The Next Wave of DeFi: Portfolio Automation with Glider.fi

Transcript

GMGM, welcome to what's going to be another fantastic episode of Devantel. So, if you didn't know, Devontel is a 30-minute podcast held every week allowing founders, hackers, and anyone in between an opportunity to come on the show and showcase what they built. And today, I'm ecstatic to welcome Brian Hong, who is the co-founder and CEO of Glider. So, if you didn't know, Glider is a unified platform that gives you control, clarity, and and speed to design and manage automated portfolios without compromise. So, if you stick around for today's episode, you'll get to meet Brian, learn about Glider, get a peek at some of the latest alpha on the platform, and learn how you can get started with it today. All right, let's get into it. [music] >> GMG, welcome to the show, Brian. I'm

really happy to have you on here today, man. >> Happy to be here. Thanks for uh thanks for having me. >> Of course. Of course. Uh yeah, Glider. Uh I know I know Glider uh pretty well. Um and yes [laughter] and uh I'm excited to uh have our audience here who might not be familiar uh get familiar with it as well. But before we get into that, um would you just like to give a brief introduction about yourself? >> Yeah, for sure. Um so my name is Brian Hang. I am the co-founder of a glider and um my career has really spanned from what I would call as like the most boring traditional finance you could

imagine into now DeFi and literally everything in between. Um I started trading bonds um at Morgan Stanley back in the day almost a decade ago at this point which is pretty crazy. um pretty quickly realized like that was not the future um and moved over to a trading firm called XTX Markets. XTX trades every liquid market around the world um including a little bit of crypto um and had an excellent time there. Was much more tech forward. Um I had worked at some trading firms in my time during college. Um I went to MIT back in the day and so uh lots of my friends had worked at trading firms as well and you

know they heavily recruit from there. Um and then um you know it came to co really and I had always been using crypto and we can sort of talk about maybe backstory of how I got into crypto but um I'd always been using crypto behind the scenes and like co sort of pushed me to the point where it's like okay maybe I don't want to trade uh and do high frequency trading for the rest of my life and maybe I actually want to build something for the world and so I joined Anchorage. Anchorage is a big institutional custodian. They hold funds for all the biggest VCs in the world, hedge funds, corporations, sovereign wealth funds, like you name it. And they hired me to build out their trading

platform. So built out the product there. Um had a really great time, you know, sort of moving from trading finance into u what was then a pretty late stage startup. Um and spent about two and a half years there. Um and was introduced to my co-founder John Um, and the rest is history. So, we've been working on Glider for almost a year and a half now. Um, and we're really excited to uh continue building into the next couple months and years.

>> That That's amazing. Uh, I didn't realize uh Glider was so young. Um, but I guess in crypto years a year is like four years or or what have you, right? So [laughter] >> it feels like a million things have happened since we started Glider. Um, I met John last July and then we said we would do this thing in think September of last year. So, not even a year and a half. And I mean, I can't even like name the million different trends we've had in that like obviously like perpetuals was a huge thing and um, still is a huge thing of course. And then we have any number of like social apps that came and went and trends related to that. We had trading cards. we had, you know, October 10th like meltdown of liquidations. Like

I'm sure I'm missing like 50 different things. I'm very active on X if you guys are not following me on X and so I' I've probably commented on a lot of the different metas in the time. So yeah, it's been a bit >> It's never It's never a dull day. There's always something going on in a given week, given day. Um, just on the timeline today, I saw some spicy takes from the Salana folks. So, uh, yeah, there's always something. Um but yeah, so I guess um so with all of this um experience that you kind of built up um earlier in your career and into your experience with Anchorage and then meeting John, I guess along the way um

you mentioned that um you're you're into crypto trading trading coins and whatnot. Um, and during that experience, I'm sure you found a lot of um a lot of a lot of the the the quote unquote um fun parts of DeFi. Um, and I mean, let's let's not let's not kid ourselves. I mean, it's like beyond just buying your first set of SATs or ETH or or Salana, like it's quite hard taking that next step. um after that in the DeFi space like in your opinion like what are some of the the biggest problems um just preventing people from from exploring DeFi any further than than just buying

their first Bitcoin say >> yeah we think about this all the time um like how can we lower the barrier of entry for people to participate in being on chain and doing things that we think are really cool things you can't do offchain um and so like of course there are the centralized exchanges of the world where you can go and buy things. They're they're great, but we're we're mainly interested in decentralized systems and and DeFi in particular. So, um there's so many things. Uh where should we start? So, um you know, one of the things that we think a lot about is like what is your first taste of crypto and like how how do you get into it? You know, we saw a really big pump in retail

coming into trade crypto and get into crypto. um with the Trump immune coin. Now, you know, we can say whatever he wants and there's many opinions on whether that was good or bad for the industry, but um there's never been that surge of retail interest in doing something on chain before. That that really was the the first major sign that there were going to be changes in not only crypto regulation from the administration, but also um how people think about and are willing to get involved with crypto. Um, but you'll notice with that that a lot of people did not go through a wallet, right? They downloaded Moonshot and they did it that way. And so

that's what we think a lot about like, okay, how how do people actually get involved with mostly we think about investing? There's plenty of places to go trade memes. Glider is very focused on investing but um and how can we make that feel very web two like um and so what does that mean? That means anything that we can hide and abstract away from the user we should right in so far that it's not relevant to you. So, um, gas is a big one, right? Gas is something that I think all of us have had headaches with when we are dealing with multiple chains or you run out of gas or any number of problems.

You're bridging, who knows? Um, and so we pay for everybody's gas and we abstract that away. We think everybody should be doing this. If you're not using an app that's paying for your gas, they should be. They're they're in 2021 and, you know, it's 2026 now. So um it's time um the idea that people should have to think about networks also not important right if you want to invest in an assets on base or salana or mainet you shouldn't really care about the network it's on um people might disagree with that who are quite tribal today in terms of like where they think the token should be but um as an investor it it shouldn't matter um and

so as much as we can abstract from that is important and then of course the movements between those. So, um, bridging itself is is not something that anybody should ever have to know what it is. And, um, you know, there's many parallels to this. Like I I've said in the past, like when you use an oven, you don't need to know how the oven actually works, right? You just turn the knob. Um, Brian Armstrong put out something recently that was along the similar lines of like like when you turn on your microwave, you know? I don't think it was microwave, but he he had his own and it was literally the same exact thing.

Like people just want to do certain things and if we can make those things easier for people then uh we'll build it. Like that's that's the whole purpose. [snorts] >> Absolutely. Absolutely. And yeah, I mean like even as you were kind of given that example like example of like just stock trading came to my head. It's like when I when I want to go buy a stock, right, I don't care if that stock is on the New York Stock Exchange or the NASDAQ. I just want to buy the stock, right? It's like [laughter] >> Exactly. >> Yeah. And it's it's the same same idea.

>> And um Yes. And I guess through all these pains that you just described, um I'm sure a lot of these built up and resulted in what Glider is today and probably um still things yet to be built um in your Northstar vision. Uh just what's what's your elevator pitch of uh of Glider? Yeah. So, Glider is the best platform to manage and control and access your long-term vision of of onchain wealth. And so, we believe that, you know, there is going to be a bit of a segregation

between how and what you do with your assets on chain, right? We don't believe that people will have individual wallets. they will have multiple wallets and you will have you know your day in dayout wallet and then you will have your investment account. Um we also firmly believe that all assets are coming on chain. So stocks, you're already seeing it with it. RWAS are are slowly picking up and I shouldn't even say slowly quickly picking up at this point. And you know, we'll have credits and we'll have bonds and we'll have all these other things that are um hopefully permissionless on chain. And that to us is way more exciting than the investable crypto market. Um there's plenty of

places to go and trade memes or creator coins or you name it. Like go have fun. um there's real stuff coming on chain and there's no good way to manage that stuff today. And so Glider is that place where you can manage your onchain stocks, RWAS, you know, you name it. Um in what feels like a very calm but also sophisticated application. So you know, if you wanted a oneliner, it's like Fidelity onchain, but we do things that Fidelity can't do or things that Robin Hood or Coinbase can't do, right?

because we have onchain capabilities which lend themselves to novel user experiences that you know the normal user is not used to. uh and with those novel experiences they should be able to have better control of their wealth and also earn more in the long run right whether it's through lending staking or anything that you can do on chain so it's a little bit about glider um but we can definitely unpack that some more >> of course and yeah uh well well said uh yeah I I I know you got um a nice little walkthrough you want to give us on glider but just um kind of circling back to earlier when you mentioned how you met John um just not not so long ago. I just curious to double click into the

story there. Um like was it kind of like at a hackathon or or some sort of um um crypto event that you guys met and had this idea together or Yeah. Like how did how did Glider come to be? What's the origin story? >> Yeah, I I wish it was that spontaneous. It was it was definitely spontaneous, but it wasn't like a oh man, we met and that was it. We we decided we were going to do this thing. Um, no. So, um, John prior to Glider was part of a VC firm, um, called Anagram, which he still, um, you know, heavily advises at times. Um, and, uh, prior to that, John had built and led uh, Matcha.xyz, so at zerox, the one of the really first

consumer dex aggregators ever, which is pretty cool. He was the founding engineer of that. Um, and so while John was doing that, I was in high frequency trading worlds and um, the uh, recruiter from Anagram reached out to me and he also does a lot of recruiting for high frequency trading and said, "Hey, like let's like get to know each other. You know, maybe you'll want to roll down the uh, down the line." And so we chatted. I wasn't looking for a role. And that was like 2020. That was a long time ago. Um, and like fast forward two years later, I was at Anchorage. He like reached out again. He was like, "Hey, like saw you're at Anchorage now. Like, you know,

maybe now is a good time to think about roles." And I was like, "No, I'm like not that interested right now." I've been in Anchorage for a year. I was like, "No, like I already made the big shift from trading to to product." And so, um, and then he finally reached out again, third time. This is now like five years in the making, okay? and he said, "Look, you should meet this guy, John. He has a really good idea. We think you two are really complimentary in terms of skill sets. Like, if not, like, you know, at this point, I was I was like, "Okay, maybe I'll start to look for roles." I've been in Anchorage for over two years. Like, we could explore. And he said, "Um, if not, we'll connect you with a like a port and you can go, you know, do product or run product there."

And so, I met John and uh yeah, I was sold. I mean I I had been in DeFi for a very long time and you know like all of the visions that he said and the problems that he brought up I was like yeah like we can solve this. Um I felt very comfortable taking the lead on the the product we can call it non-technical side although you know I consider myself fairly technical so I don't like that term. Um and John can lead the technical side of the house and so that's the way we've set it up. um you know I do like product design uh marketing and BD oversee that we have you know a team now and John leads you know our excellent team of engineers who are who are

building everything um that you guys see in the app today >> that's that's pretty sweet so it was like third times the charm and >> third time five years a long time I I didn't realize it was the the gang at anagram that uh that brought you two together that's pretty >> [laughter] >> Um yeah and and you guys have built um quite amazing product um that I think is this is a good segue to kind of get into all all the things Glider. Um >> so uh I'll bring your screen on uh on the stage and you can give us the uh tour of all things Glider.

>> Yeah. >> So this is Glider. Um you can go to glider.fi FI and uh join the app right now. You can loging in with an email or a wallet if you have a wallet. Um and it should look and feel very much like your traditional investment platform. And so you know in the middle here we've got uh you know my total value in these portfolios and it over time. And um if I scroll down you have a list of my what we call portfolios at Glider. And so can show you a very simple one. So this is the remake of the Bitwise crypto 10. And so I am holding 10 assets. These are all

the biggest assets. So ETH, Solana, Suite, Coin, uh, Litecoin, a whole bunch of them. And, uh, I'm holding them in like what looks like an ETF. And so um what Glider will do is it will rebalance this portfolio at any period of your choice. So this could be every hour, it could be every week, it could be every month, you name it. And it does this all autonomously. So you know, you don't have to think about signing or gas or bridging or anything that typically plagues uh DeFi. Um and yeah, as I mentioned before, we pay for all of your gas. So, you can see here like I've actually saved $557 uh on gas myself um for not having to do

this myself and letting Glider run it for me. Um and so with Glider, you can build out ETFs. We have this builder. I don't want to go too much into this because I know it's a little bit complicated, but we have this builder where you can add assets to your ETF and customize it. You've probably seen this in like some of these more modern financial management systems on the uh like web two side or like traditional [clears throat] brokerage accounts. So like you can create your own custom ETF. What's incredibly unique about Glider and why it's so important to be on chain, this is like really really important, is that you own these assets.

And so you have direct custody of all of the assets that you see here. Glider does not create vaults. Glider does not wrap these into an ETF token. There are a lot of problems with doing those two things that we think are really important to uh not go down that path. And so when you ever trade into these, you're actually trading on the underlying liquidity of the tokens. And so there's no ETF token that has like no liquidity. It's no, you you own the actual underlying. But more importantly, when you own the underlying token, you can do things with your tokens, right?

When you own an ETF, you don't get the voting rights of that ETF. You don't get to like buy and sell to tax optimize. you don't get like all of the dividends of depending on the ETF of those underlying shares or any of the benefits of ownership like you know this is a wild example but like if you have a gold ETF you don't actually get to like hold the gold right like you just have a wrapper around it and so we don't believe in rappers because now you're in a world where you can actually non-custodially own all of your assets yourself and then do things with your assets and so on Glider you can lend and you can stake and you can participate in governance, you can claim airdrops, anything you would normally get with your assets, you get them

still, which is really really important. Um, and so that's that's more or less glider in a nutshell. Um, I'll let you guys explore the rest. We've got, you know, some sharability of these portfolios as well. So you can share with friends, they can copy, they can remix, they can change them up. Um, and we have a lot of stuff that's coming very soon, too. So the app might look a little bit different. um depending on when you're watching this but just know that uh this app is uh really in flux and I think we are seeing what will be the future of investing on chain and then again as I said this before like giving you those powers that you have onchain that you don't have offchain

that's what's critical to us >> absolutely absolutely and uh if I understand correctly um what you were showcasing facing was the EVM side, but you guys recently uh also launched Salana support. Um did you want to briefly just uh touch on that as well? >> Yeah, so we're on a couple chains right now. Um Bass and Salana as well as Plume. Um we'll be adding more chains over time and eventually we should be making everything very seamlessly crosschain. So that's coming. um something that we get asked a lot about and uh yeah, we're uh we're pretty excited. We're pretty excited. We we

have the team. It's more about like prioritizing how much we can do, when we can do it. Um and then we're also um we're also hiring. So, if you're listening to this and you want to join the team, um you know, we're a very small team right now. There's four engineers, one of which is my co-founder. You would be the fifth. And uh yeah, it's uh it's an exciting time to be building onchain and building real things on chain like real consumer applications that have um in our case we've been very lucky to have now over 80,000 users um who have logged in and and validated through their privy and so uh that's growing. 100,000 is the next

milestone. Very excited for that. And uh yeah, it's uh it's just early days and there's so much to do and it's h I I can't even like go through the full list. We have so much we want to do. So >> yeah, 100% 100%. And yeah, you you beat me to it. I was going to I was ask going to ask you to plug in the um the the open role you were looking for. That's good. You you beat me to it. Um and I guess um sticking to the developer side of things. >> Um so obviously this is the the consumer side. Um but as I understand you guys also have uh a neat set of APIs and SDKs available for developers to start messing around um with Glider as well.

Um could you touch on that and what's available for for devs to use? >> For sure. Yeah. Um so one yeah I I'll talk about the APIs and SDKs that you guys can get access to and the use cases that we think are are cool for that. Um, but also, um, we can also dive deeper into the tech here too if you're curious. We could touch on that later because I hand wavy, you know, didn't explain how all this stuff is actually working. We can definitely dive into that if you guys want. Um, but um, so there's there's sort of two cases for the glider API. Like if you want to come in and create portfolios programmatically and update those portfolios based off of maybe you have external data or

something like that, you can do that through API and uh use Glider in that way, right? So you don't have to use the front end to create and build and deposit and do all those things like it it's all accessible u via code. On top of that, we've started to work with a handful of integrators who want to build portfolios into their applications. And this is interesting because we see a lot of people doing automated investing in the traditional fintech space. And we think that's an interesting angle for web 3. And so what this looks like is you can curate a portfolio like one of the ones I showed you and you can offer

it to all of your users in a B2B TOC fashion. And it's relatively straightforward. It works with pretty much any asset uh any rather any wallet uh like configuration uh or architecture that you have. And um yeah, that's that's the beginning. We'll have a couple um early integrations that we'll announce at some point in the coming months. Um and we think B2B TOC is really interesting. It's also a great way to monetize as well if you want to uh look for new ways to monetize your app. Um, and so whether you're building like a savings app or you're building a launchpad or you're building a wallet or really you name it or even if you're

just a token issuer like maybe you're building liquid staking tokens and you're like hm I should just make a portfolio of my liquid staking token and maybe throw in Salana there too and you know people want more ways to get diversified exposure and your token just happens to be in there you know um there's cool ways that uh we think this can be used and uh we we've even heard sort of exotic cases too where you know somebody came to us and said like hey I'm tokenizing songs I want to put a bunch of songs together in what looks like an ETF and uh call it a playlist and you know like as long as it's onchain that should be doable right like we have to figure out the logistics of

like where is the liquidity and how can I route or how can glider route to that liquidity but uh that's the cool part about being on chain right You don't have to come in and be like, "Oh, we've got to do like a full-on integration with like Coinbase or Robin Hood or like Fidelity and like pull in all this information about the user and like and like move money between these like old like rails like no like it's it's all seamlessly moving through a centralized or rather decentralized ledger [laughter and gasps] um for everyone to participate in publicly. Yeah.

>> Fascinating. Yeah. like the the um portfolio of um music is is interesting. I'd be I'd be keen to to see see that kind of come to fruition. And um yeah, yeah, we we'll see. I I mean uh we've seen at least I remember in 2021 or 2022 there was this big hot scene of like u music NFTTS. So maybe they make a resurgence here. Um, and you mentioned it just before getting into the developer side. Um, I'd be curious to hear like if you can share what the um the secret sauce is behind the rebalancing because that's um as far as I understand the real magic behind um uh

glider. So if you can >> yeah maybe uh deep dive a little bit on that. >> Yeah. Um so let me let me start with the wallet because I think the wallet is interesting to understand first. So for every portfolio that you ever create on Glider, uh that portfolio has its own set of wallets. So like let me let load this for a second. We hide them away because we don't think it's that important, but if you wanted to see them, they're here. Um so this is a set of wallets. They're non-custodial accounted wallets. Uh it's the same thing on the Solana side as well. And uh these wallets are fully non-commd meaning every portfolio gets their own set. If somebody copies your portfolio,

they also get their own set of uh of wallets, which is also very different from a vault. There's no honeypot risk. Like there's no one smart contract holding, you know, $50 million. It's all segregated across all of your wallets that are only protected by your seed phrase. very important like security consideration that um we think is valuable and a lot of people are curious to know. After that, what happens is when you create a portfolio, you sign for Glider's agent, we can call it, to be able to operate on your behalf with a slim set of permissions. And those permissions being uh essentially trade whatever is in your portfolio,

where can it route those? And uh in the case if we take fees, take fees. Um that might be relevant to you if you're doing B2B TOC. Um, and so that agent has a limited set of permissions on things that it can do on this wallet. It cannot move funds anywhere else besides the wallet you have connected to Glider. That's the important part. Um, and the fee wallet. So those are the two things. Um, so like it's not like it can just suddenly move your funds to like some random person. It it can't do that which is very important. Um, and then behind the scenes like uh we run what look like cron jobs. these cron jobs run in this case every hour on this portfolio. We've

got millions at this point of cron jobs running and um there's been a lot of work to uh build that system and scale it given the size that it's already at and how big it will get. Um and then you know when the crown job kicks off we evaluate whether or not your portfolio has to be rebalanced. If it does, you know, we come in, we find the best liquidity, we put those trades on chain, and then you're good to go. And then it goes back to sleep, wakes up an hour later or every week or every month or whatever and says, "Oh, do I need to rebalance? Do I need to do anything?"

And it does that. Um, so that's the setup today. Um, we will be offering what we call triggers at some point in the future where it's not cron job based, but it's more actionbased. So like Bitcoin hit 120K, I want to do X, Y, and Z. We should allow for that without you having to wait, you know, top of the hour for the rebalance to occur. Um, and so we've built this really cool, you know, you might want to call it like a state system, right? where it says I have started point A, I need to get to point B. You know, whatever triggers or time has elapsed and I need to figure out how to go from A to B. That's the magic of Glider magic. Like we figure out how to go from A to B without you having to figure out

how um and know that we have your uh best interest um aligned. Um so it is quite centralized today. I will say that there is a path to decentralization um that we can get to and um that'll take time. I think all the best startups start centralized and then you know A16Z calls this progressive decentralization. Um, so we'll get there. But, uh, you know, for the vast majority of the real world, I say real world meaning not crypto natives, uh, they couldn't tell you what decentralization even means.

And so, yeah, there there's a lot we have explored on that front and it'll take time to get there, but given the size of the team and priorities like we think we can add a lot more value other places first. >> Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And uh yeah, thank thank you for that great thorough explanation um of of how things work here. Uh as we're kind of coming to time, uh I want to get a couple more thoughts um uh answered uh from you. Uh so um you you touched on it uh throughout our conversation actually, but um I guess concretely like what what's your like northstar vision for for Glider and and what you think it has

the potential to become um like 5 years, 10 years, x amount of years uh down the line. >> Yeah. So there's sort of three core tenants that we run on right now. one assets are coming onchain and so if you're not building for an onchain future which a lot of these traditional fintexs aren't in our view um you're going to be replaced so that's really important assets are coming onchain uh two the tools that we have today are not good enough don't feel web two enough aren't accessible enough um to manage those assets and so how can you do that? How can you manage them? How

can you do things that you traditionally couldn't do offchain onchain? And then the last part about this, which we will get to, is how does AI play a role in this? And I don't want this to be handwavy, but I'm not going to go into our whole thing about where we think AI plays a role in DeFi. Um, John and I are actually writing a piece right now that's quite lengthy and will be shared with uh VCs and and publicly around defining AI's role in DeFi. But um we think we have a really strong opinion on how this looks. We're seeing it in web 2. Um I've got my dog back here. Uh we're seeing it in web 2 and um what web 2 is lacking is everything that comes

with being onchain, right? Atomic settlements, um asset utility, lending, things like that that we think are incredibly unique to being on chain. And so we're solving for those three things. And that's the world we envision. And I don't think anybody else that we've seen is really building towards that in the way that we think we are. Um yeah, I mean again it goes back to like one liner fidelity onchain but with the powers of onchain crypto. Um and truly managing your wealth and growing your wealth uh onchain. We aren't building a casino. We're building an investment platform.

is very clear in the things that we, you know, try to promote or feature like onchain stocks and RWAs and like real things that people want, not your like peanut fartcoin, you know, cat with a hat like meme coins. Um, there's places for that. again, you can go have fun there. But there there is real stuff that we think can really democratize access to wealth management and uh have cool features that you couldn't have offchain. So that's all we think about. That's what we're driving towards and uh I think we'll get there actually fairly soon. I think there's there's a lot that we are really excited to push

out. [snorts] >> Amazing. Yes. And uh I'm excited for our audience to also have a chance to start to play around with Glider if they haven't already. Um again uh you mentioned it earlier in the in our convo, but what's the best way for folks to start um messing around with Glider? >> Yeah, so we're fully live on Solana Base and Plume. Go to glider.fi. You can connect either a Solana wallet or a EVM wallet. You can loging in with email if you want or X or any type of login. Um, if you have money on chain already, that's great. You can just deposit it in, create a portfolio, and you're good to go. If you don't have money on chain, we offer a number of

on-ramps around the world. So, hopefully one of them works. If it doesn't, just ping us. We'll try to find an on-ramp that works for you. So, you can use a debit card or bank transfer or PayPal or Revolute or all those ones that I named we already have. So, hopefully one of those works. Um, and what I will say is next week we have something really interesting coming out for Glider. I won't divulge more here, but um, the product will get incredibly, I would say, even easier to use than it already is, and we're really excited about what next week entails. So, keep your eyes peeled for next week. Um, and yeah, give it a try. Give it a try. We would love feedback. It's still early days. Um, we

have a little feedback button on the bottom left of the app. So, um if you do have comments, uh bugs, praise, like anything like that, we are constantly reading it. I get every email that gets submitted through the app, so I respond to a lot of them, too. Um yeah, just uh just give us some more ideas like what what do you guys want to see? And that's really important to us. >> I I love that. Love that. And uh yeah, you heard it here. Some alpha alpha on the way next week. So, uh, definitely want to stay tuned for that. And, uh, uh, just before we, uh, let you go, Brian, I know you're super busy. Um, for the aspiring founders, uh, or founders to be that might be watching today,

like, um, from your experience with, um, starting up Glider, like what would be a key piece of advice um, you you'd give to them? >> Yeah, I think the one thing that I've really leaned in on now is focus. Um, early glider was a lot of exploration, which I think is important. You definitely want to explore. Um, but when it comes time to doing things and trying things, do them quickly and do them very quickly. And if they work, they work. Push forward more with that. If they don't work, you got to try something new fast, right? Um, cut out all distractions. So like yes,

there's a million things to explore, a million different B2B TOC integrations we could do, but you only have so much time in the day. And so being incredibly focused on what you want to do is really important. Um, you know, I think at times um you might have to ignore messages and those messages just are noise in the thing that you're trying to deliver, the mission that you're trying to drive. And you know, it's I don't like to come off as rude and I don't think I do, but you know, you have to recognize that you only have so much time in the day and if you want to get what you want to get done, you need to be incredibly mission driven. And so that's not something I sort of thought too much about in my

early days, uh, you know, shaping Glider, but we've gotten to the point now where there's so much going on. So so much going on, and you're going to be pulled in a million different directions. focus on what you really need to get done and the other distractions you'll have to nicely put aside. Yeah. [snorts] >> Yeah. I I love that. That that's so that's so true. Like if you start to diverge and um lose sight of um the finish line with distractions like yeah, somebody else is going to eat your lunch. Um so uh yeah, very well said. Um and with that uh unfortunately we we've come to time. Uh Brian, thank you again so much for taking the time out of your

day to come chat with us. Um Glider looks really amazing. And uh audience, if you're watching today, uh give it a go. Um you're you're in for some alpha next week. Uh so uh no no better time to get started with that today. >> Thanks, guys. >> And with that, uh just want to wish everybody a happy Wednesday. Uh happy rest of the week, wherever you may be. And we'll catch you back here next week for another great episode of D and Tell. Till then, have a good one, folks.