Public–Private Collaboration in Crypto: VASPs’ Role | Regulation Day Devconnect Edition

Transcript

Good morning everyone. For today's panel, we got a very interesting topic which is regulation. Thankfully, we're in regulation day. Therefore, this must be a topic of your interest. And the way that we would like to articulate this panel is starting with different questions for the different amazing speakers that we have and for them to be open to reply to each other so it becomes as well a conversation with everyone. And let's start with the first one which is the following. We're talking about regulation and blockchain and crypto. And when we're talking about regulation, we're most likely as well talking about the importance of advocacy as well as public private articulation and how it works in our business. So I would like to ask like to start with you Connor and

know let's start with what is advocacy and public private articulation and the importance and the role that it has in an industry. >> Yeah, thanks so much. Um, and so my background prior to joining the Ethereum Foundation was uh co-founding the blockchain association in the United States and Canadian Web3 Council in Canada. So those are industry associations in the space and then also a think tank in DC that lobbies in support of legislation that incentivizes decentralization. And so I've kind of over the last eight years of working in this space full-time in advocacy, seen the es and flows of what it means to be advocating. primarily my focus has been the United States and Canada and a little bit in the EU. And so I look forward to hearing more about the Latin

American experience. But what I've seen and what is critically important now is that most of the organizations that are here are not represented in any way in DC. Um the organizations that are represented in DC are the organizations that have had to work with policy makers and regulators for many years and they've established strong policy teams that have uh a lot of reps in speaking with the secured exchange commission and policy makers and they understand uh how to get around the hill. But those organizations like those maybe in the Ethereum community more broadly, those projects, those applications, those builders that are building the products on chain, not just the centralized exchanges, um, but those folks who are

building privacy preserving technologies, those who are running validators, those who are building layer 2s, they have not been in DC. So, their voice is not being heard. A lot of them don't have anyone on the policy side. They have general counsel who maybe have no policy experience whatsoever. So they've not contributed resources to these endeavors and they have not you know used the muscle necessary to understand how everything is going to work in future. I can tell you about the American experience. We are currently drafting market structure legislation and legislation passed through the house the clarity act very recently and now negotiations are ongoing in the senate and if that piece of legislation passes it will set the course of this industry in the United States for an indefinite basis. um if it doesn't pass then it's

open season and whatever securities exchange commission is in power is going to have a lot of leverage or or commodities futures trading commission is going to have a lot of leverage over the industry. So now is the moment to be in the room and I'm afraid we're already much too late to be participating in that discussion and there's a lot of great people who are up there helping out with market structure legislation. There are many many voices. There's been a lot of money spent in DC recently on the election cycle on advocacy for crypto. But if folks like those in this room today and their companies don't participate, don't attend, don't um you know provide resources to industry associations or advocacy organizations that are speaking on their behalf in the United States but also globally, right?

This is not by any means simply an American situation, then we will be we will be left with the rules that have been created by you know other actors. >> Sure. Um thank you for uh for having uh me here today. It's a real pleasure and uh I have to say traveling between different conferences uh here at M it feels very different feels real like uh comparing to some of the places uh in Europe when we talk about crypto it's it's something that something that's cool something that you invest money you make money um something that like you buy a new car and you show

to your friends here it's you have a car to drive to work you take your kids to school have it on weekends, have it for emergency. Here it's much more real. In Europe, it's a little bit more plastic, I would say, in some places. Here it's real and and and for me working in in crypto, being here is makes it much much more meaningful for working in crypto and and doing and delivering things for uh for people in LA. So really glad to be here and thank you. what I see in terms of regulation uh globally that uh crypto and regulators are in arms race competing and and and you know who's going to win it's going to be crypto for a very simple reason crypto is more unified community it has

uh infinite resources and it has uh the best talent and you know just taking a simple example if I don't know if if you're a student You're finishing Buenosaris University and you have an opportunity to go and work either for the government or for one of the great Latin exchanges, Bitso, right? Great company. And I'm pretty sure 90% of the students would would go work for the crypto exchange because it's double the salary, uh more opportunities, flexible working environment, and and then it's not for us to decide what the future is. It's what the most talented people will do and they will go to crypto and they'll decide the future. But the problem is

that um we've been here before back in 2008 2007 when the most talented people went to work for investment banks and created the products that no one really could understand let alone supervise and control. Uh bankers didn't lose they won. uh regulators also they didn't lose their ordinary people lost most in the global financial crisis. So in order to avoid that regardless of how big the crypto companies are, how influential they are, how much talent we have, we have to work with the governments to avoid of what was happening back almost 20 years ago to ensure that the market is sustainable to ensure that we're

compliant to ensure that uh we actually serve the purpose or not just make money and I believe that uh this is uh what's coming next is the cooperation between the crypto companies and the regulators which makes it much much more meaningful and especially here in LATAM. >> No, just just want to add one thing that uh different to what you said in the US. We have been seeing what Coinbase did uh um in stand with crypto different efforts. So the reality here is very different. Lobby is not regulated. We cannot fund a pack. uh we cannot like like support candidates that are going to run uh on a for crypto position. But I have to recognize one thing in a

country where we use or we are used uh to to to learn about new regulation by reading the newspaper that taken that always take like the private sector by by by surprise. The regulators has been working good on the beginning here because they summon the private sector. before we worked together on a public private table to try to discuss they were eager to learn what was happening at the crypto industry before regulating um and then the decisions h has been taken by them because it's that's their job but at least we have some prior job and that job but and that effort didn't change between the change of our presidency so it was an effort that was sustained between two different

governments that being said once the regulator has been was once regulations have been issued, it's been very difficult like to try to access them to try to to to have some kind of formal relationship with with them because um uh it's a country where like the access you have to politicians is informal where you have to work your way through like go in different channels where it's very difficult to try to go and discuss the aftermath of the Libra case here has been or or has put crypto in a very difficult position because uh no regulator want to discuss seriously without political implication what's what's happening here. So uh it's kind of a like two-sided situation in which at the beginning it was like a very good

signal that the regulator want to work with us but then like working in a regulated industry also requires for the regulator to hear what the private sector has to say and to act or or at least to provide feedback even if they agree or don't h but I think the private sector remains relevant here and has to have their voice in terms of of >> can I just uh jump in uh very quickly um a little piece of advice and and not for me of course to to uh to consult you but uh I was a regulator and a politician in in my previous life. I'm sorry and I know that uh of course of course I've done the two most hated jobs in my life in generally professions. I was an investment banker and a politician back

home. >> So I've done my volatility uh training. Um but as a politician when you sit there and and the business comes to you and they say well we want this and that and change you have to vote one way or the other way you don't tend to listen. What you do listen to is when you open up the newspaper and you see that there's a crowd in defcon who says that you know crypto is the future. We need crypto payments. We need crypto transfers. We need stable coins happening here daily accessible and uh transferable from one technology to another acceptable globally. That's when the politician starts thinking and that what drives them in proper democracies

and I believe it's what what what you have here. It's a great country and that makes a change. So these events have much much more power than what when the business or the lobbying group comes into the meeting with the politicians and ask them to change the law. Yeah. My my take on that is that we should take the policians out of the conversation because of the volatility of the newspaper. You know if each day you will have a different stance that's a problem. You know as a founder you need to build you need to engage with institutions you need to talk with the technicians in each one of the regulators. Uh central bank here uh used to have uh these innovator innovation

roundts which was builders talking with technicians about what should happen in order for the industry to thrive. So my view is that builders should be building and talking with the guys that will be applying those innovations and not in the political uh sphere because of the volatility because usually you change every four years also and these are multicycle processes. Usually in an institution like a central bank or the CMBB, you have people with a career in the next 20, 30 years, they're going to be there working day and night

on how this will hopefully thrive, you know, and and and that's why I tend to be more sketchy about engaging with politicians. Um because in general it's more on how they use you to position themsel actually helping you achieve what they want what you want to to do you know uh and it's not nothing personal I think it's part of how politics in general works you know um and as a founder and I'm thinking about not Coinbase which is huge and have infinite resources but two guys in a gar in a garage how do they engage you know with these It's impossible. They don't take they don't have time. They don't

have I mean if they meet with a politician it means that they are not shipping their product. It means that they are running out of runway. It means they are going to die. Hence you know it's kind of this kind of cycle which end ups poorly for everyone. You know >> you're making my job as a moderator really easy because it became a very fluid conversation which I appreciate. I believe this first part of the panel has a lot of important takes that we can mention as an example. We started talking about the importance of advocacy and public private articulation to as Connor mentioned at the beginning have our industry and our different companies and startups have a voice and to also provide different resources to those policy makers in relationships that

might take years and speaking the same language. So by the moment there are decision makers pressing a button then the future of our industry has our voices and also our resources embedded within them which I believe kind of applies as well with the rest of the feedback given by our speakers in the sense that if you have an open regulator to have those conversations and also being able to represent the interests let's call it a community that you could either see on the newspapers or the builders that maybe lack the skills to speak the same language is that we can start building together and against this idea of competition but potential collabor collaboration in the end we're talking about translating the interests of different parties that I believe also go beyond just public sector and private sector and start helping us see this

ecosystem of national sector for example government regulators on another side that are more than just multicycle and also financial institutions traditional markets universities communities and builders and how to have all of them aligned or at least speaking >> chambers have been done doing a great job fintech chamber here in Argentina has been pushing you know in every direction to make fintech you know as a as a as an industry both crypto and other stuff uh happening and and become more professional I think those things are super important the guys the thing that you have been doing with kimento I think it's awesome also I I very much agree we actually had a meeting as by bit and our CEO Patricio here we had a

meeting with Argentina fintech association and it seems like they they're very professional compared to what I see in many other places around the world. They're very professional, really motivated. They get the small startups and the big startups. Uh they have this tiered membership fees which allows the small companies to enter and the big companies to contribute more. They have the meetups. They have the specified uh um gatherings for um particular topics and engagement with the government as well. So I believe that you've got it here. You've got the the fundamentals uh that the people actually are eager to use crypto. You've got the government who seems to be listening and and we saw here on the stage the representatives coming and and and and discussing opportunities. You've

got the associations, the chambers uniting uh the uh the people and I believe that that in Latin America, you know, it's one of the most exciting places to be because crypto here is meaningful. It's not just about making more money. It's about actually getting along every day. And again, for someone coming from crypto world, for me it's really meaningful to be here. >> I I do I do agree that we need to be better at explaining what why it is important. For example, what had happened with Libya and Argentina has been kind of an atomic bomb for the sector in a way uh because uh usually for example what happens with journalism is that there is some sort of Ponzi scheme popping up and automatically in

the news the image that they use is of Bitcoin which is nonsense and we all know about that but regular people do not know about that difference between one and the other and so being kind really well educated in terms of the details, the importance, the impact. I think it's super important and and I think that's one of the the the things that we need to accomplish. You know, >> I think one of the like following up on what you and you have said is the coordination between the different players in the industry is super relevant. So, for example, we've been seeing that so all of us are like competitors, but we kind of have a healthy competition. The problem is in a

different size. So in Argentina or like different countries on Latin America, the average amount of people that have held or hold crypto is between 15 and 20%. Which means eight out of 10 people still don't have crypto and never have bought crypto. So that creates a big opportunity to go and chase after them and not canalize our own customers. Which means we can dedicate some common effort to try to coordinate some stuff because at the at the very end even when we are working and like selling the same products we want the same for us to happen in the industry and we are going to be stronger if we are going to lobby the government or like talk with regulators if we are if we are going on a coordinated stance that's why like

chamber the like the fintech the fintech chamber is super relevant and at some point I think it will become like harder to coordinate between different companies because well or at least that's what I've seen happening with banks or like with different fintexs but at least I think now crypto has the unique opportunity to be coordinated in major topics uh because it will be easier and more effective to try to pitch some stuff we need uh for the regulatory part >> I think dubtailing on some of those points when we think about the regulation and this is kind of a question for later too or a response about what we want to see in the future.

But when we think about the regulation that we're producing now, what will be critically important is minimizing the crisis which we've seen in this industry over and over. And I were I was advocing in the US during the Terara crisis, during the FTX crisis. And both of those set the industry back by years. And it also put us in a position, you know, there there was an ideal case for crypto where none of that existed. Everything was still rosy. Maybe there was just Bitcoin out there and all of a sudden regulations were made and they minimized these kinds of risks and the public perception of crypto wasn't as negative and it's outsized negative after you know an issue like that and you really have to come back from that and I can

tell you relationship with the Democrats have not it's not come back since that FDX or SBF at FTX was very close with the Democrats and as a result of that they were very much burned after XTF FDX collapsed and that's sort of been the legacy of their relationship with crypto. If that keeps happening over and over and over again, the industry gets shut down, right? That's what ends up happening. I >> I have a question there and this is kind of my my I have a thesis around that which is if you go walking in the street and you talk you ask about FTX or Terra, I would assume that 99% of people either don't know or don't care. It seems like or either the people that care are the

politicians and the people in the industry. Everyone in the middle is like I have other problems, you know. >> Yeah. It really depends on what country you're from, right? Because FTX was huge in the United States and that was a it was a huge front page Wall Street Journal over and over again. Hit it hit. So, a lot of people knew about it. They didn't understand it. They thought FTX was crypto. So, crypto was bad because FTX was bad. And that's as far as they went, which is the problem. I mean, if Texas was a centralized exchange, completely unregulated, lots of internal accounting issues and fraud issues and that was its legacy, but maybe in the same way that Libra was an issue here, but globally it's not very wellnown. I think those domestic issues are really what sets these things back.

>> Yeah. But I but I can relate because like after Libra case, I read everywhere like this Bitcoin scandal which was like you don't know what you're talking about. If I may also add because now we're also talking about how things that happen in the industry end up affecting the vision or the image that regulators or public sector has when it comes to the industry itself. Some kind of a bad loophole that's really hard to penetrate afterwards. But on the other side, I would also like to have your views and experience of when has regulation in different countries that you work with been something fruitful for the industry and when has it been the opposite because not always to regulate is something that is positive to what we're trying to achieve.

>> I guess the interesting example in Europe is Mika. So Mika regulation is markets and crypto assets. It's the goldplate sort of regulatory standard that many countries have been following. Even US have taken within the genius act certain elements uh uh Pakistanian authority uh Middle Eastern authority Hong Kong uh Singapore authorities they all been trying to copy take the good stuff out of the mik and and leave the bad stuff out. So there are some good things and the bad things. The good things it's that Europe has been trying to protect customers, protect consumers and and making sure that the risk that they take are controlled and they understand those risks. But at the same time we also have to acknowledge that uh the risk appetite for people has changed

over the last I don't know 50 years. If we take 50 years ago you had one house one car one one job and and you didn't have much social security therefore you were not likely to take any risks because you didn't know what's going to happen. Now you've got so many financial instruments. You have so much social security elements, safety nets and therefore people take more risk and you cannot assume regulation based on what was 50 years ago. Today people do take much more risk and regulation has to be centered around it and the regulation has to make sure that the individuals are educated in taking the risk not stopping them from taking risk but having an educated position. So Europe is doing that and is at least trying to

do that. In Asia you have significantly less regulation. So customers are less protected. But at the same time we have huge innovation. The the engine of innovation the power of innovation that is happening in Asia is nothing nothing compared to you know what we see in Europe with regulators trying to protect customers. I see the the good sides of of regulation and engagement but but at the same time uh there are the downsides as well. >> Do do you know when airplanes get safer after crashing >> the same happens with the financial industry overall you know >> so after Libra now it's much safer here

in Argentina and I'm sure it's it's safer in the United States too. No, it's not because the regulation didn't change at all and that's fine. Even even though I think we need to improve. So let's go back one year and a half ago. They introduced bus licency here which I think is helping to give more security to the consumer which is great. uh but that didn't allow you know Libra to to to pop up which was basically a memecoin in a way you know or this uh um I don't know what to call it you know um and it's not within the the the orbit of control of the CMB either because it's

pure web 3 you know um so we are in an industry which is really difficult because you are kind of trying to regulate what is happening in the country or within the users in a country with the technology which is global by default also so those things you know it's kind of kind of contradictory in a way you know uh I don't have an answer you know either not >> I I I have a little just very small interruption there it from my personal experience grass is always greener on the other side so you know >> for you being being here in in Latin America so you see the risks you see the challenges you see the previous scandals for me as a European coming here I see

incredible opportunity you have people using on the ground daily crypto I would dream about that I was telling uh my friends back home yesterday on the phone said guys people are living here crypto in in in Argentina it's one of the best places to live you got great food great people sunshine and you've got people using crypto daily you know I it's incredible you know and and all the opportunities now with the global companies and you know you've got finance, you've got by ourselves, you Bitso and every other global companies coming here to build the ecosystem together. So I I'm I'm really bullish on Latin America and and especially Argentina. Of course, in Brazil, you've got some capital controls and taxation of transactions coming. You know, we need to work around that. We need to

comply. But but opportunities are here. >> I agree. >> No, just one one little caveat there. So I think like regulation like particularly the BASP regulation not only in Argentina but also in Brazil which is undergoing and we have some pending deps in Mexico and Colombia which are our other two ma ma major markets have help have helped for banks not closing our bank accounts have helped for having our users fund protected however like that use cases that you mentioned are true but this is a fairy tale that when you work on like on the trenches every day here it's very difficult like to comply with the nonsense of some regulations. So for example, we have a tax situation that is like super discriminatory or like like um unfair compared to banks or to fintex

and that's because we were burdened with this tax when crypto was not regulated and we have been regulated for more than a year now and the tax situation have not changed and that's because there's no politician wanting to tackle crypto issues because of Libra. There's no politicians wanting to tackle tax issues because of like permanent political campaigns and that makes very difficult for us like to be profitable, to be secure, to be transparent all at the same time even when we have like cool use cases, you know. >> So, so maybe kind of a um >> do you know that in Argentina we have a law called a law for incentivizing bank transfers which charge you 1.2% on the transfer of money. So instead of incentivizing the use of electronic

money they are taxing the use of electronic money. I want to set up this clear here and bus license are not exempt of that tax which against brokers would are exempt of that and banks we are being discriminated in a way and not apply in the same manner. So if you if we want and we want to become kind of the best industry in Argentina to thrive, we need to tackle this ASAP because it's hurting the economics of the industry which you know uh as you know we're in a business. We need to make money, you know, and and I think that's that's an important and relevant thing to to tackle.

>> You're not you're not putting me off. I'm still in love with Argentina. I believe there's so many great things here >> that actually aligns. I think that everything that's being said in this conversation is pretty aligned, especially in the opportunities that we get to see in Argentina. But usually when we see opportunities, we also think of them as windows of opportunity that we want to take. So we're able to specify and represent this kind of interesting, the harm that they can do in the industry like you were mentioning Manu and as well the necessity of doing this in this very moment. So we're not too late like you mentioned Connor in the US and this has been a good take on what you guys think that current regulation is actually hurting the industry and what to do about it which is very specific because sometimes it's

hard to have a whole industry or type of companies together when it comes to a specific claim to a regulator and to be able to be so specific which is useful and now we are almost just 10 minutes in the panel miss uh together and I have another question which I am very interesting to see your takes which is if we meet again in this panel in Dev Connect. Let's maybe it would be Dev Connect here in Argentina again or not, but if we're again in regulation day three years from now, what would you like to see have happened with regulation in your industry or when it comes to your your different jobs?

>> Can I take try? Yeah. So, uh for me it's a little bit like know when kids when when you're a kid you're you're dreaming that you're gonna grow up and be someone. you're going to be a Spider-Man, you know, you're going to be a Batman, you know, you're going to do something crazy in your life. And and I believe that now is the time actually to to deliver for the industry. We've been dreaming of new products, new services, but I believe now is the time to go get a costume and start actually delivering, saving people, saving lives, saving, doing something meaningful. And uh uh you know if we compare people get very excited about crypto they say wow this

changing the world now you know changing the capital markets were so huge so important but reality is if you compare to traditional finance which has 7 trillions daily effects transactions plus equity plus bonds. So you've got daily roughly $9 trillion in transactions. crypto at best you've got several hundred billion so it's one to two percent and if we want to make the change actually it's not competing between each other and I'd rather uh work with you and lose than than fight against you and win because we have to go after the traditional finance and it's huge market there and that's the

opportunity and for me they you know a few years back we talked about stable coins this year it's all about tokenization for mean next year and the year after is about execution. There's no time to dream. It's actually about time to go and deliver. >> So we've been delivering since 13 years ago. Uh I think it's more on I I think it's important to understand that money has 100,000 years old and and in the financial industry 500 years old and we just you know scratching like 15 years old of the industry. So I think that that order of magnitude it's important to to take into

account uh at least in Argentina there have been a lot of things to happen. We have been penalized by a lot of the risking of being the bad actor of the financial economic you know we are the the the the most detor of the IMF you know and that's not free in a way uh we should have much more capital flows getting into Argentina to invest into builders and that is not happening because until like a few years back Argentina was bad word because of mostly politicians you know doing a bad bad things in their work. So I think we need to kind of understand that this is not going to go from zero to one in a in a

couple of years. This will take a few decades, I'm sure. The the good thing is that in general when you see curves of of adoption, they tend to go vertical really really fast comparison to to others. So I'm I'm really uh totally align with you in terms of this is coordination. You know, this is a group. We are all convinced that the the kind of the what is the future what should happen and you know embrace that mask and and go and win you know I for the next three years I want to see it mainly three things one I want this 20% or 15 to 20% people holding crypto be more than 50% so I want like people embracing crypto and for ne for this we need like

banks to be on board fintex to be on board regulators to be on board second I want the money to be on chain. So kudos to Manu and other big Argentinian companies like launching Argentinian pesos stable coins. I think like that's the way that our industry should be thinking about. And for the third one, I want for regulators to be caring of just one job, which is protecting the users from cowboys like SBF, like Teraluna, these like companies that promise you like 700% APR. I don't know like from where. But I don't want that process to mean for me that I should ask for permission on every single feature and product I want to launch, which I'm frightening that it's be kind of becoming the case.

>> I don't think that's the good way to regulate. So I think like this next three years should be about this >> because I think so much foundational legislation could come to be in the next few years. I want to see regulation that really distinguishes between different parts of crypto because I think that there are and many of us in this room would agree there's a lot of garbage out there and I hope it disappears because you know the 700% return or any of those sorts of products we want to rise above that. We want to see real products built in crypto because there are only a few examples like stable coins, maybe digital identity of particularly compelling use cases today or specifically non-financial use cases in

particular. And the reason for that in part is because institutional adoption has been very difficult. It's very challenging for builders to build things when they're constantly threatened by a variety of regulators who could be very aggressive towards them. So if we are able to in the next few years set out some of the ground rules that allow for decentralized technology to flourish because that is the true innovation here then I think we're setting ourselves up for the in maybe hopefully three but maybe 10 20 years the products that are truly gamechanging in this space because we don't have too many of them yet and I'm excited about getting them. I understand why they're not currently there, but if we get the rules wrong, then we'll never get them and this industry will really not meet its

potential at all. >> When we're talking about getting the rules right or wrong and the difficulty of creating this setup or the foundations for the next years to come in this industry, do you guys already think of one country on one regulator or one specific piece of regulation that goes like this is a little bit of a north star or this is a good path to continue following? >> Yeah, I think Argentina is doing a great job. I think Argentina, we are leading the way. >> So, we need to make uh Argentina kind of a a an example >> if we solve the tax issue. Uh which I'm I'm confident will happen and we kind of be more honest about the industry of money. I would say not token, not fiat,

the industry of money, the financial industry. and we get a more technical view of what should happen to reach 50% adoption in next three years and hopefully you know 100% in in the next 10. Uh I think we can we can actually accomplish a lot. Argentina has been this powerhouse of uh crypto innovation. Uh I have the I have the pleasure of have accomplished ourself as part of the companies that I lead to on board the first bank globally to the Bitcoin network in in 2018 to do crossber payments uh when stable coins were not

even a thing uh allowing banks to reduce the fees 300%. A few years back, we connect, you know, Argentinian users with Brazilian merchants with seable coins and pigs, allowing a market of 300 million users to on board into the into Brazil and we do the same in Argentina all thanks to crypto. So if we kind of set up you know a good path of building and and have peace of mind you know that things don't won't change every two three years uh we can become a a you know this powerhouse of innovation

>> I [snorts] no I just so I have the fortune of overseeing the regulatory affairs at Betso in South America and by far this country is the most uh like happy to work on this kind of issues like Colombia, Brazil, they were more more difficult. The feedback from regulators is not the same that we have here. So I think I agree with Manu that like that that here is is a good way that they are framing the regulation. I agree. So following up to this panel, there will be like members of Congress here. So please do ask them to deprecate this tax situation. They they're going to have a tax reform discussion in the next months. So I think like what we need is for that to not be a problem

over our heads and we will keep delivering and building products for you guys. I think from my best experience it's uh it's like in every relationship you know we have to work to and and put effort to to make it happen and and be Argentina or or Brazil, Lithuania, United States, Pakistan, Vietnam, Singapore, so many different places. And I've always seen that it's the same thing. If you sit down and and you plow and you you try and work hard, you know, you can make it happen. So um and I believe that you can make it happen here in Argentina, but it's just that it takes the effort of communities, chambers, associations, builders, uh big

companies, small companies, employees actually lobbying and saying that we want to have these best paid jobs flexible with opportunities here in Argentina. I think that gives an opportunity. I this is going to be a really niche call out, but I uh the Danish Financial Authority produced a paper on decentralization. Uh and I loved it because it was so in the weeds and it was such a clear demonstration of how technical the team was there and how much time and um effort they spent on thinking really critically about these issues because so often they can just be dismissed by people who don't want to engage with them. So that kind of activity is the kind of activity we need to see more of.

I'm happy to see that or for the pattern that I've seen is some of the things that we wish to happen in the next year from a regulatory perspective or the objectives themselves need that small regulatory take to unlock the the advancement and the evolution like for example if we're talking about like you said Julian on uh bank having over 50% of people utilizing crypto or blockchain and having banks being enabled to provide services digital asset services that means that we would need a regulation that enables it considering that regulation is regulation deregulation is regulation and no regulation is also regulation. So we can kind of create that environment. And now being only one minute away from the finishing of this panel, if you guys could only in one sentence express what would be your hope at least for your

industry to do for public sector, I think that could also be good. So we think about the two different hats that are being put on. >> Yeah. To make Argentina great again. I think um I want to I I want money to be on chain. I think for the industry is is to to actually execute uh of what was promised and uh you know we have so many products and services globally but we actually need to to deliver here here to the people on the ground and and uh next few years working with the regulators

it's it's about execution it's about delivering things that that that we have promised as an industry because I've been seeing in conferences years and years over and over so many people dreaming about new products, new opportunities, but now it's the time actually to deliver and and and be it a small companies, large companies, regional companies, international companies, we need to deliver u protecting decentralization and privacy in legislation. >> Yeah. >> All right, that is time for us. I want to say thank you so much to Connor, to Nicholas, to Julian as well, to Manu, and everyone for being here and for the next panels to come. Thank you so much.

>> Thank you.