Optimism reduces fees, Kintsugi updates and more - The Daily Gwei Refuel #289 - Ethereum Updates

Transcript

hello everyone and welcome to another episode of the daily gray refuel wary capped latest news in the ethereum ecosystem i'm your host anthony sosano and today's the 10th of january 2022 all right everyone let's get into it so there was this blog post from the founder of signal that was going around over the weekend the founder's name is moxie here where he wrote about his first impressions of web three so here's the kind of like blog post here i'm sure a lot of you have read it it was a sobering view it was good to get someone else's view of the kind of like crypto web 3 ecosystem that isn't actually you know a web 3 person like he's coming obviously from the web 2 world and it was good to get criticisms that weren't uh uh just like really just like plain fud right like actual kind of like

informed criticisms um and he seems to really get what's going on in in the ecosystem so i really appreciated that now really what i think most of the post boiled down to is that he i mean he touched on this as well but like while i was reading it all i could think of was okay like all these criticisms while they may be valid it's kind of like criticizing the tech as it is today and not what the tech can be in the future and he actually brought that up you know he said that uh whereas in some part of the blog post he said uh it's early days still is the most common refrain i see from people in the web 3 space when discussing matters like these um and then he goes i think he mentioned that you know it's already been like

over 10 years and these problems still exist and a lot of the problems were like using kind of centralized infrastructure providers like infuria an alchemy using uh centralized front ends right i mean he has a point there like most of us we use metamask with a centralized rpc something like inferior alchemy if you don't know what that means basically what ends up happening is when you create you know when you use metamask the default rpc for the ethereum main net is infuria now what that means is that whenever you send the transaction or sign a transaction it will go to infurious kind of like servers or full nodes to relay that onto the ethereum network if you want to do it on your own you can you have to change your rpc and run your own ethereum full node that basically gives you like the full security of the

ethereum network and full decentralization of it but as long as you're using a third party uh infuriate could essentially censor you they could just drop your transaction right they could basically reject it and your transaction would never get included i don't think that there's ever been instances of them doing this or any other kind of like service provider doing this but they still could right it doesn't matter that they haven't what matters is that they could do that so i thought that was a that was a kind of like um a pretty decent criticism there and that's definitely something that we need to work on i know there's a few projects out there tackling this like pocket network um they've got a token but it only trades otc i'm pretty sure you can't buy it on public markets but they're trying to do distributed kind of like node infrastructure where

instead of you just connecting to inferior connected to kind of like a distributed set of nodes and that way it just becomes more you know arguably more decentralized and secure than using a centralized server so that was kind of like um one criticism that i agree with nfts he went he he criticized those as well saying that basically it's completely centralized it's just you know a lot of these images a lot of these um urls and hashes and things like that are just stored on centralized servers instead of on chain and they are like that's a legit criticism right i know some of them utilize ipfs and r weave and some other kind of like decentralized storage protocols but for the most part they're stored on opencv servers or stored on someone else's server and if that server was to go down you would lose the image of that nft

and all you would be left with is kind of like the the nft on chain it wouldn't really be worth much right so kind of like from that perspective i get that as well but again it all goes back to what i was saying earlier about how these criticisms are just criticizing the way it is today and and don't necessarily apply to the way it is going to be in the future there are plenty of people working on projects to uh or working on things to kind of like rectify a lot of these issues especially around the centralization of front ends of um of of infrastructure providers of kind of like marketplaces like openc obviously in the nft ecosystem is extremely centralized um and it's 97 of the nft market we need to kind of like work to to um to fix that it's actually an nft

project that launched today it's trying to do a decentralized open seat called looks rare there's an airdrop and things for it they're doing like a vampire attack on open sea um but yeah these things are coming like it is really still early days and i don't know why he expects us to be much further along uh you know a bit over 10 years into this ecosystem because if you actually break it down yeah okay bitcoin came out in like 2009 but that's bitcoin right like if we're looking at the smart contract revolution um you could say ethereum you know launched in mid-2015 but it didn't really kind of like take off or kind of reach a point where it actually became like something that people looked at in in a serious way until 2017 and then even then i would argue it didn't really take off very much i would say that

when ethereum smart contract blockchains things like that started actually being viewed as something serious and something that would actually disrupt traditional um traditional industries is defy and that didn't really take off until 2020 right like it existed but it didn't really kind of like hit the main mainstream kind of like not mainstream but like you know the crypto kind of like hive of mine until 2020 and then we had nfts in 2021 which kind of like hit the mainstream too so if we look at it from that perspective really in terms of like uh there being money for these sorts of things they're being interested being kind of like human capital in this ecosystem you could make the argument that that started happening in 2019 but i would say that 2020 really was the turning point so i think up until 2020 it was just really slow super early

adopter innovator growth there wasn't that much money floating around um and it was kind of like hard to get things done because the the human capital wasn't there either but now since basically the start of this bull market in early 2020 in march you know around kind of like march i guess there's been a massive amount of money that's floating to this ecosystem massive amount of funding massive amount of human capital a lot of things you know a lot more things got built like you know 100 100 x or even a thousand x more things got built in the last two years and adopted in the last two years than in the previous 10. so when you look at it from that perspective i would argue that we haven't even begun yet and i i would argue that we're like we're making you know amazing progress for how

short of a time span has really been and obviously things like ethereum 2.0 have been coming for a very long time as well and we're kind of like going through the motions of that as well too things like decentralized um uh storage have only really been coming out late recently i mean file coin only launched last uh last year i think it was yeah and our weave as well and things like that and pocket network two stuff all that sort of stuff very early days still so i don't really agree with him saying that people saying it's early days are wrong because it's already been a while i really do think it's still early days and i think hey let's revisit this in five years we're gonna have to wait another ten years let's revisit this in five years and see how many of his

criticisms about web 3 are still relevant because i think most of them won't be anymore i think we will have worked with some really really cool um uh really really cool and innovative ideas to get us to a kind of like decent more decentralized ecosystem and i think it's going to be a lot better now the final thing i wanted to kind of like say about this was about decentralization in general and how i've written i've written a newsletter about this before in the past but essentially centralization is like this pool right there's this thing that keeps pulling people towards it because centralization it's very very easy to do right all the issues that we have within crypto today could be solved 100 if we just centralized it the scalability issues the privacy issues um uh that you know

the throughput issues the the the the the uh the kind of like front end the centralized front end issues all that sort of stuff they could be instantly solved if we just centralized everything but obviously the whole point is that we're trying to unbundle all of that that was done in web 2 and all of that that was done in traditional finance and create a truly decentralized ecosystem which is really really hard there's a reason why most things are centralized because it's super easy for them to centralize and there's a reason the internet centralized around around kind of like uh the server client model where there was just like these massive servers that kind of um uh serviced all these clients it's because it's just easy like you know people don't want to run their own server i get that but on the other end of the

spectrum for the longest time and still to this day there's not really a way for people to run their own kind of like servers uh they're bandwidth capped which is a huge thing upload speeds are pathetic most of the time for most people it's just really hard for them to do it so they kind of like outsource it to these massive data centers whereas you know with crypto we have a way to kind of like do this in in you know even though there's there's these limits in place we have a way to kind of like sp uh turn this on his head on its head by using things like zk cryptography which from what i can tell has much more applications than just scalability right in terms of blockchain scalability it allows us to scale kind of like web two-esque things in a really cool way as

well so i think when you view it that kind of like that from that perspective it's just going to take time to decentralize these things and i think that users once they understand the implications of decentralization and security once we make it easy for them to choose the decentralization path instead of the centralization one instead of a centralized one i think they'll make that that that kind of like choice because at the end of the day it's all about kind of making it easy for users to do things like and this goes back to what i was saying about kind of uh centralization centralization around fear and alchemy and other service providers this is actually mostly because we don't have good light client infrastructure now what light clients allow you to do is you're not it means you wouldn't have to run a full node to kind of like relay

your transactions or at least verify uh that your transactions are correct and verify that what you're talking to is the correct chain and all that sort of stuff um but i'm not going to go into that for now so yeah i mean give this blog post a read as i said it's actually really good um and i think the criticisms are fair but what i think it's kind of like doing is just it's it's kind of like criticizing us for saying it's too early but that's actually the reason that a lot of these criticisms hold today is because it is really early we've really just scratched the surface of this nfts have really only been around for the last year in terms of kind of like in in a big way yes they've been around for longer than that but in terms of taking off in a big way to the last year um and

we're gonna see how it evolves over the next four years if the marketplace is decentralized you know if the infrastructure providers decentralize which i think they will uh but yeah anyway go give this post a read moving on to some other things so in in the ama that the ethereum foundation did vitalik gave an argument about why he believes the future will be multi-chain but it will not be cross-chain um because and he goes on to say there are fundamental limits to the security of bridges that hop across multiple zones of sovereignty now i'm not going to read out this whole kind of response here you can read it a link in the youtube description but the tldr is that basically what i've been saying to you guys for for the last few months about how bridges work your bridge is only as good as it's kind of like weakest

validator set now what do i mean by that well if you bridge from ethereum to uh say the avalanche c chain well you no longer have a theorem security because the avalanche c chain is not a layer two of ethereum what you now have is a basically your funds locked on the um ethereum side in the bridge contract the iou gets minted on the avalanche c chain uh now if something happens to those funds on the avalanche c chain you know those funds on ethereum can potentially be stuck right stuck forever because you can't get them back without going back from from the avalanche chain so essentially you are basically at the mercy of that security now that happens for basically any side chain out there anything that's not a layer to

anything that doesn't store its data and is transaction proof on ethereum so anything that really isn't a roll-up is going to have the same kind of like the same issue whereas uh and then this is where vitalik breaks it down into multi-chain and cross-chain that's a cross-chain example multi-chain i know people have been saying multi-chain is the future and things like that and they by saying that they refer to you know ethereum solana avalanche whatever other chains and them coming out like terra all those sorts of things but really that's kind of like cross-chain multi-chain is layers built on top of ethereum and inheriting ethereum security so when it comes to arbitrary optimism for example this is an example of rollups that we've all used um when they're in their kind of like end state and they don't have

centralized controls and training wheels in place uh they essentially are only at the mercy of ethereum security so you get ethereum's full security there are no kind of like centralized uh centralized gatekeepers there's no centralized keys anymore once they're in there they're kind of like end state and essentially what happens is is that that's a true kind of like multi-chain um feature there so i think i agree with vitalik that the future will be multi-chain but will not be cross-chain but i actually agree with him for different reasons his reasons are all about security which i understand and kind of like agree with to an extent but at the same time i don't think that everything needs a security of ethereum i don't think that everyone wants to be

beholden to ethereum layer 1 security i think that there are people out there teams out there that want to build their own self-sovereign chains and that's totally fine the thing is is that those chains can be built and then they can talk to ethereum anyway they already do they're called side chains right let me refer to them as side chains now is that a good or bad thing i don't know i don't think it's a bad thing i don't know if it's a good thing depending on the use case right like if you build your own kind of like chain you call it like the d5 chain and it's super like uh it's super scalable but really like super insecure compared to ethereum and you amass like billions of dollars in tvl should you have been a rollup instead i would argue yes but is your

sidechain something got to do with like low value nfts or gaming or something like that maybe uh or kind of like putting kind of games on a sidechain and it doesn't really matter too much because there's not much there's not that kind of like high value economic activity on there then maybe it makes sense but i would also argue that roll up technology is going to obsolete side chains anyway like especially zk roll up technology um from you know in the in the in the far future probably not anytime soon in terms of kind of like uh uh completely obsoleting it but uh but i do think it will just from a pure kind of like scalability perspective not even just not even a security perspective just like it's going to be more scalable it's going to be easier to develop with it's going to

be better it's going to be faster users are going to enjoy the experience more um uh but yeah anyway i thought this was just like a a a an interesting argument from vitalik you can read his full thing it'll be linked in the youtube description but yeah my view on it is that i agree with him to an extent but i also believe that people still kind of spin up their own chains whether they be kind of like chains that bond themselves to ethereum in some way like the polygon pos chain which kind of like is a commit chain that bonds itself to ethereum layer one whether it's a roll-up whether it's some other kind of construction that people come up with i do think there's always going to be people that want to do that but i think that the the um the total

adjustable market for those sorts of things is very low compared to the total adjustable market for things like roll-ups because when you create your own self-sovereign chain you have to bootstrap your own validator set which isn't i mean i wouldn't say it's it's like the hardest thing in the world but it's kind of like it's a mess right like and coming to consensus on things making sure the chain stays in consensus it's it's actually not easy right like there's only there's only a certain amount of people who can kind of do that and maintain that and even if you fork an existing implementation the problem with doing that is that if you're an inexperienced developer and you fork something that you don't understand and you start making changes to it uh that becomes very very messy from that perspective as well so yeah i mean

my tldr is that yes multi-chain is the the best path forward with roll-ups and such but i do believe crosstrain is still going to persist regardless of the security concerns all right so we have an update on the kimsugi merge test net so it broke they managed to break it which is good it's what we want to happen on test nets um so the trdr is that some clients did not check if the block hash passed in an execution payload uh matches the block hash of the block after construction which means that i'm pretty sure there was a network split on the consig test net here now there's kind of like a full breakdown in this thread from mario str but i mean this is good i like i know people kind of like see this like oh crap a test net broke does that mean

it's gonna delay the merge or something like that i don't think so i'm actually still pretty confident in like a q2 even a june kind of merged merge kind of date here i am from everything that i'm seeing they're making incredible progress and a test net breaking especially a test net breaking on with a network split is really really good because we don't want this happening on main network right we want this happening on the test net so as long as it happens on on a test net we can kind of diagnose the issue and then make sure it doesn't happen on main net which is obviously the whole point but yeah i'm still feeling pretty confident so i don't think that these sorts of things are going to lead to a quote-unquote delay of the merge not that there's been any kind of like official date given out

there but believe me when i tell you that the core devs they haven't i don't from my kind of like impression from and you know this is not all the core days but the ones that i talked to um the devs and the researchers they have never been more excited about something in the in ethereum ever like this is this is kind of like the most exciting thing and i honestly i think it it's justified because we're finally moving to proof of stake after how many years it is an absolutely massive undertaking it's getting all the core devs and researchers in the same room to work together it is something that is going to obviously get ethereum off proof of work which is something that a lot of people haven't have an issue with it's just such a major upgrade that it's hard not to feel like it's the

biggest thing that you'll do maybe not maybe it may be in ethereum and maybe even in your life like some of these people right this is their legacy making you know um merging a 500 billion or 400 billion now network uh with with kind of like another network and making sure that everything runs smoothly in an adversarial environment as well so yeah i think that it's justified to be excited there i'm ex i'm super excited obviously but uh the way i played is i try not to get too ahead of myself until it actually kind of like is in is in view right because like you know you guys know what happened with one five five nine i mean it took forever for it to get to maine and i remember being excited about that at the start of jan sorry the start of 2019 and

then it didn't happen until uh august 2020 um so uh sorry august 2021 not 2020 so you know over two and a half years later it's uh and i was excited that whole time so i try not to get ahead of myself too much here but it's it's close i mean we're in january if it happens by june it's only a few months away guys so very very exciting but yeah i'm curious to see what other test nets gets spun up here and if any of them break because if they don't break uh you know and no matter what we kind of like throw at them if they're running all well and good then we can move on to the main net pretty you know pretty pretty pretty soon which is really really cool so optimism have reduced their fees on their layer two networks so they are

basically a fixed overhead uh fees was reduced from 2750 l1 gas to 2100 l1 gas and dynamic overhead was reduced from 1.5 x to 1.24 x fancy numbers what do they mean transactions are now about 30 cheaper on average that's awesome like i mean i've been telling you guys that these roll-ups are nowhere near their final form they're going to keep getting exponentially better from here they're going to get much cheaper arbitrary still has nitro coming which i'm i'm assuming is going to be a similar reduction in fees if not um if not more of a reduction in fees than this because nitro is a pretty big upgrade there but yeah 30 cheaper transactions on optimism i'll take that that's a very very good deal uh and you know as i said like this is not even close to their final form

they can still do more from here they can still do chordata compression um and and when they get more kind of like data availability space with things like uh a sharding and then 44 erp 4488 when that kind of gets uh it gets put in place for a cheaper call data on layer one ethereum that reduces it even more and you know i wrote today's newsletter about this and in the newsletter i focused on what what the sweet spot is for transaction fees i actually think that there isn't really a one size fits all sweet spot because it depends on the transaction that you're doing and the example i gave in the newsletter was basically if you're a user with a thousand dollars right and you've got an airdrop worth a thousand dollars well you're happy to pay a hundred dollars worth of fees to claim

and sell that airdrop faith right because you've just gotten a free 900 after after fees but if you're a user that has a thousand dollars and you want to put that into a stable coin yield farm and the fee is 50 and the stable coin yield farm is giving you a 10 apy well you're gonna have to wait six months just to break even on your gas fee right because you paid five percent fees and that ten percent is variable it's not a fixed rate either um uh well a lot of the time you know you can get fixed rates but so from that perspective it depends on the context of the use of of the transaction but it also depends on uh not just the the person's kind of like wealth but kind of like uh where they are in the world as well and

kind of like what the tax implications are there's so much that goes into it but after thinking about it for a while i figured that the sweet spot that would cover like most users um but not not not on a what what transaction they're doing just like as a generalized thing would between would be between 10 cents and a dollar right for a transaction fee now when you kind of like think about that you got to think about okay what parts of the world is that justified in it's really only justified in the kind of like our first world parts of the world and maybe even just the middle class because you know it's really it's kind of like hard to think about it from another person's perspective unless you talk to them and i and i've spoken to a few people about this like if you're

if you're kind of like middle class it's very very hard to know what it's like to be poor right unless you've been poor already so you can't kind of like say oh yeah a dollar that's whatever a dollar to you is very different to a dollar to someone else and and and it depends on the kind of like wealth scale where you are there so i think there's another solution to this not just kind of like i mean people are going to pay the fee that they're happy to pay at the end of the day but i think that yeah 10 cents to a dollar is like a sweet spot for for most people in kind of like the first world depends on the frequency of transactions that people are doing it obviously depends on the transaction that they're doing as well because it depends on the

profit that they're getting from that if you're uh if you're kind of making a trade for an asset that you expect to go up like 5x or something like that well then you don't mind paying even a 50 fee depending on the size of the transaction there so um but then i also there's another option the option and this extends to kind of like layer two is not really layer one fees this is all kind of like in the context of layer two the other option is the layer two actually subsidizing the fee cost for the users because they've gotten it down to such a place that it actually becomes economically viable for them to do that there's a few ways to do this um there's already examples of this dydx is already doing it because there are obviously a zk roll up uh they make trading fees on

their exchange and using some of that revenue they pay the layer one gas fee so users never play gas fees but users are still paying fees they're paying trading fees there's no free lunch like even when you're kind of um on these other cheaper chains you're still paying trading fees and then this bridges into the psychology of fees which is is related to the fees being subsidized because the psychology of fees is this in obviously on ethereum l1 metamask tells you the diff and are on layer 2 metamask will tell you this is the transaction value and this is the fee value as two separate line items but imagine if that was baked in because no one bats an eye at the 0.3 unisop fee like nobody even thinks about that i've i've never seen anyone talk

about that never seen anyone complain about that just like people don't really talk too much about centralized exchange fees unless they're prohibitive right because they're built in to the prices they're kind of like built into the transaction that you're doing so imagine a world where the gas fee was built into the actual price and not shown as a separate line item by default maybe you could kind of like expand that out the psychology there would be totally different i think a lot of people would not even notice that the fee was very high uh depending on the transaction size that they're doing of course but um you know if it's in the sweet spot of 10 cents to a dollar i doubt most people even gonna notice it's obviously gets pre people are noticed when it obviously gets prohibitively expensive like on a on ethereum l1 but i'm talking about

l2cr because optimism for a swap is down to i think three dollars at the moment or even less than that depends on the l1 gas cost and as i said with better uh uh kind of like optimizations at uh on their layer two network in addition to erp 4488 in addition to sharding those fees are going to come down considerably more um on optimistic robs and zk robs they're going to be under a dollar before we even know it so is the so if the sweet spot is between 10 cents and a dollar for people in the first world or for middle class people in the first world then um they're not even going to notice that now can we get that down even further for everyone else yes we can we can get that down much further uh we can get that down to

basically free if we do what i said what i said before about subsidization of those fees um and as i said they could be done through revenue being generated by the roll-up in other ways but that could also be done through token inflation so you could imagine these l2's doing tokens and then some of that token gets kind of like sold in the open market and then the money that uh that gets um sorry that gets uh uh that they get from that is used to pay the ethereum l1 gas fees to secure the roll up so there are multiple ways teams can kind of like handle this and i'm coming up on time here so i got a bit more stuff to get through but i thought it was important to kind of discuss that because we're really on the scratch of service of what we can do here and i do believe

there's a huge kind of like psychology around fees and whichever layer two does it correctly where they can actually effectively quote unquote hide the fees from from the user and that they don't have to worry about it and then it's not too too expensive that it kind of like annoys them i think it's gonna is gonna be a big deal so so yeah anyway good luck congrats to optimism for reducing their fees here i can't wait to see it on arbitram when they release nitro as well so conext has announced that they formed a partnership with layer swap to enable on-ramp from centralized exchanges to a broader list of chains and l2s the integration is now live starting with polygon pos support so i've mentioned layer swap before basically a i guess man in the middle that sits between a centralized exchange and a layer two now

they're going to be tapping into connexx's uh bridge network or bridge liquidity network which is really really cool so i guess congrats to them on the partnership here this is going to open i guess like um more more bridging options for more users for more centralized exchanges uh but yeah as i said i'm going to power through the rest of these updates because i'm coming up on time here but cool to see that um arcs.eth has it built a nice little tool uh that basically allows you to search all available dropping and expired ens domains and help filter out the noise so you know you can drop your dot eth in the comments for early access and it will soon be at ens.tools but there's a screenshot here so this is just basically a really easy way to search different ens names and as as he

said you can search them for like you know what's available what's expiring right when it was created what price it is all that sort of stuff there so really really cool to see more community tools being built around ans here so polygon put together a quick thread and update on the state of the polygon pos chain and what they're doing here obviously as you guys know transaction fees on the polygon pos chain shot up due to i think it was some kind of like ponzi game farm thing i didn't look too deeply into it but the fees did shoot up and i did cover this last week so i'm not going to go into that again but essentially this kind of like update thread goes through what they're working on um they're working on uh erp 1559 to improve the fee market they're working on the polygon pos v3 which is it which

is introducing significant architecture improvements uh zk based solutions as we all know and the polygon sdk will offer the app specific chains as well so there's a few other things here like using different rpcs and stuff like that but yeah the polygon team is definitely on top of this so yeah really really cool to see this from them uh check out you can check out this full thread it's a little thread but you can check it out if you want to it'll be linked in the usual description so alex vanovic from nansen has put together a 2021 in review thread for the top 20 ethereum gas consumers so you can read these threaded links in the youtube description but uh i don't think it's any surprise what came in at number one it was uni swap obviously uh number two was open c again not a surprise

number three was one inch which is actually quite surprising to me i am but at the same time it shouldn't be because i think one inch is quite gas heavy but the way they work the aggregator is that it's actually worth it to spend more in gas because they give you a better price um but yeah number four was wrapped eighth that's pretty funny right wrapped eighth coming in at number four as uh as kind but that makes sense because of the d5 activity number five was tether six usdc seven rv eight zero x nine meter mask swaps people thumbing that airdrop and a possible airdrop and ten was sushi swap and there's a bunch of others going through here eleven was actually chain link so chandling is actually quite a big gas con consumer because they have to update their oracle um oracle updates there but you can also

see kind of like the chart that he's linked here where it's basically showing uh a kind of like um a breakdown of each uh app and what they what they kind of like consume here you can use up just dominates i mean swaps at what like 50 i mean 50 between 40 and 50 maybe dips below it sometimes depending on on the yeah you can see it actually dipped below 30 percent uh during the lull that we had in august september or october but uh yeah definitely a big gas consumer there check out this thread it'll be linked in the youtube description for you so lucas from the maple finance team has shared that there's big gas reductions coming for maple finance loans v2 so gas reductions up to 90 this is crazy like you can see here that uh a creation of a loan currently cost

4.3 million gas in v1 in v2 it's only going to cost 525 000 gas which is an effective 90 reduction that's huge right and then you can actually as i've said before you can actually port these improvements to an evm compatible roll-up really easily so maple can take v2 straight to optimism and straight to arbitram and get these gas cost reductions are there as well so really really cool to see that from them um and yeah this is obviously going to be a big big improvement there all right last up here we have a new app that i came across called bento or at least the new app in development so they seem they describe themselves as a fun and simple way to browse nfts you can follow and join the discord for early access to it so you can see there's a little kind of like teaser video here of

what's going on seems to be kind of like a um kind of like tinder for nfts right swipe left swipe right the right sort of thing but not really swiping and kind of like liking or or loving or not liking an nft avatar here so that's really cool and you know it's funny i think the nft kind of like profile picture or avatar movement is still very very strong like i'm sure a lot of you have seen a lot of them i'm kind of like a pump over the last week i think i don't think it's going to be a trend that dies down because profile pictures are tied very strongly to people's identities but it's hard to know which has lasting power i mean board apes flipped crypto punks in terms of floor price and you know people some people saw that coming obviously

depending on what you held you saw it you know you saw it coming but it kind of like speaks to okay well which ones are actually going to be around for a while which ones are going to hold their value and how much you know how much of it is kind of like short-term memetic desire uh which basically means how much of it is just like short-term speculation on these things because other people like them versus long-term fundamental value but i do think the general trend of profile picture nfts and avatar nfts is going to last a while but most of them won't succeed of course even in the short term most of them won't succeed but there'll be some that have a pretty big staying power there but anyway check out this uh this app join the discord uh there but i think that's going to be it for today's

episode so thank you everyone for listening and watching be sure to subscribe to the channel if you haven't yet give the video a thumbs up subscribe to the newsletter join the discord channel and i'll catch you all tomorrow thanks everyone