Monad, BSC, MetaDAO, and More | Livestream

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What's up, guys? Just wanted to give a quick shout out to today's sponsor, Apptos. We'll hear more about how Bitcoin, DeFi, and Apptos is heating up later today, but for now, let's get into the episode. Nothing said on Xerox Research is a recommendation to buy or sell securities or tokens. This podcast is forformational purposes only, and any views expressed by anyone on the show are solely our opinions, not financial advice. Pocachio, Ryan, and our guests may hold positions in the company's, funds, or projects discussed. Hey, what's up? Welcome back everybody. It's a wonderful, beautiful Friday on the Zerx Research live stream. I'm joined today by my co-host Picacio, the one and only Bacio. Triple Pacio, Salv Pacio,

all the other names. >> I think those are the only two. I hate that one. >> I hate the other few. >> Hey, how you doing? >> Uh, I'm doing good. Uh, >> I haven't chatted with you for a bit. >> You missed uh the morning call today. We had a good conversation without you, honestly. I'm just talking about >> uh what did we talk about? We talked about office chairs, um, mattresses, eight sleep, talked about we talked about a little bit about metad talked about privacy coins, a lot of stuff. Did you um wait, you have to do something very important and then I'm going to ask you a few questions.

Do you want to do it? Oh, yeah. I was going to say uh it's last chance. This is this is quite literally your last chance if you're out there listening watching reading hearing this. Um D London next week. Pacio himself will be there October 13th through the 15th. Uh you can still get tickets. Uh if you want to go, you should get your tickets now because then you need to also book a flight or a train or whatever else and get yourself out there.

>> Um I'm wondering if it's a bit late. I feel like now I feel like we shouldn't be doing this one. >> I don't know, man. 0x 100. You get 100 pounds off. Uh if you still don't have your ticket and you want to go, it's next week. Lit like literally Monday. Yeah, Monday I have a talk actually. If anybody's going, you should check it out. I'm talking to I'm talking about prediction markets and pers with a lot of people who are a lot more interesting and important. Let me let me um I'm going to share the promo image. Um I'll share it throughout. I'm not going to pull it out. But um and also on Tuesday, I'm doing full four hours of podcasts um live streams. I am going to be talking with the Paul from Plasma, Guy from

Ephina, Sid from Maple, um as well as we're going to be doing an hour together with the the Blockworks research team that is sent over across the pond. Um Ryan, uh Karolina, who I actually don't think has No, I think she's been on the pod once only um for the Hyperlid episode. So, she just came on was on the most popular episode and just never again. >> Um, so yeah, that that Tuesday should also be a fun day. Um, and of course, if you're going to D London, um, like already booked or if you're not going but you want to book, um, we are having a podcast meetup on Tuesday, um, right across from the venue. So, if you it's it's the Walrus Pop something um,

apparently. I'll um, I'll link to that somewhere as well on the Twitter at some point. Um, but that's like something to look forward to. Um, think it should be on Mr. Vanowitz's dime as well. So, come in and try and drink us bankrupt. >> Yeah, it'll be free. I uh that's it's good they're doing another podcast meet up. I feel like we got a little we got a little snubbed at Permissionless. I don't want to be too grumpy about it, but we were supposed to have this little setup with the with the dunk tank and all that and they were like, "Nope, gotta get out of here."

>> Yeah, it was that's okay. Um the thing is that you can't really bring that up to events people as well, right? Like >> I mean they're they're just kind of like this is what we were told. We're closing this up. We'll see you. So what are you gonna do? That's okay. Um >> make up for it at D. So if you're going to be there, that should be fun. Yeah. And then after this one, we're going to start promoting that's New York City. So guys, if you're worried about the promotions ending. >> Yeah. After this conference is over, we'll be we'll be talking about the next one. So >> we'll probably have give Danny a oneweek break and then we'll start.

>> Dude, I don't know. They're going to have the they'll have the copy already ready like before D is over >> for sure. Um I guess like before we get fully into talking about I want to talk about meta now. Um, we want Oh, we forgot. Shout out to Aptos for sponsoring this live stream. Did you do this? >> Yeah, you got it. You nailed it. >> Very good. Um, I think Umbra raised like 120 mil.

>> Yeah. So, they Let's Let's talk about it. Um, Metad went crazy last week. Price insane pump. Umbra is conveniently at this time like opening up an ICO. They're they wanted to raise minimum 750K and then I think it filled with 150 million. And so they the founder I think just tweeted uh I think we h I think I have this tweet. Let me find it. Pull it up. >> Mil and deposits free mil raise.

Everyone gets 150 of what they deposited. That's a lot. Yeah. So, he they just followed up and said, "Hey, we're going to cap this way way way below 150." He wrote a a long long long tweet and said, "Uh, we've decided to cap at 3 million at an $ 8.5 million FTV." So, I think that was the smart choice. I was I was actually talking on the call this morning without you with um Nick and some of the other guys. >> No, I'm I'm serious. cuz you can ask Nick cuz he that's why he put it in our chat and and targeted at me. Um was saying if they basically ran with the 150 and then like filled everyone at

that Val. I mean it would have made no sense for Umbra. Um given that they only they they were asking for what like 30k or so in run rate um on the initial raise. So it's like they would have basically just gone and raised like $100 million that they can't use and then would have opened at like a overund you know $200 $300 million valuation um for like a early you know pre-product kind of like VC type of deal um everyone would have been filled and then it's like who like who's going to buy this now? Um, and if and then if people ended up selling it and then it went below

>> uh and then it's kind of stayed below its kind of initial launch price, then they would have been open to potentially, you know, being voted to return the funds because that's kind of how Metad works. So, it would have been very silly to like take all that money. So, I I think it was the smart decision that they cap this much lower. >> Yeah. I just I thought it was really funny that they raised Well, I I put out a tweet and it was when they raised $80 million and apparently >> Yeah. >> Well, they got deposited 160. Um it's good though. I mean, that's the ideal way that like if you're going to do uncapped raises for VCs, you want to um if you're going to do uncapped raises for projects, um you need to have a mechanism to

because or else you're just giving somebody like they probably wouldn't make 180 mil over the next 10 years like until they finish the product, right? >> Um so then you would just be giving $160 million. >> Yeah. I mean luckily I think I think the good thing is even if they had made the decision to not cap it. I think the it the discussion around this sort of highlights the benefits to Metadaw's platform at least when it comes to these ICOs because the the community then you know if they raise that amount of money and then maybe it trades down or even if it trades nowhere like if it's just flat for whatever for 6 months uh but the product is clearly not worth that the um

you know investors on the platform can choose to uh vote to claw back the funds and of course the team has to like if they wanted to spend more of the money like they s you know they're like oh we just raised 150 like let's ask to burn like 15 mil a month or something they have they have to put through a proposal and then people have to vote yes so um I think luckily the platform is like well equipped to handle even >> very common like there's a chance >> with a different mechanism like they could have ra you know a team like a max extraction team could have come in you know walted in on the narrative and then raised you know 150 mil and cashed out done no work and everyone would be left crying. So I think the design here uh of

Metadal's platform is you know got to give them props. So >> yeah it is cool. Um what is the metadal FTV? I wonder if it was less than that >> than the race. >> It's not a bill. >> Metadau right now. >> Yeah. Let me check. >> I don't think it's quite that large or even close to that. like maybe a couple hundred like a 100 mil. >> Yeah, they raise more than the market cap of metad. >> That is funny. Um I think this is worth talking about too then um for metad specifically they there is a proposal in right now uh from is it proposed by the metadata team or

is it proposed by DBA and variant? Um, >> it's proposed by DBA invariant. >> That's what I thought. Let me I'll pull this up and share it. >> OPC, right? Yeah. >> Yeah. So, I'm just going to share the market because we can kind of look at how it's being traded, which is sort of the futur part of Metadau. Basically, they're proposing to do a $6 million OTC to for Metadau to mint new tokens and for them to buy them basically offmarket at a discount to current price of Metadau tokens uh to give the team some additional runway.

The proposal down here, oh, it doesn't Oh, it's showing balances. The proposal down here, they're talking about we could hire some additional team members and maybe grow a little bit faster. um though they they do indicate that they have about two years of runway at their current size. So um big I guess question or controversy uh around this is that you know why let them buy at a discount and now that the token price has gone up even more. It's like a significant discount from the like $4 or so that they initially proposed this at. Um, but I guess the interesting thing is you can look at this market here and um, while the token was running up, you can see

that like the reject got valued up quite highly because it's like why would you, you know, the token just ran up to $8 and they want to buy Metadau at four bucks. Um, so clearly, you know, pricing up reject on that movement. Uh, and you can see that that gap is kind of closed a little bit. I'm assuming the token has probably traded down a little bit, but also um maybe that gap was a bit a bit wide. >> Um >> is mad though illli liquid? I wish we had on no edit today, but I got to check. >> Um cuz like I mean I guess you can't really six more of a token that's at 100 more mark. No, I mean you

Let's see. Most of the liquidity is on Meteora. >> Yeah, I mean this would also be used for the team specifically, so they would just use it as a runway. Um I think >> it's not doing a ton of volume like 7 mil. >> Yeah, I think DBA just got unlucky here. I can't imagine that an OTC thing. It's very controversial normally. Um, >> I think in just this specific scenario, it's like putting out a proposal like while the token is kind of pumping like crazy. Uh, it's a little unfortunate the way that like Futary works combined with the attention on the token right now.

Uh, that's kind of a bit of a double whammy, I think, for them to insert themselves into the middle of. Um, that said, I mean, on seven, you know, 7 8 mil in 24-hour volume, you you could buy a decent amount a day. But yeah, I mean, it would take you a while if you wanted to actually get six mil into this coin that without, you know, just shoving without slamming the price up significantly. >> I haven't heard about Mary in a while as well. I know they did like forecaster and stuff. That's interesting. Um, best of luck. I not sure how it's going to turn out.

Seems a bit complicated. I wouldn't This is one of the issues with governance, right? Like there's some things that are required for a business to run. Um such as like getting buy in from venture capital firms to get higher uh like a longer run. Um, and if you have to put every single thing into governance, it's it just ends up complicating things. Like a lot incentives are misaligned. Like this is clearly not like a negative thing to do.

But then like everybody's like, "Okay, well just ship it into the token office." Like >> if I'm holding Metadow and I'm like, "Yeah, just buy six% in the open market, buddy." Of course. That makes so much sense to me. >> Yeah. I want my bags to go up. Yeah, I agree. The having having the nitty-gritty gritty governance stuff come down to community decisions. I I guess the the main thing with their platform is that they largely like they operate the product and they they build that out and you know their growth and whatever objectives are that's that's up to the team. It's just that the token itself um ends up being governed by the market and that's sort of like the check on you know having

low market cap IFV and other stuff um that we typically see with tokens or like dual token equity structures that uh you know we've come to hate. >> Yeah market >> we should talk about double zero now that we're talking about dual token equity. Okay, >> one thing I wanted to mention here is um it would be cool to see if it if a um I guess Soner can do this and Ekko can do this, but it would be nice to see because I think most of the times when you do Sonar and Ekko, you're only doing it for um preede. Um, but it would be cool to see some like I think Metad would have a lot easier time if they

if they had also sold some discount from the team's treasury on the open not on the open market but um you know through like some form of resting schedule etc. I think that would have been an easy way for them to like also say look we're also going to do this on the side or something. Do you know like to normalize some of this things? I think a lot of people generally hate things that they're not able to get exposure at. >> And I think if you um I think if you normalize some of this like because these aren't even like super nefarious things. It's just like the team trying to raise additional funds.

That's I think if you normalize this across like if if you and I are able to get into these deals then I don't >> I think that's a good point actually like the the purpose of their platform is to do exactly that like to allow anyone to invest in these ICOs now and they're like sort of provably fair um via their mechanism. So yeah, I mean they could similarly do like a OTC style raise from the community and it doesn't have to go specifically to a couple VC funds.

>> Yeah. I mean if you're going to sell it at 4 mil to DBA and variant, why not make that allocation? No, if you're going to uh sell it six mil, why not make it like 8 mil instead? And then you let other people buy in as well at a 50% discount. give them the same vesting schedule and then people realize, okay, well, maybe it's not actually a great idea for me to buy something at a 40% discount because they slapped the freeear vest on it and I'm actually not like that's not suitable for the way that I invest in markets.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we'll see if it's up to the market here. So, the the turkey market is going to decide if this passes or fails. And um that does seem like it would be an interesting sort of counter proposal to drop out of this. >> Selling it at 85 mil with no resting. >> I don't really trust though. That's the issue. >> Uh I think he's right on the valuation.

So, the proposal is listed at $48, >> which is >> it's a 50 it's uh it's a 33% discount from the current price. And I don't I don't know if the Oh, tokens would be fully unlocked. So, yeah, I do think this is kind of one of those things. It makes sense to me that there's some upset folks. You could just do a a more open raise.

Am I crazy? Maybe there's a legal there's you sort of maybe get into the legal complication there of then if you do it as more of like a regular raise then you'd have to like bar US residents and some of those other things to safeguard yourselves. But you could do it that that's a typical thing we see now, right? Um, for a lot of these like ICOs as well, you'll see US terms and non- US terms. So, the US investors are always locked up for at least one month or one year, 12 months, and then like EU and other investors have like they're fully unlocked day one. I don't know why that is, but some some legal complication in doing some of these pre-sale ICO deals

um has led to that distinction. I don't know if that would if that would necessarily be the case for an already live token. Um maybe that's that's only for like an initial sales of these assets versus like a sort of OTC kind of secondary trade of them. But either way, >> yeah, I don't know the legality behind any of this. I wish everybody the best of luck. Uh did you you said you want to say something on double zero.

>> Yeah. What is um what is happening? I missed the stream that you had with him. So did you ask a bit about the the tokconomics over here? What are we what are we doing? >> Yeah, we didn't we didn't talk much about tokconomics. I think the big thing I mean they just highlighted that you know they had there were a few like core engineering lab teams behind the initial development. Um, and that's why like Jump and then Malbeck Labs both got pretty large portions of token supply. Um, I don't have much else to say there. Like I think the price action makes sense. I mean it was definitely like way

overpriced at immediate launch. It went to what 6, seven, eight billion maybe like immediately. Um, and it's pulled back from there. I think naturally like if you look at like what's what's Jetto priced at? And I think I think Nick Carbonito kind of said this on when we were on the uh when we were on that initial live stream uh that you know if you look at doubles and you kind of compete since they have kind of a similar operating model in the sense that you know they kind of get a cut of fees and revenues from validators essentially.

Um it it doesn't really make sense that Double0ero would trade at like a massive multiple over GTO on basically day zero when they're not at a point where they've like they have plans to unlock additional revenue streams like kind of going from uh just a cut of fee revenues to then like a cut of inflation like to sort of like capturing all the different pieces that validators make from operations. But today they don't have all those revenue streams unlocked. So, um, yeah, I don't know. I think just kind of a like the launch was a bit overhyped from a price perspective and it's going to have to correct from that with GTO. I mean, jetto's at 1.5 billion FTB. So,

it's weird to look at zero at >> zero market size also very different. Yeah. >> Yeah. At some point, but today they're Salana only. So it's like you have a very similar story where they're taking a cut basically of validated revenues and they don't have the Yeah. I mean sure if you're pricing it forward it's like maybe at some point they're going to capture you know 906% of the stake on Soul um or similar to what GTO has and they'll charge X% of the revenues and all that. But I don't know you can only you can only price in so much growth on day zero. I feel it's kind of my feel.

>> Yeah. I think they also got unlucky because they didn't I think they launched at too high of a price and then Yeah. And I mean it's something that's going to take quite a bit of time. >> Yeah. >> Um to gain any to gain its meaningful form of traction. But some I guess I mean some info I was talking to Ian because he was telling me prior to the launch that they were not on zero. Um they weren't they weren't supported yet from like uh it uh the links that zero had available um in terms of like you know access to the the fiber network or what have you were not

available to them quite yet. Um, but he said since then they've they are now kind of within that coverage area or that's no longer an issue for them. Um, and they've signed up. And the big I guess I think the big kicker here is that 0ero has a massive they have like 13 million soul for their their delegation program. Um, and it sounds like that is a clear reason for a lot of validators to hop on board in the immediate term because it's like even if they're going to take a cut of some of your revenues, if they're going to give you a big chunk of new stake to support you, then it's it's worth it. It kind of maths out in your favor. They're um I think double zero is also the first instance of a protocol

we've seen where they've done like traditional startup style tokconomics like allocations. >> No airdrop. >> Uh I think they they did like a very small validator round but apart from that it's like all team right? >> So >> I don't know. I um and I guess like that kind of suits them because they're very clearly trying to be like B2B. Um they're never going to deal with you and I. >> Um yeah, >> same as with Gito to be fair. Like no, I guess Gito has G so they have to deal with you and I at one level, but like on the block engine side, they don't have to deal with us at all. So if Jet was

just a block engine, I wouldn't even expect them to be uh to have a token. I'm kind of surprised Double Zero has to have a token. I um feels like they could have just not done a token and just kept everything in equity. >> I guess you need to give some form of incentive some way, but if you have soul >> Yeah, I think since it's sort of like a classical style network, they they need some it's like Yeah, I don't know. Maybe it would probably be more It's weird because they do have the delegation program. So like they do have a big stack of soul that like hypothetically I guess you could sort of inject into the network, but it probably just makes more sense to have your own token

that's associated with the network. And the SEC just like I guess they you know their lawyers or what have you have been speaking with them and the SEC just dropped that no action for deep pin style network tokens broadly. Um so from that perspective as well it's like there's the risk of any sort of risk associated with having a token here in this network has like evaporated. So I think it makes sense. It's just I think the question mark is like you know historically the deepin tokens have not really been massive like value earners. So they they really need to like prove out that they can make this

this network token valuable. through the revenues and then and then I think that's kind of where the question mark of like I'm assuming I think and I'm assuming that they do have a dual token like a token and equity structure right now. So that's going to be the the question in the future is are the revenues all going to go to like the token to buybacks? Um do does the equity side of the business get portion of those revenues? How does that work out? That's always still a question in so many of these launches which is tough to navigate. All right. Uh before we jump on anything else, then I want to give a quick shout out to our sponsor for today's stream, Aptos. Uh Bitcoin DeFi is heating up on

Aptos with nearly 400 million BTC assets on chain. Aptos users can now earn yield on their Bitcoin via Echo BTC and OKX's XBTC without the typical bridge risks and high fees. Thanks again, Aptos, for sponsoring today's stream. Bach disappeared during the ad read. Um he has to he has to hide during the ad reads. Um I guess the other one the other one that we can talk about is monad. Um we had I want to say we had intern on a couple of months ago to talk about it. I think the big thing is we've all just kind of been waiting for this one. Um they did their initial test nets like beginning of this year like February I want to say. It was a long time ago. I wrote two

reports. one at the end of last year, one at the beginning of this year on some of the early ecosystem applications. Um, and then it's been like, you know, more than half a year since then. Um, we're still kind of waiting, but um, they did the Monad Cards sort of like drop or at least like I don't even know what to call it. It's like a pre-drop like confirmation. Hey, you you're getting a card. Um, and I think we weren't really sure if those were going to be worth anything, but the Monet accounts have been tweeting lately, like mainnet is coming like 95% complete type thing. Um, the airdrop checker for Monad, which was a big question mark for

a long time. Are all the G monad typers in the Discord going to get an error? I think not really sure yet if that's going to happen or if there's going to be a test net allocation or if it's just going to be the cards, anyone who received a card. totally unclear, but October 14th, next week, uh they're going to drop the checker. So, I'm assuming here in like the next week or two, we should be looking at mainet TGE launch of Monad. Um, and I guess this is this is kind of a still a relatively big one in terms of networks that we've kind of been waiting for to launch. I would say Monad, Mega ETH, I don't know if there's anything else. I mean, maybe Plasma is probably one you would have thrown up there before they launched, but they've already gotten the they've already got

the network out. >> Yeah. >> So, those are probably the two like sort of big remaining ones that that >> Monat and Mega E. >> Mega E. Yeah, >> Mega E has has the optionality to wait, right? Like, >> yeah, >> Monad is um >> Monad actually has some interesting things happening this past week. They had um well they released the cards two weeks ago, three weeks ago and then >> they're releasing the checker on the 14th. >> Yeah, 14th next week.

>> Okay. And then but on Poly Market, a lot of fresh wallets have been created and they're saying airdrop won't happen until the 31st. So >> interesting. >> After the 31st. So in November. So, I don't think that we're getting a token in October. I think we're getting a token in November. Which means that if you're in chain like Mega and you want to you want to take a risk, right? You want to be first to market and Mona are competitive. Well, it's true. Like, you want to take a risk, you want to be first to market, you go launch next week, the launch two weeks, and you're good to

go. You could Do you think they would do that though? I don't know that they have to or that they need to or that it matters. >> I mean, you can get you can do the same thing by like by waiting a month and then just >> Exactly. It's the same thing. Like the you wouldn't you probably wouldn't want to launch the same week, but I think you can wait one two weeks on either side and it's like it's as if it didn't matter. Yeah, we'll have to see. Monet is going to be the first network in a while that's kind of like more Salanaike I want to say um in the sense that like Aptos and SU kind of went for this you know more

scaled higher throughput blockchain design but I think they they're kind of limited in terms of how many validators they can have like 100 150 or so they those networks kind of cap out is from my understanding unless unless that's changed anytime in recent months. But um I I think Monad like it's their their hardware requirements for validators are very consumerlike. Um I've written or done some research on this and like you know you you could pick up a PC with those specs in the you know thousand to $2,000 range um and run and run a node.

So seemingly they can maybe be in that in that middle ground of networks where you can have hundreds to thousands of nodes but also operate at a high throughput um like Soul does and not not how ETH does. Um, which is interesting, but I I think the big question mark as with all new chains that we need to see is like are they going to be able to do anything meaningfully differentiating that um pulls long-term capital and users into the ecosystem?

Um, I feel like we I mean we talked about plasma recently and it's like they've got the emissions and some of the hype, but uh it's just going to be tough to to maintain longterm momentum there as we tend to see with with newly launched networks with tokens of high high valuations that run a bunch of incentives. you know, the people come in, they farm the incentives, and then when, you know, when the incentives get a little, you know, priced in, then they move to the next thing or the next thing with with higher incentives pops and and then they move to that one. Um so but they are in this cohort of chains where like you know meggaith monad um even plasma some it's become more common where spend

a lot of time before launch incubating you know a bunch of teams making sure you have 10 20 30 teams that are going to launch apps um for users um ideally a bunch of trading apps because that's where a lot of network fees and money and revenue and excitement are are derived from. Um, so that's a plus for them. But yeah, it's just it's so competitive. It's it's very very competitive market these days. >> Do you have any thoughts, Bucky?

>> Yeah, I'm trying to think. I um I feel like attention is not as it was before. like the soul times like when soul was really really popping off early days it was there was very clearly like outsiders coming in and I feel like they've stayed some of them have stayed but a lot of them have left um and then you really need like somebody to push your chain to get attention >> so or like you need constant upgrades right like you need some of momentum to

keep going and it's tough to keep that momentum like you said like even plasma I I I think plasma is cool but like it was tough for them and these guys like executed a really really strong strategy with the incentive mechanisms like they onboarded tons of stable coins very difficult thing to do to get stable coins to move from one place to another because intrinsically stable coins want safe safety so like to make them go from one place to another at a large quantity is it's quite difficult Um, and they managed to pull that off, but like still they need momentum because the market wants momentum. Um, and then or else it's like you have to be CZ, right? And you have to say we're

launching a billion dollar fund as YZi YZ YZI Labs. >> Yeah. It's like easy >> easy labs. Um and then like you have to bull post four, you have to bull post and to did this really really well in the early days as well. And then Alon also did really well like they just like they put their weight behind certain token they take risks. Um as likes to say uh it's like shots on goal for them and I mean they get a lot of negative feedback as well. >> Um and I mean there's tons of chains that try to emulate this doesn't work out.

Um, even on the base side, I feel like it's not >> like they have the weight of Coinbase behind them, but I think like they need to launch the token and then Brian needs to really start full hosting and then it can do better. But like Coinbase has the added benefit of they can throw out a headline once every two weeks that says Coinbase to partner with Mastercard, Coinbase to partner with Coinbase, >> they pump that >> you know, and then it goes up. Um, on the hyperlquid end, it's very low-key and it's like they've somehow created they've somehow weaponized people by giving them a lot of money so that every time something on Hyperliquid happens, they're like, "Oh my god, this happened in Hyperlid this week." Bam bam million. But if you're a new chain,

it's difficult. Like one thing that I was talking about with um with a few friends is like monad is and you wrote a report on monad so you know this is what monad is cool and interesting tech right like it's actually it's actually good stuff. Um like they're trying to scale the EVM. They're trying to and they're like doing both software and hardware changes. It's interesting, but the onboarding that they've done for um for like their growth side is a lot.

Like I feel like every three accounts that I follow are the monad growth. I'm like, guys, like how can this be like this? Um I mean I'm like I'm sure they all put in work on the back side, the back back end. Um, but like I'm hoping that they're thinking about like look, like we have all these growth guys. They spent the past two years tweeting out, but like we have a set plan when we go live. Like we're going to hit them with XY Z over the next month and then we're doing like three things a month, two things a month. We're trying to gain attention. K is going to be bull posting every single token. like you need something because or else I mean or else there's like a graveyard

of tokens out there of like L1's that only get bit up when it's like oh soul is going up what's the next like you want to be the soul hype and you don't want to be like the phantom Sonic right I mean I guess >> yes >> yeah it's um you don't want it to just be like a one month incentive campaign and then after that like nothing happens anymore and it's just kind of and it becomes a ghost town. Um I agree with that and I think you even see the difficulty of this like with even with CZ bull posting BSC stuff and Jessie and and Brian Armstrong bull posting base

stuff. It's like you see what happens in that people like ignore like they don't pay attention to it for a month and then they bull post it a couple times in a week and it's like oh this is like it's back like let's go bid the stuff in the ecosystem and then naturally like that fades again for a couple of weeks and then you know CZ comes back and he says hey let's tokenize my dog on the blockchain and then they pump all the coins again and then he like goes AFK for two months and then he comes back again and I and I I think you see this with base as well and like Zora is a really good example where it's like new Zora announcement, pump the token uh 5x and then you know nothing really happens and then you know new announcement pump

it you know pump it 3x and then people forget about it again. Um but yeah, you have to constantly have stuff coming out. Like ideally they would have they would know like all their teams that are going to launch products and maybe even tokens and like have that ready and have like a very clear road map of like we're going to do you know early bridging or liquidity or whatever incentives XYZ this that the other thing for you know these weeks that weeks and we know that like week one these guys are going to launch and we should talk about them and then like the next week we know these guys are going to launch we're going to talk about them. Um or at least just have like enough different things going on that you can kind of direct a community at the different onchain

things to do cuz I agree with you that like Tuli and Salana like they've kind of they already have like something of a core community that's like there probably somewhat captive like you can just kind of see it in even when the like meme hype sort of dies off or like pumps and then dies off a little bit there's still like a baseline of of trading that's happening on like pump fun for example. So >> they have there is like an amount of people that are just sort of like >> relatively sticky, but >> having those like events every once in a while or like new things pop up that like drives up a new surge of speculative interest and it pumps all the chain metrics. So yeah, you have to be able to do that like consistently like over and over and over again. So

having good builders, having like constantly new products, having like new updates, I totally agree with you. Like they it would be a good thing for them to have like that very mapped out or have like a very clear idea of of how they want to approach that. >> Yeah, another Yeah, agreed. Um hackathons probably a huge thing on that end. And ideally, I guess you want like protocols to have their own hackathons as well so that they can build protocols on top of the protocols. I mean more tokens, more good >> and they have a huge war chest, right? Like I mean they've raised over 220 million monet has so um I mean they have the funds to do obviously I mean they have a pretty big team so that like all the growth guys all the BD guys etc but different you know they've done several

hackathons already um you know a couple different like million-dollar hackathons early to get some developers into the ecosystem uh kind of beforehand but yeah to do more stuff like that to do different initiatives to maybe do liquidity incentives. I don't know. That's pretty typical for an early launch just to get some capital on the chain because you kind of need that um for people to do trading and whatnot. Um all of that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. We'll see how it goes. I It takes time. I think it it takes time. You need to like build that core like sticky user base at the bottom and then like kind of have those different exciting events that like pull in external capital over and over again and compound it.

>> Yeah. Another um thing here is like teams shouldn't think that they can do what CZ does. He can't >> CZ can do whatever he wants. >> Yeah, he can't do what CZ does. Um >> heaven's mandate. >> There's money and power that an influence that certain founders have that others don't. It's just not much you can do to compete with Kang Pangs out. So I wouldn't rely on like tweeting once a month even totally like after his first second third tweet you're like okay this is like I forgot I mean people aren't thinking about it but Aster went very very hot after CZ tweeted about it and he managed to do

and he knows the game like I talk about this Ryan look he just like CZ has been here since since probably before it started and he knows what people look at he knows when to tweet He He's clearly looking at charts and tweeting through resistance and to support >> tweeting at the bottoms. Yeah, >> tweeting at bottoms. He's making bottoms. He's and then saying I don't think like as a founder you can you can you can attempt to imitate them. I think you need to develop your own strategy and I think I think a lot of uh founders are hopefully going to figure out how to do it.

Yeah, I I think that's fair. Actually, what I think is interesting on the B&B side of things and I don't know, there's so much being talked about over there, but they are doing this new like they have Binance Alpha, which and like in the Binance wallet app, them and Bass are kind of doing a similar thing where more and more they're like rolling out these products that are like onchain connected, but also you're still integrated with the centralized exchange. Um, but they rolled out like this new, you know, they want to get meme trading and like meme, they're calling it meme rush, but there's a bunch of meme trading activity from like for me and the launchpads and stuff on on BSC lately. And so they rolled out this meme

rush thing, but basically they just they want to get more people on their Binance Alpha and like Binance wallet apps to trade in there because obviously they make money, they make they make trading fee um income from that as a business. Um, but then it like it like rolls into everything else they're doing. So then they they they've announced this like pre-TGE prime sale edition on the Binance wallet and basically your your eligibility is dependent on how many points you have from farming volume in Binance alpha. So >> can I say something like this is the type of crap that I hate, right? I know.

Yeah. >> To me, this is like the worst type of user experience that you can have as like >> but I mean people like it. People use it. It's like >> it's um >> complex and I feel like this isn't something we do a lot in the west to be honest with you. I feel like it's in the west people try to do things like you know how if you look at Japanese websites or Chinese websites they're like a lot more condensed and there's a lot of it like everywhere versus like in the west it's become like very minimalist and like very straightforward to do things. So I think they can Dave but I think some of the >> I think I think in Asia you can get away with some of some things that you

probably cannot in the west but I mean it allows you to launch six programs on top of one product when >> like here if you did like one product on top of one program on top of one product was >> I just I think it's one of those things where I don't know it's just like the way that western versus eastern like business like breakdowns and like product offerings are. But it's it's kind of like that everything app sort of thing that that you see more frequently in the east. And I think Binance is really just they're kind of leaning into that where it's like yeah we have the centralized exchange, we have the onchain, we have the DEX activity, we've got the you know TGES, the token launches. So like let's tie it all up. It's kind of like a it's

like a loyalty system. You know if you use the airlines you earn points if you keep using them and then you get free flights but this it's just like way more concentrated. And so it's like if you do all your trading in here, then you get a bunch of points and then it's like when we do TGES, you can get allocated and and it kind of compounds on itself. And and I think that as a business like that's obviously very it's probably incredibly profitable for them. I'm sure that does a ton for them. And I think it's similar to I don't know if you look at something like Robin Hood and and some of the like fintech apps. I feel like there's definitely a shift where >> in the west they're trying to go in that direction, but it's very difficult. Um, I think relative to the experience in

the east, just because I think it's just harder to get a consumer to like >> do all of those different things in one app over here, unless you're like the comp like Apple kind of has that for certain things where it's like >> they can't do it all. Like they they add wallet >> which is good >> and then like the phone you expect the phone to perform certain things, right? But like >> I don't know if I would use an Apple credit card. Like I know they have one out. I don't think I would. like I I like to keep my stuff separate and I wonder if like that's a lot of how I I wonder if it's also tied into like maybe like some personal freedom or or liberty thing where you're like I don't really want my data all in the hands of one but

I feel like if I'm spreading it across like six seven when they get hacked you know I'm not getting all of my data hacked but I'm getting 20%. I wonder if it's that like there's so we have quite strong like anti- monopoly things. I know that like in Japan for a very long time they actually um promoted monopolies because it was a more efficient way to to run the economy. No, I'm being serious. This is in the for the 80s. Uh I read about but anyway like that's what I mean right here. You don't want to do >> you don't want to do that. So I wonder if it's related to that as well but I mean I'm thinking about it now. I don't think I use like I feel like I separate out apps per like I have very clear

distinctions right like if I was using Robin Hood I wouldn't use Robin Hood for credit maybe like their their card probably >> their cards are very popular >> maybe I'm wrong >> I think I think you're right in the sense that like historically it's been like that but it does seem that we've been trending in the direction that it's becoming more common to try like all these companies I don't know I I think this is a thing that like Mark Andre says, but like tech has been like historically the concept of just like bundling and unbundling services. And so like in some cases it's like one company does everything and so then a bunch of startups come in and they do like the individual thing for cheaper for each individual thing. And then in another

case it's like okay there's a bunch of startups that do all that thing all those things cheaper but then you can just have one startup one company that does everything bundled all together and it's like more convenient. And I think we just kind of like >> sometime the consumer kind of oscillates between those things sometimes. So it it feels like we've been in more of like a I don't know a bundling up type of market where I don't know more and more I feel like you see the businesses it's like okay we're doing really well at this thing now let's offer this other product get our people to use both of them >> um >> we're doing it in crypto as well right like >> yes >> there's no reason for realistically for an aggregator and RFQ system and a DEX to be separate and Jupiter realizes this

and says you know what we're putting it all under one part >> and it it feels like a market maturation thing as well. Like um >> I think for many years we you know the products didn't really make that much money in the first place. So you really had to struggle to like find actual product market fit for your one product much less two or three. Um but now we're at the point where like the initial products work, they make money and then it's like okay how do we make more money? Um you have to make more products or offer more services. So I think that's kind of natural. >> Yeah.

Um, wow, that was a great topic. I was so heated up. Um, before I lose that steam, I want to give another quick shout out to Aptos, our sponsor for today's stream. With nearly 400 million BTC assets on chain, supported by a secure, fast, and affordable MVM environment. Aptos has become the BTC growth chain. Aptos users can now earn yield on their Bitcoin via Ekko's ABTC and OKX's XBTC without the typical bridge risks and high fees. With support from Echko, OKX, and STAX's SPTC, Aptos is the place to go for best-in-class yield on Bitcoin. Appreciate the support, Aptos. Thanks so much to our sponsor for today's stream.

What do Man, I feel like we talked about all the things that >> I was thinking about. >> We did. I don't know. I um I was having fun with that conversation. I was gonna mention that. Yeah, go ahead. >> Salana did a lot of this very early. Um, I think they essentially got a little bit lucky. Um, because while crypto was becoming more and more mature, they also got a lot of attention. So, a lot of teams had to adapt very very quickly.

Um, and they got very well funded. Like Jupiter made bank on fees and they also launched their token. So they they just made a lot of money and then they could spend that money buying up other companies or making official some of the relationships that they had like the Meteora backend side. Um and I think on ETH we're just starting to get here but feels like everything is still relatively separate because people trust certain things like people trust a for lending. Um, I don't know if they would trust it for like I'm sure they would to an extent they would trust it for swaps, but like if you're a firsttime project like Commamino, you kind of have the

chance to go both lending and swaps day one, right? Because it's like like you you're just getting started on building up your reputation, so you can just go with it. Um, and I wonder if like some of these established players like a and I'm I don't think that they would care about this at all anyway because they're capturing such massive lending. um borrowing and like money market activity that like they probably don't ever need to go into other products. Um but I wonder if that's kind of like a negative for them slightly in that they're a bit they matured before the market matured such that they have a name for like one thing now and if it's going to be e more difficult for them to get get into other things. Um like they tried a social networking app I don't think it did very

well. Um what was it called? Lens >> lens >> social networking in general is just didn't work out. >> They have their they have their stable coin go gh >> feel like that's kind of related to lending so you can make it kind of work. It's still not doing particularly well but it's not a bad product. I don't think I wouldn't say it's a failure. I wouldn't say anything bad about a on stream because people might get upset. >> They'll kill you in the streets. 350 mil market cap on on go. >> Pretty good. Like 350 mil I mean for a it's not great, right?

Because like a is such a massive player. >> Yeah. I mean they have such massive overall deposits and lending volume but I guess relative to the size of a itself in market cap >> kind of one. If I was a I would probably just work with um I don't know Stripe like a combination of me Stripe and a third bank large banking provider and then go into go into like issuing a stable coin for them and making that like an official obvious sponsorship like I think is doing this very very well in which they're very actively seeking um white labelled stable coins like they

did the Mega Heath one they're doing the Jupiter one if I'm I'm >> um that's the next step, right? Like it's recognizing that, okay, there's a million institutions that are going to be onboarded on chain. They're all going to want stable coins if I'm going to like if I'm going to get a pie of this, if I'm going to get a slice of this pie, um I need to be involved somehow for launching stable coins. for a it's probably just um all of that deposit flowing into you because you have the best best name. Um but lending is also getting more competitive like Oiler um Morpho obviously although feels like I've been hearing less and less of

Morpho recently. It feels like I was hearing a lot more about them. >> Yeah. The big um the big shift that happened was that a enabled Pendle PT token collateral which for a long like a lot of Morpho's early growth growth was because they were like one of the few places where you could kind of lever those up um and earn yield on them from borrow lend um but I think once a recently enabled that like a month or two ago it was fairly recent um they like deposits and l and borrows for that uh spiked pretty pretty quickly.

>> I mean I can see here I imagine it was in June because in June it went from 24 bill to like 36 bill in two months and now it's at 45. So like a TVL I mean it's such a massive protocol. I was thinking like can you even compare you can't compare to morpho morpho has 20% of the deposits that a has oiler has 5% of the deposits that a has like these these are just not comparable protocols >> um >> the um I feel like the real story for Morpho specifically is that they have they're sort of like anointed as the base Coinbase lending app um which could be pretty meaningful for them like

longer term if um if Coinbase is going to keep leaning into these like onchain DeFi app integrations to the to the exchange um and if they you know just keep broadly like sort of generally growing as a crypto um exchange platform um that that seems pretty meaningful to their long-term growth. But I I think the maybe the downside for Morpho is that like it's still it's still relatively early stage. Um and they have a you know it's like their FTV is like 1.5 billion. It's like 50% circulating the supply I think. But yeah, their FTV is like 1.5 1.6 billion relative to a at like 4 billion. The like relative value

there is pretty like questionable today based on the scale of the business. >> Yeah. But you can you can draw up the growth picture I think for for more folk because of because of Coinbase. It's just like how much how much do you value that growth? >> Yeah, it's Coinbase does have a lot of venues to expand at this point. like they have base which I think post token base will see I'm hesitating a bit about what I want to say because what I wanted to say is I think close token base will do well because I feel like not a lot of people have been farming based but on the other hand I don't have the same insight that I think I used to have into like what people are farming because the entire

farming thing has it got like so boosted in 2020 22 2023 like everyone was wearing twist. Everyone was wearing air twist. Um and then now it's back to that thing where nobody wants to share what they're farming anymore. >> Yeah. >> It's very private like which I think is is good overall if you're like a farmer a big airdrop farmer. So I'm not sure if it's like if a lot of it is from airdrop farming. I um post token base. I'm not sure how it'll do. I what I want to say is that the token will probably do okay and it'll do and that will probably lead to increased activity. Um but they have like they have a coinbase name itself which is getting a partnership a week at

this point. Base um post token we'll see I don't expect to do horribly and then they also have they benefit a lot off of um the work that aerodyome do the work that Morph would do the work that who else they have they have a few smaller participants like Avantis is one um like they're trying to anoint small pieces. Yeah, there's a bunch of teams that Coinbase Labs has backed that maybe aren't like necessarily >> integrated or anointed yet, but like you know, maybe at some point or probably I guess I think Zora is kind of another one as well.

>> Yeah, Zora is a good one. Um, >> Zora changed their I don't know why the hell they would do this. They changed their uh token launch date on their tokconomics. used to be March 11th and then they changed it to a different date. >> Weird. There's like no reason that they could do this, right? >> What? It wasn't like a typo, was it? Like if you go to like onchain the I saw that that sort of circulating around >> works research. No, in the Xerx research chat.

>> Xerx research chat. Yeah. Let me I'm going to look on chain. Uh, we'll make I don't know if this is the original pool. I could just look at the token. What? I'm being stupid. Yeah, apparently original used to say 11th March.

11th of March. >> Yeah. I don't know what this guy was saying. Actually, I'm wrong. It's March 11th. >> It was deployed March 11th, >> February 28th. I'm just looking on base scan. The token contract was deployed 223 days ago on February 28th. Um, but that's not necessarily when the TGE was. >> Well, >> I'd have to do a little more digging to find when uh it became transferable. So, >> I don't know. It's kind of like a funny thing to do, right?

>> It I mean, maybe it was just a typo. I don't know why. What did they change it by two days or something? Few days. >> By 11 days. 12 days. >> Oh, that's strange. What did it used to say? used to say it still says March 11th. >> Oh, okay. >> Say February 28th for something. >> Oh, okay. So, I think they probably just changed the So, the the contract was deployed on February 28th, but that's not necessarily the TGE, right? That's it was just that's when the contract became was put on the blockchain, but I don't the tokens probably weren't transferable yet. So, they probably just changed it to when the transferable date was.

>> Yeah. when the actual TGA happened, which >> I guess it's just kind of like a fun thing to see. >> It's kind of whatever. Yeah. Just like an interesting tidbit there. >> Yeah. Okay. It feels like if we're getting into interesting tidbits, we should end it. Do we have, shall I say, our final prayer? Do we have Do we have one last um sponsorship shout out? >> No. Sponsor shout outs are done. Do you have a Do you have a prayer that you want to share with the class, though? I don't want to I don't have a prayer I want to share with the class, but I have a few thoughts >> with the class.

>> Um, we have the >> guys on Tuesday I am doing like three and a half hours, four hours of live streams of actually important people. Um, not that Danny isn't important, but I think it's going to be a really good time. I urge you to log on and listen. It is at 100 p.m. UK, which is 8:00 a.m. Eastern and 8:00 p.m. Singapore time. So, it'll be live on Twitter. It'll be live on YouTube. Come check it out. Um, I don't think I'll be able to read any questions off, but you can always tag. I mean, I assume people who listen to this are in are in the Xerx Research chat, but if you are not, join that. And if you are already, you can ask me questions. I'm going to be interviewing

Guy from Aina, Paul from Plasma, and Sid from Maple, as well as Ryan Connor, Karolina, David, and Westy as well as other blocks user accounts throughout. So, ask me questions about what you want to me to ask them and show up and listen to the live stream so that I don't get fired. >> Very good. >> Beautiful. Wake up 8 am on Tuesday, listen to Bach and all of his wonderful guests.

>> I'm wondering if I should start doing a radio thing for like >> Do you like a radio voice? >> I don't have a radio voice. I think you have more of a radio voice than I have a radio voice. >> I feel like I could I'd have to change like I could do a different voice and make it more radial. Like do you know you made me think of this this hilarious like internet clip from a while ago? Maybe we'll end on this, but there's like this um there's like this radio station in I think it was in the UK or something like that where the the a prince or something or uh somebody died and so it's like this electronic radio station.

>> This one's for like lady die or something and >> we won't be doing that one. It's like this is a shout out to the to the princess who just died and then they they just hit they he's like drops the beat right then and um I don't know. I think we could do stuff like that. That'd be pretty good. >> Yeah. Um that could be >> I'll work on my radio voice for next >> I don't know. We're definitely going to do to our listeners. This is like a slight slight um teaser, but I think we're going to do caps and t-shirts for Xerx Research. So, if you have anything cool you want to get them put on, let me know chat >> and then maybe we'll do like a raffle or

something. Or maybe I'll just send around like 40 of them to people I like. We'll see. One of them I wanted to say everybody made it but you um I think that will be funny, but I don't think the rest of the team likes it. So, we might have to ID. So, if you have any good ideas, we'll also take that. Um probably like bright pink I like. So, we'll see. But it should be fun. Okay. Oh, I'm finding out that it's fake. That that that BBC Radio One dance did not resume music right after Queen Elizabeth's death. It was fake. And they edited down and made it seem like they dropped that in the middle of a song.

>> Uh, unfortunate. >> That's That's probably better, though. That's that's that's uh you know, let's be respectful of the dead. That would be a bit silly. Uh, anyway, this has been your Xerx Research live stream. We will Bach, we'll see you next week actually from DS live. >> If you're in DS, ping me on Twitter or on Telegram or in the Xerx Research chat and I will try and grab a >> Yeah, meet up and have a cheeky pint, lads. Come on. >> Fine. Um, but yeah, just show up to the podcast meet up. Either way, even if I don't meet up with food.

>> Yeah, come to the meetup. Free food drink. He will see you there. and others. Felix will be there for guidance. Who else? Is it is those two? >> Felix is a scary sight by the way. If anybody has 66240, >> he's a big guy. >> Do not be do not be frightened when you see him. You think he's going to be like a little dude. He's not a little >> Yeah, but he's a he's a nice guy. >> He's a nice guy. >> He's not scary. >> Yeah. Like a gentle giant. >> Yeah, exactly. All right, we'll see you guys. See you at D if you're there. Peace.

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