Lido Poolside: Tokenholder Update, August 2025

Transcript

Lido Vibes

[Music] Hey, hey, hey. Heat. Heat.

Heat. [Applause] Hello. Hello everyone and welcome to the

Intro and agenda

inaugural LDO token holder call. I apologize for being slightly late here. Uh but we are on air live and ready to go. So first up we have a presentation uh from Lido co-founder Vasilier. If any of you have any questions uh feel free to post them on Twitter, YouTube or LinkedIn. But please note don't share any links because you may get the banhammer and your message may not be displayed. So without too much further ado, uh we will answer all your questions after presentation and or we'll do our best to answer as many as we can. I'm sure there will be quite a lot. And yeah, let me hand over to Vasili to to present.

>> Hey folks, uh welcome to the light token holder update call. Uh I think that's the first one uh for us. So u um I'm happy to start this tradition. Um first I must say that this is uh the call for onlyformational purposes only uh not an investment uh legal or tax or financial advice not a magic spell nothing like that um and um I'll explain why like who am I and why I'm uh on this call like why I'm talking about it. Uh I'm co-founder of Lido. Um

as of pretty recent, I'm also executive director of Lido Labs. Uh Lido Labs is a uh foundation that uh um makes the main efforts and development and support of light the protocol and pedal. uh I used to be um uh chief technical officer of uh light contributors and research lead and recently moved to the uh executive director uh position which I will be explaining a bit later.

Um and the agenda for today is I'm going to explain the uh situation that uh we're visiting right now. What's the uh uh market position, light the position, the market, etc., etc. Uh what the story here like how we got into uh into the position we have now. Um update the token holders on lightabs leadership changes. Uh how we think about the business side of Lido, how do we want to restart the growth? We will also touch buyback proposals and in general questions and answer from the audience.

Lido’s business model

Um so I will be speaking uh like and explaining things that are like very simple because like I'm not sure that uh um how prepared the audience like all of the audience. So sometimes there will be things that already you already know and please be aware it because like you there is I think almost 200 people on this call and I will be talking to all of them. Um so what's uh how light the protocol works? What the business model of light uh the protocol? Um it's a bit more complex than uh it's uh uh uh depicted here on the slide but the general gist

is uh user will deposit if to lighter protocol that if uh get staked on the beacon chain uh and user gets a receipt token st if in return if uh is been um uh funneled into staking modules. We are staking router uh some to the created not operator set some to community staking modules to simple DVT module uh different models with different parameters and different ways of stake and st rewards return to lighter protocol and most of it 90% is uh g is being funneled back to stakers

in forms of uh sty um about 5% slightly less since uh CSM got introduced and ZVT as well u but about 5% gets to the note operators and slightly more than 5% gets to uh light treasury. So the business model of light protocol is that 5% that goes to light. Um, Lido DAO is a decentralized organization uh with a token holder voting uh that uh is governed by LO token

uh that um has control of upgrades and uh changes in LIGO protocol and control light treasury which is used to um uh fund operations of LED labs and another uh foundation that uh work with protocol and for any other purposes that light is thinking this treasure can be spent. Um glads doesn't have uh any uh significant holdings of its own. It's fully dependent on light for finding operations.

so um our current uh and historical financial position starting with 2021 uh is on this table. I will walk you through it um as best as I could. Uh essentially starting with like we uh laid was uh launched in end of 2020 in December. End of 2021 we got to 1.6 million. Uh then we grew uh up until the end of 2024 uh with uh about 9.7 million uh ETH in protocol in the end of 2024 and in 2025 uh we are experiencing negative growth

Overview of historical financial position

of the amount of ETH taken protocol. uh protocol revenue uh that uh we get with this like 5% fee that we talk about is at um since this time grew from uh 3,000 to 30,000 uh E and in this uh moment in 2025 it's 16,000 if uh uh when expressed in dollar terms uh it's uh 8 30 51 uh million and $20.3 million until uh

like at this point in time. Uh but a lot of this revenue had been in st and hasn't been sold yet. So uh it's actually um uh uh not in dollars. So it grows with the ETH price and shrinks with ETH price going down as well. Our spending through the years if you take collectively uh liquidity and operational grants had been only gone down. Uh it started at about uh $1.90 uhund uh million uh mostly in liquidity incentives with token in 2021.

Then it went down uh to about $100 million. than $17 million of liquidity and growth grants. Um 14 million and in this year it's about four uh $4.5 million. operational grants which is mostly um contributors uh compensation but also includes audit costs which are sometimes significant uh and various overhead like uh software legal etc etc etc uh had been growing until uh 2023 and then steadily went down like we started with $14 million then 16 then 51 in 2023

uh 40 million again in 2024 and um um 17.8 uh at this point in time and uh with projection which will have some variance on it uh because year hasn't ended yet. We don't know exactly what this number would be but the projection is about like 31.5 millions or something like that on operational grants uh in 2025. so total spending for example in 2024 was uh 54 millions and uh uh projection for 2025 is about 46.5 or something like that.

Um so far uh uh the protocol in previous years has never broken profit. Uh though it uh um went steadily up uh like the amount of spending that had been uh pushed for protocol growth and operations uh had been steadily going going down. And uh uh um we uh sorry uh so that's uh where we are right now uh in financial terms.

Um market share uh that we have uh had been uh more or less stable though it grew until 2023 to 32.4% and then it went down in 2024 and then it went down further in 2025. Um, we have a sizable treasury that has uh 28.9,000 st teeth and 41 million stable coins. Uh, for a total treasury size of one 176 million at current price. Uh there is also a sizable amount of LGO in treasury

Market share

but uh it shouldn't be counted as a dry powder. I think we are still the largest uh staking uh largest way to stake in Ethereum with Coinbase and Binance u being behind uh almost uh uh twice as much. um how we got there. Uh I going to focus uh on 2023 versus 2025 markets because uh um like how we got from the larger share to the lower share. Um how we think about it is we divide the staking market in segments. Uh there is uh uh segment of uh simple LST users um

Staking market segments

exchange staking uh lowrisk staking uh API maxes and uncatategorized other way to stake like uh home stakers uh uh something that uh we analyze on chain and stuff like that things we don't know about or they don't fit in either of this category. So in 2023 uh the LST uh uh um market segment was the largest at 35%. And it shrunk to 20% in uh 2025.

APR maxis was a really small segment in 2023 because there wasn't a lot of way to get APR or const. Um the only products in this category were uh a small amount of leverage taken hour um small compared to now. I mean like uh and uh some amount of incentivized liquidity pro uh liquidity incentives for some protocols, some additional incentives etc. etc. was pretty small in size. Uh in 2025, it's a very large category that

has restaking, leverage restaking, leverage staking, uh junior pools in, uh fixed yield protocols, uh liquid walls, uh what have you, a lot of uh market segments essentially. Uh exchange staking also grew though but not by much by uh 5% points. Uh lowrisk staking is fairly constant. Uh this is usually simple delegated staking for um high net worth people and institutions and like funds and and stuff. Uh and uh the share of uncatategorized also uh was

reused. So uh in 2023 uh we we did have uh almost all the leverage stake uh uh which has mean that like uh the share of API maxis uh we have about like 90% but it was a small category these days it's about 35% uh which is like leverage staking and collateral staking uh we are still leader in simplest that didn't change a lot Um and uh we have some small foray in exchange staking.

Lido segment share

Um so uh we continue to lead the LST segment but the segment has shrunk from 35% to 20 over the last two years. uh biggest growth category has been API maxis and lighter there is used but is under pressure and exchange taken also grew and it's very hard to wedge into if uh you're not an exchange it's something that uh exchanges usually try to uh keep for themselves um though we have a presence there main reasons uh we didn't grow in this period is that lighter failed to write the wave of raking with the uh lidos own products uh we did focus on improving the staking

products in way that don't break much growth in short and medium term like dual governance and community taken they did a good job at uh improving the brand improving the perception and uh the fact of security reliability um improving the DM alignments u alignment which I think is a big factor in the uh um issuance discussion being on hold for now uh but they didn't uh bring much growth from the largest category that was relevant in this uh two years which is API maxis so um this has resulted negative growth for ladder share we also

had the lowest growth budget uh in class uh u in 2023 three, we already had like pretty tame one about I think $17 million or something compared to uh literal billions that had been uh spent by risk takingaking projects to gain the share they uh they did uh in incentives. So uh uh to turn the situation growth around uh we need to start like doing things a bit differently and uh um uh doing uh approaching the uh uh the decision making with a more like stronger commercial sense and

um that's what I want to do when uh um move moved in the position of executive director. So um uh light apps hasn't changed uh much in composition but it did change in structure. Um I am now an executive director which is mean like uh call most shots. Uh easy is chief of staking uh he's responsible for the staking unit staking products.

Lido Labs’ new leadership

Um Sam uh is chief legal officer and chief operating officer of flyups. Um and uh it's largely the same people except like we had to lay off about 15% of the contributors uh which was a hard but I think necessary move for us. Um I uh used to be uh uh the technical lead and research lead for lido but uh now I'm moving to be an executive director which in the position that uh like hasn't been exercised before in light apps. Uh I

will be streamlining leadership creating clear uh reporting lines and introducing clear business thinking in line with our mission. So uh the way uh we think about the business is uh we measure the success by making best taken product in the growing supplies for the token holders. Um I'm thinking all the proposals and products that we spend any significant effort of uh our capital on must have clear commercial sense and uh I've separated the liab budget into uh break even uh run budget that uh

How we think about the business

uh is about 31 million um for maintenance of the pro business and separate growth budget that uh will will be spent on uh um initiatives to make our share grow grow grow or otherwise improve the business lines. Uh the directions here uh can be uh growing shaking which is uh possible now and timesensitive because a lot of stake is coming in via inst vehicles um ETFs ETPs um um treasury companies um and there is also a lot of uh very

Directions for surplus growth

mobile stake in hyper ction uh making improve improving your share in APR Maxis cohort is uh about as uh easy as uh making a product with high IPR which is not always easy but uh at least it's very unsticky stick that you can uh capture if you have a superior API product uh we can try to increase topline revenue uh uh share of market uh which is on stake teeth product uh is ill advised because ramping up fees is not great

uh we will lose stakers if we try to do this. This can be fought in dual governance as well and um uh we are already in pretty good place on like overall fees. Uh it has a way to happen with V3 WS pricing adjusted and synetic products like liquid ws lending markets resting like offer a different kind of uh utility and value for the uh staker and you can take additional uh uh portion of value capture from it if you offer a genuinely good uh improvement. Uh we can uh reduce the cost of revenue um as in

like our cost of revenue is mostly not operator um uh fees and a bit of revenue share schemes. Um and we already uh got some moves in this direction. uh community staking module is uh uh lower rate for not operators uh overall uh and higher rate for uh for the DA uh but it's pretty small for now. um uh we can reduce operating expenses uh which we already did to an extent and we can branch out to adjusting products by uh diversifying the revenue streams.

Uh I think that right now is time to invest in growth because we have a strong starting position. The we have best-in-class List product. We have durable business model. Uh we expect rapid market expansion. Uh timing is pretty uh important here because it's going to be uh to take uh like under a year I think uh until this way of stake is over. Uh we have dry powder in treasury for to spend on growth and uh uh we have liquidity, we have brand, we have network effects in combination with uh with relaunch that would allow us to enter new market segments uh or have a stronger present in uh existing market segments uh for users

with stronger needs for customization. Um so we can restart growth in different sectors. Um um the major one for us uh liquid uh like simple liquid second segment uh growth here is limited like you can't grow significantly after like 90%. Uh um exchange staking uh is pretty hard to uh to get into if you're not exchange.

Restart growth

They protect this segment very hard. um we are in high per segment uh under pressure currently but uh uh user base is very mobile so uh uh it's a good uh segment to fight in and low risk taking is a big green field for uh D5 protocols. uh it hasn't been uh historically uh breached. Um for simple LSD the real uh success uh in in growth can only come through integration with custodies and uh other platforms.

Um I don't expect a lot of uh uh this growth of the segment size uh but there will be some with um integrations into uh places where customers u exist like custodies and with the favorable LST ruling of regulation that could help to get uh simple LSTs. into uh institutional package products.

Um API access segment I think that we will have short-term pain uh but midterm um I think we will uh gain back the share. Uh the segment itself I think will grow uh as long as there are sources of API to go around. Right now it's like uh mostly uh restaking token uh expenses but though not exclusively. current existing products are stup and being a collateral in our case. Uh there will be supply shocks uh which will push up if borrow rates and

um have the segment to get instability which is probably um is not playing in light. Um but with V3 launch and uh uh defy strategies enabled with ST WS and uh further down the line um I expect additional source of uh um APR here coming from incentives on side pass uh that can also be collected with a looped state.

uh there can be uh um pretty noticeable growth on exchange. Uh it will remain difficult. Um um the categorical size is high but uh the the whole premise is that like exchanges like to get staking revenue as well and we are currently uh are listed in by OKX that u allow us to have some small share in the category. Uh but I think it's going to be a tough battle to to get there and maybe it's not worth it.

Um we will still pursue uh listings uh as uh if it's possible because it improves the liquidity of the uh token and is useful as a u advantage uh for for users in other staking segments. Uh lowrisk staking I think is a pretty big opportunity. It's uh 20% category side. Our current share is zero because like uh the most of the category is made out from simple delegation. And um stakers uh um get the ETH to the uh ST to the node operators uh who have

sales pipelines, good relationship with them uh low uh low risk in terms of legal, regulatory, smart contracts etc etc. And clear part in this segment is uh stake to walls that would allow people to customize uh the staking and not operators to uh use lidos liquidity and um integrations to attract more clients and custodial robber products uh which are pretty good for instation in this approach uh with the recent news of native yield on linear uh which uh in

a few months uh is uh uh slated to be sty. the way it works for uh for the segment victory walls for the class is uh more or less like that. uh most of this category is not operators like P2P Figment running uh like big sales teams to get customers in contact with them, offer them different staking uh options and at the moment they at at the same time have no incentives to sell liquid staking for products or defy

strategies because they lose customers. every that is not staked with them and is deployed to LIDO or other or where else is not deployed to them and doesn't bring the money like client might be it might be like in best interest of the client to to run leverage staking uh because they want like high API and are fine with the risk uh but not operators have zero uh incentive to offer this client because they div uh the client to to defy And at the same time they have very little customization opportunity like they don't uh they have hard times to uh offer a unique product uh because like

they offer staking staking is the same for everyone essentially. Uh they can have a like slightly different setup or like very different setup but most like a lot of stakers don't very much care about it or understand it at all. Um, light3 allows uh the not operator or any other uh essentially uh channel partner to offer liquidity and defy participation to the client without lo losing them and without losing the staking fees. Uh this is uh delegation plus for them.

So in short we are ready to expand beyond simple ST segment. Uh it's been mostly a simple ST and a bit of APR Maxis. Uh but the segment has run. Uh V3 allowed us to wedge into further into APR maxis segment and lowerrisk markets. uh using LST liquidity but going after uh different kind of customers and there is already uh good tailwinds regulations. Uh it's not done yet but uh the climate feels good.

Buyback proposals

One other thing that I want to touch on this call is uh buyback proposals. Uh there had been several community led buyback proposal recently. Uh the latest one was dynamic buybacks. Uh I think that's uh like this is directly aligned with the u goose goal for this year that was set and voted in I think uh beginning of this year right and uh but on the concrete implementation I am proposing longer timeline for two reasons. uh one big reasons here is that we are weeks away from major improvement regulatory

clarity. It would be uh prudent to wait until there is u a clear understanding what value mechanisms are uh uh troubleless and what value mechanism can bring us trouble and like rushing into it right now doesn't make sense when there is like a not a lot of time to wait on this um and uh I think we need some time to discussion because there are several possible mechanisms for manual, semi-automated, fully automated ways to to do uh things like that. So my recommendation here that uh we will put on the um as a proposal for discussion

uh is implementing triggerable rails to by audio stick um that would work with any future mechanism who would implement like who would want something like that by audio stick we'll call it nest and spend next two three months on selecting the best framework um and end of year make a holistic decision to together with goose uh three goals for the next year and budget for the 2026 to uh allocate and implement uh uh some ways to uh automate or like not automate

uh or execute bybacks. one more thing that uh I'm asking of you is um you as a token holders you have uh invested uh in incent to help Lido uh grow and be better. Um so I'm asking you to uh if you um have a um adjusting business or uh you are like adjusting protocol or not agreed or something start building on state walls u test net is out you can start uh

How you can help

working on it I think it's a great primitive um we would appreciate help to um drive further uh into uh uh thread file. We would uh be very grateful if you signal your demand to use custodian exchange for state lead. Uh if it's not listed there yet, uh we are listed on some but not all and we want some pressure on them uh to to be listed faster.

Uh there is also um sometimes there is a need uh for seeing capital in products like ETPs, ETFs and uh um if there is uh if if you have or your friend have some someone have some capital that they would want to park for for a year in ETB or ETF uh to help uh and to help light at the same time. Um please reach out and uh uh we will uh keep you in mind when uh there is a need to do something like that. And and finally uh what to delegate your LDO. Uh it will help a lot because uh right now

the quorums are pretty hard to to get and this uh takes a lot of energy that uh on lap side that could be spent on things that directly improve um um lighter protocol or light share or light the new products or something like that. uh we would prefer to spend uh more effort on uh growth and not on uh uh collecting people to uh please vote for the like uh pretty obvious thing.

Uh and now for questions and answers. Thank you uh for Hello. So yeah, we're going to move on to the questions and answers section. Uh I sure if Yep. Villi and Sam and Izzy. Yeah, we're going to introduce uh some more members of the Lida Labs team. So Sam, our chief legal and chief operating officer and Izzy uh chief of staking and let's get into the Q&A. So thank you very much Vicilia for that presentation.

Lots of interesting and important information in there. Um so yeah, let's get into the questions. Um first up, let me just read it out for the benefit of the viewers. Could you provide a breakdown of protocol expenses, particularly liquid liquidity expenses, so it's easier to understand where these costs are going? Who wants to take that? >> Um yeah, I'll do a small answer on this and then ask uh uh Sam to uh to pitch in. Um in general um uh liquidity expenses uh these days are pretty small uh with a good results in uh actual liquidity. It's best in class. It's not

On a breakdown of protocol expenses

even comparable to competitors. uh and a lot of it is uh I mean is not a lot of liquidity but a lot of expenses goes into uh having LA represented in changes custodies etc etc etc uh which you can't see on chain. So um that was the original question in I think in dynamic buybacks uh post in governance forum and uh like not all of it is actually visible. Uh and Sam can you please pitch in a bit?

>> Sure. Um I guess maybe just to add the facility uh in terms of number the liquidity expense have been decreasing over the years. Um just to give you a sense from 2021 at 176 million to 2023 17 last year being 14 and year to date being uh five. Uh one other thing to note is we we are even though we're one of the most liquid tokens on the market we do virtually no subsidies >> as as part of that which helps in terms of the expenses here. Um that's that's then we can go to the next question there too.

>> No worries. Um, what growth initiatives did you do in the past couple of years and how did they work out? >> Um, I'll let easy answer that and we'll pitch if uh I remember something that uh that I can ask. >> Sure. Um, so there's a couple of ways to look at this I guess and maybe it'll help if we uh go back to Vasil's approach around like the different market segments. Um so if we look at uh you know like pure LST play uh most of the growth initiatives basically had to do with improving liquidity so like making users lives easier um creating like the best kind of staking product

Growth initiatives in the recent years

for users. So uh like withdrawals basically like the way that the withdrawal mechanism works in Lido uh essentially means that withdrawals can be faster uh than it would be natively uh on Ethereum. And it also means that if you want to exit your position via swapping uh due to the liquidity as opposed to like natively redempting uh redeeming the token through the the primary method, the protocol um you can do so at a much better price than than basically any any other uh protocol allows for. Uh the second way to think about it is expansion across uh different market local. Uh so the last couple years like most of growth was happening on layer 2s. Uh so there was a question earlier in terms of like what kinds of things was uh liquidity

expenses being spent on it was spent on creating sufficient liquidity for user demand uh in places like burgeoning L2s. uh and uh another aspect around this was basically getting uh increasing the accessibility of SDH to users around the world. So that might have been through integrations on centralized exchanges um integrations into wallets uh and integrating uh a variety of different like lido interfaces since there isn't just one interface but like it's a decentralized protocol. So wallets or applications might create native interfaces or they might be using the lighter datifi staking widget. So basically just making sure that Lido is available to as many users as possible.

>> I can add a couple things here. Um one thing that uh is over past two years, right? uh that did work out pretty well was working with the uh money markets uh and u um WS protocols of the time for the um leverage staking um uh like in 2023 there was a really huge u up like increase in um stake in uh um via our lending So it started small but like it it went up uh and then uh it went down because

like the part of it was uh eaten by restaking leverage restaking but until then it was like really really good. So uh that's one thing. The other thing is uh um other prime which is uh done together with lido the separate market to money market to have um leverage staking and leverage risk takingaking with ST uh also had been uh had had some success uh for protocol growth. it didn't uh overcome the negative trend but it did stop it u I think pretty uh visibly uh for

>> and maybe one minor thing to add here which is uh like tangential but related to growth. So with the development of like a variety of different um staking router modules which are basically avenues for node operators to use the protocol uh some of these either indirectly or directly led to growth. So uh right now there is the simple DVT module in which basically hundreds of node operators ranging from uh homestakers to professional node operators are running validators together and what we call DBT clusters. uh and the DBT infrastructure providers create incentives for running these validators and these uh incentives are essentially channelneled towards um a a mellow DBV vault where they gather and and promote growth and at the

same time there's also the community staking module which is the permissionless module to allow any node operator to use the lighter protocol and as a part of uh using that module there's a requirement for bond uh so right now I think there's like approximately 10,000 ETH um actually working as a part of the bonding mechanism um and supporting essentially not only the increased decentralization of Lido as a staking protocol um but also growing both the the network of node operators using the protocol uh but also protocol TVL itself.

>> Yeah, great question. Uh just before we move on to the next one, I'm glad you you touched on that because I know the question was very much uh directed towards growth in all financial terms, but as you mentioned with CSM and the growth of home staking, growth is also decentralization and these are these are other things that are are being focused on with initiatives. So I'm gl I'm glad you brought that up. So for the next question, uh it's a question for Vasilei. Uh how much new ETH do you expect to flow to Lido with V3 and other features in 202526? Uh it's a hard question because it's hard to tell like it's very hit or miss thing. Uh we can get uh all we can get nothing. We can like this is a very risky things with just a few deciders

On expected ETH inflow to Lido with v3 features

uh who uh who will be basically king making this record like protocol like um um treasury companies uh and ETF issues. Uh so um it's hard to say. I think it's going to be uh pretty good for us honestly. Uh I'm feel I'm feeling confident in the CPU product. Um but I think I'll go into making the any uh like target prediction after uh they go leave and we have initial market response.

>> Yeah, get a fair answer there. Uh let's move on. Unless anyone wants to comment on that, we can move on to the next question. uh which is given ETH's recent price recovery and stronger market sentiment. Has this influenced Lido's short or medium-term roadmap? >> Um I guess I'll answer that it's like I think it's mostly no. And the reason that we were always bullish with Ethereum and uh like always bullish it and um um like we didn't see the like 1700s as a reasonable price for ETH. So like for for a long time and we made plans based on like ETH recovery and road map is pretty much tied to ETH. So

Influence of ETH’s price recovery on Lido’s short- or medium-term roadmap

like when ETH is going through it doesn't make sense to to change it because it's already bullish and we are just getting vindicated at this point. Uh that's how I put it. >> Yeah. Um nice to see that as soon as we we did this ETH pumped. So I think it was a a reflection of our own road map. Um next question. How do you plan to benefit from ETHF staking which is most likely going to be staked with Coinbase and more custodial staking providers in Lido? Is there a plan for Lido to benefit from this?

On ETH ETF staking strategy and competition with custodial staking providers

You >> want to take that? >> Uh we are working relentlessly on this direction. So uh and with the um regulation going the like the right way in US um it's no longer as one-sided it was like I don't know a year ago or something um year and a half I guess. Um so uh and also Coinbase is not uh most likely the like the most likely stake is not operator for for ETFs like it's uh so far what I'm seeing is not going to happen. I think the largest uh issue

right now for for this is like tax uncertainty. It's not clear how uh LST based uh ATFs are supposed to be taxed and uh uh this is like the the major uh um roadblock uh which is uh I think solvable uh but we'll see how it goes. Anyone want to add anything to that one or?

>> Nope. Okay. >> Maybe just as a catch up for this stuff. So like a lot of people are asking about stuff that like >> obviously can't be talked about unless it's actually announced. So like bear in mind that like don't ask for like confidential business stuff. Like I don't know what what you expect us to say. Obviously uh like contributors are like really believe in in the lighter protocol and the solutions that it offers. There's no other way for institutions to institutions or treasury companies to stake large amounts of stake and to do so in a decentralized way and in a way that gives them liquidity and the choice essentially to decide whether they deploy this stake immediately into DeFi uh and then compound their rewards or to be able to exit at a moment's notice or just ride

the normal like withdrawal queue. Um I think that's a very very winning proposition. And in terms of like integrations with custodians and stuff like that, the recent regulatory clarity in the states um is an immense tailwind and I think it will be relatively um straightforward to try to take advantage of that. >> Yeah. Now this next question again if we want to move on from Frank is very much uh relevant to your last points and again I don't know we can we can really discuss it. If uh are you guys working with any US ETF on their ETH staking solutions?

That's the same question I guess. Uh >> yeah, we can probably move on. Uh what's the plan to onboard these large ETH treasury companies? >> I think that V3 is a pretty good product for them. It uh lets them to be very uh uh in control of their own stack. uh it will let us to be um uh able to make competitive offers uh on fees and stuff because also are customized and it will get them access to liquidity when they want it and uh they will not have to pay for liquidity when they don't want it. So uh this is a pretty uh big uh change in the u

uh available market products and they think that these are just perfect for them. >> Yeah. And I' I'd also ask uh mention to everyone I mean a lot of the people listening to this call may not be aware of V3 uh it's currently in test night stage but yeah we'll leave a link at the end of the call and I would direct anyone who isn't aware of of vaults and and how this is going to work to to have a look at that. Um let's move on to the next question. Should Lido allocate incentives or additional investment to boost SD vault adoption at this stage? Growth and user adoption should take prior priority over profitability.

On allocating incentives to boost stVault adoption

Yeah, obviously we like we have growth budget for that like the uh that's exactly for it. Uh it just like I don't think it will take a form of straight incentives. It's will be more selective uh marketing and channel partners relationship stuff. >> Yeah, makes a lot of sense. And uh yeah, I know there's been some deep debate in the YouTube comments uh about uh incentives and and how much maybe uh some protocols spend slashwaste on them. So yeah, a very conservative view is is quite a good one there. Um do we have a next question? We do. Thanks for doing this guys. Uh is that the final question? It's a cat. It's always a cat.

>> You're welcome cat. >> I guess I guess it is. Before we close, is there anything anyone would like to add? any general points? I'll take your silences. Probably not. And I'd like to thank you all for your time, for coming to answer these questions, and also for presenting. I also like to thank the uh audience for coming and for asking their questions. Um, and yeah, we will have another token holder update next quarter. These are quarterly calls.

Thank you, and till the next update!

Next month we'll have a community call with interesting guests and talks. Uh so I urge you all to join that one and yeah check out the QR codes at the end here. Scan them, check them out and uh once more thank you all for your time. Have a nice day or evening. you. Bye.