🚨LIVE: Saylor's MSTR In Trouble?! Volatility Incoming. Fomo Co-Founder & Chainlink Join in The Tower

Transcript

[music] [music] [music] Heat. Heat. [music] >> [music] >> Thank you. [music] Lord, [music] we'll see you around the timeline. Feels

good to be back. >> I think The Rollup [music] is one of the most premier media brands in crypto and Andy and Robbie are great experts [music and singing] at everything they talk about and it's my favorite podcast. >> Adding into my library potentially multi-chain deployments. >> We are at Dev Connect day [music] one here. I'm guessing base. >> [music] [music] [music]

>> Heat. Heat. [music] Heat. [music] Heat. [music] [music] >> [music] [music] >> JP Morgan, Black Rock, DTCC, Fidelity,

the entire thing was just institutions. It's just it's next level. This industry is going to the next level. And guys, I I don't know what else to say. I'm bullish. >> He said it. He finally said it. >> So bullish. It is bullish. I'm bullish. We're bullish. [music] [music] Heat.

[music] [music] Heat. [music] Heat. Heat. [music] >> [music] [music]

[music] >> Corola [music] is headed to the top. If we're not already at the top, we're going to the top. >> Roll up is my favorite. >> People from all walks of life, all over the world, all over this industry come together for the roll up. [music] [music] [music]

>> [music] [music] [music] >> Zoom out. The institutions aren't coming. They're simply here. It's the golden age of crypto, guys. Get right. Let's go. [music] >> Welcome to the next. See you on the show. Yo yo yo yo. Let's give it up.

[applause] Wow. Wow. Again, ladies and gentlemen, happy Wednesday. Bloody Wednesday, some could say here in the tower. Bitcoin looking around that 60K mark. I've got a Yerba Madre in the building here. No Robbie for the rest of the week, guys. in Peru. He decided to to go to Peru as uh all of our bags nuke to zero. Don't blame him. I don't blame him. [snorts] Uh guys, you're watching the rollup. We're here live from the tokenization tower. It is June 24th, a bloody Wednesday from the tower. That is all good. We are here live from the financial capital world. You're watching the rollup as always, powered by our friends at Plume, the Nest onchain

infrastructure, the future of digital asset management on chain. Plume and their nest product are doing great things in the RWA landscape and more. What's up NCOCSM? What's up man? Honestly man, what's up is uh I hate to be in this position like I really hate to be in this position but what what is up is praying for a bounce. That is what is up. And um yeah I mean don't really like to be out of control in life. That's why uh the entrepreneurship career felt right. take control of your destiny and uh yeah right now the destiny is fully in control of me and I do not like it. I really >> almost do not like it.

>> All right guys, today we have markets and weather as per usual. FOMO's co-founder is going to join us in the tower after their massive raise. That should be a good conversation considering all the growth that's been happening on Salana uh and broadly. Uh and then we have chainlink's head of institutional development. There's a tokenized this institutional conference uh this week in New York. So a lot of that those types of institutional players are in town. Uh we wanted to bring chain links head of institutional development. He's the first time he's been on the show. First time being on a podcast podcast in general. As always, our topics are powered by our friends at Treasure. Use code rollup10 to grab a treasure from treasure.io.

Ladies and gentlemen, as I said at NOCSM, we are praying for a bounce. sailor strategy is really in trouble. Uh he has now achieved main character mode. And if you guys have been following along this industry for a while, main character mode is uh it's not what you want to be in this industry. It's not what you want to be. Capital flows, let's go. Here for it. Yes, sir. Nothing's changed in the hype thesis, my guy. We're we are going to hold the 50 level. Uh things are going to be all good and uh the markets are a little bit shaky. Markets are a little bit shaky, guys. All right, we're we're going to

move into the markets, into the weather, into the news. We got we got sailor to cover. We got raises to cover. I got markets and charts that I want to talk you guys through. And then we have two awesome guests today. So, let's get into it. Before we do, let me tell you about FRA, our premier stable coin partner, powering the future of onchain money, open stable, borderless. Visit fra.com to learn more. Guys, it's a beautiful 76 degrees here. Uh, feels like 78. Beautiful day outside. You guys can see. Um, Capital Flow says, "Yeah, I'm holding." Uh, yeah, holding the line on Purr, I assume, is what you mean there.

And then also holding the line on hype. Thanks. I'll keep my shares of Purr. Uh, good to hear that, buddy. Um, powered by Relay as always. Use Relay.link for all your crosschain swaps in these guys. Uh, start swapping seamlessly today at relay.link. Let's move into the markets. I know this is what you guys want to hear about. As I said, I'm in a point of no control, which I don't like to be in, but we're going to we're we're going to be all right. Uh before I do, let me tell you about dinari, our tokenized equity partner. Visit dinari.com. Trade SpaceXD on dinari on hyperlquid for the best yield on spot SpaceX possible on chain.

Here we go, guys. Um you want to bet against America here. Mark, macro liquidity is building and the rollup is live. Welcome to America. I did see some stuff capital flows about people saying that the macro liquidity is not actually rising and that we're getting a bit of a squeeze here. Have to check out your stream today. Um that people are a bit worried about the fiat debasement trade or the dollar debasement trade coming to an end and kind of what that means. Bitcoin hovering above 60. I think I think it's pretty likely that we're going to sweep under 60 at this point.

It feels pretty likely uh test out that level at about 59 59 and a halfK. Uh that's kind of the make or break it level guys. ETH I mean we we went over ETH what you know where that thing's at what it looks like. Um, we didn't really go over Salana or chain linker near much, but I think you know those things are just going to follow the leader there in in Bitcoin and in uh ETH macro liquidity is contracting with the Russell is making a new high. Yeah, I don't think so. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, small caps doing well means that obviously there's still a lot of risk appetite in this market. Equities are kind of stabilizing. Crude oil is down a little bit. Uh Bitcoin is obviously

pulling back quite a bit. Uh oil is delivering the macro relief I think that that this market wanted. Um but yeah, we need to un we need to get a we need to get a sweep on the majors is what I think needs to happen. We're basically there right now, guys. We're testing that that 60k level. This should be a pretty solid demand zone. We might go down, sweep the high 50s, but I think that might be it for now. Uh we shall see. We shall see. As always, our markets are powered by our friends at Zama. Visit zama.org to use their portfolio tool. Their confidential transactions onchain. Send any stable coin, ETH, or Zama tokens confidentially to any EVM address on chain. All right,

guys. We're going to move right into it. Uh, we got a quite a bit of articles, news, topics to cover for you guys. Before we do, let me tell you about Near, your home for building, discovering, and using apps on chain. One account, no borders. all of your financial life on chain in one place. That's near.com. Capital flow says people who don't understand rates, crude coming down and we have a lot of dispersion. I do see that as well. Um oil coming down has been great. I mean, we we thoroughly needed that. Um and so the war is over, guys. We we've been kind of fighting the war for a while, but the war is over. So, all right. So, I thought this article from Bas was pretty uh was pretty interesting. I

think I'm just going to read it out. Um, everyone smokes again. No one Nobody has a favorite brand. You might argue maybe even correctly. Cigarette advertising budgets have been nerfed. Why wouldn't the Goyam buy new ports yesterday and spirits today? Don Draper quizzed a waiter on his brand loyalty. They gave them to us in the service. I love my old golds. Cigarette apathy speaks to a broader lack of preference. I don't have a favorite team. I just like a couple players. I was a basketball fan fan in May, but now I'm rocking with soccer. I don't know all the stories or the players or what happened last month.

Goal, man, that is just it was the Knicks last month and then now it's the World Cup and I couldn't even tell you what happened the month before. The collective amnesia in this world of the rapid pace of events and the it was the war, then it was the finals, then it was the World Cup, then next month we're going to have something else, and then it's just going to be having preferences is a lot of work. There's a startup called Taste Now. I don't have time to keep up with what's cool. Can you put a Paul Newman and a 996 and a Remoa on the same website so I can buy them? Investing behaviors skew similar stocks or factors and tweets.

Coin hold times are 75 seconds. Now we care about photonics. The AI trade made people care about photonics. Palunteer was last year. I have a 2% draw down limit. Henry Kravis advised me to find permanent capital, but I need to make it by summer. My gosh, does this hit right now for all like the day trading madness that is happening. This article is fully on explaining just how how shortsighted everyone has become. How how how these collective amnesia of the world has accelerated. Spaces have collided.

The four group chat apps look the same. The five feeds that show the same reels stand in line for an hour at the same coffee shop. There's an impending wait, not an end of history, but a collapse of seasons into the now. Now now, now. What's the move tonight? Chickens with no heads on career paths. [ __ ] it. Let's trade the college basketball players. If we don't take off by summer, the lab is going to make it. Clawed in Slack hits a bit harder because the agent is in liinal space now. He's not in your command line anymore. I don't use it. Back rooms was the best film I've seen in two years. The depth of unease is hard to pinpoint, but after the movie, my wallet disappeared and showed up in another bag.

The war is over for now, but I bought some out of the out of the money call options on oil. NOCSM says there goes Bitcoin under that 59 or under that 60k level. This should be the sweep zone anytime in the next I don't know couple thousand. Man, this is um this article I just read it and I was like wow. It just hits from like the level of like I keep saying collective amnesia where you just have you just have this market where everything in this world where everything is moving. It was gold and silver in January, then it was the war and hyperlquid and then it was uh sporting events uh and then it was uh the IPO. SpaceX IPO was last week or was

it the week before? I think this is the point, right? like you don't even you don't even know when things are happening because we're always we're just on to the next thing and it's just a crazy crazy dynamic fast-paced world and this article I thought was particularly funny. So, all right, let's keep it moving, guys. Uh before we get our first guest up, um so our friend Arthur Hayes of the show uh came out, if you scroll down, you'll see like the main quote suite here. Um and it is from a guy named Simon. And basically Arthur comes out and is shilling this cards token which notably has a good bit of revenue. Um has some pretty substantial growth. Targets $4 by end of the summer.

I think the thing's trading at like I don't know 27 cents right now. So one of those classic Arthur targets, right? And if you scroll up basically what's happening is there's a $7 million of cards unlocks happening in 5 days. And so you've seen a lot a lot of promoting this thing on Twitter from different influencers. 13% of the of the total to token supply is circulating. And in June in June 29th, so in 5 days there's a 30 mil token unlock. And we didn't talk about this to you guys really because I didn't really get it like I didn't really get the TCG cards meta that well. Um, and I just find it funny that our guy Arthur

comes out, you know, like and says he's bullish cards when there's this impending event coming. I I just find that to be I find it to be somewhat funny. Somewhat funny. So, I'm staying away from cards, but if I pull it up on the chart, um just on my side here, it actually looks uh it it really doesn't look bad. Like, um it's one of the best performers of the entire last I don't know, six months.

Down 8% today with everything. But, but yeah, I I just found Arthur's timing in this one a little bit funny. And I'm staying away from cards for now. Um, but we'll see what happens to that one. I'm on an important call with a client, BRB Freedom Guy. Thank you for always showing up, man. Day in and day out. We're not going anywhere. We're We're going to get through this bare market. We're We're going to get through this time. We're going to be all right. All right, guys. We're going to keep keep it rolling into the next uh interesting new product from a AI financialization company. Before we do, let me tell you about Infinifi. Building DeFi infrastructure for simpler access to onchain yield, liquidity, capital

allocation. Visit infinifi.xyz to learn more about what they're building there, guys. So, A6Z crypto leads around into a company that is allowing you to essentially speculate on compute. So, ONN is a company that is a market for compute. Basically, the thesis here is that trillions of dollars are flowing into AI infrastructure, GPUs, data centers power and compute itself is becoming a major commodity, but pricing of that compute itself is still somewhat of an opaque market. Um, there's this massive buildout. It's going to be as big as the industrial revolution and it has become

one of the most important commodities in the world. We heard data is the new oil, but really it's compute. And so Orin is building this financial layer for compute starting with the ORN compute price index. So if we scroll down you'll see more about that. Basically there's going to be futures on compute. So you can speculate on pers on compute capital markets um and you'll be able to hedge your risk if you're a a data center owner um amongst other things. If you're just a speculator and you want to speculate on the demand for AI, right? for example, we saw this massive capex boom and then now we're kind of getting a pullback in the total capex and uh maybe that's a time to you know close potential longs on the price of compute

or or open them right and so um AI infrastructure is definitely one of the largest investment themes of the decade but this financialization of comput I think is a huge trend I did not get into this round um I think it was probably going to be a good one the the guys are in New York so if you guys want them on, I'll go out and try to get them on. I think it would be a good show because I think that this idea of uh financializing compute is something that is going to continue to grow. So, I like it. All right, guys. Let's keep it moving. Freedom guy says, "I like supporting as many good channels possible. This is one of my new faves."

Yes, sir. Appreciate you, man. Um, next up, we have near preparing for quantum era security. preparing near for the quantum era through flexible accounts with human readable ids and rotatable access Q access keys. Uh in this setup here specifically for near um accounts are not permanently tied to a single public key. They're which allows signature schemes to be upgraded without changing user addresses. Unlike more rigid account models, users could adopt NIST, which is like the quantum resistance standard uh approved signatures in place rather than having to move the assets to different wallets, which I think is pretty cool. As you

guys know, N's been a longtime supporter of the show, friend of the show. We've been bullish on them and I think that um you know I think that I think that they're a good team and I think that they're going to keep bit keep building for this postquantum signing scheme to be ready on test net by the end of Q2 2026 uh and then eventually mainet next year. So I think like the big problem with quantum here is that all all the all the holders of different nonquantum resistant chains which pretty much all of them have to transfer their funds to new wallets. This is the big conversation around Satoshi's wallet with Bitcoin. Near is basically coming out and saying, "Look, you don't have to do this with our setup where we're going to make it easy for you sometime next year." All right, guys. Let's keep it

rolling. Before we do, let me tell you about LeFi, building infrastructure for the future of crosschain swaps, bridging, and routing for smoother crosschain execution. Visit lee.fi to learn more. All right, guys. We've got a um interesting crypto momentum public stock offering from Rick Edelman. Uh he's arguing that crypto's momentum depends on industry backed PAC's electing and reelecting pro- crypto members of of Congress. As you guys know, we did see yesterday on the show, if you were watching, that there's a Clarity Act kind of like meeting, if you will, um that is hitting the hitting the House and the Senate in and and Congress

on July 17th, so about 3 weeks from now. Um so, let's see what Rick has to say about the Clarity Act here. If the crypto packs are successful at electing and reelecting to Congress crypto supporters like they did in 2024, then the crypto momentum will continue. But that's an open question right now because for the very first time, the crypto lobby is at odds with the banking lobby. In 2024, they were unified, which is why we were able to place into Congress so many strong crypto advocates from both parties. But the Clarity Act has put the crypto community at odds with the banking community. Frankly, we can blame Brian Armstrong for most of that. And as a result, we don't know who the candidates are going to win in

November. That is going to be the key determinant whether or not we maintain the momentum going forward. >> I think he's right. >> If the crypto packs are successful at electing and reelecting to Congress crypto supporters, like >> the we need this to go through in July. Like, it's not going to be the end all beall of everything. But if this doesn't go through in July, we're going to be we're going to be in some in some in some deep trouble, guys. And I firmly believe that. I firmly believe that. Um so, we're going to need to make sure that we see that through and get it through. All right, let's keep it rolling into Grove, the native token of the Grove protocol. Um they just introduced their token um and they are effectively announcing it as the native

token for Grove. So, this is like one of the more popular RWA protocols that I think is going to do well. Um, and I would anticipate that this token has some characteristics in it that we are kind of tracking as of late, right? We've we've been tracking the uh kind of like RWA sector, the uh revenue sector and the teams that are making [snorts] uh the future of this industry much more kind of institutional and really focused on the tokenization trend. So, Grove is one of them. Let's play this quick video. Just wanted to show you show this to you guys because I do feel like Grove has a decent chance at kind of being one of the better token launches of the year.

So, so it's coming, guys. It is coming. And I think that I think that is something to be excited about. I think it's something that that you should care about. And I'm going to watch it. I'm going to track it for you guys. Make sure that we're uh on top of it. and and watching it. Aubcon says, "Gm Andy, what's up, man?" You are you guys ready for FOMO? The co-founder of FOMO is in the tower. We got we've got one more. We've got our daily equity segment to go through as well. Uh that is our that is our next segment. Apparently, the the Rockaway X guys are um doing some sketchy things. I'm not exactly sure what they're doing, but basically the

the CEO of Rockaway is being sued by Soulmate in there was going to be a $200 million kind of like merger deal and apparently he had some fraudulent dealings in that deal and he's now being sued. And then Rockaway X came out and put out a different post about it saying [snorts] that you know they feel like there this deal didn't happen the way that they wanted to and you know there's going to be more more and more coming uh from their side. Rockaway X is a really big vault curator. I did not want to see them kind of like suffer here from some sort of legal battle. That's really not ideal. So, hope this kind of gets resolved and works itself out because

it's really just not not what you want to see. Uh, when do you think tokenized stocks will go live on base? I think it's pretty soon, man. I think it's really soon. Did we talk about micro strategy already? No, but we will. We certainly will. Uh, all right guys, we're going to get into the daily equity segment of the day and then we are going to get Seyong up on the show. He's in the tower ready for us. Uh, let's get into our daily equity segment powered by our friends at Dinart. All righty, guys. Tokenized stock trading activity reached $5.3 billion in monthly volume uh across all chains.

Monthly tokenized stock trading hit a volume record 5.3 billion as I said and if you look at the chart, it's absolutely flying. Um this is from Kobesci Letter. a really really popular uh kind of like macro account. He is he's centered around Salana here. The the total transfer volume of tokenized stocks on Salana. Um it surpassed 10 billion following 180 increase 180% increase notably led by SpaceX. Uh, Dinari says 33% of tokenized asset traders on Jupiter are active on weekends, highlighting demand clearly for the 247 access because obviously SpaceX launched on a Friday and so uh we saw that massive growth from SpaceX on a Friday. Um, and we'll continue to see

this. I think Salana is making a massive comeback with tokenized stocks, tokenized equities on chain being tradable and I'm really excited for this is like like the next cycle of speculation on chain is going to look so different than the previous cycle of memeled trading of uh kind of like onchain runners. Like there's going to be a lot of that as well once the kind of speculative mania returns. But right now, it's like very exciting to see these networks be used at scale for their purpose to trade any asset on chain. And I think it's going to be amazing. Bass is going to take over tokenized stock trading. Aerodone will benefit big time. We agree. Same thing with Jupiter. Same thing with um Backpack, Wormhole, etc. on the Salana

side. And so I think that the like there's a couple of really really big players hitting this space hard and I expect them to continue. So that's our daily equity for today. tokenized trading onchain is blowing up. I love to see it. I think it's a very important use case of a technology that we have here. Ladies and gentlemen, we have C. Young Park, the co-founder of FOMO, following their massive raise announcement this week, $75 million at a $550 million valuation is what I have here. We're going to be talking about what is FOMO, this kind of change in consumer behavior on chain, how it all works under the hood, and more with Seyon. Guys, don't go anywhere. We'll be right back now live from the

tokenization tower with the co-founder FOMO. [music] [music] Heat. Hey, Heat. [music] [music] [music] [music] >> [music]

>> We get deep. [music] We get deep. You know we get deep. You know we get deep. We get deep. You know we get deep. Know we get [music] deep. We get deep. Know we get deep. Know we get [music] deep. We get deep. Know we get deep. We get we get the money power [music] [music] big money.

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[music] >> We get deep. We get deep, you know. [music] We get deep. We get deep. We get deep. You know, we get deep. You know, we get deep. [music] We get deep. You know, we get deep. You know, [music] we get deep. We get deep know we get deep know we get deep [music] we get deep know we get deep we get we get deep we get deep we get [music] we get deep [music] know we get

>> [music] [bell] >> Going 70. >> All righty guys, we are live here in the

tokenization tower with Seyong Park. Se welcome to the show. Good to have you, man. Congrats on the recent race. >> Thanks, man. Thank you for having me. >> Yeah, man. It's a nice view. Not not not too bad, huh? >> I was telling you earlier, but I see my house from here. So, great view. >> Yeah, man. Nice. Nice. Well, thanks for coming in. I know it's been a busy week for you. Um, you guys announced that raise and just kind of uh the growth on the app side has been fantastic. It's your first time on the show, man. I know you have history in DeFi at DYDX and just kind of building trading systems. Maybe you can just kind of give us a quick rundown on how you got into DeFi, what what your kind of unique founder edge is. Yeah.

>> Yeah. So, I I started my career in traditional finance and investment banking. And I think this was right around 2021 when, you know, markets were hot, Bitcoin was at all-time highs, and a lot of my friends were starting to trade on chain, but I just didn't really have the funds to start trading on Ethereum just like everyone else. So, I kind of waited and waited and then there was an account that had leaked the bridge to this new chain, avalanche. And that was an interesting moment because it was like okay you can actually you know pay cheap gas fees you can trade on chain you can do things easy or at least easy at the time and then was able to just like start trading really started using different protocols and then um my co-founder now Paul he actually had left the same job that we were at to go join

DYDX as their first BD hire 6 months later he said hey we're trying to build out the team I know you're into crypto why don't you come over here and we can run this together so we did that and ended up scaling the book of business from maybe five or so market makers at the time to about 150 a lot of guys and Trady, a lot of the crypto market makers and really just built an understanding of, you know, how um exchanges worked, how consumers work, how institutions work. And I think through all of that, my my my core kind of principle has always been, you know, be product driven. So they actually moved me over to become the core trading product manager there are there and was able to just really get nitty-gritty you know what do users like what don't they like what are the things that they're

expressing that they don't like which you know might cause these issues down the line or these like frustrations and so on and so forth. So always had this kind of consumer first product first um mindset and I think that's carried us a really long way because our entire team is very product focused and that's really important when you build a consumer app. Yeah, man. I mean, it feels like this entire industry is kind of like bifurcated into like this institutional RWA, stable coin tokenization. Like that's become the that's what all the L1s are like pivoting to what all the kind of projects that are trying to figure out what their product market fit are. And then you've got like this still a small sliver of consumer oriented brands and chains like the Mega Ethan base and Salana kind of still just staying, you

know, true to the consumer side. You've got apps like FOMO, like Pump, etc. that are staying true to like the the consumer side, but it's really few and far between in the market now. Obviously, onchain retail has been slowed down and it will come back, but you know, there's just this really strong bifurcation. There's a lot less happening in the consumer side now and a lot more like pivoting or focus or refocusing into kind of like fintech web 2.5 kind of thing. Yeah. >> Yeah. I actually think that's contrary to what people think actually pretty positive for the space because you you just want crypto and the blockchain to be the technology that people use whether they know it or not. And I think more institutional adoption means, you know, there's bigger players that get involved. There's institutions, there's

more sophisticated players. And it kind of trickles down over time to the point where, you know, people are going to be using crypto whether they know it or not. And I view that to be just a net positive for everyone, even if you're not building uh in the consumer space at this moment. So, you know, for us that's exciting because you're expanding the industry, the technology, the things that are being built on top of it. And we want to be able to access that and offer it to all users on uh the platform. >> Yeah, exactly. And I mean you so with FOMO, you can still access this kind of growth of onchain tokenized equities or you know like like the SpaceX launch, it was on Salana, right? You can still kind of uh trade all these like higher quality assets like like people are

asking for higher quality assets now. That's kind of like the main question. Um, and so on FOMO, you you guys have built it in kind of like this modular flexible way such that any asset that is tradable on chain is available on FOMO. May maybe you could just like walk us through what that what that like thesis is of kind of this social first trading. Uh why you why you believe that this is the future of kind of trading in general. >> Yeah. So I think one of the core beliefs that we have is people historically have never been able to be early enough, right? So even in the stock market, you know, you have to wait till IPO. You can't buy pre IPO, you can't buy early investments. You kind of get priced out, you know, before you really have a chance. I think it's actually a very

similar experience for coins that get listed on centralized exchanges, right? By the time that coin launches, it's already raised, you know, 15 rounds and they're going to come out at 3 billion or, you know, it takes whatever 6 months for them to list a token like Hype. So our core belief is that if you want to do things earlier, you should be able to. So if that means the token is created, you should be able to buy that thing immediately. we should be able to put guard rails around this so you're not getting scammed. You know, it's coming from trusted sources for launch partners and for parties, but we just want to be at the core of that. And the thing we get asked a lot is like, okay, well, you're building a social layer. You let people buy things early. Why can't, you know, the incumbents, why

can't like Coinbase or Robin Hood or Binance build the same thing and let people just access things on chain? They can, but I like to think that the best traders on chain are not trading on those platforms today, right? They're trading on chain directly, whether it's through FOMO, a trading terminal, a Phantom, whatever it is. So by nature of that, you know, you can still build a social layer, but those users are always going to be late to our users. Yeah. So the earliest thing is always going to happen on FOMO. And I think if you think about, you know, how that evolves over time, that just means it's in your best interest as a user to be on FOMO because the best traders, the best social network, and it's incubating, you know, the best talent from day one as opposed to adding it at a later point.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And and so the community dynamic I feel like for markets has drastically increased since I would say I feel like GME kind of really kicked off this like Roaring Kitty leading these group of you know investors to you know take it to Citadel, take it to the hedge funds and then now you have I mean just this continuous like era of financialization with you know streaming and trading and X adding hashtags when you were starting FOMO. Obviously, this was kind of still, you know, happening, but I feel like the the tides have just shifted more and more in your favor as far as like the way that prediction

markets have evolved, the way that, you know, trading and streaming and this entire kind of like concept has grown. How do you like obviously things are path dependent when you're doing when you're building businesses there's a lot of things outside of your control but as far as like the external factors goes like we're in a raging AI stock market bull market obviously crypto's down a bit but like don't you feel that a lot of the factors externally to what your your internal vision is are working in your favor in terms of like the broad macro shift in the way people are investing and kind of trading and gambling today.

>> I think so. I think that's right. And a lot of this has been accelerated by AI like you said. So one of the things we talk about a lot is you know if you go on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, whatever it is, there's a lot more content today, right? There's a lot more short form. It's very easy to put out essays, tweets, articles, whatever it is. So once you get to this point where, you know, AI is getting so good that it's probably replacing, you know, manual content entirely. Now you're left with just what I don't want to call it AI slot, but let's just say AI content, right? And in that point, it doesn't really take much to be, you know, the best threader or the best article guy or the best, you know, short form content guy. Like these things are going to

commoditize. So our view here is okay, what can't be commoditized by AI and it's dollars. It's risk, right? >> Dollars are real. You can't just get AI to produce you more dollars unless you, you know, do something very specific. So we think that, you know, social network is going to actually be grounded on who is right most of the time. And these are going to be the people who build themselves up to be the next celebrities, the next, you know, Mr. beast of the world the next you know whoever uh Elons whoever it is that have big presence in social media it's going to be how much did you risk how much will you write and how often are you able to articulate these views via the form of thesis and long form content because it's it's harder it's harder and harder to like attach an AI thesis to

like a coin that launched three days ago right there's not enough information or cultural event it's kind of like tastem in modern day sure and I think that all of these things are contributing to social just being so important when it comes to the financial graph >> yeah um Jake says FOMO helped me hold Jachua Gachua must be a new new onchain runner on Salana. Uh what FOMO is building for adapting crypto worldwide range. I'm not sure what that means. Um when it comes to like the vision that you were pitching to what I come to understand is more of like uh I would call them like web 2.5 web like traditional AI investors from Silicon Valley, USV and a couple others. What was the vision that you laid out?

because you you kind of explained where we are now. But let's fast forward, right? We're in the next crypto bull run. Bitcoin's, you know, breaking all-time highs, probably next year or early in the following year. You know, onchain is heated up again. There's this era of tokenized equity trading. Prediction markets have grown substantially in terms of market awareness, volume, right? We're just in a different kind of state on chain like like what is this vision that you told your investor base to really get them to commit? >> Yeah. Yeah. So, funny enough, I think the best investors, you don't tell them, they tell you, right? You kind of are aligned in the same vision. And it's very easy to understand, right? I think the hardest conversations we've had are with people who can't really seem to align on the vision and understand where the world's going. But it's kind of

similar to when you went from like paper trading to electronic trading. We think the next evolution is blockchain trading. And I think the smartest people in the world are seeing that, right? They've seen thematically this thing happen over and over and over again. So they're able to see and identify threads like okay this looks very similar to what looked you know very non-obvious 15 years ago or 40 years ago whenever so a lot of these conversations are just like okay we agree on what this is going to look like how are you going to get there and that's really where all the details are kind of made right it's like how do you get to the next you know 10 million 100 million billion users how do you actually build this more and more intuitively how do you add all the products you need to and our journey you

know we started off in spot on Salana we've added a couple of other chains we just added per So hold on. So you start off as spot as like this trading terminal, right? It was kind of like this like interface to trade any any salon asset on. >> Yes. >> But it also had the social aspect. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> And then we started to add more chains, right? Because you can't be an application that's onedimensional, right? You need to be able to service users wherever they want to be, right? And our slogan is never miss out again. So that means any chain, any asset class, any news events, anything that really goes on, you should be the first to know and the first to be able to trade it. And you know we all know if you look at any price chart or any asset

you know the the price action precedes the news right so you always see it start to move before the thing actually happens and because of the way FOMO is built you get to actually see this in real time and then see how people are articulating the thoughts on top of these uh these actions that are happening. So, so you would then describe FOMO and it is current state as a trading terminal that provides you with the ability to uh tail people in groups and have market uh news and like like could you just kind of explain what FOMO is? I we we should have done this 10 minutes ago, but yeah.

>> Yeah. I I think terminal is probably the wrong word here. Okay. Um, I think terminal, you know, you typically associate it, let's say, with like a Bloomberg terminal, right? Very advanced tool. Only a select few people use it. It's just not the right interface for most people in the world. I think that's the same for trading terminals today where you have all this data with bundles and transactions and wallet clusters and all these things and they're just not something that normal person will ever want to understand to be honest. So, you need to be able to articulate this in very different ways, right? So, that's where plain text English comes in, right? You don't have to actually read alpha numeric public keys. You don't have to read, you know, what percentage supply is being moved around different wallets and you can just see, okay, you know, Andy owns this

coin. This is the thesis and this is why he holds it. So, it's very very clear. So, ultimately what FOMO is supposed to be is a trading app for, you know, everybody, right? We like to say a trading app for the rest of us. And it's an application where you can buy any asset very seamlessly. You're using cryptogards, but you don't have to understand what blockchains are, gas fees or or priority fees or anything in between. We take care of all that for you. And then you can just do that for every asset class that exists. as everything comes on chain, we believe the world is going to be, you know, built on the blockchain itself. So we want to be the ones that can steward that in some capacity and obviously we hope there's many others that can do this as well. But ultimately our vision

here is to expand the pie and to you know educate people through social and and allow them to really develop their own understanding of things. >> Yeah. Yeah. And then on the business side what's the business lines of FOMO and what is the most successful uh you know revenue generating aspect of the business? >> It's just fees today. It's just revenue on um transactions that happen on the platform and it's you know we we tap into all the MM pools we tap into hyperl perpetuals and these are the people who are actually providing the actual execution but for us we are adding an added benefit which is ease which is social which is just understanding better in education. So that's where the revenue comes from today. Um if you ask me like hey would you sacrifice all of your revenue for the next 10 years to

grow let's say 100% every month the answer would definitely be yes like at the end of the day our job is not really to maximize revenue. We have lower fees than most other terminals. You know, we try to um support costs like, you know, gas fees and priority fees and bridging fees, etc. where we can. And our goal is just to, you know, expand the pie and to get people to actually understand what FOMO is and to use it and to on board new people into the space. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For for sure. What have been some of the um successful um like trading groups or stories from FOMO that can kind of give the listeners a tangible understanding of like you know why you know downloading this app using it would be something that they'd be interested in.

>> Yeah. So, I mean there's a lot of success stories and you know we try not to bias towards any but I think one that everybody has kind of heard of um at least on the crypto Twitter side of things is um you know this coin white whale and Remis he >> he was he's a good trader you know he's been around for a while I think at the time he probably didn't have too much balance on his FOMO but he put $500 into this token and at its peak it's worth $1.7 million right so he holds the token for a while he's like you know bringing the community up he's kind of I think stewarding it in the right way Everything is public, so if he sells, you can see it. He'll kind of update his thesis over time. And I think, you know,

the the sticker number of 500 to 1.7 million is great. But I think the more impressive thing is if you look on his Twitter today, he probably went from 1 2,000 followers to 35,000 in a matter of months. And that's something we want to continue to support, right? Like I I think that success stories are incredibly important and people should be able to build audiences based off the things that they do. And I actually think over time, you know, we need to figure out a way for these creators on our platform to actually be able to monetize their following, whether it's subscriptions or friend style, you know, gated chat rooms or, you know, [ __ ] style, like something that provides value to the audience and they would be willing to pay for. That's incredibly important because every social platform in the world, as you get bigger, your

experience gets better, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, somebody says just kind of a bit more nuanced on the fees. What are the fees? And the user will pay the hyperlquid or AMM swap fees plus FOMO fees all for the social features. Question mark. Bit of a pointed question here. What value are they getting for the fees that they're paying? And what are the fees? >> The fees are uh 0.5%. And then you can get a 10% discount referral code um for that spot. And then for major tokens, so Bitcoin, Salana, like you can think about anything that's listed on traditional centralized exchange, it's actually five basis points. So it's a lot cheaper than if you were to go to Coinbase for the first time, you'd have to pay 1.5%. Robin Hood, there's all these, you know, associated fees. So, we want to be the cheapest place for you to

trade, you know, entirely, right? And that's important to us, right? We can't really do anything about the underlying fees themselves. Maybe we can integrate with partners who charge you less or, you know, subsidize some of it like we do on some of the on-ramping stuff. And, you know, I think fees at the end of the day is not the right way we think about growth. It's just another metric that, you know, allows us to, you know, support the business itself, to do new things, get back to users, and, you know, all the stuff in between. Um it's it's things like that that led us to you know the monet air drop we did where we [clears throat] pretty much were able to give users you know close to a million dollars based off their participation in the network. Um so yeah there's a lot of

cool stuff that you know working on there and hopefully this actually goes closer to zero over the course of time as more and more people are competing in the space. >> Yeah. Yeah. And so when it comes to kind of like the the onchain pie growing here um obviously we're in a a bit of a depressed market right now. onchain uh is not nearly what it you know has been in the past. And then we've also seen like evolutions of onchain activity. Ethereum in 2020 and 2021 was very hot. Then you had the the rise of Salana and L2s a little bit but in that era Salana really dominated. Then kind of base kind of got its feet under itself. Then we've moved into Hyperlid now where it's like pers and ps and ps and trade anything.

Now we're now we're about to get tokenized equities on chain on spot markets. So, you know, we saw Backpack and Wormhole and Sunrise launch SpaceX and crush that. Hyperlid has PERPS for SpaceX. They crush that. So, like I'm curious, what do you believe? Because as an entrepreneur, right, you you're always thinking about what's next. How do you position your product to be uh ready for the next thing? And obviously, we're kind of in the I think we're close to the end of this bare market. Couple more months probably uh fall hopefully. And so when you think about like productwise, roadmap wise, focus-wise, what is your kind of like bigger prediction or thesis for like what's next? Obviously, it's more people coming on chain, but like give us a bit more nuance on on like why or how or what are

they trading and then how are you building the product stack or your road map or your kind of way of of articulating what you're doing in accordance with what you believe like kind of broadly speaking wise is coming next for onchain. >> Yeah, I think we think about it in two ways. one is like what does the market look like because that informs you know how much time we have to do things versus fixing issues or improving you know whatever's to come so I think you know we probably feel very similarly that you know this feels like it's getting close to the end of the the bare market we've actually never operated in a bull market so you know this is all just like let's say theoretical but in our minds you know the busiest times are times where you're just putting out fires you're improving the experience

for users you're fixing issues you're you're really just always on the ground trying to like improve the thing that's in front of bare markets which we are now are time for us to take a step back and build new features right so we added a web app we added Ethereum mainet we added per on the last two months we have the luxury to do this in this market and it's something that we know that the user wants there's a few things there that you know we hope to improve on on the product fund entirely but yeah it's just going to be market contingent on you know what we're able to do and how fast we're able to do things I think thinking about it from another lens which is like okay what do you want to actually build you know let's say all things constant

we want to be able to offer you anything you know you want to speculate on right so yield I think is an incredibly underserved opportunity for most of the world, right? I bank with Chase and I tried to make a savings account. They said, "Hey, you can earn, you know, 0.2% on all of your money here." And you know, Chase Bank is probably one of the banks that actually gives you actual tier, right? Like most other banks don't even offer that. They say, "Hey, you get 0%. This is not for you." Versus everybody in the world should be able to tap into an app like FOMO, deposit money, earn 4% or whatever the treasury bill is, and then, you know, greater amounts if they want to tap into different forms of risk. So I think that that is something that's just like an equitable need that the world needs to

be able to tap into. And then another thing is prediction markets, right? I think we're still very early on in what prediction markets can look like. Right now they're used for very mainstream events, but think about like if you get to this point where you can do localized markets, you can, you know, bet on longtail. You can just like permissionlessly spin up markets and provide liquidity to them. I think that end state is actually one of the most incredible um exciting things that finance can offer. If you can get to this point where, you know, you can place your opinion on anything in the world. I don't know how we'll get there. I'm sure there's a lot more smarter people than I am that are working on that issue, but that's something we're excited about and we're keeping an eye on what this looks like and how we can

actually support stewarding that into the uh broader world. >> Yeah, man. How many people are on the um team right now? >> We have 13 in New York today and then we have three people who are remote. Um we we have a few more people that you know we we hope to have us join uh join us in the next few months but we're relatively lean. I think um a lot of companies think okay raise around go hire you know 5x the amount of people you have and just scale. We think that the lean team advantage is something that suits us best where we can work very strongly very closely together everybody has a product sense and it's a very flat organization at FOMO where you know everybody has a say and can contribute to whatever ownership barrier they think is the most important.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And are you are you using uh AI a lot to scale different operations internally? What is like like obviously the on the engineering side um you know the whole game of engineering has changed quite a bit. How how are you leveraging AI internally to kind of help yourself scale >> a lot of ways? I mean I think AI is able to write a lot of code these days and I would say like you know a vast majority of our code is now written by AI but with very specific harnesses and guard rails and checks and you know reviews I think it's incredibly important that like you can actually still write high quality code so for that reason you know we still are able to check all these things very manually make sure that it's up to par and then I actually think the

biggest level up has been on the non-engineering side where you can now have your growth lead push a PR directly to the app because it's a visual bug on the front or it's a campaign they want to run or they can, you know, use whatever AI services to ingest all the data and create better telemetry. Like I actually think that this is the most exciting thing for us because now you can actually take a bunch of roles that you would have had to do one-off things and then condense them into things um in the hands of people who are very high agency. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then on the app side of things, people say like, "Oh, you know, um I I want to trade with an LLM." Like I interface like a company called Liquid launched this kind of like LLM AI first uh trading um platform I

guess and you know like the thesis is that you can go into LLM, write what you want to do, talk to it about your trade ideas and then execute trades directly from that kind of interface. Do you see that as something that FOMO wants to uh or is thinking about kind of their users interacting with an LLM to make trades on the platform or how do you think about that kind of uh side of things? >> Yeah, I think we have a view on Agentic Trading to be that it's going to be a very good resource, right? So, it's going to be able to research things that you're interested in, give you commentary on what's going on and just advance your thought processes through different domains. Yeah.

>> I don't think we believe we're ever going to get to this point where it's just performing actions on your behalf, right? Cuz you think of a world where like everybody's doing that then nobody's doing it, right? because you're just competing at the same level of infra. You're kind of getting your lunch eaten by people who have more sophisticated knowledge and it just doesn't really feel like the uh the path that that we're going to go on as humans. Um but we do think it's an incredible resource and you know if you want to place a trade by saying okay I know exactly what I'm going to buy like let's say go dollar cost Ethereum for the next 12 hours if it's under this price you should be able to type that in and get it done. So, I think that that is a model that's pretty compelling, but

yeah, I think that we're very far away if you know, if we even ever get there, to be at the point of like fullon agentic trading. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Um, you know, thinking about this what what you said at the top here about being early. Yeah. >> Right. I think that's something that, you know, we we come on the show every day and talk about our thesis is we talk about, you know, the things that we're buying, the things that we're selling, where we think we're at in the market, etc., etc. We're always trying to kind of like, you know, our biggest strength, I think, in my investing career and through the show has just been like kind of like longer swing trades, getting into spot positions with decent size, riding thesises for several weeks to months, and then exiting. It's usually not short-term leverage. It's usually

not short-term uh trading. It's usually not shorting. It's usually long only spot market buys for, you know, one month, three months, six months, even a year. Uh, and kind of like that's been the that's been the the way that I've done the best onchain and just in general in crypto. Um, when it comes to being early on FOMO, you know, what like unique advantages or uh what is the process for me to actually uh, you know, reap the rewards of being early through FOMO? H how does that work?

and what can I do to help my listeners who come in tune in day and day out to kind of like help them grow, help us grow. >> Yeah, I think trading in crypto is inherently very social, right? Like if you think about even you know from as early as 2017 like coins used to move when you had a big account talk about it and expressive view because I think that a lot of people converge to you know you know converge and find confluence in the people they think are smart. Yeah. >> So I think you can use FOMO in a very similar light, right? Where you know on Twitter you don't follow people that you think are nefarious or going to scam you or pump and dump on you. So you should do the same on FOMO. You should find the people that you think are credible

actors who align with your time horizon, your investment thesis strategy and you know the way you do things and I really understand, right? Because I think the best things that or the best traits that I've had in my life have been through confluence, right? So it's like, hey, you know, I'm looking at this spot. I think that's a really good coin. They have a lot of good tailwinds. Nobody's really talking about it. So like I respect your opinion. What do you think? And typically it's been, you know, some back and forth, but then you'll have the one guy that, you know, you really respect saying, you know, I I could see what you're saying. I think that like I'm going I'm going to take this trade too. Let's do it. And then you end up, you know, executing well. At least historically, I've done the best when

I've um found confidence with people that I think are smart. So use as a tool, right? People are going to write their thesis, which you don't always get access to the thoughts of people in, you know, in very I would say large um influential settings, right? These people are talking in group chats, they're talking in private communities. They're not always giving you their their thoughts on private in in public. Yeah. So we want to expose what's in private into the public by giving you this, you know, benefit of you can actually become the biggest creator on FOMO if you are expressing these thoughts early, giving your audience, you know, the right things and the right thesis and guiding them in the right ways. So I would just say find the right people that align to your investment strategy. Understand why they're buying things. Hopefully we find more ways for

you to interact with these people and ask them questions. It's a two-way street. And then just, you know, follow your guts, right? Like you're going to have your own view. Find confluence where you can, find, you know, invalidations where you can, and then try to make the best decisions over whatever time horizon is best for you. >> Yeah, dude. How much of your time is spent like trading and using FOMO versus like building it? >> Yeah. I would say early days, I probably traded on it every day, you know, multiple hours a day, like just, you know, really battle testing the product. I I uh I did a challenge that I ran 5K to 250K, you know, the first month of FOMO just to show like, okay, here you can do it and I'm going to do it in public and I'm going to use the same

resources that you and I have and get this thing done. >> Today, I would say that as you start to grow the organization, add new product features and we don't have a product team. So, everybody, you know, the co-founders, all the engineers, all the growth people have to be incredibly product focused. >> Um, so my job actually, I would say most of my day is talking to users. Like I really really love, you know, waking up to hundreds of DMs, group chat messages on what we, you know, are doing terribly, what we can do better, what new features to add. And I think that breaks a lot of people. But for us, that's like keep telling us all of that. Like we want to know all of it. We want to improve. And I don't take it personally. None of us do. Uh it's, you

know, just like you're a user and you have frustrations, we want to hear them and we'll fix it. >> Yeah. FOMO, man. What an incredible name for a trading app as well, huh? Uh, last thing from my side, what do you what are you going to use primarily the funds on? You're going to be, you know, you raised $75 million. Obviously, you've said that you're, you know, trying to keep the team lean. How do you how do you plan to best utilize the new capital? Obviously, you also have a high valuation on on your head now as well. It's more pressure. There's going to be uh, you know, there's there's there's upsides to that and there's drawbacks to that. you know, just give us your well-rounded take on using the capital, why kind of that valuation made sense and just kind of like where you're at on the

financials and kind of like scaling side. >> Yeah. So, um, one of the things that was really important to us was like, you know, we didn't need to raise the money, right? We actually haven't touched a single venture dollar that we've raised to this point. And for that reason, it's not, you know, you need a financial constraint, go raise the money, figure out what to do with it. I think for us, it was really about bringing in good partners, right? We get to bring in some of the people who have scaled a lot of organizations we respect. Robin Hood, Coinbase, Revolute, Twitter. These are all just organizations that we highly respect and think have done a really good job just in the world of either finance or social. Um, and then you had Benchmark who letter A who's pretty much done every other social app in the

world. So >> I think it's just having the right people in the right room to advise on, you know, what they've seen, where they think things are going, how we can, you know, align on the best direction for strategy and the things that are highest leverage. And you know, I think I would love to be here saying, you know, we're going to spend this much money on this, we're going to do this and scale this, but I think our general philosophy is like we're going to do the thing that's working. You know, really double down, go 5x, 10x on, you know, whatever the thing is really working, not spread oursel thin across a number of different mediums or acquisition um channels and just kind of feel where the market is going and just do the thing we think will put us in the best place to succeed

over time. >> Yeah. Ladies and gentlemen, that is Sey Young Park from FOMO, the co-founder, following their $75 million raise. Thanks for your time. Great conversation, guys. We're going to be right back going over markets, charts, and then we're going to have more of an institutional conversation with Chainlink's new institutional head of development. Don't go anywhere, guys. Fun episode. We'll be right back. [music] [music] [music] Heat.

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Going 70. Alrighty guys, we are back here in the nest live from the tokenization tower. We've got Andrew McCormack, the head of institutional development at Chainlink joining us. Andrew, welcome to the show. Good to have you. >> Yes. I feel like the Andy and Andrew show could be a thing, you know, a band. >> That's where we're at, man. That's where we're at. Well, congrats on the new role at Chain Link Institutional Development.

I just had a conversation with uh the FOMO co-founder who is very much so on the consumer side and I kind of illuminated to him that from our perspective the space has evolved dramatically into this kind of bifurcated world of consumer onchain finance prediction markets per trading kind of all of the onchain speculative uh happenings and this RWA tokenization stable coin fintech almost like web 2.5 iteration of digital assets And you guys are, you know, Chainlink's very clearly kind of the connector of both worlds in in in in a sense, DeFi, Trady. So, welcome to the show. Good to have you on, Andrew. Um, >> happy to be here. First podcast in a new role, so it's a joy and a privilege.

>> Yes, man. Yes, man. So, tell us about uh your previous time in markets and in Trafi and and kind of building out different systems and and uh all the learnings there and then bringing that into chain link. I would love to just get a bit of a background on you. >> Yeah, I'd love to. It always makes me feel a little old when I say the numbers, but I've been in investing in capital markets for 16 years. Yeah. And in crypto for almost a decade. So, ranged from the large institutions like Morgan Stanley to it Toro and now Chain Link. And throughout those 16 years, my job has always been helping investors and institutions navigate the sometimes complicated plumbing and regulatory infrastructure of capital markets and

finance. And so this year I thought, you know, after working helping people navigate the plumbing, let me be like Mario and Luigi and let's actually build the plumbing. And like you said, chain link is a key link to this whole ecosystem. So super excited to be here. >> Yeah, man. And I mean so in your time then in the trading uh kind of arena e Toro etc. you you working on uh the New York bit license as well. So you clearly saw this um you know trend of blockchain based digital asset trading whether it be the 247 nature the programmable nature but something kind of like stood out to you um in that time like obviously the space was far less uh developed and I think like the reputation was also far less uh

positive. I think stable coins like did a 180 on the public perception of digital assets. Just give us a bit of a insight into like what the what the outlook on digital assets was when you were there at E Toro. Were you guys even thinking about it? Did you guys think of it as a threat? Was it just kind of like this little fraud little industry? What what was kind of the state of affairs there? >> Yeah, I can even go back a step further when I was at Erade and this is when I first got into crypto almost 10 years ago. I started like looking at podcasts at nighttime and to diving through Twitter and learning as much as I could and I was at E Train. I was like, "Guys, we got to do something in this space."

But in 2017, everyone's like, "What is crypto? What are you talking about? I seen 60 Minutes or some kind of show and it sounds maybe sketchy, but I believed it and I was like, these worlds of DeFi and blockchain and trady, it's coming together. Not as quickly as any of us probably want, but it's going to happen." Yeah. And so I think at Erade I gave the very first cryptocurrency presentation ever. It's called the cryptocurrency commotion because back then it was just all noise. >> What year was that? >> 2017. >> Nice. >> So that was on the when Bitcoin was going from one to two to five to 20 >> and came over to E Toro because E Toro had been a leader in the digital asset space and doing traditional investing.

And so I was like I'm going to go further down into this role and even Toro were the first platform to offer Bitcoin in Europe in a regulated way. I think back to 2013 and >> wow. >> So never at eal never saw it as a threat but we saw that this is going to change everything and not just like hey the trading of bitcoin or eer link or dogecoin but our entire ecosystem is going to change and I have loved that idea since 2017. I love it in 2026. >> Yeah. >> I've aged a lot in those nine years, learned a lot in those nine years. A lot of challenges but >> it's a once in a lifetime kind of opportunity we're all living in.

>> Yeah. Yeah, man. And so then obviously you know quite the tenure I think like that tenure is very soughta now in the digital assets landscape as this industry kind of you know becomes more sophisticated and matures it's becoming more like financial services and fintech than it is kind of this isolated revolutionaryesque environment. Um I think a lot of there that that's actually the driving force of a lot of this kind of like sentiment gap between what we're calling like this institutional tokenization bull market and this kind of like token bear a like the industry is going through a bit of an identity crisis. You came into the space then into chain link. What what drew you to chain link? Uh why do you feel that this is uh the best opportunity for yourself and for the

industry at large? Yeah. So this is such a unique moment where these worlds are colliding together and that's a story I want to be part of and chain link is the key part of that whole story right whether it's DeFi blockchains you know needing data chain link does that whether it's the largest financial institution in the world needing blockchain data or wanting to hook into the blockchain that's chain link or all those worlds coming together and the fact that I could be part of that story but part of a firm that is key part of that ecosystem system no matter which way it goes.

>> Yeah. Yeah, >> found super appealing and just over the years I had seen chain link folks at conferences and events and reading on X and it's something I had thought about a long time and so >> when we started discussing it this year definitely wanted to chase it and it >> makes me very thankful every single day and this is bit of a throwback but I first got into Chain Link Labs and the the story on Twitter like 2019 2020 >> saw a job posting in 2020 thought about applying but I didn't cuz at the time my wife was like deathly ill with cancer.

>> Oh, >> she beat it twice. >> Wow. >> We got through that and I'm here today. So when I'm here today I'm thankful to be part of the chain community but also reminds me of like hey life goes up and down and twists and turns just like markets but you try and learn from it and when you're in the upside you you're thankful. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, you've spent years in the kind of institutional finance landscape and then obviously now coming coming at it from the chain link first lens and from the digital assets first lens. Um man, from your conversations as of as of late, whether it be on the adoption side, the integration side, sales side, you know, what has materially changed from your view on either the acceleration of the

adoption, the openness of institutional allocators, their needs, their wants, their perspective. kind of give us a a lay of the land here and then we can start to get into some more nuanced conversations about kind of this integration that's happening from your recent conversations over the I mean you've been at Chiling for a couple of weeks but um you know what what is it that you're actively seeing out there on the ground through these conversations with uh asset managers firms etc. all financial services is moving in this space. I it's hard to think of a firm that's like hey we're not going to touch this space not going to explore this space >> even just you know throw back to a couple years ago two years ago a lot of firms are thinking should we do something in this space yes no a year ago it was what should we do and now

it's how do we do it and so I think everybody has realized this is where this is going and this is not about throwing away the existing system it's about making it better stronger more accessible faster more efficient and so whether you're the biggest bank or couple college guys in their dorm room like coming up with a cool idea like this is a technology that there's being sought out for. So now it's just a question of how do we do it whereas before it was should we do something. >> Yeah. Yeah. It is right. It's it's shifted right and it's also shifted from it's also shifted from like first they um you know they don't pay any attention then they laugh at you then they fight you right. We're kind of in like that in that then they fight you moment for at least some of it. um PERB specifically,

you got the CME and NASDAQ kind of uh trying to kind of hinder the the scaling of PERPS in the US with Koshi and Hypquid and these others and uh and it kind of goes across the board there. When it comes to kind of the actual use cases that you see chain link really filling a big part of uh for this space. Obviously, we know kind of the data story of Chainlink, but there's a lot of other stories as far as like the certifications goes, the runtime environment broadly, kind of the uh ability to kind of connect banks and do a lot of these things.

>> You know, what are you seeing as some of the most impactful use cases on the ground for chain link through through these conversations? And um you know what is driving the most amount of uh positive feedback loops uh you think in the chain link ecosystem with these in institutions. So financial institution wants to move on to blockchain but they want to always do that thoughtfully securely and with accurate data and I think chain link hits all those buckets. So the worst thing that a financial firm could do is develop years and years or months and months whatever is on your product roadmap something goes wrong especially if you're a publicly traded bank or institution like that and you're going to pay significant price chain link been doing this for over seven

years secure strong data strong performance can help institutions get to market much quicker than building it themselves and so it's just that desire to like let's move on chain you have the experience show us how we can do this securely and efficiently. Um so like the the new platform the CR chain link runtime environment that's a great way where firms can plug in um how they want and run it how they want and but also in a secure fashion. I've seen from my experience nothing can end a firm and a dream and a hope and entrepreneurial vision quicker than security and chain link that's our top priority and so in that kind of lens yesterday [ __ ]

announced a uh project pangia which is a multinational banking consortia here of 50 plus banks representing over 10 trillion dollars of aum to unlock T plus0 crossber settlement via chain link and the ISO 2022 22 standard or 222 standards. Um what is project PNG's relevance and importance to kind of unlocking this uh let's say a bit more restricted banking environment and things like tokenized deposits, stable coins, project pen up kind of bringing them together. Give us kind of the nuts and bolts of what this is, why it's important, you know, what's got you fired up about it.

>> Yeah, first the name is cool, right? A lot of times in finance you don't have cool names like project pangia. So definitely fired up about that. And something through this project that I even learned. >> Can you guess what the largest financial market in the world is? >> Uh the repo market. >> It's actually FX trading. >> Yeah. >> Like in the US we don't hear about it as much. It's more overseas but it's 10 approximately like 10 trillion dollars a day. >> Wow. >> Whereas US equities a trillion or so a day. So this is a project in the FX market, the largest market in the world.

A lot of European institutions, Korean institutions trying to make um FX trading T plus0 instant atomic swaps um interoperability. So regardless of stable coin, the chain it can work together and powered by chain link. And the fact that this is the world's largest market with some of the world's largest institutions. This is not the end of the story, but I think a very strong beginning of the story to just try to make markets quicker, more efficient, and give people flexibility. Yeah. >> And going back to like the, you know, if you're an institution and you're trying to build something, >> the fact the market goes so quick, it may take you a year to develop something and then the markets move past you and you don't know where it's going. But

what's great with chain link whether you're building on Ethereum, Salana, avalanche, whatever it may be, chain link can give you that flexibility in the future when new chains emerge to, you know, have crosschain inter operability. And so project pangia is yeah day day two of that announcement. But really really excited about it. >> Yeah. So chain link is providing the data interrupt and orchestration standards for this for regulated euro and KRW Korea stable coins. uh direct atomic PVP swaps uh for these stable coins. So like there's kind of two things happening here, right? There's the adoption of stable coins and tokenized deposits from some of the largest banks which is like inside the US there was some push back about clarity and about how there was going to

be a deposit flight. So that's kind of happening and then simultaneously you have so you have the acceptance of the stable coin part and the tokenized deposit part and then you've got the uh utilization of a company like chain links technology. So like two big steps here from kind of what what like we'd call legacy financial infrastructure. um you know looking forward what what do you think this project PGIs signals to other banks to the market as far as like moving on this and actually you know implementing some similar practices implementing tokenized deposit stable coins like what signal does this send to the broader banking world about chain link and about kind of like where innovation is happening for banks

>> I think the real secret sauce is T plus0 and this shows that that's possible And if you're not part of that group and you're doing FX trading and you do a trade and you have to wait 24 hours, 48 hours, if there's a weekend, even longer to get your funds, you're going to want to move to that. And so I think you're going to see not just an FX space, but a a move to T plus0 across all financial institutions. It reduces risk, reduces collateral requirements, enables firms to have more flexibility, more control of their money. And I think that's a really powerful nugget here of like T plus0 atomic swaps and through project Pangia and I think there'll certainly be a lot more to come.

>> Yeah man. So there's just been this large growth of tokenized equities as well on chain specifically with SpaceX. There was this massive kind of FOMO around buying that, longing it, shorting it, whatever, whether it be on Salana, Hyperlquid, wherever. um you guys have this interesting product called equity streams and and you're able to to kind of like build these uh global equity streams via chain link providing data uh about the pricing of these assets. Uh you guys just announced something in APAC specifically around equity streams.

You know, I'm curious your view on like the rise of tokenized equities on chain in general and just like tokenized asset trading. A lot of the industry wants to see better assets on chain. they want to see higher quality assets and be able to trade these. Um, so curious your personal view on like this evolution of the quality of assets tradable on chain and then kind of how that fits into this equity streams product and really kind of what that looks like. >> Yeah, so the thing I'm probably most excited about in the future of our industry is equities trading on the blockchain. And look, I'm a retail investor at heart. I love that space and I believe financial markets are important, but those retail users that drive it, that's should always keep top of mind. And so stuff like money market funds, deposits, those are huge. Those

are important, but the retail side is super exciting. And so I think we'll soon be in a world where whether it's Nike stock, Vanguard ETF, those are onchain, but those products have to be high quality in terms of not just the pricing data, but >> people got to know what they own. Like this is a share of stock. Do I have dividends coming with this? Do I have the right to vote? And we're not there yet, but I think this is in the next couple years going to happen. But I'm really really excited about the equities component. It's not talked about as much. And so some of these new products chain link is rolling out as steps in that direction. There's certainly more to come. And >> pricing gets the lion share of the the attention. But I think a key thing is like what do I actually own? Is this

actually SpaceX? Is this uh like a duplicate of it? Do I get a dividend if they issue dividends? Can I show up at the proxy meetings and vote? So, it's uh it's obviously stable coins is further along than equities, but I think I could read is going to make make big moves in the next couple years. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we're here in New York. It's the World Cup. It's going on. >> You guys are uh the exclusive Oracle partner for Predict Street, who actually, shout out to them. I just went to a World Cup game on Monday. >> Oh, nice. >> They they hooked it up with amazing seats.

>> Which one? Where you at? >> It was Sagal in Norway. >> Oh, the Norwegian hype is >> Oh my goodness. they were doing the the rowing in the crowd and just it was it was nuts and you know you see the predict street logo all over this field and um obviously you know important to for chainling to kind of be that data provider at this global scale. Um prediction markets are very interesting interesting part of this growing market of kind of onchain trading and you know speculative activity.

Chainlink is specifically built to create the best data possible for prediction markets. I think there's been a lot of um flack around resolving these markets. >> Um, you know, I'm just curious your view on prediction markets, your view on chainlink's involvement obviously here with the World Cup and predict street just kind of these did not exist five years ago. Now they're growing massively. Where do you stand on these as a as a public good for humans or as something that is uh over financialization? There's kind of a debate there. And then what is Chainlink's involvement into prediction markets? You know, how do you see that growing?

>> Yeah, it's been an amazing financial innovation that just kind of came out of suddenly out of nowhere. Yeah. >> Right. I started doing some trading and prediction markets in 2023 and no one knew what I was talking about and it was >> you know very interesting and it was there it was small and now it's taken over everything and I think the the magic there is it's it's simple. >> Yeah. >> Right. Like yes no 90% 10% right and not the normal odds and not complicated graphs and charts and obviously there's been product market fit. Um, I think maybe sometimes people are investing too much in too many things and it'd be cool to just, hey, watch an award show and you're not thinking like what are the odds, what's the the betting look like and things like that. But >> people clearly want it and I think it's

that simplicity of trading and it's easy and if you have a skill set in an area like whether it's politics or entertainment. Yeah. >> Before you couldn't really capitalize on that and now there's a market to do so and I think that's really cool. >> But data and data integrity is the center of everything. >> Yeah. And every financial institution like market has data issues at times, but for prediction markets being the scrutiny, they're so new, >> if they have issues about resolution, that could jeopardize that firm, that industry. And so having a firm like chain link >> powering that, making sure the data is there's integrity there, there's no bias there is, I think, really, really valuable. And you can guarantee nothing

in life, but if it was a prediction market of will prediction markets grow or shrink in the next five years, I think it's like 99% chance that it's going to grow. >> Yeah. And and you know, more on the institutional side, people often think of prediction markets as like insurance mechanisms, as like hedges. I'm curious if you if you can envision a world where some of these large allocators use prediction markets to hedge hedge uh positions, right? And you know, for example, like let's say you were, you know, you were bearish on crypto this, you know, this next three months or bullish, whatever, but and we had this kind of Clarity Act looming, right? You could you could think to like take a take a a stance of like no the Clarity

Act is not going to pass to like hedge any of your bullish positions or yes the Clarity Act will pass to hedge any of your bearish positions but then think about this like much more at scale for for FX markets for uh lending risks for federal funds right do you right now it's kind of consumed by the consumer do you see a institutional or a mass market appeal for prediction markets that are like hedging vehicles, insurance vehicles. Um, you know, is that something that that you think could happen?

>> Absolutely. I want to say 100% but I know in life never say 100% but it's super super close to that >> and hedging absolutely. So if you're an equities trader, right, like so much of your performance, your expectations about interest rates. So if you think you know on your trading interest rates are going to go down and thus your equities typically go up to hedge that rather than hedge every specific ticker maybe just hedge on the interest rates on a prediction market that yeah they're going to go up or down and I think it can be a much more simple way to invest and read markets rather than looking at a thousand tickers and hedging each one maybe just do the broader market overall. So, it's definitely going to move in that space. 100% seems like a

retail product for now, but from what I've heard and what I just know how institutions work, they will move into that space. >> Yeah. So, Andrew, just kind of getting more into your role here and and kind of your uh prerogatives and roadmap coming up. You know, obviously you're fresh here at Chan Link, so fresh back in the industry. Uh glad to have you. Um what is it that you think is the most important uh you know MMO for this year for for institutional development at chain link? Um whether it be more on the DeFi side, more on the trade side or on the connective tissue that you guys kind of play that role. What is the what is your core kind of mo here?

>> Yeah, I say like my priorities are three big buckets. One, chain link has an amazing history of connecting data to blockchains in secure ways. We work with the large majority of DeFi, a growing number of very large institutions. So, one is telling that story. So, I appreciate the chance to be here to help tell that chain link story because we are a key part of the ecosystem. >> Two is help more and more institutions on board to using chain link. >> Y >> every financial company out this window >> down south >> is thinking about the blockchain or what they can do. And after running a business in this space, there's nothing more priceless than your product

roadmap. Yeah. So you may have that product roadmap planned for the next year or two. If suddenly you're like, hey, we need to have this DeFi lending product. >> You got to fit that in and what are you balancing out and it may take two years to build that, but when it's ready, it's old. Or plug into a firm like chain link who's done this, has the expertise. So helping firms on their you know their blockchain journey is number two and three you know chain link has a wonderful community and we have a link token and just telling that story with our community about the token about the work we're doing um to our community itself who is so important to us. So tell the story to New York and

institutions help them on board to chain link and then just tell that story amongst our community as well. It it's it's almost like an educational journey, right? >> Absolutely. And it works out because when I was in college, I was like, maybe I'll go to law school, maybe I'll be a high school teacher. Ended up in finance instead. So, there's nothing I love more than like the education piece. And especially coming through a retail lens, right? That was a huge focus of what I always did. It's like gota we want people to invest is such a huge unlock to building wealth and knowledge and education is the key to get people in.

And it's no different institution. So a lot of people they've they hear about these things and it's about just just talking to them having a lunch of coffee and talking about the lay of the land what it means. And I've been doing that for almost 10 years. And nine years ago people thought I was crazy talking about blockchain >> here and there people maybe maybe my kids think I'm crazy when I talk about it but most of my you know peers and institutions they they get it now and it's more about how do we do this and and win. >> Yeah. I mean a lot of the a lot of those relationships as far as the institutional side goes they become like this like trusted advisor before sales right it's becomes like this education you know meetings just to kind of learn about how they think about these things

questions and it's this it's quite a slow process but it's be it's that trust that really matters I mean a lot of these firms a lot of these firms have been built off of hundreds and hundreds of years trillions of dollars of assets under management uh and to them that that's like that's the number one >> absolutely So there's kind of this consolidation in the industry of like the the the companies that have benefited from Lindy effect working in their favor by focusing on security. It's often not sexy. It's actually unsexy. Um and so you know through that process you're able to kind of like mold these relationships into integrations, partnerships, etc. But it often just starts with that educational journey and that understanding of of the benefits and all of this.

>> That's exactly right. And I spent most of my career actually as a lawyer, a financial services lawyer. And I know being at the large banks as a lawyer that the risk teams, compliance teams, legal teams, like that's the heartbeat. And you you don't just launch products suddenly. It's a long process and governance. So I take all that stuff to heart and that's the same with chain link. And we're not just here to like launch a product and run. It's about doing this wisely, thoughtfully. Not just for today, but for the next 5, 10, 25 years. Were you on the uh defense side or the prosecuting side?

>> Always on defense. >> Nice. >> Yeah. So I represented financial institutions when the SEC came calling, Fender came calling and did a lot of cool like product development and then in >> 2017 when I got the crypto bug I you know put my hand up and said I want to work in this space too and that became a bit of a night hustle and now it's my real job. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. So, so you defended institutional allocators and firms against just SEC oversight and uh regulatory action. >> That that's what I did for a long time. So, it's still in my DNA. It's never something I do daytoday anymore, but >> that's what I did for over a decade. And >> yeah, >> it's it's important work because in financial services, whether you're launching a product, new marketing ad,

regulations is a common thread through it all. I mean, right now we're in a very very favorable regulatory environment. I mean, one of the one of the most favorable I was just showing a clip earlier on on the show and there was a it was Rick Edelman. He was talking about how important getting this next set of Congress members to be pro- crypto is. >> Absolutely. >> We got two more two and a half more years of Trump and obviously he's very pro crypto whether people like that or not uh and agree with his stance or not. And then we have this, you know, obviously this huge Clarity Act and then we have the Congress being reelected uh this winter. And so I mean you've seen the full turnaround from the SEC and CFDC on crypto digital assets.

>> Like what is your stance right now on clarity and on uh this winter's elections for the Congress? How important is it to this industry? um in just from your experience in law like what people don't want to see is a lot of the progress be walked back in the future you know is that is that a possibility like what needs to get done I'm not asking for a legal school lecture here but just kind of give us your perspective here >> yeah tons of thoughts here so I've not just from the legal lens but when I was the US CEO at it Toro I led that business both during the prior administration the SEC and the current one and it's night and day in terms of like what you can do and if you're living in fear and you're making investments or restricting

>> and similar to some prior comments if you're running in a business especially regulated business you're not just thinking about today you're thinking about like two three four years out and that's why that regulatory certainty is priceless like today what governs the retail trading business in the crypto space >> laws from 1933 and 1934 and a Supreme Court case from 1946 about orange trees So if you're running a platform selling Dogecoin, that's what's governing you and that's really hard. If you're launching a staking product, how do you fit that into that world? So there's the current administration, great speeches, great guidance, new rules. We can't have every two years, every four years is

flip-flop. >> Yeah. >> Because people want to invest in this space. And so Clarity Act, it I'm so hopeful it happens. And I think it'll be >> probably the single most biggest unlock for investment in this space I could ever dream of. Yeah. >> And not just for chain link sake or ecosystem but for people like there's millions of people out here who can benefit from small micro investing or whatever their the product is who don't have access that to that today and something like clarity act can help unlock that.

>> Yeah. And then from the from the kind of you know more specifically on your role side do do you think clarity will help a lot of the institutional you know partnership side of things will it kind of open that door as well or is it more kind of consumer retail friendly would you say? Oh, huge on institutional side pro probably more than anything else. >> Absolutely. because again I'm speak as one of them the legal compliance risk teams you are so that's your sole job to focus on let's >> lead a business in a thoughtful way that's compliant and if you don't even know basic questions of who's the regulator >> are you going to say yeah let's put a $500 million into the space it's more

like hey let's >> wait and see and take small steps so having that clarity certainty and not just for today but for two years, 5 years, 10 years from now going to be a massive lock on the institutional level. >> Ladies and gentlemen, that is Andrew McCormack, the new head of institutional development at Chainlink, live from the tokenization tower. First podcast from the Chainlink side. >> Andy and Andrew, let's go. >> There it is. The Andy and Andrew show is live, guys. We'll be right back with markets charts updates micro strategy. Uh, a lot more to cover before we end the show today. So, don't go anywhere. I'll be right back. Uh, thanks for being part of the show. Hope you guys enjoyed the two segments in the tower today. We'll be right back with more.

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hell you did to to the markets while I was on those calls, but damn, I did not expect such a nice bounce actually from Hyperlid. Uh I heard I saw I saw the market was I saw we got the sweep. I think if you guys were here in the beginning, we were talking about the sweep there on those on that 59 50 59 point. I mean, we swept the lows entirely. So this is our this is our only shot, guys. I mean I mean we slept the lows entirely.

Um just barely. So if we can't go from here, we're in trouble. But I mean I think the topic here guys is really what the hell is going on here. So Micro Strategy is down 7.6% today. down at 95.93. Um, and Stretch is cooked. So, we got new lows on Stretch. So, if you guys MSTR is about to be below STRC soon, lol. Yeah, I feel you, man. Um, it was Shane's fault. Yeah. No, it wasn't.

Um, so, okay. So, I came on the show last week with Rob and we were like, "Look, I think Stretch is uh kind of being overexacerbated, right? I don't think it's that bad." And we got a little bit of a bounce here back up. Guys, I would go out on a limb here and say I think this is I think this is close to it unstretched. If this isn't it, if $80 isn't it, then then Sailor's really in trouble. Um, I think this is close to it on Stretch.

I think that we are I mean, we are seeing the worst charts of Stretch on Twitter. The problem is, man, like we haven't even dumped yet. Like if this is the move that we're about to make, then we have not even dumped yet and STRC might be in more trouble. >> Embarrassing. >> So, [laughter] [gasps] um, yeah. So, look guys, I mean, I'm pretty satisfied with this one. I mean, I'm not trying to be looking at the one hour chart, guys. I mean, that's just not what we're doing here. But I I'm glad to

see I think we get I think we get bounces here. I think we get bounces. Rocky says roll up. Good morning, Rocky. Good to see you as usual. So, look, am I a buyer on Micro Strategy? Definitely not. Um, do I think that it's all done and that they're over and that it's going to zero? Definitely not. It's down 50% in a month. strategy is down 50% in a month. So, I mean, if we're being specific, it's more like 40% in a month, but let's call it five weeks. We're down 51%.

Guys, usually in the market when fear and FUD is at the max, you're it might not be the exact bottom. It might not be like the end of it all, but it is going to at least signal that we're a little bit like caught kind of on one side of the trade. So, look, I'm going to stand by what I think and I think that this is about it. I think this level obviously got hit. We ran that level. I don't even know if you can do TA on this. I'm not even a TA guy really, but I think this is it on stretch. I think we're probably good

here. I think Micro Strategy is probably okay. Um the real question is just like we've obviously broken that level here and that just signals that this thing's going to keep going down and the next level is 75. And really the next levels are like 45 50. So that's the concern for stretch and micro strategy. But like I mean look, hype got its run of of under 60. Hype got its 59 touch. That was probably the most logical bounce spot. We went down

to 52 last time. This thing probably gets back up a little bit. Probably doesn't get back into the 70s. And I think we bounce here. I think we're gonna bounce. I think Micro Strategy's fears are going to be I think we're like close to peak like until the later part of the year when we get probably the final pullback. I think it I think we're probably at peak peak fear right now on Stretch and Micro Strategy and also just like peak attention. The head and shoulders on Bitcoin chart is scary as hell. politics is to 33K when we draw it out. Pull up the chart. Tell me you don't see it. If STRC doesn't recover, I'm cooked. I'm 5x

long on it. Honestly, dude, I think you're fine. I think you're fine. I think you're good. I think you're good, man. I think it recovers. I think it recovers. I think in my opinion like the bull case here, if there is one, is like this thing coming back up and like just chilling in the 90s and then people being chill like chilling out and not being like so fear-mongering and that gives us like a like like so like like the reason why I think it's still like somewhat asymmetric to like not give up right now. Look, I think you know maybe longer term we're fourear cycle etc. But like I think the I think stretch going back up

to like 90 would subside a lot of the fears. And so like if the bull cases just stretch getting back up to 10% within peg when it's supposed to be or PEG when it's supposed to be at a dollar or 100 then I don't know. I I I think it's a pretty fair fair take. Like you're going to see this thing back at a dollar and that's where you want to be. But I mean the problem right now guys is that Sailor's fully in his main character arc and that's what we put in the copy of the tweet and that's just kind of like that never ends well. It never ends well in crypto. So, I also

saw a post I think from Pentoshi. Um, let me find Pentohi's post. I think this is I think this is actually somewhat accurate. I think this is fair. Kind of feels like the market keeps telling Sailor you can't keep all three STRC, MSTR, and BTC. I read a great post once said a threebody problem, and it is. feels that the right move is to euthanize STRC and go back to buying Bitcoin the old way. All three holders have different incentives and wants he can't do all three, right? MSTR, they want to get more um more Bitcoin per share. Bitcoin holders want price to go up. Stretch holders want to get their guaranteed

yield and not get inflated and not lose value. Micro Strategy holders don't want to get diluted to fund Stretch. Micro Strategy holders don't they they're down to get diluted to buy Bitcoin though. They don't want to get diluted to buy Stretch. And so, yeah, if clarity comes through, we will not hit 33K. I don't think we're going to hit 33K either way. I think that's like the the absolute maximum epitome low. I'm shorting STRC, MSTR. Don't fight the trend.

Who said that? Edward is 5x long and no CSM is shorting stretch and MSTR. You can make money in either direction. Long-term, it is a DCA buy. Yeah, I I don't know, man. I'm not shorting. Like, I could see the Micro Strategy short play. Like, if you think Bitcoin is going to pull back down lower, then yeah, I could see it. But but yeah, I mean stretch. I don't know, man. I think we're I think we're good.

I think this thing's going to have a bounce. I just feel like the longer that it stays under the peg, the more sketchy it all is. Like the longer it stays down here. That's why I think like the bullcase is just getting it back to 80 or sorry to 90 which I know makes no sense and it's still disjointed but I mean Sailor's in a situation man. Sailor's in a situation and then like he he tweets this today or at 3:00 a.m.

Dude, people are not happy in the comments. >> Embarrassing. >> Kaleio is max bearish right now. This is the So, Edward, I think you were just said that you're shorting. This is the This is the bare thesis right here. We get like this nasty nasty capitulation on Micro Strategy. I mean, dude, these guys are just hammering at him. And you know what's funny is like none of this helps, right? Like the more But this is what I mean, guys. Like it's I don't know, man. It's tough to say right now, but I think we're fine. I

think Stretch is fine. Dude, this guy's post was hilarious. [ __ ] you don't want to see as a holder. This is giving like damn you bad people that sent out COVID into the world. Turn everyone into a day trader. Now we have everyone shorting along with billions of bots doing the same. [laughter] This guys learn aai.gg. What's up, man?

Good to see you for the first time. Give us a subscribe, guys. If you're watching right now, give us a sub on YouTube. Give us a thumbs up. We appreciate y'all. Throw us a subscribe. Turn the notifications on. We're live every day. We appreciate that. We appreciate that. Yeah, guys. I mean, we're in just we're just in must must bounce territory across the board. So, I mean, yeah, this is just stretch micro strategy. I'm not touching any of it. I'm not touching this. I'm not touching this.

Do I think that this is like a good buy? I don't know, man. I don't know. Here's how to fix it. Bit miner needs to buy Stretch and use the 11.5 yield to pay the 9.5 on Bit Miner's preferred offering. Oh my gosh. Tom Lee is staying as far away from Sailor as he possibly can. I think as he possibly can. I do think if Stretch gets into the 70s though, oh boy. Like anywhere in the 70s, I think I think Sailor's gonna have his hands full.

I think Sailor's gonna have his hands full. Anywhere in the 70s. anywhere in the 70s. I think we were talking about this earlier on the show, guys. Uh, Rockaway leadership got a caught attempted to sell itself using inflated numbers. No no no no no. >> Soulmates found out >> the public company and then and then tried to and then they raised [snorts] 50 million from their own LPS to overthrow Soulmates's board.

Oh my gosh, this the CEO Victor guy is in trouble. Oh my goodness. Oh, here we go. I think this is the last shot before you just pack it up into the fall 57 to 60. The 50-day either holds or like it has all 2026 or you touch grass and buy sub50. Yikes.

Yikes. It really is a make or break, guys. Burrs on make or break levels. >> Lol. Will be within 70s within the hour. This guy Edward is short deep on stretch right now. Edward is super short right now. Your bags are showing, brother. So are mine, though. So we're not together. This guy's Edward's saying it's going to be in 70s in the hour. I'm done. I am done, dude. It's not going to 70s in the hour. It would be crazy if tomorrow was in the 70s, though.

The upcoming MU earnings are sending jitters through the market. MU I mean, >> wow. I mean I mean I mean anyone thinking anyone holding this thing is like euphoric right now. If you got in anywhere on the first parabola or the second one you're just like you're just like wow. You're also like sitting on massive unrealized gains and you're like like the the 3% move today is like a massive pullback. It's like a six figure pullback for you or a big five figure

pullback. Fong Lee monthly dividend from stretch is 10,743 per month. Effective yield is 12.89% based on $89 price. Lol. I'm 5x long STRC. Other guy is short. Oh, Edward. Edward's long. And who's short? NOCSM is short. We got a battle in the in the rollup in the roll-up army. We got to battle. Got to battle for stretch. Who's going to win? Tomorrow's going to be the tell, guys. I mean, this looks all too likely here, to be honest.

So 54 for Bitcoin. Honestly, seems like a bit of a magnet. Upcoming MEU earnings, huh? Oh man, arrow arrow. That last arrow candle got smoked. I think I bought around here or like it was like right here or something. So, I'm bleeding on that one a little bit. 10% or so.

Yeah. I mean, when we were going over the charts yesterday, we were just talking about these lower highs, you know? across the board on all of our favorite pairs. Hype's the exception, but it hasn't even got a lower high. It's just been just been five straight days of four straight days of just boom. Guys, I think Stretch is going to be all right, but this thing might be trading in the 70s.

I mean, it held the 80s, but for what, you know, for why? Floren arrows 31 buy aggressively in the 30s. Yeah, I hear you man. I hear you on that. I I might have got a little bit trigger happy on that. So, bro, [music] one bitcoin [music] tucked in my jeans.

I preach decentralization like a hymn through broken screens. rent the fridge like [music] >> bro crypto Twitter bare market is just like it's undefeated [music] but keep [music] one kidney left one kidney left [music] I kept the coin I pay the debt.

One kidney left. One kidney [music] left, >> bro. We are just down. We are just down bad right now. [gasps] Oh my gosh. [music] That is so good. I'm ready for more Zama and Arrow. What is Zama doing? Zama had a nice chart there for a bit.

Yeah, another lower high. But strong base here. Pretty decent token launch honestly. Just dump off launch and then go. They had that auction thing. Obviously, they're a friend of the show. Yeah. What's Uni doing? Yeah.

Almost a full retrace from that standard chartered launch. Not entirely. Yeah, guys. I mean, stretch and micro strategy is all of the conversation. unis swap almost full retrace from that um standard charter post zama here that's what I was just looking at guys had that lower high I was just drawing out I didn't realize I wasn't sharing weekends in crypto right now retail getting crushed whales staying put I mean it's going to be a choppy summer probably I do feel like this is the hold the line moment for hype um I don't know I just Bitcoin just does not look very um

Bitcoin doesn't look very constructive. Let's just say maybe the biggest bull in the timeline flipping bearish and sharing a lot of data back his wasn't a countering indicator. So yeah, I think Kay was talking about himself. He's always super bullish. Oh my gosh, we're getting the Peter freaking Peter Schiff dunk. This is so funny. We're getting the Peter Schiff dunk now, guys.

Standard Charter said last night that a will hit 3500. What? Did they really generational wealth? I see I agree though like with the tokenized asset thesis and we we we've been saying this that basically um that these DeFi protocols are going to get rerated based on the tokenized asset growth for aerodrome and unis swap. It's the spot trading for hyperlquid and lighter. It's the pers for a morpho. It's the lending markets.

We've been saying this 3500 though. Wow. I mean I mean I mean this isn't even What is you? Does anybody know what U is? I keep saying a U. I mean I mean I mean these guys are coming in and saying we're going to get a move like this on a I mean I mean I mean the these guys standard charter saying that we're going to get this.

Okay. Well, I'm glad we still have some bulls. 100% you've been saying it. Yeah, man. It's just a matter of when that's going to happen. Like is is there is there the right like is it just a DCA play? Are we going to be wrong on that thesis? Like or are we going to be right in like Hyperlquid, Lighter, Variational, a Morpho, Aerodrome, Uniswap, whoever else on the Salana side is going to be uh um is going to be the reciprocal beneficiary of this tokenization wave.

Standard charter meant 3500 ETH, not of it. Yeah. I mean, that would probably be more logical. Interesting though. I agree with this. I don't know if it's 95 or 85 or 35 or whatever, but I agree with Mike in that it's just a bit over. I don't know. It's just a bit over extended in the fear right now, I think.

But could be wrong, of course. So, it's hard to tell. It's hard to tell. But here's where we're at, guys, as we close out. Bitcoin 595 stretch 80.89 8 9 and dropping MSTR 94 95 hype 60.18 per 7.88 88 arrow down under 50 cents. Zcash just holding 400.

>> That's where we're at. The problems with when clarity pass everything will pump and rip faces off. I think it will be more of a um I think clarity will be more of like a um like a it'll be like one of those things that takes a while for the market to like actually price it in and for it to react. Like same thing with Genius, you know, like this year and next year we'll probably see banks issue like billions and billions of dollars of stable coins, right? But like it wasn't like Genius Act passed and then we had, you know, another $300 billion dollars of stable

coins being minted. I think the same thing with Clarity. It's like it's going to pass. It'll be a nice like bull market like or sorry like bare market catalyst to restart the bull, but I I don't know if it's going to like cause any like immediate price action changes. The problem with these pumps and dumps are due to pers not spelling spot or buying. That is for another day. Yeah, pers do change the market structure. I do agree with that. I do agree with that. All right, guys. Thanks for rocking with us. You know where to find us. You know where we'll be every day. Through the bear, through the bull, live from the Empire State Building, in the tokenization tower, in

the nest, the capital of finance, the financial capital of the world. W's in the chat, guys. Great show. If you guys are watching on YouTube, if it's your first time, click the like, click the sub. We're here every single day going through the markets, guiding you through. We have a couple more months maybe of the bear. We're not going anywhere. It We'll be all good. We We're going to survive and then we're going to prepare for the next cycle and we're going to crush it. We're going to crush it hard. It's going to be a It's going to be one of the biggest cycles we've ever had in this industry. And we just got to see that through and we will. W's in the chat. Drop a like. Drop a sub, guys. Thanks for being a part of the show. All you on YouTube and X watching.

Appreciate you guys. We will see you guys tomorrow, 12:30 p.m. Eastern. >> [music] >> live from the financial capital world. Stay strong. Hold on tight, guys. Don't go anywhere. >> We're we're we're going to be just fine. Much love. [music] >> [music]