🚨LIVE: Robinhood Chain Exploding?! CLARITY Updates! PUMP & LIT Strength! Morpho & Robinhood Join

Transcript

[music] [music] Heat. Heat. [music] >> [music] >> 17.

We'll see you around the timeline. Feels good to be back. I think [music] the rollup is one of the most premier media brands in crypto and Andy and Robbie are great experts [music] at everything they talk about and it's my favorite podcast. >> Adding to my library every day potentially multi-chain deployments. >> We are at Dev [music] Connect day one here. You guys see the face? [music] [music]

[music] Heat. [music] Heat. [music] >> [music] >> JP Morgan, Black Rock, DTCC, Fidelity,

the entire thing was just institutions. It's just it's next level. This industry is going to the next level. And guys, I I don't know what else to say. I'm bullish. >> HE SAID IT. HE FINALLY SAID IT. So bullish. It >> is bullish. I'm bullish. We're bullish. [music] Heat.

[music] [music] Heat. [music] Heat. Heat. [music] Heat. Heat. [music] [music]

>> [music] >> for rollup [music] is headed to the top. If we're not already at the top, we're going to the top. >> Roll up is my favorite. People >> from all walks of life, all over the world, all over this industry come together for the rollup. >> [music] [music] [music] [music]

>> Heat. Heat. [music] >> [music] >> Zoom out. The institutions aren't coming. [music] A rollup [music] is headed to the top.

If we're not already at the top, we're going to the top. We're going >> rollup is my favorite. >> People from all walks of life, all over the world, all over this industry come together [music] for the rollup. [music] >> [music] [music] [music] >> at the top. We're going to the top.

>> Roll up is my favorite. >> People from all walks of life, all over the world, all over this industry come together for the rollup. Heat. [music] [music] [music] [music] Hey. Hey. Hey.

[music] >> [music] >> Zoom out. The institutions aren't coming. They're simply here. It's the golden age of crypto, guys. Get right. Let's go. [music] >> Welcome to the next. See you on the show. >> [applause] >> Multicoin selling hype, but we're not scared because we're long-term bulls.

Multicoin selling hype, but we're not scared. Unstaking, selling your hype is for people who are going to buy back higher. Robert, good to see you, Robert. >> Mr. Dooker, >> how you doing there, buddy? >> Absolute pleasure. We're denominating in units of dooker out here and uh >> embarrassing. We're we're headed so much higher. I don't know. I'm just there's so many signs that I feel like I wouldn't have realized they were a sign as I would have when I it was like 2018 or 2020 or like when I was first getting in 2016. But man, the signs I'm just increasingly bullish as this goes on.

>> Um each Bitcoin looks fantastic. I saw you put the journal. Uh the other thing that gets me fired up is and again took a couple cycles to realize that this was a an indicator but maker Dow now Sky looks fantastic and we know that this is typically like the first DeFi coin to move and typically when this thing gets going this is like an indicator that everything else in DeFi and therefore Ethereum and therefore the rest of the altcoin complex just tends to outperform >> and It's pretty exciting and I'm excited.

>> GM, GM, IAB, Bitbit, NFTt world, bullish shine. Good to see everybody. Happy Wednesday from Tokenization Tower. Welcome back to the rollup. You're watching the show. It's July 22nd. Happy Wednesday. Beautiful day from Tokenization Tower, the financial capital of the world. Powered by our friends at Plume with their infrastructure products on chain for asset managers, the Nest vault product. We're here in the Nest Tower. Shout out to Salman from Flume, the chief of legal over there, who spent last week on Capitol Hill and gave us a full download on the Clarity Act moments before he said the ethics uh language was going to come out. It came out minutes before the show started today. So, we're going to

cover that uh in our news. >> Clarity's coming. I'm feeling bullish about clarity. If we get clarity through, could be a crazy bare market rally top or the catalyst to send us back to 80s. Welcome to the rollup. Morphos founders going to join the show. We're going to skip typer for today. Robin Hood's cryptog in the tower. Robin Hood chains going crazy and beef.HL is going to do a hyperlquid stats data deep dive for us. He prepared a bunch of awesome slides and so we got that. And yeah, looking good. As always, our topics are powered by our friends at Treasure. Use code rollup10 at treasure.io to grab yourself a treasure today. Hey, let's get into markets, weather, and more. 40, let me tell you

about FRA, building infrastructure, future digital money open stable borderless. Visit frack.com to learn more about their [music] F FRXUSD product and more. 79 degrees in New York. Pretty nice day, pretty chill. Not going to be too hot in the tower today, which is great news. Um, wind gusts out of the east at about 15 miles an hour. You can expect a crazy thunderstorm at some point. a Mandani political tweet or something in between every day for the next 30 days of New York summer. Get me the hell out of here. Take me straight to the mountains. Straight to the mountains of Argentina. Take me there.

Now, as always, our weather is powered by our friends at Relay. Visit relay.link to learn more about the best crosschain swaps in the space. Let's get into the markets. I know this what you want to hear about. Rob's got his takes for you. Let me tell you about dinari building infrastructure for tokenized US equities and bringing real world stocks onchain. Explore onchain access public markets. Trade on SpaceX or trade on Hyperlquid. Trading on dinari.com. >> Yeah, Rob. >> NASDAQ's flat. S&P is flat. Dow is flat. Nvidia is up two and a half% and >> dang, >> we are in just pure like something happening underneath the surface mode.

>> Sensational. >> Hadn't heard that sound of that before. >> Sensational. I mean, we're in like a threemonth uptrend. You just wouldn't realize it because we're used to like 15% daily candles. >> That's an interesting take. >> Ethereum is closing in on 2K. Um, >> by the way, we're only in a 3-week uptrend on Bitcoin. >> I mean, maybe on Bitcoin. Ethereum is up 12% over the last month with every dip. Just it looks like linear growth.

>> It looks insane, actually. >> Linear growth precedes exponential growth. Ethereum looks incredible. >> It does. >> I've been hammering this. I mean, you guys were making fun of me because of how bullish I was and still am on Ethereum. >> Yo, chill, buddy. >> It's okay. I don't mind. Um, >> guess was a very informative speaker. That was Plume. Yeah. Um, Bitcoin also 3-week uptrend. You're right. But it looks like just pure linear growth. Um, just charging, just charging along.

Yeah. >> Um, majors are leading. I think >> rolling over a bit. >> Yes, hype rolling over as well as maybe, you know, Zcash near also just not quite outperforming. But this could be the structural catch-up trade that we needed in order to preede a cyclical trend. Meaning we had like the pockets of outperformance that we we saw during the bare market. This is what we coined as the relative strength trade. Zcash near Venice all outperformed.

But Bitcoin and ETH were lagging. And typically Bitcoin and ETH have I mean obviously have the largest market cap. They also have the largest structural capital base. Yeah. Which means that it's really important for these to get going. Yeah. >> Uh to create the wealth effect for the industry and market as a whole. >> And so now we have Bitcoin and ETH and Solana for that matter. Yeah. >> Um charging just nice linear movements upwards. Um, >> yeah, we need Bitcoin to flip this level. Above 67 gets you to a really above 67K gets you to a really different picture for at least short term for at least the next couple weeks.

>> You can you can point to the TA. I I think also just something that's between fundamental and and technical here is going to be like the market psychology of this all. I think there's going to be investors, traders that are somewhat on the periphery. Maybe they're in AI or equities or they're looking elsewhere and then [snorts] before you know it, they're going to be hearing about, you know, oh, Bitcoin is that 70s and they're going to look back at the last month or two and they're going to see, wow, this thing has been just up and to the right for the last couple months, but it's been linear. It's still doesn't feel like it has like this euphoria blowoff like overbought type of structure to it, >> which I think is going to draw in more capital and just continue to build and build and build momentum. But the

feeling right now is that this is a sustainable sustainable foundation from which we can build a greater rally. >> Yep. I um I think hype is more just kind of ranging. Maybe it gets to the low 50s, high 40s, maybe. Um would be a little bit annoying, but I think it's more more just kind of ranging. Lighter looks incredible. Um lighter is holding up really great. I think this could be the kind of accumulation range for the next move. I think we get above three. And yeah, guys, as always, uh, Zama is powering our markets. Um, their confidential USDC Morpho vault has gone live, has attracted over $10 million of CVL. Check it out, guys, at Morpho. Get

yield on your stables completely, privately. Let's get into the news. Um, I have couple of more things here before we before we move off markets. >> Yeah. I don't know if you know, Andy, we were we were chatting over the last couple of days, and I I don't remember if I mentioned this over the chat, but I think it's worth mentioning, which is that, you know, every four-year cycle we have this midterm year, and that tends to be sort of the transitionary year. >> Yeah. >> And I think there's a reason for that. I think when, and I've seen this, and I'm curious if you've seen this as well, but I've seen heightened fears over the national debt in the US. And I think this is important because every midterm year I think you tend to have more of a

focus on the national debt, how this is causing this unsustainable uh money printing in the US. And then you this sort of ends up boiling into uh the inflation fears and the hyperinflation and the fiat debasement trade. >> Bitcoin bull thesis. >> And so I Yeah, exactly. the Bitcoin bull thesis, not necessarily like the risk on fintech technology, you know, like corporate, you know, low uh low interest rate environment, you know, thesis for like a broad risk on tech sentiment. But I think you do end up in a in in this space where, you know, the military is going and it's doing its thing and it just requests another trillion and a half dollars. You have senators that are pointing at how these people want so

much more money. We shouldn't vote for them. we should pe, you know, vote for the people that are a little bit more fiscally responsible. And it's just growing fears and cause for concern over the national debt. That parlays into fears around inflation that parlays into fear around currency debasement, which is obviously the largest Bitcoin bull thesis of them all. And I think this ends up building and we've seen this time and time again. We've seen this two, three, four times in the past with respect to every single cycle. This is the foundation that is laid and and it's it's the foundation that that is laid for bitcoin which ends up uh as the foundation for a greater risk on sentiment and greater market rally. So I I just I don't know if you've seen this

but I have been seeing so much more uh attention put on uh the national debt and like fiscal responsibility at least in the US and I think currency debasement is re-entering the conversation. >> Yeah. Interesting. Interesting. Well, that'll be bullish for Bitcoin. Um, and bullish for thermodynamic encrypted private money. Um, and we're going to live in the AI overlord. Good morning, OneArm Bandit ABcon on Robin Hood. I see Stone Boers cooking. I imagine that is a memecoin. Not really interested, but uh, cool.

>> I think let's keep it moving. >> Dukers. All right. Uh, let me tell you about Near, your home for discovering and using apps on chain. One account, no borders, your entire financial life all on chain. Visit near.com to learn more about that and get yourself started on Near. OpenAI and Hugface partner to address security incident during model evaluation. >> You don't know really what happened here. This was not my tweet. Open AI disclosed an unprecedented cyber incident while internal evaluation models compromise infrastructure linked to hugging face. Uh the models reportedly chained vulnerabilities including zero days stolen credentials, privilege escalation and lateral movement to break sensitive systems. Uh

the incident happened during a cyber capability benchmark with reduced refusals and deployment safeguards intentionally disabled for testing. Uh this potentially suggests that frontier models can sustain complex multi-step cyber operations and discover novel attack paths without having root access to the kind of like what actually happened or the code. So these two companies are working together. This is like China and the US coming together. As much as Chi Ping and Trump hate each other, uh, looks like patching disclosed vulnerabilities and expanding defensive access programs for frontier intelligence models as unifying the

great two nations of the world. So interesting. I was actually at the Circle office and speaking to some folks there and you know Circle and Coinbase got exposure to um Mythos or whatever it was couple weeks before it went live and had like had a chance to harden their defense. And from what I understand, it was a terrifying experience to have Mythos in your hand before it goes live, running it on all your protocols and seeing all of what's happening and where all the little patches need to be made. I understand it was like an intense

intense experience for uh a lot of the companies that got them because they were caught way off guard and yeah I am going to take the opposite approach um on this open AI hugging face debacle. I think good Alexander had the best tweet about this. He said, "Every time open AI or Anthropic get brutally mogged by an open-source model launch, within 24 hours, there is always a report about how the AI escaped containment. So tiresome, so transparent." So I think that's what's happening here. I think Kimmy K3 came out >> and mogged anthropic and open AI despite >> wow

>> Kimmy K3 being distilled from Anthropic Fable 5. um mogged it anyway because it is now open source and open weight. Um but that is what it's happening and so now massive security debacle because we can't trust AI let alone opensource uncontained unregulated AI. We must regulate these openweight Chinese models for our safety and protection. We must regulate these models because they can able to escape their containment and cost our business major issues.

>> So, of course, we need to regulate these and create a regulatory moat for the frontier model companies. Of course, this needs to happen for our safety and our protection. All right, let's keep it rolling. Um, Coin Bureau says the S&P just launched its first ever crypto index and Bitcoin isn't in it. CEO Kathy Clay of S&P who clearly read Andy's which is mine. Uh re revenue meta tweet says Bitcoin was excluded because it's really not one of those revenue generating protocols. And I think there was an end of the quote that says and this penguin on Twitter called revenue meta 18 months ago. And I really I really vibe with it. Let's see what she says about the revenue meta here.

And I think it's hilarious that Tron is in this as well. watch >> just five are Ether, Binancecoin, Salana, Tron and Hyperlid. So what are the requirements? How much turnover? >> Either Binancecoin, Salana, Hyper%. >> Yeah. So let's just admit that digital assets moves faster than uh equity assets for example. But what we're trying to bring are the same sort of principles that we have in our equity indices into digital assets. So when you think about uh the seasoning period, the revenue generation, the listing requirement, the liquidity behind these different protocols for these tokens,

these are the things that we think matter for serious investors and asset managers in the digital asset space. And so we think because there's this likeness between what we deliver in equity indices and into this new benchmark for digital assets, we think it'll make sense uh for the investing uh public. >> But Bitcoin's not in here. Bitcoin is not in there because it's really not one of those revenue generating protocols that we think belongs in this index. It meets all of the criteria which there are many in order for inclusion in this index.

>> Hey Alex, good to see you. >> Ethereum shouldn't really belong in there either if they're just they're just looking at revenue generating. I'm bullish ETH but I don't think ETH is really considered a revenue generating platform. And we all saw Lorenzo's tweet from Arc Invest. They're getting about like one and a half percent of the fees generated from Robin Hood. Robin Hood takes like 85% market share uh or revenue share. Arbitum takes 10% and ETH is there at like less than five. I think closer to one and a half.

>> What do you say, Rob? >> Um I'd say ETH doesn't really belong in there. I think they're just arbitrarily picking tokens that they think are going to do well. And if they really wanted to do a revenue generating index, I would do hype, I would do lighter, I would do pump fun, I would do uh derive, I would do cards collector crypto, and I would do >> aeradrome. That's what I would put into this revenue generating. >> XRP, uh, Tron and, uh, Binancecoin. >> No, no, I would put those in another index. And what would you call that one?

>> What would you guys call the XRP Tron XLM index? Tell us in the chat. What is the Tronard Ripple Cardano index? >> If new types in here, he's going to get pissed. >> All right, guys. Let's keep it rolling. Um, let me tell you about 1 in, your secure, efficient platform for tokenized rwas. Whatever asset you're buying, swap it at 1in.com. 13 chains without bridging. 1inch.com. ETH, the unlimited money machine. Learn fast and stack faster. Too many ETH boomers are on Wall Street, especially now that Tommy has brainwashed everyone into supporting his bags. Hashtag blockchain not Bitcoin. Good to see you, new type. Glad you're back. I don't know where freedom guy is, but I wish he was

here to dog you on uh his Cardano thesis. Uh Coinbase CEO says Brian Armstrong has issued a warning saying the status quo without the Clarity Act is not going to work. Quote unquote. If if clarity does not happen, we're going to be back to building our company offshore. The Clarity Act must build must pass now. Let's hear what the bald man has to say about the Clarity Act. The bald man has a lot of good takes. >> Our path to get Democrats to Yes. >> Yes. Uh the Clarity Act is at the one yard line and it's reflects the the work from both sides of the aisle spending thousands of hours along with their staff to get a true bipartisan compromise. This bill would strengthen power for law enforcement. It would bring new consumer protections and you have to remember the status quo is that

we don't have any federal laws protecting consumers or helping this industry get built in the United States. So the the status quo is not going to work. This bill is a dramatic benefit for the United States of America and it's time to get it over the finish line. >> And I know that right now is kind of crunch time. If it can't get done in the next few weeks before senators go on their big August recess, what is that going to mean for the crypto industry if the bill can't cross the finish line this year? >> Yeah. Well, like I said, I'm pretty optimistic it's going to get done. I it's hard for me to imagine somebody not wanting to vote for it at this point because of all the good work that's been done. It's it's much better than the status quo. But in the event that it

didn't happen, I mean, we have a very friendly set of regulators and administration that we're working with currently in the crypto industry. We would go back to building our company. I mean, we would be doing it here in the United States. We'd be doing some of it offshore where there is clear rules. Uh but we frankly we'd have a slightly more permissive environment under the current regulators. But we at Coinbase believe that we should actually get clear statute which allows companies to come invest with certainty for the long term through many different administrations. That's what's going to allow America to win and to protect consumers here. >> You hear you hear what he's telling? He's he's speaking directly to Democrats. He's saying, "Look, this SEC and the CFDC are giving us total freedom here. We can basically act guns do whatever we want. Guns ablazing for the

next four years. If you guys really want to c comm codify something that is like a little bit more, you know, set in stone with some more guard rails and you the Democrats, you want this to go through. Trump doesn't care. The SEC, CFTC doesn't care. Tron, Cardano, XLM, XRP, all lararsps. Oh yeah, he he sees it. He gets it. Yep.

Yeah, that looks sounds a lot like the N7 index there. um I can hear you just fine. But what um what I was going to mention about the previous thing is that the prediction markets are now under uh they're pricing

in 39% chance. that the clarity act goes through. Uh so the the language around ethics came out this morning and actually uh traders are just dumping uh the probability. So even though the language came out, prediction markets are down um on this news. As for movement labs, uh movement labs fire files for bankruptcy chapter 11. uh they raised a total of $141 million uh from some of the more prominent uh VCs in the space. Uh they are now f filing for chapter 11 bankruptcy. They're down 99%.

Its token has an FDV of 100 million. They raised 141 million. I remember I think the round was in the billions. I think they raised maybe between like one and three billion uh in some of the later rounds. And now their token is trading around uh this 100 million mark FDV and they're filing for bankruptcy. Um I think we have more movement tweets later on. So why don't we just continue with our next tweet because this is a developing story.

So we are seeing this play out in real time and uh yeah we are we are just understanding what is happening here and uh movement and he's talking to me behind the scenes. I don't know what he wants me to say about chapter movement labs filing for chapter 11. I mean these guys were opponents of modular. Uh so what does this mean? Modular wins because movement goes chapter 11 bankrupt. What happens to all the investors? I mean, they got their tokens. Is it effectively like they got what they paid for? I don't know. R I mean, Rushi also has this new venture. Like, what what this is this is just CT drama to the max. There's plenty of zeros out there. There are still some

teams that are building. They're down, you know, 80 90% from highs. Bar chain and the likes are included in that, but at least those guys are still building. They're still alive. They're still here. >> Move Industries is led by Tab now. But whether or not that really, you know, translates into anything, we'll see. So, just wanted to cover this. Let's move on into our next piece and get Paul from Moro up. Before we do, let me tell you about Lei building infrastructure crossing economy universal market access for digital assets. Visit lee.i to learn more. And yeah, I mean, we're going to get Paul up

from Morpho. Um, Vault Summit Singapore is coming up. We got the um kind of vaultification of this entire like, you know, setup here. You've got tons of people wanting to uh get involved in vaults. So, yeah, the beef says, "What do Dems What do Dems want? local prosecutors to be able to charge the president with some violations. DOJ is fine and Dems likely will control DOJ by next election.

What's your take on that? >> Well, let's see. I mean, Dems want local prosecutors to be able to charge the president with some violations. I I think I saw in the ethics language that Trump and other like the vice president, Melania, >> Vance's wife, like everyone who's like included in that like very covered group would have to sell their crypto >> really. >> Which is why before the show started, I mentioned that I think if I mean maybe they don't have to sell on the open market, but they have to like put it in a trust that they don't control. So that would shake some things up. I mean, you know, I this is just I think this is generally good

>> generally good to be honest with you. Yeah. I mean, there's part part of this I think there's a libertarian point of view that says like look, people should be able to do what they want, but the libertarians would also say that the government's too big anyway and these people shouldn't have like the ability to like really have that much power, right? And so is this kind of a a stepping stone to a world where uh those who are making the laws and have political power are in a position to trade less, invest less, have less uh influence and power over our markets, which I think probably makes the markets more fair. Like this ultimately becomes a question of like should congress people trade stocks?

I mean, in my opinion, like we don't want to like cut off their ability to like, you know, have financial freedom and invest, but like should they be trading levered pharmaceutical stocks? >> Yeah. >> Like when there's an FDA approval like next week, probably not. Maybe they should just be limited to like pretty broad index funds without at least like, you know, several dozen assets in those indices. >> Um because the same logic >> appers have to do like my like my buddy works at Blackstone. He can he cannot invest in single names. You can only invest in ETFs. Uh Bibb says they need to put in blind trust.

>> Exactly. Um >> all right guys, we got Paul from Moro, the CEO, Paul Frambble. Um he's in the back. He's coming on. They just announced their midnight launch, uh which is their fixed rate, fixedterm lending product. They've also generated a ton of fees in the last 24 hours, uh, surpassing a couple of the notable fundamental protocols, or at least I saw a DeFi llama screenshot that's suggested that, but Paul's facial reaction maybe in the back room suggests otherwise. Um, but we're going to get Paul up either way and we're going to talk about the vultification of this industry, in this institutional push that they've had. Uh, last I spoke to Paul, we were on stage in Khan, uh, with the Apollo woman, whom I'm forgetting her name. Um, but she was great. Christine, she was fantastic. Um,

and we really just talked about the scale of the opportunity here of new markets on chain. Let's get Paul up and get the show on the road. >> Paul, good to have you, man. >> Paul, welcome to the show. >> Hey, thanks for having me, guys. >> Good to see you, buddy. Um, big launch for midnight, big big months for Morpho and the vault complex awareness as a concept. I feel like we we kind of call it as part of our big four. We got stable coins, tokenization, pers, and vaults. These are kind of exports of this industry that you know from the investor perspective, it seems like investing in these trends is like a multi-deade or at least a decade long kind of mega trend. Uh there's a lot of opportunity for investors and then a lot

of entrepreneurs coming, you know, kind of coming in. Maybe just to start, Paul, give us kind of your lay of the land of these mega trends and, you know, perhaps a bit more focused on vaults and just generally what your current mental model is for uh why this is catching on right now and kind of what these exports are doing for the industry. >> Sure. I think you know in general [clears throat] the the realization of the last year or even last six months as an industry is that crypto really isn't anymore here as a speculation product but more as infrastructure. like everybody we we really made this switch from product to infrastructure for for everybody whether that's us as builders but also fintex transfa institutions

etc. Now it's like widely understood that you know moving to an open financial system on open rails is inevitable. It will happen. It will happen on blockchains. And in order to make this happen you have a few primitives to your point. Um stable coins being you know the money the payments money many movements when transfers uh in general and then with this [clears throat] you have uh credit and vaults in in in general. And you know, I like to think of vaults as just a way to package credit into a simple and usable form, but the true underlying primitive is really financing and and how do you have like onchain financing financing markets? You know, what we've noticed over the last few months is that the the market for crypto native loans

is great. It's like a $50 billion market, but it's still very small compared to the entirety of credit. and and there is a lot of appetite for those people that are not here for the crypto speculation aspect of things but are just here to upgrade their financial infrastructure that okay how do I unlock the $200 trillion market of credit and how do I bring it on chain and so that's like the you know for us what I see as the biggest and most interesting opportunity and is also the reason why we launched uh midnight is to start to address this this market >> very cool obviously I mean the credit market as a whole is just absolutely massive we're talking trillions and trill millions of dollars. There's tons of innovations that are bringing institutions into the space and unlocking a lot of the capital

efficiency that bringing this onchain provides. Just curious, I mean, you guys have onboarded some of the biggest institutions in the space. I love the Morpho integration with Coinbase. It's kind of deacto neoank uh lending uh that I like to use. Um just curious about your experience working with some of these institutions with with Coinbase. you know, there's obviously integrations that kind of span far and wide, recent ones, you know, with other uh financial uh institutions. Just curious, what has that experience been like, you know, bringing them into the onchain space? Why now? What have you done to help bring them in and kind of help them understand the opportunity at stake here?

>> Yeah, I I guess we like to divide the type of institutions in two. You have the distributors and you have the operators. So the distributors are the fintexs of the world, the exchanges of the world that have a large consumer audience and want to offer those financial products that are on chain and and and because they're better and more more more accessible. So that's the case of Coinbase, of Robin Hood, of deal of like all those different partners that we we we help you know power earn services or loan services directly on chain. You know the reason [clears throat] they they came on chain in the first place is for one very simple reason is the interest rate is so much better on chain right and the reason the interest rate is so much better on chain is it's an open infrastructure so competition is much

more fierce you get access to global capital you know let coinbase lets you borrow on the back of your bitcoin and then on the other side of the book like on on the morpho protocol you have literally tens of thousands of lenders coming from all over the world that are here to compete to provide you the best poss possible rate. This is not something that exists in TRFI today, right? And so this is why those those fintexs and those like exchanges those distribution platforms are interested is because the pricing is better the liquidity is better and also because the system is all open. It's super easy to integrate like if you have a self-custodial wallet now whether you have it in house like Coinbase or you use a preview like like the Robin Hoods of the world like you can just in one

click get access to if you if your user has a self-custodial wallet embedded you have access to all the powers of the chain and because everything is standardized everything is open source it's like super easy for your developers to integrate and that's like you know the second benefit uh for for for those institutions and then the operators of the market are like more the the traditional finance guys like the people that are going to you know develop those financial product offering. This is more a more nent set of institutional but with you know over the last six months we've seen like unprecedented like you know interest and and and builds from those large financial institutions and we can talk more about that.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Let me I want to set the stage here for the next question which is that you know you guys have already gotten you know hundreds of millions of dollars in deposits probably upwards of billions of dollars but within specific integrations I have here like hund00 million in Robin Hood earn uh that's curated by stakehouse finance um you guys have obviously you know morphol blue integration with Coinbase like these are massive massive integrations that you have um but obviously the market is not satisfied uh you know the the idea of an open credit market is that you know you uh bring the world's credit on chain.

Now with Morpho Midnight, right, these are mostly fixedterm loans and and and fixed rates. And so I'm curious who was asking for this? Like who is the next nut to crack? What is the next market segment that you're looking to onboard right after you get, you know, somewhat of the crypto adjacent Coinbase? You got the Robin Hoods, which also somewhat crypto adjacent. you guys, you now have these people and these companies onboarded and hundreds of millions of dollars in deposits into these integrations. What is the next market segment that you're looking to obtain and why is Midnight specifically tailored at onboarding those companies and those audiences?

>> It's a great question. So, we mentioned this big number of $200 trillion, you know, credit market. Obviously, there's a lot of subdivisions inside this market. You have government bonds for example which is like approximately hundred trillion dollars. You have like securities lending like mortgages like loans secured by some card receivables like uh consumer loans. You have a very wide range of loans that we could go after as Moro and decide to build infrastructure for but in an open way on the blockchain to unlock you know better accessibility, better interest rate as we were discussing.

I [clears throat] think in order to access those and unlock some of those um uh pockets of of of of credit um it was very clear to us that a new zero to one was needed like you actually needed to change like a lot of things and it was not going to be with like 10% improvement on each each version of morpho that we were going to unlock those ambitious like you know milestones and I think you know after chatting with pretty much every large like financial institution in the world and you know large you know fintech that are distributing those products. The first number one thing that was that was clear is that they want control, right? They want control over the rate, over the risk, over the compliance, over the

fees, and they don't want, you know, a bunch of crypto natives to like manage the product. Like some of them are like multi- trillion dollars asset managers. They know how to manage capital, right? Like they don't need us to be frank. What they don't know though is how do you build safe smart contract that is going to connect them globally to global sources of capital right and interconnect everybody this is the opportunity for them it's an infrastructure opportunity to to upgrade and so concretely today up up until today if you want to build like if you're like a large asset manager and you have your your team in charge of building portfolio those guys like want to control their risk but they don't want to control the risk without controlling the rate for example so when

issue different types of loans. It's less so about, you know, providing predictability. It's more so about control. And this is maybe the least understood thing about like more for strategy overall. Like obviously we're going to provide fixed rate which is going to provide like, you know, certainty for consumers, right? The number one feedback that we get from large scale consumer lending products is that people want certainty, right? So that's going to be useful and that's great. Midnight is going to unlock that. But above everything now if you're a curator in moral you can not only say what you trust but you can also say at what price right whereas up until today it was a formula telling you hey here is you what you can trust but you know you don't choose the interest rate the interest rate is the the formula that morpher provided etc and that was very

limiting for them because they could not express their intent clearly and as a result there's a bunch of loans they could not underwrite now that you have the ability to give the theoretically you can underwrite anything like you know I I I trust the the rollup so I could you know with just this information without collateral I could give it a price right if if it's a formula if I don't control the formula it's not really reasonable for me to do it but if you know I trust your reputation then maybe I'll give it like I don't know 15%. And because it's a competitive market maybe a curator will give you 13 or 12 etc. But in order for those like under collateralized loans to be unlocked, you need control on the rate. You need fixed rate fixed term.

That's like a necessity. Uh and that's the zero to one we need in order to unlock all the rest. Midnight as we launch this is very burbone protocol. It's a very simple protocol. But around it, we're going to have a bunch of modules, a bunch of gates, a bunch of callbacks that are going to be built in order to unlock those diverse pots of of credit that we've been we've been mentioning. So under collaterolateralized loans on chain have been very elusive for a very long time. There's been several protocols that have attempted it. No one has been able to get it to stick on chain at sign significant scale. You're saying that now because of the customizations with Morpho Midnight under collolateralized lending on chain is possible.

>> Yes. And I want to be clear, we're not going to start with this. This is not the focus for Moro at the moment right now to develop under collateralized loans. But I think the key realization that we've had and you know for now 8 years now people have been asking oh under collateralized loan in D5 would be great. How can you your decentralized protocol achieve under collateralized loans? And it seemed impossible and and the reason is it is impossible. You can't expect a decentralized protocol to underwrite like credit for people. However, this is not what Morpho is here for. Morpho externalizes the risk management. We have this network of curators that maybe one day they're credit fans, right? And the only thing that we're going to do is we're going to let borrowers express why they should be trusted and connect them with lenders,

with curators that are, you know, believing in them and giving them a price. And we're basically running the connection and this quote unquote auction for them to get financing, right? And that can be collateral, but that could also be no collateral and that could just be identity or a legal contract or whatever. So the the midnight structure basically as soon as you give the ability to price the loan you are able to underwrite pretty much anything including under collateralized loans. Now I want to be clear I we are starting with overcolateralized loans with you know bitcoin over collateralized loans on base. It's like very we're starting very simple with midnight very conservative and there's immense opportunity to expand over the

coming months. Uh but we're starting very simple. Yeah, and I think Paul part of that uh simplistic start is kind of what the current user base wants, what the you know onchain natives or kind of institutional scale high net worths, what what they want. But then I remember in con we were speaking about this kind of like more esoteric plan or you know kind of optionality that Morpho has where anything from like an aviation lease to like a real estate market to like a venture saft or something can be provided as uh like collateral or you know uh used in these vaults and like you said as long as you have somebody who's willing to underwrite the risk in midnight with a fixed rate and they can

control that rate than you know the options you know drastically increase for the types of you know assets and so I think you know just curious how you think about that potentially playing out in the same sense we saw you know tokenized deposits and stable coins be kind of like the first thing to be tokenized like oh let's take a dollar and put it on chain you know breakthrough and now we're you know very much deep into the tokenized equities complex and we're seeing those trade on Robin Hood chain we're seeing those you know potentially start to be collateral in places like lighter uh for per so we're starting to get into that market now. How do you think about the evolution of um midnight and morpho is similar to where you know you start with kind of like like the basic stuff and

you move down the risk curve or down the you know esoteric curve for lack of a better term. How do you think about how this product might play out? So I think the first thing is we truly want a slow start, right? Like I think for beyond like strategic and market reasons is purely like this those past six months have been rough for D5 from a security perspective like you know whether that's AI or or North Korea it's been like you know a lot of lot of different hacks and you know Morpho is probably one of if not the most reputable like firm in terms of like smart contract security and quality of code and and and infrastructure. We want to continue that way. We spent two years to ship midnight right. So we we we don't want to it

up. We really want to take the time on board users, get them to understand uh what this is all about in order for them to confidently engage. So that's step one and that's going to take multiple months like you know um and one thing that we could do theoretically right now is that the vault of morpho they can allocate to midnight already like it's just a switch for the DAO to approve and now they can allocate to midnight and you have multiple billions right so you could have we could have done an explosive launch and just allocate billions to midnight but we don't want anything to explode right so that's that's the reason why it was uh not decided to do that but it at some points as we build you know Lindy and people start to understand and liquidity start

to form then we can start to enable the switch and then the liquidity of vaults will be able to be allocated by curators to the different markets and they will be able to to to play around and build like real depth etc. Then we start with you know fewer markets the blue chip collateral and then over time as we you know like curators quote they're going to quote much more and more bespoke and and and interesting collateral. One of the interesting things about Midnight is that it gives you such a breadth of modularity when it comes to customization of what you want to put as the trust assumption whether that is collateral or no collateral. So you could do portfolio as collateral loans with like you know a hundred of different collateral accepted right and

the curator can give it a price. So you could take the list of all the coin gecko assets and say hey like any of those assets that if you have them as collateral under a certain LLTV I'll give you a loan. Right? So that's enormous unlock for fintex right if they want to do portfolio as collateral for example into into into their app but most importantly now we have gates in morpho so if you have products that are only accessible to accredited investors you can very quickly um you know basically enforce that in at the protocol level and the beauty of it is that it's not isolating liquidity like it would in like the old version of defi or in morphol blue even where each market is separate and if you KYC one market, it can't share any liquidity.

Now, we're in an intent model, meaning that you can as a curator promise your liquidity into multiple isolated markets at the same time. And your 100 bucks that you're committing in one market, you can also commit that same 100 buck into dozens of other markets, right? Whether that's markets that require KYC, no KYC, etc. So, we really did a lot of work thinking about in this world that's going to be modular. How do we limit liquidity fragmentation? How do we foster capital formation, network effects, etc. And I think Mina has been built for this.

>> Yeah. And so, Paul, I I understand the slow approach here and the methodical roll out as well as the way that you're thinking about uh kind of executing on the more uh higher risk, higher reward type of strategies or opportunities for curators. I suppose the one question about the incentive uh dynamic here for your business is you know the way that Morpho grows is is going to be more TVL more user deposits more AUM into vaults and then also kind of a facet of that is going to be uh more uh as I've said now esoteric vaults or more let's just call them more risky vaults and so I guess how do you balance the dynamic of

growing Morpho into a multi-undred billion ion dollar AUM protocol with the incentive potential misalignment of more risk, more vaults, more yields, more degenerate farming strategies, less risk management and kind of like that being the way to grow. >> More food needs uh higher risk to grow. like the biggest pockets of capital today, the 100 trillion dollars of the 200 trillion is government bonds which are the most borrowing uh you know types of credit right so it's not about you know the the what the problem that DeFi has is not a risk problem it's a demand problem there's no borrowing demand right and so what this pushed people to

do you know is to list like you know more risky cryptonative assets which had not a good riskreward payoff right and we saw this with scalp and and a we saw this in multiple morpho vaults that were more willing to take risks uh as well. And and I think this this is the problem. What what midnight enables is to enable demand and origination that are completely well riskadjusted but that were not possible on chain before. Like we are enabling new markets that you know will let people borrow in a way that were not even imaginable before.

And that does not mean more risk that just means more demand uh for a risk level that that remains reasonable. >> Yep. Understood. And then Paul, I mean, I guess on this note when you're thinking about the growth here and you know, managing this business, um, talk to us about uh the the dynamics of the Morpho asset, not with regards to directional, but I is owning the Morpho token equivalent to owning uh equity in Morpho? Are they just one in one and one and the only? There's no like labs or like I'm sure there's some you know legal stuff here but is it is it effectively onetoone from an economic uh perspective? How how does that work from the token side?

>> Mara does not have any traditional equity. We're a nonprofit you know foundation based you know registered in France which has um equityless like subsidiaries uh in the US. Um and and the only asset of the morpho network is the morpho token. And the morpho token is a very simple construct. It just owns the network. And the only thing that it can do is basically it controls the treasury and the fee switch, right? And so [clears throat] all the value that is created by the decentralized network is owned by the token holder. So if you own the token, you own a share of the network, right? It's as simple as that.

and and then you get to decide what to do with the economic value, right? And if you're, you know, most likely if you're if you're if you're rational and you do believe that, you know, DeFi is going to take over the $200 trillion market, then the one thing you will do is to reinvest in growth, right? Any, you know, at least that's my perspective is like I don't see any value in like distributing like peanuts dividend every year of like 2 3%. While the market is like 10,000x what the current size we are today, like the only economically rational thing to do today h is to basically reinvest everything into growth. Like grow the team, grow like the the amount of of distribution that we have and and deals that we have in order to, you know, get closer to that $200 trillion mark because this is

really where where the actual value creation is going to happen, right? If if crypto is deemed to remain like financial products for crypton native people like this is great but also like not that interesting. Frankly, I would not be working in this industry otherwise like if I did not believe that this was going to empower the entirety of the financial system. That's the thing we should be looking at. >> And so that would be your kind of uh re rebuttal to the morpho is a great protocol has massive potential but the token uh economics don't align with the upside for holders. Well, my my my counterbalance to that is that anyone distributing and that's a hot take, right? Is like anyone distributing fees to token owners right now is extremely bearish about their potential. Like it's

basically means you're fulfilled your mission and you're just not ambitious enough. If you're truly ambitious about like transforming the financial system, then just go hire like a 100 people and go for it. Like we have an entire market to capture, right? And this is what this you know this this industry is about, right? Now, if you don't know what to do with the money and you just, you know, distribute 5%, then yes, fine. 5% is a great APY, but it's much less interesting than 100x, right? So, that's like the the my mental model for for value and token in this ecosystem. >> Yeah. And I think it's funny because I think the pendulum has swung so far to like I mean just hyperlquid 99% buybacks make a bunch of money buy back the token revenue like what and I think as the bull kind of I feel like we're in this

kind of transitory phase with the market and so I think as the as the bull comes back that pendulum probably swings back a bit more into like the neutral side of like well look guys we don't need to be buying back all of our tokens like it you know there is some value in like the speculative growth of these of these protocols and your thesis this people think that it makes less sense in the bare market because they want to have this kind of higher floor um setup but in a sense the what you're saying is that that economic strategy of consistent dividend or buyback also kind of sets a lower ceiling. Is that right?

>> If you spend hundred millions of dollars on buybacks like what if you spend this on your team, right? like and what if you spend this on product and building and growing and like we're so small like I think this is like I mean this is maybe where I disagree with some of those projects is like I truly want to transform the financial system and it's not just the crypto natives like the entirety of it this like multiple hundreds of trillions of dollars like I need the money like and and to go after this right and and and and I'm not going to throw it away right now just for 5% I I want this thing to 100x to 1,000x right and it depend it's really just a goal and expectation thing like morph is playing the long-term ambitious game and we're not playing the short-term game,

right? Basically, and if you're playing that long-term strategy that is very ambitious, I don't think it's rationally, you know, it's not rational economically [clears throat] to distribute, you know, but again, that's my perspective. You know, I own a lot of tokens, but not, you know, I don't decide on everything on this. I have a a perspective and, you know, maybe token decide differently, but but I'm very, you know, that's a strong opinion of mine. >> Yeah. Yeah. And then Paul, um, kind of flipping gears off the Morpho token into the business model of some of of the vault kind of complex from your purview with curators. Um, not asking you to like pick favorites or tell us who's doing well necessarily, but kind of curious just like what the state of the curator complex is. Like, you know, I

know steakhouse is dominating in terms of AUM, uh, Gauntlet as well. Um, and so like what are those guys doing right? Uh, what are the strategies that have been working? How are they making money? Are they making a good bit of money? Like just kind of give us a little bit of insight from your perspective as to what some of the leading curators are doing well, how their business is evolving as you guys are evolving and kind of what those relationships look like. >> Yeah. So I think it's pretty clear that so-called curation is going to be the future of you know asset management in one way or another. Um and today it's very different. It's non-custodial etc.

But this is like the very clear trend. I think today the way the the the curation space has evolved is that we started with very few curators like two three at the time it was a big bet that some some companies like steakhouse took on on morpho by like starting starting this business and then it became very trendy a lot of people came in and now we're seeing the opposite like a contraction of the market where only like the best curators have have survived like and I say this objectively like looking at the data etc. So we have a concentration around like approximately five, six, seven different curators uh that are are are have been doing an an amazing job on the cryptonative side. So that's on the cryptonative side and then what we're

seeing is obviously the more institutional players that look at this and say oh actually it makes sense and not only it makes sense but I think the category is going to grow a lot because this is the future of asset management. And so if you look at like the winter mutes of the world, the galaxies of the world, the bitwise of the world, those are like the newer curators that come from much more institutional background uh that are coming in and and and developing this new business line because they have the belief that this category is going to grow immensely, which it which it will. I think right now, if I'm being a critic of the situation, I think the the problem that they have is that there's not so much demand, right? like on the borrow side it's like like there's only so few

things you can underwrite for two reasons is the infrastructure is limiting more for blue is very limiting like you know you can only do over collateralized open term variable rate that's like that's great but that's not like enough they're limited by the tokenization like there's a lot of of of loans we'd like to do but you know this is just not the token is not on chain yet a lot of collateral would like to bring but the pricing is not accurate or the liquidity is not good etc but this is coming. But so this is coming and with midnight coming, there's also a new types of loan structure that will will we will, you know, allow them to build better products, better vaults because there is a better demand side coming in.

>> Yeah. And and then Paul, just real quick follow up and I'm sure Rob's got a bunch. Um so is this like a Gauntlet stakehouse 56 others, you know, just looking on Blockworks data, they just launched their new vaults thing. Um you know, there's dominant players there and these are cryptonative. Is this like a Bitwise Galaxy or like expanding the market and bringing in new AUM and competing with the existing curators or is this like a competition pool for a specific kind of sector of vaults that's happening with these existing players and then a separate competition pool um in this industry right now and we see it in media for example you know previously

you know you put your announcement on coin desk or on the rollup or on bank list or on you know the defiant now it's like people are going down south here and just going straight to phiy and going to the New York stock exchange so in a similar sense is it like are we seeing competition from bitwise and galaxy and you know Apollo ver now you know kind of fighting for a pie that crypton native curators are currently uh you know have their control over or is it kind of separate pies like how do you think about the competitive nature and the pools of competition w with the curators.

>> Yeah. So, it's a great question. I think there's a little bit of both. Like the aspiration is that those new institutional curators will definitely expand the market in two ways. They expand it because they're more trusted in the eyes of distributors. Like if you're a big brand like Galaxy or Wintermut or Bitwise, you have you bring some new credibility or you bring your own portfolio of clients that you know expand the market for more for sure, right? [clears throat] But then at the same time, there's also leads where they compete, right? you know I I can't get into like confidential conversation I've seen but like there's a few fintexs where as they were selecting the curators it was extremely competitive right between between between curators and and so I I'd say there is a bit of both like I think today we as moro I

have to acknowledge we are the limiting factor for the expansion of the market because we have some barring demand some origination demand because at the end of the day the origination demand is what's going to make the differentiation of the vault but The reality is that without midnight, we could not serve that demand. We did not have the plumby for the borrowers to come in and and borrow and and this is our responsibility and we've been frankly we've been the limiting factor for more than nine months now I feel like and we're late for Morph for Midnight more than nine months on our timeline. We we were supposed to launch like nine months ago.

>> Uh but um but but yeah. >> Okay. Interesting. Yeah. Um, Paul, I I've got something here because this came over the wire just a couple hours ago. And I know people are, you know, also having the the conversation on on Twitter right now about, you know, vaults expanding, trying to get more AUM, trying to offer more yields to attract depositors. But I think you make a great point about the risk adjusted return. Like you try to go get more yield, you're going to take on more risk. But there is plenty of demand for a nice solid, you know, tokenized credit fund, right? we have the likes of Apollo and Janice Henderson and all these guys that are coming in and they're offering some really really great riskadjusted uh yields. Um the SEC commissioner Hester Purse earlier today,

just a couple hours ago, I'll just read this word for word, warned crypto vault and onchain lending builders against structuring products to evade securities laws, stating they risk a painful fall. Vaults may trigger how we test common enterprise rules or investment company status. Loans could qualify as securities notes. And so given that you know now we are getting these tokenized funds on they're providing some you know really tremendous riskadjusted returns. How do you navigate the regulatory landscape? Is this a is this regulatory burden something that falls on Morpho as the technology company or does it fall on the curators to enforce KYC and enforce other securities laws?

>> It's a great question. So I think first I should I should mention that I'm currently in Washington DC for the week as I'm as I'm doing this live stream for for for for a reason. Um I think in general few things is like so obviously uh something Moro should should be you know extremely uh careful about right to make sure that the builders even though you know at the end of the day the curators are running the vault and and they're structuring it. uh we need to make sure they have the proper tools in order to comply right. Uh and so we also need to make sure that the morpho stack in itself you know allows them to you know either build like a fully decentralized non-custodial vault or in the case that you know the vault you know becomes a security then give them

the necessary tooling to register if that was to be the case. Uh so this is how we see our responsibilities like an enabler to comply may they need to comply for the given you know product that they're they're willing to do. Okay. And so does this look like segmented instances? Um for instance uh like how do you balance the capital efficiency benefits of pooling all the liquidity uh for a vault versus like having the segmented liquidity model? Obviously the vaults currently are not co-mingled. But when it comes to specific products, you know, you might have to segment liquidity even within certain products. How do you navigate this? Is it just about providing the ultimate amount of flexibility and customizability to your to your vault

curators as a technology company? How do you do this? And and you know, how do you balance regulatory with capital efficiency? >> Yeah, it's it's a great question. I mean, I I should say that one of the goal of the SEC is to provide capital efficiency. Like it's about protecting investors and maximizing uh uh capital efficiency at the same time, right? And so so one does not necessarily go against the other, right? We see you know our role as enablers and in some capacity morphos infrastructure we kind of have the same goal right like we want to have you know maximum capital efficiency and at the same time we want to make sure that uh investors are able to be protected for a given risk profile that they're willing to take right and a given risk that they're consciously willing willing to take and so what does

that mean concretely to enable curators with a stack that allows them to comply we call this like programmable compliance in Moro but basically vaults now have gates right So if you want to blacklist user according to like you know a set of arbitrary parameters you can or if you want to whitelist users you also can right and it can be a set you know it could be a list it could be a function it could be a smart contract call uh and it's it's very programmable in itself but also we have to be clear like you know vaults does not mean really anything today like you can have you know vaults with like very active management with very high level of discretion uh that invests in a basket of securities Well, in that case, yeah, it's probably very hard and you know,

I'm not a lawyer, but but it's probably very hard to justify that this is not a security, right? And then you have vaults that are fully decentralized that are running on immutable code where the curator has no capacity within the limits of the time lock to take control of the funds and they can only operate within a very confined and constrained environment. Well, in that case, maybe it is not right. So what I'm trying to say is that there is a full spectrum and and you know we we are engaging with with regulators to understand you know where where are the the limits and and in any case we'll be you know providing the curators with the tools for them to comply may they need to >> and uh you're there in DC right now doing this show from from Washington DC what do I mean clarity

you think go through what are you what are you hearing on the ground there in I see. >> Um I'm I'm hearing a lot of things. I'm hearing a lot of things. Uh it's it's funny because I think the the momentum seems to be slightly a bit more slightly bearish than it used to like a few weeks ago, but it keeps changing every two days now depending on like the latest. I don't even know if we have the latest draft uh yet or not, but but but yeah, I'd be cautious about like sharing anything. I don't personally don't have a perspective. I you know it's very hard for me to figure out like it's it's looks like it all comes down to the FX topic and you know who's going to like make trade-offs there. Um but yeah >> so poly market has it at 37% chance. You

think higher or lower? >> I I don't know. I think the [laughter] I've seen I've seen people more bearish than 37% in >> like is my feeling but frankly I did not do the math but I I really don't know. Yeah, >> makes sense. >> Paul, last thing I've got for you here from my side. Um, when you're thinking about um what the strategy change is for the bull market, I mean, I think we're in this transitory phase, whether we're going to time the market or not. As a founder, you're kind of placing bets consistently based on uh product, strategy, team, but also in this industry being, you know, the the overly cyclical nature of it, you're also

placing kind of market bets. How do you think about treasury management for the upcoming period? How do you think about optimizing, you know, token holder value? How do you think about product strategy? What's what changes for you guys across the the board? I guess, you know, I'd say Morpho is probably not the best example here because we, you know, we just closed a round of $200 million, right? So, we're probably one of the best like wellounded uh uh companies in DeFi, if not, you know, the most and and and so we I' I'd say we'd have different set of questions that we ask ourselves than like we don't think too much about the crypto market specifically, but you know, the questions I ask myself is more

the fintech market. how is their you know time to market to move on chain or with the large you know trfy institutions like are they close to the moment where they're stopped doing proof of concept and they will actually build businesses entirely on on chain like those type of questions so I you know and obviously those things are correlated right because as soon as we'll see like the inflection point of like you know all the fintexs moving their their money directly on chain or or generating yield on chain issuing loans or trading on chain it will you know have tremendous economic impact on on the ecosystem which will probably have an impact on on value of tokens in general. Um so but that's I'd say downstream of that I I've you know I've

been historically very bad at predicting any of those events. Uh what what I will say though is that every single fintech that I know of has a road map to move like fully on chain. uh at at some point in the future like in the next like few years like it's not just like ringing the crypto section on chain whatever it's like the entirety of the app right and the entirety of so that's one thing and as you get this distribution on chain trfy is looking at this like you know the asset managers the banks are looking at this they're like oh okay so all of this money is going to move on chain so I'm going to be able I'm going to have to manage capital on chain right because this is where the money is going to be or I'm going to have to originate

because this is where the cost of capital is going to be the lowest or this is where I'm going to earn yield etc. And so there is going to be this inflection point and to me this is all this is about is like this combination between market distributors and market operators like the fintex and the trati when they meet together on the chain this is the next zero to one for crypto overall right and we're building towards this I spend my nights and days every seven days a week 24 hours like working on making this happen but but we're we're getting there like we're getting there we see this like Robin Hood launching on on more for like you know a few a few a few weeks ago. Um many others will follow in in in similar in similar patterns and tric seeing this strat fight is coming on chain as well

etc. So we're getting there. We're just like regrouping the the activation energy necessary to make the you know the um the the world recipe come together. >> Yeah. It's not even like >> it's happening and a lot of the things that you're saying align with the thesis that we've been talking about on the show. We have this tokenization super cycle that's happening. All of these assets get tokenized. There's trillions of dollars that get tokenized. Once they get tokenized, they need to go somewhere. It's not like we're just going to tokenize them for tokenization sake. So, they end up getting into the DeFi protocols that have been building for this moment their entire existence.

And then we rerate the protocols valuations based on the onslaught of new assets. And so, a lot of that ends up into the vault complex. And so, the the final thing that I got for you, Paul, is you know, at at one point, I mean, we saw Robin Hood basically announce that, you know, Robin Hood is now open to AI agents. You can open a Gent account, connect an AI agent to manage it. At what point is AI managing these vaults? You mentioned like a lot of these have like a lot of active management that could go into securities that could go into crypto. Do you think we're going to see AI curators here pretty soon? >> So, a few things. I think AI curators is tough because you know there is this thing about risk management that is it's about predicting the future in some

capacity and it's one of the last jobs that will be automated by AI in my opinion it's like you need to give a price to possible outcomes for the future and AI is not there yet right AI is very good today for agency which translates into UX right so I think this the real zero to ones is going to be in defi and in the financial indust indry is going to be how do you invest into products? How do you have someone that can classify your risk profile based on your history, the context, your identity you give about them are able to guide you in your investment decision and let you deposit into that investment decision that is right for you. When it comes to managing funds themselves, I think that's going to be a little bit later. Probably it will come at some point you know you know AI is going to

take over everything anyway but but like um it's in my mind this is this is later on. Um now in practice today it's practically nothing right like to be completely honest like uh >> we you know we also work on this we have like uh you know uh we have an MCP we have like skills we have a bunch of things that people can integrate with their agents to to use Moro we have our own like internal like agents that that basically like study Moro all the time give us data around Morpho etc. uh but you know we're still far away from the agent like lend and borrow um that is used at scale. I think it will come again from FinTech. It will come from the Robin Hoods of the world that

flipped the switch, right? >> I don't think it's going to be a startup innovation, etc. And by the way, in the age of era, the age of AI, I feel like >> surprisingly a lot of things are just going to accelerate the existing tech giants as opposed to like letting new new joiners come in because the real capital is the distribution and they already have it. >> Yep, makes sense. >> Paul, thanks for your time. Uh congrats on on the midnight launch, the raise. Hope things go well in DC for you. Um firmly at this kind of intersection of tokenization and uh and stable coins with what you guys are doing. And I think a as you mentioned like the the crypto market volatility is a bit less relevant than the broader secular trend

of the uh capital movement from offchain to onchain. So there's kind of like multiple charts you can look at and I think if you look at that chart consistently and you know it it paints a different picture than the ups and downs. So uh keep up the great work man and uh thanks for your time. >> Thank you guys. >> See you next Paul. >> All righty Rob. Um pretty good segment. Pretty pretty good segment. Um bullish. What is that what does the token look like right now? >> Looks like a stable coin. >> Stable coin. A $2 stable coin. Yeah, pretty much >> bullish.

>> Yep. Um, bullish, you know, and they're probably generating a ton of money. Companies absolutely just fantastically positioned. >> Yeah. >> But, you know, there's no buybacks, >> uh, or at least there's limited buybacks. There's not a ton of value acrruels. So, I I agree. The business is printing. >> Yeah. >> Uh, the token, we'll see. We'll see. >> Guys, we got some breaking news here. Let's get the breaking news going. Um, real quick, hit that, Leo. >> We need a drum roll. We need a drum roll sound effect. Should we go something? We need something. It's coming. It's coming. We got breaking news here from Tushar Jane >> before we get uh the uh Robin Hood uh fella Johan up in the tower. We got some breaking news about what Multicoin is

doing. coin is not planning on selling their hype. They unstake a large amount of their hype position in an effort to preserve onchain privacy. Their funds are constantly being tracked, forcing regular wallet rotations. This is why we're long Zama and Ze because Zama unlocks private DeFi and Zcash is a leading private store value chain. As capital continues to move on chain, privacy is paramount.

They are not selling their coins. The FUD can be absolved. Whether or not that has an effect on the price looks like hype had a nice hourly bounce on that news. obviously still looks like it's kind of rolling over a bit, but might set in a little bit of the FUD and allow people to, you know, have a little bit more of a bullish shorter term perspective on hype. Passing it to Rob. Going to get Mr. Johan set up in the studio. Rob's going to take you guys through the next piece news. >> Yeah, guys, we're gonna get Johan, the GM of crypto at Robin Hood up on the show live from the tower. Fantastic show for you guys today. uh with Paul from Warfo and Johan from Robin Hood. Uh

let's go ahead and hear from Charles Diwasi uh around his Bitcoin thesis. Always love a good Bitcoin thesis. We talked about how currency debasement, fiat debasement is uh becoming in the news once again and we think this is going to be a structural and foundational uh trend. So let's go ahead and play the clip. Will Bitcoin be the only solution? I think going too wild that can essentially discredit the industry and discredit uh this kind of the people going into those those predictions.

Right. So you want to be a little bit conservative in a way and and and not going uh not going too far in your in your hopes uh if I if I can if I can say so. Uh but going exponential non-stop I think it's a little bit it's a little bit optimistic. Um and uh but having said that it's also uh it might it might keep building stronger and stronger foundations for higher and higher highs uh with uh with with the chaos of the of the world. Should it be in currency debasement? I think we have currency wars coming also our way with with the past the past quarter. Some some part of the world don't want to have a reliance

as much as they used to be on on the US dollar. And I think the US dollar itself has has changed over time. It used to be very much a Liber type of system, an international uh asset and nowadays the US dollar is essentially much more a bold type of asset like the Treasury Back the US dollar. It's much more US- ccentric. Um and it's it probably creates creates some weaknesses over there. Uh when the US as most of the government in the world is in is in high depth and its currency is linked to his depth mostly. uh this this will create some some friction at some point. So will bitcoin be the only solution? Uh will bitcoin be part of the solution

from other countries? What is for sure is there is uh ongoing currencies wars in the making. In my opinion the US dollar will remain a strong a strong competitor but many part of the world wants to wants to see some alternative coming up and and bitcoin is one of those candidate and can only benefit I think from uh from this this currency tension. Well, I think you make some good points. I think we are seeing the currency debasement thesis uh rejuvenate once again is making its rounds. Um I do think that as more uh budget and uh approvals are happening uh in the US, this is going to become more and more of

a consideration. Uh guys, we are going to get over to uh Johan in the tokenization tower. Uh, I believe we're gonna get as much time as we can with him. Uh, so guys, uh, stay long. Don't get shaken out. Diamond hands around here. We're gonna answer all the questions that you have around Robin Hood. And, um, you know, obviously this is the hot thing everyone wants to know about. I anticipate Cash Cat is going to come up, other meme coins that might get into on Robin Hood. Obviously, there's the RWA thesis as well. Uh they just released their card, their annoyingly platinum card. Uh it's annoyingly heavy.

Uh Robin Hood chain strong early momentum two weeks after launch with over $3 billion in weekly DEX volume, 52 million transactions, nearly 1 million addresses, and 330 323 million TVL. Egentic economy is scaling rapidly with $77 million in agent volume over 2100 agents. uh recent highlights uh Robin Hood crypto launch of stock tokens as one to one equities if you're listening I want to hear about the mechanism that they use for just in time tokenization I think this is a fascinating mechanism it's very very cool and my understanding is that they tokenize on demand as a new order comes in for a purchase of a stock

they tokenize the stock and deliver it as the order comes in so very curious to hear more about this mechanism I'm going to kick it over to the guys in the tower for a fantastic interview between Andy and Johan. See you guys in a bit. [music] >> [music] [music] >> If you're serious about crypto, this is where you need to be. The rollup will be broadcasting live from the Rare Evo Expo

floor on day one. It's [music] July 29th and 30th at the Arya Resort and Casino in Las Vegas. General admission is free, so don't miss out. Hear from US Senator Bernie Moreno, Steven Gregory from Binance [music] US, Brian Quintens from Cali, and Maggie Parsons from Lighter. Connect with industry leaders from Bitwise, Wintermute, Privy, and dozens more. Claim your free ticket today [music] at rare evo.io.

We'll see you in Las Vegas. >> [music] >> We get we get deep. We get deep. We get We get deep, [music] you know. We get deep. [music] Going

70. All righty, guys. Welcome back to Tokenization Tower. We've got uh Johan Kerrat, the head of crypto at Robin Hood, following their wildly successful Robin Hood chain mainet launch and uh the world is flat event. Uh Johan, great to have you here. Nice day in the city. >> Nice. >> Beautiful weather. Beautiful, beautiful view.

>> Good to have you here. Uh I'm sure you're busy in the city after the launch and all the crypto happenings at Robin Hood. Early momentum, $3 billion in weekly DEX volume. That stat came in this morning. Over 50 million transactions, over a million addresses, over 300 million dollars in TVL, ton of new developers coming over as well. Um, what a launch. Congrats. Give us a kind of lay of the land internally. How you feel about it? What what your kind of uh reflections are? Did it, you know, surpass what you thought? Was it less than what you thought? How do you feel?

>> Yeah, we we feel really good. Uh, super excited. I think you know for us the idea was really to have an ecosystem that was ready to build for all the developers that want to bring things on chain. Um and actually like a lot of the stats that you just said are already outpaced and so we we passed 105 million transaction this morning. Um and I think it just show like how many excitement there is on the space right now. >> Yeah. Yeah. And you know, I think notably what people find to be quite quite interesting is this kind of barbell of memes and RWAs. As as your CEO Vlad kind of tweets, there's two wolves inside of you. Um, from the bootstrapping strategy perspective, how was it thought about internally to differentiate this from uh other blockchains? Obviously, Robin Hood's got quite the distribution on on the front

end side from the consumer perspective, but thinking about specifically the, you know, strategy for onchain. Um, how did you guys think about this kind of, you know, dual wielded strategy, um, and your edge and kind of being able to really bring a lot of the the tokenized equities and products that you guys have, these relationships, these licenses on chain. Kind of talk to us about, uh, how you thought about the strategy going into it. Yeah, for us uh it's pretty important that we make that chain permissionless and available for everything. So that includes meme, that includes RWA, that includes like so many more product. Uh we are integrating deeply with the chain. So we launched a product called Robin earn where you can get yield on your stable coin that is on the main app but it's using the chain at

the same time. So that's bringing a lot of liquidity. Um the memes are also bringing market makers are bringing defy customers and then the RWAS are more for uh customer across the world that can't access easily US stocks and ETF and so uh you know everything is going to coexist and the fact that we had partnership from the get-go with multiple dexes unis swap arcus lighter uh really helped make sure that you know we had the the infrastructure to support this trading activity on day one. Yeah. And I mean we keep saying that the these kind of three kind of large trends have emerged as exports of this industry. Per tokenization and stable coins really these three exports of the industry have

become not only superior products to the uh alternative in the traditional space whether it be a wire transfer commission free brokerages that all only operate you know 9:30 to 4 or uh options or futures contracts that expire. there's kind of alternatives that are from just from a pure product perspective we feel are inferior to the kind of blockchain version when you're thinking about Robin Hood chain and the strategy from this perspective of these three mega trends and just trying to get behind them and kind of floor it. How do you think about capturing that market share kind of broadly like these three are going to continue to grow? what makes Robin Hood especially positioned or wanting to really get involved in this um more than

kind of other endeavors or just kind of how you guys see this uh playing out? >> Yeah, so Robin has 27 million funded account. Uh that that means that for a lot of his customer right now they they don't necessarily have the access to some of his DeFi product because DeFi is still complicated. Defi is still something that requires a lot of technical understanding. And so for us the idea was how do we bring this better product that you mentioned through DeFi but also make it easy to use easy to access not having to create a wallet private key and all these things and so that's what we've done for example with Robin and Earn it's we think the best of the two world you get the high yield from the DeFi space but you also get the simple the simple UX and UI and the the

kind of security that you're getting with a Robin platform and I think that's where we see the world moving convergence between TRFI and DeFi and basically you get the the good of the technology of the blockchain technology of the global accessibility uh from from crypto to help make better product for the centralized platform like like um we started with earn we started also with tokenized assets of stock tokens product is available in 120 plus countries with the wallet um and you know I think it's just a beginning we'll see more and more of this asset being tokenized and being accessible to all these customers Yeah, and you guys have a unique advantage here when it comes to the tokenized equity space because you guys from what I understand after speaking to the Arcus

team, there's kind of this just in time tokenization availability of equities in that you know when um you know purpose platforms for example are are choosing to list equities there needs to be you know some market makers and sufficient demand from their users for for spot onchain. you need to build out liquidity pools which obviously still exists for Robin Hood chain but you guys have this kind of uh dynamic where you're able to almost like uh bring tokenized equities on chain really rapidly due to the uh ownership of them already in in in Robin Hood through the relationship with the DCCC and through all the brokerages. Um could you just explain a bit more on that? What does that actually look like from like the product side? How how does that actually kind of work? Yeah. So, um when when you go on chain, you can

actually trade all our stock tokens and uh we wanted to make sure that we had deep liquidity without necessarily locking a lot of capital uh for for all the market makers. So, we have uh prop AMM, we have AMM, we have RFQ, we have all these different system plus the classic pool that are available so that um if at any point someone wants to buy this stock token, they are able to get it at a at a good price. Um the the other aspect is that Robin Hood has this huge experience with operating a brokerage with operating with market maker in the space and so we're able to use our relationship to also bring more of these people uh within the Robin chain and making sure that there is market for for stock tokens but uh you

know at this moment we're still at the beginning um we have a bit more than 90 uh stock tokens that are available on DeFi and I think the question is more like how do keep expanding not just to US stocks but also to international stocks, private markets and more. >> Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Um, couple things here from the community. Are there plans to bring per powered by lighter into the main Robin Hood app at some point especially in the US obviously we're waiting on clarity here this week, next week. Um, and and kind of you guys did this uh partnership with lighter for the Robin Hood wallet as the official perex platform. What does that expansion look like into bringing pers uh powered by lighter into Robin Hood

core into the the US market? How how important is that for you guys? What are the obstacles there? >> Yeah, I think right now we're still looking at the regulation. Uh you know, even with clarity uh happening, the per is still another big piece of it and I think we'll we'll take a bit more time. Uh what we really wanted to do was bring a good UX and UI which we built within the Robin wallet. you can interact with all the contracts on lighter. Uh lighter also just launched the the fact that you can use your stock token as collateral which I think is huge. Um and uh you know we'll see what we can do in the future on on the US app. But I think per is something that we're excited about.

We offer it also in the EU for example with our uh centralized exchange Bitstamp and I think that's something that we see a lot of customer demand for. So um last year we launched perhaps just for crypto contracts. Now we actually expanded to commodities and to ETF contracts and you know I think there's a lot more that we can do. It's really funny because uh crypto per is kind of a a primitive that crypto invented like it didn't really exist and you start to see a lot more people preferring it to to traditional options. >> Yeah. Yeah. And and you also just see just the growth of the volatility in geopolitics or in macro and this kind of 24/7 being almost it's now it like a year ago it felt like it was kind of a nice to have. It feels like now in the

traditional sense um it feels like a mustave and so that transition I think is is is also going to continue to push towards per as kind of a superior product there. talk to us about the relationship with Arbitum, you know, launching um Robin Hood chain as a standalone chain using Arbitum's tech stack. Um there's been this rhetoric on X about Ethereum not charging enough for rent. Um and how Robin Hood chain has made, you know, over a million dollars of revenue but paid, you know, a mere one or two percentage of that to Ethereum in in rent for security effectively. uh talk to us about the tech stack choices and why launching a business on Ethereum just makes sense for somebody like like Robin Hood.

>> Yeah, so I I think we wanted to focus on what we are good at which is bring good UX UI focusing on the financial products we wanted to build um and less about rebuilding something that already exists. I think you know to get to the level of security and decentralization that Ethereum has it will take a long time a lot of decision has to be made. they started as proof of work then moved to proof of stake. Um you have multiple foundation working on it and so I think for us that was really the interesting part that we could benefit from the security and the decentralization that Ethereum has also get access to the liquidity of the EVM kind of ecosystem.

Um and then the choice on the what L2 to use was really about the technology. I think with arbitum we're very excited to be able to use some of uh what they've published in the past like stylus for example that allows you to code in any language. Um we also get extremely fast blog time. We were you know really focusing on that because a lot of our uh products that we are building are financial products. So speed is very important. We wanted to have low gas fees because uh when you see excitement we don't want the customer necessarily to charge more. And so you know if you look at last week for example there was a lot of uh buildup on the chain and we made sure that the gas fee will will stay low. So um having this L2 gives us a lot of choice on the decision that we

can make and a lot of um kind of autonomy of what we want to build but we're also benefiting from all the the work that arbitum and and the Ethereum uh projects are doing. I think on the rent uh you know it's kind of how it was set like Ethereum by default was was set like that. Um I don't know if it's necessarily unfair or fair. I think you know at the end of the day where I see it is that we're at the beginning. Uh we only launched three weeks ago. Uh so if you think about the fact that we can bring tens of million of customers into the chain, bring more utility, bring more projects that people actually use, not just um volatility. I think you're actually thinking about a very long-term

source of revenue for both projects and I think that's how you you change kind of being a side project to being like one of these major projects that uh will will be here for for a long time. >> Yeah. Yeah. I think so. I mean, you know, that is always subject to change as well, right? You're in the early earliest days of you know, we're we're only 10 years into Ethereum, >> 5 years into rollups and L2s. Um, Ethereum's main mo is to grow, right? >> Is to grow the L2s, is to grow the users, is to just grow because at the end of the day, the >> what the Ethess has kind of boiled down to is an economy of scale thesis, right?

You know, keep the fees as as as low as possible on L2's economies of scale there. Same thing with with the L1, try to uh optimize the L1 for maximum throughput, privacy, etc. And then, you know, if when you have billions and trillions of dollars operating every day, you know, transactions happening at scale across L2s and and on the L1, there's enough of a fee generation there to theoretically turn it into a deflationary asset or at least kind of maintain uh you know, a steady state. Just curious like what you think about the latest developments from Ethereum, ETH Labs, institutional Ethereum. There was kind of this uh reckoning of the uh organizational structure that started a year and a half ago. People were up in up in flames about Vitalic tweeting

about anime while the price is down another 10% and no one's doing anything. feels like this kind of turnaround has been successfully executed from a organizational uh perspective from a focused perspective getting a lot of the DAC companies Tom Lee Joe Luben Joseph Shalom really get more involved and use their capital to fund uh different initiatives how how do you feel about ETH's position relative to one two years ago? >> Well, I I think it's it's such a wide project and it's also such a big ambition, right? the when you think about what east wants to achieve uh in term of goal they want to be the blockchain that runs most of the infrastructure of tomorrow um and so you will always see some divergence of

opinion and I think that makes sense um I think seeing some of these labs splitting and creating new uh structure is actually also exciting you know a lot of innovation comes from competition comes from group of people focusing on different problems and and spending time on that. So, um, overall, you know, that wasn't really something that we we were worried about when we were discussing which chain to use or which L1 to use. Um, and I think overall it's a good thing for for the network. Uh, we we are talking to all these groups. Um, they want to help uh Robin Hood succeed. They also want Robin to succeed because it will benefit from uh it will benefit the the underlying assets. And so I I think for us um our main focus has been making

sure that what we've been building is easy to use for developers especially on this ecosystem. Um when we see issues and when we see that something is not the most optimized for example when we build our stock token uh product we we made some suggestion um to kind of update the underlying protocol to make sure that we could support all the corporate action that we we have um and having this relationship with the labs was was very important. So um overall you know I think for us what we we want to make sure that we are thinking 10 20 years from now uh like I said we are 3 weeks in so a lot of what we've built today is going to uh change in the future and we need the Ethereum uh

foundation and labs for that to to make sure that it's successful. >> Yeah. Yeah. Most definitely. And you know I think that the this tokenization kind of happening is also only in its you know infancy in terms of absolutely stable coins have been around for seven eight yearsish. Um you know to tokenizations in like year two or three in terms of like actually you know happening but it's been talked about and iterated on since 2017. Um you know you guys notably have the stock token offering that you've mentioned here a couple times. One of the cool things that we've been kind of opining on is that as this tokenization kind of thesis continues to grow, assets come on chain, there's like select uh primitives and winners and DeFi protocols that have

positioned for this dexes, per dexes, lending markets, vaults, etc. And so, you know, through the growth of Robin Hood chain, kind of, you know, pushing tokenization forward, you know, I'm curious from your perspective, how you see this from a, you know, business uh logic perspective from Robin Hood and also as an investor. If his thesis is correct, we're going to get, you know, tens of trillions of dollars moving on chain in the next 5, 10, 15 years, who benefits the most? Who are the winners here? Who do you think about as leading this kind of charge from that perspective? How do you how do you think about like making business choices and maybe investing personal capital as like a way to think about uh the second and third order effects of trillions of dollars coming on chain?

>> Yeah, I I think there's a combination of things here. I think the customer is going to benefit a ton. Yeah. Uh you know, if you think about your current position right now, it's hard for you to access international exchanges. It's almost impossible for most people to access private equity. Um, if you have real estate, it's also very difficult to to buy, sell, to to trade. Um, arts, I don't even want to start on this. I don't even know how you get a painting. Um, so all of this with tokenization will be simpler. On top of that, you're going to have a lot more flexibility and competition. Uh, right now, if you have a brokerage account and you want to transfer to another brokerage account, takes at least three, four, five days, uh, sometimes even more. on chain, you can do everything in a few seconds and

move your stock tokens from one wallet to another or for for a different platform. Same thing with collateral. If you want to use your portfolio to get a loan, good luck if you don't have, you know, $10 million plus and even if you do, it takes a lot of time. You have a lot of people that are opinating uh taking a slice of the fees and the cut. So, I think the customer will actually benefit a ton there. Um I think the the the people that are building on it and are starting to think about it, we're also just uh getting in a place where you almost be at a disadvantage not using the tokenized version of it. So yeah >> uh right now using stable coin versus wire you know you can't send a wire on weekend. You you have so many limitation

use stable coin you can actually do that immediately. And so I think that's where you're going to start seeing institution and companies and you know people just starting to move to tokenization because it's just going to be either you do that or you're just being left behind basically. >> Yeah. Yeah. Agreed. And you know speaking of of that there's been some uh a little bit of a of a fabricated battle between Bass and Robin Hood chain over the last couple of days on on on the timeline. Um you know Bass notably pivoted away from social. I think you guys have potential plans for more Robin Hood social type of uh social uh community trading and obviously Coinbase having their uh you know tokenized asset

uh you know push with Circle as well bringing that into Bass. You know I'm just curious what you think of this uh competition rhetoric around Bass and Robin Hood um and how you anticipate these kind of ecosystems growing in parallel. Yeah, I think competition is good for the for the customer at the end of the day. Uh you know when we launch crypto trading on Robin Hood, we cut the fees compared to uh Coinbase quite a bit and so at the end the customer is benefiting from it. Um I think on base or on the Robin chain we are such in early stage here that you know I think the the debate is a bit too early at this point. uh you know we are 3 weeks in um they are a couple years in I think

if I remember correctly and if you look at the results so far is that very very very small fraction of the population is holding tokenized asset and I think you know what I want to focus on is making sure that the entire globe can actually own assets and that we will have more assets hold in a tokenized format that in the current format that that we have today. So um I think you know my focus is more on growing the pie versus getting market share. Um ton of respect for what they did. I think the the social experiment that they try is interesting. And you know I think it's normal to try new things and maybe sometimes they fail, maybe sometimes they will actually succeed. Uh but at the end of the day we we are at the

beginning of blockchain and so a lot of this new development and new ideas um you know it's still experimental and will take some iteration to to get through. But on our side, we're mostly focusing on creating financial products. So our first earning product um per spot trading these kind of things. That's what we we we are really good at and that's where we think we can bring value to the customer. So that's why we've been focusing and uh you know we we don't really spend too much time on the Twitter battle on this one. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. you know, but you guys have uh kind of established these relationships with these DeFi protocols uh that you guys announced at the world is flat event. Um several, you know, Morpho on the vaults and lending side.

Um you know, lighter on the per side, Lei on the aggregation and crosschain API side, chain link layer zero. you know when it comes to looking at primitives for building what you guys are trying to do in the space you know aside from kind of the commercial side of things what are the key key kind of operational technical founder like what are the uh considerations that Robin Hood makes when it comes to uh selecting the infrastructure the partners and understanding what is going to be best for your needs. Yeah. So, uh, Robin is a public company. Uh, we are licensed across the world in different, uh, shape or form. And so, for us, it's very important that whoever we work with,

they they understand that aspect and they work with us to make sure that whatever product we we build is compliant with the rules that we we expect. Um, the second thing is we want to create experience that are unique to our customers. So when we launched our landing protocol with Moro, what was very important for us was to get this stable rate. Um and also a very easy to use UX and UI uh we also wanted to create an insurance program around it. And so for that it requires like deep uh discussion and deep partnership. It's not just we can plug with the API that is available online. And so um a lot of this discussion that we had with all these partners was really to try to find a way to to get to a spot where we can

build a product that our customer are excited about. >> Yeah. >> Um and that is kind of unique from from the competition at the same time. >> Yep. Love it. We got a Maggie wants to know if you have a Cash Cat NFT. >> Uh I don't think I I do yet. I've heard that there are some being built but not for me at this point. [laughter] Yeah. Um, so thinking about like this broader transition from like I, you know, you could call Robin Hood a fintech company into onchain. We just had Paul from Moro on half hour ago and he's like a lot of these fintexs I'm speaking about it is just this secular trend of moving a a majority of the operational happenings on chain whether it be the bookkeeping, whether it be the assets, whether it be the trading experience. How do you think about now

that you've kind of uh opened Pandora's box three weeks ago? How do you think about the strategy and the kind of transition from all of the happenings that Robin Hood has offchain kind of going onchain? What does that actually look like? Is because you can't you obviously it's not going to be everything, but what is that, you know, transition look like from a product perspective? Is there certain things that you guys will have start to slowly move on chain and kind of pilot program, see how it goes and then go? What are those avenues just kind of Yeah. >> Yeah. I think we're in this transition period where we are going to find how do we bring a better product to the customers and if it's through the onchain technology then we'll bring it.

So that's what we've done with with earn. We felt like that was a better way to do it than than going the traditional route. Um also for us the international expansion has been a big focus. uh we want Robin to be available in the in the world. Y and going and getting licenses in every single country will take a long time but actually using our wallet is allowing our customer to still have access to this UI and UX that we've built but also get access to new ways of trading and getting exposure to to assets. Um overall I I will say uh I don't think we are you know at the spot where next year the entire revenue trading activities happening on chain. I think that's a bit of a of a dream, but I think if we can find ways to bring

stuff that we haven't done yet, for example, international um equities or 247 trading that is still not available on Robin Hood, we only do 245 um or if we can offer, you know, better solution like we've done with the earn product. Uh we will do that. And I think the chain is going to be the solution for a lot of these products that we we still don't have. And that's why we wanted to really create this backbone that we can use for for all these new products now. >> Yeah. Yeah. Love it. And then from the business perspective as far as revenue and kind of like business lines, obviously you know you guys make a ton of of um revenue from options trading from trading on the platform from the earn features uh other kind of business lines. when it comes to Robin Hood chain

specifically and kind of the onchain business lines um you know you guys have this now that like this kind of business line of this transaction activity that happens on the chain which likely insignificant or certainly insignificant to the broader pie of Robin Hood but what are the business lines that you see as potentially forming from this kind of new extension and how do those kind of relate to this broader customer first product first efficiency thesism How do those kind of go together? Sometimes they can be uh contradictory, but sometimes they can be kind of like a match made in heaven. How does expanding the business for using, you know, Robin chain, how does that tie into this kind of thesis?

>> Yeah, it's it's a balance act. Uh you know, I think so, for example, the gas fees, right? Um there are times where we could increase them because there's a lot of volume, a lot of activity, but we are actually deciding to not do that. and and in the case of uh a couple of weeks ago, we actually decided to decrease them uh to make sure that we could uh make sure that we can have as much volume as possible. Uh we are very much at the beginning. So we want adoption, we want product market fit. Um but also we are worried about spam and bots activities and everything. So we can't make it completely free as well.

Um so it's a balancing act. Also internally we want to make sure that we can show that the chain and the defy program is also something that is beneficial for the group and not just um a loss. So uh you know we we are looking at all these aspects but I I think right now we are mostly into the optimization for adoption versus optim optimization for pure revenue from the chain side. >> Yep. Yep. And then just kind of thinking about Robin Hood and and kind of the uh stock hood and the growth that you guys have seen uh you know it's been one of the you know better performing fintech assets or kind of tech uh assets. when you think about you know broader here so just you know outside of crypto um how has the Robin Hood thesis changed from

the investor perspective obviously not financial advice here but thinking about the you know the ownership of hood as a equity stake in Robin Hood Robin Hood itself has expanded a lot and changed in the last couple years you know I think that there's this very super apt vision that is you know kind of forming that Vlad talks about how how has the Robin Hood thesis changed as the as AI has has become far more prevalent as as crypto and you know tokenization has become uh far more prevalent. you know what is the updated you know view of what ownership of hood really is kind of a bullish expression of >> well uh I think the the super app vision is is actually there uh you know on on

revenue you can buy stocks options futures prediction markets crypto uh you now have also a credit card you also have a banking >> yeah the platinum card today >> the platinum card of today which I think is really really cool uh we also offer agentic trading we have MCP be available for you to to use. Um so so I think that's really that vision that we wanted to have one application to answer all your all your financial needs also at a different stage of your life. I think that's something that is very important because you know the the youth is not necessarily getting education around finance when they go to school when they go to high school but they actually need to start thinking about retirement as soon as they get out of high school which is a kind of this like crazy world

where uh you have to think about when you're going to be 60 when you're still trying to understand what you're going to do after after high school. So um Robin Hood is really trying to push there on the education aspect on the you can open your your IRA on on Robin Hood for example and it's really about helping you think about uh your journey for for finance not just uh you know trading and and getting some return on on some assets. Um, and so I think that's what we've been doing for the for the longest time now. And that's what we've been very good at and we're seeing this very good diversification between all the businesses that are making at least nine figures or more. And I think that really shows that Robin has been able to to grow into a diversified

company and not just a pure trading company. >> Yeah. Ladies and gentlemen, Johan Kerat, the head of crypto at Robin Hood, thanks for joining us today. Congrats on the successful launch. It's been an amazing >> amazing run. fun to watch. Guys, we'll be right back with our next guest, Beef.How's got some awesome hyperlquid stats and charts for us. Then we're going to go through the markets, charts, and more to end the show today. Be right back. Stay with us. See you in a second. [music] [music] If you're serious about crypto, this is

where you need to be. The rollup will be broadcasting live from the Rare Evo Expo floor on day one. It's July 29th and 30th at the Arya Resort and Casino in Las [music] Vegas. General admission is free, so don't miss out. here from US Senator Bernie Moreno, Steven Gregory from Binance US, Brian Quintens from Cali, and Maggie Parsons [music] from Lighter. Connect with industry leaders from Bitwise, Wintermute, Privy, and dozens more.

Claim your free ticket today [music] at rare evo.io. We'll see you in Las Vegas. deep. We get deep. We get we get [music] we get deep, you know. We get deep. [music] [music] >> [music] >> We get deep. We get deep, you know. We

get deep. We get deep. [music] We get deep. You know, we get deep. [music] [music] Money power [music] big [music] money [music] power.

>> [music] >> We [music] get deep. We get deep. You know, we get deep. [music] We get deep. We get deep. You know, we get deep. You know, [music] we get deep. We get deep. You know, we get deep. You [music] know we get deep we get deep know we get deep know we get deep we get deep [music] know we get deep we get we get >> [music]

>> We get deeper. We get deep, you know. We get deep. [music] We get deep. We get deep, you know. We get deep. [music] We get deep. We get deep. You know, we get deep. [music] [music] >> [music] [music]

>> Heat. Heat. [music] [music] >> [music] >> We get deep. We get [music] deep. You know, we get deep. We get deep. [music] We get deep. You know, we get deep.

You know, we get [music] deep. We get deep. You know, we get deep. You know we get deep [music] we get deep know we get deep know we get deep we get deep know we get deep we get we get deep we get deep we get [music] we get deep [music] know we get >> [music] [music]

>> We get deep. We get deep. [music] >> Robbie probably whipping up some Robbie probably whipping up some guinea pig for lunch. Wow. Robbie's going to whip up some guinea pig for lunch apparently. That's what Freedom Guy says. Joe Han's bullish, Robin Hood chain's bullish. That was just a bullish interview. >> Um, not guinea pig for lunch today. >> Uh, so tell us, yeah, takeaways, what do you think?

>> I don't know. Just floor it. Just all in just Robin Hood chain. Um, >> is Hood a buy? >> Hood is just the super app for the future of finance. I don't own any right now. I don't know if it's a buy. Maybe it's a buy. Maybe it's not. Um, I'm expressing my future of finance bet on Hyperlquid rather than Hood, but I love it. I think it's going to do great. And I mean, what do you think, man? I mean, are we flooring it or we flooring it? Multicoins not selling their hype, guys. Boys are up. >> Um, very, very fascinating times in the market right now. I'm uh just continuously bullish. There's just signs that are just telling me

we're exactly where we're supposed to be right now. >> Telling you that this rally will fail like the other vibes. >> In fact, I think this rally won't fail like the other >> really. Okay. >> I All I see out there is that this rally is going to top out. Majors are at local highs. Indices are stalling. We're going to roll over. Maybe we get into the 70s and then there's one leg lower and then one leg lower in October. >> One leg lower. >> Robbie's gonna get liquidated if we go lower. >> Lot of disbelief to me. Just sounds like a lot of disbelief. I choose to be bullish.

>> I actually think ETH is going to reclaim 2000 and be one of the more bullish coins of the cycle. >> I can see it. I can see it. Bankerbot plus Robin Hood bullish. Does he have a Cash Cat NFT? I don't think he did. I didn't ask about if he's going to use ETH for staking or anything. Uh I wasn't really sure the vibe there to be honest. Um but uh great vibes though I would say for Robin Hood chain. What a start. I mean they are just absolutely cooking. Um doing big numbers and yeah I mean it's just been a good freaking run for them. So I'm glad to see it. Guys, if you were on yesterday's show, we had a little bit of a little bit of tech hiccup there at the end. So we didn't get the W's in the chat as more like the

L's in the chat. But, you know, we persevere. We persevere. Things are looking good out there. So, yeah. Rob, what what did I miss while I was on the air? What happened out there? Looks like not a whole lot. >> Um, a lot of deep AI thinking, tinkering. There's a lot of tinkering. >> Yes, >> a lot of tinkering. >> Um, not a whole lot. Uh got to got to reclaim some levels on near. That one is >> that one's killing you back a little bit.

>> That one's killing you a little bit. >> Well, you know, we take a long time horizon. It's DeFi that's really heating up. It feels like the Ethereum ecosystem is just charging. >> Yeah. What about >> It's cool to see. >> You know what's cool is one of our long-term bags, Ethiant levels. >> Okay. >> A lot of work. I mean, we bought them at >> Good idea ventures uh company there. >> Great. We bought them at 26 cents, back up to 46 cents. Really just needs to hold this 46 cent level. Major major level from all the way back in 2025 April.

>> So we we reclaimed a previous resistance from an April April level of [snorts] 2025 where from there we moved all the way up to like $2. So hoping to see the 1010 wick on Binance on EtherFi is the most gnarly thing I've ever seen in my life. Um the the day started at $1.58. The 1010 wick went all the way down to 8 cents. >> Oh my [laughter] gosh. >> I've never seen anything like that in my life. That is disgusting. >> That's incredible. We >> incredible.

>> I mean, we're looking pretty good across the board since about July 1st. And so I would be curious. I'm looking at like monthly candles right now. Like what is like monthly time frames looking like so that really What's that? >> Probably bulled up, dude. >> I mean, it just feels like something flipped around July 1st. Looking at Bitcoin, looking at ETH, looking at Etherfi. Uh, that is when I feel like there was just some structural changes. >> Okay. >> So, that's what I'm keeping my eyes on.

Long time horizons, >> structural accumulation zones. Yep. >> Building positions. >> There you go. >> Just, you know, making plays for the long haul. not trying to, you know, go pico tops, pico bottoms, and uh >> just hanging out there. >> Well, we got a a a friend of of mine, Beef HL. He's got some um he's got the grill report. Hyperlid grilled every week heat check. He's got the heat check for us, guys. So, if you're holding hype, this is going to be a fun one. Um because you're he's going to get into the data. I got a feeling he's going to come on here with a lot of energy, but I could be wrong. Could be wrong. And he's

going to share his screen and he's going to just give us the heat report. So, the current heat report is Multicoin is not selling and the boys are up. But, I got a feeling he's going to get more into the details, bit more into the market stats, stuff you guys want to hear about. So, that's going to be a fun one. W's in the chat. Freedom guy, my guy is back. He is so back from the dead. Thought we lost him for a second. Truly thought we lost him. Wasn't ready for what that would have entailed for us, Rob.

>> Um, yes. We don't want to lose any of our precious dubs or audience members here. We love you guys. And so, we're gonna get another lovely guest up. Beef, I believe he is behind the scenes. I believe he is ready to come on the show. >> Yeah. >> So, we are excited to have him. There he is. >> Beef. >> It's Beef. >> What's going on, man? >> What's up? Super excited to be chatting with you boys. How you guys doing today? >> Sir, hey, we're living life large, man. We're living large, >> dude. I tell you, >> how are you?

>> What a roller coaster, man. the past few days have been, if you've been in the hyperlquid ecosystem, you know, you got all these >> alerts flashing, people speculating, and then today to see Multicoin come out and say, like you said, uh, Andy, you know, that they're not planning on selling. >> They're not selling. >> Huge sigh of relief for some people who are freaking out there, maybe a little too leveraged. [laughter] >> Levered to the tits, my guy. We don't want to do that one. Don't want to do that one, guys. Yeah, I got this drill report for us, man. New this is a new segment on the rollup. We're gonna we're gonna, you know, test it out today.

>> See see see how it goes and >> get this thing started. So, what do you got for us, Beef H? And and first of all, quick introduction for our audience and >> yeah, tell us a little bit about yourself and >> what you're doing in the Hyperlid ecosystem >> and how you like your steak. >> Dude, that's how I end all my interviews. I ask my guests how they like their steak. [laughter] >> Yeah. But uh no, I' I've been in the hype eco since like um December 2024. I've been making content exclusively for Hyperlid since March 25. Started out just covering the news. Um and then it kind of morphed into an in-depth interview kind of structure with um key builders in the space. Um just trying to give them the spotlight because you know

like Hyper EVM certain sides of Hyperlid don't get enough credit in my opinion and there's tons of stuff happening there. So, uh, yeah, then I, uh, flash forward to, um, this past summer, formed HL media. Um, we are now taking this a lot more seriously. We're we're a team of three who do spaces, um, our interview structure, hyper meet, and then, you know, provide support to the different builders to to let them accomplish their goals. So, it's just really excited to get more serious about it. Um, yeah, I'm really grateful for the opportunity and I love the ecosystem, you know, like there's there is a lot of culture on Hyperlid that a lot of people don't see. They just see that >> that uh the trading exchange. So, there's a lot more to it and uh yeah,

feel free to check out some of our content if you want to dive into it deeper. Um, >> all right. Well, let's get the grill report up here, Leo. >> Oh, yeah, dude. >> Um, and >> yeah, fresh off the grill. [laughter] >> All right. >> All righty. So, uh, yeah. So, over the past, uh, seven days, there's been, um, about 9.1 million hype bought back, uh, in dollars. So, about 140,000 hype burned. And that's, uh, 90, you know, some people say 97% of all the fees go to it or 99. Um, I don't know if I've ever actually found it. It might have just been a trust me, bro, for the 99% uh, in any docs. Not sure there >> but u this is a good sign guys. Remember

this is permanently removing that from the supply forever. So super pumped about that. >> Um >> yeah and uh yeah actually Leo just go full screen on the screen share real quick. Full screen. Um let's get it up. One sec. We're good. All right. Cool. So, I don't

know where it cut off, but uh 140,000 hype burned. Remember, that's permanently removed from the supply with circulating supply being, you know, so low. This is a great thing. So, excited to see that. Um, HIPP 3 is killing it lately. Uh, over the past week, there was a few times where, um, HIP 3 volume was higher than crypto trading per volume. So, this is super exciting to see. Huge fan of what uh, Trade XYZ is doing. They're really crushing it. Um, you know, there's a whole, you know, are they going to launch a token? You know, like people are excited about that, speculating about that. That's exciting stuff. Really proud to see them and everything that they're bringing to

market. So, uh, yeah. So, HIP 4, super exciting news with HIP 4. Um, I don't know if you guys covered it already today or yesterday, but talking about how, um, it's now on test net, the permissionless markets. Uh, and you're going to be allowed to do a hundred of these markets if you have staked 500,000 um, hype. So, it's on test net. It's going to be rolling out soon. I know that people are very excited about this. Lots of builders waiting on this. So, this was a very welcomed update. Um, yeah, I'm going to be exclusively uh doing this as opposed to uh some some other places that shall remain unnamed.

[laughter] Uh, and then I got to, you know, tip the hat to culture here. I don't know if you guys Yeah, I mean, this is the official Hyperlid NFT was given to OG airdrop recipients. Um, you know, tracking the floor here. There's tons of speculation, tons of culture with these things. There's I think there's like 15 in the collection that were actually handcrafted by Jeff himself and you can search those by um the trait that says by Jeff. So if you want to go and check those out um super exciting. I just got one. This uh PFP you see >> this is my custom tweak on it. They don't have a stake trait. So you know I had to add it though with my name and you know my swag. [laughter]

>> Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Partnered withxyz. Did you know that the actual price of beef um is going down right now? So, you can enjoy cheaper steaks. >> Yeah. No, but my Wagu that I ship on dry ice from Japan, it's probably still going to be pretty expensive. [laughter] >> Wow. That that is giving me ideas, Steve. >> Dude, I'm telling you, so good. >> Incredible. >> Yeah. So, that's pretty much uh short and sweet, you know. Just wanted to try this out with you guys. Um, yeah, make sure to check our latest interview. It's with George. Uh, he's kind of a well-known I think you guys had him on your show, too. Yes. Well-known, prominent, uh, Solana voice kind of, uh,

discovered Hyperl. I shouldn't say discovered, he's been on Hyperlid. Um, yeah, it was a great conversation. Really deep thinker. But yeah, check out everything HL media's got cooking. And, um, I'm a huge fan of you guys and everything you do. And I love when you cover Hyperlid stuff. Um, you know, I geek out when I'm watching it and comment in the chat. You guys have seen me and made fun of my name before. Like, hyper meat, like what the hell? [laughter] >> I appreciate the opportunity, guys. >> So, tell us, hypermeat, are you well done kind of guy? Medium rare? What are you What are we working with?

>> Oh, dude, it's got to be medium rare. Um, it depends on the cut, you know? Like, I like the ribeye the best. You don't really need a sauce with that, but maybe with um a tenderloin, you can have a nice uh you know, Bernese or a cognac sauce to go with it. >> There you go. >> Um yeah, man. I I get fancy with it sometimes. >> Beef, do you think that the uh multicoin announcement today materially changes the short-term outlook for Hyperlid or does it not really matter? >> Um I think in the end people are going to do what they want to do, obviously.

But I I think it's a a sigh of relief for some people like I said who maybe have been too leveraged. >> So it's good to see them clarify that and you know they were expressing this is why we need like privacy. You know people are watching and moving markets freaking out and stuff. Um I think this is a good thing though because to me like looking at the hype chart overall we're kind of consolidating around this this zone and um you know barring any negative you know news from the clarity act or um you know an increase in volatility from the war uh I think this will be a good launch pad uh into the next phase of hyperlid and you know with the uh Singapore event coming up who knows what the team's going to try and

roll out and get people hyped about before then. Well, I'm gonna do some breaking news for you, Beef. While you're here on the show, we've got a video from Brian Armstrong. Let's go ahead and pull it full screen here. Uh because our lovely bald friend is there in DC and he is cooking and we've got some updates that was posted 9 minutes ago. Breaking news. Let's hit it and let's see what Brian has to say. Let's go, Leo.

The Clarity Act is ready for a full Senate floor vote. The bill represents a true bipartisan compromise with thousands of hours of work on both sides. Couldn't come at a better time. Status quo in the US isn't working. Crypto can't be uninvented at this point. You should wait. You should want clear federal laws. And it's simply good politics. 70% of American voters say they should have already passed legislation. Let's finish this special thanks to Stand with Crypto sent 950,000 contacts to the representatives in Congress. Keep it up. Let's see what Brian has to say. Let me know if you guys can hear this. Hey y'all, Brian Armstrong here. I'm back in the capital working to get the Clarity Act passed.

Now, this bill is at the one yard line and it reflects a ton of work from both sides of the aisle to get to a true compromise. You have to remember that the status quo is not serving anyone in the US right now. There's no federal laws. We've seen bad actors like FTX harm customers. This bill is an opportunity to cement the consumer protections and get America back on the forefront so it can lead in this industry. It also gives a lot of powers to law enforcement to root out bad actors. So, thank you to all the Stand with Crypto members who've contacted their representatives. I think over 800,000 contacts have gone out now and we with fingers crossed I think in the next few weeks we have a good chance of getting this bill the full Senate floor.

Talk soon. Hey y'all. >> Bang. Big claims from the bald man. We've got about two weeks for this to go uh for this thing to go live. Beef, who do you think are the biggest winners the clarity act does go through? >> Well, see that's the thing. So immediately, you know, you're going to hear chatter about maybe some of the Americanbased um companies, you know, getting a lot of the spotlight, but I think overall there's going to be lots of winners here. You know, we have the Hyperlid Policy Center. I'm going to of course I'm going to talk Hyperlid here. Um and we've got Jake Travinsky who is a warrior going to bat for us. And um you know, it's exciting to see these things

materialize. you know, you see like the the notes coming out about how trade XYZ um Iliosync and others are meeting with members of um you know, representatives and stuff. So, um I think it'll be good for our industry as a whole and then in time, you know, it'll be great for for companies like uh or for blockchains like Hyperlid. Um >> where can we trade the hype NFTs? The Hyper NFTs. >> Yeah. So, uh right now OpenC has one. There is um going to be some others that are getting cooked up now, but uh OpenC will have you know like any NFT that they have it. So >> yeah, make sure you guys grab one. And if you don't have exposure, you know,

there is like a um a tokenized vault system called RIP.xyz. Like if you only have 500 bucks, >> um what? Oh, you're talking about the old >> NF drip trade. Drip trade. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But um yeah, so you could still get access to uh hypers if you can't afford them via the tokenized vaults uh rip.xyz. So check that out if if you can't afford a a hyper but still want some of that exposure cuz who knows, man. We could have a whole conversation about season 3 and uh you know all the speculation that comes with that and excitement.

>> You think there's another hype airdrop on the horizon? You know, I've had quite a few guests come on the show and um one of my guests had suggested that uh technically they might not meet the level of distribution for the token to be considered um fully decentralized according to some of the guidelines from the SEC. >> So, I think that they're going to be distributing some coins or burning some coins, removing them from the supply forever. Um either way, if you're a hype holder, I think, and you're active in the eco, I I think it'll be a good thing. Um, the more people the better.

>> Beef, we had a couple people come on and there were some news headlines that came out kind of one pretty recently and then another one that was almost like a year ago at this point talking about how right now there's a large chunk of the supply that's allocated towards the ecosystem, community grants, this sorts of thing. And in the traditional financial world, these shares or, you know, they just get generated when it comes time to do something with them. and you could almost burn like a large portion of the supply. The guy that originally put this out was John Charb from DBA and then more recently there was someone else that was talking about this as well. Is there any chatter about this in the discourse or the forums that you're a part of? Do you hear any sort

of like you know more so than just the typical buyback and burn mechanism that is uh sync for a lot of the revenue? Do you see any sort of you know discourse around you know a large significant chunk of the supply getting deleted from the from the circulating? >> So nothing official. The team is super tight-lipped about all that stuff and you can see it in the chart like before they announce things like nothing moves which is you know super respectable compared to other other places. But uh no it's just more theories you know because nobody knows for sure but you're right there is a portion that's earmarked for community incentives. uh rewards and they actually added to it when there was a portion of unclaimed

hype at the OG airdrop. So I think it brings it to like 42 41% something like that. >> So nobody knows what's going to happen here. But you know if you look at the big picture and this is just my opinion. I'm not trying to be a hype boy or like get you too excited about it. But they've always like rewarded people who are active in doing things. And I think there's probably something like a checklist of different actions, different features you could have done, playing around in Hyperlquid, um doing things in HyperVM, getting yourself aHL, you know, holding a Hyper.

>> Um maybe that'll make you eligible if they decide to bless everybody. And with such a huge USD value that we're talking about here in this slice of the pie, you know, they don't even have to do it all at once. They could and that could be the thing. It could be like a reoccurring flywheel where they do like five 10% and then it's like oh my gosh they still have all the rest of it. What are they going to do? People wait another two years 5 10%. You know what I mean? Like >> yep >> they could really make this uh make this an ongoing thing. Ongoing incentives and you know it's a great card to have when you're going up against like the CME or any of these other big competitors that are going to want to come after Hyper Hyperlid once everything's like

clarified. Um, they just activate an incentive season, man. You're going to see this thing go bananas. >> Uh, Ed Edwards is a steak of choice is a ribeye cap from Costco. Reverse sear. Little Miss Gun likes a mid rare, but a little she's a little filt girl. Um, and Bros are cooking. When trade XYZ airdrop, >> what do you think? Beef >> trade. I mean that, you know, I've heard arguments from both sides. Is that net, you know, like is that going to hurt hype because >> yeah, like >> how does that token dynamic work? Um, I don't know. I I know that I believe in the teams involved, Trade XYZ and

Hyperlquid, and I, you know, whatever they decide to do, I feel like it'll really work out because it'll be super thought out. >> Yeah, super thought out. >> All right, buddy. Much love. Let's get you on next week. Get a quick update from you again. Um, great to have you >> and uh, love the slides. May maybe you got to bring like couple more slides next time. Get us fired up. Get some graphs in there. Get some charts in there. Let us uh, bring bring a slide that we'll uh, have a debate about. All right. >> Let's do it, man. >> You're the man. Thanks for joining. >> Thank you.

>> Take care, Beef. We'll see you next time. >> Thanks, guys. >> All righty, guys. Um, that is our Beef HL hyperlid segment. We got more breaking news for you. Let's hit the segment. I got more for you here coming up. Let's get some sounds firing for our boy. Breaking news. Todd Phillips tweeting about clarity. Here we go. It is not just the ethics provisions that sunset on January 20th. It's that they cannot be enforced after that.

Let's get Robbie and I up on the screen here. uh literally the next presidential administration could not enforce this prohibition for activities that occurred before then. This quote unquote compromise is a joke. As you guys see here in the text, you've got um the amendments in the treatment of the pre- sunset conduct blah blah blah blah. No person shall be subject to any penalty for forfeite or liability under section 30101 or any amendment for conduct that occurs on or before that sunset date effectively making Trump and all of what he's done with the lovely lovely

memecoin not subject to any penalties. Rob, what's your take here? Um, this is the uh the old regulatory moat. Make your way up the ladder and then pull the ladder up from behind you. Make all the money and then >> change the laws so that no one else can make money from doing the same thing. Whatever gets the Clarity Act through, right? I mean, look, Trump has uh made his uh made his money. I mean, the guy made a billion bucks, I think.

>> Wow. If you're a Dem and you're looking at this and you're thinking to yourself, "Oh, it sucks. He made a billion, you know, billion bucks." You know, I don't know if there's any legal recourse for like taking that money away from the guy. Isn't it best if we just say like put a stop to it now? We prevent anyone else from doing this in the future. Look, guy found a loophole. He did it. Crypto is code is code is law. >> Apparently, code is law. The guy made a bunch of money. Um, I mean, look, I think I am a fan of prohibiting Congress people, people people in charge of making laws from profiting from the stocks that and crypto that they are a

part of. >> Why is there even a sunset remove that and pass this? Well, obviously because the Republicans do not want the Dems coming at Trump and, you know, charging him for fraud and pump and dump and manipulation and securities fraud and putting him in jail for the rest of his three years that he has to live. Uh, they'll approve that. Lol. They need They can gripe all they want, but everyone knows that's the best you're going to get. Well, we'll see if the Dems are cool with that, Jingo. I don't know if the Dems are just going to be ready to sign off and be like, "Yep, looks great." Uh, Trump's going to be absolved from any potential crime. Our boy Salman, who we had on the show, who I know that you guys likely watched. If you haven't, that is still on our

channel. Here is what Salman thinks very bearish for the future of clarity. He says, >> "Yep, >> very bearish." He says, >> "It's not just that the ethics provision sunset at noon, it's that they cannot be enforced after that." I mean, so what are the Republicans doing here? I mean, whose idea was this to sunset? It seems like [laughter] >> why I mean January 20th, 2029, man. They're saying that after they're president, they can get involved in crypto activities, or are they saying that presidents that are elected and in office after the 20th are able to? It's just it's just too confusing. I I don't

know. I mean, Paul came in, he said he was bearish. Salman put it at a coin flip. >> I know there's things happening. The White House is urging this to go through. >> Yep. I mean, I was sort of of the opinion that if uh they really made a ton of concessions that this would get to President Trump's desk, like if they were asking him to repay all the money that he made off crypto, he was not going to sign the clarity bill. >> Is Circle the only office in New York City with a better view of the tokenization tower? Bullish Circle. Oh god, what's happening today in this thing?

Yeah, I jinxed it real good there. Is this a buy 240 to to now what what 65? I was talking to them yesterday at the office and they're like, "Look, the only thing that correlates to the price of Circle is just a Bitcoin chart." You You ought to think Circle's a big winner and clarity goes through. >> Um, >> or am I just smoking that Kool-Aid pack? >> Well, let's just walk walk through the mechanics of it. If clarity goes through, then it is more difficult for stable coin issuers to pay yields, right? Because they start to resemble banks. Uh that's the whole yield issue as part of clarity. And so

>> if they can't pass along the yields, then they're going to have difficulties with their uh integrations with, you know, the the Coinbases of the world and whatnot, their revenue share agreements. So, so you're saying not necessarily a bullish catalyst, but if LeBron James goes to the Miami Heat, that could be bullish for Circle. >> What What are the odds on that? >> Will Netanyahu visit New York City? Oh my gosh, did you guys see this video? Oh my gosh.

>> Let's play this video. >> Oh my gosh, I didn't even watch it. And we're not even I'm I'm not even going to be able to give my opinion on this, but Oh my gosh. Let's Let's put this up on the uh on the thing. Wait. Yeah. There we go. Let's get some audio on this. Can we get some audio on this, please? >> I got it. Do you not have it? >> No, I don't. Your video, your other video is doing well with it. What do we got here? >> Maybe Maybe it's being restricted.

>> Uh >> oh, we got talk to the uh the developers of this this uh meeting software. >> Yeah, I mean it's like >> figure out what sort of what sort of censorship we have going on. >> Wait, Leo, do you do you not have audio here? >> Not coming in. The hell does that mean? >> All right. Well, we don't need to listen to this anyway. You guys can watch this on your own before the chat starts to get crazy. I'm surprised he has >> Hold on. Just try to screen share one more time. If you stop sharing and then you there's a little tab that lets you screen that lets you share audio with the uh >> Yeah, it's always enabled.

>> It's always enabled. >> Make sure that thing is clicked on >> of thousands. There we go. Now we got it. All right, here we go. >> Benjamin Netanyahu is >> sometimes you got to reset it. >> The architect of a horrific genocide against the Palestinian people. He is responsible for the killing of more than 73,000 people. For the maming of tens of thousands of children as those who survive undergo amputation without anesthesia. For the targeting of neonatal hospitals and maternity care centers, denying newborns even the chance to live. For the countless people he starved as he blocked food and humanitarian aid from reaching them. For the gunning down of hundreds of aid workers and journalists. And just last month, the UN confirmed that Palestinian

children continue to be deliberately targeted and killed by Israeli armed forces, more than 8 months after the so-called ceasefire. The list goes on and on. All as we as Americans pay for the bombs that do the killing. There is a reason the International Criminal Court >> Hold on. The background music is so unnecessary. So unnecessary. >> Issued a warrant for this. >> This is This is a sad video. As human beings, we have spent generations building a shared understanding that there are crimes so grave they offend all of humanity. Anyone with their eyes, with their heart, with their conscience should recognize the devastation he has wrought and understand that he belongs before a [music] court of law. As I've

said, I agree with the ICC that Benjamin Netanyahu should be arrested and tried for his crimes, as I do for anyone else charged by the ICC. My administration has reviewed every avenue available under applicable law to determine whether New York City could execute the International Criminal Court's arrest warrant if Benjamin Netanyahu came here. It is clear that we do not have the independent legal authority to enforce this warrant. The federal government, however, does and I call on them to join the ICC and execute this warrant. And I want to be equally clear. Benjamin Netanyahu is not welcome in New York City, nor is any other war criminal at large. While we cannot end the genocide on our own, we can decide whether our silence will become another weapon. And

we can examine every tool we have to defend the humanity and dignity of all people. That is my commitment to you. Somebody in chat says, "The only genocide last two years is Chain Street, 10 a.m. Bitcoin dump." Oh my god. I'm actually surprised he's an American flag in the background. should be the the the Somali flag. So, this is I'm I'm not I don't know have an opinion on this. I think it's tragic. That is my only take. >> Yeah. I don't I don't like people dying.

It's sad. I mean, his main uh his main gripe here is that uh or the main emotional appeal is that uh you the people of New York City are paying for the bombs that are killing these people, which to me sounds like the military-industrial complex and a greater national budget and a greater national debt and the fiat currency debasement thesis. Um, on another bullish divergence our way to new all-time highs, >> platform for presidency that I think Mr.

Mdani is going to be attempting. >> O, what do we have here? >> Um, I would just like to say that Mani is uh extremely wellversed at leveraging Twitter or X to communicate his messages. I would say that he's very uh Zoomer friendly which is I think bullish. >> Poly market. Who will be the next prime minister of Israel after the next election? Netanyahu 39%. Some guy named Gotti Eisenot 50%.

>> It's earnings week guys. Um, will Tesla beat earnings? >> That is the question. >> Yeah, but more importantly, are you understand what have you seen this Google thing? >> No. >> July 22nd. That's today. Google, Alphabet is reporting its Q2 earnings after the market closes tonight. That is why people are expecting volatility around 4:05 p.m. Coming up in about an hour. >> Oh, really? >> Uh, Google will announce earnings. Uh, what to expect. Focus on revenue.

Analyst predict. >> Whoa. Whoa. Let's Let's just mute Rob for a sec and uh let's get back over to the screen here. Um, Alphabet Inc. is down 3%. Uh.3%. Um looks pretty okay. Um Google's in a weird position today. They say, let's say they raise capex from 190 billion, the expected amount right now to 200 to 220 billion. Be super bullish for all the semis. But would the market think that's bearish for hyperscalers?

Would Meta Amazon go down on the news because they' be expected to raise? Google just diluted by 60 85 billion. So the assumption is they will either increase capex or at the very least keep it flat. I think we'll get a strong quarter, but many questions to be answered that Google will set the stage many questions to be answered that Google will set the stage for when it comes to big tech earnings. So definitely um definitely uh definitely interesting. Um, and [snorts] we're just going to go ahead and turn that off in the meat and uh um look at what's happening here with this.

And so, yeah, I mean, let's get into the markets, guys, briefly before we end the show today. Um, got you got hype here as well. um looking pretty strong, bouncing per trying to hold up. We'll see how these earnings affect the markets. Lighter looking very strong. Um overall looks like it could make another push here up. Um Zcash looking a bit weak. Um I drew these crazy meme or this crazy lines on Zcash today.

Um, pretty bullish if you ask me. I think this is uh has a likelihood of playing out. I know it's definitely bull vibes, but I think you guys are probably in it with us. I got a 10x long on Google. Wish me luck. Nice. Freedom guy. Cannot read that out loud. Um, but super dope. Um, and yeah, it's just interesting for sure what's happening here.

So, Arrow [snorts] kind of holding up, but has some work to do. These charts are in log scale, by the way, guys. And then, uh, pump had that nice move back above this level that we were tracking. If we take this out to uh normal scale. Um here it is regular scale. See actually the move. So definitely broke that line.

So it's probably worth a bid at that lower level potentially. [sighs] I don't know. We're just watching the majors. We're watching hype. We're watching um BTC. We're watching Link. We're watching Soul Zack. So, buy the rumor, sell the news on Bitcoin for clarity. I kind of agree honestly. Um I could see that marking a weird local top. So, think we have the daily equity segment coming up as well. Um so, Let's get into that daily equity powered by our friends at Dinari and then we're

going to close the show. Um Marcus look all right. Let's get into it. [music] [music] >> [music]

>> All righty guys, took stocks having their headline moment. A16Z published the growth charts this week. Onchain transfer volume is up more than 170x in a year. The sector's market cap crossed two billion this month for the first time. The interesting part is not the growth, it is who showed up. DTCC processes first live production trades tokenized stocks and treasuries as well. Uh the NYC parent company announced tokenized start partnership with OKX. Citadel Securities invested 400 mil into Crypto.com and the companies that already clear list and make markets for traditional equities are building or funding the onchain versions themselves.

This summer reads a lot more like Wall Street adopting the rails while keeping their customers. This moment is important, very important, very very important. Serious players are moving. the land grab is happening that the demand side will be solved and tokenized equities are having their onchain moment specifically on Salana specifically on hyperlquid as far as trading Robin Hood chain obviously dominating there unis swap with their stock tokens and this is happening this is firmly happening we're completely bold up on this trend and we love it and so tokenization is becoming something that is far bigger for Wall Street than what

they previously had imagined. The quantity of tokenized stocks we expect to uh increase at a rapid pace this year into next. And we're firmly bullish on what comes as a result of Wall Street coming on chain. I believe that there's a chart at the bottom of this that we can go at real quick. Uh actually there is not. Um tokenization is no longer crypto. It is a broad story and I think that is very valuable. I think that is the core nature of why this trend has been a secular growth trend in the middle of a crypto bear. This isn't a crypto trend.

This is a secular growth opportunity and we'll continue to see it. That's our Daily Equity Show powered by our friends at Dinari, the leading representative daily equity company with real 1:1 stock ownership backed by US brokerage accounts in your name onchain. Trade SpaceX on Hyperlquid and a variety of other assets on chain powered by dinari. Visit dinari.com to learn more. That's our daily equity. Let's close this show out. Let's get it on the road. Vibes are up. Every guy, everybody watching, give us a like. Give us a subscribe. Turn the notifications on for the live. You know we're here. You know we're active. You know we're having a good time. Andy, why are you bullish on Zcash not Monero? And isn't ETH going to have privacy

features? I'm bullish on Zcash because Zcash is better than Monero. Don't have an exact answer for you, but I I I do believe that >> private Bitcoin quantum resistant flows fully diluted. No IRS back door. >> Bang. Bang. Guys, that's the show for today. No matter what, we're in bull or bear. We're setting positions for long-term, maximizing taxes and tax efficiency, harvesting losses, setting long-term positions in the lows, going higher. My quant told me that we're going to be absolutely flying on Zcash and that is the one to hold long term.

Set your position, figure out how many units you want of Bitcoin, hype Zcash, and sign off for two years. That's the strategy. Some trading in between, some purpose trading to scratch the itch. You know where we'll be. 12:30 p.m. Eastern, tokenization tower, future of finance, financial capital of the world. Rob, anything on your end before you close us out? >> Prediction markets have Google beating earnings. We'll see if the prediction markets got it right. I think W's in the chat is what the market is looking for. >> W's in the chat. >> W's in the chat. >> Sensational.

[laughter] >> Big dooker. >> Hey, somebody give Leo some dukes. >> Give it up for my lovely co-host, Mr. Dooker. >> Give it up for uh give it up for Leo. >> Give me big dookers in the chat, guys. Comment of the day. units of dooker is your dream. >> I think the comments the comment of the day was uh Edward in uh saying the biggest winners of clarity the biggest losers mumani Pocahontas and XRP. >> That's the comment of the day. >> I think the other Edward one, what did he say?

>> N that's not the right one for the comment of the day. >> On that note, we're going to go ahead and wind this Johnny down. Jane Street 10 a.m. Bitcoin dump. Don't ever want to see that again. >> Thank you for everybody who was part of the show today. Give us a like on YouTube. >> W's in the chat. D >> is going to start working on a comment of the day. Stinger transition. It'll be a award that we hand out every single day. >> That's what we need. >> Keep commenting. >> Let's get it. See you tomorrow straight here at tokenization tower. Sara.

[music] [music] >> [music]