Keli Callaghan on ETH treasuries, crypto VC and the Pump.fun token

Transcript

GM. Good morning. Welcome to the Milk Road Show, the daily crypto show. Feeling bullish enough to consider telling our in-laws we were right. I'm your host, Jay Hamilton. It's Tuesday, July the 8th. Today we are joined by Kelly Callahan, early team member at Algarand. Currently partner at Arrington Capital, a multi strategy VC and liquid hedge fund focused on crypto. They're invested in Etherfi, Moonwell, Space, and Time, Redstone, and many more. Today we are going to talk about the state of VC funding. VC funding topped 2.8 billion in June, back on the rise. It's the second highest month since the last cycle since 2022. We're also going to talk about corporate treasury strategy

and not just Bitcoin, Ethereum corporate treasury strategy and other tokens corporate treasury strategy. We're going to talk about that growing trend. And finally, we're going to talk about the pumpf fun token launch, which might be happening later this week. Might not be. There's a little bit of confusion right now on crypto Twitter and noise happening. But the main question is whenever it does happen, what are the details? And is this something you should be thinking about investing in? Before we jump in, I hate to ask this everybody, but you could do me a quick favor. Give us a like or a subscribe or a review wherever you are listening.

really helps out the show and most importantly it helps us get in front of more investors and make sure that investors coming into crypto do so in a safe and secure manner and don't get wrecked along the way and then rage quit and just leave because we want people here to stay as we gain adoption towards a billion onchain users. Today's episode is brought to you by definitive the leading onchain trading terminal trusted by funds dows and whales. It's also brought to you by letin get cash without selling your bitcoin. Without further ado, Kelly, welcome to the Milk Road Show.

Thank you, Jay, and thank you for having me. I already told my in-laws I was right, just for the record. Throwing that out there. That's cuz you're from Boston. You've been right your whole life. Mostly mostly true. Okay, let's start with uh state of VC funding. you're obviously in one of the larger VCs in this space, so no better person to talk to today. Uh, Block Works or sorry, I should say yesterday, Block Works put out a report talking about VC funding in June. Let me just pull up this chart that shows June was a really good month. Almost three billion in VC funding flowing into crypto projects.

And you can see we haven't been close to that number since 2022. when when you look at the current state of VC funding, what are you seeing from your side on the the the VC side? You know, it's interesting. First of all, kudos to Block Works. They've been doing a really good job with just data and charts and articles. I mean, even this week, I think they put out all their holdings for their team and people have started analyszing what's on there. Um they huge fan of the Block Works team. So, so I love their work. Uh I this this is interesting. So we have both uh we do both liquid trading and we do private venture investments. Um early stage private venture investments are the crux of our uh of our foundation

here and what I have the most fun with. I love working with early stage founders and and helping them grow in their early days or expand. Uh this to me this to me seems like it probably includes some of the digital asset treasuries uh that we've seen come to life. Um just looking at the months with the pops here. I don't think there have been as many deals on the private venture side as there have been. Um it's been a little quieter there. So I have to think that this includes all the digital asset treasuries. I think that crypton natives are more aware of the expansion opportunity on those and sort of the markets that they open up and I

think that they there's been a lot flowing into that stuff. Yeah. Let's let's talk about corporate this corporate treasury theme because this is quite honestly the the biggest narrative right now. It's I would say the first half of the year. Uh Bitcoin I mean Bitcoin's basically been the biggest narrative since the ETF launched a year and a half ago. Uh even though altcoins keep trying their darnest to get the narrative back. Memecoin's had their moment but really it's been Bitcoin and Bitcoin treasury companies and now it's growing beyond Bitcoin to other treasury companies as well. From what are you seeing when you look at this? Let's talk let's take a step back.

Why are corporate treasuries so popular right now and why are they getting so much attention? Couple things. One, I think many people look at it as a safer bet. Um, two, I think it's been a model that's been proven. Micro Strategy has been doing this for years and you get more access to some of it. It's in through some lenses, it's a better play than just buying spot and just taking a position in the asset on a digital asset um on any of the the platforms or exchanges that exist today. I think there's also this element that people forget of and maybe that's what what those in crypto or crypto native are more aware is that we're still sort of our own crypto ecosystem and it's been harder to grow and expand the pie everywhere else and

you know if you look at some of these digital asset treasury strategies sure there's been a bunch in the US there's been some in Canada they're also popping up in other places in the world and you forget that not everyone in the world can work within the crypto digital asset space as other jurisdictions. And so when you get the opportunities to have them on a publicly traded equities vehicle in some other country where the rules or regulations or taxation is different and then you get them in a in a stock play, there's a unique opportunity there.

It's it seems like the most obvious statement to make, but yet it is very nuanced and difficult to grasp, which is that quite simply there are people, and it's hard for our listeners to know this, that cannot buy spot crypto, can't buy tokens. They either they can't because of jurisdiction, they don't know how, it's not easy for them, or their brokerage or whoever they work with can't recommend it, can't actually sell it to them like for a whole variety of reason. There's a lot of in the office that can't do it. It's a retirement fund that can't buy a digital asset. Well, guess what? They can still buy, you know, ESP stock, right?

Right. Right. Okay. So, so we have this large uh capital sitting in various forms around the world that doesn't have access. I mean, even last week, we talked about people forget that in China you cannot buy or hold crypto. Like, and it's been like that since 2022. Like that is unbelievable. That's crazy. But you also take um India don't if I'm for your listeners don't don't on me if I'm totally wrong here but I believe in India you know if you own a digital asset and it goes down you don't get to take that as losses versus if it goes up you're owing more capital gains taxes versus if you have a stock in that country you can take the

losses just as much as you can take the gains. That is a very different ballgame for someone in that particular jurisdiction. And you know the other thing Jay is you've seen a lot of tweets on I've seen a lot of them recently just on how few people are actually holding digital assets and yet it's on CNBC on the daily these days. So like it's only a matter of time before that becomes a thing. Timewise, I think certain countries have gone through their whether you want to call it their, you know, crypto is is the worst thing, crypto is the enemy moment or choke point moment with crypto. Some countries have gone through that and gotten past that. The US is just now getting past that. Like

we're we're in the midst of getting past that and that opens like a huge flood of opportunity and potential. The fact that, you know, you mentioned in-laws when we kicked off the show, the fact that you can show up to family events and not be shunned anymore. That was only six months ago when it was like, why are you still doing digital assets in crypto? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. the I it's one of the themes that I constantly remind people is the you cannot understate the shift in policy in the US that has happened in the last 6 months and the massive tailwinds that has created and I think just as a result I feel like a broken record because I almost say this every day as a result of tariffs and the macro situation we kind of were so

shortsighted in our in our view and in our memory It's like we forget that, hey, 8 months ago we were dealing with an SEC and a government that was trying to choke us out and literally remove us from America. And that is like you the shift in that is just the the downstream effects of that are massive. Let me wait. You have that and then you've got like all these crypto week things coming up, right, with the Clarity Act and Market Structure and the Genius Act and CBDC anti-serveillance act. Like you've we went from what you were just explaining to it being a topic like this in a matter of 6 to8 months. That's unbelievable.

Let's talk about when we talk about treasuries. I just want to read a couple headlines here and then I want to get your thoughts on the different tokens that are being used in different treasuries because I think that most people still think of it as Bitcoin only. Um, but couple headlines. One is that Strategy announced uh, believe it or not, Sailor is buying more uh, raising another 4.2 billion uh, to buy more Bitcoin. Metaplanet last week added another 2,000 Bitcoin about 240 million. similar scient I think there's a rumor today about MetaPlanet actually using some of their holdings to acquire like crypto businesses too. I'd have to go back and check that but there's some new good there's some other news going on around there that might be interesting here.

Interesting. Now here's the one that stands out to me is Bit Digital. They swapped from Bitcoin treasury strategy to an ETH treasury strategy. And you and I were talking before our recording about SBET. They rang the bell in NASDAQ yesterday. They are getting a lot of attention on the Ethereum Treasury strategy side. Let's just chat about what's your thoughts on the these other tokens being used as a corporate treasury strategy.

You mean beyond Bitcoin and ETH or beyond? Beyond bit beyond Bitcoin. Let's talk beyond Bitcoin and then let's talk about some of the even let's go beyond let's talk ETH first maybe and then keep going down the list. Yeah. like just high level, right? There's there's an educational curve that's been going on forever. Uh so, full stop, we're still in the middle of that. Um I think, you know, I had a conversation with someone last week that was not unlike the conversation that I had with the Boston Globe 7 years ago. like you were we are still having the same conversations with certain groups or people that like just don't have the foundations of understanding where we're going, right? And so I think it's

important to recognize the educational path that we're on and where people's understanding of all of these assets are. Bitcoin, people are finally understanding. ETH, you can see what's happening there. I think as you go down and people become more educated, you're going to see some of these other things also pull into that where people can um get exposure to stuff that they are slowly starting to understand the vision for. In traditional finance, whales use the Bloomberg terminal. In crypto, they use Definitive, the trading terminal built by Coinbase alumni, which lets you trade across every major chain out there.

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during the chaos of 2022. If you're a long-term hodler, this is the move. Get liquidity without selling at milkroad.com/letin spelled ln. The other theme that I'm hearing is that there are a lot of protocols and founders out there who recognize that they need to for better or for worse they have a token and they need to think about supply and demand mechanics around that token. And as we mentioned a lot of especially when you go down the list and you're not talking about the top 10 where you there are indexes and there are ways to get exposure to them through

a lot of traditional finance means ETPs ETFs in various countries but when you go down the list there's a lot of tokens that you can only you can only buy them on chain right now and I've hearing that a lot of founders are thinking hey let's try to be a part of some sort of treasury strategy for our token so that we can allow all of these buyers, all this capital access to our token that they might not have access currently. Are you are you seeing that? Are we going to see a lot more treasure token treasury companies that aren't Bitcoin or aren't ETH or aren't Salana but actually are further down the list of

tokens? Yeah, I think we'll see a few, but I think it probably follows that list, right? I don't think we're going whoever is sitting in like a you know your your top your your 100 to 500. I'm not sure we see those doing digital asset treasuries. Um but for sure your top 20 25 30 like I think some of those become more interesting because as some of these institutions become more educated on what the potential is and what they can do and what the mandates of certain funds are, they'll want exposure to those things. So again, I I take it back to like the education curve that we're on and you're just going to go further and further down that path.

When you look at the education curve that we're on, what do you what do you see in in your seat in terms of the the education that you know you come from a a marketing background and a background that has worked in tech for most of your career and tried to explain tech to the masses. Where do you think we are in the masses understanding crypto and being able to adopt it? Well, we've come a long ways, but there's still a lot more work to be done, right?

When I first entered crypto, it was here is Sylvio Macaui's 72page white paper on math and economics. And it's 72 pages of math and economics just for the benefit of the audience, not my strong suit. And so to have to dive in there and there were no other resources. And this was only six or seven years ago. There were no other resources and there was nothing else that you could sort of lean on as a crutch like proof of stake wasn't a thing. And what did that mean? And cryptographic sort and what do you mean by these lottery mechanisms? And I think you know back then it was so tech heavy that you had to go down and learn that way. And so I had no other choice but to dive into that and really understand what was happening and what the

potential was. Today's a lot different. I mean, you go to Grock or you go to Perplexity and you somebody just walks you through what it is and the basics. It's amazing that more people aren't using those as crutches to just walk me through, okay, and then what and then what you could do, what could you do with this? What if you had to prove you're a person? What are the alternatives to different key management? And so, I think there's so much more education that's available right now. I think it's also uh a matter of um of what the use cases are and how people are being onboarded and and what they're interested in. Um I think not everyone can understand like super technical stuff and so they're having to to dive in in certain places that that

there's these highle use cases. I think I think there's opportunities for people to like explore more and you know it's scary to me that we're still having some of the same conversations but there's more to be done obviously. Yeah. It feels to me like for better or for worse speculation is the number one onboarding into crypto right now. Unless you're unless you're onboarding through stable coins, right? Like a lot of the onboarding is speculation around just opportunities to make money. And let's be real, there is a large societal shift happening of a feeling of, hey, I'm

never going to have the opportunity that my parents generation had. I'm never going to have the real estate market that they had. And you know, we'll see what happens. And that our opportunity is in new asset classes. And everybody's trying to get a leg up and to make more money. And inflation never stops. And that that that theme has led to a large speculative nature within crypto which is is is not a bad thing necessarily. It can be a bad thing because a lot of people get wrecked. And I I want to use that as a way to lead into one of the uh biggest players in this is Pump.fun. Uh and Pump.fun fund has just they're they're going to launch a token. It's

speculated that it is could be this week like this Saturday. Um let me just give you some of the numbers here, Kelly, and then you can you can comment here. So pumped up fun we all know has been super successful, right? Incredibly successful. They have uh been doing I think it's uh annualized 700 $800 million in annualized revenue. So, a true true accomplishment through basically taking a 1% fee off of all the trade trading that happens on their platform for all these tokens that are created. They made it very easy to launch meme coins. Okay, great. Total believer in what they've built. The thing I can't get us get away from is this token launch does not necessarily feel so good to me. So they're going to

launch this token and what they are proposing is that they're going to sell 15% of the supply at a price of 0.004 cents which would give them a fully diluted value of $4 billion. Okay, not totally crazy when you look at their revenue number to have that type of FTV. But here's my issue is they have not given any details in terms of is there going to be vesting on these tokens like they have not given any deals is there going to be an airdrop to users of another supply basically they're using this as like a raise for and is there do you even necessarily understand the

tokconomics behind the token. So they're they're not giving a lot of details. This feels very much to me like the uh Yugalabs other side moment of the last cycle when Yugalabs released other side. They had that big mint. They ra they they wasted millions of dollars in gas and it kind of marked the top of the NFT cycle and now people are saying hey this could be the top of the mean coin cycle. I don't know what your thoughts are on you you've worked with lots of projects on how to do token launches. How do you look at this and evaluate this and think this through?

Okay, first of all, gotta give Pump. Fun some credit for being able to like allow like obfuscate some of the mechanics of being able to do some of this stuff, right? So big huge check mark for empowering people. We have a couple other portfolio companies that do, you know, account abraction and chain obuscation and they like make it easy for companies and individuals to deploy and do stuff. I think the other thing is you made a comment about what what's the airdrop? What's happening? What's going on? I mean, do does everyone know everything about every tokconomic uh plan that they invest in? Like, that's probably a big question mark. Um, we were talking about that earlier. I've got friends that went and you know the

the the Trump launch comes to mind because they kind of did it on a Friday night, Saturday morning when no one was really paying attention and then poof it was just there and all these people aped into it because you know Trumpcoin and he was just elected versus um there was a portfolio company of ours that did a token around the same time frame. great company, stellar founder, much needed infrastructure for the industry and like you know instead of buying something with very clear token economics, with very clear use case, with very clear um need for it in the market, you know, they don't research any of that and want to get into any of that. It's like Trumpcoin, like it's a popularity

contest. So, you know, to your point of nobody knows all the details behind it, you know, I think that the memecoin era, that's just part of part of what that is. It's a little bit more um it's a little bit more let's see what happens. Uh I think there's also something to be said in terms of token launches. There's also something to be said for bringing your community along with you in a really smart way. I'm not saying that's what's happening here. I don't I'm not super involved with it. We're not investors. This is not financial advice.

No idea. But just anecdotally speaking, you know, there's something to be said for bringing your early supporters and your early community along with you. And some of the better projects like really do that. And their their initial builders or their initial founders or their initial investors or the initial people that really believed in them or bought the token or or mined the token or stood up a validator and ran that and helped get the network off the grounds. you want to bring that group along and you want to, you know, make them part of your wealth creation and the expansion journey and maybe this is just a part of that. That's, you know, some some hopeful thinking there. But I think that's a real thing when it comes to token launches.

I I I I completely agree. I mean, hype comes to mind as the standout of this past year where they really did bring their community along. They their community has done incredibly well as a result of hype doing well. And you can see that flywheel that that creates, right? It is so powerful when you have a army of users who are also invested in your project and want to push your project out to the masses and want to share it. And I mean, literally, they're the best form of Yeah. There's no other way. There's no other way if you unless you have an actual real community that's not paid bot followers. Like it's like, what are you what are you doing, right?

Okay, let's talk about just because you brought up um well, first actually I want I I want to touch quickly and I didn't mention this to you before the show so I don't expect you to comment on this but I want to talk quickly about Bonk just because we were talking about pumped up fund. The one thing that stands out to me is everybody who's been following uh Bonk has been ripping this past week and I kept on wondering what was going on. I mean it's up 50% in the last 14 days and Bonk has launched Bonk.f fund which is a competitor to pumpf fun and it has passed in the past week it has passed pumpf fun in terms of launches and fees. So you could also see this was always the issue I had with Pumped Up Fun is the it is their moat is

not very large in terms of they're pretty easy tech to replace and Bonk's been around for like quite a while now if you look at in comparison to pump right 22 versus 20 that's a two-year head start. Yeah. So, so we'll see. But I think everybody listening, keep an eye on Pub.fund. I would not be buying it personally at at launch or this this opportunity to buy their token sort of in this pre-sale kind of way that they're doing. It's very interesting like they're experimenting.

Super interesting. And some of the the only reason why I say it's been around longer like I think Bonk is listed on some of the major exchanges. So they've got that out of the gate and that I mean people have debated like why some of the original early chains from you know 2017 through 19 let's call it where there's not much happening but they're still trading and they're still up and they still exist with like high market caps. It's like well they've been around and they're still listed on major exchanges and it's just easy access. They're just there right? There's an element of that that comes into play.

Okay, let's check quickly. Another news item that came out yesterday was that the Trump admin is planning to publish their report on Bitcoin and crypto policy around July 22nd. Uh, and it may include recommendations on funding a strategic Bitcoin reserve. Thoughts on this news? Bullish on the US. Go America. I listen, I happened a little bit by accident in the room last July, so going on about a year ago when Trump gave the speech at the Bitcoin conference with David Bailey and the the crew down there who put on a fantastic event and I found myself in a phenomenal seat in this room. And to

hear the roar of 8,000 people indoors in a warehouse with Trump there like talking pro Bitcoin, pro crypto was phenomenal. and to see it come full circle in 12 months is absolutely amazing. So, you know, I think it's a really important step for us as a country. I think it's a really important nod to the asset class and I'm excited. Like I said, there's a bunch of legislation that's going through right now. We're involved in a couple of the organizations that are pushing this. I I've never seen so much involvement in politics and government in the crypto space. And it was January in 2019, I believe, when I first walked around um with our chief legal officer, walked around DC uh to some lobby lobby events

and meetings with members of Congress and beyond. We had 11 of them in one day. It was January. It was freezing. I think I walked three miles and like three or four inch heels. And it's just it's amazing how far we've come. And there's so many more people doing that. And there's so many organizations that are stood up. So I think it's exciting, bullish on America for sure. Yeah. Certainly uh the the shift in the policies in America and in particularly the SEC because so much of everything that's happened in the past 5 years has basically not been legislation been the SEC waving a wand and regulating the way they feel they can and they will. uh it has led I can't tell you how many

founders I've spoken to in the last three months even last two months in particular where they've said legitimately they're like oh I want to move my company to the US back to the want to move back or they just want to move here and that is you can't underestimate that p the power of all those founders in the US for for not just for the US I think also for crypto because let's be real here the US has a track record of being the best at creating tech companies. And so they have the talent, they have the necessary resources, they have the VC funding, they have all of the necessary setup in order to help these crypto companies get to the mass adoption that

we need and get to consumer. So I think it's it's not just bullish for America, it's bullish for crypto, too. Yeah. And you know even like I think what has been the hardest thing I remember swearing in front of a conference I got really passionate about talking about this but you know having to see really early stage founders who have an amazing idea and an amazing background to make it happen and they have to go raise like an extra million dollars just to wiggle their way around legal fees and setup structure because they were a crypto company. That was depressing. That was awful. Um it was a lot of wasted capital. It was a lot of wasted energy and effort. And to your point, you know, we see that as well.

And it just, you know, as a parent of four kids in this country and no, I'm not leaving. I don't really want to leave. Uh I think it's I think it's great to see it coming where we can be supportive of that in innovation and not make it not make it difficult and not put more and more hurdles in its path. Yeah, completely agree. Okay, before we wrap, I want to talk about one project uh when we talk about innovation. A project that I've been following uh and that we've covered a little bit maybe a year ago, not so much recently, is EtherFi. They've been doing really cool things with innovation in DeFi. And I want to start with a tweet that you shared uh was it earlier today or yesterday uh about about the numbers

that Eerie is achieving right now. I I'll let you uh give the context here around these numbers. Yeah, I haven't put in my notice yet and I wouldn't make a very good engineer. However, uh the Ether team is fantastic. The leadership team, they're growing, they're hiring. They um they are looking for a number of engineers. I think what was interesting about Slater's tweet, Slater just joined the team over there, heading up marketing, go to market, is that this is an example of a project and a company that's actually earning real revenue. um they're sending it back to uh some of the token holders. They're like doing great things with the token, with the ecosystem. They've got cash cards coming. They've got like they're doing buybacks. They're they're being

healthy about the um token and they're being like very proactive about where they think um they're going. It's it's a huge, you know, it's a huge DeFi project potential to be a huge leader in the future of crypto payments. um they've great product market fit and they're continuing to sort of innovate on top of the foundational stack they've built. So, you know, kudos to the team and they are for sure hiring and you know, I think now, you know, if you just want to take a quick step off of, you know, we we're coming off the regulation talk and it's okay to be in crypto now and the US is very uh pro crypto. You know, it's a great time to join a crypto company.

There are fantastic companies hiring. If you've debated taking the leap, like public service announcement, it's great over here. The water's warm. It's lovely. Um it's a good time to to be in the space and there's very healthy companies with very solid foundations and very um and very clear funding to drive them to the next level and beyond. So, you know, it's good. Huge fan of the Etherby team. Yeah. Yeah. These numbers that Slater shared, 500 million TBL per engineer, 35 34 million.

Can you expand that tweet? Can you expand his tweet? His was better than my retweet. I wasn't very creative there. 300%. Yep. Three growing at 300%. Probably the best available engineering jobs in crypto right now. Slightly biased, but I'm I'm not going to completely disagree with totally biased, but you know, it's it's 5 million five million in revenue per engineer, right? Like these are the numbers that you know whenever I it always makes me think of Tether whenever Tether shares their numbers you know it's just completely ridiculous the amount of revenue per employee right uh but this this is kind of giving me that same vibe and I think you're right like it is a very interesting time if you're looking for a to make a career shift now

is a very interesting time to join crypto in particular because let's be honest AI has sucked a lot of the out of the room, right? Like everything is going to AI right now and but crypto has very crypto is more is further along in its maturity than AI is. So you have more mature, more stable, as you said, revenue generating, product market fit companies that you could have a little bit more security at than I think a lot of the AI startups are still very early and you don't know what's going to happen a year from now, whether your product's going to work or not or whether somebody else is going to out compete you and build faster. So it is interesting take to say that now might be one of the best times to get a job

and to join crypto. I wasn't I wasn't planning on necessarily saying that. And it's growth. I mean, we see growth jobs. We see engineering jobs. Our portfolio companies are hiring like across a slate of backgrounds. It's not just engineering and technical. Um I, you know, there's there's great opportunities. There's growth roles. It's nice. We were talking about this earlier. You know, there's a lot of companies that it's it's no longer just your technical founder leading the company. they've brought on a CEO who's more focused on growth or they've brought on uh you know a a founding member that um that's more focused on BD and and relationship building. So, it's it's a great it's a great time to get into crypto. I think I've been saying this for seven years straight. Uh it was

very daunting seven years ago. I don't uh realize I don't think I realized what a deep end I had jumped into. And so I'm I caveat I've always been positive and bullish on the space, but now really is it's a great time and there's great companies to to be a part of. Just because we're an investor show, I got to pull up the EtherFi uh token chart. Uh no, not investment advice, everybody. You should do your own research and think for yourself. Uh Ethery token having a rough go. You know, it uh it launched back, was it April of 24? uh and did incredibly well off launch and was really tapping into uh the narrative of the time around staking and they were really a leader in that space and we had Mike the founder

on the show I remember I think around this time a year ago uh and but since then you know kind of chopping around I mean you could argue that it's found a a healthy floor maybe around uh just around a dollar but uh I don't know if you have any thoughts to share on their token I know you're investor in them so maybe you I have to be careful about what you say here, but anything you can share? Yeah, I'm not I'm not going to comment on token price. I just think that the team's continuing to innovate and they've sort of always been a leader in the space that they're playing in and they've got they've got more on their radar and their roadmap and you know they're hiring, they're growing. I think they're I think they'll continue to be a big player in the space. And you

mentioned token buyback too. Like that is the other that's the big thing that we keep talking about is if you do want to take the time to understand tokconomics and to dive into the underlyings of how a project is managing their token, really looking at the DeFi projects that have strong token buyback programs are that is that is an area that I feel like is not getting the attention it deserves. And those tokens when we see a bull market run again, those tokens are positioned to do very well in my opinion. Uh, Kelly, pleasure to get you on the show today. Thanks so much for joining us.

Thanks for having me, Jay. Thanks for listening in y'all. As always, I need to remind you that none of today's episode was financial advice. I'm not your investment adviser. Kelly is not your investment adviser. Should do your own research and always think before you invest. If you enjoyed today's show, please do me a favor. Give us a like, give us a subscribe, give us a review wherever you are listening. It'll take you just a few seconds and it'll make a big difference for us and for the show because we will make sure that any new crypto investor that comes into the space does so in a safe manner. Thanks for listening and y'all have a wicked awesome day. We'll see you back again tomorrow. If y'all are making swaps or trades right now, highly recommend you check out Milkroad Swap.

This is a DEX that we built in partnership with Cow Protocol. Why do we build it? not to make money, just honestly so we could have a place to do our swaps for the lowest fees that we could find. This is the fees on Ethereum, Arbitum, and Bass are only.15% fees. Uh this is a huge difference from uh other centralized exchanges that charge half a percent or even up to 1.2% fees on their swaps. Also, you can swap on Salana all at swap.mmillgrow.com. Check it out today. you won't be upset and you can join me in my favorite place to make swaps on chain. As always, if you liked today's episode, please hit subscribe and make sure you follow us so

you don't miss out on the next one. There's also a link in the description to our free 5minute daily newsletter where we simplify crypto for you while making you laugh. And if you're willing to step up your crypto investing game, we're going to also leave a link for Milk Road Pro. You get access to our portfolio where you can see exactly what we are buying. This is your number one resource to help you invest successfully in crypto. One final note, this show is for educational purposes only and nothing we say is financial advice. Investing in crypto or any asset is risky and you should never invest more than you can afford to lose. Thanks so much for listening in my friends. Have a wicked awesome