🚨LIVE: Saylor Is SAFE?! HIP-4 Permissionless Launch! PUMP Repricing or P&D? CoinFello & Plume

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[music] [music] [music] Heat. Heat. [music] >> [music] [music] >> Thank you, son. Lord, [music]

we'll see you around the timeline. Feels good to be back. [music] >> I think The Rollup is one of the most premier media [singing] brands in crypto and Andy and Robbie [music] are great experts at everything they talk about and it's my favorite podcast. >> Adding it to my [music] library every >> potentially multi-chain deployments. >> We are at Dev Connect [music] day one here. I hope you guys [music] [music] [music]

[music] >> [music] [music] >> Heat. Heat. [music] >> [music] [music] >> JP Morgan, Black Rockck, DTCC, Fidelity, the entire thing was just institutions.

It's just it's next level. This industry is going to the next level. And guys, I I don't know what else to say. I'm bullish. He said it. HE FINALLY SAID IT. So bullish. Andy's bullish. I'm bullish. We're bullish. [music] Heat.

[music] [music] Heat. Heat. [music] Heat.

[music] >> [music] >> for rollup [music] is headed to the top. If we're not already at the top, we're going to the top. Done. >> Roll up is my favorite. >> People from all walks of life, all over the world, all over this industry [music] come together for the rollup.

[music] [music] [music] >> [music] >> Zoom out. The institutions aren't coming. They're simply here. It's the golden age of crypto, guys. Get right.

Let's go. [music] Zoom out. The institutions aren't coming. They're simply [music] here. It's the golden age of crypto, guys. Get right. Let's go. [music] >> Welcome to the nest. See you on the show. >> Yes, sir. >> Yes. Yes. Happy Monday. >> How was your weekend, Rob? >> Andy, welcome back, brother. It's good to have you back. How was your weekend, >> dude? Boating, oysters, steamers, seafood swordfish seals surfing paddle boarding, swimming in ponds.

Return, return to the source. Get me >> Sounds like a return. >> Get me the hell out of New York. Get me the hell. >> I mean, you couldn't have had better timing with the uh Canadian wildfires. >> Yeah, it was disgusting in New York. So, it was beautiful down there. Spent five days there. My family has they their extended family have houses and boats there and all these things and so it was sweet and my positions were getting smoked. End of the week last week I can't lie. I was checking them quite a bit. Didn't really it kind of it's kind of nice to be in somewhere where you're outside um when you're getting smoked on your positions. It's uh

>> it helps you Yeah. zoom out a little bit, you know, realize there's other things in the world and like shrug it off a little bit on the trading view chart on the stream thinking about like what to do, you know what I mean? >> I mean, you're out there playing squash, right? And that helps stay, you know, helps to optimize for patience, which in this it feels like, man, like the market's just testing our patient. I don't know if you feel this way, but the way I feel right now is just like >> like market is testing our patience as we go through this transitionary phase. all I see out there and I think we're just honing in on like the consensus view and like honing in on like these are the right levels to accumulate.

We're going to be looking in hindsight, you know, months, years down the road and just thankful and grateful for buying at these prices, but the market is, >> you know, I think end of the year, I mean, I'm I'm thinking, you know, I'm thinking Christmas, we're going to be like, we're back. You know what I mean? So, >> weeks to months. And so I think the market is just testing our resolve, testing our patience in order to like hang on, right? Maybe we see another leg lower, but yeah, I do think, you know, now's the time. And uh if you can just stay patient a little while longer, you're going to end up being rewarded for it. >> How was your weekend? Did you see that Odyssey movie? Apparently, it's sick.

>> No, man. I haven't seen it yet. I'm excited to see it. And uh I want to see it. All I see is like the 70 mm like screen size is like the way to see it. If you see it on like a regular movie theater, it's like too horizontal. They cut off like 25% of the top and 25% of the bottom of the screen. And so the way that Christopher Nolan like directed it is meant to be seen on a certain movie theater. So I haven't found one that is nearby quite yet. But I'm uh I'm excited because it combines a few of my few of my favorite things with all the uh the Greek uh philosophers and mythology that are out there. I'm very very excited for it. Also uh Christopher Nolan, probably the best director of all time. uh favorite movie of all time, Inception,

is Christopher Nolan. The guy just gets you thinking, man. And he's got a very, very funky way of looking at the world. So yeah I'm >> Well, I haven't seen it either. I almost went to see it, but I think we ended up just like playing mini pool in the living room and having some beers. Um, Argentina Lost yesterday, Spain one. I'm heading to Argentina in a week, >> skiing. It's going to be unreal. I have just the most insane itinerary for just vibes maximizing. >> Tell us a little bit about it.

>> Stakes, wine. >> Yeah. >> Three different mountain towns, just I mean snowmmoiling. It's just going to be >> it's going to be it's going to be like hot as hell in New York and Florida and I'm going to be down there and like just ripping ripping turns. So, >> let's get into the show. As always guys, proud by our friends at Plume onchain Asset Management and Infrastructure with their Nest Vault product. Visit plume.org or Nest Credit to learn more. Let's get into today's topics and what we got going on. We got Welcome to the show. Great to have you at uh happy July 20th, Monday. Happy Monday everyone. Uh Mark, some weather live from New York.

Uh Coinfolio's founder is going to join the show. Talk to us a little bit about AI on chain briefly. And then we've got Plume's general counsel who just spent uh last week on >> Capital Hill. Yeah, >> talking about clarity, talking about other things that are happening. So, we're gonna get a big update there. >> Solomon in front of the show and uh I I mean just one of the most thoughtful people when it comes to the space. I I can't say enough good things. Every time, you know, we had a period of time where clarity was just repeatedly pounded into the zeitgeist and it was like, "All right, we got to stop talking about clarity." Every time that Salman comes in on the show, he has something new to say about it and it just never gets boring. So, yeah, I'm I'm excited.

Salman, super thoughtful, super reasonable guy the way that he uh he approaches the space. >> As always guys, our topics are powered by our friends at treasure. Visit code visit treasure.io with code rollup 10 to save 10% off on a hardware wallet. Guys, let's keep it rolling. Let's keep it rolling into the weather. We've got Florida up here for you. It is 90 degrees down there for our boy Rob. Um looks quite hot. >> Feels like 101. >> Feels like 101. >> We're steamy out here. Markets hot >> as always. Weather powered by our friends at Relay. Visit relay.link to start swapping onchain and more. Let's get into the markets and into what you guys want to hear about news markets charts. We got a couple early guests and then we'll get into screen share news

markets charts for you. Let me tell you about our tokenized equities partner dinari. Uh powering the onchain economy for tokenized US equities and bringing real world stocks onchain. Visit dinari.com to explore onchain access to public markets. Um, green. We finally broke 65 >> on a 4hour close on Bitcoin. Our summer bounce thesis is working. I kind of thought our coins would be pumping harder with Bitcoin at 65, but maybe we just get a little bit of a lag. So, Near is the big winner out of this list.

Quantum mainet upgrade that went live today. just a few hours ago. >> Man, Zcash looks insane rough. >> We're gonna talk more about that. Zcash and I need you to get long as hell >> and uh yeah, Bitcoin above 65. the the thing now, you know, and it's so funny to like see how the evolutions and the girrations of the sentiment and the consensus take effect because, you know, we had calls for 35 and 40K, Bitcoin getting into the 40s. Then everyone said, you know, okay, we have a bounce, right? But this isn't the bottom. We're going to have one more leg down and then everyone's going to buy the bottom in October when it's exactly one year from

the top. Insane. >> Now I've seen the evolution get to the point where people are flipping bias. This is the bottom because everyone is going to frontr run the last leg down. No one's going to wait for October. Everyone wants to get in now. And so this in fact is the bottom. >> I am not I'm not buying it. >> I would love that. >> So that would be incredible. You know, I think everyone who's watched the show, people Andy, it's so funny. People call us bearish and then they call us too bullish and then they call us too bearish. I mean, how are you supposed to navigate the chop? I feel like we've been we've taken a pretty like methodical approach here. You know, we've explained how we're in this transitionary phase from a bear to a

bull. We're not in the business of picking pico bottoms and pico tops. But if you continue to watch the show, you will realize that you will be grateful for these prices come months, years down the line. Yeah. So, we're building positions here. This might be the bottom or we might have another leg down, but now it's the time to be building positions for the long haul. >> Yeah. Yep. Salana looks good. Um, chain link looks good. Near looks good. Ethereum looks pretty good. Bitcoin holding 65 today would be all we can really ask for. So, as always guys, our markets are powered by our friends at Zama. Check out their Morpho vault.

Deposit USDC confidentially on Morpho using Zama's privacy preserving technology. as always powering that. Edward AMC Lincoln has Odyssey at 70 millimeters. IMAX. Cool. Damn it. Hate being late. What have I missed? What are we talking about? Um well, so far not a whole lot. Just getting caught up. Um markets look good. Good to see you, new type. Hope you had a good weekend. Uh NASDAQ's back up as well, Rob. Uh oil ripped up to $90. Um and so let me see what it's at right now. It is.

>> Yeah, the war. I mean, think about think about what is h happening. >> Brent crude went up 290. >> Think about what is unfolding before our eyes. I mean, war is at all-time highs >> kind of. I mean, oil isn't quite above like 100, but but you know, the war is like ongoing. Um, gas in the US is like above four bucks y >> on average. Yet, Bitcoin's above 65. It it feels like a decoupling has taken place where we have realized like okay the ceasefire war ceasefire war this ping ponging back and forth is no longer the thing that is um tethered to the market.

>> Y >> the market is now like sort of exploring things on its own again. We're gonna continue to see, you know, a new AI frontier models, the AI thesis get texted. You know, we're gonna continue to see um uh you know, the the oil markets and the war continue to rage on. But, uh I mean, this is very very interesting developments happening in the markets as we start to decorrelate from some of those larger macro events. >> Yeah, definitely agreed. Um and it's good to see. It's a nice uh decoupling that we needed to see. And so um let's actually get into I think the first uh tweet today is kind of on that. Um before we do, let me tell you about Near, your home for building and using apps on chain. One account, no borders,

your financial life all on chain. Visit near.com to learn more about using Near. And this guy is one of the guys that we follow. Him and this guy Killer XBT. um pretty much publicly shorted the top and a lot of the bounces and have quickly reversed their bias to swing long positions for the next cycle. So, we're talking entry at about 62 64 with a stop-loss or liquidation at like 30K and 25K and a takerit at like 160. And so I think that is kind of what this

guy's doing, but he's just doing a spot. So he's saying, "Today entered at 64,000 for the absolute long term. For the first time since nine months, I'm buying Bitcoin for the long term. The be it's the beginning of a structured accumulation strategy, and I will execute it with the same discipline that allowed me to sell the top." And so I don't know how helpful this is to necessarily to our audience, but um it is good to see people that have been right start to flip bullish. Um, and I think that's kind of like the key takeaway here. >> I I I agree. And I also think that there is sort of a execution playbook that we can draw out here. If you continue to scroll down, um, he describes how he's got this window. Um, you know, uh, he

talks, you know, about his wins. He celebrates his wins and he talked about how his execution strategy, it didn't matter if it was, you know, 116, 120, 124. every single time that Bitcoin traded in that zone, he sold a little bit. He said he sold 10% of his spot position and added shorts. Now, what he's saying is that 5% every time that Bitcoin trades within the 54 to $64,000 range. And so, this is like a rather, you know, fast-paced execution strategy. Obviously, you can't buy 5% of your allocated capital forever. you only get 20 times that you can do that, >> which is 20 days. And so obviously what he's saying is that you know you're he's

going to start to you know build this accumulation strategy over the next 20 days he's going to deploy 5% of his capital and the expectation would be that um you know you would fill and then shortly thereafter would the market would turn in your favor. >> Yep. >> Um if it falls to 58 I buy. If it drops to 56 I buy. If it wicks into 54 become more aggressive. Obviously the uh the imperative is to uh you know have more capital have you know enough capital to continue to buy as it goes down but obvious you know this is very aligned with the approach that we've been taking in the market uh over the last weeks.

>> Yep. >> Uh which is to build positions. That is the uh that is the the method that is the approach as of right now. Um, and then he just goes on to talk about the uh the moving the 200 day moving average. Yep. Um, and how close we are to it. Obviously, this is a piece of technical analysis as we zoom out and we get just I I think the best way to approach and I've been, you know, sort of against technical analysis on this show. >> Yeah. If we scroll down, we can see the chart. >> Yeah. And and so the way in which I would approach like TA in general is going to be just keep it simple. Like horizontal lines I think are uh reasonable. Moving averages I think are reasonable just to get a sense of you know historical analysis but obviously I

think these are these are uh pastlooking indicators not so much in you know forward indicating but if you just look at you know this is al over the long haul uh bitcoin doesn't spend much time under its 200 day moving average historical uh you know examples don't indicate future results but it is something to take into account from an emp empirical point of Yeah, I agree. Um I typically only really look at the um moving averages like the four of them as the main is the main charting tool. So I agree with this take. Um I'm glad that this fella is doing well and has found himself in a good spot and let's move on. Um so I put out the sweep and if you guys saw pump that fun uh ripped. Um so

what is pump at right now? It's probably up some more. Um, so this call out the buybacks relative to that as well, right? >> Yeah. So this shows the protocol revenue on a two-year basis for the most profitable companies in the crypto. >> And it's insane that Hype is top three and Pump's top four. And Pump is trading at a 50x discount. So 50x the valuation depends on how you you know look at hypes FTV or whatever but anywhere from like a 20 to a 50x discount and the reason is if you scroll down you'll see Anom's uh

response here and then I responded and here you go. So pump trading at the same two-year revenue as Hyperl trading at 50x lower valuation because they refuse to acknowledge their core user base is genuinely hilarious. Also I got absolutely ratioed on this. I mean how many likes does Anom tweet have? Yeah, 645. And then I'm like, yeah, I read your full post on buybacks and trust and pretty much entirely agree. The only caveat being that TAM of per versus memes is being perceived as far larger slash more resilient. Pump continues to be a mystery for investors solely looking at revenues. And Thread Guy's like, well, what happens if they do take care of their core user base? And then Anom has this nice meme of um well you know the if everything if ETH was over

5,000 this is what the world would look like. And so I I think that if we're just going to go on the lens of we're buying things with revenue and buybacks in tokconomics in good tokconomics. I think pump is great here. The issue is they just have this massive unlock overhang. They just started their unlocks and in the coming weeks to months it's just like I mean we're talking hundreds of millions yeah tens to hundreds of millions for investors that are up a thousandx I mean Mike Dudis got into the preede of Pump Rob $5 million Val I think or 1.5

million somewhere in that range 1.5 to5 million val we'll probably put up a 100K 200k it's at 1.6 6 bill. No, it's that two bill. We're talking like a 1500x on like 100k. What's the math there? What is that? What is that? 100k to 15 million. I think that's 15 million. 100k to 15 million. 1500x. >> Yeah, >> sounds about right. >> Dudas is up a 1500xish on pump. >> Bro, >> are you saying are you saying he's uh he's gonna be looking for some liquidity?

I asked his partner like publicly on X. I was like, "Are you guys selling?" He's like, "No, man. Unlocks are bullish." >> The So, let's let's talk about why unlocks unlocks can be bullish. >> Scroll up, Leo. >> Let's talk about why when and why unlocks are bullish. >> Pump is trash. Meme coins are an embarrassment to crypto. ETH hype lit. Salon is trash, too. >> All right. You gotta clarify that comes from the chat here that you're you're reading off otherwise because people have said that uh you know those are our opinions but no we just read the chat out loud sometimes. So why why are unlocks bullish and when when are they bullish? I I I um Okay, you have this this like this

unlock complex. You have this like large looming rain cloud that is about to pour down a ton of supply and dilute the market. And this could, you know, lead to dumping and whatnot that creates like this negative flywheel effect via this this unlocks narrative that is coming, right? And then you kind of have this like bullish sentiment effect that is flywheeling upwards as a result of like the the bullishness via the revenue. >> You know, one of those is going to out offset the other. They're re what is stickier, right? The revenue or the unlocks? Which narrative is stickier?

The the reason that I think unlocks could be bullish is because once you once you get through unlocks and there's no more unlocks, this raincloud, this looming negative sentiment is is gone. And if you can get through that phase and maintain revenue through that and buybacks and and positive sentiment through that phase, well then yeah, unlocks are bullish because you've gotten through that potentially negative phase without really realizing too many of the negative effects on the market. I that's when unlocks are bullish. It's not necessarily that the unlock itself is bullish. I mean, you're bringing more to the supply. It's that it's the effect if you get through that unlocked cycle

without realizing too many of the detrimental effects then you've successfully overcame this potentially destructive force and that is a very bullish thing. Um but it it remains to be seen. I mean, I think, you know, that's why you have people going on and talking about this now because it's important to sort of meet uh this potentially negative force with an equally positive an equally positive force in order to offset and overcome uh the unlocks. >> Yeah, I mean, they're we'll see >> pretty significant. And uh Fhiao from Block Works posted this tweet. I'm going to pull it up here in case you're wondering why a bunch of people are bull posting pump out of nowhere. Well,

here's what we got, which is we've got So, here we are right now, right? And I I think this is accurate. It's hard to know. Uh I' I've heard mixed reviews about this tokconomous site, [snorts] uh but I'm pretty sure it's accurate. And so you see right here the the unlocks just started right here. But this massive amount hasn't started and doesn't start. >> So you're you're saying just to just to make sure here you're saying that that green block underneath the black striped block that green block has started >> started and that's investors and team investors have 500 mil. No, sorry. 180

mil team has 279 million. But then this community and ecosystem is TBD and starts to unlock in next quarter. >> Community and ecosystem air drops. >> It sounds like airdrops >> and Anom's been screaming at them to give them to give an airdrop. >> But wouldn't I mean is this just like Anom is just teeing this up. He knows that the unlocks happen in like a month or a few weeks. And so he knows that it's coming, but he's just been >> sort of posturing like that they should do it all along.

>> Yeah, >> we know that it's coming in three weeks. Like according to the fact is people are saying that like, oh, is this like paid pump marketing? I don't think it is. I think it's just people being bullish. But >> I think it's probably Anom knows that he's going to get a big airdrop, launched his token, and is obviously one of the largest users of the plat platform as a result of the Anom token. Is in a position for a massive airdrop, wants the airdrop to be bullish, doesn't want people to sell it, knows that the airdrop is coming when the community and ecosystem unlock schedule hits. Y >> and is posturing that this is going to be a net positive for the ecosystem whereas we've seen other airdrops be negative and bearish. This is all sort

of not saying that it's paid. Anom is probably doing this on his own valition but he's it's a psychological game to to to you know you know make essentially make this airdrop a bullish. >> Well they're trying to force them to do it. They keep dogging on them on Twitter. Everyone's like yo pump what the hell. But it seems like according to this again if this schedule is accurate I think it is >> it's coming in a matter of a month whether people were dogging them or not. >> Yeah. Like the unlock is coming for this tokens to be available in like >> I think probably like a month or two.

>> Yeah. It's so they wouldn't have done it. >> Yeah. So here's so here we are in the middle of the year right now. So yeah it's I mean it's a matter of it's like August or September. style. We could get a pump fund airdrop in August or September. Matthew Nal from DeFi report has been bullish on pump for a few months. I mean, dude, just by pure revenue numbers, it is insane. It is it is it is really really good. >> Um >> I think we have our first guest >> ecosystem.

>> Great. Let's do it. >> So that's the pump trade. I'm not in it. Um, I have added it to my watch list. I think like so just to close it out here, um, the thesis for Hype and Lighter is like you want to just own the casino. Like by owning Hype and Lighter, you're not one of the DJens trading per you own the casino. And the thesis for Pump is the same thing. You own the casino. You own the memecoin casino. That's it. like all it's basically just a directional bet on the growth of pump coins and trading and onchain activity happening. And so um

I think if you can find a way to fit it in your portfolio with the thesis of owning the casino, I think you'll I think you can probably do well. >> Yeah. And then you just got to think like which casinos are the most exciting that the market >> most interested in spending attention there. >> Well, yeah. That's why the market's been so anti- pump and that's why it hasn't performed because it's like we're in a bear. No one's going to be trading memes and >> Well, that's that's exactly it. It's like >> there's no trust. >> Liquids buybacks are like pro programmable. Pumps aren't, you know, >> right? There's different games that you can play at different casinos. And so do you expect more people to play the memecoin game or just play the majors game or short?

>> I think the pers game is now the per casino is global finance. >> Yeah. >> Right. And the the pump casino is bull market on chain which >> both can be equally wild. So, >> it's just funny how like we've got this massive institutional like evolution, you know, before our eyes, >> but you and I both know and and that inst in that institutional feels like, you know, the the direction of the market is headed in that direction. It's not going to be >> It seems oppositional to meme coins, but you and I both know that once the bull

gets going, meme coins >> is going to be insane. >> So, And look, I mean, not to go too deep into the TA guys, but we were um we were looking at this and I drew this line on the chart, a single line as Rob would say, and I was basically like, I'm not interested in pump until it flips this level. Beautiful inverse head and shoulders, but you know, whatever. Um, now we flipped the level. And so like just from a technicals perspective, if you're interested in this, anything like this is probably a good buy, you know. So if you get anything down to this level, um

it confirming that as a support instead of a multimonth resistance probably yields you another 30 to 40 50% move if we get a turnaround. So it it technically speaking has turned a lot more attractive off yesterday's weekly close. >> Yeah, technically speaking. >> So >> um someone in the chat says one, what who do we have here? Onearmed bandit says clarity done just not announced. >> More line talking.

>> No way Trump will agree on ethics. Yeah, I agree. When you hear ethics and clarity, all you all you uh need to think about is Trump. So, all right guys, we've got um Jacob, the Jacob C. He's building Coinfellow, the first generalpurpose AI agent with onchain actions and automation, which honestly sounds sick. And the reason why onchain has been such a hassle for everyone is because um it's a lot of work to like always be moving positions and all that.

So let's get him up here. Let's get this show started and let's get him muted in the meat and let's get Jacob C up here. Let's talk about A and Shane. Let's hear them out. Definitely interested. And um yeah, otherwise briefly guys, near as went over really nice bounce, weekly closes, BTC holding above that 200 MA. Um per got smashed but held the line on our range. Kind of stuck in this range now.

>> Um speaking of lines, if syrup reclaims 20 cents, it's on like Donkey Kong. >> Yep. Uh hype closed above previous all-time highs uh and swept the lows, so could be a recipe for some strength. Um what else? What else? What else? Zcash looks ungodly. Um I'm just scared as to what's going to happen when everyone who has sold the bottom decides to return. So all right guys, let's get Jacob C. up in the show.

Let's talk about AI on chain and more. Um, Jacob, welcome to the show, man. >> Thank you so much for having me. >> Good to see you, man. Self-custodial agents on chain. A lot happening. Um, background in MetaMask and been on, you know, obviously, you know, doing things on chain for a while. So, Jacob, uh, welcome to the show. Great to have you. And, yeah, man. I mean, maybe just talk us through your journey because I know that onchain uh with a ledger or a treasure can be a pain in the butt. Uh there's a lot of operations, there's a lot of button clicks, everyone complains about the UX still.

>> Yeah. >> Let's talk about making that better, how AI comes in, what you're building. Uh great to have you, man. >> Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. Um so you asked about my journey. So, uh, I'm a a very early cohort Bitcoiner that, uh, got into the space because I wanted to change the world. I I, um, I care a lot about a lot more than number go up. Um, I I would like the number to go up, but um, uh, I I think, you know, early on I wanted to help work on the the underlying user experience problems that Ethereum had. And uh so I was an early member of the MetaMask team uh and got got to be head of product and then

leader of operations there at MetaMask. And we wanted to you know in in that era we wanted to make it easier to use smart contracts for people to use onchain whether uh the protocols be DeFi or Dows or any of those things. A wallet should explain to you what a smart contract does. It should make it simple to interact with the smart contract and it should make it safe. But in that era, so like leading up to the 2022 period, we saw how far wallets could go at abstracting away some of those problems. And we ran into the complexity of

more and more complex EIPs and protocols and the protocol itself being very difficult for the wallet to render. It's very difficult for it to explain a smart contract for you to you. >> Um, it's very difficult for it to uh to keep you safe, to warn you about a dangerous contract, to uh to help you really transact on chain. And uh so um our team which we have a um we're some of us are ex MetaMask some of us come from other places in the ecosystem but we realized that um last year as uh large language models and agents were becoming more mature that they actually

would enable us to go back and solve some of the problems that were not possible to solve at the wallet layer. These were really central uh problems to using Ethereum and to the the adoption um the adoption curve of Ethereum. So we uh we really uh we took a different approach than most of the agent products that are on the market. Those products they're basically like a chatbot for auto trading or copy trading or some some like narrow use case. And we tried to look at it the same way that we looked at it when we were at MetaMask in the previous cycle where MetaMask really grew because it

was the most extensible wallet. It had access to the most contracts. It could do the most. Developers could build on it. Users could do anything they wanted in one place. It was your primary interface for doing those things. And so we built an agent that can fully understand onchain context and that can interact with any smart contract that can understand what that smart contract is going to do before you use it. That's a product that we built and and recently launched. Um it's new. It's called Coinfellow uh without a w. So coin f l o one word.

>> And uh that product will help you do research. It will help you um execute transactions and it will help you automate anything onchain. It removes your need to use DAPs. You can still use DAPs but we don't think a browser extension injecting itself into web pages uh is how people are going to use smart contracts. And that underlying user experience problem has created a cascading uh bearishness towards DeFi onchain actions like fishing and scamming problems were just ubiquitous in the last cycle to the point where we're in

this situation where people are terrified of using onchain things right now. And so uh we have built this agent that can serve as your primary interface and it's a it's a user experience that is uh normal to people like people use claude and chatgbt and gro and those products every day. Uh why shouldn't their agentic interface also give them access to everything that they want to do on chain? So we provide the user a web interface where you can do it in our our app. That's probably the most robust version that you're going to get. Um, you can also use our agent skill inside of Claude, inside of Hermes, Open Claw,

any of those products. And it is the we're we're the only agentic product that has solved the underlying uh Turing completeness like the same way that Ethereum was so extensible as Ethereum, MetaMask was so was sort of a Turing complete wallet that could use any smart contract, not just a narrow use case. And now we've built an agent that tries to take th those same uh shifts that happened um on chain uh at the wallet layer and now at the agent layer. We want the agent to be able to do anything that the user wants to accomplish.

>> Yeah. You know, one one thing that I think we we think through a lot is, you know, how real and tangible this is. uh because we've seen this particular uh use case go through several different iterations obviously like crypto AI started out very rudimentary and we saw a lot of those things so did you and now I think we all see a common vision for this inevitability of you know the agentic interface everyone is very accustomed to it using it as a chat chatbot in natural language has essentially given the power of developer programmer to so many people that otherwise wouldn't uh and that is both you know onchain and just generally online. So maybe we could start with

saying how like the question of how real this is right now. You mentioned this is a skill that we can incorporate into claude into you know open claw these sorts of tools you know in the agentic world right now the ability for agents to navigate a browser navigate the internet is still relatively early as as far as our understanding. So, so how real are is this right now in which we can implement this into our our agents? If it's still early for them to navigate online, is it is it even more early for them to navigate on chain or are these relatively parallel paths and they're progressing on both of these paths at similar speeds?

>> Yeah, so uh Coinfellow is live today and it can interact with pretty much any contract today. Uh we've had three major iterations and I'll kind of walk you through this. So what we launched in April so we we very first um uh went live at the end of April that was um an agent we called fellow zero. It was capable of basic uh it covered I would guess 60 to 70% of what people wanted to do on chain swapping bridging. it could abstract, it could do a crosschain swap in a single action um without the user even needing to understand what network they were using. Uh that was a that was a really big breakthrough for sort of

the simple basic things and also doing research. But it was um it was basically very uh single transactions, single event. It was you needed to know pretty much what you wanted. And then there were more complex contracts that it couldn't fellow zero couldn't interact with like if you wanted to deploy a liquidity pool uh that became a little too complex for it. Um so we came out with fellow one that I think was more in like the 80 to 90% coverage range where now it could deploy LPS. It could it can optimize um LP positions. It can understand concentrated liquidity and help you build strategies around these things. it

had a much broader intelligence um that for most users if you log into Coinfellow right now um that's what you're going to see. You're going to see Fellow One and this [clears throat] week we're actually launching Fellow 2 >> and the Fellow 2 agent is capable of all of that but also adding layers of automation. So the user is going to be able to define through natural language what they want the agent to do and the agent is going to build a an asynchronous um automated strategy uh that is capable of doing these things asynchronously and that can be anything from I want to be notified about price changes or if my a positions are close

to liquidation or something like that all the way up to um I want the agent to add more uh or or to to optimize my yield on an ongoing basis, move me in and out of liquidity pools as the trading behavior shifts between pairs. It can do auto swaps between the pairs and get you to exactly where you want to be. Um and and I would say with Fellow 2, it's it's also more intelligent than the previous agents. So we we think we'll be around probably like 90 to 95% of contracts that people use will be completely covered under this agent and you'll be able to deploy these

automations. >> And and Jacob, does this um does this work with hardware wallets? Like do you have to sign off on all the messages or is there like a delegate option? Because you know like the dream is to have the security of the hardware wallet with the flexibility of a hot wallet for AI. You know what I mean? Yeah. So, most of the agents on the market, they have their own wallet and you send your funds to that wallet and then you blindly give control to the agent and pray that it doesn't do something stupid with your money and uh that is not sustainable and it's also a really bad idea.

>> So, um so our our custody model is a little bit different. Um, so for basic transactions like you just come to the product, you connect to your existing wallet and you're still approving individual transactions as if you were using a DAP. So you can do that with your hardware wallet like connect your ledger to MetaMask that flow still going to approve your individual transactions. Um, from there you can also uh so there's two two other things that you can do. So we have uh this concept that uh came from MetaMask's research recently which um is a a delegations and um permissions uh ERC. Um that's uh 7710 7715.

Uh, and those are going to uh allow you to uh grant narrow permissions to the agent to say you can do these things uh with these tokens up to this amount for this period of time. and to create automations that still use your primary liquidity, but because you have um a layer of onchain permissions that sit in a privileged uh they sit in a privileged position over your um o over your your funds.

Even if the agent were to go completely rogue, let's say it was just malicious or something, it still wouldn't be able to act outside of the permissions and guard rails that you have enforced on it. >> Yep. >> Uh we do also have another um option that uh we we do have a lot of users that want general power like they want the kind of like I transfer funds to the agent and it can run wild and >> y >> do things I didn't think of. And so we're also introducing that with uh with Fellow 2. There will be uh what we call automation accounts or automation wallets. And so you can transfer funds in like a certain amount of funds into that and then the agent will will fully manage those. Um so it's it's really the

goal is to create sort of a a spectrum of custody solutions that are riskaware and that follow the the needs and goals of the user. so that the user is fully in control in a self self-custodial way at every point. Um, >> yep. Yep. And have you seen some very unique strategies on chain from the kind of more run wild like fully automated uh capacity and like is there you know what does that actually look like? Is it a you know here is what I want to accomplish or here's my risk or kind of how do you like what's been the you know outcomes there?

>> Yeah. make me a millionaire in 30 days. Make mistakes >> like here's 100 grand go 10x this for me. >> So that will become possible with fellow 2 and we have a small number of users that have fellow 2 right now. Um and uh the the fellow two uh like so one of the things that people you know in DeFi summer there were very very high yields like the previous cycle but nowadays there are not so many of those and that was one of the reasons that we tried to really train it on LP use cases because that's one of the few places that there is still very high yields but they're very volatile yields.

as the pairs that are popular change and that really needs an agent to actively manage the funds. And so we have users that are doing stuff like uh I just saw a liquidity pool that was offering uh 300% APY on uh trading between wreath and ETH uh rocket pool staked ETH and ETH. And so this is like >> very very low impermanent loss because those assets are so heavily correlated. And uh you know this is a pair where the users are are getting these crazy yields because there's high trading volume happening between that and it was a

relatively obscure pool and all of a sudden the the agent helps you discover this this crazy yield um on the assets in your wallet protects your interests. Um and there's a bunch of things like that. I mean that's just one I thought of off the top of my head. in general like the agent is going to discover things based on your your risk tolerance behaviors. We want to introduce also uh like a profile system where the user really starts telling it these are the protocols I like, protocols I don't like, the risk tolerances I have and you just get to a place where the agent has full onchain context and it's like

wallets were supposed to be your user agent. Like when we used to talk about them, we imagined the wallet as like a wealth manager or a lawyer who's stepping in and helping you. And they're not really that good at fulfilling that vision. Um, and that's where we saw the limitations and that's where the the agentic layer comes in and solves the missing gaps at the wallet layer. >> Yeah. And then just um couple other things on the AI side. Is there um are you guys using a specific like model type or aggregator or like what are you guys doing to choose the best or or even like just from your your experience what has been the best like through back

testing through real life testing like is there a specific lab or a specific model or specific format that's been working the best? >> Yeah. So the truth is none of the off-the-shelf models are capable of transacting on chain. They are not trained on that in their um in their uh their their training data. Just none of them touch that. And I think uh like actually like Claude for example uh they have an extensive marketplace that has uh you know agent skills that allow you to do some onchain research but they even prohibit

uh transactions on chain. And so that that's why like people have to bring our agent skill into different contexts or um like we can't be listed in the anthropic marketplace yet because of their rules and I I think these large foundation model companies are afraid of touching those kinds of things because of the risk to them. So uh we've built our agent on top of uh various um offtheshelf models. I won't name too much not to reveal all of our secrets, but we built our own uh learning uh pipeline and process that is our own proprietary thing and it uses

off-the-shelf models but adds a lot on top of them and that's the only way really to accomplish this. I think we will get to a place where we'll be forking um some of the open weights uh open source models that are off the shelf and releasing um versions of those that people will be able to use in in other uh some of the the model aggregator uh products like open router and stuff like that. Um that'll be available. That's a big part of our road map. Uh and I so I we'll have like a an onchain aware open source model for people to start using uh soon.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean Kimmy K3 coming out you know >> K3 by the way. >> Yeah. So like you know open source models are just up there with the best of the best when it comes to the frontier you know model labs companies in the US. So there's really no downside or sacrifice in the intelligence. I saw Kimmy K3 is a little bit more expensive than some of the other openweight models. But when you're building this stack, you need, you know, the model, let's you know, for for this case, you use an open open weight model like Kimmy K3 going to get you super great intelligence. You know, you guys can program in the skill, but when it comes to the agent, you still need a harness, right? you need a harness in order for it to, you know, kind of give it the

ability to go on and make certain, you know, uh, take certain actions, right? So, you can program in some of the onchain actions, but there's maybe a a broader set of actions that it needs to take. And so, how would you I Yeah, for sure. Like, don't give away any secrets, but if you have an open weight model like a Kimmy K3, you know, you guys have this skill, what is the missing piece? Is it is there a harness or is there all you need is the model and the and the skill? >> Well, it needs to be trained on the onchain transactions which is not what most people are doing. They're they're >> but that's the part that you guys do at Coinfellow right?

>> Yeah, that that is specifically like that's our our unique value proposition essentially. I mean there's a few also our custody model is different than what most people are doing but um the the combination of training it on historical transactions and contracts and those sort of things like we think that's the future chat bots that auto trade is cool. I understand why people want to make hyperlquid chat bots or whatever, but um to really >> Does it does it need a harness?

>> Um so yes. Um yes, it Yeah, I will be I will be vague there, but forgive me. >> Okay, we're not gonna we're not going to ask you to give away any any trade secrets. >> Sure. It's very very cool. Um and and it does see it does feel like this is inevitable. Last question that I have for me is uh just like what's the biggest bottleneck like the largest limitation? What's the limiting factor? You know, if you guys get a 10x on this and it just compounds, is it user adoption feedback? Yeah. What what's the the limiting factor that you guys are are tackling right now?

>> I think the I mean the market conditions are such right now that people are afraid to do DeFi right now. Um, I think people are afraid of systemic risk of models exploiting contracts and stuff like that and and that's coming and it's inevitable and we're going to have pain um as an ecosystem for a short period of time and then all of our contracts are going to be really hardened and these problems are going to be solved. Um, so that that's the like the biggest thing we want to do is restore um confidence in DeFi and get people doing things on chain again. And so I don't

think of our product as primarily like our competition. It's not with these other agentic products. It's like let's let's get people on chain and get builders on chain again and and restore the vibrant fun Ethereum ecosystem that we had in the past. um that that is the biggest thing that we want to solve and as a I think that's a that's a challenge that we as an ecosystem all have to take responsibility for and like not be so cynical and thinking Ethereum is reduced to a memecoin memecoin casino or like whatever.

>> Yeah. uh like I I I'd say um technical problems though uh the the biggest problems are uh really like as new types of contracts come into being uh making sure the agent is being trained on them. And so that's another uh thing that we're building internally is a a [clears throat] pipeline that as contracts uh become higher in usage, the the agent automatically starts researching those contracts, learning how to use them, learning uh their shape and just uh staying in sync with where the ecosystem is at any given time. These are actually

I mean like we started building this um 11 months ago and so uh they're surprisingly hard problems and that's why I think most of the ecosystem has tried to build these like simplistic chat bots or use case agents. They're a lot easier to make but uh the the prize is getting the agent to have full onchain context. I'd also like there's another thing of like getting it to access on unverified contracts just from by code and understanding that that's a really hard technical problem. That's a longtime uh goal of ours as well.

>> Love it. >> Very cool. >> Thanks for your time, buddy. Thanks. Thanks for coming on. I'm I'm going to try this. I've been offchain in terms of using, you know, my day-to-day portfolio for since like end of last year. And mainly it was just because of just how [snorts] annoying it is to have to use a ledger and treasure and freaking click and click and click and click and and so I'm going to try this out, see how it goes. >> Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. Uh people can try this at coinfellow.com. >> That's coinfllo.com. Uh we also have a testing program for people that want to use the more exotic uh agents. We'll have uh fellow two live uh this week as well and uh but the

fellow one is is incredible already. So um go have fun, break things, try things, give us feedback. >> Yeah, >> we we'd love to build together with you. >> Beautiful. >> Awesome. >> Thanks for coming on. >> Thanks, Jacob. >> Thank you guys. See you next time. >> Cheers, man. [screaming] >> All righty, Rob. >> I mean, >> yeah, make no mistakes, right? Um, it's cool because it's finally becoming real. I mean, for so long it was kind of smoking mirrors and now it's like, you know, the these things are actually deployable. Uh, you can just run it right inside, you know, as a clawed skill.

>> Yeah. >> And not only are like these models getting trained on the data, you also have the agents that are becoming more familiar with taking actions online and on chain. So, all of these forces are converging and accelerating at the same time. and they're all sort of going hand in hand making the others better. >> And it also sounds like there's a bit of that app store problem that crypto had where it's like >> um you couldn't put crypto apps on the app store for so long in the same way like this anthropic marketplace you can't do onchain use cases yet.

>> The the the difference the better thing here is that we've got open weight models and it's not like there was an open app store like Apple had the monopoly on all of this. I guess you could have had Android and maybe there was some things and that's effectively the same thing here. But yeah, no, you have open weights and so you can use the skill in an open model. >> Yeah. Different like a different provider. You can use like uh a different website. You don't have to use Claude's website to to go on. You can just take what take the intelligence bring it to somewhere else that's going to not have the same rules.

>> Yeah. Yeah. gets a little funky because my again my and I I'm not an expert on this but my understanding is that you know you have the model that's like the intelligence here. You've got the certain training data or skill that fellow brings in but then you need a harness in order for this model to this harness effectively gives it like arms and legs on online. >> Yeah. >> Like it gives it the ability to like click things, go to websites, press it, you know on a keyboard like press enter like these sorts of things. >> Yeah. And that, you know, Jacobs was a little bit, you know, a little bit shifty when it comes to like >> tell us the trade secrets.

>> The you didn't want to tell us the trade secrets. It sounds like either they they've got like a custom harness or they might be, and I don't want to get anyone in trouble, but maybe they're circumventing, you know, Claude's rules in order to like get this thing on there. Odds of Opus 4.9 being released by the end of the week set at 62%. As Anthropic continues to extend Fable's inclusion in subscription plans. Okay. Honest take Andy Rob. What is the BTC bull thesis? I'm struggling because the trend is that Bitcoin mining companies are moving their energy into AI compute because it's more profitable, which is uh Shamath had a good post about that.

I'm going to pull that up real quick. Actually, >> I will uh start responding to this with one point uh while Andy brings up Chimath's tweet because it is on the nose here. Um there is certainly opportunities on the AI side and you know there's miners out there that have uh shifted their compute uh from mining Bitcoin to essentially mining AI tokens. Yeah. Uh or contributing compute to the AI world. The point that I'll make here is that Bitcoin is a self-correcting machine while AI is not. Bitcoin has you know obviously the hash rate uh and it has um different mechanisms uh where uh the diff it effectively the difficulty adjustment is is the name for it, right?

And so kind of back to Bitcoin 101, Bitcoin basics here is right if you have a uh significant or any kind of mining uh offload, right? So people take their mining hardware because it is the same GPUs that you can use to mine bitcoin versus contribute tokens to the AI world. If there is a portion that moves uh their ai their compute from bitcoin the bitcoin network into a difficulty right the hash power of bitcoin would reduce because less people are contributing compute and it would become easier to mine bitcoin which would make it more profitable. And so these miners have algorithms that say hey based on the difficulty, how much uh what is the

likelihood of mining a bitcoin, the expected value of contributing resources in terms of GPU compute to the network and I can effectively measure an ROI from that probability and I can compare that to the AI world and what it my ROI would be contributing tokens. Yeah. And so maybe there's math, actual math because Chimath, you know, talks in sort of, you know, these large, you know, broad qualitative assumptions, but there's probably math on here that says, hey, when the hash power is X, the difficulty becomes Y, the expected return is Z. And I could compare that.

>> Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Can you say that again? >> The hash power is X. >> Okay. [clears throat] If the hash power drops, right, it becomes easier and so the difficulty is Y, right? And that's going to fluctuate based on your hash rate and get easier, more difficult to mine Bitcoin, >> which is therefore going to affect your >> your expected return, which is Z. So let's say let's just walk through like you don't need specific numbers for this case, but just the relative effect that each of these have these variables have on each other. Hash power drops, right?

X goes down because miners leave to go mine AI. >> Yep. >> Y becomes easier, right? So difficulty becomes easier. Z be goes up because it becomes easier. And so your expected let's say one unit of compute is going to drive a larger expected return because it's easier to mine Bitcoin because the hash rate dropped. >> Yeah. And >> this is a self self reinforcing thing, right? Whereas AI right now is it but AI you could you made the argument at the top that it's not selfreinforcing but all markets are supply and demand driven and so they are not we know that >> and and so yeah you >> they're not like cryptographically

programmatically designed. It's just if China releases these models and >> you know all of a sudden the amount of compute that we need to get the same int intelligence goes down then okay then we get this kind of uh demand uh uh decay for a bit >> and the same thing vice versa if Kimmy K3 comes out and it did and it says hey we have so much demand that we're actually constrained by compute even though this is an openweight model which it did then we need to pay even more for compute and therefore the effective return of people contributing tokens to the AI world is going to go up and it's going to make it even more uh profitable to go into the AO a AI world and

therefore even less uh favorable to stay in the Bitcoin world. >> Yeah, I but then again and the Bitcoin world's going to reinforce as well. The difficulty is going to uh adjust. It's going to become easier and then your expected return of the of the Bitcoin world is going to go up. So compute is at you know got all the leverage in the world because it's con completely constrained. It is a extremely valuable resource. The AI world needs it and wants it. The Bitcoin world needs it and wants it and it's just a matter of these hand springing over one another and who's going to pay more for it. Um and right now it seems like the AI world is is going to pay more for it. But I mean let's look up the a graph of a Bitcoin

hash rate. Obviously the other part here the other part here is um the price of Bitcoin >> and so as Bitcoin goes up >> if your difficulty is going even let's just assume the difficulty stays the same and you have the same amount of expected Bitcoin as you know for one unit of compute because that Bitcoin is more valuable you know your expect your total expected return is higher and and so as Bitcoin goes um you know the profitability uh equation becomes becomes different right because um yes you know teams and that that's where I think this is this

is ultimately headed is that AI is becoming commoditized it's becoming cheaper it's becoming it's you know there's further and further optimizations every single time one of these models gets released it becomes more token efficient it needs less compute for the same amount of intelligence whereas Bitcoin again assuming Bitcoin goes up and not down, you know, it becomes more profitable to mine. >> So, look at this. So, Bitcoin's gone up. You know, these charts really just mimic the charts of Bitcoin. But you can obviously see that this the mining difficulty, I mean, man, we should have just raised like 500K in university and been like, we're going to spin up a Bitcoin mining facility. We would have be so retired by now, Rob.

>> We'd be so we'd be going public. Well, we have a common we have a common friend. Uh this common friend went to our university. He was the one that got me into into Bitcoin in high school. And we did have this, you know, wild idea of leveraging like the computer lab at high school to mine. >> At that time, it was a privacy coin that will remain unnamed, but also Bitcoin. Yeah. >> So, that that was very much in the cards early on, but the electricity costs are just that make that unt untenable. It's hard to tell if there's actually any real change happening in the mining difficulty in terms of miners leaving for AI or it's just that the price is down. So people are have stopped mining for a bit

because right >> they're negative and they're going to wait to turn back on once it's, you know, they're in the positive. >> Same thing with the hash rate. It's just like, yeah, it's gone down, but it also peaked pretty much at the top and is now down. Um, and if you mean if you zoom in even more, I mean it's pretty it's pretty funky, but it kind of just mimics the So yeah, I mean I don't know how much real um change like let's see is there a minor >> I did see um >> yeah minor revenue.

>> I did see there was a solo minor which was always the holy grail. some guy with a single computer, not like one of these big mining facilities out, you know, in the middle of nowhere with a ton of electricity, but just a solo just a guy in his basement with a with a computer was able to mine a a block and get uh the block reward of 3.14 Bitcoin. >> No way. >> Which is Yeah. >> Following the math. Yes, sir. I agree. >> Should we be more bullish Bitcoin or more bullish on Tao? 21 million TOAO tokens that are coming from the AI compute rollout.

>> Probably not sure how you can ask that. They're not even comparable. >> Yeah, obviously it's very different value propositions. >> Uh there's a positive correlation between Bitcoin price and hash power. The lower the hash power, the lower the price. Yeah. But I think it's important to look at which one is lead the leading indicator. And the price is the leading indicator. As we talked about, if the price goes up, more miners come over because the expected value return is higher and therefore more hash rate comes online. So yes, they're very much correlated, but Bitcoin price is the leading indicator and hash power is the lagging indicator.

>> Yep. Yep. So I mean I think Shimoth's got a point. What do you think about the other point? >> What point? Marginal liquidity would rather speculate in prediction markets than equity markets. The World Cup's over, Shamath. What are you betting on? There's no NBA. There's no NBA. There's no NHL. There's no NFL. The World Cup's over. Like, are are people really are the same people interested in speculating on crypto trading? Taylor Swift wedding markets. Like, I don't know. Equities I totally get. >> Yeah. I mean, people this has been the thing because over the last six months, equity markets have made all-time highs.

Bitcoin has depreciated. So, I could understand how marginal liquidity is reallocating itself to equities, >> but that changes so fast. >> Yeah, >> it's a matter of like, oh, Bitcoin's at 75. You should probably take a look. It's been beaten down. There's an opportunity here. So, yes, these changes feel structural, but it could be wrong. You're 10 months late. Interesting point. The first one feels temporary. The second one more durable. Hash power energy going to Bitcoin doesn't determine the price. Network difficulty adjust miners go offline.

Long-term Bitcoin price is mostly a measure of how people fear inflation. There seems to be no end in sight to democracies everywhere running deficits. Certainly didn't stop you from shilling the top of [laughter] you're about nine months late to his realization. ETH coded. Yeah, I think Chimoth is uh I mean it's good to, you know, keep keep a temp check on on these sorts of things, but two is pretty self-correcting. And uh one, can we talk about Shamas's 28 million page sorry Rob 28 million page privacy token thesis when when Zcash looks like this?

Oh my god, I need to get long like today. I mean, look at this. Look at this. And then look at this. I mean I mean we're ready, man. >> What is that? Zcash Bitcoin. >> We're so ready to go here. >> So um Ironwood comes out very soon. >> Yeah. Eight days. >> Expect a pump into that and then some sort of underperformance after. But I think that could take us to new all-time highs. Well, when you talk about underperformance after I, you know, every time, bless you. There's a >> excuse me, there's a, you know, an upgrade. This protocol's in flight. Like all of the, you know, there's so much

Zcash in circulation. It's not like, you know, this thing is just going to pause, but there is an upgrade. And so, you know, we we talk a lot when it comes to like every time ETH does a hard fork, right? Zcash putting this this pool in place is effectively like repairing the airplane while it's in the air. like it is a major technical undertaking. Um I think everyone believes in the team and expects it to go well but there is a risk that this thing gets implemented and there's two two there's really three potential outcomes. Two of them negative, one of them positive. The two negative ones less likely. The the the first potential negative outcome is that there's a problem with the upgrade. The pool gets implemented. You know there's

some sort of bug. you know, there's some sort of, you know, vulnerability with the upgrade itself. >> Probably low low likelihood of this happening because it's a very technical team and, you know, they've got seems like they've got Anthropic in their back pocket. They were able to use, uh, Mythos to doublech checkck the protocol. Uh, I remember Zuko tweeting about that. The second thing, uh, second potential outcome that's negative, but again, low likelihood is they implement the upgrade. There's no problem with the upgrade per se, but they realize through the upgrade that there was counterfeit Zcash created and that I think is >> again I I don't know what the like what the probability of this is. Maybe it's

listed on prediction markets and I'd be curious to see >> that's why I think there's a chance for this thing to pump into the news and then the res the result of the news will probably dictate what happens from there. >> Exactly. And so I think you know the most likely outcome is the third happy path that there's no counterfeit Zcash created. There's no vulnerability with the upgrade. The upgrade actually helps us reinforce that there was no counterfeit Zcash created. And so I think >> you know maybe we pop into it and there's some sort of like funky volatility that happens right around it.

But then depending on what happens and the most likely path is that there's no counterfeit Zcash and you know we we end up doing quite well as a result. >> So I watched this video and I think you guys will like it because I think it explains the way to think about it right now. Can you guys hear it?

I got it on my screen. Can you guys hear it in the chat? You're not getting the levels. Rob, can you hear it? Uh, I cannot. Okay, no worries. Basically, he's saying Tikeke is saying that like um he's basically saying that um what is he saying? He's basically saying that um there is a lot of people that sold on that dump and um if the

upgrade happens and everything's safe, there will be a lot of people who are sidelined and who kind of wrote this off and would be power for the ride to 750 and above. You know, I'm not fully sidelined, but I my position is smaller than it I think it should be. And so I think it just kind of made sense to me. >> I think uh I mean this is >> I mean it looks insane. I mean it looks nuts. It's the best looking chart I think in the space right now.

>> I'm also not you don't even need to pay attention to the I'm going to ask our producer in the back to go back on mute. Um you also don't need to really even look at the techn I mean yeah we we have you know 750 targets thousand 2,000 but um if you just look at the fundamentals right there was this vulnerability uh it is still a question mark whether that's been fully resolved >> once you get through it's almost like this bullish unlock thing once you get past this potential negative >> yes >> you know force you know it's like this weight has been lifted off the shoulders >> makes it more anti-fragile is thesis it's like early Bitcoin, it's like there were so many reasons why Bitcoin was going to die for whatever reason it, you know, could have possibly been.

>> Um, and then all of a sudden you were like, well, um, it didn't die. It survived. And so, um, it's kind of like it every event that it gets through is becomes more and more bullish for it as an asset and as a network. It's >> resilience and Lindy. >> Yeah, exactly. Hype, hype's at a must hold, you know. Ran these lows. Got to move up. Still not even close to being out of the woods on this. I don't think Bitcoin moving up would probably save hype.

Bitcoin getting up to this next moving average looks likely at this point. If we get a daily couple day, you know, daily closes up here. >> I can't handle the technical. >> So, So, we'll do it. We'll do it after. Um, actually, no. Let's just do it. Let's just rip it real quickly. >> So, >> I just can't handle the technical analysis, man. Like, cuz I'm over here thinking like, what's the catalyst for it to just for it to continue? I don't I just can't bring myself to like accept that it's a foregone conclusion because we have a daily close over a certain number.

>> No, I hear you. It's just more about like the trend. So [sighs] >> oil, copper, silver, gold, platinum, palladium, uranium stocks, blah blah blah. Everything always tokenized. Find them on your favorite decks. Let's go. >> How's uranium doing these days? >> It's cooked. I mean, it's it's not like I saved myself much by riding per down, but I mean, >> yikes. >> I'd dump this thing down. >> It's probably ready to get back in. I'd dump this thing at like 49. >> Nice. >> So, save yourself some downside there.

It's not like the loss is any is any is is any better than PR currently, but we'll figure it all out. It'll all work itself out. PER is coming back to life here a bit. So, >> all right, guys. Let's get into our daily equity powered by our friends at Dinari. Um, as always, guys, our daily segment covering the equity market. Let's get into it. [music] Everyone wants US stocks. Foreign private private sector net purchases of US stocks rose $35 billion month overmonth in May one to 121 billion.

Second largest inflow on record. This marks the second consecutive monthly increase. Yeah, that's not just crypto guys going over to equities. That's a lot of capital. Uh by comparison, the record monthly inflow was 130 billion in November 2024. Year-to date, foreign private investors purchased $270 billion dollars of US stocks. I mean, this has been a mass migration from all over the world within the US from from different industries all over the world into equities. Uh to put this in perspective, foreign investors just dumped 31 billion of South Korean stocks in June and May.

They are coming into US equities. uh largest outflows on record over in Korea, largest inflows on record over here in the US. Um furthermore, foreign investors also sold 18 billion billion of Taiwanese stocks in June, the second largest sale on on record. And all of this is flowing into the US stock market. Uh this is powering the AI uh capex. Um and so if we scroll down, we see the foreign net purchases of US stocks. This is massive inflows um into the US stock market from abroad. This is powering uh the market as a whole. I mean if you guys tuned in to daily equity the last time we did it I think on Friday you would have heard how

everyone's trying to call the top on US equities and we just don't believe it. Uh we believe if you look at the fundamentals then you can understand how this continues to have room to run and we're not in danger. Uh if you look at the revenue multiples uh these things are trading at pretty reasonable multiples something like a 25 uh P toe E uh that is not historically overpriced. Um it is pretty much on average with historical uh uh historical results. Uh you also heard us on the daily equity earlier in the week talk about how much of a cash position US households have and so US households have have more

cash. Uh foreign investors are looking greater into the US stock market rather than foreign stock markets. Uh the treasury market also is just a little bit broken. Uh if you look at the bond market, it doesn't look particularly favorable. Yeah. >> And so all of this is contributing to uh the US equity market just continuing to get inflows. Um eventually we would expect that this thing, you know, has to correct, but we're just not in danger of that right now. You know, how do we relate this to crypto?

You know, if we're looking at, you know, what are we the catalyst in crypto? Some people have called like, okay, well, we need an equities downturn in order for this rotation trade to happen and for uh capital to rotate out of US equities or just equities broadly into crypto. >> I would suggest we don't necessarily need that to happen. I mean, we're ticking up today. Um, I could see just pure outperformance if we have macro improve. Equities can continue to run. there's room to run and crypto has room to run and then you have this relative strength and then maybe you get some sort of rotation trade. I don't think the rotation trade is necessary. I think it could help but it's not necessary and I think look the equities market could

just continue to rally. What do you think Andy? Yeah, man. I maybe we get like an August September move down, but I mean, yeah, I'm I'm with you on the kind of longer term view. And the Korean Cosby index had this crazy boom this year, last 18 months. Significant pullback. SK Highix liquidated a ton of people. So, the Koreans over there got got had their hands full for a couple days last week. Um yeah, I mean, people want equities. People want to trade them on chain and they want to do it now. That's what dinari is providing. This has been Daily Equity powered by Dinari, the leading US tokenized equities platform onchain. US launch coming imminently. Guys, let's get Salman up on the show, the GC of Plume, who will be

giving us a bit of detail and insight into what's happening on Capitol Hill. If you aren't talking about UWU today, what are you doing? It is a story worth covering. Okay, I don't even know what UWU is. So apparently I don't know what I'm doing. UWU unicorn unicorn. Is that what it is? Unicorn stock. Unicorn token. Okay. Yeah, we're we're just going to pass on that for now, buddy. Um let's get someone on up. He is He's fresh off of a couple days stint in Capitol Hill. Obviously, we've got clarity context. We're still dealing with ethics. Whenever I hear the word ethics, I just think about Trump smiling

and saying, "I didn't know I made a billion dollars from my memecoin." So, um, let's hear what someone has to say. Get a quick insight into, uh, Capitol Hill, what they're thinking, what's happening over there. Let's bring them up. >> Hey, Andy. Hey, Rob. How you doing? >> Good to have you, buddy. >> Good. Good to see you. >> Good to see you. Thanks for having me. >> Weekend. How was your weekend? Did you get some time off cut some grass? >> I did. I [clears throat] got uh kids that are 10 and seven, so I spend a lot of the weekend driving around the DMV the DMV area.

>> Love it. Love it. Yeah, we had that smog in New York. I was in Cape Cod. It was uh it was nice to get away from the city. That's for sure. Um and it sounds like you had a busy end of the week in DC, man. So, yeah, I know we're on the precipice of clarity. I think we're looking at the August 10th or 17th deadline is kind of what we're hearing. And I mean people are people are throwing all sorts of figures and predictions and takes. So wanted to get your insights as to what your experience was the last couple days in DC and uh yeah man fill us in.

>> Yeah. Well I you know while I was in DC um there was basically four themes to the discussions. Um and the gap is both a political one and a policy one. think the policy ones um we can we can cross those. Um the political ones though are challenging. Um and probably the one that's the the biggest impediment to this bill becoming law is around ethics. Um so Donald Trump indicated I think he uh he he made about $2 billion last year um in his latest financial disclosures off of crypto uh mostly off of his meme memecoin.

Um and that's fueled a lot of um controversy um to say the least um publicly in particular among Senate Democrats and we need you know at least nine of them um I think uh just given that there seems to be a couple Republicans that won't be voting for this bill um to get to 60 which is what we need uh to for this bill to get out of the Senate. Um, nonetheless, it was clear, you know, from um, senior Dems and their representatives um, that Dems do want to get to Yes.

Now, I don't know whether that's signaling um, you know, to to stay on the good side of the industry or whether that's uh, it it's it's earnest. I think it's earnest. Um, I I do think they recognize that uh, while this bill may not be perfect, it's a step in the right direction. Um and it removes this cloud um of not having legislation in this space um over the heads of of Democrats which um has been perceived as a political problem for Democrats uh coming out of the Biden administration.

So I'm optimistic. Um I uh spoke with a friend in the administration a few weeks ago. He asked me, you know, what I thought the odds of this bill passing were. at the time I said 20%. Um, he said, "Uh, you're you're being very optimistic." Um, so I actually came out of the meetings last week feeling even better. Um, I think we're at 40 maybe even 50%. Um I think if we can get get a workable outcome on ethics, um one that in particular uh would prohibit the use of memecoins for you know fundraising uh by by federal politicians. Um I think we can we can

get enough uh [snorts] Democrats to support this. Uh one of the things that came across in in meetings particularly with uh Republicans >> was uh that over the weekend we would be seeing some language on ethics um by today actually was their goal. Um I don't think that's uh that's come out yet. Um I haven't seen that language. Um it may be being socialized uh first with uh a select group of Democratic senators um that are uh looking at this issue very closely. uh Ruben Ggo being one of them. Um I'm hearing Adam Schiff is another one. Um and then one or two others. So there may be some private negotiations uh going on as we speak um

around the ethics language. So fingers crossed uh that we can get to a good outcome on that point. Um and I think the the test will be whether the ethics rules would be durable enough to prevent um the kind of uh thing that we saw happen earlier in the administration or actually I guess the memecoin launched the day before. >> Yeah. >> Um the uh the administration. >> Yeah. It's you know you can't retroactively go back and do anything but obviously forward looking is the is the goal. you know, when it comes to that ethics point specifically, you mentioned just about the, you know, pro, uh, prohibiting the future use case of, you know, call it meme coins or tokens as a means for fundraising for federal

officials. Are there other components of what getting that ethics clause over the line would entail? Like, is there other negotiation points that uh come specifically from either party that are notable to to mention? >> Yeah. So, um, one of one of the things that I'm hearing that's being negotiated is, well, you can't trust the federal government to police itself. You can't you can't expect the executive branch to police itself. Um, and so there are um negotiations happening as to uh relating to the authority of state attorneys general um to have some kind of enforcement power in addition to federal law enforcement.

So that is one of the areas um that is being explored. Um and uh you know you could see something where state AGS might be be authorized to go after uh violations of the ethics rules should the federal government not act. Um so that's one of the the ideas that I that I think is uh is is is in the is in the discussions. >> Got it. Um, what one of the there was a thought that occurred to me over the last couple weeks on this ethics point, which was maybe out of maybe a wild concept, but you know, obviously the Trump and his family made a lot of money in part of this memecoin and it it feels as if you know, him and his family are

somewhat personally attached to this ethics point. And so, you know, given the the emphasis to get this through, but the limitation that we're having, you know, around this ethics point of view, mostly from from Democrats, is it at all possible that that we get a situation in which, you know, Democrats are are putting this ethics language together, but there are some personal targets at the president in which, you know, he would find them like egregious. And so, we actually get language that progresses. But, you know, it gets to the president's desk and because of this, you know, egregious language, he decides not to sign.

>> I don't think it'll get to that point. Um, the White House has been heavily involved on the the evolution of this ethics language. So, I think um I think the more likely thing you will see um is ethics language either not coming out or ethics language coming out um that isn't enough for Democrats to get to yes. um in the latter case and in the former case we we just kind of see this bill languish um without any ethics language coming out. I think um that second scenario where some ethics language comes out um and doesn't get enough Democratic support is is the more likely one. Um I I think it's you know 50/50 the ethics language comes out and it's

unacceptable to a sufficient number of Democrats or it comes out and it is. Um I think those are the the the two two more likely scenarios. Um but if but it is possible that nothing ever comes out because it never gets sufficient um you know even like tenative buyin from the the Democrats leading the negotiations with the with the White House and and Senate Republicans. >> Yeah. Somebody here in the chat says as a former Dem I voted Trump but I'll be voting Dems again if they can't get clarity in other pro crypto initiatives done by midterm in 2028. Just curious if that kind of sentiment is something that you think is resounding amongst people in DC, voters, citizens. Yeah, >> I I think uh you know, privately um a

lot of uh Republicans >> that want this bill to pass um have expressed some um you know, frustration with how far this administration has gotten into, you know, let's let's say charitably questionable activities relating to crypto. Um, and so that is one of the one of the issues that this that this negotiation has to surmount is that perception. Um, I'll note, you know, I testified before the House Financial Services Committee on tokenization. Um, and these ethics concerns were a major topic of discussion. Um, Democrats wanted to talk about it quite a bit. Um but what was notable is no Republicans were really

trying to defend um you know the the most controversial issues you know particularly around the memecoin or world liberty financial. >> Yeah. I mean it's pretty hard to it's pretty hard to uh I mean yeah so I mean somebody else in the chat says uh Trump and Baron could have just supported Bitcoin and ETH and legitimized the industry but of course they had to go and do the meme and the world liberty etc. Um that's the that's the political side. You mentioned that the policy side you think is far more manageable feasible to kind of you know you know get through terms of obstacles there. What are those obstacles there that are uh kind of on that spectrum of difficulty from you know easy to hard?

What do those look like? How's the chatter kind of on those topics? >> Yeah. So from uh starting with hard putting aside ethics of course um the provisions on DeFi are also a major um area of uh negotiation. Um one of the key Democrats in these negotiations is is Mark Warner who is vice chair of the intelligence committee very plugged into you know the world of uh combating moneyaundering um sanctions things of that sort. So he's a very um he's seen as a a very credible voice on national security. Um and he has indicated that he wants to see more protections um against illicit finance

use of regulated DeFi. And then well what does regulated DeFi mean? So in the latest version of the bill we have some uh AML requirements that are applied to the what are called distributed ledger messaging systems. So these are these are frontends basically. So um how broad or how narrow um that requirement is I think will be is is is another topic that's being heavily negotiated. Um another area that is uh also um you know potentially um you know an area where the policy gap I think is is is manageable. Um and by the way I do think that the D5 provisions you know we

can get to a manageable outcome. um the parties are not that far from one another. Um is uh the the the other topic is around the um conflicts of interest. So a lot of crypto exchanges are vertically integrated. You know the brokerage function is integrated with the exchange function which is integrated with the custody or clearing house function. Um, traditionally in US markets, uh, we have tried to, um, manage those conflicts of interest by making it hard for, you know, uh, one layer of the supply chain to be vertically integrated with another layer of the supply chain. Um, and so some Democrats have been pushing

back uh that they want to see stronger conflicts language. Um and so that's another area uh where where I think the the policy gap uh should be is narrowing and and and should be should be narrowed >> conflicts. Uh could you just elaborate what what's like what does that mean? >> Yeah. So for example um you could have uh an instance where um a particular token may be held by a asset management arm um of a uh crypto exchange and then that product ends up getting you know pushed to your feed whereas competing products are are not pushed to your to your trading feed.

>> So things of that sort >> right because it's been kind of like a a free-for-all. It's like, you know, whatever these exchanges want to do, they can effectively do it. I I'm curious about token fundraising, ICOs. We had Hester Purse on recently. She spoke, she's very she's very, you know, optimistic about capital formation onchain. Is there anything in this bill specifically that it um speaks to the enablement of this or uh rules around ICOs and these types of things? Yeah. So, uh the bill has a framework where u before a project is decentralized um that it can actually raise money from the public um subject to a cap of uh don't quote me on this uh 75 million per

year uh up to I believe 200 million um in in the aggregate um before the token itself graduates to decentralized status. Um and so this would this would provide another funding mechanism for projects um other than VC capital. Um and I've heard you know some some VCs connecting the dots on this and and you know complaining about it maybe not as loudly as uh on other topics but um on on this topic u there is a significant um alternative path for projects to get access to capital other than VC funding.

>> Yeah. Yeah. The whole you know it's funny someone the whole dynamic right now that is ongoing in the industry is you know revenue buybacks treating token holders like you know first class citizens trying to think about these assets as equities investor calls open financial sharing transparency uh you know profitability and the whole token equity dynamic split was a result of the uh rule making around the obviously fraudulent 2017 ICO craze that then led to this safe sing simple agreement for future equity plus token warrant dynamic for all venture capitalists to invest in the space and now we're trying to like go get away from that because you know

people are realizing that that they want to invest in a in a I don't know a more investable asset in the space and so hopefully this contributes to that uh the the removal of some of that structure you know or at least the eventual removal of it um and a bit more of like a a a equity like token structure in the future for investors to have in the space. I think that's like something that's plaguing the space a bit. And so um hoping that that that would kind of contribute to the reverse of the Gendler era that caused this kind of uh token capital formation structure as the only kind of go-to uh accreditation things. Is there anything on um accredited investor rules in the

US? Um things of that nature in this bill specifically for crypto or is that I think that's that's kind of something entirely separate. >> Yeah, that's that's not really a focus of this bill. Um you know, it it does provide access to early stage projects um in a way that um or at least gives projects the the opportunity to you know, market their tokens early uh to the public. So in that sense um you know by uh eliminating the complete um reliance on VCs for early capital um it it helps in that direction. Um, another thing I'll point out, and this this actually is is not just in the bill, but this is in in recent guidance, but um the the recent SEC CFTC guidance on

crypto assets as well as the the Clarity bill, which it tracks pretty closely, um make it clear that as long as the tokconomics of a of a uh token are derived from the operation of the protocol um and you know, it's earning fees subject to some uh hard-coded algorithm that can only be changed um by a Dow vote, then that token can retain its uh sec its uh nonsecurity or or digital commodity status um or obtain it. So um that you know pathway to monetizing tokens or embedding um you know tok uh revenue into the into the token is something that this bill um you

know actively encourages as does the the recent guidance. Yeah. >> So I think uh I think that will be an unlock as well because there were there were concerns you know from my earlier times in in crypto that um any type of revenue sharing uh type functionality in a token um you know might make the token a security that's pretty clearly out as long as those revenues are driven by uh protocol operations and not by uh you know central management team. >> Yeah. And programming those revenue uh uh mechanisms into the protocol itself provides investors a higher degree of assurance that they will persist and sustain rather than like you said the

management team can just change their mind >> if it's programmed in. You know there is investor asurances there. governance structure was the crucial part here? Like does it say actual like DAO like DAO governance in the text? >> And is there is there some sort of like minimum threshold to the amount of involvement that a community must have? I mean recently there was I think it was on I for I don't want to misquote the the name but there was like a oneofone uh vote on a Dow that drained like 12 million or something. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Was there any sort of like sufficient level of decentralization or or participants that are required in this in this vote? Yeah. So there are there are restrictions on um the concentration of uh voting voting rights um that would you know once you cross that threshold um then the to the the the project is is not sufficiently decentralized um or in the language of the SEC CFTC guidance um I think it's uh um a functional blockchain network is the language they use. So there are um it's at this point there are there isn't clarity in terms of when um that line is crossed but it's clear that um when

there is you know uh reliance on a central uh management um team then um you're looking at more of a securities type product as opposed to a algorithmic approach to things like revenue sharing with a fallback of a DAO vote provided that that Dow is itself sufficiently decentralized um and the biggest token holders are going to end up being the VCs and the um you know the project the founders and and you know maybe early uh early team members. Um and the best practice that uh is permissible under both the legislation as well as the uh the recent guidance from SEC CFTC is uh delegating um those voting shares to a

third party. Um and so that that can be done um or or just locking up uh the voting uh power >> of of like the insiders basically, >> right? >> Um so coming coming back to to clarity here for a minute. I mean the chatter online is that this August 7th or maybe August 10th is like the deadline even though you know there's another couple years in this administration and this you know bill could theoretically still pass after the midterms. But people are are saying this August, you know, 10th, 7th because, you know, there's a there's a re recess.

What is that truly the timeline here? It's like do or die by, you know, early to mid August or is there a chance, you know, recess happens, midterms happen, and this thing, you know, goes through in 2027? >> Think the um you I said 40 50% chance. Um, I think if it if it doesn't happen by um, you know, early mid August and we're we're into the Senate recess, the next window, which is a very small window, is in the lame duck session between the November election and the swearing in of the new Congress. When the new Congress comes in, most likely Democrats will control um the House. Um,

and they're they're likely going to have another set of priorities other than this legislation. That's that's just the general expectation um from staffers and members that I speak to on both sides. So um I think those are the two windows. The the more likely one being between now and August and then the other one the lame duck. >> Yep. >> Um I I I the the next window after that is probably after the 2028 election. >> Um >> after the 2028 election >> after the 2028 election I think is is probably the next window after that.

>> Wow. And then is that deadline accurate? the 10th, the 17th. Is it just in that? Is it a hard date? Is it a soft date? >> It's a hard date. That's when um the Senate goes on on recess. >> Yep. >> Yeah. >> And then and then after that, there just won't be enough floor time between um you know, I guess it's September and uh November um to to get this bill through. >> Man, what a bull market catalyst this would be for us if we get this through in August. My goodness. >> Yeah. I mean, one one of the things I I like to point out is uh title 4 of the bill, uh specifically section uh 401, which permits banks to use digital asset technology for any function, any

financial activity that they engage in. That that in and of itself will be a huge unlock. Um while the banks could get that kind of guidance um from the banking regulators, you know, in the interim, having a statute behind that makes sure that that's future proof. So that is is going to be a huge un that in and of itself is going to be I think an enormous unlock uh that this legislation provides because banks don't like to build you know they they build on multi-year time horizons and so if if if they have any con significant concern that hey a future bank regulator may ask them to wind down their digital assets operations um that's going to increase the uh the the

risk that they assign to these new projects. involving digital assets. >> Yep. Okay. So, that is super significant uh to understand where and and how these banks are going to fit in uh and the blockchain systems that they build out which we've seen more and more of these banks build out more of their systems and their teams and hire more personnel. The other portion that I wanted to ask you about this in the case of um is stable coin yield. And so I think it was the the Zar of crypto uh David Sachs who who said hey you know when it comes to the banks they want this bill and and you know notoriously they were against this bill partly because of the stable coin yield provisions but as we

understand it now with the Genius Act stable coin yield is possible through the form of rewards. And so what happens to stable coin yield if this doesn't go through? We still have the Genius Act. Where does stable coin yield fall, pro or con, if this bill does not go through? >> Yeah, so the OC recently came out with a rulemaking um that puts restrictions on um yield offered by affiliates of stable coin issuers and uh there's now you know debate in the comment record around like well how broad is that definition of affiliate? Does it mean like literally you know commonly controlled you know in terms of like shareholder you know

control um or is it uh you know sub if there's just a contractual relationship between the third party let's say a centralized exchange and the stable coin issuer whether whether that um triggers it. So that's being actively debated at the uh you know the federal banking regulator level, the OC um right now. Um so I think you know from that particular business model perspective there's probably more room to offer those rewards without this legislation um than there would be with this legislation because what this the the um and I didn't mention this this was mentioned in a tweet I I recently posted as you know the fourth area of debate. Um the debate doesn't really seem to be that

active. Um I think it was about a month month and a half ago um the White House brought to the table um representatives from the crypto industry and the banks to come up with a compromise and the compromise that was achieved is um transactionbased rewards are permitted but um any type of uh reward that looks like a you know savings account yield um those are those are those are prohibited. So um what I'm hearing is the banks are actively trying to even get rid of that transactionbased um incentive. Um but it's really falling on deaf ears. Uh it I did not hear any traction for the

banks's position um on capital. Now, now that may be with you know the other members um and you know and I've spoken to other people in the industry they they that have met with even more members um and their staffs and they say that that argument really isn't gaining traction because the push back is well but you guys you know you you agreed to this compromise so you can't relitigate it at this point but you know they got a lot of people that need things to do and so um you know if if they can if they can nudge things in the right direction.

Uh they will. >> Yeah. S man. Um sounds like you had a great couple days there in DC and um I mean we're in the >> I'll be there tomorrow, too. Actually, I'll be on the hill tomorrow. Um >> doing a DeFi a DeFi event as well doing a demonstration of uh of DeFi for for uh staffers as well tomorrow. >> So uh yeah. >> Yeah. Well, we've got a we're in crunch time here. Um, you know, I think the whole industry really wants us to get through. Obviously, we, you know, we're a couple weeks out at this point. I'll be going to Argentina to ski for a week and a half, come back on the 9th and the 10th will be the day. So, I'm I'm either coming back to UP only or or the depths of Hades.

>> And Sal, we'd love to have you back. You know, it's definitely going to be busy back and forth from DC, but uh love to have your report there. Uh, keep us updated. >> For sure. Thanks for having me, guys. Yeah, look forward. I hope hopefully Andy you'll get a notification on your phone when you're chilling at the chalet that uh hey the bill the bill just passed. So fingers crossed man. >> Yeah. Yeah. It' be a Fox News article with your face on it. [clears throat] >> Thanks so much. >> That would be that would be funny. >> All right, buddy. Have a great day, man. Thanks so much. Y >> Honestly, that was more bullish than I expected.

I mean, probability is at uh 40 to 50% I think is higher >> than um than what markets are saying. >> Really? >> Uh title four sounds like it is flying almost entirely under the radar. >> If clarity passes, I'll vote Trump for a third term. MAGA. >> Oh man. >> Uh man, I hope they can pass clarity. Trump not going to let it fall between before midterms friends. He's a smart man. Have faith in your president. >> Prediction markets have it at 31%. Okay. Well, there it is, ladies and gentlemen. Guys, markets look good. Um, as we always say, we're going to be with you guys. Buller Bear. It looks good out there. Um, I've got the lighter CEO, Vlad, here in the back. We're going to

do a a recorded show. Um, guys, I mean, if hype can hold these levels, we look great. BTC can move up into the high 60s, we'll be good at the summer rally. We've got 10 20 days, 21 days till till clarity deadline. That could be a a massive spark for a confirming the bottom is in type of move or the failure of the passing could be the beginning of the final leg down. >> Oh boy. >> So, it's going to be a fun couple of weeks, guys. We're gonna have a great week. We we've got different institutional guests this week. We've got more charts, markets, news. Um, you know where to find us. All you guys

watching on YouTube, Hyperbeef, Knoxum, Edward, OneArm Bandit, guys, give us a like, throw us a like, throw a a subscribe, >> guys. >> You know where to find us every day. >> Have a good week. >> 12:30 p.m. Eastern here at the Rollup Buller Bear. We're going to get through this little period of transition and we're going to print 2027 2028. This show is going to have thousands of concurrent viewers. We're going to be printing seven figs years easily and it's just going to be a massive cook. So >> W's in the chat, guys.

>> W's in the chat as we close out. >> Clarity is coming. We hope so. >> It could be a major catalyst for us. Bullish news for lighter. Edwards bags are packed. That's for sure, guys. >> Appreciate you guys rocking with us. Happy Monday. Let's get it this week. Let's have a good one. >> Let's get it, Rob. Peace. >> [music]