Layer 2 growth, Solo staking chat and more - The Daily Gwei Refuel #761 - Ethereum Updates

Transcript

hello everyone welcome to another episode of theway refuel where up latest news in etherum ecosystem I'm your host and the 8th of April 2024 all right everyone let's get into it so a little bit light on content today because I did do a Saturday episode which obviously covered the news from Friday uh there so I've only really got the news from kind of yesterday to cover but there are a bunch of things that I want to talk about uh and first things first I received my physical addition of this eth investors Club report that I've talked about on the refu before and it just looks awesome I mean you can see in the screenshot in front of me or the picture in front of me of it I actually have it sitting next to me on the left hand side here on uh on my desk and I've

also got the normal Edition as well so there was a founded Edition physical uh kind of Edition that you could redeem if you bought the nft and then there was a um a normal Edition here and I I I managed to get my hands on both of them there now I do want to reiterate that this actual report is free to read online at eth investors club.com it is not a paid report you do not need to buy the physical Edition you can read it for free online uh and I think the physical Edition is pretty much sold out at this point as well I remember I highlighted this for you guys on the refill so hopefully some of you got your hands on it before it sold out but at the same time uh it wasn't just the physical Edition you got by buying these nfts you

also uh got the the perks listed here which you can find at the eth investors club.com website there um and I should disclose here that I'm an adviser to the eth investors Club effort but uh all of the I guess money I would have made as an advisor is just getting donated to the protocol Guild so I've forgone any kind of like compensation here but the reason why I joined on as an advisor because I've wanted something like this to exist for a very long time you know a really comprehensive report on the state of the ethereum ecosystem put out once a quarter by people who actually know what they're talking about not by like the talking heads that you see on on crypto Twitter who have most of the time have no idea what they're talking about uh these are people that are in the

ecosystem that are in the industry that know what they're talking about and they put this report together and it's it's really a great read I mean I've gotten through I think most of it at this point uh and it's just a really really great read so shout out to all the contributors uh as well which I listed at the bottom of the website there and you can see my little ugly mug at the bottom too with with a quote about how I always wanted something like this to exist so yeah as I said you can go read it at eth investors club.com as it's free to read uh you do not need to buy the physical Edition but I I do like that there's a physical Edition because I really hope to kind of collect these as each quarter goes on and have a nice

little uh kind of physical collection there you guys know I like my physical Collectibles more than my dig digital ones so yeah that one there so I just wanted to give a shout out again to the eth investors Club effort go check that out we'll link it in the YouTube description below for you to do so all right so obal has announced that obal DV clusters are ready to be activated in the in Lido's simple DVT module on ethereum mainnet pending e deposits so I believe this is the first big instantiation of DVT on the ethereum main net there is kind of DVT clusters running right now uh more like so kind of like hobbyists and I guess like a bunch of test clusters I'm I'm part of one of them uh basically trial clusters I should say I've been part of that for

for a long time now but this is I guess the first foray of Obel into a big staking pool on etherum obviously ligher is still the biggest staking pool in ethereum so it's great to see that they've gotten to uh you know to this point they they put it together Twitter thread here going through the fact that this has been a 2 and a half year journey to get to this point and I should disclose here I an investor in obal but you know I mean I invested in them a long time ago now this project has been around for ages I mean if I go and kind of see when I invested in them on my kind of spreadsheet here was all the way back in October of 2021 so you know we're coming up on on three years this year obviously it's been two and a

half years here uh but they've kind of built this back when I guess like staking was so small guys like staking back in October 2021 was still tiny compared to what it is today there was no raking you know any liquid staking that was being done was really just being done through Lio the merge hadn't happened yet so it was really just the beacon chain uh that was live the previous steak Beacon chain as as a separate Network obviously the merge didn't happen until a year after that and we didn't really kind of know like unless you had the vision for it where ethereum staking would go uh and I believed you know at the time as I still do today when I invested in obal that DVT technology would uh would definitely play a huge role in ethereum staking and I'm glad to see that we've already had

you know a bunch of clusters live on mainnet but now they're integrating the technology with the bigger players out there which obviously counts for probably a bit more because of the fact that the these bigger players account for you know such large market share on the network but it's great to see that DV enables things like Squad staking where essentially you can get together with 10 people uh total you can all put up 3.28 each and then you all get to run the validators yourselves you all get to run the full nodes and validators uh yourselves as part of that cluster now I know that super Fizz has run one of those clusters I'm sure there's a few others out there but I don't know of them off top of my head the cluster I'm a part of has four people in it um and

we didn't put up the eth ourselves the oal team did because as I said it was part of the kind of I guess like first bunch of clusters on mainnet but we've been running the software I've been running the validators on my solo staking box uh alongside my solo validators uh and it has been running just fine with a few hiccups here and there given that it was part of like a trial run we work through those uh the obal software stack is very simple now has been kind of worked on for you know these 2 and a half years here and they've tried to make it as simple as possible there but yeah kudos to them on getting this integration over the line and I can't wait to see obal DVT clusters start kind of spinning up as part of uh the lighter pool

here all right so speaking of Stak there is a new farcaster channel called stake from home that I saw superf talking about uh and but it's it's also hosted by a couple of other people here so I just wanted to highlight this because you can go check this out for yourself and follow this channel on farcaster it has a lot of really awesome posts from everyone that is kind of like solo staking on the ethereum network here and you can actually see what their setups look like so obviously you can see mine here mine uh you know this is one of my boxes this is the Proteus device that um that Joe from Rocka poool made and you know custom made for a bunch bunch of people out there it did come pre-loaded with Rocka pool software but I basically reimaged it and put a

bunch of solo validators on there you know fun fact as I said in the cast here uh this little box runs all of my validators that are part of my retirement account so my retirement account is 100% e right now like every scent of that is in eth and most of that eth is staked unfortunately there is some eth left over and that I can't get to 32 eth in order to spin up another validator but in the world of Max EB that won't be an issue anymore so I'm looking forward to that of course uh but yeah that's what this box runs whereas I have my other boxes as well I mean I have my Rocka pool box which is separate uh which runs my rocket pool validators I have my archive node box which runs an archive node and then I I have my solo

staking box which runs my solo staking validators of course um but that that's just my setup as I said you can see everyone else's setups that I've posted here in the Stak from home Channel It's relatively new I believe this channel so there's not you know hundreds of kind of posts yet but there are you know a healthy amount which I like to see and I'm hoping that the steak from home channel can actually be a um be a nice little home for people who essentially want to you know get started taking from home or want help with their setups or want ideas about their setups and I'm really hoping to see this channel take off here so I just wanted to highlight it for you guys you can go check it out I'll link the channel in the YouTube description below and uh just a reminder

guys if you're not on farcaster yet definitely get on there I mean the kind of community keeps growing not just within the ethereum side of things but just across the whole kind of spectrum here uh and it's only going to get bigger from here I do believe that farcaster has now kind of set has now gotten to the point where essentially it has you know way more of a chance of succeeding than failing you know there's always that kind of inflection point when you start a company or start a startup where you have to get your first initial customers and get product Market fit well I think the farcaster has at this point achieved product Market fit and has a very loyal base of people that want to stay on there that want to keep growing it they want to be part of uh you know something like farcaster

especially in the face of Twitter basically degrading over the past couple of years in in its experience there even though people still use Twitter I mean I use Twitter and faras are basically equal amounts these days because of the fact there's still a lot happening on Twitter so there's the thing you can still use both there's no need to just give up Twitter and come to fast I mean you know by all means you can do that uh but you can still use both and a lot of the time people will cross poost between uh uh you know the two channels that's what I try to do between Twitter and and farcaster here but at the same time there is a lot of stuff still happening on either platform that isn't on the others there so it is definitely necessary to use them right now but

faster goes beyond just being kind of like a Twitter kind of alternative I guess you could say I wouldn't call it a clone it's an alternative it goes way beyond that because of all the web 3 native features you know not just the the the the kind of stuff like channels which aren't actually part of the farcast the core protocol yet they're actually just part of warcast uh the client um but things like the Integrations with the you know the frame stuff the nft stuff the stuff like you know I showed I think this a few weeks ago I showed that there's a way to do like a whole Shopify experience within a farcaster frame like you know stuff like that basically being able to Mint nfts directly in your farter feed you know that stuff is not available on Twitter and it's highly unlikely that it is

going to be available on Twitter um but I guess it's available on farcaster because farcaster is first and foremost a crypto native platform but obviously they want to grow it further and further from there but for now it is pretty much like I'm going to say 99% of it is crypto to be honest but that's fine those are the first users those are the first kind of people getting on there and making it uh what it is and growing it from there so yeah just a shout out there go follow the steak from home farcaster Channel if you're interested in that sort of stuff but also if you're not on farcaster yet highly recommend getting on there if you haven't all right so I put out this cast uh today where I said that EIP 4844 blobs has been such a blessing for ethereum when it really needed it most we're

going to onboard the world to ethereum I and I couldn't be more excited and this was basically spurred off of a comment that I made in the de Discord Channel where I said that 4844 or blobs I should just refer to it as blobs came at like the perfect time right guys like if you actually notice all that's happened in the last what month you know hasn't even been a month yet since blobs went live essentially what we had is a very big shift in narrative from ethereum can't scale layer 2 is a garbage layer 2 is are too expensive you know how's ethereum ever going to scale so on and so forth uh to oh wow ethereum can scale oh wow these things are cheap oh wow the experience is actually really good oh W the concerns around liquidity fragmentation you know are overblown and

so on and so forth and I'm going to talk a bit more about liquidity fragmentation at the end of the episode but that's kind of what I've seen happen over the past I mean as I said it's not hasn't even been a month yet and obviously uh you know it's also kind of I guess helped the narrative that uh salana for example is undergoing uh I guess you could call them growing pains right now where essentially their network is getting uh spammed and the user experience has degraded a lot and I think that there are you know fixers coming for that they've talked about these fixes that they're going to do in these these patches that they want to put in place but from everything I've seen it's a much more fundamental issue than that it's based on the way that salana is architected architected as a

network which means that it's going to take longer to fix than people would like whereas on the flip side of things we just did a massive upgrade to ethereum l2s and they're puttering along just fine but I'm not going to compare the two just yet obviously a lot of the ethereum l2s are very centralized right now uh they still have their training wheels on they're at stage zero I mean Bas for example one of the um the al2s have taken off a lot recently has no fraud proofs because it's part of the op stack yet I mean it will once it goes live on once the op stack gets there fraud proofs uh hopefully soon but yeah I'm not going to Sugar Code it and say that they're you know they're decentralized or anything like that they're definitely not right now but I just think that from a narrative point

of view and from like a sentiment point of view towards ethereum uh blobs went live at the perfect time and it's great to see that costs have remained relatively low as well I mean they haven't been as low as when blobs first went live but they're still very very low compared to what they were I mean there's still a 90 plus% reduction compared to what they were and also the layer tws themselves are full steam ahead working on scaling their own execution up bases obviously doing a lot and I've highlighted that but so it's arbitrum with stylus the other L2 ecosystems are doing it um and in their own different ways there so yeah I mean as I've said plenty of times before we are definitely in the Golden Age of ethereum scalability here and the timing has just worked out so well especially because you know if the market keeps

going from where it is now we're we're entering the I guess like beginnings of the late stages of the bull market I would say and these stages could last you know 6 months from here or something like that it could even last longer than that but the way I kind of Define it is that in the later stages of the bull market you basically get a smaller multiple on uh you know on on kind of like a lot of the assets that have already gone up a lot but but you have like a massive influx of of of these new people that come in and they tend to just buy anything basically based on whatever they say you know on YouTube on Tik Tok elsewhere and that's why you'll see the whole Market going up together I remember the other day when I got a lot

of from people basically saying that I don't really believe that there's any you know big wave of net new money coming in just yet when I put out that tweet um and basically what I believe is that it's just crypto Natives and I mean it's still that but we're getting to the point now where we're going to start seeing you know this this influx because BTC is going to be hitting new alltime highs every day soon uh and then eth is going to be hitting its all-time high soon and that's going to bring media medor attention in and where do you think a lot of these people are going well they're going to coinbase okay where do you think coinbase is going to push these people they're going to push them on chain they're going to push them to base and base is right now you know

one of the fastest growing l2s I mean I think it is the fastest growing L2 and obviously the fact that people are going to be pushed the base means it's going to keep growing from here so I do think that l2s are going to be up only from here and as I said the timing around blobs going live has been just perfect we couldn't have timed it better really at the end of the day uh but it's been been great to see that there but speaking of bass as well I did want to mention here uh you know talk a little bit about their growth I know I've talked about them a lot recently but I and and I haven't really talked about the other l2s that much recently um but it's simply because bass is just grown so much I mean obviously you see people

talking about it on Twitter you know and you see people kind of coping about it saying that it's a coordinated push or a coordinated marketing effort which is so bizarre to me that people say that but I guess that's how people cope when uh when things that are growing that they thought weren't going to grow um but bass has definitely been growing at a you know a pace I guess faster than all the other l2s right now but in saying that you know if you go to l2b and look at the kind of uh growth here uh arbitrum has been dominant for so long guys like I think people forget that yes Bas is going through a you know huge amount of growth right now but that's because they're starting from a very kind of I guess like low Bas and pardon the pun right they're starting from

basically zero and also they launched a lot later than Arbitron 1 did as well and op Main it did um and and others out here but there's no denying their growth of course but when it comes to arbitrum they've had such a very such a healthy and sustainable ecosystem for such a long time now I mean I remember back when arbitrum did their token drop uh the AR drop everyone was like ah you know everyone was only using arbitrum because they're farming a token so they're going to you know go off arbitrum and go somewhere else now and that didn't materialize at all arbitrum just kept growing and I you know it's a huge kudos to the efforts from offchain labs and the arbitrum community r large there but like it always funny it's it's always funny to me when people say these things it's like why would people Bridge

off of arbitrum one when there are things to do on there and you can do them with cheaper fees like it's always kind of funny when when people say that because they're basically saying that in the hopes that that's going to happen and it's just a narrative they are pushing whereas reality uh you know when reality meets narrative The Narrative crumbles and that's going back to what I said earlier about the fact that some of these other ecosystems out there these other L1 ecosystems out there well all of them pretty much they make all these grandiose Promises of what they can do and to be fair ethereum did this once upon a time I think ethereum is very guilty of this in the early days of like 2016 2017 maybe even as early as 2015 of over promising and under delivering but when it comes to the ecosystem at large

and especially with these other layer ones like every single project does this they overpromise and then they underd deliver like that's a theme within crypto is that like all the projects do this and it's because there's a financial incentive to do this your project will be rewarded you know with a lot of kind of market cap so to speak even if the project has basically no fundamentals behind it nothing behind it no usage nothing and I think the the most obvious example of this uh is is things like uh uh you know cardano for example I mean I remember cardano in the last bll Market went absolutely nuts and there was no one basically using the chain because there was no freaking smart contracts to use the chain so essentially you had the market rewarding The Narrative rewarding the promises and then as soon as smart contracts went

live that was the top on adah on cardano back then so the reality sets in and then people realiz realiz that oh okay you know everything's not just going to automatically port to cardo when they have Smart contracts live oh it turns out cardano is not actually that good and not that scalable and everything that Charles hodkinson has been saying on his uh Vlogs on his YouTube channel you know is actually just him dreaming up things that aren't even reality so that's what I mean by the fact that the crypto ecosystem overpromises and underd delivers because it gets rewarded for that you make a lot of money doing that and we've seen this time and time and time again across pretty much like every project within crypto and as I said ethereum Is Not Innocent here but I think that ethereum and the ethereum ecosystem uh if we're talking about like

ethereum and l2s um they tend to not overpromise too much some of them will you know here and there but not that much these days right maybe in the earlier days as I said they did but these days it seems that at least at least I try to do this is that we under promise and overd deliver that is what you should be doing you shouldn't be hyping things up but I understand why people hype them up it's because there's a monetary incentive attached to it and it works like that's the thing if it didn't work people wouldn't do it but it works it works every cycle and it doesn't just work it works absolute wonders to basically pump up this Vapor wear this stuff that makes no sense being worth tens of billions hundreds of billions of dollars uh and then people bid it up there and then if you're you

know in the know you know that this is kind of like uh quicksand essentially where uh once the you know these retail Normy investors go once the bare Market hits these thing is just going to fall apart then that's when you kind of start selling out right because you know the game essentially and this happens across you know so many projects I mean I didn't mean to pick on cardano but I think that was just a perfect example for those of you who had been around last cycle you know what that looked like I mean I remember just the crazy runup it had because it was so much hype about cardano getting smart contracts like seven years after ethereum had them mind you uh but then you can go look at the chart when they launched smart contracts uh the the chart topped uh the

the price stopped and then I remember reading comments on Reddit from people being like oh why can't I do this transaction or why is it only like one TPS and then people were like well this is how it works this is the euto model that cardano is using uh and this is why it is this way and everyone's like what I was promised something else like yes you were promised something else because the narrative is always uh able to be kind of like shielded when there's no reality to break it away but as soon as reality comes into it you can't ignore the reality anymore and I talk about this so much on the refuel guys and I think it just keeps coming true more and more true every single day where where essentially as soon as narrative meets reality it cannot be a narrative anymore

it crumbles and that is I guess like true bad narrative for good narratives and everything in between there but enough on that kind of stuff there I just wanted to point out that not only bass has been growing but like all the l2s have just been growing we had that economic stimulus package as I like to call it with EIP 4844 and it got delivered at the perfect time there now to wrap up today's episode I did say I wanted to have a discussion around this kind of I guess I'm not going to call it a narrative but like this concept of liquidity fragmentation that has uh kind of been a talking point for many many months now among both you know people who like ethereum l2s and people who don't like ethereum l2s so I started off you know I put a tweet out where I said

the l2s that create liquidity fragmentation and I called it a narrative F because it is a narrative um has always been very weird to me every chain is siloed off from every other chain if you want to do something on ethereum L1 and you're on a different L1 you have to bridge there is no way around this so let's expand on that point let's say for example you're on salana you have some funds on there and you're like oh I want to go use this app that's on ethereum maybe want to go use Unis swap right on ethereum whether that be at layer one or layer 2 well you are fragmented from that your liquidity is now fragmented from that ecosystem because it exists on a different chain so you either have to bridge to ethereum L1 or L2 so the point of that point I

guess is that it this liquidity fragmentation doesn't just exist for l2s it exists for every single chain out there and what is amazing to me is that you know this isn't obviously the perfect world that we want to live in where people want you know one single unified layer that we can do everything on but it is the reality of what we live in ethereum is not trying to build for a world that they think should exist and you know we're trying to build for a world that already exists and the world that already exists is a multi-chain fragmented ecosystem that is how it exists but at the same time we should be building better ways to you know uh I guess like re I don't going to say recentralize the liquidity but like bring it together right defragment that liquidity and we are like I've sped

about it before we have uh you know things like the AG lay coming we have things like uh uh shared sequencing we have things like pre-confirmation and we can do those things in a much safer and much easier way with l2s because as I said on my tweet here doing in interoperability between layers that share the same root of trust AKA L2 settling down to ethereum L1 is much easier and much safer than trying to do interoperability between different roots of trust AKA different outlayer ones ethereum is working towards this with the aforementioned things I just talked about there and I want to expand on this point a little bit here because you may be confused why it's and safer because of the fact that because the uh the settlement is happening on the same layer on the same ethereum L1 layer here

for these l2s you don't have risks like RoR risks besides the ethereum L1 Rog risk and that's a big one because for example let's say that you want to do interoperability between Bitcoin L1 ethereum L1 and salana now let's say you want to build an interoperable Bridge uh between them like that is fully composable that is atomic not these bridges that we have that are kind of crypto economically secured and you have to like wait I'm talking like and it's not they're kind of like they're not really uh interoperable like the way I'm talking about it right now they're not really composable they're not Atomic but if you wanted to do that you would basically have to to be safe wait for Bitcoin because you have to wait for the slowest block so Bitcoin has on average

10 minute block times ethereum has 12C slot times with the block being in that slot and then salana has 400 millisecond kind of block times there that's just the first issue right is that you have to wait for Bitcoin because essentially uh if you don't wait for Bitcoin if you initiate a transaction that involves Bitcoin and it gets Reed on ethereum L1 well then you have a problem now on bitcoin and now that hasn't uh that hasn't been settled basically so essentially what you have is different trust assumptions here and different kind of settlement guarantees between these different layers on top of that you have different architect architectures Bitcoin and ethereum have a mempool salana doesn't right so there's all these things that go into it because you're now relying on different roots of trust you're relying on different kind of I guess like areas of

of protocol rules and maybe an analogy here is something like if you want to interoperate between the US China and Australia I added Australia in there because because I'm in Australia but you know the the way it's done is through trade agreements basically where all the parties come to the table and say okay well we agreed to abide by these rules we agreed to to these trade conditions and it works for everyone like you could in theory do that for inability between the layer ones but the problem is is that there's no kind of like governing body of these layer ones right so it would fall to the protocols that are actually building these things to set their own rules and then essentially they would have to make sure that they set the rules in place that they can't kind of like have security issues with

this whereas when it comes to interoperability between the l2s um yes they probably have to coordinate on on you know different solutions but at the same time you don't have to worry about all this extra overhead of like uh RS from from different layers talking to each other don't have to worry about different architectures of the different layers you're all settling down to the same route of trust to the same ethereum L1 you're all under the the same uh rule set just like in the US you're all under the same rule set of like the federal laws or you know I mean obviously this analogy is luciia but on a state-by-state basis there are different kind of regulations there but you're all under the same kind of federal laws where in ethereum you're all under the same protocol Rules by settling down to it so I think from that perspective uh

and I think you can view the l2s as States in this case so you know all the l2s are under the ethereum kind of like umbrella but then the l2s themselves are independent kind of states that you know have to follow the rules of ethereum protocol but can set their own rules as well and then within them you can have ler 3s which are maybe cities within states that can have their own rules and then you can go like even higher and layer fors to councils and like local councils stuff like that and apps you know being the businesses the analogies work Loosely but I I think you guys get my point here and what I'm trying to say is basically that it is much safer to do interoperability between uh things that say share the same roots of trust AKA a layer 2 so back to I guess uh finish

this up with the original discussion around fragmental liquidity I do want to also add here that I think that these l2s have more than enough liquidity like the top ones for the vast majority of users because if your size is size and if you're trying to sling six figures seven figures of assets around and you need more liquidity well you're going to be on L1 anyway like you're going to pay the L1 fees like and this is another issue that I think people don't realize is that okay if you've only got $100 to play around with then sure you're going to be on l2s because you're not going to do a trade on L1 because a trade could end up eating you know half of your money off of Just gas fees so then okay you don't need that much liquidity because you're only playing with $100

but if you're playing with like $100,000 or a million dollar you're not going to care about paying a $500 fee on layer one because that is basically a rounding error to the money that you're playing with so a lot of people just don't focus on this point which is just bizarre to me and then at the same time these bigger players can also play on l2s and they don't mind paying the bridging cost to go between l2s and they also don't mind having to wait you know maybe 10 minutes or something to go between these l2s on the different Bridges because of the fact that for them they operating with such size that it really is just like a you know a small if I mean if any it's not really an inconvenience to them right uh whereas if you're a smaller player I get it you know the costs ramp

up pretty quickly for you but that's what but the thing is is that you can actually sit on arbitrum 1 or on Bas today and you can pretty much do most of the things that you want to do on those layers I know that some things happen at different layers like for example there might be an nft mint on Bas but you can't go you can't um mint that from arbit and R because of the fact you have to be on base to Mint it but this is the same issue that exists today with other layer ones if I want to go do something on uh on another layer one I have to bridge there from ethereum like I can't just do it without bridging there to begin with and then people say oh well you can just withdraw from a centralized exchange and then instead of bridging

and I'm like well yeah you can do that for layer twos as well you can withdraw from coinbase to layer twos like so all of these narratives just fall apart in in in like the stupidest way because this should be obvious to people they should be obvious to Crypton natives this should not be something that I have to convince people of but evidently I do and but I hope that you know generally I know that I'm preaching to the choir when I say stuff like this because a lot of you guys are aligned on this Frame of thinking but my goal as well here was just to explain to you uh why I I think that this narrative is just like total crap and why I think that anyone who brings up this narrative is is basically just trying to do it to deride ethereum

because we've always had liquidity fragmentation among chains since the dawn of this ecosystem I mean I maybe not the dawn of of Bitcoin but basically since there was an economically relevant Fork of Bitcoin which was Litecoin you know if you were on Litecoin and you wanted to send BTC to someone well you'd have to go to a centralized Exchange Trade that LTC for BTC withdraw it out to bitcoin and then you could do that right so that right there is liquidity fragmentation so I think that uh My overall point is that tldd it's a non-issue TD we are fixing it uh and we are making it an easier kind of thing to to deal with even though I believe it's an overall non-issue we making it easier on the user experience side of things with things like AG layer and things

like Shar sequencing and pre-confirmation and so on and so forth there uh but I think on that note that's probably going to be it for today's episode so thank everyone for listening and watching be sure to subscribe to the channel if you haven't yet give it a thumbs up subscribe to new join the Discord Channel and I'll catch you all tomorrow thanks everyone