Ledger Recover and why most users do not care about self custody

Transcript

G and GN welcome to web3 Academy your one trusted source to capitalize on the next big phase of the internet don't get caught in the hype cycle I'm Jaybird joined by my co-host Kyle reidhead and we believe that self-custody is going to change the world that's why we're carving a path for doers to confidently build and invest in web 3. friends today we are building off the story that we spoke about on the roll-up last week about Ledger but we're not going to talk about the technicalities for the most part of Ledger again like we did on the roll up instead we're going to talk about self-custody and the fact that most people don't give a [ __ ] about self-custody and what this means and look I give a [ __ ] about self-crusted it

is the sole reason why I'm in the space but I think a lot of people are in this space for many different reasons and that's causing a lot of confusion a lot of Hysteria and a lot of the problems that we're seeing right now and so we wanted to have this discussion to help let people wrap their heads around why everything is always such a big deal in the space right like you do one little thing and also you have this corner of Twitter that's just losing their minds and why does it keep happening what's going on here and that's what we're gonna break down and hopefully this allows us all to just zoom out and see what's happening in this space why there's all this confusion and then maybe maybe probably not but maybe Jay we can all just get along what do you

think it's tough to get along when you're in a revolution you know because there's a battle Global communities is very tough right we're just huge they're at scale it's tough but we're not just here for the few million people that are here right now we're here for the billions of people that will be coming in and that's a big part of this conversation too lots to write down this is going to be a good one there's hysteria involved in this story there's confusion involved in this story there's one of the biggest Webster companies Ledger everybody's darling maybe not anymore there's lots to break down and we hope that this will enable

everyone to see the forest through the trees and focus on what really matters as we look to onboard the whole world to web3 in the blockchain perfect now before we get into it let's take a second just to hear from our wonderful wonderful sponsors the future of social media is here and that future lives in web 3 on top of lens protocol web 2 social platforms are broken and right for disruption you see the epicenter of social media is the creators and yet they are the most neglected web 2 platforms like Facebook Tick Tock and Instagram are all essentially robbing creators of their worth creators are a new type of entrepreneur her forming new types of businesses yet with web 2 platforms creators don't own their content to the profiles and that's their product in business instead they are

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as consensus polygon binance Unstoppable domains Ledger and uniswap will all meet up in one place this summer you don't want to miss this I'm talking about the Epic web 3 conference taking place in beautiful Lisbon on the 9th of June with over 20 curated talks speed consultations with web3 experts networking sessions with investors and even the opportunity to raise funds this conference has it all and you'll get the tools you need to succeed in this industry plus we at Webster Academy will attend it hosts a community Meetup with you in the other smart Community before the main event so come along meet us Network and start building alongside leading web 3 innovators we can't wait

to meet you remember Lisbon Portugal 9th of June we've got a 15 discount for you but ticket prices go up every few days so get your tickets today by using the link in the show notes and to the promo code web3 Academy 15 to secure your spot or if you become a pro member you can get an even bigger discount so GoPro today and we'll see you in Lisbon Portugal the 9th of June at the Epic web 3 conference okay welcome back if you listen to the roll up last week you know that ledger launched a new product a new feature called Ledger recover now one of the hardest things about onboarding into web3 and taking custody

of your assets is the management of your seed phrase this is a massive ux nightmare for new people my mom does not want to manage a seed phrase my siblings do not want to manage a proceed phrase I'm sure you feel the same with many people that you know so Ledger launched a product to solve that called Ledger recover what does Ledger recover Ledger recover is a subscription-based product that you can opt into you do not have to you can choose to opt into it and when you opt in you pay 9.99 per month and what Ledger will do is they will Shard split your private key your seed phrase

into three different segments they will encrypt each one of those segments and those segments will be held by a trusted custodian okay which actually seems to me like a very good way to have self-custody now it might not be the most furthest version of self-custody there's a lot of gray in self-custody okay this might not be the Fort Knox of self-custody but I'd say it's a improvement from the current version of self-custody and the current security that a lot of people have with their seed phrase I don't know about yukai but I've heard lots of people who manage

their seed phrases in ways that I'm like whoa that is not the most secure way you should be managing your seed phrase so in my mind hats off to Ledger for presenting what I believe is a better way especially for the new people who don't understand this but there was hysteria there was Mania there was chaos Kai I'm not as deep in Twitter as you are what was going on in the battlefields of crypto Twitter last week that led to all of this hysteria and confusion the big confusion in the biggest area was around the fact that people didn't understand that it was possible for your seed phrase to leave the device and so when people learned

that this was possible people got all up in arms and were really upset because they thought this wasn't possible it turns out it is possible now the good news is and what I think people are kind of missing the point on is that you have to consent and approve it on your device for this to happen right Ledger can't just take the seed phrase anytime they want it has to be approved on the device the same as like if you want to send a transaction right someone could ask to send a transaction that's what you do when you connect your wallet but it doesn't send unless you actually approve it on the device same sort of idea here same concept so one people are not really wrapping their heads around the fact that you just have to consent to it people are more worried about like that

it's even possible which I get it it's a cause for concern but ultimately you have to actually consent okay so you have yourself custody the security around that here's the part that I think people are not really grasping is our seed phrases leave our device all the time right when you back up your seed phrase there's many different ways to you just explained one this is a new one but when you back up your own seed phrase by writing it down on a piece of paper you have just taken your seed phrase off the device and put it onto a piece of paper right or maybe you put it into I don't know a password application whatever you've removed it from there the difference here there is no difference it's just the fact that it can be done in different ways okay so you always have been removing your seed

phrase from your device and putting on a piece of paper is not necessarily any better than encrypting it putting into three shards and having other people hold on to it right now people are up in arms again and you can think about it because we want self-custing at least when I put in a piece of paper I self-custody it okay what they're saying is what Ledger is saying is Well it's easier to just click a button pay 9.99 and now not only will we take your seed phrase but we'll Shard it into three we'll increase encrypt it and then we'll give it three others and those shards don't work unless they have at least two of them together right so it's very difficult to hack into where someone could break into your house and steal your piece of paper or you might lose it or whatever right so look there's ranges

of security here just like there is in the normal world right if I have you know a dollar I'll just put in my pocket and walk around it not that big of a deal if I 10 million dollars in cash well I probably want to put it somewhere like a vault if I have a hundred million dollars in cash I might not want to put in a vault in my house in a typical City I might want to either put it in a bank if I trust them or in a some sort of private Vault if I have a 10 billion dollars in gold I might not want to put in a bank either I might not even trust my country though onto it I might want to dig a hole get you know armed guards and play in the cave or something like you might want to do that which people

do these things are all over like the Swiss Alps and other other mounts people actually do this so there's levels of security okay now the thing that I think people can't seem to grasp in this space the people that are really really losing their minds on this one I think they just didn't quite understand it only they realized they had to opt in for this to actually happen but the second thing I think and where they're kind of losing I guess let's say they're missing the force for the trees is that you don't need Fort Knox type security to participate in web3 if you have like I said 10 billion dollars stored in crypto assets okay I understand it you might not want to opt into that you might not even want to use Ledger you might want to build your own computer and build your own software and

store it on that so that you don't even have to trust anyone at all I get that a lot of OG's in the space who are very like they don't trust the governments they don't trust companies which I get completely I don't trust them either and so they want to remove all trust 100 of it which is fine that is great for those that are here to make generational wealth and store the generational wealth you're right you should not use Ledger it is not a good product for you but that's not to say it's not a good product not every product is built for every single person right I wear a large t-shirt you might wear a small T-shirt because you're smaller than me that's okay am I mad that they're small t-shirts in this world no it's

completely fine you know what I mean like different things for different people I don't know why that's the first thing that came up but in all seriousness when we're thinking about web3 the reason why I think there's so much confusion here is there are a lot of people in this space and using blockchain for many different reasons there are a lot of people I speak to that understand web3 or they don't even call it web3 they understand blockchain as a means to separate money from the state and that's it especially you're like Bitcoin Maxes people have been in this space 2010 they don't think about what we do on ethereum they don't think about having your social media as content as an nft in your account as an nft and you know accessing communities

from nfts and having social tokens and all the fun things that we do that are revolutionizing the internet they think about revolutionizing money and when you revolutionize money you need maximum decentralization maximum security okay so you've got to understand that that's their world they don't see this other world right where this other world is sometimes you just need a little bit of Youth ten dollars worth you might want your V con ticket on there because you're going to the event this weekend or this past weekend and you might want a pro nft that is sold down that can't even get stolen from your wallet because it allows you getting our Discord to chat with Jay and I these are just experiences on the Internet or maybe it allows you to unlock your favorite Adidas shoe there is an internet Revolution happening and there is a

money Revolution happening very very different people very very different needs for those people and so what I'm trying to explain here is that you don't need 100 trustless decentralization maximum security for your assets if you're doing the side of the spectrum that is like I'm playing around with some stuff in web 3 right now you still want self-customed we'll get to that in just a second but you don't need the Fort Knox security for that just like you don't if you have ten dollars you can put in your pocket that's fine for you right and so I think what's happening is there's people in the space for different reasons at different spectrums of what they're doing whether it's from money it's for like Finance or it's for just like

gaming or it's for whatever else we do in the internet this weird stuff and they different services and different products and Ledger is trying to offer different products for different people which is great right like you said Jay in the beginning our parents and our friends who don't know about this stuff they're not going to do the Fort Knox of security just never they just won't do it okay and that's okay that they won't do it that's just not what they care about but you know what I care about my friends and family and I want to make sure they at least have decentralized assets assets that are outside of the government outside of the FED because if they inflate those currencies away which I believe they will I would like to make sure they have a safety net right I also

want them to be able to participate in web 3 and do fun things Etc et cetera now they can't do that if they have to build their own computer and write their own operating system to store these assets they can't do that if they have to have a ledger or a Treasurer that they have to write down these seed phrases and put in a vault they're just not going to do those things and so Ledger is building products for the other end of the Spectrum which is great you know what I mean at least they have self-custody at least they are out of the system at least they are using assets that are either money or it's an nft for Community Access whatever that they can custody themselves now is the security perfect no but it's pretty damn good and much better than what most people are

currently doing and so I think these are services and products that are needed for a subgroup of people in that subgroup in my opinion just happens to be very very very large any other thoughts of that Jr what do you think yeah I think great job of breaking down there is different user personas and when you have different user personas they have different needs and they also have different levels of security different levels of trust that they're willing to accept and different levels of self-custody that they want to achieve and I think that something is really important for everybody to grasp is those of us that are in web 3 right now we value the ethos of web3 that is

why we're in the space we value decentralization we value self-custody we value trustlessness we value composability and interoperability those who are not in the space they don't value those things yet now they might value those things if we educate them and teach them and that's why you and I do what we do every day Kai because we want to teach more people about self-custody we want to teach more people about trustless software and trustless Technology because most people don't even know what the [ __ ] trustless means right now what I find so interesting about this is here's the big signal that happened to me when this all

went down people in this space really care about Ledger that was the big signal to me people don't get heated when something happens about a company that they don't use or they don't care about right but people care about Ledger because Ledger is they're a leader in the space most of us use Ledger as our Hardware wallets Ledger has been sponsors of most major events most major podcasts we've had them on our podcast so we all have a lot of trust in Ledger we all have a social trust in Ledger that they are doing what is right for us and doing what is right for the space moving forward and quite frankly did not do the greatest job of communicating

this new product launch which they have said and they have learned from and hopefully will do better in the future but when they announce this and people were surprised by this announcement because they didn't understand it as you said I didn't take the time to understand it they just freaked out and said whoa I trusted Ledger and now you're telling me something that goes against the trust that I put in you and that led to this big freak out which to me again I actually really think this is a good thing for Ledger this shows how much people in the space care about Ledger which to me again good signal yeah and I think we should clarify one thing so a lot of people listen to this

especially if they've been around for a long time they're like okay these guys don't get it if it's not fully decentralized it was not fully Stressless if you don't have self-custody then it's not web3 it's just web 2 dressed up like web3 which is true to the extent so the one thing that all of these have in common whether you are a maxi over here on the money side and you don't care about ethereum and web3 and revolutionizing the internet or you're on this side where you're like yeah I want to revolutionize the internet I want to make sure that we store our own data and companies don't store our data Etc and like maybe the money thing doesn't matter or maybe you're in between and you like both the thing we all have in common is self-custody right because self-custody means that the bank the company the

whoever can't rug you right they can't take it away from you and so again whether using a hardware wallet whatever you're using that's the key thing that is the ethos of this entire space so Celsius for example we had to trust them and they could rug us they did rug us right FTX they rugged us they had the ability to the thing to understand with Ledger is they don't have the ability to rug us you have to consent for it in order for them to rug us right and even the thing you're consending for they can't rug someone might be able to hack it but that's different than rugging they can't just decide that they can take that seat braces not possible right so it is what we like to call unruggable

technology that's the idea so again it's not perfect but it's better than zero and right now you understand that 99.9 of the world is on zero self-custody zero percent all of their data is being cussing by someone else everything they do in the internet is being customed by someone else all of their money is being custody by a bank so they are zero which means they are very very vulnerable now those that were yelling and screaming are probably on the other side of it a hundred percent self-custody okay they are on the very very other of the spectrum except they would argue that they are also Hypocrites because they're arguing and yelling on Twitter which means that currently they are not cussing their data in their content right so they're actually giving up and I guarantee all those people have Banks

and credit cards and all the other things right so they are not perfect either okay and I actually bet a lot of them probably were using things like FTX Etc now what I'm getting at is when we onboard the next billion two billion three billion five billion people into this space yes we want them all to get self-custody whether they know it or they don't know it I don't really care I just want to make sure that they have it right people on Reddit that have these red avatars are self-custing their Reddit avatars they don't even know it those playing in Starbucks on Odyssey are self-custing their own points or rewards whatever you want to call them and they don't even know it if Starbucks went down yes those things would probably be not worth anything because they're tied to a brand but they still

own those assets so you tear that forward to anything on the internet that's very valuable but these people don't even know it now those they're self-crusting right now is the Securities for them perfect all these things like no it's definitely not but at least they self-custing so at least those assets in their data is theirs right so the big thing I think this industry needs to wrap their head around is there is a spectrum and if we are going to get people to onboard into the space we are not going to succeed if we take them from 0 to 100 because people won't cross that line they won't do it and the bitcoiners of this world always say this gradually and then suddenly that's what we need to do for adoption and when I say adoption I don't mean a

bunch of people using jpegs blah blah adoption to me is self-custody I care about self-custing that's it right every time I do a presentation or talk somewhere all I do is talk about how the internet is changing money is changing because of self-custody that is the number one feature and the only thing that matters self Cassie is what gives us interoperability okay self-cussy is what gives us digital ownership and digital rights it's all about self-custody but the security around that self-custody is not always going to be 100 and so we need to bring people from zero to 50 or even 25 right which is what Reddit is doing let's say though Reddit is still pretty good you still self-custody right but you get them there and that's great imagine we can get everyone in the world to be at 50

and all their money is there and all their internet data is there that would be a massive success they're not at a hundred but they're 50 50 of security around their own self-custing they still self-custody it's the security around that which is the Spectrum right that's what matters so this is the thing that I think people can't necessarily wrap their head around yet and is the problem because the more we yell and scream about these new features that aren't perfect security the more we scare people away and we Stipe renovation I don't think Ledger is going to get canceled here I think they're going to be completely fine but imagine that these people were so loud that they actually ran Ledger out of business and so now we don't have an option for the 6 billion no 8 billion

people in the world who don't know or care about self-custody right they don't have an option now what are we going to do keep stopping that Innovation and keep not allowing them to come in because it's not fully perfect that makes no sense that's not how this stuff works right and so people gotta zoom out and they need to get out of their own way I guess adoption of the stuff is really good and look a lot of these people earn it for money it's really good for their bags you know what I mean look if a lot of people come in at 50 security for the self-custody this industry 100 X's which means we can get the Innovation around the technology to make a hundred percent security very easy right we're not there yet the tech stack is not there Ledger is doing a

great job at building multiple products for multiple levels that's perfect but then you also see these people yelling and going well Ledger also stores your data on centralized servers and and like so when you buy a ledger they might leak that information and blah blah blah and it's like guys we haven't solved every problem yet right this stuff is still new give me time at least they're solving self-custody which is the number one thing sure we still have to buy them with a credit card and they're going to store that data in their server but so is everything else you bought right every time you go on Amazon every time you go to the grocery store like you're doing this on everything else so like the one thing that is actually helping this space the one thing that's actually helping your big mission of self-custody

and and all this stuff you're gonna cry and yell and make people not buy that but you're gonna let them go to Amazon and buy a t-shirt but not self-custody their data and that like you got it backwards support the one thing that is literally supporting the one thing you care about that's the thing that people can't seem to wrap their head around and it just blows my mind there's a choice that we all have with with any new technology with any Revolution with the creation of any new form of money or the internet is we have to choose adoption and we have to choose this perfect principle value ethos based mindset right and we cannot have

adoption if we angle towards this principle values to the end over adoption above all else if that was the case then most a lot of people would not accept using your credit card to buy things in web3 but we need that that is a very simple thing that we all have to accept we need Moon pay we need simple ways to purchase digital products which you now own and by owning digital products you can experience self-custody you can experience interoperability and by experiencing those things you start to learn about those things and then you go further down the Spectrum further

down the path towards the level that you are comfortable with and not everybody is comfortable in the beginning and these people that are yelling and screaming gotta understand that when they got into Bitcoin 10 years ago the only way that they held that Bitcoin was a centralized exchange they only use centralized ways because the technology wasn't there right and so they used Mount gox now they got screwed on that so that sucks again that's fully centralized there was Zero self-custody there they were on zero of the spectrum right and that sucks and we're not supporting that what Ledger's doing is not zero on the Spectrum it is still self-custody just not a hundred percent on the spectrum of security around that self-custody right it is a big big big massive difference versus what FTX is in

Mount gox was but again just like Bitcoin is you used to just have to use that because that was the best thing and that ux was terrible you had to like call or email someone in Japan and then send them like wild okay wild what they went through but you gotta understand you really care about this stuff most people they'll never care about this stuff and so they're not going to go through those things they're not going to go through those Hoops like you went through and like look me I care about this stuff am I going to use Ledger recover no probably not okay actually definitely not because I understand how to self-custody at and not even 100 I don't know how to build my own computer and write my own code but let's say 75 right I know how to write it down on a

seed phrase on a piece of paper sorry and put in a vault I definitely do that okay now my parents think I'm weird because a bunch of piece of paper stored in a vault in the basement but hey is what it is right my parents aren't gonna do that so I would do that but you know what I won't use recover but I will recommend it for a lot of people 100 because if my dad has a bunch of saving my dad actually has some Bitcoin now I self-custed for him but if he had to self-cust himself I wouldn't want him to put it on you know coinbase or binance or something I'd want him to put it on a ledger but I don't want him to hold a piece of paper somewhere because he's gonna lose it because he's 75 and he forgets everything right he won't

know where that thing went so I would much rather have it encrypted and sharded and have some other people hold it for him do you know what I mean so like gives and takes for certain people and that's okay that's fine because it gradually moves them along yeah I think that there's a lot of people who went through a lot of challenge to get where we are here as you said you know kai for yourself you believe in self-custody partly because you got rugged by Facebook what five years ago or something like that you had a business you built a business on Facebook and one day you woke up and it was completely rubbed from you so that experience makes mark that experience makes you care more about self-custody right and we're not

saying that everybody shouldn't care about self-custody we believe as you said Kai we believe in teaching the world about self-custody we believe in self-sovereignty we believe in teaching everybody about the opportunity that blockchain enables but we also believe in adoption and we also know that you have to walk before you can run and you can't expect the 99 of the world that is not currently in this space to all of a sudden jump in and take all these groups in these steps because we say that crypto's great and everybody should do it no they need simple ways to get in

and Ledger is doing that and I think that's what's impressive now one more thing I just want to add here is there's also a lot of people that have been saying well why didn't you just make a new product Ledger like why release this on our existing Hardware with this firmware update well why don't you just say okay there's this new product over here that's for the newbies and that's the one that we're going to release Ledger recover on versus my existing Ledger will never have this here's the thing I think this is a moment where we all didn't understand the tech we all have to look ourselves in the mirror and say oh [ __ ] I'm not as smart as I thought I was and we did not understand how Hardware wallets actually work and

the way I'm not going to get into it there's a bunch of podcasts a great podcast on Bank list that actually has a great diagram if you watch it on YouTube that breaks down the way a hardware wallet works but here's the truth we just learned the way Hardware wallets work Ledger taught us something that we didn't really quite understand and it took this moment for us all to understand it so we actually don't need these two separate products one that is for the newbies and one that's not because it doesn't make any difference I just want to say one thing to those that were screaming yelling I think it's great that they are trying to protect us from custodial Services right I think they are right in doing such a thing we need to fight because I mean look at how

many people lost money in FTX Celsius Voyager et cetera right this is the problem and Banks and Etc this is the problem with custodial Services I get that they are right to question but the thing is like you just said they need to actually learn because a lot of them are yelling and don't understand what's going on if Ledger actually was just like hey pay 9.99 and we will custody your assets for you right or we will literally upload your seed phrase to like past camp and cuss you that for you or put in our own database in a centralized database that would be very bad and that deserves hate in canceling right because that is just web 2 that is not what we want to see this is

different right this is not the same thing they cannot just rug you they are doing this in a very secure manner that still promotes and provides self-custody they're not just Loosely uploading your seed phrase to the internet that would be stupid this is the thing that I said when I first read this I obviously didn't know either right just everyone else who's screaming but I just thought why would they do that that makes no sense your business would be zero you know what I mean like they would ruin everything think for a second it's a business why would they do that to their own company they wouldn't you gotta be a bit rational here and not just lose your mind on something you read on Twitter once and go let me think a little bit further here does that really make sense

but it's these Twitter Echo Chambers where people just like they see one thing and it's as easy as retweeting or you know typing out with your fingers while you're maybe a little bit buzzed or something and that stuff just goes and goes and goes so anyway that's sort of my final little take on that is Ledger's not doing anything that's just outrageous if they were I would also be you know up in arms because we need to protect ourselves from these custodial Services we just saw in the last year how bad that is this is not what Ledger is doing so hopefully you will educate yourself and understand that there are risks it is not completely trustless both the custodial service or not custodial service sorry but the backup service that they are providing and just using it Ledger in general and then thus take

that farther using every single wallet that is created by a company in general there is some form of trust there okay I didn't know that either I know that now but I'm okay with that part I still self-casting my assets I understand what's going on here that's okay if it was like giving it to a company to just hold my assets I'm not down with that [ __ ] that you know what I mean there's a big difference and it's it's hard it's hard even for me it's hard to understand those differences they are small they are hard to see a lot of people don't even get self-custy every time I go to a conference and it's just speaking self-custody they're like I don't know what that is they have to go back to the basis of even explain what self-custody so like I get why this is

very very challenging right it's complicated stuff the title of this episode is most people don't give a [ __ ] about self-custody right now that is the case and when we say most people we don't mean most people in web3 we don't even mean most people listen to this podcast if you're listen to this podcast you do give a [ __ ] about self-custody like uh maybe right hopefully maybe I hope you do if you're not in web 3 you don't give a [ __ ] about self-custody because like I said you actually don't even understand self-custody you don't even know what that means because you've never experienced it before in your life because our current system does not have that opportunity it wasn't until blockchain that we had this opportunity and just because you have learned about self-custody and just because you

understand it doesn't mean that everyone else does so take a deep breath take the time to understand that if we're going to achieve adoption we need to consider different user personas and we need to create adoption steps and adoption products and features that are right for everybody because as Kai said at the beginning there's a spectrum and getting somebody 25 is better than getting them zero because you don't go to 100 off of that I've never seen that happen Nothing in life works that way I'm about to have a kid my kid's not gonna so to start running he's gonna crawl and walk first right that's much better than the T-shirt example you're not having the kids so whatever

the more or less the moral story is if it's not just because it's not right for you doesn't mean it's not right for others I'll let you wrap it up Jay go for it I'm gonna rap with take a deep breath and do your own research and make sure you understand before you scream and go to the battlefield and cause a Ruckus and also as Kai said understand other people's views as well and what other people need maybe what you need is not what everyone needs actually quick point that I forgot we didn't mention in this service Kai don't they insure 50 up to fifty thousand dollars yeah they do I'm not sure the exact like policies around it but yeah if you lose 50 000 or

anything below 50 000 you get it recovered well most people aren't going to have over 50 000. especially and again this is why people understand there's a difference here here there is many more use cases to blockchain than what we're used to than what there used to be five years ago or ten years ago right again if you're playing a video game and you need to use a skin in there you want to self-crust that skin because whatever game might rug you great and then also now it's protected and insured by Ledger through their fifty thousand so like that makes so much sense [ __ ] even if it was a custodial service it makes sense this is why you if as long as you're 250 000 or less in the US and you put your money in a bank you're covered great you know they're doing

this and giving you self-custody pretty great sounds like the perfect product so that's a good point I forgot about that one yeah I think that one of the big reasons why people either don't come into the space or leave the space is because of a lot of fear right there's a lot of fear around well self-custity is difficult and sure there's a lot of benefits to it but you could if you [ __ ] it up you could lose it all right well as Kai said for a lot of people it's going to be less than 50 000 that they have and now you're protected we should be [ __ ] celebrating that that is huge that that is available in that was a service great episode Kai thanks thanks for all your thoughts as always we want to know what

you think about Ledger recover there's a question in the show if you're listening to the podcast on Spotify scroll down and let us know if you will use Ledger recover if you would recommend it we're curious to hear your thoughts if you want to take your thoughts even further join us in our Discord where we'll be discussing and breaking down the podcast as we do every podcast otherwise be well on the battlefield to your hook and be kind to each other because we're gonna make it together we don't need to rip each other's head off along the way Ledger thanks for all you're doing we respect and love you guys even though you might have had a little bit of a communication error we still believe in you have a great week everybody thank you for listening to web3 Academy we

hope this helps you along your web 3 journey and if it does please share this episode And subscribe so you don't miss the next one nothing in this podcast was Financial advice crypto and web 3 can be risky you can literally lose it all in fact if you invest on account of what we say you probably will lose it all so don't do that in all honesty the point of this podcast is to remove the noise of markets and price and focus on utility implementation anyway so you should not take any of this as Financial advice thank you friends and see you in the next one