Kwenta | Meet the Nation

Transcript

[Music] hey bankless nation today we are talking with andrew trudell of cuenta quinta is a an exchange that used to be primarily just a front end for synthetics but it is now spinning out into its own organization its own dow its own front end doing uh its own exchanging purposes in addition to changing or exchanging uh synthetic synths it is now integrating with other d5 money legos on the optimism l2 and is now its own self-sufficient organization intimately tied with synthetic synthetics but independent nonetheless so i'm going to let andrew explain the rest of the details about how synthetics or excuse me how quinta came to be its own independent uh exchange platform uh

as well as the future version the future vision of quenta itself as well as the uh hintingly insane amount of surface area there are for contributors or users or stakers or people that just want to participate in the quench exchange to receive the brand new quinta token which i forgot to ask what the ticker symbol is is but i'm going to go ahead and guess that it is quent um that's just my guess um so much information is jam-packed into this meet the nation episode so thank you for andrew for coming on and explaining this new uh front end this new exchange infrastructure for defy on optimism layer 2 and without further ado let's go ahead and get right into that conversation but first a moment to talk about some of

these fantastic sponsors that make this show possible bankless is proud to be supported by uniswap uniswap is a new paradigm in asset exchange infrastructure instead of a cumbersome order book system where trades are matched with other humans uniswap is an autonomous piece of software on ethereum which is what ryan and i call a money robot no human counterparties or centralized intermediaries just autonomous code on ethereum input the token you want to sell and receive the token you want to buy something brand new in the uni-swap ecosystem is the uniswap grants program is now accepting applications for grants we have been saying this for a while and will say it again dows have money and they are in need of labor if you think that you have

something to contribute to the uniswap dow apply for a grant to uniswap just look at the size of the uniswap treasury it's almost three billion dollars this mountain of capital is looking for labor do you have something of value to contribute to the uniswap dow no matter how big or small your idea is you can apply for a uni grant at unigrants.org and help steer uniswap in the direction that you think it should go that's exactly what we did to get uniswap to be a sponsor for bankless and you can do the same for your project thank you uniswap for sponsoring bankless the era of proof of stake is upon us proof-of-stake systems like ethereum terra and solana allow the industry to move away from the hot loud and wasteful proof-of-work systems and

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and deposit them to the lido validating network lido is working to make sure proof of stake stays as decentralized as possible and is committed to decentralizing its own validating network to eventually become a completely permissionless protocol so if you want to stake your eath tara or soul and get liquidity on your steak go to lydo.fi to get started all right bankless nation i am here with andrew trudell who is one of the earliest core contributors to the quinta project the quinta exchange and we are going to unpack what cuenta actually is today here on this meet the nation so andrew welcome to the meet the nation thanks it's uh great to be here so let's start with this very basic question what is cuenta

for sure so quanta is a decentralized futures trading platform where we're basically trying to recreate what's uh possible with the centralized exchange trading experience but in a completely decentralized manner um so try to take on some of the biggest centralized exchanges with an experience that doesn't compromise any of the uh centralized components and so what where would you say uh is cuentas of all the different like trading products that they're out there there's spot trading there's derivatives trading what are the main products that quenta brings to the market yeah for sure so today it offers spot trading and it's kind of like where we've taken an entry point to creating the product but the goal is to basically have our flagship product be futures so you'll be

able to trade with leverage on cuenta as like its primary function but yeah there's i think a lot of possibility to expand beyond that from options and uh yeah and re-shorting is currently available um so yeah really just trying to mimic what's possible with the centralized exchange but with a decentralized experience so why futures why not um like perpetuals leverage margin spot trading why futures specifically yeah so it is it is perpetual futures i think i just want them into the same category but um i think that uh some of the most active markets on centralized exchanges are futures and i think the the most active market in the traditional finance world is trading commodities of futures um so it's

probably a really good spearhead to sort of just like give something that's unique and i think not fully captured in the decentralized market as it is right now i think you can you know trade spot markets for cryptocurrency with uniswap um but there's not really like a broader market to go to use you know some more decentralized uh futures available so just for to uh get the listeners like mental maps going uh we just did a show with antonio of dydx and they are perpetuals not futures and so cuenta is perpetual's futures so one is like perpetuals of the current spot price and cuenta is perpetuals of the futures price which is a futures are contracts where you agree to

pay a particular price at a future time that their right way to explain it i think it's going to feel pretty similar to what dydx has however the mechanism's pretty different because we're using synthetics as a back end so i would almost say it's a it's a unique product like you're going to be under market conditions where it'll be favorable to use quinta versus dydx um labeling it accurately might be a little tricky uh given that it's something a little bit newer but um it's gonna feel very similar to what dydx offers and then what are the assets that have the most volume on cuenta why do what what assets bring people to trade on quinta yeah so this is the interesting part since it's so new we haven't really been able to see what's possible and we're

not really at the point where it's fully fledged out so i think we've seen you know traditional markets like bitcoin and ethereum and even we have a basket of d5 tokens called sd5 that have really taken the front stage but i think it's something that can expand far beyond that given that synthetics is known for being able to bring in assets that are outside of the cryptocurrency ecosystem and that's really attractive to us because that means that we could potentially tackle a market that's beyond just cryptocurrency with futures in a decentralized manner so it's pretty exciting and this is one of the advantages of being built on synthetics right synthetics famously a synthetic asset platform there's so many assets out there in the world tokenizing real world

assets and getting them on to ethereum is difficult it's very cumbersome it's legally complex and perhaps legally impossible in a compliant manner but synthetic assets are kind of this neat little work around where if you just have an oracle you can just make a token be priced in alignment with an external asset right so um synthetics famously has like oil and gold you aren't actually trading like real world barrels of oil anywhere or real world gold anywhere you're just trading a synthetic asset that tracks that same price uh and so quinta is like a front end for synthetics can you maybe elaborate on the relationship between cuenta quentin synthetics

sure so uh originally there was synthetic exchange and synthetics exchange was just the front end for synthetics but we realized that people were sort of confusing synthetics the protocol with synthetics the exchange so we decided to split up the branding and we worked with the community and came up with the name cuenta and came up with separate branding and then cuenta was basically what synthetics exchange was was just like a portal to trade since uh synthetic assets um that was built on top of synthetics but the problem was um that it was a little too successful so we saw other projects building with synthetics and there was you know attention you know being directed in a whole bunch of different directions but

cuenta itself got the short end of the stick a little bit because it was you know getting taken away from the resources that we need to develop on cuenta um so it made sense to basically split up quantus and own independent project and then sort of enable its community to direct where it could go um but having the uh synthetics trading module whether that synths or shorting or futures uh be sort of its flagship entry point to the market and its core advantage uh honestly over the market um so now that we have this in a sort of um new protocol that's uh slowly coming to life uh yeah it enables us to like have our own core contributors have our own community dedicated to like marketing uh and really sort of uh ramp up what was

possible with gwenta um for me i again like i'm just another member of the community but i hope to see cuenta become a abstraction layer for d5 um so i think it's really admirable like zapper has done where they've just made it so easy to like track what's going on but i haven't really seen uh an interface where it makes using all the different pieces together really simple so that's more we tap into the trading hub experience where we can rival centralized exchanges so taking in pieces like lyra which deals with you know traditional options like boots and calls um and then yeah taking futures from synthetics and then using quenta in the middle to like abstract those two protocols and make it very easy to access and use them and then potentially even combine them to create positions

that would otherwise be impossible because it's all composable and that's the real advantage of the synthetics ecosystem is everything can interact with everything so it's really just this abstraction layer where it's going to make it very easy to access all these you know fantastic financial products being built in a single place yeah so just just to recap just to make sure i'm following synthetics is a synthetic asset generation protocol it's one job is to make synthetic assets but for no i would disagree a little bit so the way i view uh synthetics is that it's a derivatives liquidity protocol uh which is i guess a little bit of wordplay but for me it's almost like a liquidity sandbox you've just got this huge amount of staked synthetics that in turn you know uh basically

uh collateralizes susd so you can really do anything with that pool of collateral it could be you know options futures it doesn't just have to be uh synthetic assets but synthetic access is obviously one of the major benefits but it's liquidity it's available liquidity for decentralized protocols to play with so yeah okay so it's a liquidity protocol uh my my um semantics was wrong but my point will still stand it's a liquidity protocol uh and in order for people to take advantage of that liquidity protocol they needed a trading platform which is where the syntax exchange came from because they needed to create their own infrastructure so people could use the actual liquidity protocol but it sounds like it split um the attention of the synthetic contributors between the

people that actually wanted to build out the liquidity protocol synthetics and also the trading platform which was the synthetic exchange so it sounds like um it's a victim of its own success it's actually needed to split attention and divide the community so that the people that care about the exchange can build the exchange and the people that care about the synthetics um liquidity protocol can build on that is that is that kind of how these two things have become separate when you're a synthetic core contributor your top priority is synthetics so i think it's tough to go justify tweaking a front end that's different branding different community even uh so it makes so much more sense to take the people who cared most about client and focus on that and then take the people who are you know crushing it in the synthetics ecosystem and let them run with what

they're already doing um so it really just uh creates some modularity to the ecosystem and is a net benefit for everyone and the synthetics community is famously absolutely massive and engaged yeah it makes sense to now kind of split off and in the ethos of decentralization split off the different products into different communities and allow people with their core competence competencies to focus on what they want to focus on um so let's talk about now so there's some alignment between cuenta and synthetics quinta uses synthetics as one of the backend protocols but you also talked about uh libra exchange as well which is also on optimism and so can you perhaps extrapolate into the future cuenta's um alignment with synthetics uh

and just overall vision for what it can be just yeah you talked about like uh already a little bit because i want you to unpack that a little bit more it's nice to have all these mini legos because you can stitch all these money legos together and so is the idea with cuenta just to offer a bunch of financial exchange products by using many many other protocols as the back end i think that's part of the opportunity yeah it's just really creating a place where people can go and use all these you know incredible financial products uh in one place without needing to like jump through all these different loops and plus since they're all composable we can have our own contracts that sort of glue them together and just abstract away a lot of the complexity of interacting with them giving users a much much better

experience than you know trying to jump around all these different protocols to manage individual positions which each in their own right are great but having them together in one place to just observe them would be probably a little bit more simple um and that's part of the value prop and some of them like synthetics like there's really no way to go trade since unless you're on cuenta there's really no way to go trade futures on synthetics unless you're on coins and that can change in the future because it's composable but that's really the uh where we stand today and it's just the ability to like yeah continually adapt and find where the demand is and then uh bring in the uh the protocols that i think the community wants to see included so yeah so cuenta isn't perhaps formally part of synthetics but it's more part of

synthetics maybe at the social layer because all the contributors to quenta are also like natively like synthetics ogs was that is that right yeah so that's that's definitely right i would also point out that as part of the transition to split out quenta we had to create proposals and you know requests from the spartan council that this is split out um and the spartan council members are essentially representatives of the synthetics community that were like voted by token holders and therefore represent the token holders um so they decided that yes we were going to go and split out but as part of this 35 percent of the token supply of gwenta was going to make its way back to stakers and synthetics exchange users

that were you know most active on the platform um so that in turn does offer some alignment uh to tie the two together and then yeah i think there's potentially going to be some other opportunity to expand beyond that to further group the two tokens together that might not be the right word but to like further find incentive alignment so yeah okay so there is formal on-chain relationships between cuenta and synthetics above and beyond just cuenta using synthetics to provide synths so yeah via via token holders token holders right hey guys i hope you're enjoying the conversation with andrew thus far in the second half of the show we go into what the future version the maximally successful version of quinta will look

like as well as what optimism offers quinta and why optimism and what uh about optimism uh andrew's looking forward to in the future so the rest of this conversation is coming up next but first before we get there a moment to talk about some of these fantastic sponsors that make this show possible gemini is the world's most trusted cryptocurrency exchange i've been a customer of gemiini since i first got into crypto in 2017 and it's been my main exchange of choice to make my crypto buys and sells gemini is available in all 50 states and in over 50 countries worldwide and on gemini there are markets for over 30 various different crypto assets including many of the hot defy tokens and it's one of the few exchanges that has liquid dye markets gemini just launched their earn

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vote from the spartan council to go and split up this protocol and now that it has to become its own dao we need our own coordination mechanism to make sure that everything benefits everyone so part of that is creating our own incentive structures and a great way to do that is by having a token so i've written up a proposal and we're going to introduce it to the interim council which is basically a temporary council that we've set up for cuenta so that the community can make decisions and these people were voted in by the spartan council so using almost like decentralized governance as a service with synthetics to formalize all the processes going on in cuenta and part of that uh yeah it does include like a tokenomics and how we're going to

distribute that amongst uh stakers uh community members uh core contributors um and yeah anything else that you know treasury as a as an important piece um so this will initially be a governance token um but i think the community will have the freedom it needs to make it become what they want it to be um yeah so uh assuming that your proposal gets accepted could you just uh illustrate the the nature of how the quinta token will be distributed into whom sure so yeah that's the interesting part too is whether it actually gets accepted or not because i don't know i i've done some research and i've you know really i think created some strong arguments for the way it'll go but

ultimately it's up to the council to decide i also should say i'm one of the five interim council members because i think the incentive alignment makes a lot of sense um so yeah this would basically right now i think we have a model to distribute uh 30 to um the uh snx takers um so that'll have a model that reflects basically people who have you know been around for a long time and have supported and like you know continued to offer uh liquidity that's so valuable for the whole ecosystem um and then we'll have another five percent that goes back to synthetics exchange and early quantity users while it was under synthetic uh management so uh that should reflect kind of like almost um uh

i'm not sure if compensation is the right word but just you know creating the alignment giving giving giving the alignment with the community that we think is needed and then yeah we'll have uh 20 reserved to the treasury so that we can like you know long-term stake it and continue to fund the project and whatever it needs as well as a growth fund i think that's another 25 that we'll have um there's a small allotment for uh core contributors that's actually partially going back to synthetic score contributors who helped build it as well it's only 15 um and then a little bit of investment too so what we're thinking of doing is having a community raise um so instead of yeah having any sort of centralized uh uh conversations uh it'll be open to everyone so we're gonna uh use alan

which is another uh uh synthetics community project there's there's a whole other conversation i have about aylin but essentially yeah it's a raising mechanism um to fund projects uh so yeah that kind of is the rough breakout i'm not sure if i missed any percentages there but yeah that's roughly how it breaks down that seemed to all kind of be lumped under the category of aligning incentives behind the people that you need to help build out this quinta thing but also is there a strategy to using the token to incentivize just um customer acquisition or just usage of quinta yeah so we've baked that like directly into the staking model so that's the initial supply that we're giving out which in my proposal is 313 373 and it will yeah sort of create the

groundwork for people to stake if they should choose to and then we'll have a pretty aggressive staking model that's going to start quite high with inflation and then taper out to one percent definitely after uh four years so i think it's going to start as high as 60 in the current proposal which would make the total supply essentially uh double or triple over the next uh four years and then ultimately plateau at one percent um and the idea is that the people who use cuenta should end up being the people that are most rewarded so there will be an extremely high incentive for people who are active futures traders to be cuentus takers and then they'll have the proper incentive to make decisions about how they can actually influence puente and the unique part about cuenta

and this whole decentralized dial process that we've taken here is that when you see a problem with a product that you're like oh wow i really wish i could change this like quentin will have all the faculties to basically have that community member come in and say i really want to change this and for it to go and get changed like on the spot and then for them to actually be rewarded for making that you know change brought to the community so it's really focused on making sure that the users of the product are adequately incentivized to see the product be successful and that creates like a right feedback loop to get all the right information and development done on cuenta so that it can actually be very successful for other people who are also going to want to be traders in the decentralized world so

it's it's very carefully thought out to align all the incentives of the right parties to make sure that they're making decisions and then enabling those people to actually uh have an impact very easily on the protocol for what it can do that seems to be the right choice i've always thought that like the the bullish the the dows that will see success are the dows that figure out how to lower the barriers of contribution to an absolute minimum um like if you have a good idea and all you have to do is voice that good idea and that starts a cascade of processes that result in change like that's the that's the optima method yep 100 i think the community is the most powerful part

about synthetics right just seeing how that like took off from you know a group of people who are really excited about d5 to basically being like a governance system where it's almost like a mini government framework to it right like seeing that project you know process evolve into what it is today where it's it's successful and it's continuing to adapt the protocol and it's evolving and growing and there's a v3 coming down that's going to be huge and like there's a lot of excitement to be happy with those things i think it makes sense to take all the things that work really well for synthetics and even projects like urine where they think they have really good incentive alignment for people to come in and make new things for earn and just pick and choose those pieces and then kind of mold it into a

dial that's unique in its own right um and focused on customers it's more it's it's a little less so about the protocol a little more so about the user experience um and centralizing a front end has had its own challenges but we've i think come to a solution for how we're going to uh make sure that it is truly decentralized we won't be hosting it kind of thing so yeah there's a whole process there yeah to talk more about the to the technical details behind uh quinta it's on optimism uh can you talk about why optimism and what it's been like to build there yeah so we've always been really excited about optimism because it's i think got a really good a team the team is fantastic we really believe in the team um but then also

they've really thought through the security hurdles that would come with a layer two um and we kind of felt really confident that they were making the right decisions when making layer two and uh the net benefit for traders on cuenta is that the transaction fees which are enormous on layer one will be very very low if not like you know negligible in some cases um so that's fantastic and then the speed of the transaction is also about i want to say 50 times faster but i i don't want to eat my own words but it's extremely fast like you're just basically ripping through transactions now um so if we've sort of used that model now to like build an entire protocol and like a group of d5 lego pieces fitting together like it

really enables us to kind of expand what was possible that we would have otherwise made compromises on layer one because you wouldn't have been able to execute the contract that checked everything and then you know made it all simple so instead now we can make we can afford to like make some of those decisions um so it's not only good for users on the front end who are just making quick trades it's also extremely beneficial in the back end for the development side because we can make decisions that just otherwise wouldn't have been viable on layer one and i think yeah the lyrics fantastic example of that because options are an extremely complex product um but they've managed to basically use the benefits of layer two to like accomplish something that was otherwise just impossible it would have been too expensive to use on layer one

so yeah that's the whole philosophy of philosophy on being on l2 and that's going to continue we're going to potentially have staking only on l2 because that's where all the action is going to be for quantum users and then yeah a lot of new products may only end up being native to optimism because it might not make sense to have them on that one so yeah absolutely and i think it's an interesting choice when you uh choose or when quentin chooses to not just be a front end for synthetics but also to integrate other applications that are also on optimism and just offering a seamless uh front end for all of the defy exchange activities that you see on optimism and i think that if you start to include you know not just in synthetics but you add add lyra

well i mean where does it stop like uniswap v3 is also on optimism uh is will unit swap v3 be a part of the cuenta frontend and at that point does where does the conversation stop is is cuenta going to be just kind of like the exchange front end for all of the defy money legos that we find on optimism where does this conversation go to i think that's an exciting direction to go in and there's a lot of proposals that need to go through the clinton community to make that all happen but i would agree that yeah that's something that i i think would be a positive direction to go in um is that kind of like the full case for quenta is that if you go on to optimism you just like oh well where do i go to exchange oh i go

to go to quinta is that like the bold case scenario for this i like keeping it a little bit broader and saying it's it's anything in d5 because uh optimism is probably going to be i think where a lot of that lives but we're cognizant of everything else going on in d52 but for now i think yeah we'll be focusing on optimism for sure um yeah so andrew what is uh missing with cuento what are the holes that need to be filled or the voids that are left that yeah you guys still need contributors or just help with yeah uh we still need um uh there's a lot because we have to build out an entire

governance framework now right so there's going to be a lot of roles i think one of the most exciting roles that i think is a little bit different um from synthetics and even in the other group is there's going to be uh we're going to call them product elites and what they do is basically review designs um test code and also suggest changes so essentially what they'll be doing is being the leaders of where the product direction is going to go and we're hoping that these people essentially be people who are extremely active in the trading space uh they you know already you know they're already trading daily they may as well uh get paid essentially for having their feedback given to a protocol and then using that direction to um you know change what's happening on the

front end and further development um so by yeah rewarding people who are the most vocal and you know attentive to detail and potentially even got a little bit of like a product bone in their body um we could have several people kind of like owning that there's i think going to be community development roles so making sure that stuff that no like core contributors are great but i don't think protocol should be reliant forever on core contributors so i think there's room for a development dial kind of sub-dial within cuenta and then same thing for marketing i think there could be a room for people who have that marketing bone who want to come in and be a part of a protocol but aren't sure how to exactly do that because it's still a little ambiguous how to exactly participate in protocol we want to make sure that all the

frameworks there so people can come in and like contribute and then yeah potentially uh erode any semblance of centralization at all um even knowing it's fully decentralized right now but it can feel a little bit like there's people doing things for other people right now and i think that'll slowly slowly fade away and you'll start to see more of a community bustle uh evolving in cuenta so a lot of roles available um but yeah keeping involved with the community and just demonstrating i think where people can be helpful is the very very useful to us right now andrew is there any parts about cuenta that we haven't touched on yet or questions that i haven't asked that um i probably should have um i think maybe staking i hadn't really hit that but basically uh quinte users will be able to stick

their their quinta token um it's going to get inflationary rewards and then should the opportunity arise for other incentives that could be added into the protocol that'll have to get added through proposals and all these different things but it creates the floor to create um a productive system i think so that's exciting um and then people who have state tokens will also be the people who can vote so similar to synthetics you have to have state tokens to be able to vote um yeah and i think that uh that pretty much covers it so andrew if we uh zoom out and go five ten years into the future and we see the maximally successful version of cuenta what does that look like in your eyes

um i think instead of needing to look at all the different protocols and like what their benefits are you would probably see a version of puenta that enables people to just go to cuento and trade because it's capturing the best of what's available so i think that would probably be the best case is that people when they think about trading in d5 they're thinking about how okay can i access this suenta like is this something that's already available to me i think that would be really exciting to see fantastic andrew if people who are listening to the show want to learn more or where should they go yeah so you can go into the cuenta discord um there's a great young community a lot of opportunity is still there to like find your place and a lot of opportunity to carve out a longer

term role in the community that may in turn be uh something that's incentivized down the road um so that's exciting uh and then yeah following us on twitter quenta underdash underscore it'll be in the show notes it'll be in the show okay so yeah any of those two places are great yeah andrew one last thing before we go you guys have a competition coming up can you tell us all about that yeah so uh futures is now being rolled out from synthetics so people will be able to actually go in and use test net of optimism and trade futures positions and compete with others in the space to try and earn some rewards um so we're going to have an official announcement coming out soon where people can basically participate um we have a form where people can go sign up early right

now and make sure that they are going to get informed as soon as it comes out um but yeah that'll be a great opportunity to see what uh quentin's capable of and uh yeah participate a little bit in the d5 ecosystem so yeah it's exciting and then what are their rewards sure so these are still being figured out uh but we expect to have about uh 50 000 susd in rewards available um it's still in flux a little bit but i think that's a good floor and then some other exciting prizes for people who reach the upper echelons of the leaderboard um so that will potentially give you access to gated opportunities in quinta so that's exciting too so keep an eye out for that that is pretty cool and uh i'll say this without consulting andrew first but it's generally a good idea to have a

footprint in defy for surface area for things and so i think a competition on a brand new exchange on layer two might be an interesting thing to get your your address associated with no comments from andrew no comment no comments here awesome well andrew thank you for coming to this uh meet the nation episode and introducing quenta to the bankless nation for sure thanks for having me i appreciate that cheers hey we hope you enjoyed the video if you did head over to bankless hq right now to develop your crypto investing skills and learn how to free yourself from banks and gain your financial independence we recommend

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