Plasma TVL Growth, Prediction Market Momentum, and Hypurrr NFTs | Livestream

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A quick shout out to today's sponsor, Katana. We'll hear more from Katana later in today's episode. [Music] Nothing said on Zerox Research is a recommendation to buy or sell securities or tokens. This podcast is forformational purposes only, and any views expressed by anyone on the show are solely our opinions, not financial advice. Pokio, Ryan, and our guests may hold positions in the company's funds or projects discussed. >> Good morning. and welcome back to another episode, another live stream of the ZeroX Research podcast. How you doing today, Bach? Just you and me. It's a little fun, friendly, cozy episode, just the two of us today.

>> I'm doing okay. How are you? >> He's doing good. Uh, I'm good. I touched grass last week. I was out of the out of the Block Works home office, away from the home office. though. Uh am back ready to dive in. Uh things were busy though. A lot I feel like a lot of stuff actually happened last week. A lot of launches, a lot of uh narratives popped off. >> You missed quite a bit. That's that's usually what happens, right? Like you take take some time off and then you feel like you missed everything versus I think if you were like in last week, you would feel like you didn't miss anything. Oh, okay. Okay. Aster went up. Plasma went up. Okay.

>> Yeah. Now, I bet I don't know if you have FOMO, but you might. And I think you wouldn't have had FOMO if you had just stayed like >> you should realist. Do you get what I'm trying to say? Like you should >> He's saying you should stay online always. Actually, he's he's saying don't touch grass. Actually, it's bad for you. >> Did you end up checking your phone a lot? >> Uh no, just kind of uh scrolling through things. I I didn't have uh service for most of the time. We were out in the national forest, national park lands without uh cell access during the days.

So, I was pretty tapped out for most of the week. >> That's nice. >> But it was good. I I feel like the other thing I could say is like you can probably pick just about any week to take a a vacation in crypto and you'll probably miss a bunch of stuff. Um outside of maybe like, >> you know, go back to 2022. There were probably plenty of weeks you could have taken off, but uh there tends to be things always happening. >> Yeah. And I didn't take any time off then. And I feel like I should have >> Yeah. It's kind of the reverse. Like maybe you should have just, you know, ignored things >> then.

>> That's okay though. There's always there's always new opportunities. I think that's kind of how that's how these markets roll. Um speaking of opportunities, a few things we got to get out of the way first. D London uh in two weeks. Baky here will be there. Uh I don't know why you're putting me on the screen for the D London pitch. Uh you're the one that's gonna be there live with the OXR booth. I don't really know how that's going to work, but I know we're going to have a setup there, be chatting with a few of the guests, uh speakers, prominent names, um that will be at the conference. Um so that should be cool.

But otherwise, uh it should just be a good event, like our instit more institutionally focused event. Um, you can still get tickets, get 100 pounds off at checkout with code 0x00. >> Yeah. Um, I think we need to update that code because I think it ran out. But either way, you should check the show notes. Um, because there will be a code for you to get it for free. Um, we just got we got James Kristoff comped tickets today. Did you know that? >> Did he do 15 referrals or we just like him?

>> Oh, we just like him because he comes on the pot a lot. So, if you're relatively interesting and you come on the quad a lot, you'll get free tickets. I don't know what the market value for them is. >> Friend of the show, you know, >> pretty valuable. >> Yeah. I hope P Hulks doesn't hear this because last time he asked if he didn't get >> He's gonna be so upset. He's he's gonna be asking for a free ticket next time. >> Yeah, it's fine. >> That's okay. I don't know if he wants to go to London. >> Um, yeah, busy. Um, we have D London next month. No, no, two weeks. Um, apart from that, we're still doing full-time. Are do you need to do more shills? Cuz I'm going to do the newsletter one.

>> The newsletter. Go for it. >> Um, we're still writing the newsletter every day. Yakob Shondaanda put out um today what we should be looking forward to over the next week. Would recommend you guys check that out. Um, but apart from that, yeah, it's I mean it's good stuff. I love the newsletter. I um I make sure that it's interesting enough. I actually have to read it every day um to check that it's good enough to go out and typically it's good enough to go out. Um so I would highly recommend that you check it out.

>> Yeah, I feel uh today's newsletter from Shondaanda talked a little bit about plasma. I think obviously plasma was one of the big things from last week from last week uh and into this week uh I don't know I think plasma is definitely hot in the narrative right now also like just stable coin related things in general been a pretty strong narrative this year um but I guess give people a little taste of what maybe they're missing but he shared some some highle stuff u plasma TVL kind of just skyrocket rocketing since launch over 5 billion in TVL a v3 uh TVL kind of skyrocketed up because of that um usage

of Yeah, go ahead. >> Yeah, I mean this is like a mass not a masterpiece but this is the result of like very very heavy incentivization. Um there is a lot of very I don't want to say lazy but comfortable capital out in the EVM. Um most of it parked in Ethereum um mainet. So they've they've had to I think I don't know what they're emitting. I think maybe like 600 mil a year. Um it's a lot of money that they're emitting out to move a lot of this capital into um plasma. And I mean, if you have capital laying around, barring smart contract risk, which I think with a should be okay. I don't know, knock on wood. Um, this is like

pretty attractive stuff in my opinion. Um, but like I said, I mean, it's it's quite a bit of incentives. So, I would always keep that in mind. Um, you don't want to be the person burnt because you didn't know that you were getting in like that. this was a part of a liquidity mining program. Even though like I'm generally interested in >> the XPL token, not everybody is. So, I think it's it's a relevant thing to tell people about. >> Yeah. I mean, it's good to be aware. I mean, a lot of these high incentive amounts are being paid out in the native token and um usually there's some like cyclicality to that type of stuff. Um, we haven't seen as much massive like

liquidity mining type activities like this I want to say since really since like 2021 or maybe coming out of that cycle. It's been more like airdrop, you know, receive the airdrop farm specifically for the airdrop. So, this is kind of like a little bit of a double whammy. Launch the token, little bit of airrop, little bit of incentive incentive mining. They're kind of doing everything all at once, but it's pulling the capital over. And I guess maybe the other big chart Shondaanda shared is uh it's definitely been it's been positive. I mean you can see the little uptick recently at least for total supply of tether. Um this has been beneficial for them as well the the growth on plasma. Um so Tether's winning right now. Plasma's winning right now.

Uh it's definitely been positive so far. I don't know. Are you looking at anything in particular on plasma since you're you're over there? You're you're probably farming. Um, I'm just mostly doing whatever I find on that rewards.plasma.to page. I'll um I'll pull it up in a sec. One sec. There we go. >> There we go. It's the opportunities page. Just like whatever here is interesting. I think they'll change this. I don't know when they launched. I think they launched on Thursday. I think they'll probably change this maybe this week. Um, midweek, maybe end of the week. But it's keeping keeping an eye out on this. Um, and if anything is particularly interesting, I'll do it.

Like 12% in fluid is pretty good. Um, USDT zero net lending 7% is pretty good. Um, they had a meme coin called trillions that went up quite a bit. I I might need to pull up the chart. Um, but it did really really well. That was like missed by me to be honest with you. Although it is down now, so I guess it could buy technically. We'll see. Um, but nothing like I mean this is like our another analyst Sean asked about this. He's like what is the plasma thesis? And I think it's it's a little bit difficult to articulate in a market that is very much

now focused on pure revenue. And we talk I talk about this pendulum swing all the time like we go from every nothing matters. let's just do memecoin nihilism to like holy revenues and buybacks are very important if they're not if your team is not doing that it's a scam. Um I think we've kind of forgotten that there's there's some of these are like very early stage growth companies. Um and like plasma revenue is never going to be super duper impressive especially in the early days. I do think that there is um no other coin um apart from USDE that is a pure bet on stable coins. Um and plasma has the additional benefit of also being um tether beta. Um there will

be other chains. I'm not sure if they'll be able to do as well as plasma has done it so far. Um from what I understand the plasma team is quite capable. I'm not sure about the other chains. uh just haven't had the opportunity to look into them. Um I will do. But yeah, does that make sense? Like I feel like that's not the greatest thesis cuz it's like a lot of the time that I spend at Blockwork Research, I'm I'm checking comps and I'm checking if like they're making enough money and if they're making enough money if it it's like if it's relevant at this point, etc., etc.

like are there any interesting catalysts coming up versus plasma was very much like okay this thing is it's valued quite highly at this point. Um but to me something that is tether beta um and the only tether beta on the market is probably remotely interesting. Do you see it as like a longterm is that like a long-term view though or more of like a >> I don't know maybe like medium term. >> Um >> I do think that they could have like interesting like it it really dep I wrote about I wrote a note last week on plasma um day of launch. Um and what I talked about was like they're going to

get a lot of capital inflow. They have a lot of incentives. They're going to get a lot of capital inflow. um and they have a few like they're trying to cover both of the sides, right? Like a lot of the times these um emerging markets, they end up using centralized exchanges as wallets. Um so they're like getting integrated into Binance for like their plasma earn thing. So, they're trying to do it that way, but also on the other hand, they're launching Plasma One um I guess to like offboard people off of the centralized exchanges and onboard them onto their own native app because then you can control the front end. Um and that's not just for emerging markets as well. Like you and I could

technically use that. Um >> yeah, >> so I I think they have some valiant efforts at distribution. Um but like early days got to be very incentive driven and then you just have to see if they're if they're still performing, right? like if in 3 months the liquidity has dried up and incentives have dried up and there's no attempt by the team at making it work um there's not much you can like then you're just like I mean this is the same thing with all of the products like we see a lot of products come out of the gates um doing really really well and then two months in nothing else is happening on the chain so it'll depend I

I think they'll do okay um it's it's going to be kind of a difficult chain to track I wonder if it'll be like Tron where I mean you and I didn't really like you you always kind of hear about Tron but you never like quite understand Tron very well. Um >> like you never know how much and that's like I guess like our edge there is block works data. So, I'm hoping that the data team in integrates plasma and tracks payments and settlement and etc on there and then we can make a more educated bet on whether they're actually getting adoption or if it's um if the incentives have dried out and they've lost everything.

>> Yeah, I I think I agree with that take across the board. It it's the biggest question is how do you convert the short-term incentives, narrative, etc. into like a longer term momentum or just carry that carry some of that through. Um definitely better executed launch than like bar chain for example um where the you know they locked up all the liquidity in advance and then um there was no excitement really post launch um and you saw things die down pretty quickly but um much more positive start to things here for plasma at least. Uh I think the like you said the big question is going to be a couple months down the road like are incentives you know still running? Are they you know is are people getting tired of it? How do they

transition that into uh a continuous you know source of you know new growth what have you? Um because it's kind of hard to beat you know five billion in inflows in like a week. >> Yeah. >> It's going to be hard to like keep up that type of that type of momentum that type of growth. So we'll see where they go with it. >> Yeah. I don't think they can keep it up. I just I think they they really want to look for like not losing it out. Um >> yeah, >> the issue with being the first to do this is that I mean it was the same with Hyperlid, right? Like they they had this gigantic um onboarding program with the airdrop and then they did great things with the perstex and now every other chain like every other perex is implementing the

exact same features. Um, so like you're gonna see a bunch of these plasma competitors come online and they're going to offer the same incentives if they can afford it, which I assume they can because they've probably raised quite a bit. Um, right. And then >> yeah, I'm c I'll be curious to see like what um if these if these chains any of them plasma or the other copycats or just other new chains in this area like if we see more of um push towards like launching your own like sort of like chain affiliated chain integrated products for the revenue fee streams etc. Um to like capture more from the user like they're they're kind of in a way it's funny to like launch a a chain and maybe it's decentralized, maybe it

isn't, whatever. I don't really care about the details there, but um interesting to basically see like centralized venues essentially roll out onchain um kind of like in the reverse from like you know launching a centralized exchange and then rolling out all the products with it. It's like launch onchain and then roll out all the products but you still capture all the fee revenues back to if it's a token or if it's to the chain. It it's just interesting to see that play out. >> Yeah. I mean, if you're a like it makes sense logically from CZ's end, right? Like if you have this you have an existing massive distribution channel um with the sex like Binance is so so big. Um, and he himself is like very large like to the point that if he

tweets something out, we talked about this on the plot, you were here, but like it's really funny cuz you he knows where like where people are drawing support lines on the chart essentially like tweets it out when it's there. Like it's genuinely crazy. or like he tweets it out like when it's at resistance to like send it through resistance and then >> it's gen like >> he he knows how to play the game very very well and he realizes that there's a lot of money that he's missing out on if he's not >> offering some form of a competitor so >> and I will do the same OKX I'm sure will do the same um Coinbase maybe will do the same we'll see but I think they would be missing out if they did because

all of the revenue just flows back to them right? Somehow like maybe a company, but I mean with Aster it's on BMBB. So >> it depends, right? But they probably have, you know, they're probably invested in some of the DeFi platforms. Like the chain is obviously run by them. Um if if people then go through Binance to get there, yeah, I think in some way another it's beneficial for them to see growth in any of those venues. Um so I agree with that. Yeah, it's definitely meaningful um for CZ. Like I feel like we've seen this at certain times where you see that they really like latch on to this idea that he can have a really outsized impact on what's happening in that ecosystem. Like he tweeted about

memes, you know, at the beginning of the year when meme coins were going crazy and uh it pumped all memecoin trading volumes on uh the chain for a couple of weeks and uh now he's doing the same with perplex. I think he can he can kind of do that with any product and any narrative. um and it'll probably be successful to that to that nature. So, uh it's definitely like plus EV for them to do that from uh if it's chain activity, if it's revenues to the products, etc. Um it works out for them. Um before we jump to anything else though, let's give a quick shout out to our sponsors for today's stream.

I just got trolled. For today's stream, uh Katana. This episode sponsored by Katana. Katana is an L2 built for DeFi and is pioneering the ecosystem category of productive TVL, believing that change should be graded on how efficiently assets are put to work in DeFi rather than just total value locked. From now until the end of November, users that bridge the katana can earn boosted yield from CAT incentive campaigns, added vault bridge yield, and other chain revenues. Follow the link in today's show notes to get started. And you'll hear from our other sponsors later in the EP. Um, another topic I wanted to get into, we can maybe talk about B&B, but I think since you covered it recently, like I don't know, I think we kind of hit the high levels there, but I feel like prediction markets have

continued to like compound and it's like not um it's not been a CT native narrative at all. Um although you're starting to see something something I'm noticing and I'm sure you've seen it as well is like there's been like you know some of the prediction markets have been onboarding like CT and probably like other finance uh content creators like influencers um doing deals with them. I saw like one of the popular like Salana memecoin traders got signed with KHI just recently. Um they're definitely like trying to wedge into this market a little bit. Um, but I was surprised to see just pulling up Poly Market recently that like the

culture markets, which were basically dead probably, you know, a year ago when everything was all about the election. Um, culture markets are kind of like every they're they're growing um pretty continuously. Um, and you're seeing silly stuff like Elon Musk's number of tweets in the past week, um, do a couple million in volume, you know, 1 million volume today. Um, this Lord Miles 40-day water fast was was a pretty big one. >> They tried to they tried to mess with that. I don't know if you >> Yeah, I know there uh, our humble farmer Tiki had a whole series on maybe he got scam. I don't know the exact specific details there, but you know, maybe he

was scamming the yes, maybe they were kind of scamming the no. Um, but it is interesting to see that these have continued to grow. Something else I wanted to just pull up real quick just to get on this point is we look at you can see like all markets there's a bit of there's been a bit of cyclicality I think just for some of this stuff like business like week to week cycles week to week cycles and probably like sports business um and politics as well probably chug through some of those things but if we look at pop culture this has been growing like up and to the right over the past couple of months uh which is interesting to see because I Like I mentioned, you know, maybe a year ago or a month ago, it's like you'd look

at some of these markets and it's like, you know, how much is, you know, this new movie going to gross in revenue and it maybe has like 10ki. It's like not really tradable. Um, you've been seeing some growth here at least on like, you know, silly popular. How many tweets is Elon going to make? How many views is a Mr. Beast video going to get? >> Um, and it's very like outside the It feels like a very nonCT product is maybe what I want to say. um like normal people would maybe bet on that. >> Yeah, I um I'm actually that's what I wanted to ask. Do you know normal people betting on this?

Some of my friends I don't I don't know that they're betting I don't know if they're fully betting on some of these things, but I do see them sharing them sometimes. um like topics that we talk about, they'll pull up a prediction market and look at the odds um and have a little conversation like, "Oh, that's like a free 2x on this market because xyz," you know what I mean? Like, "Oh, they would, you know, they would never do this or like that person would definitely do this thing." Uh like, "Oh, that's a free 2x or that's a free whatever." Um but I don't know that those guys are pulling the trigger.

I'm not using it. I don't know. Are you using it? I I I'm not I I I make my financial bets in tokens and >> yeah I I just I don't know I've >> I also come from a kind of a different culture, right? Like we don't really have a lot of like we have sports betting um but we don't do a lot of this kind of betting and maybe it's just something that I'm not very used to. Um I don't know. This stuff is interesting to me, but it's also like doesn't feel like like I like crypto cuz I can make up an investment thesis versus like I mean I guess you can

really do that here as well. I just don't have the bug. I feel like you need to have the bug or you need to like like to gamble or you need to be like oh like I'm going to look up like Bad Bunny trend lines everywhere see like what is distribution is like and see if I should buy it. I'm not in either of those camps so I'm not like interested in it. Um, yeah, I think it there's there's a pretty solid consumer angle here. Like it, you know, they have sports rolled out, which is pretty similar to like the sports betting apps. Um, what I will say is like the culture stuff feels like it aligns pretty meaningfully with that. I mean, you've got other like the election and the politics stuff still does really well. Um, and I guess if you're trading the markets and like, you know, you're

trading big events and rate cuts or rate hikes, things of that nature, like there's there's ways that you can take direct bets on that now. Um, which can be interesting. Um, but I I feel like the cultural stuff probably taps into more of that like sports betting itch where it's like if you you know really love music artists, you know, you can bet on the Spotify artist of the year or whatever because you think you have some edge or maybe just like the team kind of the team mentality aspect of like getting into sports betting. Maybe that applies there as well. Like you love Elon and you freaking quantify all of his posts and you want to bet on them. Um, I can see that kind of playing out in some

different ways. But yeah, I don't know. It definitely there's a dis there's a disconnect. I think I think if you're you're maybe just like a raw token trader, there's something a little bit different about this. It it does feel a bit more like sports betty to me. Um, >> but that's a I think that's a good thing for a different reason. I think it can be, you know, I think these can continue to grow and be pretty profitable um businesses. I mean, who the hell is betting on the se shell's presidential? So random. I don't know. I don't know. I do think that this is a better um approach to saying everything will be financialized.

>> Yeah. >> Compared to memecoins, I think you want to control some exogenous factors such as bundling and sniping and whatnot. And this to me feels a bit more like fair compared to memecoins, which I mean a lot of people used to make this argument that meme coins are fair, right? And like you and I both know that meme coins aren't fair. >> Um >> like they're not and they never have been. Um, so I feel like this could be more of like a better approach for that like hyper financialization, which is still something that I really hope doesn't happen. Um, but it will probably um

>> it's going to happen. >> Yeah, unfortunate. >> Yeah, >> I agree with you there. I think um I feel like end of end of last year when like we were very much in a memecoin craze or even the beginning of this year it's like we I think the market was using them as prediction markets in some cases. Um and obviously with like the bundling and the sniping it kind of diminishes a lot of that. Um you know you can be right and you can bid like you know some you know Bowden token or whatever. Um and it and it might go up or down for whatever other unrelated reason. Um so I think it's it is great to have markets where you know you can

have a view, have conviction, place place a bet and like if you're right about the result then you can be paid for that. That's great. Um I there is a lot of like uh I do see there's a lot of uh angst maybe around poly market like UMa. Everyone always says the poly market um whales uh rigging the votes you know whatever else. Uh I'm sure these will be solved these issues will be solved with time. Not to say like AI solves everything, but um you know some some better checking of of details and other things like that can reduce most of these issues to nothing. Unless the terms of the actual market are are vague and like unspecified to a point where um you're you're going to be having you're

going to have an upset party on one side or the other no matter what. Um but that that more just comes down to setting up good market conditions. >> Yeah. >> Do you do a lot of sports betting? No, I don't. >> Do you know people who do a lot of sports betting? >> Yeah, I do. I have a couple of friends actually, but I don't know if they Here's the thing. I don't know if they do it for fun, but all the sports betting platforms, you know, they usually offer big coupons, vouchers, like when you sign up with them. So, I think the big thing that a bunch of my friends have done is sign up for like 10 of them, get all of their, you know, here's $1,000 free credit if you make a

trade. Um, and then basically hedge across all the platforms so that you're like guaranteed to make a little bit of money in the end. Um I I don't know if any of my friends are actively like chucking their paycheck into uh into sports bets, >> but I do see that pretty commonly. Like I don't know, you see Anom and you see like some of the bigger like CT influencers like chuck out, you know, slips of their bets on a football game or whatever. >> It's a bit more mainstream, I would say. >> Yeah. I feel like my friends maybe a year and a maybe a year ago when we were all doing meme coins were a lot more interested in sports betting. I don't know if it's the age where it's like you know now we're at this age and

they're like you know what maybe I shouldn't be spending my paycheck on with the Indonesian football league or if it's like or if it's just died down a bit. Um, let's see. It's so crazy though. Every year there's like like last year it was very clearly everybody was gambling. Um, like genuinely everybody was gambling. And now this year like Laboo for example and like Pokemon trading cards, they just blew up. Everybody wanted to buy, sell, trade these things. Um, so like every year there's kind of a things which is I guess that's like the GCR

thesis, right? Like gambling will never go away. I just >> yeah with this one >> company I mean companies they're finding new ways like monetizing the experience or the thing I feel like has just we've continued to find new ways to do that. Um and it's it's pretty you get all the people who like jump on the train late um and want to you know hit the 100x or whatever. Uh, I do feel like the sport sports gambling in general though and maybe even prediction markets like we'll get to this point in the future, but it does it feels like there's something there that's um I don't know kind of continuously maybe taps into like something of that consumer mind of like you know I watch the sports and get

convinced maybe it's from a combination of the ads and the promos but like okay I get the 500 free promo and maybe they'll t maybe they'll top me up again if I make a couple losing trades and then you know Maybe you have one or two good hits and then maybe these people like get convinced that they have some kind of edge. Um and and keep keep betting on it. Um I don't know. I think that's the same thing in crypto, right? It's like you you hit a good one, you hit a good one and then you're like uh you know, maybe I have some kind of edge and then you stick around and you like keep going for it. I think like each kind of like little uh market has has that sort of pipeline where you get someone like in deep enough and then

they become like kind of a lifetime consumer of it. >> Yeah. >> Gambling really ruins lives though. Like genuinely though because it it like actually ruin Well, I guess everything can ruin a life. >> Yeah. I mean for people who they that are addicted and like gamble away all their money. Yeah, for sure. >> All right. It's getting a little sad. Should we do paper NFCs? I feel like >> you want to talk about it. >> Um, yeah. I just >> You have the details.

>> Um, yeah, there were two options. You could press yes, I would like my tokens and Hyper NFD or you could say no, I would dislike tokens. And a lot of people pressed the one where well, not a lot. I don't know. Where did you see that 30% stat? Uh, I saw I have to go and look it up, but I saw that there was like a listing of total addresses that had done like done the claim and then the total amount of NFTts that were then created and it was something like 20 30% basically >> did not take the the NFT >> like voluntarily. But I I guess the

assumption then would have been like maybe you'll get fewer tokens. Like maybe that I'm assuming that's probably what people were thinking is like I don't want the NFT, I just want more tokens. Um but they basically missed out seems to be >> the result 70 grand. Um >> sorry buds. >> Sorry guys. Um yeah I don't know. Like I was thinking about it. Do you think that's do you think that's a like if unis swap was doing another airdrop and they were like you can take a NFT or you can do a token which one would you like if they po posed you the same question and they said look you can do tokens and an NFT or you or you can do just tokens which one would you take?

Um, yeah. I guess I mean it probably depends on the framing of the question. I don't know if I have the exact thing, but if if it was quite literally like it read as if it was, you know, you get only tokens or you get tokens and NFTts and you're assuming it's some kind of split, I'd probably take the tokens. >> It makes sense in my mind why people would think that way, but the wording is important. Let me find this. There we go. This is just some random guy, by the way. So, if anybody watching this, don't fall over or anything like do anything with him. I don't know. We just just always kind of wary of putting people on

the screen. Okay. I would like to receive I would like to only receive hype tokens. I would like to receive one hyper NFD and hype tokens. You may choose NFT collection is expected to launch in after blah blah blah. Hm. >> I mean, it doesn't it doesn't sound >> it doesn't sound too bad. I feel like in this case because so here's the wording that I like here in why I would probably take the NFT. I mean, I didn't receive the hype airdrop. So, this is coming from someone outside. Uh, hyper NFTs have no planned utility. The NFT collection is expected to launch after mainet.

Um, I don't know. It gives me some kind of thought that it's kind of just like unrelated to the token. >> Yeah, that's all. But well, I mean, we're also obviously being like, >> but it's also after the fact. So, >> yeah. So, we're like, oh yeah, clearly like not clearly, but it just >> if you're in the moment and you're thinking maybe you get fewer tokens by taking the NFT. Um, it could be could be logical choice. I mean, there was no in that was the only info, right? You had no other info. So it's hard to act perfectly, you know, correct because they didn't provide any clarity on it. So totally understandable.

>> But these are what the floor of these is like what,500,700 hype right now. >> Yeah, it's significant money. And like another thing here is I feel like I don't know like the way that the Hyperlid team have acted previously and clearly have like shown themselves to be. I feel like they're not part of that that cohort of of um protocols or chains that are trying to do something um that are like trying to very clear like obfuscate stuff. I feel like they just say what they mean and now I feel like we know this more and more and more. Like they just say we're not doing something and they won't do it or they'll like we're

doing this and this is like exactly what they're going to get. Um it's probably a good lesson for people. I just that's why I asked the unis swap question, right? Like I mean the unis swap team have built out fantastic stuff like v2, v3, v4. Um but like if they had written it, I would have probably just taken the tokens because I would have been like well they'll probably give me more tokens. That seems like the type of thing that they would do. Um I don't know. I don't know. >> Yeah. >> Anyway, if you didn't do it, you missed out on 70k. But I mean, to be honest, >> if you got the airdrop, it's like, you know, you you're probably only missing out on a little bit. Um if you already got the airdrop, but >> 1,000 I think it's I don't know how much

you got. Maybe you got 10 per and you needed 1,000 points, 10,000 hype. I mean, you're good. You're just like you can be a little upset. You could have made like an extra 15%. >> Yeah, you were already you were already chilling if you got the allocation. Like you were doing a you were doing a great >> kind of sucks because I can imagine waking up and being like, well, I guess I >> Yeah, it's like oh I just missed >> like nearly six figs. That's tough. On the on the unis swap point though, it's funny because they did I don't know if they I don't remember actually if they gave unis socks away for free or if you had to buy those, but they did have that NFT way back in the day and if you held

those they went to like 30k or something. >> I guess I guess it's a similar thing. It's kind of different in that case because it's like it was an NFT as like a voucher to receive actual socks. Um, so kind of different from like an expected NFT drop sometime in the future. You just had to hope that they would appreciate in value, which they did. >> Why didn't you farming any of the new perexes? >> Um, I used I used lighter for a while.

I'm just I think the the thing that I struggle with is I don't use pers at all. farming it is like not so it's not something I'm going to go out of my way to do. But yeah, I'll I'll log into these things, drop, you know, a little bit in there and maybe open a position or two and check it every once in a while. But I don't know. I know that there are people getting in there and like, you know, running like botted strategies to like wash as much volume as possible through these things at this point. So, um it's not super top of mind for me. I don't know. Are you doing that? Are you doing that with like what?

Aster, lighter. What else? >> I have a bank of money on lighter. I mean, there's just so many now. There's Aster Lighter Pacifica. Um, >> it feels to me, and you can tell me if I'm being too pessimistic, but it feels to me we're at the point like when >> launchpads, >> believe, but the example I was actually going to give was going to be it feels to me we're at the point where TIA is $20 and they're saying you should stake it for airdrops, but like that's the top and all the airdrops that come have either already been qualified for and the ones that you're going to get from now either won't come or when they do come, they'll be like 50 bucks.

>> I mean, like the Aster one is going to be horrible. Um, like I can't imagine that's good. Everyone's and their mother's >> And if you were in Aster early, like you're already there was already a token, so it's like you're gonna be up. You're up. >> Yeah. Just um lighter private, they're in private. I don't know if they're still in private beta. That's like a weird one because they've been live but like in private beta for a year, year and a half maybe. I mean, it's like not a bad product. Um, it's just it just kind of feels like they they're like giving points to certain people and not to certain people. Like you'll do volume and it'll be like three points and then

I'm like like why am I I don't know. We'll see. Um I'm hoping there's so Hyperlid they raised um points and then they launched like on the API or on the back end they launched like season 3 now. Um I'm hoping there's an airdrop for that. I don't know if I'll qualify. I don't do that much volume I realize because I just like I just hold I also don't do a lot of perks. Yeah, >> but Hyperlick was great because you can buy spot on it and >> I enjoy that. So, if they give like a lot of points for spot, then I'm probably good to go. But like, I checked my volumes and I mean, they're nothing to write home about. Like, with volume, you want to do leverage and

you want to open close positions. I don't want to do that. Like, I'm ready. >> Yeah. >> I just want to buy the to I mean, I just hold hype on it as well. Like, I don't want to sell it. I just >> sell reby. Seems stupid. >> That's where I'm at. I've always been a I don't know. I feel like I dabbled in per uh few years ago and just like you know it was like too degenerate like unnecessarily losing money on it. So I've become like a spot trader since then and I feel like I feel like you know meme coins have and other things have been a way to like >> basically have leverage on spot without having to actually use leverage. um tokens can go up 10 50 like you don't need to get leverage when your coins can

go up and down you know minus 90% up 20x in a week. Um so I've kind of stuck to that for the most part but so yeah per like farming the per platforms has never been my alley but I'm I'm open to checking them out here and there. I do see um Doomed Capital in the Telegram chat saying >> prediction markets are incredibly bad for sports betting. Sorry, this cuts out of the per the purpose conversation, but saying they're 100x worse than any gambling platform in my country. Not talking about are being hedging, etc., but for regular people who are casually betting um Premier League matches, they'll never use Poly Market. And I can I can see that being true. I'm not

really going to say that they're better for like sports betting, but you can't go on DraftKings and bet on if Mr. Beast is going to have a million views on his video. Um, and we're seeing volume take off, like kind of slowly build on those pop culture markets, which um is mostly what I wanted to highlight there, which seems interesting. It's like a it's like a sports bettingesque style of consumer trading that um was not available previously. Um, this is something that people have been talking about a lot too is like, you know, betting on the next popular influencer, that type of thing. I feel like it's been tried to be expressed with like, you know, we're doing streamer coins now and pump and like I don't know, I've

seen plenty of platforms. Um, I forget there's like an early platform on Mont like Ky that was doing you could trade like views on videos and things of popular streamers. Um, a lot of stuff like that. But this is the I would say like the first real platform you can trade actual real sizable amounts of money on on those types of things which is interesting. Um yeah the sports betting may not be that good. I have seen to his point I've seen a lot of people say like you can hedge and like our bets across like from the sports betting platforms to like a polymarket call sheet because the um because the pricing is just so much different between like the books and where people are betting um on the prediction markets. So that's

interesting. But yeah, for like taking a regular bet maybe it doesn't make sense right now. >> Yeah. Also like the other guys have had 15 years to perfect their platform, right? To make it so that it's easy to use and it like appeals to the sports better. Um, Poly Market and stuff just got started. I'm not saying that they'll significantly improve, but I imagine they'll get a bit better over time. Um, yeah, I I don't think people want to switch away from, but like like you said, you can't bet on a lot of this culture stuff. um and a lot of like the political stuff which I think Poly Market has done a really really good job at capturing um like the flow for that. I don't know about how Kelshi is doing to be honest

with you. I don't really check a lot of prediction. We had like a week where they launched a bunch of um prediction market tokens like for platforms. They never did particularly well. um like if if there's one that I can get exposure to without having to buy in private markets maybe I'll look into it but for the time being I feel probably not >> market will do well I don't farm it though I feel like that's probably a big farm that a lot of people are not participating >> yeah I think it's getting talked about more now that I'm seeing people who are either partnered sponsored or I'm just seeing like more general mind share around it um I will say on the call she side I don't know about like their native give platform metrics, but I know

through like the Robin Hood partnership, they've been getting quite a ton of volume from them. Um, Vlad, I'm just going to show this. Vlad tweeted, I I hate that they don't put an actual Y-axis on this, but um he's saying they did two billion in uh contract volume in Q3. So, they're they're doing some sizable volume like through the Robin Hood integration, which uses KHI on the back end. Um, so it seems like the partnership strategy is actually it's playing out for them quite well. Um, so I could see them continuing to do well in that arena and maybe maybe uh well I guess we've seen Poly Market try

there was some conversation around them integrating with like X as like the official prediction markets platform for the app. I don't know if that's happened or if that's like maybe something that's in the works or still being talked about, but it seems like that's maybe another big lever is getting integrated into some big apps um and pushing that to people. Um could be get big to grow going forward. Um maybe before we one last topic do a a final shout out to our sponsors for today's stream. I want to do a quick shout out to Katana. Uh, Katana is an L2 built for DeFi and is pioneering the ecosystem category of productive TVL. In just two months, Katana has surpassed 500 million TVL with over 90% of that TVL being

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Learn more at X Allora Network. Thanks so much to our sponsors for the stream. Uh let's get back to it. I guess the the one thing that uh you mentioned um that I we could talk about is uh launchpads. There's been like a bit of a narrative rotation, right? Launchpads are kind of like maybe in the dumps again or like out of the the mind's eye now that uh everyone everyone is like rearming new perexes.

Um everyone's on plasma. Uh I saw some data on this, but we have our own launchpads dashboard. Let me just pull that up. Uh I think we're like hitting lows again for I guess this is the Salana only but that's where major majority of it happens but um hitting some like re relative recent lows. So September 28th I guess this is revenue. I should pull volumes as well but um total category revenues on Salana just around a million down from you know we were in the two to three um sort of million range over the past couple of months.

Um, I don't know. It feels I don't know if it's just it's not the hot narrative anymore. We had the little creator capital markets kind of bumps with like Zora was in the mind in uh in mind share for a few weeks or maybe a month. Um they had some new rollouts like pump was very much like um front and center with you know sending 100% to the token doing the creator capital markets uh pushing like that sort of kind of advertising. Um it does it feels like it's kind of fallen out of trend right now um and not being talked about as much and we're seeing that reflected as well in in the trading volumes.

Yeah, this is like kind of a scary thing if you're a pump because that just means that you I don't know how much they bought. I need to pull up fees.pumpfund.com but uh like I don't know you you want to like really keep track of this this down potential downtrend. Um, I mean there's some I hate saying this because every time I say this it's ends up being the bottom, but >> it's the bottom.

There's there's something to be said here about um like crypto's fundamentally an attention game and we all know this and if attention is moving away from meme coins and towards prediction markets and per stexes that that doesn't mean that memes are completely gone. Um, but it also doesn't mean that like you want to constantly stay long memes and launchpads. Like I mean, yes, at some point Pump is I mean I'm in Pump at this point. I think it's attractive. Um, I'll reconsider if I notice that Launchpads are doing significantly worse than they were before and like a lot of that

volume isn't coming back. But we've had moments, right? Like February, March was down. um same as like late June to July it was down. Same as late August it was down. Like we have these moments of cyclicality within memecoin. So you want to keep track of it. Um meme coins probably don't go away but also don't want to be the last Japanese soldier on the island as well. Um like where a team is shipping in a million dollars a day into a dying product that might get attention back in eight months. Like there's there's also a chance that memes just don't do very well for 6 months as stocks come on chain prediction markets

end up doing better stable coin narrative big per stacks narrative it's it's not unheard of that something dies out for six months and this is the same thing with perex like maybe this was the attention when everybody was launching per taxes and then you know they just they go down for six months and then they come back. I mean the perstex thing is a bit more difficult because it allows you to trade every token right like memecoins launchpads and like pump swap is exclusively for memecoins. So well not exclusive mostly meme coins. So >> yeah I I guess there's a question if um pump expands into more of a platform

like they have the memecoins they have pump swap. >> We can pull that up as well if you if you want to. I know we're making you pull up a lot of data here, but >> what am I pulling? >> Um, it should be on the pump fun dashboard that we have here. Let me hide this while I find it. >> What chart did you want, sir? >> Uh, pump fun. >> Uh, pump fun. Sorry, I'm also getting yelled at by Ryan Connor while I'm on the pod.

>> This guy was good. >> It's creative coins creator CCM metrics. It will be under analytics >> stats. >> Yeah, token stats. Um, no, I think it should be on token creators. >> Okay, >> token creator rewards maybe. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, >> there you go. Creator rewards are down quite a bit. Um yeah, that one right like and this was the big bull thing for for creator tokens like creator rewards were supposed to do really really well but I mean this is a function of swaps like all of this >> it's trading volume it's the same as uh

the ICM like believe and all the other platforms that did dynamic fees and then they fed that back into the tokens. Yeah, >> like it's it's a self-feeding system. though if if one part of it breaks down, you end up seeing repercussions across three to four of the markets. Um three to four of the stats. Um I don't know. I I I don't want to bet against pump. I I feel like they're probably the best to capture that entire sector. Um people know how to use Solana for memecoins now.

like they have they're accustomed to the platform and to like all of the other platforms on that like the secondary and tertiary products as well like Axi and whatever other Telegram bot you might be using. >> Yeah. >> But so you have to be like maybe >> Yeah. I think the interesting thing is if they if they actually you know I know that the creator capital markets like there was a bit of a maybe a blowoff to that trend a couple a week or two ago. Uh people were very excited about it. You can see the volumes are down now. You can see the creator rewards are down.

But if it led to like you know higher lows in terms of like views and users on the platform um it could be interesting at least in them like expanding the their product suite. So, I don't know if they get people on the pump app, if they get people on live streams, like if they can add more products and like I don't know, we're just seeing this more and more where you have a good brand, you build one good product and then the the next step is just build more products that connect with that. So, um it wouldn't be crazy to see Pump like roll out a per product. It wouldn't be crazy to see them roll out a stable coin product, a credit card, whatever, you know, all of the other like rollouts that all of the

other teams in the space are doing. Once you have that like user base that's pretty, you know, relatively sticky, even when they, you know, if they lose a large amount of activity, there's there still is like some sticky amount of of users, um, and an amount of revenue that's driven from that. So, um, if you can then, you know, monetize them a little bit more, um, or expand the product a little bit more and get, you know, additional users from that, um, they have a ton of cash. So, I agree with you. it would be it's it's just a hard team to bet bet against because they can build a lot more and chip a lot more uh with the funds and now the size of the team that they have. Um >> unless they're, you know, the way that you'd be betting against them is if

they're cashing out and they're done, they're not going to build any more products. But that doesn't really seem to be like the most they're shipping in a lot of money for a team that would be >> Exactly. So they seem aligned with it. just, you know, I I do think with everything else we we see these narrative cycles and um I think these creator rewards there's there's this reflexivity game baked in that you mentioned where when when it's hot and when volume is pumping like it's obviously very good, it makes all the metrics look really good and then when it kind of like when the narrative dies a little bit then it makes all the metrics look that much worse because it's reflexive to the downside as well.

So it's good on the way up and it's bad on the way down. Um maybe maybe this bottoms again and and there's another opportunity or maybe there's just a maybe they you know do a fresh new narrative totally unrelated to streamer coins at some point. We we'll have to see. I don't have any strong thoughts here. Like I'm not I'm not long or short pump. So no not when would you be interested? Ignore assume that creator rewards do okay like assume that everything is middling. It doesn't die out, but it also doesn't go back to the all-time highs of whatever it meant to be.

>> Yeah, that's a good question. I don't know if it if it stays around this valuation then I don't know. It it almost feels about right. Like I don't know, maybe you Ryan Connor, you'll get him in here and he'll say, you know, look how much cash they have and look at their revenues like and their expected growth. Like it's obviously cheap, but that doesn't really matter in the space. Um, if you bid it before the solds and then you sold it at peak sold hype, like then that was a good trade.

>> Yeah. >> Um, I think that that's probably the type of thing. I mean, I thought pump was probably a good bet going into that, but just >> it's just not the type of trade that I wanted to make like size into a big market. That's the type of like good perp trade I feel like you can make. Um, but like I said, I'm not a perp trader. So, >> but I don't know. I it could get it could look really like attractive and like maybe not necessarily bombed out, but if this thing really just goes sideways or people totally like, you know, maybe we have another month or two of stable coins and pers and people think memecoins are dead forever. Um, that's that's probably when it's like a very clear like slam the slam the green button type of opportunity.

But who knows, maybe I'll dabble right now. I don't know. I think I would have happily loved to buy pump anytime prior to 2025. Um, but they didn't give me that token opportunity until this year. So, >> sometimes it goes like that. >> Sometimes it does go like that. >> Well, sir, uh, I don't have anything else. You have anything else you want to show the newsletter and talk about the newsletter before we roll out of here.

Yeah, I'll show it one last time. We um guys, make sure to check out the newsletter. We write it every day. It's the analysts. Um you can find it by searching Zerx Research um Block Works or you can just find it in the show notes below or you can >> or hit the QR code >> right here. Very good. Um but yeah, we do it every day. It's pretty good. Think you'll like it. Very good. >> Good. Love it. Uh otherwise, Bach will see you at D London in two weeks >> and on the live stream again.

>> What's that? Or on the live stream again. I guess that's true. You You'll see him on the live stream again and then you'll see him at D. Um but otherwise, thanks for tuning in. We will see you all next time. Peace. [Music]