From NGOs to NFTs to Starting Over: María Paula Fernández - Aave Labs

Transcript

So, I want to start with who you were before we knew each other, before you entered crypto before MP here right now. Who was she? Tell me. >> Tell me everything, >> right? >> I'm just a girl, you know. >> I'm just a girl >> in the world. >> In the world. Um so before crypto I was I I had moved to Berlin I think five years.

>> Okay. >> Um ago I joined crypto in 2017. >> Yeah. >> And before that I you I'm originally from Argentina like you know um I grew up there and at 25 26 I was um yeah I was very disenchanted with the c with the country. I was working a 9 to5 um in oil and gas. >> Okay. >> For a big multinational. >> Yeah. >> And I was one of the few people there that could speak English. So I I had a lot of responsibility because the company was Texan.

>> Okay. >> Actually. >> Um so suddenly I had like I I was a kid and then suddenly I had all of these huge responsibility and I was doing huge proposals for refineries and whatnot. >> Okay. >> Because I was the only one that had a really good management of of the language. >> Yes. So, I was managing all of this information and my salary was not more than $400 um for or $500 because I was in Argentina so corporate didn't care about us. >> Uh so, >> and I I was also traveling about uh four hours per day commuting because >> Buenosidis roads are messed up and there was always

a strike back then. So I was commuting for four hours uh then working for eight nine hours and then getting paid terribly to handle a lot of responsibility. >> Yes. >> Um and I told my boss, hey there's something wrong here. I'm doing all of these. I you know I know I'm young. I I was I think I was 23 when I had these conversations >> or something. And I'm like I'm I know I'm young but I'm clearly not stupid. >> There's a lot depending on me. I know a lot. Yes.

>> Uh why don't I get paid like the rest of you guys? >> And yeah, she tried. She was amazing. She was very She was like a mentor. >> Okay. >> Um and she said, "Okay, let's try it." But yeah, cases like these I haven't been successful in the company. >> Okay. >> And she was absolutely right. But then she knew that actually I was wanting to move to Europe. >> Okay. Um, and I'm going to tell you why I moved to Europe later on because it's it's sort of like an like a weird instinct.

>> Okay. And she told me, "I know that you're trying to move. Um, what I'll do so you get the most out of these." >> Yes. >> I'll fire you without notice. >> Yes. >> So, you'll get the most severance that you can get in the company. >> Okay. >> So, of course, I had, you know, we decided this a month in advance. And I trained a person >> to cover >> and when I felt confident I was like okay today is the day. >> Yes. >> You can't imagine how how much I cried like I I I was Yeah. So she fired me and I got all that money. I traded it into USD.

>> Yes. >> To move to Europe and then that was the money that got me started in Berlin. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Amazing. So that was really incredible how a person that you're just working with and but she's your boss can just change the course of your life like that. >> Did you have the plan to move to Europe already or was it facilitated by this event? >> No. So here's the funny thing. Okay. >> So my grandparents are Italian. >> Yes.

>> And I grew up with them. >> Okay. >> Uh because my my mom is a doctor and my dad too. So they were super super busy. Okay. Um so I didn't really spend a lot of time when I was a kid. So I always thought like when I was like around seven I remember I always thought okay so they came here so I need to go that way. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> All my life I was just convinced >> that that needs to happen. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I just needed to come back. Vote in vote out. >> Yes. >> Playing out actually.

>> Okay. So then I did it. So then that was always it. So yeah, I started scouting for places to be. Um Italy wasn't an option because there was not a lot of opportunity for me there. >> Okay. >> Barcelona um was an option for me. I like life there but salary suck. >> Okay. >> And I was I was and I am really into techno. Okay. >> And I was spending a lot of time in an underground club in Buenosides. So when the DJs there told me we actually live in Berlin, I was like, well, >> I'm also going to leave you there.

>> So then I moved to Berlin. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> And this was 201 >> 2012. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Um and then I went from oil and gas to a Polo magazine because Argentina is the best >> country for polo. Okay. >> And always it was about English. I always spoke really good English. Uh, and somehow a lot of people didn't. >> Okay. >> So, I always had really good access to jobs, really good jobs >> because of that. Okay.

>> Yeah. So, then I was working for a Polo magazine shortly and a German polo magazine scouted me and >> Okay. >> I was planning to move to Berlin. So, I just um got an earlier ticket. Yes. >> And I started Yeah. living in Berlin with a good salary and everything. I didn't do the hard part, you know, work working as a waitress and so on. Um, I was already in polo fields. >> I love it. Just like straight in. Okay. This is where I am. >> Yeah. But then that that was really hard because polo people have a lot of money. Yes.

>> But you know what? They don't have empathy for their employees. >> So they wouldn't pay you and you would spend the night in like Yeah. in an airport waiting room, not doing anything, waiting for your paycheck, waiting for a flight, whatever. >> Okay. >> No hotel. And I was like, "This is so broken." So, as a way to actually um yeah, do something else, I started uh volunteering at organizations with migrant kids. >> Okay.

>> Um I I have a point. >> Okay. I'm interested. I'm finding this thing out. Like, I didn't know this. So I started an NGO with a bunch of foreigners in Berlin to do art workshops with migrant children from the Middle East. >> Okay. >> Because um there was no access to that for foreigners. >> Okay. >> Because the Germans were like, "Oh, no, no, no. We need to actually integrate them. They need to be immediately in German. They need to submit their taxes immediately, you know, and do bureaucracy." I'm like, "Yeah, that's not how it works, right?

>> And there's children here." So we started >> doing that. >> Doing that. Okay. >> That evolved into an NGO. And then I met this little kid, Ali, from Iraq. >> Yes. >> And he was a he's a genius um gifted kid. >> Yes. >> And I he wanted to meet the tech industry because he wanted to work at Apple. >> Okay. >> So I asked a friend, hey, you work at a tech startup. I had no I have no idea. I was in Polo and doing nonprofit. >> Yes. >> Um can I take the kid to your job and you the and your devs can tell him what they do? And he was like, "Sure. And then this great guy explained him blockchain. I'm like, "Wow, first of all, this can fix my country. And secondly, this this is really good. This guy really knows what he's talking

about." He was Gavin Wood, the co-founder of Ethereum. >> Okay. >> And then I told my friend, I actually want to work here. >> And I started as an assistant immediately. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> Boom. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, Polo by >> Yeah. I Were you still doing the NGO? >> Huh? Were you still doing the NGO a little bit or >> I tried but because of the way that the the welcoming centers for migrants were happening in Berlin. >> Okay. >> There was a lot of paperwork. >> Okay.

>> And the yeah half a year uh before I joined crypto actually unfortunately there was this horrible attack at a Christmas market in Berlin. >> Yes. >> So there were a lot of restrictions and we were already not being let in. So that started dying down unfortunately. >> Uh we tried but we we couldn't really move on. >> Okay. >> And also German bureaucracy really put obstacles for us to to grow the organization. >> I feel that continues to be a pattern of just the German bureaucracy is an intense >> Yeah. I just took three months to uh to register my kid as born.

>> Three months. >> Three months. >> Okay. We will get to that to this bit. Um, okay. So that's how you got in to the space started as an assistant. How did that progress to East Berlin >> also in really serendipitous ways? >> Yes. >> So basically I was an assistant at Web3 Foundation for about a month because there were only three of us. >> Yeah. And they didn't have anyone to communicate the pola dot token sale.

>> Okay. >> Or the parity hacks. >> Yes. >> Uh which >> we chatted a little bit yesterday with Helena but also with Griff. >> Of course. >> Yes. >> That's also where I met Griff >> and Helena. >> Right. >> During that wonderful interesting Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. So, you know, I was there. Um, I was an assistant, but I told the people, "Hey, I actually studied communications and I've been working in magazines and I've done communications for oil and gas and whatnot. I think I can do blockchain things."

>> Uh, so I I just on boarded >> just by need out of need. >> Yeah. >> Uh during Web3 Foundation and then >> yeah, I think it was DevCon Cancun. Yes. >> They didn't send me there. Okay. But I was like, are you telling me that this blockchain has a community? >> Polo didn't have one or they had 20 guys um in a chatter box in and one was Joseph Schweitzer from Ethereum Foundation. >> Um so >> uh so I was like, "Wow, there's cool people and they're they have a conference and you know it's a good vibe and I decided, okay, I just want to work in Ethereum." Okay.

>> So, I saw an ad in the Guardian. Yes. >> Golem was was looking for a person to do communications >> and I had back then by then I had like what six contacts. >> Yes. >> And they were all from the Polka Dot token sale and all polka dot advisors as well. >> But I realized this guy was an Ethereum advisor and a polka dot advisor and I asked him if he could wreck me. >> Okay. Because yeah, back you know I I was already really craving to go into Ethereum.

>> Yeah. >> He recommended me and I got a job at Golem and stayed for four years. >> Yes. >> But in the middle because I can't really >> sit still. >> I I Yeah. Yeah. That's my problem. I was I really wanted, you know, I really believed in the blockchain mission. I think I still do. Nine years >> Yeah. >> in the game. Yeah. And I was really determined to bring some education because there were there were no no people that actually were educated. It was only technical people.

>> Yes. >> And I had a really hard time with that. Yes. >> Um I had to read white papers if I wanted to learn something. >> Yeah. Um, so yeah, I was just around and talking to people in Japan and in in my co-working space um in Berlin. And then we decided to start a hackathon with the non-technical people. We just were there and we were like, okay, what should we do? Well, we should start a hackathon. And then I'm like, there's so many blockchain projects here. Why don't we start a blockchain week in Berlin so I don't have to travel? Love it.

Convenience. Bring the moment here. Amazing. >> Yeah. >> And the first one was >> 2018. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> And then um with 2018 like that's I feel those years particularly 2018 2019 that's when the staple events started putting themselves on the map. >> Yeah. And it Berlin is it's obviously the hackathon is a huge part. Yes. But it's also a cultural movement. We managed to get all of the Berlin community together and under as you know under the same values and identifiers.

Yes. >> And also we started an NGO called department of decentralization. Yeah. >> That also run a test net >> the girly test net. >> We had a big arts department. So we curated shows related to the blockchain. That's how I met my husband too. Um and you know there there was all of these ideas in motion that we would incubate and then um advocate for. >> Yes. >> So yeah, we made a thing. >> You made a thing and you made a super cool thing. And I think again with ETH Berlin and what the DoD did was have this super cool important calendar uh event on the calendar. Like

if you would talk to people, they would go "Okay Denver uh ECC East Berlin." >> Yeah. >> And then maybe Devcon. >> It's worth mentioning that the organization is still standing. >> Yes. >> It's evolved. Um, I'm no longer the managing director of Afre. >> Yeah. >> Um, also Berlin guy. >> Yes. >> And the organization is now doing camps with the decentralized web people. They're doing they're going back in more into the hacker culture. I leaned very heavily on the hacker culture. Yes.

>> But as I evolved and I became an entrepreneur, I was obviously the organization was going with me. >> Yes. >> And then >> and being shaped. >> And being shaped. >> Yes. >> And then I felt that I could no longer take care of that because the disconnect was really big. We were no no VCs only cipher punks. Yes. And I wasn't I wasn't that person anymore. Uh, okay. But Afrey is >> okay. >> So now he's the director of the organization. >> How much self-awareness does it take to be able to make that decision and be like, you know what, this isn't this does not match anymore >> and to step away and walk away from it.

>> It was fine for me. Yes, I was ready um I was ready for something else. I also knew that I couldn't actually just follow the organization. I didn't want to. >> Okay. >> I just knew that I couldn't continue myself. >> Okay. >> I wanted also to focus, you know, I was about to get married. Um I had a company. >> Yes. >> Uh so I knew that I wanted to focus on that. >> Okay. >> And it just felt that >> I I end Okay. >> Yeah. >> Of that chapter.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Now we move into the JPEG MP's JPEG chapter. >> Yeah. >> What was that like? Obviously you had created things from scratch before with ETH Berlin and the DoD, but this time did it feel different with this because you want it was a company, but obviously you were also into as it seems the pattern with your experience in crypto. so much about the community >> and the values and growing that kind of dimension.

>> So I started a company because guy h so basically I pub I publish also papers. >> Yes. >> Um and I write and I've written in books about NFT art. I love art. I've always loved culture. I couldn't insert myself in culture before because of the gatekeepers. Yep. So when the NFT boom was around and all of these blockchain art or art informed by blockchains was around, I decided that I wanted to start something. Yes. So that's the art department within the department of centralization.

>> So we've been publishing and just trying to curate shows and trying to get engaged with that. Mhm. >> And I was on Twitter once just nerding out with um Trent uh from Yam. >> Yes. >> Trent from Yam had already broken Yam. >> Yes. >> Not Trent didn't break it, but you know it broke. >> It broke. >> Yeah. So they Yeah. Yam was already you know they they had already broken it. Then they transformed it into a very nice vessel.

>> Yes. and he was ready for something else and we were just geeking out because he's an art historian. Um, we were just chatting and then suddenly he was like, "Hey, I want to start something." Um, and I'm like, "Okay, yeah, that sounds good. I still at Golem and I I still had the DoD and I'm like, I could I could start something else." >> Yes. >> Um, I have two hours a day. >> It's It's that moment where you were like, "This is interesting. I want to even though I don't realistically have time but I want to. >> Yeah. But also it was the pandemic so you we had a lot of time >> of actual time. Yes. Okay. Okay. Okay.

Yes. >> Yeah. So yeah the company happened really quickly. >> Okay. >> As well I had a lot of >> contacts from my experience with the OD and with Golem. >> Yeah. >> So I knew already to you know I I met some guys on the internet and I started a company. So I knew I had to get a lawyer. So I got the lawyer that I liked working with. >> Okay. >> Um and then I start we started getting people into the community because I'm a community builder. >> Yes. >> And I didn't realize but I was talking online to people. I was bringing them into my community and so so is trend and yeah some the other founder as well.

>> So suddenly we had a company and suddenly we're we're racing. >> Yeah. >> And yeah then we launched protocol. Yeah. >> And that was really fun. >> What was the most exciting thing? The speed, the fact that you were finally doing something that you had been so into for so long. The fact that there was a vend diagram be between all of those things. >> It was a really electric time. Yeah. >> 2021 was really incredible because we are we were coming from lockdowns. >> Yes. >> And we were all like really like your our faces were gray. Yes. And then the NFT boom starts.

>> Yes. >> And suddenly everyone has money. But also >> because I was one of the only projects that was there really for the culture. Yes. >> U we were building archiving systems for NFTs starting with the assumption that they're digital cultural objects. So we were really cultural. >> So all of these museums also started calling me >> to have me on panels and I was in a panel with our at art vessel. And so being part of those conversations while being a founder and it was it was just so electric. It was amazing. I felt I was the moment and I'm like what?

Yeah. And then I I also started dating this artist that was one of the main voices in the intersection between technology and arts. So I was like okay I'm I'm I'm really and I and I had money. I had money, you know, so I was like, >> "Yes, >> MP is on riding the wave." Like >> I was mentioning that I roundt tripped. So So I don't have money anymore. >> Just if anybody is wondering. Yeah. >> Yeah. I don't have money anymore. But yeah, all of these things and you know, >> were just clicking.

>> Yeah. I was also blonde. So I was blonde >> 2021. MP of 2021, >> money, >> business guy, >> New York, >> everything. >> Everything. Wow. Okay. Okay. So, that felt amazing. That felt Did you feel with like that year that all of those times where you hadn't been valued for what you did and what you knew and all of that, did you feel like at some level vindicated for all of that >> Um, >> or did you not even think about it? No, I'm petty.

Of course I did. Yeah. And it was fun, but I also felt I also felt super super overwhelmed and grateful because >> Yeah. Just and I'm proud of myself because Yeah. I didn't have a seat at the table until I created one back then. >> So, it was mostly about just enjoying the things that I actually grew for myself. >> Yes. And that's actually to your point the gratitude thing. It feels so good when it wasn't handed to you and you didn't kind of have like smooth access to it. You actually built it and you grew it and here it is

now. What? So after this high and all of this you the project was around for two years two and a half >> almost three years >> almost three years >> what was the decision to spin it down how did that feel and again with I don't know did you have a sense of responsibility for the community that you had built was it a sense of disappoint appointment. Was it a sense of loss for you having to spin it down?

>> So, basically the market killed us. >> Yep. >> 2022 was devastating. >> Yep. >> For everyone. >> For everyone. >> Um really um all of my values and my foundation were tested with all the disasters of um three arrows and FTX. Obviously FTX for a person that has been there around DeFi summer. >> Yep. was huge because Sam was around us farming >> around us, you know, he was just one of us. He was dark and I wouldn't be like I I didn't know him personally, but he was the part of the community.

>> So, all of that was just disgusting. >> I remember having to give a talk at an art institution and try to sell blockchain and I don't exploding. I I remember the the spaces with this Mario and Nafal. They were all exploding and revealing all of this crime >> and I like I literally went to the bathroom like okay like I do you know the the meme with the clown face. Okay. I felt like that. I felt that I was painting a clown face u and then going to a stage and talking and I I was like, "Yeah, is this all worth fighting for if all of these crooks are just >> doing this shit?"

>> Yeah. Is it is it really worth it? Was it ever really real? And that took my business as well. >> Yep. >> Down. We couldn't really um do anything for it. No. Um and I think we also reached a point where u you know the product wasn't growing. Uh we had about 300 community members. >> Best 300 people in the world. 600 60 users. Incredible. I I had some of them in my wedding because I actually like them and they're my friends.

>> Yes. >> Uh >> but but yeah, that's not enough for a product and we had a responsibility with our VCs as well. >> Yes. So we winded down the company and we returned most of the money. >> Okay. >> And that was that was it. But it was it was so painful because first of all I'm no I'm I'm not really young. >> So that was coinciding also with my wedding. Um and that was coinciding with I think it I was 37 at the time 39 going on 40.

>> Yeah. And I was like, if I'm not a founder, then am I being forced by life to have children now? >> And I was ready also. >> Okay. >> You know, I was like, I really wanted to keep going. Yes. >> Everything was telling me >> actually you can't >> you can't. >> So need dealing with that was like, >> oh my god. Like yeah, I hate everything. What I mean, but that's a very real feeling of to your point, not only losing your project that you obviously put your heart in, your energy in your linked your identity to for that period

of time, but also was there that disillusionment with the industry and also a time in your life where you were like, what the hell are we doing here? What am I doing next? What is what's the path? Do you feel like the path was clear up until that point and now the path was a bit like what the >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That was exactly it. And the main thing is that I had so much energy. >> Yes. And where does it go? What do you do with it? >> Yeah. And I had energy for for this industry.

>> Yes. >> That was the energy that I had. I I didn't have energy to to do something else to people to AI. I didn't have you know I just wanted to keep contributing. >> Yes. >> And I didn't have a shift to contribute to. >> Yes. Okay. >> Um also DoD was actually I had already um given it up. >> Yes. >> So I was like okay great. I left myself without anything here. >> Wow. And then came and I remember this distinctly after this and obviously after the time of all right everything's wound down we're moving on then being like why the hell what is

happening with recruiting in the space. >> Yeah. And why? And you had spoken about this before about not being technical in this space, but I think that was a little bit earlier. Yeah. >> In the crypto space, >> but you're always super outspoken and there's always that layer of humor and sarcasm in the way you communicate on Twitter in particular. But tell me what that felt like. Like what was that like after you've just co-ounded and had to kind of spin down the project that was the ven diagram of everything that you wanted and then find yourself in this situation.

>> Yeah, we we are reminiscing a lot. Actually, it was Tony Soprano that said that remember when is the lowest form of conversation. But I think I think we're getting somewhere. >> Okay, that look let's follow that thread. >> I like Tony, but I think he's wrong. He is one. >> So, we're going to continue reminiscing. >> That's why they stopped making the series. >> No, he died. >> I know. >> Yeah, it was horrible. I went to the hotel where he died. >> I'm a huge Sopranos fan. >> Okay. Okay.

That was like, yeah, he died. I went to the hotel. Okay. >> I'm huge. >> Okay. Okay. Okay. So, >> yeah. So, I had to go into the market and everyone was telling me, you know, I I did a lot. >> So, when you're winding down a company, yeah um >> it's the right thing to do. When you're returning the money, you are >> the best person in the world, >> right, >> for VCs, >> okay? >> You're inspirational. You're great. You're doing the right thing. And how great that you actually didn't spend all your money.

>> Okay. >> So, I was like, "Okay, all of these guys, they're encouraging me." And it felt it felt really good, you know. I would >> I would get on calls, they would off everyone would offer calls. Everyone was so helpful. Okay. >> Um >> and they would offer calls and then they would uh they would encourage me and it felt good and everyone would tell me that actually um I had so many possibilities. Okay. >> And that yeah because of this beautiful landing that was the right thing to do. >> Okay. >> I was just going to start working. But then I started applying through my network. Yes.

>> And I noticed that actually the jobs uh crypto was was at a confusing place and they were trying to validate themselves uh with very specific things. You know, everyone needed a a reason to exist. >> Yes. >> So I saw myself in interviews where first of all I had to explain >> my whole reason h my whole reason to be in crypto. Yes. I had to explain myself to people that actually knew have been working or knew me for ages >> that I've judged in hackathons.

>> Interesting. >> Yeah. That I've let into all of those vehicles that I've been creating and then apply for jobs which is absolutely what I wanted to do. I wanted to also feel that I could do it. >> Yes. >> Um so I started applying the normal way and also by some recommendations. >> Yes. But then I realized that yeah, all of these people hired people and then I had to just explain everything and then they were sending me assignments, unpaid assignments, too, which is never do unpaid assignments. Um, if you have a company, just don't do it. Pay the people that are doing your assignments because it's really really burns you out to apply for jobs. And I've never done

an assignment until then. >> Okay. So I had to do all of these assignments. Um I didn't really know how to um approach them because my approach to anything is from a generalist point of view. Um I was a founder and an operator. Uh I did communications because the companies needed it. I'm very I I respond to the project's needs. Yes. >> I I I am not really in like in one category. >> Yeah. And no one needed a journalist.

Journalists actually built crypto. >> Mhm. I agree. >> They did. Yeah. >> And now I didn't find a place because they were looking for all these highly specialized >> people bit. >> Yeah. And that also responds to a particular So when I studied communications Yes. >> in 20 I don't know in 25 in 20 Yeah. 2005. >> Um when I studied that I just started studied communications. Now people were studying >> uh digital marketing specialized on XY Z >> and of course they didn't have that knowledge but >> do they know how to bootstrap a project?

>> Do they know how to raise VC? Do they know how to also run communications and um launch a GTM just by with a newsletter? >> Um all of the things that you need to know as a founder. No, they didn't. >> Yeah. But I didn't there wasn't a space for me there. So that made me very sad and very angry. >> Yes. And also the fact that to your point you had gained all of this through actual practical experience >> and the fact that you didn't have to have the specialized degree. You knew all of this >> from experience with big projects and your own projects.

>> Yeah. And you can't be recruited as a founder, >> right? >> You know, you you can't be recruited as a Yeah. as a as an entrepreneur. >> Mhm. >> If if there's very specific cases where you can like if you're a VC or something then they're looking for that. But I also felt that people that were saying yeah we're looking for founders and then the company would be big corpo and you know you knew that they weren't looking for uh independently minded founders. >> Right. And that's a big difference. >> Yeah.

>> Right. Because you don't just want to go in there and be Yes. I will fold and bend to whatever it is that you do here. Right. >> Yeah. >> And then Okay. So, this made you angry and frustrated and then what was the way out? >> Oh, actually I've been friends with Stani. Yes. From a >> Yes. >> For a very long time since I think he supported what I do since 2018. Yeah. >> And he's always been there for every hackathon. Yes. Um so I knew all about a I I'm obviously an a user uh from before um from Ethand and um also Paris the VP

of marketing before she was VP of marketing she was at IDO. >> Mhm. >> So they were leading the round for JPEG. >> Okay. >> So then when she went to AB and Stani was in a and he also was an investor because he supported every single thing that I've ever done. Yes. which is amazing. >> Yes. >> And then they were like, why don't you come and work for us? And that was really straightforward. >> And that's and it made sense. >> Yes. >> You know, and I I got there and I I went straight to working 100 hours per per day like I like. Uh I went straight to doing everything. Yes.

>> And I went straight to just filling gaps in the company. So there was a space for a generalist like me and that was that was so powerful. Yes. >> Because no one else would give that to me. >> And that is how many years now? Three. >> Two. >> Only two. >> Yeah. >> Two years. Yes. I think I think that made so much sense when you then joined them. And to your point, it is that fit and it is that clicking straight away where you don't have to do the >> and it feels like you've been working there forever. Oh my god, you have been here for a month only.

>> See this what I mean. I'm like I feel like you've always after JPEG in my mind you were like straight but you were kind of straight in after JPEG. >> Yeah. Yeah. I didn't spend you know it it seems dramatic but I literally spent >> two weeks. I spent three three months unemployed and I was also planning my wedding at the time and I was also consulting for other companies. But for me to know have a like a thing you were like >> it was the hardest thing. >> I I cried every day. >> No, >> because I just didn't have a 100 times going on and I was like, "Oh my god, I just don't want to be girl that plans her wedding only. I want to be working.

>> But then you had the time, a little bit extra time to plan the wedding. >> I I didn't like to plan my wedding. >> You didn't like it? >> Okay, let's talk about the wedding. And now now you're a mom also >> starting a family. How has that changed? Has that changed your life? The way you look at things. Do you still work a 100 hours a day? >> No. It's pretty amazing. >> Okay. I I actually love being a mom. I've always liked babies. Okay. >> I I've also met a bunch of people here at CCC. They were like, "You didn't strike me for the motherhood kind." And I'm like, "What do you mean saying that to a woman?"

Oh my god. You know, I know I'm a little bit but come on. >> I'm a multi-layered, multifaceted person. I can be this and this. >> Yeah. You know, I'm just not just a giant You're a loving, caring, empathetic, >> sometimes person. But that's what it means. >> American. >> So, so the thing is that obviously I've always liked kids, but I met my husband >> at 35. Yes. 35, 36. I married at >> 37. So, I wasn't 38. Yeah. So, I wasn't

really sure I wanted to have kids because I didn't have first of all, I didn't have a person, >> right? >> Why would I marry this guy from Berlin that's polyamorous and being gross? >> Yes. >> Because Berlin's dating offering is also horrible. >> So, there's reasons for all of these. >> So, I wouldn't I wouldn't have never trusted someone. >> Okay. Yes. >> With, you know, Yeah. starting a family with until I felt it was right. And that was at 38 actually. >> Yeah.

>> Once I was married and everything else. >> Okay. Yes. >> So, >> and then it made sense. >> Yeah. And then Yeah. got pregnant at 38. So, it's not that >> I needed a lot of time to think. It was just about >> feeling safe. Yes. >> You know, I Yeah. I also really wanted to um have a home before. >> Yes. >> Having thinking of having children. Yes. And I wanted to have a career and I wanted to have a stable person in my life. >> Yes. >> And so yeah, it's it's all about those things. I I can't just >> do it randomly.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Marry a high school sweetheart. >> No. No. >> And I'm I'm honestly really enjoying it. And the thing about becoming a mom, >> I I've been I I've just been in this new title for 3 months. >> Correct. >> Yes. She's very little >> and also that's the time it took for you to register her in Germany. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> So the thing is that it's really cool because things don't matter anymore. >> Okay.

>> Like things are not that important anymore. >> Okay. >> You know when there's a drama on Twitter I could I was like okay guys this is really important. I need to stay glued to my keyboard all day. >> Okay. And now I'm like this is happening. Okay. Not my circus, not my monkeys. Not my monkeys, not my circus. >> Yes. Yes. >> And it's it it feels really good because crypto is like has grown so much. So it's really not monkey. >> There's so much noise.

>> Yeah. We were 20 people when when we first started working here. >> U it's expanded. It's time for us also. I think it's really healthy when we realize that we can't hold on to being OG's or we can't hold on to um to Yeah. This is not what it used to be. It's a good thing that it's not what it used to be. Crypto needs to grow. Yeah. And to your point there, I think the evolution of us all right in the past nine years. It's who we were when we started is definitely not I mean to a certain extent we are at the core who we were.

But I like the fact that I've changed. I like the fact that I now give attention to certain things and not to others. I like the fact that I am maybe wiser. And to your point, the evolution of the space will also do that. It will go this way and that way and some things will fall away. >> What do you feel are the biggest differences between who you are now >> Mhm. >> and who you were 10 years ago, 9 years ago? What are some things that have absolutely changed?

>> I have less meltdowns on Twitter. >> Okay. Okay. That's amazing. I'm also not getting in on every fight. You don't see me in the replies. >> I do not see you in the replies. Mainly because I've been off Twitter for about a year and had to come back for this podcast. But >> people don't see me on the replies. >> It's true. >> Very few very few times. >> Okay. Why do you think that is? Is it just because you're prioritizing your time better or like you're thinking it's not that important? I think when when you're growing and you become part of an industry like this one, which is already a full-time job and crypto becomes your personality, >> then you feel inclined to defend it

because it's like you're defending yourself. >> Yes. >> And I'm a bit feisty. >> Yes. >> U so >> we know this about you. >> Yeah. And I I have a lot of like I I used to have a lot of time and like I said, I had infinite energy for crypto because it's my thing. I still believe that it can fix things. Um, I still believe that it can make things like my country a lot better. >> And it has made people's lives better in Argentina and the rest of Latin America. Hey Austin.

People walking around. It's nice. Uh, so I had Yeah. For me it was it was like I felt that I was attacked. Yeah. >> When crypto >> So you took it personally. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And now I realized that Yeah. Back then we were a lot of we were just a few people to defend crypto. Right now crypto doesn't need anymore advocates and lawyers or it needs better ones. >> Okay. or and I I don't have the energy to defend an industry where part of the industry is actually not people I identify with anymore and not not causes that I identify with anymore and then

the rest is actually us and how we've changed or do you mean us in what way? >> Just yeah the people that are there for the technology or the principles or what not. >> Yes. And I think it's useless to to keep advocating from from that perspective. I think it's more useful for me to be advocating from the perspective of you know I'm working now at a vehicle that has a really really good shot >> to transform finance.

>> Okay. >> And this is how I win. So >> putting energy towards that versus >> if me fighting on Twitter >> Yeah. is not good for business. Yes. >> Then I'm not going to do it. >> Okay. Okay. Whereas before maybe you would have or you wouldn't have cared that much. >> I I was less strategic I think. >> Right. Okay. Yeah. >> Okay. Um one thing that I ask is is there anything that you have not said publicly? You've said a lot of things publicly, so I don't know if there's any, but like if there's anything that you haven't kind of you've thought about it but haven't shared, it can be anything.

>> Um, just anything whether it's about the industry, whether it's about your journey, whether it's about a thought that you've just had. >> Sure. If I'm quitting crypto, which will happen eventually. >> Yes. Uh because like I said, I love to change and I want to live many lives. >> Yes. >> Um I'm likely going to open a vintage shop. >> Okay. Love it. What's the address? Will it be in Berlin? >> If I'm still living in Berlin, then yes. >> Then yes. Okay. So that's potentially the next chapter. When and if >> Yeah.

>> Okay. Do you have a name for >> unnecessary knowledge about fashion? >> Okay. >> Especially from the '9s because I'm a ' 90s kid. >> Yes. So, I think I would like to put it to use. And again, I've never had an entry in fashion, so I might as well start my own thing. >> Create it. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Do you have a name for it yet? >> No. >> No. Okay. That will come. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Okay. >> Um, final thing. Is there anything that still inspires you about this space? Like until you leave for whatever next chapter for the vintage um shop queen.

>> Vintage shop. Um, the vintage shop emporium, what still inspires you? >> I think the fact that it's actually changing finance. >> Okay. >> And it's, you know, and finance is the big Trojan horse we have towards better systems as a whole in the world. Yeah. >> It's huge and it's really inspirational and I really want to keep contributing. >> Okay. >> Amazing. >> Thank you so much. >> Thank you >> for doing this. Thank you for being here. I'm glad. >> Yeah.

>> Did it feel good? I know we were like reminiscing and reminiscing, but I kind of wanted to get the feel for what the journey was like for you. >> No, I like I I really loved it. Yeah, >> I'm glad. >> And yeah, it's always fun to talk to you. Thank you a