from um Peladin or from Langers? >> I'll start. Uh really appreciate the collaboration with uh Langers, Nick, Darcius, the all of the core team. Uh it's really been awesome. Um I think it's going to be going to be great. It's already great. Um, you know, thanks for having us, Cammy, today. And yeah, I've

been in this community bit over two and a half years and I've really loved it and um, you know, that's why I kind of wanted to build in the space. That's how I got Ben excited about the space. Um, so yeah, really just very grateful uh, enjoying the journey and and looking forward to the future. >> Yeah, I mean from our party likewise. I mean, uh, the Rockol team have been fantastic to work with. um they've been extremely professional and uh and they've they've achieved a lot um o over the time that we've been working with them. Um I think the future is very very bright. I think uh Rockolid augments um Rocket Pool really well. Um and yeah, I

can't wait to see how it grows. >> And Pasta Master, any last thoughts from you? >> What was already said? Really looking forward to it. All right. And uh Mav, I don't know if you're still with us or if you're having fun in the Korean blockchain week here, but any any last things for the community about uh future calls coming up or any messages you want to share before we stop the recording for those listening to it on the podcast and the YouTube.

>> Yeah. Perfect. Well, thanks, Nav. Yeah. Well, I wish everyone a kind of a good day here. We'll stop the recording and folks are more than welcome to kind of hang out in the channel and chat here and hopefully uh we'll hear a little bit of alpha that uh maybe they'll share once we stop the recording. So, all right. >> Thanks. All right. Thanks, Ken. All right. Cheers. Cheers. Cheers.