Robinhood Chain's Memecoin Boom + Tokenized Stocks

Transcript

You sound like a grandfather, like [laughter] lecturing a child. >> I look, it's kind of our role now is to be grandfathers for the industry, you know, >> not a dividend. >> It's a tale of two fun. >> Now your losses are on someone else's balance sheet. >> Generally speaking, airdrops are kind of pointless anyways. >> Trading firms [music] who are very involved. >> I like eat the ultimate. >> DeFi protocols are the antidote to this problem. >> Hello everybody. Welcome to the chopping block. Every couple weeks the four of us get together and give the industry insiders perspective on the crypto topics of the day. So quick intro is first got Tom the DeFi maven and master of memes.

>> Hello everyone. >> You got Tarun the gigab brain and grand puba at gauntlet. >> Yo >> and coming back we've got Laura CEO of the show. Welcome back Laura. >> Thanks for having me. >> And I am a head hype man at Dragonfly. We're early stage investors in crypto. But I want to caveat that nothing we say here is investment advice, legal advice or even life advice, ley chopping blockbot.xyz for more disclosures. So the story of this week has been the rise of Robin Hood chain. So we've alluded a little bit to what's going on on Robin Hood chain, but it seems to have hit a fever pitch recently. So when Robin Hood chain first launched, there was a little bit of a peak kind of started to come down and people thought, "Oh, maybe this is a flash in the pan. Kind of a one hit

wonder. Maybe got people a little bit excited." If you recall when we had Thread Guy on the show, Thread Guy was speculating that, you know, I don't really know that Robin Hood is bringing in new users. These might just be people front running other users who haven't shown up yet. But now all of a sudden, we've got this second rally in Robin Hood chain, and it seems to be much more explosive than the first. We are now seeing over 125,000 active wallets, 5.7 million transactions per day, $1.2 billion in DEX volume, 2 million in REV in a single day. REV standing for realized what is it realized value or something basically like total number of fees that are paid on a blockchain. So all of a sudden there's a lot of economic activity happening on Robin

Hood and a lot of this economic activity is being driven by some of the meme coins as well as some of the stock tokens that have been tokenized on Robin Hood. We'll get to talking about some of those and what's happening there. But a lot of this has gotten people excited that hey maybe in fact Robin Hood chain is working. We are onboarding real normies into crypto again and all of a sudden there's a new distribution channel that's bringing people back online. This has led to a rally in arbitum which of course they're built on top of the arbitrum stack and there's a kickback of fees that the Robin Hood chain generates to uh Robin Hood.

There's also been a discussion about Ethereum and of course Ethereum does get the some of the fees but a very small amount because these are just data availability fees. It's basically just paying for the right to publish certain data into the the the Ethereum blockchain, but it doesn't really capture any of the transaction fees or the value in the same way that arbitum is doing. So, some people have argued, hey, look at this. It shows that there's almost no value that's being captured by the layer 1. Isn't this bearish for layer 1's even if it's bullish for layer 2s or for some of the layers that are actually participating in the rally?

Tom, what's your reaction seeing what's happening on Robin Hood chain? Is this the nail in the coffin for L1's being able to benefit from L2s built on top of them? >> I thought I thought Tun was uh the Robin Hood chain guy. I Yeah, >> Robin Hood chain guy. >> He was the one who was excited to talk about Robin Hood chain. I um Oh, okay. >> I mean I I am surprised that like you know you have a corpo chain that has like this kind of activity. It's also not like I mean I guess like they do have you know half the volume in in these like tokenized stocks. So, it's not like totally meme coins or it's these like interesting kind of synergies, which I guess we're going to kind of talk about it at some point, but yeah, I don't know. I I don't know. I'm

curious what the reaction is internally at Robin Hood. Like, I'm sure when they were building this, like, oh, you know, we have this, you know, beautiful vision of this new financial system and 24/7 stock trading and, you know, this global permissionless chain and then it's like, oh, no, people want to trade uh, you know, vulgar meme coins and, you know, there there's something very human about it. I don't know. >> Tune, Mr. Robin Hood, what do you have to say? >> I don't know if I'm Mr. Robin Hood, but I would say I I enjoy seeing M forks show up again when it's like, you know, >> 26.

>> Yeah, they're forks. So, >> so the most interesting dynamic and um I think Tom is being a little too PC and not >> for those who don't know M is an old like basically stable coinish Ponzi scheme. Basically, the best way I can describe it, there were a number of M and M forks on Ethereum that blew up famously in 2022. So, someone The real protocol survived. That's actually the more important thing, right? The original one is still around. I mean, their treasure is huge. >> It did also spawn the 33 meme, which still is around to this day, and I feel like it's outlived actually. Um, so, uh, you know, >> survived in the sense that Rome has survived. Yes. It's like it ain't what it was.

>> Yeah, it's true. So anyway, the [clears throat] most interesting thing to me is um people have basically it's too bad Robert's not here because like people have basically tried to do the thing he was doing. Do you remember when Robert bought a bunch of this public company and was gonna Yeah. So >> yes we do. Yes we do. >> Interesting an interesting thing is like the M forks are sort of like using memecoins in a creative way. So the and and it's not just they're not exactly owned. The contracts are modified enough, but you can think of them as like some kind of like memecoin launchpad where you launch a memecoin and you you have to bond to the

memecoin, but the the asset you pair it with is an underlying stock. So the idea is sort of like you to to mint this memecoin, you basically have to to buy the stock and you lock some of it into the LP. So, it's like imagine you take $100 of stock, you you you mint and you get $10 of $10 of your memecoin is locked and 90 is is back to you. The 10 that's locked is to provide liquidity just like this kind of classic bonding curve type of thing, right? Where like some of the but the interesting thing is that the stock pairing basically makes a memecoin almost like a token incentive for an individual stock. So you know if you think about the M case you had M

locked M and ETH right and ETH was like the stock and so like everything kind of revolved around that right and the locked ohm was sort of used for liquidity to like make sure that you could trade for ETH and then the M itself was like what was I'm simplifying things there's there's G S and some other tokens that we don't need to remember remind everyone or of the brain damage from and so >> saw the best minds of my generation >> [snorts] >> Yeah, that's like that Jeff Hammer Bacher quote about the best minds my generation worked in advertising, I guess. Yeah.

>> But uh but anyway, the uh >> the main point is that the memecoin is the incentive to mint the stock token. So it's like so the most famous one that grew a lot over the weekend was the um the meme coin called Boner uh which was paired with HIMS the uh online drug retailer who is famous for having in New York City at least lots of ads of phallic symbols to represent ED medication you can buy from them on subscription. And so um the the the the idea was the boner token was paired with the himtock the tokenized himtock and over the weekend obviously the uh the uh himtock it deped from the last traded price

quite substantially [laughter] you know peg is the wrong word but deviated from like where it traded because uh because uh yeah sorry there's too many puns here it's too good >> very good >> and uh and so the idea was a boner token in kind of was used almost became a liquidity incentive to mint the the hint. >> The boner token had a liquidity incentive. [laughter] >> That's why this is beautiful cuz it's like you can't you you try to avoid any innuendo and like you can't avoid it in this >> but the the most interesting thing is like you're using the memecoin the way you use like token farming incentives, right? Like often times a protocol might issue its governance token so that people deposit liquidity. here. You're

using it to incentivize people minting the RWA, grow the RWA, right? And I think the most interesting thing about this was the user base seems to kind of be like the Salana memecoin traders who were using FOMO and they because the experience abstracted it away so much. I think it was like 90,000 of 125,000 addresses were from originated from FOMO. I I saw some statistic like that. I didn't verify it. So, whatever. But FOMO tweeted something like that or said something like that. And so, that sort of is is an interesting thing of like Bemecoin traders are not loyal to a chain anymore. That was the first lesson I got from this, right? They're not this Salana loyalty thing. I think

there was certainly a time that was true. I think if that is there's any left, it's gone. But the second thing is using the memecoin as a liquidity incentive to mint this kind of like off-chain asset is sort of a very clever hack in some ways. And >> well, okay, so I I think it's stupider than what you're describing because what you're describing sounds like the incentive like maybe Hims is doing this in order to create >> No, no, I don't mean that HIMS is trying to do this. I mean, people are doing it as a joke, but in incredibly they're like optimizing Robin Hood's KPIs, which are like increase the number of tokenized stock.

>> Well, it's worse than that. It's worse than that, right? So, like, okay, so what people are doing is they're getting really excited about this memecoin over the weekend, which is only kept in line by HIM's tokenized stock trading with the true value, right? And because people are like, "Oh, this memecoin is running. Better buy in now." You know, you buy over the weekend. Hims has deped massively. So, a bunch of people start buying this meme because they think it's going up and people on Robin Hood or on on FOMO are buying it. And of course, on Monday morning when you can start to mint this stock again, everybody who's bought this stock or this this memecoin is going to get destroyed by the people who can run the ARB, right? So, you are handing all of this money every time [clears throat] one of these

meme coins runs up. you're handing all this money in this big massive DPEG to like hedge funds and that's the thing that everyone's getting so excited about and people seem to be like relishing this >> again. I I think I think a thing about memecoins that is like fundamental to them that like I don't get and you don't get cuz we're unks or plumbers or whatever the [ __ ] old people are called this cycle. >> I think the plumber meme is like the the people who are around in DeFi summer who are suddenly going back on chain are the plumbers. Yeah. So, I you know, I I I'm sidelined. I I didn't even download FOMO. I didn't didn't try this. I feel kind of >> I I I feel like I'm enjoying it more from the like reading the smart contract code side, which means I'm not not my

capital is kept away from this, but I it's it's interesting to look at, you know, it's like it's kind of a very fun. So, actually, so this kind of I feel like is some weird mashup of like Defi summer with like the GameStop Mania and then also reminds me of like the LA Vape Cabal thing where basically like there's some element of like, >> oh, look, haha, look at how much money we can lose a little bit. >> Yes, exactly. There's entertainment value in losing money. That's what's happening for sure. That's what's >> happening. It's kind of some kind of weird generational. It's sort of like the G. So the GameStop, >> it's like financial jackass. That's what this is.

>> Yes. [laughter] >> I called it BDSM, but I think jackass is probably a better girth description. [laughter] >> That that also dates us, by the way, as like super. [clears throat] >> Yeah. But the DeFi summer element is just like kind of this super creative people. people are there there's just sort of this like frenzy and like all these people are getting in and they're doing all these like wild things that they haven't done before. It's kind of like that feeling. So there I don't know like to me I'm watching all this and obviously I'm like older than I'm sure like 99% of the people who are engaging in this. So I'm looking at this and I feel like there's something kind of generational or like like this is it like so I know normally we talk

>> Yeah. Like meaning so I know I know >> generational anti-wealth [laughter] losing all your money. >> Yeah. >> They're just stupid. Like what are you saying? >> No, but because it's not only about that. It's like something about like the tech and Yeah. Um so what I'm trying to say is that like if we look at the GameStop thing like even that like seemed kind of weird, right? Because like GameStop like obviously it wasn't like some amazing stock, right? So there is something about >> GameStop there was a theory that oh we're going to short squeeze all the hedge funds and we're going to we're going to beat Wall Street.

>> Oh no no no the same same thing was here. The same thing was we're short squeezing all the hedge fun hedge funds and hymns by trading this over the weekend. >> That really that was the meme. >> There was a meme and there was also there's another one. There was a meme coming called Cinema which was paired with AMC >> and that one that one was funny cuz like Monday morning market opened and it dep so badly and like the tokenized stock was just trading way below the real one for a long time. >> Oh wow. Well, I mean like it it the problem is that like the math doesn't work. like these tokenized stocks are tiny compared to the underlying stocks, which was different from GameStop, right? GameStop, it was like, oh, all of us are going to come together and we're this huge, you know, sea of school of

fish. >> I'm not saying that like the logic I'm not saying the logic is the same. I'm I'm just saying there is something about like the like the pe it's more like the mob comes and they can can use this technology or or like with GameStop it was you know they were doing things with like actual stocks but like it's more like this kind of internet it's sort of like 4chan meets DeFi meets stock token I don't know do you understand what I'm saying it's more like an online behavior >> it kind of rhymes yes it kind of rhymes if you zoom way up >> that's what I meant about like zoom generational and cultural that's what I'm talking about >> the problem okay so I I think many >> I'm not talking about the logic I'm not talking about the logic

>> one no logic obviously cannot work like ask your AI people have AI now right if you're like hey I have this idea that I think we can we can short squeeze people by buying a memecoin like ask your AI be like are you a [ __ ] idiot no take your give me your keys like you're not allowed to touch this >> yeah no I'm talking about like behavior that's what I'm talking about >> the other thing is like there's no proletariat against the Wall Street thing going on here. It feels to me much more like this is these are meme coins. These are these ones are running. Here's a new game. You don't understand this new game. Every cycle there's a new game. This is an RWA themed game because RWAS are the thing and here's how you can play a stupid speculative game that

is RWA themed. That's what this feels like. But no, no, no, but but I I will say one thing that is kind of interesting is um this meme mania got much more unis swap v4 hook usage than unis swap got in its entire time like like a lot of important pieces. Yeah, that's >> a lot of the forks of these Ethereum protocols that didn't it wasn't like the code was wrong. They were just kind of launched in a weird market. They didn't have like a fervor to like incentivize people to build things. I think that's the interesting thing about this is like it's like there was no new code written.

This is like a mashup of a lot of existing protocols like there's one ohm fork I'm forgetting the name is that I think that one is called uh net capital and there's pawns which is even more funny that pawns is like the unis swap v4 token their v2 thing and I just like think hey look if something is going to incentivize people to go use this old this like code that people wrote and like it's going to maybe at least temporarily increase the net supply of these tokenized rwas. Am I gonna be like complaining because like otherwise who you kind of need some like fervor?

>> Yeah, I was gonna say like with enough demand you can get new issuance and and total RWA issuance on Robin Hood chain has gone up. Um I think they're up to like 70 80 mil and so hey you know for some of these like low cap public companies like you can imagine a world where like >> 78 mil total across the entire chain. >> Yes. >> Okay. And that's how big is the base of RWAS of or RWA equities? >> Uh you mean like three billionish? >> Yeah, that also includes like >> very small. >> I feel like a lot of that are like tokenized treasuries and and money market funds but they rolled up.

>> I think the three billion is equities. It's ono plus B stocks plus X stocks is like three to four. >> Yeah, I had to look this up recently. So I that's >> mainly those that tell you is like this is not a this is not an accelerant for the tokenization boom. >> No but before they had like basically no minting there was like sub a few million total and like over the weekend on Robin over the weekend. So I'm just saying like look >> they came for the boners they leave for the hymns and like maybe the h stay stay minted >> for the No. So I think the right way to understand this is that you know I often describe a lot of the memecoin stuff as casinos.

>> Why do you want people to have fun? >> They keep resetting. >> Why do you want people to have fun? >> Because they will because like a good casino operator it's important how people have fun. >> You don't just let people just get the game is so low already. But the phone rate is already like 6%. >> So why are you making it worse with like this kind of stuff? It's definitely [gasps] going to result in capital destruction. >> Yeah, I know. But see this honestly I feel like so this is kind of a very similar point to what I was making last time when I was on here and I was talking about MSTR and STRC and you guys like only were looking at it like literally through the math and I was trying to explain that the larger point was about human psychology and it's like

I feel like sometimes you're like so stuck in like always looking at things like a VC but like I'm just talking about like look at the whole entire memecoin mania like you had 99% of all people losing money on this but it was like it went for a very long time. it's still going on and like you you don't get it and you like keep saying like oh it doesn't make sense and whatever and yeah okay like right if you're looking at it super rationally through the numbers and right it doesn't make sense but that's what I was trying to say about like I it's a cultural thing it's like and and that's what I meant about my LA vape cabal comments it's like there's something where it's frankly just very nihilist which I know is like the commentary about meme coins generally but it is almost like and and

and I would even apply this to prediction markets actually also because that's another place where like yeah people lose money but it's almost like >> look we are investors in prediction markets we understand that people gamble and people do stupid stuff people buy meme coins obviously we invest in crypto we get that >> but there's a difference between okay I'm going to go buy some stock or some token or whatever that I think maybe it's 100x and I am going to play a game that I'm guaranteed to lose that's bad we should not encourage that we should not we should not talk about that as as though that's okay or as I'm not I'm not making a moral I'm not making a I'm not making a moral judgment on it which which I I I agree with you. Those aren't good things. What all I'm trying to say

is like I'm watching this and to me I'm that's why earlier I was saying I'm seeing something generational. I was talking about something generational or cultural because I agree with you. It doesn't make sense but we're seeing like the same pattern over and over again. So yeah that that's >> anthropologist. She's not you know passing passing judgement. Look, there might there's someone is getting some utility out of it. It's not financial utility, [laughter] but it's some utility. I don't know what they're measuring it. >> No, people have expected they believe they are getting utility out of it and they're very >> Have you watch some of these streams? I don't think they they like going to have money very soon if they keep doing this like >> Okay, thank you. Thank you, grandfather.

Thank you. You sound like a grandfather like lecturing a child. >> I look it's kind of our role now is to be grandfathers for the industry. I I I get it. I get it. I'm just saying like let them if they want to have fun. I don't know. I like I'm not here to like stop you like >> Yeah. No, but I agree. >> So like I agree with Hib like so my comments before were observational, but I agree with HB and the reason why I agree that it's really not good is because basically you know with this bare market we truly saw like it just really felt like just retail kind of evaporated like they just got super [ __ ] wrecked. like the whole memecoin thing, they just they it just felt like they completely wrote off crypto. And it's funny, I had Jeff Dorman on the

show and we were talking about how actually when you look at so many objective measures, crypto is in a better position than ever. And so I was saying, "Oh, but it makes sense that sentiment is down so bad despite the facts given the whole memecoin craze." And he couldn't he like couldn't understand what I was saying or he couldn't see that perspective. And I was so confused. So it's like how can you not understand this? It doesn't matter what the facts are. It's like if you were in the trenches and you were like losing money constantly like you were going to feel down bad and you don't care like oh stable coins are being adopted. We have the genius act like you don't care about the ETFs. You don't care about like any of that stuff. It just doesn't matter. The the fact that crypto is in a better position than ever

just doesn't matter. So anyway I agree with Hibbit is bad. Anyway, sorry. So now now I feel like I'm my first points were just observational. Now I I'm saying if I'm going to make a judgment I agree with his >> I I just don't I don't know what you can you can't really stop people from >> we literally I mean look we literally have a >> point of a blockchain is let them go crypto industry look I'm not telling you look you're not allowed to deploy on [ __ ] Robin Hood chain or whatever obviously you can but look here's here's the perspective I come from right we started this year from the perspective of retail has been destroyed the memecoin supply chain has just been just absolutely just scalping people and like all the people in the middle who are getting paid of like the Libbras of

the world and like just all the scandals that have plagued memecoins right now. We're getting to a place where it's not just oh we're in this big Ouija board and some [snorts] of them go up and some of them go down. Now literally you are mechanizing things that will definitely result in things going down. Even if nobody in building the memecoin makes money the hedge funds will make money. So I I I think crypto has this way and I I think we talked about this last time with u uh with the red guy on the show that anytime there's like a new primitive crypto finds a way to remix it and create a new game, right? And I thought that okay, maybe it's going to be AI, there's a new AI capability and that's going to get people excited and it's going to drive a new cycle. Turns

out it's RWA. What can you do new with RWA? I didn't think there was much, but turns out this is something you can do with RWAS that creates a new game and it's pretty stupid. You're almost certainly going to lose money if you do it, but it's a new game and people clearly on Twitter did not foresee that this was how it would end up. But if you spent 10 minutes thinking about it and talking to your AI, they would tell you, "Here's exactly what's going to happen to your stupid memecoin." just I think this goes to in the future I actually think there are going to be so many tokens and there's going to be so much value floating around all the time that I actually do think that [laughter] I know this is like a weird thing to say but yeah there will be ways where people

entertain themselves and they lose money in the process but like is that that different from you know you literally like go to a concert or you go to a comedy show and you're like spending the money like is it that different like either way you or you you >> No, no, no, no. See, see, >> I think you need to torture yourself for about 12 hours and watch a bunch of streams. It's a worthwhile endeavor to understand that there's this entertainment value that's like completely divorced from the memecoin. That's like watching someone lose their It's a thing. And I I you just have to respect that there's like a professional gambler. Like I understand that people gamble and it's fun, >> right? Okay. But separate from gambling,

let's talk about as entertainment. How much do you think you spend on entertainment a month? >> I don't know. >> I mean, but fun has >> it doesn't even matter what the amount is. So, >> Sure. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know why matter. >> So, let's say let's say it's like $500 if you were to play around with these meme coins and you get entertainment value out of it and you end up losing $500 a month on it. Like, is it that different? >> Yes, it's very different. It's very different. The reason why it's very different is that the person who is playing around with the memecoins, they don't think they're spending $500. They think they're making $500. They are diluted. And if they are deluded because they've been informed by some memecoin influencer that, oh, you should get into

this trade. You're going to make a bunch of money. You're going to get financial freedom. Lever up your >> That's why the memecoin thing was so bad last year. But what if they're doing this in a group chat and they're like trading memes with their friends? Like then okay [laughter] I mean, look, are are people who did this last year happy that they were like, I got so much entertainment out of all the money I lost last year on memecoins? Like, do you read this coin? >> I don't I I'm not trying to say that that you're you're wrong, but I'm just saying there's like some demographic that this is like an entertainment source.

>> You go to a casino, people in a casino know why they're there. They are not confused. They don't think they're making money. They know that they are being entertained. Nobody in the casino is telling them actually you're making money playing a slot machine or you're actually making money playing roulette. Like a casino is honest, straightforward, transparent. Right now, if you're buying a stock or if you're buying, you know, a crypto asset that represents a real thing, then you are potentially going to make money and it's a matter of your judgment whether whether or not you succeed. If you are yoloing into some meme coins that an influencer is telling you to buy, you are almost certainly losing money. You and I know that. We have the stats. We saw what happened over, you know, pumped out fund buyers over the course of 2025.

It's like 95% of people lost money, right? The odds are overwhelming that you are losing money doing this. The problem is not that people are losing money. It's that they think they're making money. That's the problem. >> Tom, you haven't weighed in at all. I'm very >> I don't know. I've kind of been like I I think it's it's almost sort of like a question of like, you know, is is it a swap? like is it strictly zero sum or like I think to your point I actually think the entertainment value is the fact that there are like paper gains for people and like that's the thing that it's sort of like as long as no one sells a thing goes up and then people think that they're making money for a long period of time and so that's maybe the kind of pernicious thing that you're

calling out versus you know literally for a sports bet or playing roulette or something like there's just a very transactional you know dollar amount that sort of goes through and there isn't sort of this like inflated paper wealth thing I think that's kind of thing that that maybe traps people or I think you feel it's kind of cruel. >> Yeah, I think especially if you're designing these things, right? Obviously, people are now copying this mechanism. It's the hot thing. Uh you know, I've been reading all these posts about, oh, this is the new meta and blah blah blah blah. And what does that mean? That means that the supply chain of memecoin grifters is out in full force and they're going to create a bunch of these and they're going to market them and they're going to hire the influencers and they're going to do

they're going to do the whole thing. We know how this industry works. It was all gruesomely unveiled to us over the course of 2025 when the last cycle blew up. Those people aren't gone. They, you know, they don't they don't have anything else to do that's going to make them this kind of money. So now I do think this mechanism is so brutally inefficient that they will quickly move away from this, right? Like you only need a couple weekends before people realize, oh, don't do this one. This one is not good. Leads to a very short halflife. But the meta of, oh, find a memecoin and attach it to some RWA, that's definitely going to continue. And in principle, that's look, I mean, look, I I I think if you if you're buying meme coins, you're probably going to lose money. I think the data is pretty

irrefutable on that. That said, as long as you understand what you're doing, cool. Have fun, do your thing. I I just think there's a there's a cynicism about the the simplicity of saying, oh well, you know, caveat mour like what are you going to regulate the blockchain? No, that's not what I'm saying. But I am saying that we as a voice in the industry, I think it's important to to kind of mark where you stand because people make choices about what they advocate for and what they promote. I'm I'm for what's worth I'm not trying to say, hey, you should go put this is not like me saying financial, but I think it's like funny to watch. Like there's there's something fundamentally funny about this like idea that like RWA's no one can [ __ ] organically uh induce

them on chain, right? It's like look at the number of like RWA launches that have like had trouble getting liquidity on chain, getting users, getting distribution. And then it's like this shitty memecoin is like increasing RWA distribution like in a way that like you don't >> we just established it's like >> No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. The difference is actually a lot of the RWA issuance on chain is like mainly whale issuance in a lot of RWA. It's not it's not like tin. This is all like pure like$ five dollar $10 like tiny retail bets. So I think there's like kind of an interesting thing here that's like this is exciting to like the small the GameStop small trader and like I look I'm not I'm not like look you can you

can you can it's not like I can disagree with your moralization. >> It's more that I just think it's like how the [ __ ] do they convince someone to incentivize RWA? They're the hardest thing to incentivize because it's like the nof fun anti-token industry part of crypto and like this thing found a way to like shove a token in, right? That's that's the impressive part. Yeah. I mean the 70 mil that's also up 50%, you know, week on week and some days there's like several times more pure stock volume than like memecoin and stock volume. So there is like a possibility that maybe people stick around or maybe people go and they just use this as a primary venue for trading. I don't know. more stock volume than meme volume. How's that possible

>> on some days? Yeah. Um versus like the paired assets. People want to trade RWAS or they want to go buy some. I don't know. It's not every day, but some days it is the case. >> It's probably because they're deep pegging them so hard. That's [laughter] what's >> Yeah, that's also possible. I haven't looked into it, but >> that's probably what [laughter] that is. Um Wow. Okay. >> Yeah. Just just to make clear my comments, I agree with the Steve like I would never do this, but I'm just saying from an anthropological anthropological perspective, I can see why it's happening.

>> Yeah. So, I I so I didn't mean to grandstand. Obviously, I don't think that you guys think it's good that people are losing their money on stupid. >> No, I just think it's like how the [ __ ] is this the thing that's entertaining? Yeah, look, it's it's it's it's yes, it's obviously funny and bizarre and >> I would be interested if in 10 years there is like this is just part of like how stuff is. Like there's entertainment in losing money on stupid things that have value. Honestly, >> I don't think so. I I really don't think so. I think like again, these things are self-correcting. There's a lot of times in history when people spent money doing stupid things that didn't work.

>> Okay. So, but doing all those but so then why do you think that like yet again we are seeing this even though we already went through the >> new because it's new. Because it's new and people haven't been hit in the face yet and they just got hit in the face. They'll need to get hit a couple more times and then once they do they will stop doing >> but how many time like that's what I'm saying like don't you think 10 years from now there might be a new thing where people >> Oh, well in 10 years the AI is going to be doing all their trading. So, you know, >> okay, [laughter] >> it's going to be harder. >> Another thing that's actually kind of interesting to me just from a like market structure point of view is most memecoin launchpads are like single

numerator, right? They're all in soul or all in ETH or the own type of things with bonds. They're also like kind of ETH is the main asset. There's like one stable real high liquidity asset and many small assets. Here you have many reasonable liquidity assets on 9 to5 and then many small assets like the many to many thing versus the one to many is like different. So I'm kind of curious if that changes the like structural dynamics here. That's like kind of the thing I'm looking for. >> Yeah. And I think unis swap also started pairing the stocks against indices. you know, if you want to trade HIMS, I guess it's traded against Triple Q or whatever the equivalent is or I don't know what if.

>> So, I'm just saying like there's something interesting about the fact that there's more than one numerator here for meme coins versus one. That's that to me that's the thing that stands out as like market structure is going to be different. I just don't know how to predict what cuz right now it's just like idiocracy, right? Like so we have to wait till it calms down a little bit to figure out like >> Yeah. >> But I do love the plumber meme. I love the idea that the unks are plumbers. like you you've been around crypto long enough. You're a plumber. You're like Mario and >> are not plumber. Plumbers were the normies who came in in 2017. We are unks cuz we made money from the plumbers.

>> I I I [laughter] think I think they're two separate groups. >> All the FOMO traders are calling all the old DeFi people plumbers right now. >> Is that okay? >> Cuz we're [laughter] okay. All right. Fair enough. Maybe >> it's just like the memes are funny. Like I just feel like I I feel like maybe it's just like I'm I'm enjoying the entertainment of being a a spectator of this, you know, like >> Yes. Yes. I there was a there was a tweet where somebody said um boner boner is one of the the token that's paired with him uh or hims that boner is the fartcoin of rwas.

And I was like, okay, this this sentence just this sentence [laughter] boner is the fartcoin of rwas is just like put it put it in the loop. I mean, I'm just hoping I'm just hoping we get to the level of it stupidity [laughter] that was like, you know, there were all these like traditional hedge fund managers when Fartcoin was like a billion FDV just like going on Twitter being like this is why capitalism is useless and has all these, you know, it's not optimized in like kind of like what you were saying [laughter] >> but about fartcoin. So I'm just kind of like, you know, I think the top is in when you hear the like, you know, what's the what's like AQR guy going on the D tribe against crypto, you know, like like if that happens, at least we're back in the news.

>> We are back in the news. We are I don't know if this is what we wanted to be in the news for, but we are back in the news. >> So related to >> Wait, wait, before we move on, I I have a question for everyone. we have to go around is what is your dream stock memecoin pairing if you had to choose just aesthetically remote you know like aesthetically which one do you want like which which which pair do you like >> of an existing memecoin I don't think I know >> no no just just take a sock take and make a memecoin name like imagine you're hitting you're sitting in pawns family and you're like do I do I make the Nvidia memecoin do I make the sky memecoin do I make the Ford memecoin Come on. You got to have some something

I thought about to ask us in advance because we're going to have to [laughter] take a little while to pick one. Pick a public company you like. >> All right. True. Why don't you Why don't you begin? Why don't you begin to propose the exercise? >> Yes. I think I want to pick cargill and cow [ __ ] or like fertilizer or like horse, you know, like horse manure. Manure. I want like manure to be the token and then like you know something that has to do with fertilizer. >> Okay. Incredible payoff. Uh [laughter] >> I just you know like the point here is that like you >> I can't believe you were denying being the Robin Hood chain guy at the beginning of this segment. By the way Robin Hood chain once. I'm just saying

that I I like have enjoyed watching >> I only use it to benchmark it. Okay. [laughter] Yeah. No one else has any ideas of like an aesthetic. >> No. The answer is no. I have no I have no vulgar memes about anything. >> This is why this is why you don't get the people who find entertainment. >> I I will readily admit that. I will readily admit that. I look so the other story that I want to get to was there's a lot of talk about is Robin Hood chain now overshadowing Salana. So Flood came out and he wrote this tweet. Salana is in the most perilous place it's ever been since its inception. Uh some of the points that people have raised toward this point is that Salana was the first to do tokenized stocks and of course it

had all the memecoin share. You know pumpf fun was on Salana. Um and so if people were going to do crazy stuff with RWAs and memecoins why is it happening on Robin Hood chain and not on Salana right now Salana has no purpose exchange that really has any meaningful market share. It has almost no RWA market share now with you know Robin Hood and and Ethereum kind of taking over the game. It has most of its trading pairs are now I guess not most but many of it saving trading pairs are increasingly moving to stable coins rather than against soul and it seems like it maybe had a first mover advantage that now is being co-opted by Robin Hood as a second mover. So, bunch of people going back and forth about whether or not this is sleeping on the king or if in fact

Salana was just too early and it it basically wrote a playbook that uh Robin Hood is now in the position to be able to capitalize on. Or to your point, Tarun, if you're coming in through this through FOMO, which we know majority of Robin Hood traders are are using FOMO. If you're on FOMO, you don't care what chain it's on. You could be on any of these chains. It's immaterial to you because the chain lockin has disappeared. So, thoughts around the room. Is this a death nail for Salana because of how Robin Hood is um you know taking over the mantle? >> I mean you know what's so interesting to think about those rumors about how Robin Hood chain almost went with Salana and at the last minute switched to Arbitum.

Could you imagine if you don't remember that? >> I don't remember that. >> Yeah. While back well there >> Yeah. I mean this was like last summer if I recall correctly. Oh, longer. I think longer than that. >> Yeah, they already announced it last summer. >> They'd already announced it by last summer. I think it was like 6 months before like late 24 probably 2024. >> Yeah. So, I never was able to verify this beyond just something to be a separate Salana instance or they were just going to be on Salana.

>> I think they were going to be on Salana. >> Okay. >> You nobody So, you you remember it. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. For sure. For sure. There was a lot of stuff where like both the Arbitum and Salana Foundation were like tweeting a lot trying you could tell there was like a kind of bake off going on and then like there was some article that was like rumors that this is happening. Yeah. >> Yeah. And I had um I think AJ on the show at that time I'm pretty sure to be like so like how did Arbitrum you know get this deal? And you know the way he explained it and he he didn't like confirm that yeah they were about to go with Salana but he basically said well you know when you're your own L2 then it

flips the economics like you're not paying you're making money and you know so that seems like a pretty obvious thing if it was the case that they were considering starting on Salana. So, it's just so interesting that we're having this conversation because it's kind of like, oh well, what if things had actually gone the other way then like Salana might be in a really good place and you know, who knows? So, it's just an interesting counterfactual to ponder. >> I feel like uh I I mean it's it's always I feel like people who were early, even if they missed execution details or were too early, like they always feel like they're the most bitter where they're like, I was here first. I I should therefore deserve credit. And you see so many waves like that in crypto of like

you know you the biggest dex was not the first the biggest prediction market was not the first prediction market but and then those founders end up being the ones that are salty and so this kind of rhymes a little bit like that like I I actually think um like the the biggest bungling I think was was negotiating like the XStocks relationship with Salana where likeation was greatly incentivizing Xbox liquidity and activity on on Salana and then they let it get purchased by Kraken and so it feels like you either you invest and you partner or you have some sort of aligned incentives or you you don't and here it was like okay you you pump a bunch of money in this ecosystem and then you there's not really like you know loyalty to to the chain per se but I it's I think it's it's tough for foundations

where doing it in house ends up being kind of subpar but doing it with a third party you know it's also hard to sort of get them actually really aligned with with your own goals so I I don't know it feels a little cute to say oh well Salana had these things early and they should have been able to combine them when there like so many other I think uh yeah complic applicating factors. >> Well, I think it's important not to grave dance too early because Salana still has is still the number one chain by DEX volume by a pretty wide margin. If you look at 30-day 62 billion, Robin Hood chain is at 17 and Ethereum's at 33 BSC then base then Robin Hood today.

>> I mean even the FOMO volumes are also very comparable like across both chains. I mean even as of like a week ago and so yeah I I anyway. Yeah, Robin Hood chain today is 1.5 billion. Salana is 2.5 billion and then behind them is Ethereum at 1.3 billion. So Robin Hood chain is number two today by 24-hour DEX volume. Um Julie, what's your take on Salana versus Robin Hood? >> I I mean I brought up the FOMO thing because I think that's just fundamentally true. I think like the wallet and app level is like making it very much people not locked into an ecosystem. I think that's just like a trend that will continue. I think people are comfortable with a lot of types of

bridging especially for small volume transactions as like running in the background and it's sort of like I'm not sure it one will like obviously Robin has this huge distribution but like if you think about the chain like most of its distribution is coming not from Robin Hood proper right like and so that sort of already says like these people who are aggregating might actually be a much better player in the long run. So, I don't know if you can really pick a winner or loser. It actually just really depends on like the applications that are able to create the most, you know, I would have said value, but h will get mad at me, so I'll say

entertainment. [laughter] Well, right now I think actually if you look at trading volume, it's about half and half FOMO and then GMGN that's driving a lot of the users to uh >> sorry I mean but it's not Robin Hood itself driving >> right. Exactly. Exactly. >> That's what Yeah. >> And uh so yeah by volume it's about half GMGN about half FOMO by users it's vast majority FOMO which means that the people in GMGN are more these power traders. They're they're you know running bots or whatever and they're they're trading in in bigger size. Uh and these are probably more sharks than they are uh winnows who are you know the people on FOMO who are more likely losing money as opposed to people who are kind of more professionalized traders. That said, you know the interesting thing Robin Hood right now

number two by DEX volume by TVL they're still tiny. TVL of Robin Hood is 730 million which puts them at number 11 by chain but they're number two by volume for 24-hour DEX volume which tells you small amount of assets. Right now, Salana has 5.7 billion in TVL. Base has 5.4 billion TVL. Ethereum of course lion share with 48 billion TVL. So, it's still early and I think it's you one should be cautious not to index too much especially when I still more or less think what I thought before which is that I don't know that there's a lot of new users who are being onboarded into here and I I feel like I'm not hearing about this from anywhere outside the crypto bubble. It feels like this is just where the crypto kind of center of

gravity is or where the heat map of stuff happening in crypto is. You know, I saw this big long Chinese post about, you know, RWA stock memes. >> So, actually, one one thing I will point out was Tom and I were were in Asia with this thing last week, right? Almost everyone there was like we need a FOMO for Asia because like Asian users don't use FOMO and there were like a million people who are like working on projects like social trading Asia Asia localized remember you made fun of me for saying Asianized but like localiz localized uh to lo localized to to to meet like social mores you know like I guess you

have to write the Justin Sun actress memo as a social trading thing, but uh we never covered that on the show [laughter] actually, but whatever. But but yeah, like my point is like the entertainment value is different, right? Like I I do think there was a higher expectation of wanting to make money in Asia, which was like very clear from a lot of the pitches we were seeing of like people were not like I want to watch the stream and like throw money away, right? Like I'm paying the streamer basically. People were definitely like I want to make money. So there's an interesting divide I actually think between the Asian >> It's funny you say that because like Asia also does have much more of a streamer kind of tribute culture than the US does historically, right? Like

the the I mean Tom, you must know this better than I do of like all of these streaming apps where people like just tip their streamers all day long and like they kind of watch them eat and buy stuff from them and all this other stuff. >> It's true. Well, I was say I think the GMGN team is also Chinese, but I don't really have the kind of Yeah, I think they really have like the kind of social features that Tan's talking about. >> It's mostly Chinese. >> I don't know. I would assume it's mostly in Asia just but but I agree. Like it's not it it's more, you know, Axiom like and it doesn't have the kind of, you know, sort of entertainment value that uh is talking about. But yeah, I I don't know why it hasn't really taken off. I guess they're too busy trading Chinese

IPOs and Korean stocks. >> Okay. that they're actually making money. Uh >> well, I I explain >> Yeah, I think there's kind of some some But the thing is like all the people pitching these companies were like, >> "Oh, like you know, once we localize it, we'll make it more fun." Like that was kind of half their pitch was like uh like FOMO is too American. Like our users would never really want find this entertaining and whatever. >> It's too American. What's American about FOMO?

>> I guess it's like Twitter ccentric, right? Isn't your social social profile like connected to your Twitter? So, it's like kind of it's not like I don't know. I I don't I don't really know cuz like I don't use these things. I But I I getting pitches you everyone tells you like what their differentiator is, right? And like this differentiator was like you know like yeah these Americans they like they make these apps that are just not wouldn't be fun here or I that's kind of the pitch you get. So did I go validate those claims? No, I didn't use any of the Chinese apps to validate I I do share that perception that a lot of the Chinese crypto traders I know it doesn't feel like they're in it for the lols. It feels like they're like, I need to make money and I better be dumping on

someone, you know? It's like I need to almost be able to like isolate and localize the harm I'm causing to be confident that I'm going to make money here. And I feel like in America, people are just more like, "Oh, no. We're all just going to get rich together because >> Yeah. Yeah. swag me aspect doesn't it seemed like it's not a thing. >> Yeah. Yeah. Like in China like I feel like they're like okay tell me who's losing money. >> Okay. Got it. Okay. Yeah. I could do that. That sounds like it'll work. Whereas in America it's like well none of us are going to lose money. We're all just going to beat the hedge funds and the hedge funds are going to lose money. You know >> the Chinese will lose money. I mean I think again to make a cultural comment I

do think it has to do with the fact that Americans are born with financial privilege and in China they were poor much more recently and also >> you know your kids in China you were you were not poor recently you've been watching standard of living just up only. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. But unemployment's youth unemployment is like 17%. >> That's true. That's true. That's true. Yeah. Yeah, I guess if you're if you're young probably you're you're maybe a little more sophisticated now. >> Yeah. >> I mean I think actually someone someone at this conference gave me this long story about why like I didn't ask. He just decided to go in this 20 minute die tribe while we're stuck in a bus. So I had no choice but to hear the entire D tribe of like his explanation for why Chinese people love crypto so much. And

he was like it's the one child policy. You know, it it like made too many men and not enough women and this excess of men have to gamble to like have a chance of having a wife and like this this imbalance is what creates this perpetual demand. >> Wow. >> I'm probably from the the sort of hyper gamble Gen Z thesis in America. >> Yeah. But it sounded like the money had to be made because it's like otherwise you won't own a house so you won't have you won't get be able to get married underass.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There there was definitely like a more like you need to own material objects. Not like >> I >> I lost 500 bucks, but my favorite streamer made me laugh. You know what I mean? Like that. >> But like then but isn't Korea like the most into crypto out of all the Asian countries? And if so, like they don't have that reason. So like what what is the reason? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So again again this is just this one guy writing. >> One child policy is done by the way. I don't know if there was a long time ago. But I look I just I just thought that was like a funny thing to hear because he was like you Americans don't understand anything about crypto, right?

You don't know why we like I was like I was like whoa man like I didn't ask anything. >> Korean young people in Korea do have very similar problems to young people in China. You know low fertility. They they also don't >> they have the I don't think it's like mostly men or I I don't think they like >> I don't think it's mostly men. Yeah. I don't think that's a thing. But it is certainly a thing that like >> there's very low fertility which means that most people are not get, you know, the dating pool is very difficult and also the economic prospects for new grads are pretty bad. >> The causality flipped. It's people are too busy gambling. They're they're, you know, they don't have time to have sex and that's uh Yeah, there you go. I did see what was it? They they uh the

fertility was up for like the first time in 20 years this year and people are like in Korea like in Korea cuz like SKH Highix and Samsung are ripping and so now everyone's rich and Yeah. >> Okay. I see. They're having um stock um stock bubble babies. Um okay. All right. Final story. Just going to rip through this before we uh wrap for today. So hyperlid we announced pre or it was announced previously that the CFTC was looking to bring hyperlquid on shore in some kind of regulated fashion. There was a story by Bloomberg that Hyperlid Labs apparently is in advanced talks with the with the parent company of Kraken. Uh story came out from Bloomberg that Hyperlquid Labs apparently is in

talks with Kraken uh their parent company Payword to potentially do some kind of JV that would allow them to use Bitnomial's uh license in and and clearing house in order to come on shore and have some kind of product on uh available to users. Now this would be KYCed. There would be some kind of liquidity bridging from their main book. It's unclear exactly how this would work and you know both parties both pay and hyperlquid uh did not comment on the particular speculation but of course uh on the announcement that or on the on the news that hyperlquid and pay were talking uh you saw both CME price go down on the stock market as well as Hyperlquid's token go up. So any

thoughts on what the likely impact would be if we were to see a onshore version of Hyperlid? I think it's kind of the comments Tom made last week, right, of it's going to be more like the lighter instance on Robin Hood or like Poly Market US versus like true unified liquidity. And like that's I think that's just inevitable because like one has just no requirements and the other one obviously will have different requirements. Collateral management probably is going to be regulated completely differently, right? for instance for regulated USND versus DEX the way kind of risk limits and stuff are set and and liquidations ADL etc. I mean I think it makes sense for expanding the brand. I'm not sure it

will be the same product but seems fine like like in the poly market the poly market case right poly market US like as much as everyone seems to give them a lot of [ __ ] I mean the thing has grown right like it it the world cup was done at the great a great time and like yes they're they have less volume in the culture now but I mean the both they they've been able to manage this dual product thing re it's both have grown so it's just that it's a very different experience in a lot of ways and I don't see how that won't be true here in this case >> yeah so something that I need to understand is so like all the HIP3 markets there'll be like ones that just require KYC, but they'll still it'll still be like HIPP3 or like what what

does that look like? >> But but the problem is in the US there's lots of clearing requirements which means that you have to have centralized clearing. You you can't have ADL effectively, right? Like like there there's there's like maybe they'll make it they would have to make a lot of jumps to allow like the the liquidation mechanisms ADL like collateral requirement stuff to be done the way you do in DeFi. I'm not saying it can't happen, but it's like many changes all at once versus like the one change of like, hey, you're you're kind of this you just follow the normal US stuff, but you get to use your brand. And like the HIP 3 exchange will be different than all the other hipster 3 exchanges because it does KYC, but it also has different liquidation mechanisms. It has centralized clearing. There's prime broker stuff built in. Like all the

market monitoring s stuff has to be there, which goes beyond just like pure just like KYC. like there's a lot of other stuff that goes into market surveillance. So I I just sort of imagine it's going to end up not looking like it's it might be a HIP 3 instance but it's going to have a totally different feel to advanced trader and to the average user maybe it doesn't matter right like smalls size trader retail trader whatever but I think for institutional traders it's going to be quite a different experience is my guess I don't see how that doesn't happen >> yeah agreed I mean this is you know very similar to what we were talking about you know last week in terms of hyperl coming on shore I think the question

with all these is just like, hey, can you actually create real synergies where you can get the offshore version, the onore version greater than than the sum of its parts? Um, I almost kind of think of it like if Binance US were extremely successful, would that like relate back to BNB? I don't know. I mean, it's kind of a weird Yeah, me is not the right analogy, but yeah, I I think that that that's that's kind of the question, but I also don't know how much the brand is going to going to transfer, but I don't know. It's it feels like um everyone just gearing up to go after this market. >> Have any of the Asian exchanges US versions been particularly successful successful? I don't think the answer >> Crypto.com supposedly but like >> that that's my point is is like I I

think like it and it hasn't been proven and maybe they'll be the first ones to do it that like the brand transfer but the UX and experience being so much different. >> It's not even Asian. It's even like, you know, if you're a member FTXUS, OKX obviously tried one, hu tried one, Binance US, >> OKX still has one, right? They're really investing in that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But like it's kind of always been a lagard. Like all these international foreign exchanges trying to land in the US, it's just a graveyard. >> I But I also think a lot of it is just the regulation makes the UX different.

It doesn't like have the same feel for a lot of these exchanges. So >> you kind of have to rebuild a lot of stuff from the ground up. >> So I'm not That's what I'm saying. Like I'm not sure it's there's no way it's going to be like bjective to the DEX thing. Like I >> white labeling Kraken doesn't get them over the line quickly. >> Well, get gets you over the line under the regulated function. So you're going to have centralized clearing, right? Bitnomial has so it's like it's then you're you don't look like a normal deck. Like it it the centralized clearing aspect changes a lot. The clearing stuff is the part that's you know all the clearing ISDA rules. If you're going down that route that's just not the same, right? like it it's not going to look the same. So I have a

question for you guys because I get I I so I understand like why the US has to do this or like why it is doing it but like essentially I what I keep coming back to is that eventually once you know crypto becomes a much bigger thing and like all of this stuff kind of you know comes on shore and whatever what we're going to end up with is like the US's you know crypto markets and then like the rest of the world is on something else. It's sort of like the tethered Binance whatever. And I'm like that to me feels like China's internet versus like the internet. And I'm just like longterm is it good for the US? And I'm like worried. I kind of am like I don't

know how that is good for the US. But I'm curious to hear what you guys think. >> I understand they're doing it now because we have the biggest markets, the most important market, like whatever. So they're trying to protect, you know, but kind of like I don't know. I don't like this idea long term. Like I feel like there should be a process where, you know, 10 years they revisit and see if it like makes sense to just wall off the US markets cuz Yeah. Anyway, >> I think it's like really hard to imagine those systems co like coexisting in a like collateral identical way like the way collateral is treated and the way like the rights of like I can sue my

clearing agent when they blow up when they make a mistake and I can't onchain I can't sue someone for getting ADL like that I don't think that's that's like a legal system difference like I don't don't know how you get around that it's not I think the goal best goal you can have is like have them be harmonized and then like have some sort of a way for you to like move assets between them more efficiently and then maybe you can use your portfolio for margin or something else but I don't think you're going to get this like onetoone system and this is true with a lot of stock markets in the world right like the difference between like how URX operates and JPX operates and the US like each country has a lot of idiosyncrasies and

like ADRs don't trade the same way in different countries like when you have an ADR of the same stock. So it's like I I think this is a government legal thing that it's not clear to me that like internet one that's like everyone uses the same standard will win because like I just think local governments have a lot of incentive to really disincentivize that because they do want control over a lot of asset capital flight stuff. >> Yeah, I agree. I mean part of it also is obviously the US has the longest arm of the law and you know other countries do you know IP ban you know some of these or you know request IP bans for some of these other sort of onchain products and you know sometimes they get get implemented but you know the point being

that more broadly if you want to like be in like Latvia and go access hyperlquid you can do that there's not like a whole lot that you know the government's going to kind of stop you from doing versus like explicitly being on shore and marketing to their citizens that's a whole other kind of different product really the part of the answer is the US just has this very attractive large singular market and that's why it remains this sort of hoop that so many teams are willing to jump jump through but functionally it's not like oh there's there's something you know very very specific or special it's just you know this is this is the the one thing people are willing to do oh >> I mean what I would say is that most countries have both formal markets and informal markets right the US is kind of

unique in that historically at least within the last 50 years we haven't really had that is that the markets have been almost all formal with respect to like you know stocks and trading and so on and uh you know in most countries like I mean you know take like China for example China formally bans almost all non-Chinese social media informally obviously there are Chinese people on Instagram and on Twitter and all these other places they use VPNs they can't get around the law and the reality is that it's illegal in name but it's like not really illegal in the sense that no one's going to do anything about it no one's going to throw you in jail nobody's going to find you and like break down your door in the same way there are a lot of these kind pecadillos that you can do where like, oh, you

know, I used an unlicensed image or I played some music I didn't have the rights to in my stream or like whatever. And if you're just like some little person, nobody cares. No one's going to do anything about it. But if you are a company or you are, you know, some kind of big deal, then like yeah, there going to be consequences for you breaking these rules. So I think where we're going is that like crypto is going to bring these informal markets everywhere. And that means also to the US, you know, and like the internet kind of has done that to some degree, but like that is just going to happen to everything everywhere. And we're gonna just have we're just going to live with that. So if you're a regulated entity, you're not going to be trading on Hyperlid Global.

Um you're only going to trade on the domestic one if if that. But if you're a retail user, you probably will. You'll figure out how to get on Hyperlquid Global. And if it's not Hyperlquid, there will be a next thing and there'll be a thing after that and a thing after that. And that's kind of what crypto does by its nature. >> Yeah. Yeah. So maybe Yeah. The way that I was imagining it wasn't really how it's going to pan out cuz in a way probably what will happen is that every single country will do what the US is doing and then the hyperlquids of the world will sort of be like Napster or something.

But yeah. Okay. >> That's what I [clears throat] suspect more than that. Yeah. Yeah. That's kind of how this Yeah. This >> is >> that's kind of how this stuff has evolved. Like unless you suddenly get like the largest companies IPOing on chain directly and like completely avoiding the regulated exchanges and then suddenly everyone's like, "Oh, we need to go like that's the dynamic that would switch things." But it's not clear. I don't know. >> Yeah. It's it's kind of unfortunate because it does feel like there is something appealing about the idea of crypto being like the internet.

>> [laughter] >> where it's it feels so borderless. But >> the crypto part is borderless. The liquidity part is not. Right. Capital flight is a very real thing that that countries spend a lot of time trying to mitigate. >> Yeah, that's right. >> Okay. Well, we are up on time, so we got to wrap things there, but we will be back next week with more crypto craziness. For now, thanks everybody. >> Bye. >> [music]