Is the $LAPTOP Coin a Scam? Wallets Say It Isn't

Transcript

I don't want this to be personal at all, but Elizabeth Warren basically is taking a side of the of the banking industry. Like what? Like what? Like what are you talking about? Like so and you I mean I don't get it. >> Hi everyone. Welcome to Unchained, your no hype resource for all things crypto. I'm your host Laura Shen. Thanks for joining this pre-recorded live stream. And first we'll take a quick word from the sponsors who make this show possible. This episode is brought to you by 1- in Aqua, the shared liquidity layer from 1 in. Back multiple liquidity positions with one wallet balance and keep your tokens in your wallet until a swap fills. See how it works at 1in.com/aqua.

Before we get started, I want to ask you for something. We're making a bunch of decisions right now about Unchained. What we make next, when we go live, what we should be doing more of, and I'd rather hear from you before we make them than after. So, we put together a survey. It takes just a few minutes. It's anonymous and there's a box where you can tell me what we could be doing better. I read all the responses. The link is in the show notes or you can snap the QR code on screen or go to unchained crypto.com/servey. Thanks. Today's guest is Hunter Biden, artist, author, and recovery advocate. Welcome, Hunter.

>> Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. Yeah, I'm excited to chat with you. So, as far as I can tell, >> yeah, >> your foray into crypto was a tweet reply in June to someone who at least currently has about 2,000 followers. Who knows how many they had at that time? And this person asked you, quote, "Thoughts on the entire fiat and financial system being unicorn fart dust?" And you responded, "Fiat is a sham. The banking class is corrupt. Decentralized digital currency and the blockchain are the inevitable future and the incumbents will fight it to the death. So before this, no one knew you were interested in crypto whatsoever, at least at least not in the crypto community. So given the relationship

your father's administration had with crypto, suffice to suffice it to say people were pretty shocked and surprised. So what's your origin story with crypto? How did you fall down the rabbit hole, as they say? >> Sure. Um what began with me uh is a strange entry point which I was the chairman of the board of an organization called the UN uh uh US UN World Food Program which is the largest humanitarian organization in the world and they're responsible for feeding over I think 75 million people in 80 different countries and they're the first responders to any disaster whether it's man-made or um a natural disaster And so we dealt with an

enormous number of refugees and those refugees come into uh communities or neighboring countries and uh and and they c and by virtue of our generosity through the United States government and through the UN and other um uh other nations that contribute to the world food program they end up cannibalizing uh economies uh that that that can't afford to be cannibalized. And so we had started a program at that time at the World Food Program at the the UN uh portion of the World Food Program started a program to create digital wallets for people because what we found is uh that the uh the ubiquity of of um uh of cell phones among even refugees and the ability to transact

digitally and and to um do so on on a micro level. And we extended that out to um places like Kabira and um DAB and to other um uh what were former refugee camps or or fifth generation refugee camp and then to subsistence farmers that were able to enter into a kind of a global economy that they had been locked out of be uh because of the um uh the international banking system. And so I then um was uh handed a copy of a book called The Internet of Money. And I became kind of a an a uh at least I I I felt like I got a better understanding

through the um through the eyes of someone who is a kind of a Bitcoin messiah, but more than anything learned about the blockchain. And and I and I I think I'll be proven right. Um, I think that blockchain as a um as a technology um and as a tool is the future. And you know, obviously what I said about um that saying fiat currency is is a sham is is a provocative statement um in one way, but fundamentally it it it's not a very provocative statement at all.

Historically, if you look at for instance the dollar and I know these are kind of like you know traditional talking points for people in the crypto space for at least people that think about this is that US dollar in and of itself has lost what 97% of its value since 1913 and any country and any government that can uh print money at will or excuse me print currency at will fundamentally is not any real relationship to money um to anything that is real. So at the same time obviously central banks and the uh the what they have been able to do over the course of the last you know 150 years in the United States is u potentially save

us from depressions and major recessions. But if you just look at what happened in 2008, I mean, we printed trillions of dollars and um and and we have this sticky inflation now that um that is that everybody just bakes into the idea of what fiat currency is. So, there's that piece of it. The second piece of it that seems to me to be not a very controversial statement is this idea that I just fundamentally disagree with that that cryptocurrency is kind of a cesspool for um nefarious actors is that it it it it allows for um uh for criminal behavior just by virtue of the tool. I'm I'm a believer in this.

I think a you know a hammer can be used to build or it can be used to um destroy and and just like that the blockchain cryptocurrency is a tool and it depends upon whose hands it is just like any technology just like any institution and I would say this is that if you want to look for criminal behavior I'd start with the um uh the incumbents I would start with the banking industry and the history of the banking industry and particularly history of the banking industry in my lifetime and the way that it has operated not just to exclude entire swaths of of uh of populations from being able to enter into the global economy but also in the way that it

moves money on behalf of really really bad people. So that's where I came into it. >> And what year was that? Uh well I beginning in I think uh uh with the World Food Program all the way back to like the you know 2015 1617 I didn't read the internet of money until uh um probably uh 20 to 24 but yeah but that was my kind of introduction to it all. >> Okay. Yeah. I think I might have even discussed that UN program on my show. I I definitely at least met somebody who was working with that. Um, yeah. But yeah, what what's so interesting to me is that essentially then there was a period where you held these views but

privately. And so I'm sure when you kind of came out of the closet about your views that you knew in advance that that would put you at odds with at least uh I don't know potentially the majority of the Democratic party. So I'm curious, you know, once you went public with these views, what the response was from them and what um you know, how how you responded back. >> Yeah. Well, number one is that I didn't I mean I I I I didn't have I I kept my views about a lot of things to while my dad was president because I think that's is that that's the role of a son or family member when their um uh when their father or their brother or their their uncle or their um whoever it may be is the president of the United States. I didn't have a job in the

administration and I didn't ever want to be perceived as speaking on behalf of the administration, particularly when I disagreed with it. It's just not appropriate in any way. And um and involving yourself in industries while your father is president is also just not appropriate in in any way. And so I say that out of everything in the in the White House. I I literally paint it for four years and I continue to paint. And it's a passion of mine that's beyond just a um a passing thing. I've done it my whole life and um and that's how I um you know put food on the table over the course of that time. I I don't think it is in any way shocking or um you know I know that he doesn't care what I think about cryptocurrency, but I don't think that um anybody the truth of the matter

I'm not an elected official. I don't intend on I'm not have no intention on running on anything. And I also think this I think so much of the reaction of the Democratic party um I I can't speak for the administration. I think that they were wrong-headed in many inst and respects, but I can't speak about it specifically and I don't want to um because I don't want to criticize. Let's talk about now. I think so much of the reaction in the Democratic party is um is comes from number one a kind of fundamental ignorance. And I don't mean that as a u in any way um a slight or an accusation or um I'm not putting anybody down. I don't think it's a willful ignorance. I think it's just a a a um it's it's all so new to them and the

and their only introduction to it has been through Donald Trump's grift. Their only introduction to it has been is to be in opposition to it purely on a I of the vast majority of Democrats. I'm not talking about the people who have sunk their teeth into this issue for years. I'm talking though about the vast majority of Democrats. They don't know they they don't listen to this show. they they haven't um they haven't read anything about cryptocurrency and it's not because they're stupid. It's just because they think that there are big things going on and so they kind of take the talking points of the people that are on the committees that have a leadership role and all they have to hear is this is World Liberty Financial and a $450 million investment from Abu Dhabi. All they have to hear is about

Don Jr. and what they're I mean look what uh I just read about you know the um uh the control of the currency and um and Coinbase and the um and what they did with uh uh World Financial in terms of the banking industry. I mean every single touch point that Donald Trump has has come into cryptocurrency has been purely as a m maxractor and for the benefit of him himself and not for the community not for cryptocurrency as a whole not for the policy. We didn't get, listen, think about this. You can blame the Democrats for um uh for uh not passing the Clarity Act, but the reality is the reason we didn't get the Clarity Act is because the administration

refused to bend on the ethics laws as it related to them and their and and Trump's family personally. That's the single biggest reason that we did not get the Clarity Act from in my estimation. And so it may um have shocked some people. I don't think that the truth of the matter is that most Democrats pay attention to the issue. And the reason that I got involved and the reason that I launched a coin was to get them to start to pay attention to the issue. I created a coin and a token that is the exact opposite tokconomics of the of of the Trump token and the Melania token and all of the other things that they have created to show that you can do this the right way and you can do it in

a way that potentially builds community and potentially builds a um uh it builds an audience and um and to do it for all the right reasons too is that you know I mean a meme token is a joke. That's the whole point about it. It's a troll. It's the ability to attract attention and to be able to sustain and maintain that attention over time and potentially benefit community. So that's why 50% of my coin is dedicated to to to community and um and not to me and uh instead of 80% of the coin being to insiders, 30% of the coin is being to insiders of which not a single token has been touched and will not be touched until the vesting period starts six months from now or five months from now.

>> Yeah. So, in a moment we'll talk more about laptop, but first we'll take a quick word from the sponsors who make the show possible. $540 million. That's how much concentrated liquidity sat idle in a given week in the first half of this year. About 30% of the D5 TVL if you're wondering. That's according to Dune Research commissioned by 1 in. But there's a solution. 1-in Aqua is the new shared liquidity platform. It lets LPS back multiple positions with the same token balance and keep their tokens in their wallet till a swap comes. Why does that help? Because the LPS don't have to split their tokens across positions.

They can cover more market conditions and pairs with their full balance. That means more activity across deeper liquidity. See how it works at 1in.com/aqua. Remember that providing liquidity carries risk and fees aren't guaranteed. One more thing, we've got a listener survey open. It takes just a few minutes. It's anonymous and it changes what we make next. Use the QR code on screen or go to unchainedcrypto.com/servey. The link is in the show notes. Back to my conversation with Hunter. So, as you mentioned, you recently launched Laptop, which is your memecoin. Explain why or well, I guess you started to explain, but expound a little bit more

on why you decided to launch a memecoin. Was it purely to troll Trump or was there like expound on that? >> Okay, so yes, one of the principal reasons, one of the legs of the stool was purely to troll Trump. trolled Trump on that exact idea that the that he he entered office and he he made promises like, you know, similar to the promise that he made that he was going to end the war in Ukraine on day one or that he would, you know, never um no more new wars and and I mean I could go down the list and one of them was is that he was going to be, you know, the crypto savior and um uh the the the crypto king and uh and it turns out is that um uh he not

only is not but he has uh I think done more damage to this community than um than good um by a long shot. And I think that the cardinal sin of what he did um uh uh is not just purely the max extraction but who it came from. And it came from his most devout and hardcore followers. And he literally took the money out of their pockets and put them into his directly. And I just I I can't believe that a sitting president in the United States, let alone anyone would do that. And so I started to think about it and I and I started to talk to people about it. And I said, could we build a coin that was, you know, virtually unruggable, that could um uh that is not

max extraction, where we could give an enormous uh uh percentage of the coin literally away to people, where we could devote a portion of it to charity that would not um uh uh so negatively impact the um uh uh liquidity of the coin and the and and uh the sell pressure on the coin that you could really give potentially millions of dollars away to the things that I care about in the recovery and addiction space. And we did and in conjunction with um uh Coinbase, which we we believed that we were going to have a day one listing um uh with, we did that. And and what ended up happening was is that there was a major error. We had uh three market makers.

I'm under confidentiality and I can't say which of the market makers, but it's all on the blockchain. >> Well, it's actually it's in the uh disclosure on the website. So, >> yeah. People can read it. I read it. >> Yeah. So, go ahead and read it. And and and and the point is this is that instead of putting in um they had um uh 30 million uh tokens and uh 15 million that were dedicated to the decentralized exchange is which where we had to launch. We knew that there was going to be an enormous amount of uh of interest in it um or at least attention to it and um that it would attract, you know, both uh uh real um uh and and potential in and not investors but um interest in it

and uh and also snipers and and bad actors and instead of putting in the adequate amount of liquidity um which would have been around anywhere I thought it should be around 25% of the of the available token and um and cash on that in on in hand. They put in $5,000 out of the 1 million that was available and or uh 500,000 in real money. And they put in um uh 29,000 just approximately 29,000 tokens instead of 5 million tokens. And so a $6 purchase in those first seconds um a buy um increased the the market cap of the of the coin by 5%. And then just do the

exponential math there. And within one minute, the coin went from where we launched at a $50 million FTV to 316 billion, $317 billion market, which obviously is pure fiction and doesn't is not related to any real money in any way. And then within minutes it dropped back down and now it trades around between you know seven seven cents 8 cents 70 80 FTV and you know which were up from our launch site but it gave the impression of this not just Christmas tree of Mount Everest in those first minutes and from my perspective it was just a incredibly poor decision or mistake um or um you know a negligence on the part of the of of a market maker

and um and and they they they um you know internally um have admitted that but um we've been we got back on track but getting back to your question of of why I also believe this okay I saw the way in which the uh the entire industry um uh cryptocurrencies as a whole had been kind of held hostage by this administration and not just by the administst ation, but literally by its family and the way in which they treated this and I thought they were doing an incredible disservice. But I also saw this. I saw the power of the industry in a um which I always thought was at best

libertarian but um at at but certainly um uh nonpartisan up until that last election. And I think that they had a a um an outsized impact on the way in which people viewed Donald Trump. They they they they I know this when I go out and talk now. If you're between the ages of 18 and 35, then uh you like I can talk I can have this conversation with you and you understand it better than I do in many ways and you're engaged. You understand that there's no real value in a mean point. There's nothing. I mean it's like you know I mean you might like it that a Pokemon card has more value

than the cardboard and ink. Like it really does. does I mean it's a collectible but it's an idea and it connects people and it has connected people and there are things that you can do that I still believe that you can build that it doesn't have to be this celebrity you know max extraction you know political token BS and I wanted to be the person to be able to do that because I find that in I find the audience incredibly interesting and one of the reasons I find them so interesting is how they connect to me with my own narrative and the reason to call it laptop was at is me reclaiming my narrative. And I found that that an inordinate number in the population of the people that call themselves degens and you know crypto Twitter and they're

awful to me and they're mean. But I get it. And I get it because I think that they they are dumped upon by the mainstream so much, so misunderstood in their own lives and in in in what they think is the wider mainstream uh community dismisses them and dismisses the way in which they connect with each other as being fake or a grift or not real. And I just think that's [ __ ] And I wanted to be able to have that discussion and to be a part of that and to enter into it in a way that was um additive rather than uh extractive.

>> Yeah. I mean you said so many things there that make sense to me like you know about reclaiming a narrative that was kind of a moment that was a negative moment in your life. Um that is something that really resonated. Um, but of course, as I'm sure you know, there are people who they look at what you did and they say, "Well, he's saying that he's trolling me, uh, Trump, but he's also doing the same thing." You know, I saw this. This was an account that had 18 followers who tweeted at you. Um, and this account said, "You criticized Trump for doing a scam, then do yourself." Uh, so this account with 18 followers got

almost 4,000 likes for saying that. And I was wondering how you respond to those critics. >> Okay. Well, I I here's how I respond to that. Look at the blockchain. All you have to do to see if it was a scam on my part is look, every wallet is completely transparent. You can see ex the exact tokconomics of it and you can see that the 300 million tokens that are part of the of the of the founders portion of the of this token have never moved and are not going to move. And there's a vetsing schedule and you can go read the Michael report and you can go to the website and you can see every single wallet. You can see how much the foundation has. Not a single dollar has come out of the foundation into the pockets of any of the insiders quote

unquote insiders in this. It is me and two other individuals and that's it. Both of them are uh Americans. And I I stand by this with an an enormous amount of uh of of pride in what we built and and embarrassment in the um and the responsibility regardless of whether it was a market makers fraud or not. It's my responsibility and I don't know how I would have dealt with the blackbox with market makers and you can probably tell me more about that industry than I could tell you myself from my own experience.

But that was outside my control. As soon as that we were able to get it under control, we got it under control. And I have been completely transparent about. So I would say to that account with 18 followers, where's the scam in that? I haven't put a I haven't put a a penny in my pocket. And if you're telling me that anybody if the if the if the value of a token is completely dependent upon the ability to um attain, sustain, and maintain attention, then you better hope that there are people like me that build a a a coin going forward that actually has tokconomics and and transparency in the way that I did. Otherwise,

everything becomes a pure max extraction play in this industry. And so I I just challenge them to go look and and and continue to look and not only watch what I do, but excuse me, what I say, but what I do and what happens on the chain because it's all there. >> Well, you mentioned earlier that there's a lock up of six months for the portion allocated to you and other founders. So, what are your plans at that time? >> Well, we'll see. We'll see where the coin sits, but there's a linear vesting schedule that goes out over 18 months.

And what we did with this coin was I I the first ever uh coin an innovation that I think is really really actually cool. We build in a prediction market into the into the token and that prediction market makes three excuse me um uh 30 predictions that go out over a two-year period of time actually through 2029 parts of 2029 in which we predict I predict will Democrats win the midterms. did I mean from from political things to things having to do with um Bitcoin hits an all-time high um to Zcash to you know uh look uh I mean a whole bunch of different ones in the crypto world and then just fun ones which were like my team the Eagles win their their home you

know the the opening game and when that happens if the if the prediction comes true uh we burn tokens and uh if it doesn't come true that um percentage goes to charity And there's a 5% minimum of charity, but obviously by the numbers it could go up to 35, not now because some of the things predictions have already come true. So it could go up to and probably around the range of like five to to 12 to 15% of the token to charity. That will not create sell pressure because it vests for um on the same schedule that we are on. And so the prediction market in and of itself sends the life and the attention of the token out for two years. Um and and so

it's not like oh 6 months come I'd like go like this and and walk away. I'm in it because I'm in it because the token has a has a lifespan that's much longer than that. And here's the other thing is that you know it's not like this is some kind of niche industry. It's not like, and I think this is the way some Democrats and other people think about it because they don't take the time to kind of try to at least be able to figure out the like the fundamental pieces of what this is. There's 10 million meme tokens. I mean, there's over 10 million. There are how many hundred millions of people have um uh crypto wallets um between you Binance, Coinbase, Robin Hood, Revolute, OKX. I mean like I it's like it's not as if

there is not a huge adoption of a what what's the percentage of Americans right now that have um a a crypto in some form or another or crypto wallet on an exchange? Do you know that number? >> I don't for recent times but I think when I researched it a couple years ago it was like 20% or more like 20 30% around there. >> Exactly. And we in the democratic or not because I'm not the wei of this but people in the democratic or of my political persuasion or in my age and um in my demographic we act as if it's like some like you know like you know like it's like a alternative world where you know um you know but it's like what one

out of every five people I mean what are we talking about and by the way and how offensive to that one out of five people when you say what they're doing what they're engaging in is not just stupid. Literally, these are kind of the words that they they use. But it's it's a sham. It's a it's a grift. It's all a big lie. Bitcoin's going to zero. The blockchain is [ __ ] The whole thing. And and I'll tell you, I just think that that that what how how shortsighted how how how completely ignorant do you have to be to not understand the value of blockchain of the blockchain just as that alone in in in uh in the age of AI and being able to figure out what is real and what is not real in a world of

of the most widespread misinformation and disinformation that and in in human existence. And so anyway, uh I'm now I'm just um that's why I got involved in the in the in the uh with the token. And now when I say involved, it's mine. That's the other thing. I don't think anybody that's come out here that's had I mean I had a disastrous um uh first hour of the of the launch of this, but the rest of it I'm very proud of. And I'm very proud of my team. I'm very proud of the people that helped me build this. I'm very proud of the uh and and I'm going to stay in it until we um you know uh until the end.

>> Yeah. No, I agree with you about the prediction market mechanism. I think it's really interesting and novel. Um one other part of the tokconomics that I liked was that some of the airdrop is going to go to people who uh have a loss on buying the Trump meme coin, which I thought was funny. Another part of the troll. Um but you know I'm sure you're aware that uh yeah you you have gotten a lot of criticism for it and so I am also curious >> there's so many ways to participate in crypto. So you know why why did you choose this out of the other potential options?

>> Well because I think that it was the most effective applesto apples troll that I could do as it related to Trump. And I will tell you one thing is while I I I do not speak on behalf of Democrats, I don't speak on behalf of I don't speak on behalf of any partisan um political party and and and had no intention to. But I do I I will say this. I think that Donald Trump and everything that he does is an existential threat to a constitutional republic that we live in today. And I know that I'm not win money fans in in in crypto world, but I think people are waking up to that. I think that that particularly independents are are people that aren't just registered independents, but independent thinkers,

which I always believe that the crypto community was independent thinkers. um and uh and that they're waking up to that that there is a that the threat that he um uh poses um to uh to the promise of our constitutional republic is profound. And so the trolling piece of it played a big big role in in why and here's the other reason is that I I I don't come to this with um uh with uh institutional backing or a bankroll of my own. I don't come to this in the idea that I have a um you know a portion of of of some kind of wealth that exists in my life that I'm going to you know put

you know put all in with Michael Sailor or you know buy Bitcoin at the dip. And so to me this is the way to be able to talk to the community most directly and to do it in a provocative way and that would get an enormous amount of attention and it has. I mean, one thing is true that's gotten a lot of attention and um and and if that's the the coin of the realm, so to speak, is that I think that I have a uh um a real shot of of of turning around a bad launch in in in a way that is um is productive and uh and secures the intent of what I of of of the reason that I >> And how do you plan to turn it around?

Well, that look, I think one of the ways that we turn it around is that we kind of reimagine the launch of the of the token. We still have um uh we still have the events um going hopefully that we as we get away from that kind of disastrous launch, we can get um uh we can sign up some more of the centralized exchanges which we're uh working towards. And you know, I mean, it all depends too. I think the rising tide lifts all boats. We'll see what happens to the industry as a whole and to um uh and you know I mean if if uh if we see a bull market then you know hopefully we can get back on track and here's the other way is just to keep talking about it to be going out there. I mean I the only thing

that I can do is talk to you and um and push back on uh Twitter. I I do get frustrated with crypto Twitter a little bit though is that they they went I mean look man I I I look I I am at at one point in in the last six months I was I was I was uh um I I was given the crown of the king of trolls myself so I get it okay like I get the thing but man oh man I mean I uh uh I understand their profound skepticism about anybody that's um getting involved But I I what I should have done is I should have spent a lot more time talking about it before I did it so that they could uh at least

know that I don't come to this like somebody uh you know somebody uh you know meet met me at a at a you know dinner party and said hey can we slap your name on something and see what happens. That is the exact opposite how this happened. and and um and the is I met somebody at a dinner party and say, "Hey, I want to learn everything I can know about this. I want to be able to figure out because I have an idea and I want to execute on it." And you know, and I spent an enormous amount of time trying to uh uh understand, learn the community, but also learn the technology, learn um uh the language and uh and and to to learn how it could be done the right way.

>> Yeah. I mean, so you didn't tweet about crypto very much before you launched it, but for sure you um clearly understood the lingo is the best way I can put it. That's that's how it read to me. >> Yeah. >> Um this Okay, but before so just in the interest of time, so you started to talk about your beef with Trump when it comes to how he's used the office of the presidency and relationship to the family's business ventures in crypto. And you recently tweeted, "The Trump family's business, World Liberty Financial, is corruption at a scale we've never seen." And you went on to describe the legal battle between Justin Sun and World Liberty. You added that World Liberty is borrowing $75 million

using its own token as collateral, which you pointed out is similar to how FTX was operating before it collapsed. You talked about business transactions between entities in the UAE uh with World Liberty. And then you said, "We are now conveniently engaged in a never-ending war in the Middle East." So, it sounds like you kind of have a grand theory of what it is that Trump is doing with the office of the presidency and his family's business dealings in crypto. So, explain more what that is. >> Well, look, the fact of the matter is is that it's all being done right before our eyes. I mean the the um uh maybe the only shocking part about it is is how um

uh transparent it is. And I I I all I know is this is that if you go to each family member individually, okay, and you see what they have done that has been reported in the public, take that, okay, and then take the accusations that they made about me. Even though I literally did no business other than sell paintings, when my dad was president of the United States, I made an average of about $200,000 a year over four years while my dad was president. Okay, forget about the time before and all of the things they talk about, but if you believed every single thing that they said, okay, their accusations against me are

literally not a patch and on on their ass. I mean it I I mean it is a it is like a a speed bump as compared to the Mount Everest of corruption that they are engaged in. And what I mean by that and when I say is like fundamental corruption take for once instance Jared Kushner is the special envoy to the Middle East. He's neither appointed he's not elected. He is not a part of the government in any way that requires him to uh to to adhere to any of the ethics laws or any of the conflict of interest rules or any of the um security um uh um uh analysis that goes into giving people

top security clearance. He is being paid close to um and has definitely been paid, but being paid in fees just from the Saudis alone close to $100 million a year. while he's negotiating the future of their relationship with the rest of the world as it relates not just to the war in Iran but to everything. How do you think that the Saudis, the first country ever ever to get nuclear technology um uh built on on on uh on foreign soil with the help of the United States government as we fight a war supposedly over ending a nuclear program in Iran?

Meanwhile, the Saudis are principally responsible for 9/11. um it at least should have taken principal responsibility for the the origins of what happened in 911 of Osama bin Laden and the that the destruction of the World Trade Center and the deaths of over 2500 Americans and everything that ensued after that. He's getting paid $100 million a year. And I always say if you want to figure out where somebody interest lies, figure out who's paying them. That's just one example. Take the example of Don Trump Jr. Don Trump Jr.

started a private equity venture fund right before inauguration with a couple of partners who I understand are decent guys. Okay. And what did they do? They focused all of the underlying companies. They've gone from zero, okay, to over $3.4 billion of uh of uh contracts with the um with the Department of Defense. They got a $630 million loan guarantee. the largest loan guarantee ever given out by the Pentagon to a private company. And that's just Don Jr. in one instance.

And just one thing, Eric Trump is has billions of dollars in in in real estate um deals, not with individuals around the world, not with people, with governments, with the Saudi government, with the Qatari government, with the Vietnamese government. And now he's in a fight with the Albanian government or Jared's in the fight with the Albanian government for take for you know the island that they discovered. And again, I literally could do this for two hours. Jared Kushner's wealth since 2025 has increased by 16.5 billion.

$16.5 billion, people. And that doesn't even touch what the concentric circles around it. Look what the Lutnik are doing as it relates to tariff tariffree funds. Look what is happening at the Department of Energy in terms of gatekeepers for nuclear um technology coming from the United States to Saudi Arabia. Look what's happening in each one of these place. Look what happened in the Department of Homeland Security, the largest um uh government agency in in in the country when Christy Gnome and um Cory Lwendowski were there.

And it continues to happen to this day just under different leadership. Everyone knows now that you have to pay a toll to get anything done in in in in uh in in Washington DC through this administration from foreign policy to pardons to anything. And this is not me coming up with like some subjective like I'm a I Trump derangement syndrome. There's nobody there's a and what they're counting on is people just not being able to like like there's so many balls in the air that this like people don't know what to do. I mean, I don't think the media has any clue as it relates to like what to focus on next.

Do we do we focus on the jet that the Qataris gave him or do we focus on the ballroom or do we focus on the you know the the the arc to Trump in um Arlington National Cemetery or do we focus on the 3400 uh uh stock trades that he did just in the first quarter of 2024 which by the way is 3400 more stock trades than every other president has ever done in the entire time of the presidency. >> Yeah. In a recent episode, I use the word shameless. >> Oh, that's I mean I look man, it is it is beyond shameless. And and I and I don't know what happens. I don't know. I I but I do know this is that I think and and people say that I shouldn't say this

this way, but I really believe it is that you know what if you pay attention if you pay attention to history, you know that the United States is beyond not perfect. I mean, we have a lot of [ __ ] in at over 250 years that we're not to be proud of. But you know what the feeling always was? Is that we were striving and then failing and striving to get better. And not just as a fake, but people that were a part of it that that that elected and whether they became misguided when they were elected may be one thing, but most of the people we thought that went there did so because they were patriotic and they believed in the in the promise of America, right? At least that's what I've always felt my

whole life. They've made a lie out of that. And the way that they have made a lie out of that is this is that I don't I don't think that and and I don't think this is a um hyperbolic or um in any way um uh melodramatic statement. Donald Trump does not care about anyone. I mean this not a anyone but himself first. And that is not even and if you can't figure that out by now and I think some people thought that was funny and some people thought that's what makes you a man and some people thought that what's makes him tough and he could shoot somebody on Fifth Avenue and get away with it. That's because he's like, you know, like this Superman and his superpower. But you know what it is? It

is it is absolutely 100% a um an indictment of not just him but us. is that we accept that you cannot have somebody sit in the office that is supposed to be the caretaker that is supposed to sit behind the Resolute desk, okay, in that Oval Office simply as a caretaker of my house, your house, our house. It is not his. It does not belong to him. It is not for him to pave over the ra rose garden without congressional approval in the in the consent of the American people. Yet he does and he does it every day. He reminds us it's not ours, it's his.

>> Yeah. Okay. >> And I think there's nothing Yeah. >> I agree with with pretty much everything you said. >> At the same time, just to put it all in context. >> Yeah. >> You know, I So, I'm I'm not a fan of Trump. >> Yeah. Uh however I will say he has done a few really good things and if he had not been elected the US would not be on a positive path to maintaining its lead in the financial uh markets and in the frontier of technology if it weren't for Trump. So I have to give him that I have to give him that credit. The trajectory that the Democrats had our country on was in

completely the wrong direction. And >> yeah, Laura, here's what I would say to that is that Mussolini um uh was, you know, had the trains run on time. You know what I mean? I I I really mean that. And I'm not saying that uh he's a um a fascist. Actually, I am. But it the but but my point is this is that yes and you know what you can do through an election is that you could you could elect someone and you can make an argument in a campaign that the Democrats have to get on board with that. They have to they they have to come to an understanding. they have to come to your position and and you can point to specific things in which Donald Trump I always say this I understand why

people voted for Trump the first time and the second time because they're angry and by the way sometimes they're angry because of the ignorance and the arrogance of the Democratic party and its leadership and that and that is absolutely um looks down their nose at anybody who disagrees with them and acts as if they they're just stupid and they don't know what the [ __ ] they're talking about or they're just greedy and they don't know them what they're profit or they're racist or they're misogynistic or they're whatever. And what they don't realize is this. People are [ __ ] pissed off by the way across communities. And everybody thinks that what I'm talking about, oh, it's like some guy in Appalachia, you know what I mean? That you know, watch Fox News all day. You know, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the

suburban couple that makes an average of about $750,000 a year and they have three kids. All of them are going to college. All of them are going to private college and trying to figure out how to pay that pay the mortgage and in two cars and go on vacation and can't figure out how it is that they basically are living paycheck to paycheck and they're the top 1% the top 1% of income earners $750,000 a year and they can't figure it out. And so they look out there and you just see that it's more of the same. It's always more of the same.

And who ends up winning? Not us. It's not, by the way, not even the rich. You know who ends up winning? The wealthy. And I when I mean by wealthy, I mean the top.5%. Not even the top. 01%. 9848 I always get the numbers mixed up. Families are billionaires in this country. True billionaires. Okay. Who do you think writes the tax law? They're not breaking the law. They're not cheating us. They're following the rules. Not a single one of them pays income tax. Not a single one of them.

And I wouldn't either if I were them because it's not in the rules because they wrote them. And you know who they wrote them with? They wrote them with the head of the Ways and Green Committee when he was a Republican and a Democrat. They wrote them with the Senate leadership when Democrats were in in charge and when it was the minority leader. They wrote them with I and go down the list. >> Yeah. So there has to be radical change and understanding of the way in which technology is changing our future. Part of that has to do with financial instruments, cryptocurrency and the blockchain. And if you can't get someone that can can start to understand that and have a a can be conversant in it, then I say, you know what, don't vote for him.

>> All right. So, uh, in the interest of time, we do have to go, but I just have to ask you, uh, a couple last questions. So, as you know, the Clarity Act died due to this political fight over ethics. It, you know, it looks like perhaps, uh, the Democrats might take either the House or the Senate. I wondered, you know, what you thought they could or should do. Um, and I don't know if you also are confused by the fact that essentially they voted to keep the status quo, which has no limits on him. So, yeah, just that's the first one, but try to keep it short.

>> Yeah. The truth of the matter is is that, you know, I I I don't know what will happen. I have a little bit of an understanding of just being um in and around it and uh and and and the way in which um legislation um moves through Congress and in an administration. I think it's going to be very very difficult in the next two years to get the Clarity Act passed. And I don't mean by virtue of the fact that there's not going to be an enormous amount of interest to move it forward, but they're going to have so many more things that on their plate that are important to um uh Democrats and u if Democrats take both and if they if they even if they didn't and and they for instance you you maintain one of the

houses I mean more likely if anything that would be the Senate but I think it's incumbent upon people like yourself like myself like others that are not knee-jerk kind of uh you know MAGA or conservatives or you know or ultra-conservatives that have a position on this to speak out to it and start to educate people and realize that it's not their their lack of of of willingness to come towards where you are comes from one thing and I really mean this I believe it for the vast majority of them comes from not being educated on it is not being um is is not having an understanding of it and it takes more and I and I and I applaud you for writing the essay, but it takes more

than an essay and they have to hear from start to hear from their constituents and they have to start to hear from people that that will that you know that are like real people to go in and say, "Hey, look what what about this?" Well, what about this blockchain? Let me tell you something. One of the things for instance with the blockchain that I that I first uh began to to play around and start to understand and how it worked was because of art you know I mean all of my uh art is on the blockchain. It is the you know what an incredible tool as an artist to have. I mean in in a um in a in a world in which you know I I can forever verify the um authenticity of something once it

leaves my hands and it's um and even when it's in my hands. And so every painting of mine is um is is a registered with fair on the blockchain. I take cryptocurrency. No one has given me any Bitcoin yet though. So if any listening out there, I need I still need I got some really cool paintings right behind me here. There's about 50 of them. Unfortunately, I never sold any paintings as much as the New York Post said that I did. Um but but they're really great paintings though.

>> Okay. Well, so I do also want to ask one other question about the Democrats in crypto, which is I'm sure you know that in the fight over stable coins, >> it seems like the Democrats have been surprisingly aligned with the big banks, this is yet another reason why I'm no longer a Democrat, but I wondered, you know, what your opinion >> Oh, yeah. Go ahead. >> Yeah, I'm I'm with you. I mean, look, I look, I personally like Elizabeth Warren as a person and and um uh I mean, because I I know her and she's and and uh I mean, I don't have a relationship with her, but she's always been very nice to me. So, I don't want this to be personal at all, but Elizabeth Warren basically is taking the side of the of of the banking industry. Like, what?

Like, what? Like, what are you talking about? Like, so I mean, I don't get it. like your first argument against cryptocurrency is the uh is is the corruption um argument is the idea of the of nefarious and illicit actions that can can occur by virtue of the anonymity of the blockchain and that's your argument. Like what the hell are you talking about? Like where's that where's that person from 2008 that pointed out to us that literally the [ __ ] entire banking industry robbed us of trillions of dollars and the only people that walked away from it were them were them. I mean who paid? We did.

And then what we did? You want to know why fiat's a sham? What did we do? We printed trillions of dollars. and who pays for that in inflation which is just an inherent tax that continues to go forward and forward and forward on American people. Who gets that money when it's printed and the value of that money first? The people that get the value of that money are the banks before the inflation hits. And so their value of money when it's printed and handed to them that they get to loan out is inherently more than what we get. And and what do you do? I mean, and and you're Elizabeth Warren and you're looking at the potential of a technology that frees people from that. That frees an entire globe from that. That frees an

entire globe from 15% transaction fees to be able to send money to your family back in Ghana or in Mexico City or wherever else in the world. or for subsistence farer to be able to bring their um uh their their wheat to um uh um uh um to Nairobi to be able to sold on the on the open market. I mean, I don't get it. I don't get why. And maybe I'm I'm fundamentally reducing her argument in a very unfair way, but if I ever got the chance to speak to her personally about it, that's what I would say.

I feel like you pulled a script from my own dreams of my conversations with Elizabeth. You >> know, you and I both. Yeah, exactly. >> All right. Well, Hun, this has been so amazing chatting with you. Um, but my last question is, so you tweeted Hyperlid, which I love that tweet. Um, you tweeted about how fiat is a sham. So, I'm curious if you just, you know, have either certain crypto bags that you're holding or just certain coins that you think are interesting. I'd be so curious to hear, you know, what interests you when it comes to >> No, I I don't I you know, I got to wait.

Uh let's see what happens in six months and um maybe I'll I I will have a um a little bit more um be more like truly interactive on my part in in in the um in the space, but no, I don't I don't >> Okay. Okay. Yeah. Well, I mean, this is >> I'm in the rebuilding phase. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Okay. Well, we'll we'll have you back on the show when you have more to report. >> Absolutely. 100%. >> All right. Great. >> I appreciate it. >> Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing and um yeah, I just really Oh, >> but I really mean I really mean it and and I I I am uh not to be saccharine, but I I I really really truly appreciate you taking the time to have me on to

talk about this, to give me a chance to talk about it and um and hopefully to let people at least know that I don't enter this lightly that this is not some fly by night operation in which I have not thought about what I'm what I'm getting involved in and I have a lot to learn and I I and I get to listen to people like you that I think come from to it all with a a real intellectual rigor uh um uh rigorous sense. So I appreciate it very much. Thank you. >> Well, thank you and it's been a pleasure having you on Unchained.

>> Thanks. Okay, see you. >> Nothing you hear on Unchained is investment advice. This show is forformational and entertainment purposes only and my guest and I may hold assets discussed on the show. For more disclosures, visit unchainedcrypto.com.