Modular March Episode 7: Chain Abstraction for The Modular Future with Near

Transcript

welcome to modular March I'm Andy this is Robbie and we are the rollup modular March is an educational experience about all things modeler [Music] enjoy [Music] [Applause] [Music] welcome back to modular march today we

have Ilia the co-founder of near protocol also was seen with a very interesting Hobby in conferences perhaps he can share his Hobbies with us we have Robbie as well Ilia welcome to modular March and thank you for being here yeah thanks inviting great to be here and looking forward to learning about chain abstraction I think you guys have pioneered this concept when you think of chain abstraction you think of Mir so very excited to kind of learn more and try to poke some holes in your thesis sir so when you're ready to go we will go sounds good and let's do abstracted April next so all right yeah so let me introduce kind of the concept and uh you know dive

in into some of the teag behind it um I mean the reason why this is really important especially now is that x 3 is becoming even more fragmented um we we see applications who are kind of need to think about multi-chain from the start because whatever chain you launch in you kind of Highly limit your addressable market right like you only target users with that chain and then you know acquiring users from other chains is like extremely expensive and so you don't want to be limited by that the fragmentation of like experience I don't know how about you guys but I have like more networks in my metamask than can fits on the screen you know I have like

near wallet Lana wallet I have like Kepler I have Bitcoin wallet so like it's just like insane number of things that like I need to handle and then I have bunch of addresses on every chain as well right for different things and obviously you know liquidity everybody's talking about like it's really hard to move uh new rollups are launching every day they don't have a bridge yet you know like the withdrawals are long like it it's all kind of super complicated ton of accounts ton of wallets and then you you as user actually it's really hard like if you're not like a 100% you know full-time DJ who's like you know tracking everything you know where move money I'm moving on chain like it's hard to find this

opportunities and like what are the new cool apps launching it's hard to like keep track of all of this and so how about instead of like defragmenting we like aggregate everything and kind of abstract right so instead of wallet on every chain we want just one wallet for all chains right I mean pretty simple kind of idea but not just wallet we want one account so like the B that uh accounted user owns or a smart contract that you can actually write and navigate the whole space that's really what kind of we introduced this chain abstraction movement uh there's a ton of people actually like gathering around it you know a lot of ethereum F obviously aligned with this Cosmos have been thinking about it from the start uh as well uh or like recently and uh you know

we see that kind of starting to to gain momentum around uh other other ecosystems as well and the reality is like all of the things that people are talking about like are you know obviously there's modularity aggregation there's intense orchestration it is all chain abstraction right because chain abstraction is what we're trying to achieve those are the ways we achieving it right those are the house um and so you know aggregation like for example polygon is doing like Ag gler and kind of uh is a way to aggregate liquidity to allow to chain abstract over intents are allowing for someone to pretty much say what they want without explaining how exactly it will be executed and then you can have somebody on the back end doing

it modularity is a way to kind of launch a lot of you know independent environments but then you need to abstract them out to kind of provide this experience so for us actually this journey started from the start I think when we started near one of the main points that I was driving is like I don't want to kind of figure out blockchain when I'm starting to use block like when I'm starting to use applications right like we're trying to simplify the onboarding experience the usage kind of remove as much of the terminology and kind of complexity you know hashes in your face as much as possible and for near itself near is actually a multi-chain chain itself right we have

different shards and actually even each contract itself is kind of like a like independent chain and we just bundle them together and so we actually been even abstracting that from developers and users right you you need to go really deep to understand how many shards we have for example we just added one more Shard you know uh Network just added more capacity but nothing changed for developers and users on top of it right you don't need to like do anything yourself because of that so that's kind of the you know the basis of chain obstruction is like you don't need to think about it you can easily on board uh we've worked a lot on account our near account abstraction kind of from the main net uh how do we make it simple

for people to rotate keys to you know kind of uh interact with contracts um in a limited capacity so you can have like independent front end doing that so all of that kind of experience now we want to bring to all chains right so instead of just on near kind of in in um in somewhat again limited target market and and and economy we now bringing all of that to the whole ecosystem uh in web3 so the cool thing is uh there's a whole stack of things that like near has that uh are useful for others right so obviously we have you know super scalable layer one that scales with sharding meaning as like for example we

had son of congestion on the network uh we actually added one more Shard we're planning to add one more Shard again uh in in a in a few days as well so like we can continue growing capacity you know continue uh doing things in parallel uh we have near data availability so again data availability being something that near had from the day one it's like in original you know night shade paper and uh it's really how the nearest kind of shards uh pretty much working and so now we can offer add to other rollups to other uh kind of uh chains that needed similarly near has a fast finality layer uh and so we partnering with igen layer to actually offer that for other uh layer twos and rollups and uh to

aggregate security to actually allow to have uh kind of more provability we're working with polygon on ZK vover which allow to actually prove the near chain itself right so we can have like one ZK proof for near but also it's actually extremely useful even non-blockchain use cases vasm is used across you know your browser that we use right now uh you know on edge like Adobe Photoshop uses it for for example L of the compression mechanisms and and uh video processing and so like all of that is like extremely useful Primitives that are useful for rollups for kind of app chains and kind of connect everything into this uh aggreg security aggregation stack so

yeah if you don't mind I was at the there was this event in um Denver called modulith debay with you know some Sal people and daxa and Celestia and clips and basically there was this there's this concept of these like basically l1's or monolithic chains or you know single state machines for a better term scaling in a modular fashion to scale their kind of initial L1 do you view that adding shards into your L1 for near L1 as kind of scaling the the single state machine or the monolithic L1 in a modular fashion or or kind of how do you think about adding shards is that like an appropriate uh kind of term yeah I mean it's interesting because obviously

I mean all these terms are just like a shortcut for something right so I think modularity I mean it it is a a shortcut for for this idea that you can kind of add more capacity to the network but at the same time for ethereum right but at the same time it really doesn't um kind of answer the question of like how does the experience work right and so that's why we talk about chain obstruction for near we started with how does experience work and then added the you know the capacity part behind the scene that's why for us sharding I mean charting is like a concept from like computer science and you know databases that you

know been existing around for a long time like for us sharting kind of it's it's hidden from the user right like modularity right now is in your face right you need to choose where you're going you know you need to check which like data availability uses to make sure it's not like GNA steal your money you know you're like L2 beat you know every day if like they switched or something uh um versus forer its idea was like okay well you have the experience you have the guarantees that are the same like by near Network and then sharding is just allowing to scale this capacity now fund Al it's the same primitive the Primitive is that you want to do parallel processing of transactions and you need more computers doing parallel

processing to process more transactions uh but I like I generally don't call it modularity so but at the same time like near is kind of integrated chain from experience perspective and in a way like modular slash you know sharded chain on the back end that actually allows to have this scale and then just to follow on that can can you just continue to add shards in a trust minimized manner for perpetuity I mean there is obviously like speed of light and other uh kind of limitations uh and like just throughput of the network um so we are uh we are upgrading to stateless validation in May

so right now we have some like I don't know 810 Shard limit based on just like capabilities of some nodes we are adding uh stess validation so like it's on test net right now it's been kind of exercised in our incentivized test net uh and we're launching this somewhere around May and so that actually will allow us to add a lot more shards so like because we don't now like we don't need uh the same kind of level of Sam validators kind of still validating a bunch of shards now we can have uh you know a lot more shards because any validator now can validate any Shard because they don't need to have state right they don't need to sync

State they can just like take a block validated on its own so we can rotate validators all the time between shards we can have a lot more validators in general to do this and now we can actually expand number of shards uh larger now probably like you know 100 plus shards there are going to be other bottlenecks that we're going to work on but like kind of the idea is like we can continue scaling the network and you know find model necks and and resolve them but like generally speaking you know the Shing mechanism allows to continue scaling at it's as if we took the you know model architecture of all the rollups and then just kind of put a you know aggregator around them that kind of you know make sure they settle all within uh

in our case one second like every block and then have all the cross uh cross rollup messaging and everything else packaged into that system all right so for data availability I mean so just for context again so near itself when near produces different shards they are eraser coded they sent out to other validators this allows to you know scale kind of uh the amount of data we can put through the network with more shards uh and so what this allows to do is as a r like if you running rollup you can post data into near Network kind of as if you were you know near block producer as well

uh it gets you know eras coded sequenced kind of and like sent out and then we have guarantees around our validators that you know um that they're going to maintain the uh this data for a period of time and so we then have a way to prove it on ethereum that this data was published on near and kind of under near security guarantees is there and so you can use that to settle you know ZK proof or optimistic proofs on on ethereum uh that data was published and so that's kind of like you know very very simple diagram but again this really uses the existing kind of power of near and allows to like that data ability to

continue to scale um and in a way again makes this rollups like in a way also work in parallel to near shards right you know you can think of them kind of running in parallel um to existing near shards uh while also still have the security guarantees over aium through the whatever proving mechanism they use and so the cool thing here is because we have you know uh we had four shards we actually just got fifth Shard this week and we're going to add six Shard so each Shard has four megabytes per second of of throughput and so uh pretty much you know we already at um 20 we're going to be at 24 megabytes per second of throughput which you know uh

for 16 megabytes it converts to like 2.8 billion gas uh per second uh not per block not per ethereum block per second and so this kind of massive scale right allows you know to drop transaction fee cost I mean compared to ethereum pre preon card right it was like completely insane uh obviously we'll see where the price uh going to settle uh with proton charting and uh but again the biggest benefit is like this this continue scale uh and continue expanding versus a lot of other approach approaches are pretty kind of static sized right they're still running One One Singular blockchain uh that cannot scale beyond that and uh I think that really is you know huge benefit for

anyone who's building like they have this guarantees around kind of low price yeah and just um on this one Ilia um I feel like I feel like that the that the cost of DA forer has been uh ex is clearly extremely low and it's not the lowest um but for some reason the market reflection of of using Celestial or using other Das has been significantly stronger curious about your thoughts as to the adoption of near da and kind of how you see this uh really coming to market in terms of Integrations reliability Dev experience and really trying to to put this to Market and get adoption for near da yeah for sure

that's a good question I mean obviously like Celestia has been Pioneer in the space for a long time and so they they have a definitely Big Head Start um the kind of General side for us is this is one of the kind of tool sets that you get by using kind of near right so fast finality da uh there's also work on some shared sequences and other stuff like all of that you get by kind of hooking into this and then you also now looped in into kind of broader chain abstraction like you can have a faster uh you know interactions as well faster bridging faster communication right so the the idea here is like it's not a

stand alone like hey you know I need a DA but it's actually hey you're you're getting cooked in into this whole ecosystem that like really delivers a better experience for you as a rollup and for your users and so and it's like cheaper and it's like connected to ethereum so like you have all those pieces you really working together for you and so uh we obviously started later we have few rollups already live we have all the major Frameworks integrated a bunch of rollups and services are also offering it uh and also we are we have a plan uh that we're going to be announcing soon around uh kind of interesting I mean go to market for that as well so uh a stay tuned for that but B is you know I think to take away like

it's not just da it's like a whole Suite of of uh services for rollups that otherwise you kind of need to pick and choose a bunch of different providers and potentially they don't work with each other and potentially like you know they don't Pro like the kind of the chain abstraction experience for example you cannot get yet anywhere uh so that's I would say a huge benefit that as a rollup you can do and and the interesting thing is you actually can do double Quorum so because the prices right now are cheap everywhere you can actually post them both get benefits of near still potentially use Celestia and then over time decide what's the best

product yeah awesome and I appreciate that answer I like I said just kind of pick and PR a bit um is there a is there a fallback mechanism for near directly to ethereum should there be some sort of reor or halt or some sort of issues with the with the near da uh layer um similar to to other other Solutions as well um where you know in if there's some issue with near then then that then that W up wouldn't necessarily need to like reorg could end up just using ethereum yeah I mean I think in in in the Frameworks that use right they have kind of back backup if they need to but I mean generally near has been live for um I mean three and a half

years now we we I mean we had some like instability in the network but they never actually like fully you know stalled or failed in in any way so um so this kind of also provides a lot of guarantees and this is while we actually you know recharted Network added more you know uh we upgraded protocol I think like 48 times in three and a half years uh so we have like six week uh kind of protocol upgrade um kind of a cycle and so generally speaking I think uh you have a pretty good guarantees on on kind of network reliability and uh uh depending on your security uh optionality like even if you

have some kind of additional latency or whatever uh I mean this is with anyone right right now in ethereum you you either way have like a pretty kind of big room uh and so uh and near does have like BF finality so you have like a you know as soon as you see final block which usually happens within one block from posting you have you know I at this Point like 66% of uh I don't know 700 million near which whatever the price is eight so like you have a pretty you know multi-billion dollar guarantee on on kind of non rollback non uh non forking that yeah and I guess I I don't know I'm

just going to push forward um so I I guess just the last one is um what was the thought process behind the the design choice for the the way in which NDA uh functions um you know there there's like kcg commitments there's data availability sampling with light nodes like what what did new like how have you came to the design choice for how near da functions and why why don't you use data availability sampling yeah so so near itself uh like that's kind of as I mentioned like data availability is part of near consensus like it's it's kind of embedded into the consensus layer and so the design choices are all based on like how do we put as much throughput possible in a

sharded system and have the security guarantees required and so uh because of this like the the like we use all the same methods that data sampling uses we just use them for sharting right so that all the validators in the network have the guarantees that's why kind of chily it's called Data avability sharting um and so uh and so that's kind of the guarantees and like from a datab ability perspective on eum datability is not really helping you right because like like ethereum is not running data but it's sampling on ethereum like you actually just anyway validating the cons the you know the consensus of the group that uh of validators and so near kind

of provides that guarantees to everyone like hey the consensus of the group of the whole validators of the whole stake of near have uh you know seen this data even though it's charted and kind of you know you can continue adding more shards to to scale that so that's that's kind of the it's like a we start from a different direction like how do we scale I mean in this case data availability uh with demand so it's not limited by a single blockchain and so kind of using the same methods like it's eraser coded it's you know broadcasted across different validators but on a kind of a little bit different level of shards instead of uh kind of the way for example Celestia doing with assembling cool yeah so I mean again

major major framework all of the all of them are integrated um but yeah you can go to uh near. or/ datability or uh near modularity I think this is the link um to check it out so maybe Switching gears is okay well so now we have all this rollups we have all this near we have you know salana we have Bitcoin we have Cosmos uh chains right it's a lot of stuff and so how do you actually uh kind of best you know aggregate navigate this and so the idea here is um we actually want to turn the near Network itself into a large MPC uh kind of multiparty computation Network which now is able to

sign transactions uh on other chains so we're using this uh kind of new tech around uh um key uh res sharing so that you know you can have validators coming and going uh and still maintain the same uh kind of you know quote unquote private key uh uh that's distributed and what this what the kind of benefit of this approach is is that now you have a near account that has a lot of benefits right you know you can rotate Keys you can you know onboard people really easily we have uh you know Pass Key and kind of face ID onboarding email like recovery yeah you can do social recovery you can do all those

things and now this account can be kind of a frond for all of the addresses on other chains right for Bitcoin addresses for ethereum addresses for salana addresses tender Etc and even more this account can actually be a smart contract so near every account there is a smart contract and so you can have a DEX you can have a lending protocol you can have you know a bridge you can have a token contract which now has kind of presence everywhere because it can actually execute transactions there and so this was really powerful um again the kind of core technology here is this uh we call it chain signatures which allows kind of having you know Val dat Set uh that maintains the key shares uh continue

know move like adding new nodes removing nodes while maintaining the same public key that they sign and then for each account we then derive uh kind of new addresses so account account itself defines which which addresses it has and so the account then can have you know infinite addresses as well per chain so have like this ability to have kind of for each near account infinite amount of addresses on any chain and the cool thing is it's works with any chain literally like if we spin up right now roll up uh like it it will already work on it right because it doesn't require any integration on either side and so this is why it's actually like I call it un bridging because you're also like saying instead of bridging assets out of

you know you you we we launch for example something there we need to know Bridge it out for people to find it instead you're actually getting people there right you're like oh you know you already can have an account and you can buy the token or buy that nft or buy whatever participate in that new app that's launching there so that's kind of you know one of the core pieces of chain uh abstraction is kind of really bringing users everywhere from one place and like aggregating kind of all of the complexity uh under the hood and abstracting it out I a quick question here um on the account aggregation the because the user wallets are accounts and those are smart accounts and then

the token contracts are also uh smart contracts this account aggregation this means that uh the users are able to have one account across all of these different ledgers um and then it does it also mean that the tokens can exist almost like this like Omni chain token Omni token yeah yeah okay so both of those apply because of the same principle yeah or or you can have a Dax or you can have a like you can have a I don't know cardano lending protocol you you put cardano into an address on cardano and then the near account now can for example send transaction on USD on uh whatever etherium to to to lend you some usdt right so kind of yeah near

is like can coordinate all this like multi-chain kind of accounts but yeah om token is really cool yeah you deploy a token on near and then it just pushes out and creates like your c20s SPL I don't know brc2 if you want to be really D gen and so you now have like this the same token kind of everywhere Accord and like you know you may need to like move the supply in some way but like it can create like a really powerful kind of network effects there yeah very cool to see how that happens from the user perspective and then also from the uh chain contract perspective for sure yeah awesome all right so the other piece

that is important that people I would say usually brush off is so okay so we have you know we have lots of chains we have you know infrastructure for kind of aggregating security and making sure they all kind of aligned we have the account level which now allows you to navigate and and transact and all this but now like where the hell are the apps like how to find them what's going on who's doing what is this a legit app is this going to steal all my money on all chains now uh so how do you actually like uh make sense of that and so we developed this uh framework uh we call decentralized front ends which actually stores the source code of the front end onchain so the actual like literally JavaScript code is stored on chain and uh it it

rendered in specific send boxes so it's kind of it actually is secure uh to uh to compose different applications in one one experience and so what this allows to do now is to have actually security of let's say your smart contract and your front end to be the same your Dow right that's deploying smart contract can also deploy the front end your uh you know potentially a way you kind of maintain and upgrade and everything can be all the same and on the flip side you can have this kind of experience which Aggregates a lot of front ends for smart contracts and that's kind of like I you I use this cheeky phrase like your app your DBS are not DBS because right now

most of the daps are are just frontend for smart contracts right you still need like wallets you don't have any notifications you don't you know there's no like experience built around it and so uh one of the ecosystem projects called dabdab build this experience build this app which has 14 different layer tools 150 different smart contract all of them aggregated into one experience and so in that experience you can go and actually uh check out the kind of applications you can find new things you can see like you know there's upcoming airdrop for example tab which like uh lists what's going on so you have this discoverability now of experiences and you know Economic

Opportunity across all the chains and they they actually adding more stuff they launching kind of more functionality every day so that's again it's powered by the fact that like each front end for each smart contract is you know can be developed separately can be like aggregated very easily um they don't need to maintain for some of this uh thiss it's kind of like an app store right for the defi apps in a way across all of the web 3 and so that's kind of the vision we have as like this this continues evolving we'll have more and more of this now aggregated experience where uh you know as you go through a wallet or you go through kind of one of this like gateways you're able to navigate all of the web three you can

find applications and and experiences and then if you have a single account right that can transact on all of the chains you don't need to switch networks you don't even need to know which network like dodo is running on uh you just transact with it and you know underneath it like figures out which network it is signs a transaction for it through the through the accounting regation change signatures sends a transaction through a gas kind of gas Rel layer uh you know transaction happen and then you're kind of front end shows you back the result right so like the chain actually is becoming abstracted you don't need to think about it you're just navigating experiences so the cool thing about near we've been last year focused a lot on

the uh kind of bringing consumers so we have uh the most consumer apps and users uh on there and kind of the benefit now we're bringing all of the users to all of the chains right so like part of it is you know some people ask me like oh but isn't this you know whatever stealing our users I'm like no we actually bring users to you like we have you know 8 million uh over 8 million actually monthly actives in Catching hot is a new telegram wallet That Grew they actually are I think three million monthly actives now they grew they grew to a million in uh 10 days and I think in 3 million is 40 days so like insane growth uh they right now pretty much are

transacting on near but you know they're planning to launch with chain signatures um kind of as soon as that's available and so really bringing all this users um kind of across the whole Lab three and so I think that's really I kind of benefit of you know we talk about Mass adoption and so like Mass adoption kind of already happening uh it's just right now it was locked kind of in the you know in near in you know reasonably so small economy and now we actually like making it available everywhere yeah and I think that that uh that's something that that we like you talked about there's a space today about applications as a result of like the modular stack or or just kind of like this idea of of chain abstraction I was

talking to kind of uh I was talking to brenon Farmer from polygon about how he kind of sees near chain extraction as like the frontend and agir or other you know things as the back end and your point with regards to okay the future of chain in the chain extracted World whether it's shared sequencing whether it's Ager whether it's any of these kind of interoperability Tech Technologies on the back end which users don't really care about necessarily is user ABC comes into one of these apps then is able to then interact with these apps and then wants to use another app or wants to use another part of the system and then automatically their their liquidity is is basically bridged or inserted into rollup ABC outside of just near or

outside of just their initial point and so right now in ethereum we kind of had this misalignment of incentives where blast as native yield they're trying to get as much eth on their chain as possible and TBL and all these different things when really I think the future where you're going and and where you're seeing is like look if we can all just build these things that that that that are attractive to people and then allow the downstream effects to flow into the rest of the ecosystem if we can all just collaboratively do that across the Spectrum then then it's just kind of a greater chain abstracted kind of vision and liquidity for all and so I think over the next year or so we start to see these this uh rollup infighting almost of like oh I'm CK oh I'm op got this got

that kind of turn it turn on his head to be like guys if we can just get a chain abstracted kind of unified rollup landscape and just do our best to go out and bring in then we you know we all kind of win together for the sake of ethereum for the sake of near um and broader space yeah I mean exactly that that's really the you articulate division is you know if we work together we actually can like bring the best products to the users and actually attract more users uh versus if we're like in fighting and you know the projects are like jumping around or like launching on all chains and then too like too distracted by you know which which chain is giving them bigger Grant or whatever like then we kind of lose momentum and we get into

bare Market again right uh so like I think it's it's really important to yeah kind of focus on you know how do we get a lot more users into this and like with near we've been focused a lot on that and kind of experience and then how do we make this users kind of go everywhere and make it available everywhere and then indeed you need this a layer and you know intent and kind of orchestration all the pieces behind the scenes to make sure that you have you know correct security you have you know nothing rolls back randomly here and there uh you have the aggregation you have execution that you know multi-chain and so like all of those pieces need to like happen uh on the back end to power that

yep totally agree super bullish on the consumer facing things that you guys are are building yeah so I mean just kind of as a you know to leave you as a meme right don't be a fragmented web three uh kind of you know have lots of wallets you have fun stuck withd drawing you know you miss air drops you want to be a chain abstraction Chad um you Chad also starts with chain abstraction um and so you know you want to see like everything in one portfolio get every drop you know leverage your Bitcoin swab in seconds any asset across all chains so yeah welcome to join chain abstraction movement gosh I just feel like such a a left curve left side of screen right now

gosh this is my life on Shain for the last two years yeah it's all of us yeah have uh been there yeah I mean just kind of so like chain abstraction that's what we focused on but again maybe just to like look look after like what's coming next because everybody's like okay well trade obstruction is happening now like what's what's going to happen next and the reality is like I think that there going to be a change as well in how we interacting with you know blockchain with Computing right so the consumer apps themselves the the SAS software the business software will also be changing by leveraging AI by changing kind of the experience and so kind of the vision we've we've been talking about it last

year uh it wasn't like as clear now uh we got a lot of clear pictures like it's a self Sovereign operating system right so like think of web 3 is you know your networking stack your peer-to-peer your Communications your value transfer uh and then you have this front end apps that are like becoming super apps because now they can experience like have lots of experiences across all web 3 and so what's in the middle is this operating system right it's what connects you know the developers who building with this kind of Hardware right blockchains and other pieces of the stack and uh there's Eli modules you know kind of that you know like coordinate all this so we have like a bunch of projects now that are generating ux for example and uis uh from your description right or allowing

you to like just type in hey Min me an nft or swap a token or whatever and execute the transaction for you so like the experience is changing the you know interactions with governance interactions with you know potentially intelligent assets that are like we have this really cool thing called Shield GPD where you deposit your mem coins and then you shill it to buy more of that mem coin uh and so there's a llm behind that actually like scores how like like should it be buying or not and like did you convince it or not right so like you can have all those like pieces kind of really coming together into like a One Vision of this selfs operating system and like I have like a whole talk at this Denver actually about that uh I mean so demo like this presentation so yeah so check out your

modular you can like plug in whatever your framework is and see the prices comparison between different chains uh DB d.net is for uh for those who are want to actually not you know run around different rollups but actually like see everything in one place uh they have quests they have points they have like all all kinds of uh cool things you know you can see what of the air drops coming they partnered with lenia they partnered with I think uh some other base ckvm Etc I think 14 14 layer Twos for sure I think D more uh sweatcoin is the first one who shown uh this kind of chain abstracted chain signature transaction so there's a demo

of pretty much buying with sweat something on BNB and so this is like you know you can literally buy you know I don't know like Unstoppable domain by walking yeah so you don't need to know about anything about B&B near kind of you just receive your sweat tokens you you know buy this and then underneath like they pay you know in the transaction relayer for gas there's a chain signature that signs a transaction on BNB gets relayed by a relayer that pays gas on that side and then that buys you the uh the domain for example uh and then for yeah for those who are like developers you want to check out chain signatures use cases and more doc there's a docs um you can go to

docs. new.or and there's a chain signature section there so yeah I'm just uh you know suggesting to assemble all the abstractors uh it's time to really abstract the blockchains and uh yeah make it make it consumer friendly awesome milia thank you um just gonna jump into a couple questions I think I'm just going to take the slides down as long as it's all good with Rob I I I'm I'm curious about this this futuristic um onchain agents perhaps interacting with with uh Defi and blockchains rather than than humans um are you building near and and these chain aggregation these um these account

aggregations all these kind of abstractions are you building this for a future of humans interacting with it are you building it for a future of AI based agents interacting on chain I mean it's both right like I think the best thing to like the best way to think about it right no like you don't care if the address if the account on near is a human a agent or a cat right and so they can now transact everywhere they can actually interact in the same way and so indeed you can have and we we have examples of uh kind of Agents both onchain or an offchain agent that that has an account that can interact right and pay for stuff and and kind of uh

transact on chain right and so kind of the chain obstruction really allows them to communicate across the whole ecosystem called Web 3 so like the cool thing right now if you are building like anything in AI like launching on near opens up this everywhere and we have like a you know a few already tools to kind of enable that easier um and so we see you know first examples and kind of toys being already launched but they also like as as I think this evolves we'll see some really interesting kind of Novel use cases on on that very cool yeah it's uh it doesn't matter right right like like you said whether

it's a cat an AI agent or a human like the user experience is going to save like all three of those groups time energy resources um if the user experience is easier yeah especially for cats I think they they definitely canot Bridge tokens right now yeah I don't think so I I don't think so um outside of outside of kind of what we've talked about today um what what space is is particularly exciting to you um that that is you know relatively new as far as the last year to um is is there anything that's really caught your that you're like wow I want

to do more research about this or kind of lean into this I mean well we touched on AI I mean there's a whole spectrum of AI about three things I've been I've been talking a lot about that and uh um kind of working with a bunch of teams um on on different aspects of that uh I think beyond that I mean obviously we've seen kind of a huge gross of real world assets I mean I don't think it's a new thing but I think we getting to like a legal Frameworks which work and so now it's coming becoming more and more normal thing um and I think it's it's kind of interesting because I've heard some some this from somebody yesterday who was like hey we should not be invading legal

structures when us startup and the thing is like that's literally kind of crypto is like a locus of innovation around regulatory kind of legal Finance you know and Technology coming together and like you kind of cannot do one without another and so I think like we we'll see a lot of interesting kind of financial instruments that you know have real world impact but have also this digital asset benefit like so one project is doing like tokenized that but then you can turn that into like a credit union right the credit unions were kind of localized entities that were giving credit to people who you know they

probably had known or some somewhat connected so they could have a way better kind of credit system and so now with crypto we don't have like uncolored loans because we don't have a way to like validate who the person is or uh who is the Contra party and but if you have a c Union like I know you guys so I can give you a loan but then I may not have the capital to give you like how do I borrow against it and then maybe underwrite this low so like we can now build this interesting more interesting systems because we have like more pieces kind of both connecting with real world and more digital asset uh kind of T5 Primitives so I'm excited about that kind of trend and that expanding and uh I mean how's that kind

of start impa in real world right where hey like actually it's easier to participate in on blockchain again with chain abstraction with like all of the EAS is on boarding then it is in traditional way where I need to like you know now figure out a bunch of stuff I got a question about the the integration or like the adoption process here um to integrate and and bring the entire industry under this chain abstraction uh give it that that user experience feeling what is the process to integrate something like you know like an OP stack or like an arbitrum orbid or like you know is it a matter of bringing them

into the same kind of like node operators I guess you know you mentioned all of like the composability and the user experience benefits of the applications that are built using near da and and the near nodes is like is there a conversion process to bring some existing applications into the near ecosystem or how do you how do you think about that adoption cycle yeah so that's good question I mean it it's kind of depends so like the way to think about it it's a stack right and so you know the best thing if you get all of this right you get the best results but you can start at any point and so so chain chain signatures work without any integration

on the other side right like it it because as I said you can just push transactions into other chains now we still need some you know relayer market like somebody who will have the fee to pay on the other side but that's a way easier like kind of you know you're getting paid by the tokens like Market kind of Market making type relationship now uh that kind of is a good start but also it allows only to write you also need reads and so reads require some you know some oracles since there's like some uh new protocols coming out which are like chain abstracted oracles which allow to bring information back uh now when we talk about for example da and and like some other

pieces right that obviously requires a little bit more integration on their side right and so again that's why like hey you can start with dual Quorum that allows you to start publishing on you know for example even C near you can do that uh and then over time you know you can like start getting a lot more benefits from this so uh so for that we have you know op arbitrum stet like all of the stacks pretty much we have Integrations they can just adopt that uh if you're talking about like application hey I'm I'm you know magic Eden um to start it will be like you can uh you can just will add something in in your wallet selector so that now this chain abstracted accounts can can log in

into your app uh on the flip side if your wallet uh this is where like we offer kind of you know we working on getting an SDK that you know you can integrate now used through a wallet can actually access all apps and all chains right so you now need to not need to integrate Every Chain independently and then figure out how to like offer your user a way to transact there you just integrate one as DC and just work right so so it's kind of like on different for different audiences it's like a little bit different entry point but then you get like more and more benefits from this stack yeah that that is very helpful and I think there is kind of like some more work to do because um you know if it's a matter of like if the entry point is the

wallet and it means I have to to create a new wallet to in order to have chain signatures across all accounts like does that mean as a metamask user I need to send all of my tokens to a new wallet or is there like a an integration flow where there is kind of like a I don't know like a peaceful transition from like a a regular account that is uh per RPC to a more like chain abstraction type of account yeah and again it's it's like if it it's uh if it's an app and you have existing like metamask and it's an app right like we working on you know making that easy like just add one one line and app if it's a wallet that is willing to

go kind of chain abstracted right they need to switch a little bit in their side now they they have so much more reach and offer right so they are like way more competitive in the market and then we have things like dab dab that actually serves almost like as an integration point right where it integrates a lot of apps and it offers all the wallet but they actually do all of the kind of connectivity right so then in this in the dabdab case dab dab does the heavy lifting and so any user with any wallet can come in anyone can uh you know use with any OB to integrated and so you kind of offer like more of a platform so so we kind of have like few of these you know kind of shots on goal in way in parallel because we think like for different use cases like

the adoption will come in different ways but then also there will be apps which are like built in this chain abstracted way from the start right so like a multi-chain Dax that works with this in mind like this kind of uniquely enabled right you you know think of it as like binance 2.0 kind of the batter in centralized exchange because it's fully non-custodial but at same time the experience of on boarding is easy you have access to all chains right away right you don't need to wait for somebody to like white list enable Etc it's all decentralized and then you know it's all uh kind of there so those kind of experiences will be uh you know uniquely enabled by this and we have people like building that building like ordinals you can deposit ordinal create an nft on near trade it and then

withdraw it back into an order on bitcoin address like those are really becoming new unique use cases as well and like for us already here these things are exciting for us from a a principal perspective of a better experience so for us it's like a it's a want it's not necessarily A need like I may still contri I may still contribute in to onchain if the if the ux doesn't get much better for the next couple years then I might be like okay guys what the hell are we doing here but for like the other people who are not really here for like the ogs if you will for them it's it's it's a necessity and so like the process those people won't even onboard to a metamask perhaps in the future they'll they'll probably just

onboard directly into account abstracted aggregated Etc wallets exactly yeah I mean that's kind of to to like give you comparison right so I mean I don't know the recent number but has like 30 million active monly actives right near right now is uh I think at like 15 across these major like chain abstracted wallets and so and it's growing and So like um and so the idea is like and and this is like we have actually more manly active adresses on near right now than on any aade as well so like clearly I mean even though they say 30 million monthly

actives that's they're not actually using metamask like to send transactions they just have the metamask uh I'm assuming I don't know how they measure that um and so like we bringing all of that users across all web three right and and like those apps are growing and they're going to grow in faster because they offer more functionality uh so we kind of see that as like hey actually the new consumer the actual new users are coming through this channel like they will not be installing like metamask as much they'll be coming through you know sweat coins and Kai chains and Hots of the world and play ERS and other apps yeah yeah I really appreciate the uh the vision it's very exciting to kind of speak to like the forward-looking

aspects of crypto because feels like we're really just on the cusp of of all of this you know it's like you build Solutions you encounter new problems and you build new Solutions and it just feels like we've gotten to a point where it's like the solutions are really going to start to make like a more of a zero to one impact almost like the Unis swap moment in terms of like wallet ux and unified liquidity and experience on chain and things amongst all this other modularity conversations so IIA very much appreciate you being here today with us yeah thanks for having you guys