Polygon and HTC team up, ZigZag Exchange layer 3 - The Daily Gwei Refuel #399 - Ethereum Updates

Transcript

hello everyone and welcome to another episode of the delegate refuel work up the latest news in the ethereum ecosystem i'm your host tian sosano and today's the 5th of july 2022 all right everyone let's get into it so i mentioned yesterday that i'll be doing another twitter spaces as part of the merge series i'm doing with ssv network well this week it is going to be with sandeep uh one of the co-founders of a polygon here so this will take place july 8th so this friday at 8 pm australian eastern standard time that is kind of like i guess lunchtime-ish for for europe or maybe just like just before lunchtime and for the us it's quite early but these are recorded as usual so you can catch it if you aren't able to catch it live at a later date there so you can set a reminder i'll

link this in the youtube description below but uh should be a good chat like i've i've been really enjoying these chats that i've had i've done three of them so far um this should be a really really good one on on friday as well all right so rockapool hit a new milestone today they have two hundred thousand eighth staked uh as part of like the um the rocketpool protocol here uh so big thank you to our 1283 nerd operators and our eth holders when one million i think i remember covering this when they reached 100 000 or something uh back i don't know how long ago it was now i don't think it was that long ago but basically uh i kind of like covered this and said you know i i expect this growth to continue i expect this growth to kind of like ramp up with all the

upgrades and changes come you know going into rocketpool i spoke about redstone last week on the refuel and it's just awesome to see this obviously the community is very acutely aware of different lsds having dominance uh having lots of dominance over the network such as lido and as i've said plenty of times one of the ways we combat that is with more competition and i think rocketpool is i mean in terms of kind of like lsd's that i would feel comfortable staking with rocketpool is definitely the at the top of the list there um number one because they're this they're a decentralized staking pool they actually care about decentralizing i might have been i've been kind of like working on it for quite a while now and they take these things very very seriously um but two i would also just feel very comfortable supporting the

effort as well not to say that any of the other ones uh are bad or anything like that i mean lido is is fine i don't think lighter is inherently evil or anything like that uh but also like we should be going with the minority uh liquid kind of like providers as well or pull providers as well we shouldn't just all be piling into something like lighter and obviously lighter um the state going into lighter has slowed down a lot because of the the fact that the st token is not uh but it's basically still i think uh the price against eighth actually i can just check here quickly what it is against eighth i still think it's uh it's at a pretty uh yeah it's a three percent discount 0.97 so it's moved up a bit there but still it's not like what it

was at about 0.99 or or even like one for one on par there so people are still hesitant to get back in but that's rocketpool's opportunity that's the opportunity of so many other kind of like liquid staking providers as well so it's really cool to see that uh and see that rocketpool is still growing here i know it's growing slower than some people would have liked but i've mentioned before why that that kind of like is the case there are some fundamental limits and there are some limits that can be kind of like rearranged i guess and and and may and improved and also awareness is a big thing too i know i know that rockapool recently did a really big campaign with banklust like a marketing campaign which is really awesome to see and i saw that bankless actually spun up 10 mini pools

on of their own as well which is very very cool so you know the marketing's there it's getting better the awareness is getting better uh and obviously the tech upgrades are always coming as i mentioned uh redstone as well uh and yeah i think it's just gonna keep growing i think rocketpool's gonna keep getting bigger and bigger and keep getting better and better so congrats to them on this milestone really really awesome to see all right so we have a uh query here that hill dobby posted a dune analytics query on um on twitter today where he said eip1559 was implemented on ethereum almost a year ago and about 80 percent of trades now use this new dynamic gas fee over the legacy gas fee option and you can check out the query here now the reason i want to talk about this today is because i found it quite interesting

that we've still got 20 of the network that doesn't use uh the kind of i guess like one five five nine style transactions now uh transaction fee this doesn't mean that they don't burn eight every single transaction whether it's a one five five nine style legacy style transaction burns eighth that's just call to the protocol but they don't get the benefits if you're not using a one five five nine style transaction and the benefits are basically better fee estimation more smoothed out kind of like fee payments and a refund you so you're not overpaying for fees now if i had to guess who these 20 are it'd probably be people that are using kind of like old hardware wallets that still uh kind of like use the old um old transaction type i i i think that like if you're on a kind of like an old version of like a

ledger or something like that and you haven't updated it will still use the legacy transaction types and it won't use one five five nine unless you update same with things like trez i don't even know if trez added i think they did add one five five nine support but there was a bit of drama around that but just generally there's that i'm sure there's probably some exchanges some maybe third-tier exchanges that haven't upgraded the infrastructure and some other places out there so 20 i guess could make sense if i took all that into into account and maybe there some people are just using legacy transactions uh by force for one reason or another maybe there's some mev benefit to it i i'm not sure like i don't i don't think so but uh there could be something that i'm missing here maybe maybe you guys know what this 20

represents but i would i would wager that it's definitely got to do with people that just have old uh versions of of kind of like the the apps on their hardware wallet that haven't been upgraded because there's obviously an ethereum app on on the ledger for example and you have to upgrade that when things like this come out and people just probably you know maybe have not upgraded because of that but very cool to see i think you know by the looks of things it may seem like we'll creep up continuously over time maybe higher than 80 percent here but i doubt it's ever going to get to 100 maybe not for a very long time but again it doesn't matter because every transaction whether it's legacy or one 559 style is still burning eighth the only thing that matters for is the end user at the end of the day

because if they're not using the five one five f9 style transaction then as i said they're not getting the benefits that uh that was introduced but we're still burning eighth so i mean for the network it's okay but uh for i guess like the users it's not great but interesting chart here and thanks to hill dobby for sharing it all right so some big news out of polygon today uh polygon has teamed up with htc uh for to basically build a phone or kind of like launch a metaverse phone uh for ethereum and with polygon support as well obviously here now this is obviously not the first kind of like blockchain phone there has been plenty of attempts i guess over the years but most recently solana announced that they were doing a phone now the main difference between what polygon is doing

and what solana is doing is the fact that solano is trying to do the whole thing right they're trying to do the software side but also the hardware side so they're kind of like i think they bought out a company that was trying to do kind of like um hardware or phone hardware and uh they're kind of like taking it on board and trying to do their own and rebranding it as like the salina phone and all that sort of stuff there right whereas polygon is just partnering with an existing company htc who's been around for a long time in the smartphone market and and kind of like uh leveraging their i guess like hardware and leveraging their brand and everything like that in order to get people to kind of like use this thing to onboard into things like ethereum and polygon i personally think

this is the better approach and i'm not just saying that because it's ethereum and not solana i am very critical of anyone trying to do the hardware especially when it comes to kind of like smartphones because of the fact that i know just how hard it can be and okay cool like selena's doing it and it's ambitious and it's more experimentation and it might take off and this and that i get all the reasoning behind it but if we look at just how hard it is like for example there has been a lot of studies shown and i think this is basically based on on a lot of hard facts that to break even on a smartphone as a hardware manufacturer you have to sell 500 000 units now that's just to break even i believe the celanophone has sold like two or three thousand since announcing

and and that's like that that's not even close to the amount that you need right and obviously celina labs has a lot of money they can subsidize things you know maybe they get more people on board by subsidizing it but just generally to me it it just it seems insane that they would go down this path instead of just 100 percent going down a software path and then partnering with one of these kind of like other hardware manufacturers like polygon has done uh but it seems like a a a marketing stunt or a publicity stunt on solana's behalf i guess like it could work to bring more attention in but just generally it the economics just don't make any sense and it not even just the economics but just the hardware game is much harder than the software game a lot of the time because

with software you don't have to worry about things like physical supply chains which are not things that are easy to do guys like like i know in our kind of like bubbles where we're used to just clicking things on amazon and having them shop at our door it may seem like the supply chain is easy but the amount of stuff that has to happen for that that thing to get to your door like same day shipping or next day shipping with amazon is insane and there's a reason why only a few mega companies in the world can do it that efficiently uh and it's just just generally it's just it's it's it involves so many different parties right so supply chain is obviously a huge thing um but just generally the economics as well is is a massive thing here and it doesn't make sense unless you can sell 500 000 units

just to break even then you want to obviously turn a profit and obviously you could use the hardware as a kind of like lost leader which is the term basically given to a lot of these kind of things where you sell things at a loss or you sell the hardware at a lot at a loss or at break even uh price you don't make any profit on it but you make profit on the software this happens a lot in the gaming world where the games consoles will be sold as a lost leader but because people will obviously buy games to play on those consoles it makes up for that so for example a kind of a very clear example of this was the ps2 back in the day the ps2 was the first uh inexpensive dvd player like dvd players used the cost a lot and like thousands of dollars back

then and the ps2 came out and it was very it was much cheaper and it was obviously not cheaper because they had found a way to manufacture them in a cheaper way it was cheaper because they were taking a loss on it because they were gonna make up on the software side because everyone was gonna buy ps2 games and all this sort of stuff and that's exactly what happened and sony did very well with the ps2 i believe the ps2 is one of the best if not the best selling consoles of all time because of that now maybe that's solana's kind of i guess like goal as well but at the same time like there's a difference between selling a few thousand units and needing to sell half a million units just to break even like if they sold maybe tens of thousands even like hundreds of

thousands then i'd be like okay well maybe this thing has a chance of success but i don't think it has any chance of success so when it comes to polygon just kind of like partnering with an existing manufacturer and focusing more on the software side of things and on the development stack and things like that i'm much more bullish on that approach and i think solano is doing obviously doing both so they can probably cut their losses if they want to on the hardware side of things say okay well we tried whatever let's scrap the hardware we'll just stick to the software which definitely is a part that i see them going down depending on how bad it gets in terms of not being able to to break even on the hardware uh but to me it just seems obvious that that's gonna be the case like they shouldn't even gone

in the hardware path but they'll see maybe they prove me wrong i just don't think it's gonna happen from everything that i've read everyone that i've talked to it just doesn't seem like it's going to happen anyway given all that context you know what does kind of like a metaverse or a blockchain phone look like well from my reading it looks like something that treats ethereum it treats polygon it treats kind of like ethereum based layer twos as first class citizens on the phone so it's like you could have a directly embedded wallet into the phone like samsung actually toyed with this a while ago i don't know what happened with it in the end but they had like a vault that you could use so that's what it means maybe you have some pre-installed kind of like apps like uh for example a crypto wall like

uh you might have like third-party wallets on there not just kind of like the htc wallet but you may have like a metamask installed or maybe you have like an urgent installed maybe you have some apps installed on it as well like some standalone apps that htc has developed or something like that so there are various different ways you can go down especially on the software side of things because it's much easier to do than the hardware side of things uh and i'm cautiously optimistic for something like this i'm not going to say that what polygon is doing is going to be a success or it's going to lead anywhere but as i said i think there's much a much better chance of something coming from this if it's just a software thing and not not not kind of like a hardware theme because i mean

think about it like i know solana i know the founders especially anatoly has a background in hardware manufacturing or a background in kind of like chip manufacturing i think he used to work at qualcomm which is obviously a massive smartphone chip manufacturer so obviously he's got close ties there and he's doing it because because of those reasons and others but just generally i don't think it translates very well for like a blockchain company or a crypto company to to to kind of like smartphone things on the hardware side so we'll see what they do there but it's definitely not something that polygon would be should be pursuing at all and they're obviously very well aware of that that's why they haven't pursued that that path so i guess that's my general thoughts on all of that um i think generally like

when it comes to mobile phones or smartphones and their platforms like ios and android and the different flavors of android that come with the manufacturers they're probably going to hit a point where things start getting removed and banned from certain stores for certain reasons so for example on the app store you can imagine a world where the wallets are banned from being on there because they allow people to to basically make purchases in app that go around the 30 feed that apple takes on in-app purchases this has happened in the past for various different apps i mean i'm pretty sure apple took spotify to chord or spotify took a portal court over this so it's a big fight that ends up happening here now with

crypto obviously if you're going to do a unit swap trade for example in your metamask wallet apple's not going to be able to get a fee from that and they may consider that an in-app purchase when it really shouldn't be because in reality it's it's kind of completely separate uh because you're just using the app to kind of i guess um um kind of interact with something it's kind of like using a web browser to interact with an ecommerce store on your phone apple doesn't take a cut from that so it's it's different right but i think apple's logic is that oh well it's an app in the app store we need to take a cut from this blah blah and they may end up banning things so that's where things like this come in handy partnering with these manufacturers making sure that they're kind of like crypto friendly

getting their devices loaded with crypto stuff and making sure users can access this sort of stuff as well so that's what i'm most looking forward to when i'm most bullish on i guess congrats to polygon on landing this i'm going to be looking and kind of like following this as closely as i can to see what happens here uh but i don't think i'll be buying the htc phone here for this i mean i'm an iphone user anyway but i think that their phones are still quite popular people still use them so i'm curious to see what kind of uptick they have here all right so a zigzag exchange uh introduced a kind of major upgrade today called invisible three or like basically their layer three zk roll up for private transactions on stock nets which is an add-on to zigzag exchange now those of

you who have been paying attention or have been listening to me talk about zigzag basically know that zigzag currently exists on the zk sync player 2 and they were talking about going to stock net and i believe arbitrary as well so they've announced today that they're going to be uh deploying a layer 3 zk roll up with with private transactions to stock now now you can read this blog post for a full breakdown of what that means and what a layer 3 is and how that all works and things like that i think they're the second team to to announce an l3 implementation immutable being the first tr so it's really cool to see this i mean i know i gave zig zag a lot of about their token launch but i think that's orthogonal to the tech itself the tech itself is good the product itself

is good i've used it a number of times and i think that they're going you know the fact that they're on the kind of like bleeding edge here going for things and and doing like layer 3 exchange especially with privacy preserving i think is really cool because one thing that i've talked about a lot is that i think that to achieve mass adoption we obviously need scale but we also need privacy there's no point scaling or you know to billions of users if everything is still transparent and there's no privacy because it's just not gonna work like most people are gonna figure that out sooner or later and be like okay well you know this is crazy like i don't want this information publicly available for anyone to see and the funny thing is is that people sometimes come back at me and say well

people don't care about their web two uh kind of like information that they leak everywhere and their and their um information on social media and things like that and it's like okay guys like there's a difference between personal identify uh information like your your name your birthday you know where you went on holiday kind of like what you enjoy what you like and your financial information there's a world of difference between that and like if if the financial information if your financial information or financial transactions was kind of like leaked everywhere you'd be rightly pissed and most people are rightly pissed when that happens so from that perspective i think that when it comes to financial activity on chain it's going to need to be by default private and we can do that at layer 2 and at layer 3.

it's kind of like difficult to do that at layer one for a number of reasons uh the major one being the fact that it's expensive to do at layer one and also layer one is not a user layer so anymore i guess so it doesn't matter i mean it still is a user layer but it's not being built to be a user layer long term so let we can do this all at uh layer two and layer three so you can give this blog post a read for the full details on zigzags new implementation here i'm looking forward to seeing how this plays out and i'm looking forward to just layer threes in general all right so speaking of immutable they had an update today so there is an eth off-ramp now available to any developer building on the immutable x building and immutable x-power platform

developers can enable their users to sell a layer to each and have the proceeds deposited directly to their bank account this is really cool like i think in terms of onboarding and off boarding to these like layer twos we've obviously had a lot of solutions come out over the last few months there's bridging protocols there's uh fiat on ramps there's centralized exchanges all that sorts of stuff happening right but if developers can just directly integrate on their own platforms that they're building on top of immutable x with for this to kind of like happen for their users that's how we continue to i guess like enable these sorts of things and moon pay is what's being used here basically um as kind of like the back end but like giving developers the power to do it themselves is a really really quick way to kind of get people

on board and off board and stuff like that as well because because at the end of the day that's what people want to do people definitely want to go back to fiat especially because of taxes like people often say oh when we you know when we get like crypto mass adoption we won't need to off ball we won't need to go back to fear it's like guys like like as bullish as i am on crypto i don't think many governments around the world are going to be accepting crypto for direct tax payments any time soon there are going to be some here and there but i don't expect the major countries to accept direct crypto parents and i'm not talking about them accepting it and then exchanging it to a fiat currency which i guess is a different ball game but them actually accepting it and holding it so

i don't think we can i i can't imagine something like the us government saying yeah you can pay your taxes in eighth and we'll hold it like no they're not gonna do that like they may they may say that you could pay through a third party and then they'll kind of like get that third party to to exchange that eighth for us dollars but then it's the same thing right and then third party's probably gonna charge you a fee so it gets very messy so allowing people to just directly off ramp from a layer two just like they can from layer one to fiat is a huge value add here and allowing developers to build this directly into their own platforms is obviously a huge value add as well so very very cool to see this from mutable today all right so notawizard.eth has released

a beta version of their new tool called the wallet analyzer you can already use it to check the historical balances transactions and transfers of any ethereum address and there's a quick demo here of this if you want to check it out but also i believe you can check it out at their app page as well this is funny because i was just talking about privacy there uh and kind of like financial privacy guys like this is a a tool that obviously lets you kind of like see what's happening on different ethereum addresses and things like that and kind of like look into the different things here but the funniest thing is that this tool is not anything new there's been these tools for ages and there are tools that do go much much deeper than this there's a there's tools like um chain analysis for example a company

chain analysis and they use different tools and they can basically link every single transaction that you've ever done to everything even if you go through something like tornado cash or try to wash your funds through a centralized exchange they have methods to track that um you know for example when you kind of like some people will a lot of people will deposit funds to a centralized exchange and then they will withdraw them to another wallet and and it washes it through the exchange because when you deposit it to a centralized exchange it goes into one big wallet and then when it withdraws you withdraw it withdraws from that wallet to your new one but say you deposit one eighth into into kind of like binance for example and then you withdraw one eth out of binance into a new address shortly after it well that's

something that they can kind of patent match on right and that's not that's not the only thing they can patent match when you're awake right they can patent match um uh things like your kind of like active hours not just when you're awake but also your active hours things like uh you know did this address interact with this confidence level okay well then this one interacted with this and this and this and they can kind of like find everything so that's what i mean by like we need privacy like these tools are cool don't get me wrong i like things like this and it's a cool little little kind of like project for people to work on but this is not something that should be um kind of like allowed to happen because we don't want everyone to be able to see everyone else's financial

history so i think as i said layer twos layer threes are gonna solve this but it's going to take a little while it's definitely going to take people adopting these sorts of things and generally even at layer 2 and layer 3 i believe privacy is more expensive not too much more expensive but still more expensive i mean you can aztec protocol has their kind of like layer 2 live um and it is more expensive but i think over time we can get that down a lot as we keep scaling but uh generally uh you know massive companies big corporates big institutions and stuff they're never going to use this this kind of technology unless they can uh use it privately at at the end of the day they've been for for simple reasons off they don't want their competition seeing what they're doing they don't

want anyone really seeing what they're doing they don't want people and they don't want people able to kind of like check on chain stuff that they're doing and then trade based on that right if they're a public company so there's a lot of concerns around this but still while we've got these tools while we don't have privacy by default on these layers you can use these tools to kind of check out a bunch of different things if you want to i'll link it in the description you can probably plug in your own address here and see what comes up with it uh and maybe you'll find something that you didn't know was there or you forgot about all right so just the final tweet here from hayden from uniswop so he said insane liquidity in unisop v3 diet usdc pool 500 million dollar trades in either

direction only create a one percent price impact or one percent slippage efficiency on display as well tbl across the two main usd pools is only 1.3 billion dollars cool to see automated vaults starting to take off too this is i this is something that came with with unisof v3s this kind of like efficiency here where you needed much less liquidity because it's kind of like especially for stable coin pools because it's targeted at a very defined range uh than you did with unisof v2 and that's why you can do these massive trades with very little price impact around pairs like stable coins now obviously units are not the only game in town there's curve and there's also kind of like the make a psm which allows trades to be routed through there but it's still it's really cool to see like how fast like fees and in price

impacts collapsed on things like stable coins which at the end of the day the thing you want most liquidity on are stable coins and eth really if you're on ethereum you want each to be very liquid you want stable coins to be very liquid and then you can run everything else through that and as long as those those kind of pairs remain liquid uh you have like a very healthy and functioning defy ecosystem so very very cool to see this uh you can check out the original tweet that hayden is kind of like quote tweeting here but i think that's it for the news and i have a few minutes left here i did want to talk a little bit about the markets and market action in general and or lack of action right i haven't spoken about this for a little while now but i like

speaking about it from time to time so what's happening well what's happening is that like we're just crabbing and what i mean by crabbing is that the price is going sideways right it is so boring some days the price will move like a few dollars right that's how boring it is this is exactly what happened in 2019 guys like literally i feel like i'm in 2019 right now and i know that i kind of like tend to go back a lot and speak a lot about the last bear market but it's funny just how similar these things are and in terms of like who's online who's who's kind of around still it's the same thing there's the same kind of people that you see on twitter that are online that kind of like are sticking around but what i really like is that the delegate discord

channel is still very very active i can't keep up with it that's how i know it's it's very active um and it's really cool to see people sticking around even though there are some people in there who bought eth in the 4000s and they're still sticking around they're like no i'm kind of like this for the long term i really like the technology i want to keep learning and i love that i love that that's going on um but in terms of the markets guys like still no idea where we're going from here the macro environment is still really shitty uh there are new kind of like inflation numbers coming out in just over a week that people are looking at and being like okay well if they come if they inflation's still not under control then the market's going to sell off or if it

comes in lower than expected then maybe we'll rally and then there are things like people saying oh there's a recession or that the fed is going to only raise a little bit and then they're going to have to go then switch on the money to printer basically the trdr of all of that is that there's just a lot of uncertainty still no one really knows what's kind of like going to happen over the next few months so that's why the markets are the way they are in my eyes like i think most sellers are exhausted that doesn't mean that we can't go down more but i think in terms of like the forced sellers they're definitely exhausted all the fallout from 3rs capital and the lending markets they either already sold or they got bailed out right so that i think most of that if not all of that is

gone celsius's big uh btc leverage position uh is padded down and the liquidation price i believe is under 10 000 or something now so it's obviously not close to liquidation at this point and uh also you know as i said like all those four sellers i believe are out so if we do keep going lower it's probably going to be a either a grind lower or it'll probably just be like a shock from something like you know higher inflation numbers than expected or something else going on in the macro environment but generally i feel like this sideways stuff can last a long time and it can be a mine killer because it's not just sideways it's not like the 8th price is just going to stay at like around kind of like some tens of dollars in a range there it can go up a lot and

come back down like i remember in in 2019 eth went from like 100 bucks to 360 dollars then back down to around 100 if i did the equivalent of that now it would go from a thousand dollars to thirty six hundred dollars then back down to a thousand that's the same equivalent percentage move i know it seems like it and it sounds like it's more brutal but it's the exact same percentage move so if that happened guys like think about how many people think that the bull market would be back if we went up to 3 600 right they'd be like oh my god we're so close to the old all-time high um we're gonna we're gonna kind of like uh break out we're gonna go go big and imagine it coming down from that back to a thousand like that would absolutely kill so many people

and i find it funny that that happened in 2019 and then 2020 was the was the the bull market year for eighth and we ended the year we started the year at around 100 and we ended the year at almost a thousand i think or something like that then we went into all-time high in january of 2021. so things could happen fast things can can stay kind of like staying for a while but just generally my i guess advice and this is an investment advice but my general advice remains the same as if you're in it for the technology keep learning make the most of this time this quiet period to upskill to maybe join a team and go work for them don't focus too much on the markets because there's really nothing happening there it's boring and if you haven't sold at this point right like unless you're

forced to sell because of some real life need that you need the money for i mean you're probably not gonna sell at this point right like yeah at this point you're like okay well i'm just strapped in holding on to my eighth i'm gonna just like wait it out sort of thing and that's that's totally up to you to do of course right and i've got no idea where we're going from here i'm still buying eth when i can obviously uh around these prices but you know it could drop 50 from here i don't know like i don't think it will but it could like i have no crystal ball no one does and i don't think anyone expected east to go into the triple digits in the first place and and it did in it and it kind of like it didn't just stab down there it stayed

down there for a little bit and it could go back right we have we're not very far from that i think you know right now as i'm talking prices at 1095. it's not far to get back to triple digits guys so yeah i just wanted to kind of like give some more thoughts around the current market and how not much has changed but i think like a lot has changed in the fact that we can now kind of say things like most of the four sales if not all of them are gone they've sold they're not gonna wait weeks and weeks to sell they've already sold the three hours capital fallout is still happening but i think the brunt of the damage has already been taken it happened much faster than it would in the traditional finance space because just crypto moves much faster here

but we see it we'll see we'll see if there's any more contagion that comes from that but i don't think there's going to be anything major from from there uh and i know a lot of people on twitter like to spread rumors and say oh coinbase is insulting or this is insolvent or this is going bankrupt like don't listen to these people um they are right and saying take your funds off centralized exchanges because i just generally advocate for that too but i think they're very wrong and these rumors are just that they're saying oh this is insolvent this is insane like it's just trying to play on people's fears right because there are other ones that have been insolvent or other ones that have had you know blown themselves up right so so yeah anyway i'm gonna leave it at that for today uh

thank you everyone for listening and watching be sure to subscribe to the channel if you haven't yet give it a thumbs up subscribe to the newsletter join the discord channel and i'll catch you all tomorrow thanks everyone