Jesse Eckel's 2025 crypto predictions

Transcript

GM good morning welcome to the milk Road show Merry Christmas happy holidays everybody we're the daily crypto show that's as rewarding as finding the remote right where you left it I'm your host Jay Hamilton and today we are joined by Jesse eeko founder of oath packed Venture and fellow podcaster fellow YouTuber this guy's pumping out content on the RS and some of the best content I believe out there in the space today we are talking about Jesse's predictions for 20 25 and buckle up everybody he's got some bullish predictions that you guys are going to be pumped about some great takes before we jump in and hear from Jesse just need to take a moment to hear from our sponsors who make the show possible

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love it okay I'm not going to waste any time jumping in let's start with your predictions for 2025 starting at the top with the we're kind of giving we're giving away the juice a little bit here at the top but we're going to start with your Bitcoin Market top prediction for 2025 yeah yeah so my my Bitcoin price prediction is that I think we're going to see Bitcoin hit around 170,000 to 190,000 this cycle so I actually feel like that's probably more of a conservative take that's quite conservative yeah yeah yeah yeah I've heard 250,000 I've heard 500,000 but I think 170,000 190,000 is where it's going to end up Landing unless we have a blowoff top so if we see a blowoff top like we saw in 2017 obviously it could

go quite a bit higher maybe that's when we hit 250,000 but I think if it's more like the 2021 cycle it's it's uh within that range well and the other thing to know about a blowoff top is like and with all these predictions is if it does have that blowoff top it's such a short time period right like can you actually sell at that I a two things I always want to say to our listeners one don't don't make your sell decisions in your trade plan based upon a price Target alone like follow other indicators please listen to our show that'll help you out uh and but also whatever you think the market top is don't plan to sell at that price because very few

people catch that price like that's a difficult thing to do okay okay so a little bit a little bit I'm not going to say bearish I mean that's still bullish that's obviously I'm super bullish on bitcoin and I think there's so many catalysts you have the Strategic Reserve you have just the idea of people even front running the even a strategic Reserve doesn't happen in the US you're gonna have countries gonna try to front run that um you have the ETF flows which year-over-year should continue to to to grow so there's so many Catalyst I think are really bullish for Bitcoin um that's mostly based on the fact that if you actually look uh all the way back to like the start of Bitcoin um each cycle man I forget exactly how I did this but I went through and tried to find any sort of pattern I could and it's it's

like each cycle the amount it goes up I think it was like uh is like cut in half and so if you just used the like the the consistent pattern that's where it would stick at 170 to 190 so it was mostly based off of that and man those Cycles have just held so tight and those patterns have been so consistent that I think as a default that's like a really healthy place to sit but but long long term I think bitcoin's going a million like I think long term we're going to see it hit a million like no problem I I just think this cycle it's so big it's like a multi- trillion dollar asset and the amount of capital you have to P put push in there to move it up to 250,000 350,000 is a lot of capital so again we could have a blowoff top and maybe that

pushes it up but Bing the blowoff top I think that's a healthy 170 190 that's a lot of money that's more money than it's ever coming to Bitcoin in any cycle ever coming into Bitcoin so it's still very very bullish yeah yeah it's a great Point yeah I think that uh I think that what we see and I want to talk about your thoughts on the Strategic reserve and whether you think that happens so that in a second uh but I think that what we see with Bitcoin is that it is it is just the the simple longterm play like I'm at the point now where people are and I'm sure you're the same like you know your friends and your family are reaching out and asking you about crypto and like that's only going to increase like a lot over the next year but basically I keep it pretty

simple now and it Black Rock just just recommended 2% allocation of everybody's portfolio to bitcoin so I just say like look I I don't mean to simplify it this much but I'm kind of like bitcoin's made it I think for decades it averages somewhere between 10 10 to 20% annual year-over-year growth right that's very and I think that's a very conservative estimate who was it that um predicted vanck predicted Bitcoin would would do I think 16% a year and it would hit three million by 2050 if it did 16% a year so like that's when you actually say those numbers like that's not anything crazy but but I do think that like uh for basically what I think you're saying is

you think Bitcoin dominance is going to come down and going more into altcoin season so let's talk about that in a second but before we go there strategic Reserve you think it happens us strategic Reserve okay so I think I had this on my predict yes I did okay so yeah I think the Bitcoin strategic Reserve happens and I'm actually more bullish on this than most people I think in 2025 okay really wow yeah most I I'm I'm going to it doesn't happen in 2025 uh so the way I think it happens I've listened to a lot of the the Trump talks on it and the podcast from from everyone else and I think people go to they like are thinking of it in a weird way and it's not how he said it um they're

they're thinking of it how RFK and Cynthia lumus is saying it which is like bit uh the US buying Bitcoin all that um Trump wants to do is move the Bitcoin we already own not sell it put it into like basically change it from this ledger to that ledger and now it's our strategic Bitcoin reserve and that that's just like super easy like boom let's move it over done now the idea of like the government buying Bitcoin that's a lot bigger of a hurdle I don't know that that'll happen in 2025 but um I don't think it matters if they move it to their balance sheet and it's like this is our strategic Bitcoin Reserve every other country now has to think of a strategic Bitcoin Reserve type play and they're going to start start buying it in anticipation that we'll buy it and it

com kind of becomes its arms race and so um that's more how I'm thinking of it yeah that's a great Point there's a big difference between them offici Al saying they're not going to sell the 200,000 Bitcoin that they have versus what Cincy lumus said which was we're going to buy 200,000 Bitcoin a year for five years big big difference and and you know when you put it like that I might I definitely don't think they're going to sell the 200k I think the the question is will they officially announce as you said this this shift from hey this Bitcoin we have is now is officially our strategic Reserve because that would be just that new would be a major Catalyst as you said because all of a sudden

every other country is like holy [ __ ] we got a America's doing this we basically have to do this now exactly exactly and I think it depends on and I don't know the nuances of the political system do know if they can or how easy this is it's probably pretty easy I could probably just look it up on chat gbt I probably should um but it depends on how hard it is if Trump can just sign it and say hey this is don't sell it Bitcoin strategic Reserve if it's pretty much that easy then yeah that's a done like it'll probably get done within the first like 100 days of the president presidency if it's that easy and again if you listen to what he said at his Bitcoin talk like a Bitcoin 2024 that's what he said he did not say he'd buy

Bitcoin he said he would just move it over and that's our Bitcoin strategic reserve it was RFK that said he would be buying Bitcoin he was really bullish on it and it was Cynthia lumus that that proposed a bill to buy Bitcoin those are I think those are two different things you got to look at them different I think he'll do the easiest move first that honors is uh what he said Al you know Bitcoin strategic Reserve he said he would do that I think he's going to follow upon that promise but I think it's just moving it on the balance sheet really really bullish uh but that second that second part is U more questionable it's a great Point okay let's go to altcoin season and uh I want to go to your prediction for the biggest alt uh eth if you even call eth an ALT anymore

yeah give us your prediction for for eth okay so my my prediction for eth is that we'll see eth between 13,000 and $220,000 this cycle and it's a pretty big range that is based off of again crypto is really weirdly good at following patterns much more so than any other asset class or at least much more than I'm aware of any any other asset class and um around this time so late December early January eth dominance or Bitcoin dominance falls off a cliff and we saw see eth kind of take over the The Narrative of the not the narrative but the the rein of the market so it kind of dictates the strength of the market so as eth goes up alts go up that kind of thing and and during this time frame you see like e the eth the Bitcoin ratio hit

with the certain range right so last cycle I don't I don't remember the exact one it was but like if you look at 2017 and 2021 th those are the two numbers so if it hits 2017 e dominance it's around $20,000 if it hits 20 um 21 dominance it's around $133,000 so I think you know that makes sense especially if you look a lot of people are are over complicating this and I think um they're they got like current like bias of what's currently happening and uh a lot of the stuff they've been watching all bare Market they just forget they forget that this happens every single time eth always has this epic comeback and uh if you look at the ETF flows there's been a couple days where eth flows have done better than Bitcoin and if you told me that was even gonna I would have thought

that was impossible you know not impossible but like very unlikely um you know even eight months ago so with that happening it just kind of shows me that people are going to do what you expect them to do which is when Bitcoin hits a certain price point there's just a subset of investors that are like o Bitcoin seems pretty high and therefore kind of risky but what about this ether thing this we have access to this via the ETF uh maybe that'll go up next and so they're going to allocate into eth as kind of a a beta play to to bitcoin because it has gone up as much and because eth is so much smaller it just takes a smaller amount of capital to move in if it's getting this bigger Flows In Bitcoin even on small time frames that's just going to move it up a

lot and so um I don't think it surpasses Bitcoin or anything like that but I do I do think it could hit the 2017 or the 2021 uh ratio which gives it a price of around 13,000 to 20,000 yeah it's a great take I agree with a lot of what you're saying the EF absolutely ripping right now which yeah feels so good because it was struggled so much throughout the throughout the year since it's launch in the summer okay let's go to your your next prediction is one that I really like and I really want everyone to listen to this one go for it so I I think we're going to see a major dip in January of 2025 and that again comes to the fact that that isn't even in just on in the Bull Run uh Cy of the cycle like last

year like in general January we see this dip I think it maybe has something to do with taxes or whatever but there's typically a major dip but if you look at like back at 2017 2021 both had dips in January of the Bull Run year both those dips were about exactly 30% and umit but they ALS yeah in Bitcoin in Bitcoin yeah yeah ALS could be a little different um but but the interesting thing is uh right before those dips so uh if you look at the second half of December in the year before the Cycles we see like Bitcoin go parabolic in the second half so typically in 2017 it like massively ran up right and in in 2021 it massively ran up and then it dipped in January and

uh the interesting thing is so in the 2021 when it dipped in January or in 2017 when it dipped in January it dipped about down to where it would be right now so it dipped kind of where it started it went all the way up and it kind of roundt tripped in 2021 it went way up and it only went down a little bit it never came back down to where it started so it's kind of hard to tell it's not like it's going to be such a major dip that you're going to be able to get in at cheaper prices than today it's uh according to what we've seen in the past it's either about the same prices or maybe a lot higher and then uh typically after that Bitcoin then goes even like radically more nuts after that dip and it just just is Off to the Races

at that point okay I love that because I think I also think a pullback is coming and I I think 20 to 30% Bitcoin pullback is very very reasonable and also not out of pattern at all very typical uh and the important thing to know there is a few important things to know one is if Bitcoin goes back 20 to 30% you better believe that alt coins are going back even more and meme coins are pulling back even more so be ready for a lot of volatility and the second is that is not when you [ __ ] sell everybody that is not when you sell I mean like I don't want to do your own research and make your own decisions everybody but that is those are the moments when like human psychology really comes in and everybody's like oh this is it it's over

I'm out and you sell on the low and like if you have conviction as Jesse and I do and a lot of people in the space do that 2025 is going to be a big year uh that is actually when if you had some extra Capital you might look to buy at that point you don't even need a ton of conviction because the reason it crashes at the end of a bull cycle has to do with like all the leverage and unhealthy state of the market and so it's like a Jenga tower that you've removed all the Jenga pieces and you've made it really big because you removed those pieces but it makes it really unstable but we're not like that right now we just had a big liquidation um last week we're we're sitting healthy we we very healthy at at this point and so when you see that

pullback the reason it's so bullish is because everyone sitting on the sidelines right now is like watching this price and especially if you see it run up in December they're just like they're sweating because they're like oh my gosh I like I need to be in this I need to be in this like I screwed up I should have bought I should have bought I should have bought so when they see that pullback they think now's my chance and they jump in there that dip gets eaten like crazy and that's what skyrockets at after so it's actually an integral part of like like kickstarting the Bull Run is that crazy 30% DP yeah I want let me just pause on the uh going through the list for a second you overall step back 2025 year ahead you think we're we're in for for a big year

you think this is gonna be yeah this could be the year man this could be our.com bubble uh kind of year this could be the year to end all years it's possible I I mean if you wanted a more perfect setup I just I couldn't like write you one that's that's that's why it's so bullish it's just like the most ultimate like if you if you had like a superpowers to craft like I'm going to like write the most perfect bullish setup of all time you could not write like tell me tell me one thing you could add it could make it more bullish than what currently exists because I actually can't think of anything it's that bullish it's literally Perfection so yeah it's 25 255 if if there was ever a year for an epic Bull Run it's next year yeah I completely agree this setup is

truly insane from from all sides from the macro side from the developer side uh from from just the where we are within this cycle where we are in accord to patterns like it's all looking so good okay you think eth gets to 13 to 20,000 by the end of the cycle what do you think happens with eth end of December early January so uh that's I mentioned a little bit earlier but that's when it kicks in high gear typically so that's when eth takes the rign to the market and kind of takes over the narrative again it it doesn't even necessarily have to outperform bitcoin it just dictates the market like before this Bitcoin is price action dictates the market after that point eth's price action dictates the market and that has

to do with eth just being plugged in more places even if you go in salana like you buy eth on salana you all all these l2s are chalk full of eth everyone's treasuries chalk full of eth a ton of asset pairs eth um so so eth is just everywhere it's like the currency of crypto at currently at this point and so when it goes up there's just a massive wealth effect that's created uh where where a ton of people just have a lot more money you can that allows a lot more leverage to enter the system so it's just so good if you're like the ultimate salana Maxi and you're like I love salana like your entire life savings in salana you like you should be on your niece praying for eth to go up because if eth goes higher now your like narrative is like we're gonna be the

next eth and now eth's at5 trillion dollars so we're going to five trillion like that is the closer you get to eth's Price Right now the slower Sal will go the higher eth goes the more room you have to run so like eth is going up is good for everything literally everything so uh that's really really bullish for all of crypto that's a great take man this is a great take uh okay so eths end of December end of January then then what happens in February then it's all season then it's okay well you could it depends how you define all season because all been doing really good already so it's it's definitional but like uh the way I Define it you could definitely Define right now as like I I kind of think of as pre- alt season pre-positioning because like uh I think

all season is like the Mania like when when alts are it like that's what's hot that's where you want to be like you are just popping off but obviously February is like you kind of wish you were in alts before February not after but February is when alts just like start skyrocketing and again really simple principle of Bitcoin goes up people like oh no I missed out on that what's next and so then they're looking at eth and xrp and like anything that kind of think is like gonna go up next if Bitcoin goes up and then those things go up uh specifically eth and then they're like a I missed out on that and then that's when like it just like it's so the the possible rotations of like beta are so wide that it just like starts hitting the whole stack and that's when alts

start popping off because if you miss out you're gonna always look for the next opportunity always and uh that and alts are it and the crazy thing about alts is like Bitcoin to eth they're they're both so big that when like it's not like eth's gonna Skyrocket 100x it's like doing a two or 3x a lot of Wells created but it's not like as big of headlines but the lower you go down the stack it's now it's like a 30 somebody made a 30X on this one and then they made a 300X on this one and somebody made a 3,000 x on this one so the headlines get bigger the like potential for wealth gets bigger and it just starts pulling everyone in so I think that that kicks off in February we're gonna have a full and all season all these people who've been like utility

coins are dead it's me uh super cycle they you know they were um they were consensus they were the average and uh you know they a lot of them aren't positioned for this and it's going to be pretty rough for them when this starts kicking off although do think memes will probably do pretty well uh later in the cycle MH okay okay let's go to crypto AI you got a very bold prediction for crypto AI give us that yeah I don't even feel like it's that bold I feel like this this one's pretty much obvious and that that we're going to see at least one crypto AI project cross1 100 billion do in market cap at least one is going to cross 100 billion last cycle is like B&B hit over 100 billion not very many it was like you were super special if he

made it past 100 billion last cycle but but if you look at cycle before that is like um you were super special if you made it past 50 billion right it's like eth sitting over 100 billion was like what was normal so there's this Watermark effect so the higher Bitcoin and the higher eth go it's like the imagination of everyone gets bigger and so now everything else can go higher because they're like oh you know bitcoin's at five trillion dollars now and East at let's say like three trillion in the middle of the bull and they're like well now salana could go to two trillion and now uh that means maybe arbitrum could go to 800 billion and it's just like everyone's mindset kind of Po pumps up and I think AI is the most consensus bet of like when your mom your grandma your cousin shows up like I

don't know if they're going to buy like Layer Two stuff or like you know um you know reaking stuff uh maybe they'll throw it in there they're not GNA really know what that is but they definitely will know what AI is and they'll want to just plow a ton of money in there even if it's stupid because they haven't had any way to invest in a they know AI is super hyped they know it's the future and they're like oh I can invest in Nvidia for like $3 trillion in market cap like what am I gonna make on that so they don't really have a way to play it and then there's like these tiny cryptos sitting at hundred you know million dollars they're like oh my gosh like my life savings going this thing and so I think you're just gonna have some of

these things just pump uncontrollably because they're so uh consensus and you're gonna see at least one hit over 100 million dollars Mark cap 100 billion dollars Mark cap yeah it would be I I I don't I don't disagree I think I think that I think that 2025 is the year of of crypto AI I think it will be the biggest I think 2024 was the year of memec coins I think that's what 2025 is going to be the challenge that I have is as an investor is like where to allocate within crypto AI right like how do you how do you pick which one is going to be like let's say you're right one gets to 100 billion yeah but is it is it is it near and you're going more like the blockchain that's supporting crypto AI is it is it an AI agent is it a memec

coin that's endorsed by an AI agent I don't know if you've got thoughts on that so so so the way you do it would be you look at okay you don't know which one's going to pass 100 maybe it's to maybe it's a near maybe like who knows what it is one of it pass 100 billion well when one AI crypto pass 100 billion what will people do they're going to look at it and they're be like oh but what's going to be the next tow what's going to be the next sare and so they're going to look at all the things that could that are also AR related that could also pass 100 billion and so if you position like say you position among like pretty good ones right like maybe five or 10 pretty good ones and say put like let you shouldn't actually position

like this but like as a thought experiment you put a, into each and you did 10 of them right if one of those does a 50x all the other nine could go to zero and you've made you turn your $10,000 into 50,000 so it's like uh you can make beta plays off of that in like in win without knowing which one's going to hit 100 billion think of that as more like a big bat signal to like for that whole sector to just rally way higher okay I love that let's look at uh your next prediction I'm I'm reading it on on my screen here I feel like we already talked about this prediction or maybe maybe you have some more insights to give this one's General fullon Mania mode in 2025 crypto uh is insane bullish retail comes back price are skyrocketing higher levels than most anticipate I

think the the the big things that maybe we haven't hit on is retail coming back that is that we're already seeing that on my backend on my YouTube channel it's like everything's like the green arrows the green arrows are all pointing up and it's um if I look back at last year when we're kind of in a little Mania mode in February it's like significantly higher like retail is back they are they are hitting hard and they're going to continue to drip in you know the more the more this stuff Stu pop starts popping off the other thing is price is higher skyrocketing higher than people anticipate we kind of hit that with the waterm marks but this happens every cycle is that prices will get unreasonable unreasonable and you're going to try to logically be like okay this thing should like reasonably do a

10x and they gonna do a THX or 10,000x and you're going to like have sold at like an 8X and you're going to be like like doesn't compute in my brain or whatever the the odds of you like paper handing like some insane runup are like pretty high and at least for me like I I'm willing to let my brain kind of some logic go on C certain things just knowing that hey like it's okay if it disconnects from reality because that's what happens in a bull run things get frothy things get go way too high that way higher than you expect and you kind of have to just hold on for the ride and be okay with that yeah it's that's the toughest thing as an investor is cuz I I fully agree with you and and I think I I everybody listening if you've never been

in a cycle before expect exactly what Jesse is saying things will not make any [ __ ] sense like if you are if you come from the trafi world and maybe you understand how to do like valuations of stocks and valuations of equities you cannot value any of this stuff right like there it makes no sense the fundamentals go completely out the window right but here's the problem is at the same time everybody everybody becomes obsessed with that and the Euphoria kind of takes over and you're going to have we're already seeing it like I saw somebody predict two million Bitcoin in 20125 recently and I was like what are you doing and everybody goes insane and it's like I almost want to make a YouTube video that says two million Bitcoin

because I know I'd get more views then I get on my you know current 200k 240k Target like it's not enough for people but the problem is so like how do you balance that how do you balance the because I I I'm sure you agree with me on this one I'm curious actually one of my biggest predicts and my biggest fears is that people will not take profits too many people will round trip so I get really worried about that so I don't how do you balance it for sure Mo most people want take profits and they're going to round trip I don't think you're going to stop that people get too greedy I mean if if you have control of your greed you'll make money if you don't have control of your greed you're going to lose money and so um at the end of

the day you can blame yourself for being too greedy that's why you lost money if you go around trying to point fingers at you know everyone in their mom you're just not going to learn your life L and you're going to do the same thing next cycle the next cycle after that next cycle after that um they're going to go higher than you expect and really the thing to I don't know you can't lose taking profits for sure but you have to you have to know yourself and have strong discipline because what'll happen and I've seen this happen so many times is you'll be the smart guy at the start of the cycle where you'll take your profits on the adex and you actually thought you were being risky doing that to be honest you'll take your profits and you watch that thing a THX you'll start counting

the amount of millions you could have had and then you it's like it's like you lost that amount of money even though you didn't and so then you'll try to make it back by doing even more risky things later in the cycle and then you lose a fortune and I've seen people do this over and over again so that's kind of the hard part of selling too early you can't lose taken profits but you have to know yourself and be okay with hey I might be selling this thing my a THX I'm okay with that because you know what I'm GNA keep taking profits every cycle and maybe over two cycles I'll hit a ton of money uh because it depends on your plan but you got to have a if you don't have a plan going into this you will get wrecked because the uh the

emotional coaster of the cycle uh will take you in the direction most people go and most people lose that that's how that's how it goes if you want to average people don't make billions of dollars investing in crypto only the outliers do only the people on the fringes who think differently end up actually making a fortune yeah that's a great point the other my other best advice is do not take your profits all at once right like DCA in and DCA out or maybe you don't DCA out but just do some sort of the the the my favorite on this one is is zenica and he comes on the show every few weeks and he always says the same thing he just says he's like when you take profits if you if you are afraid that you might miss out and I'm

talking like taking profits I'm not talking taking profits on bitcoin here I'm talking taking profits on like a more of a bet that you made on a meme coin or on an L1 like a lot of the tokens that are going to drop 90% and everybody listening in a lot will drop 90% at the end of this cycle so most and and I think you agree with me like we're in Cycles still like this isn't the whole super cycle thing is not going to be a thing guys like we're not there yet we're still controlled by liquidity and we're still controlled by interest rates and all these things that are not they they exist outside of crypto but is take leave some in right like so maybe you take profits leave 10% in leave a moon bag in and then that way if it does go

to the moon at least you feel like you got a piece of it okay your next prediction gets a little bit technical but I like this one man uh it kind of connects back to we had Ryan Wyatt on the podcast from optimism a few months ago and he talked about this but give it to us okay so by the end of 2025 we're going to more or less have solved interop between segments of chains and soon after just most of the space and the reason this is so important is because the way you think of crypto will change uh by the by the next cycle so uh you're you're not going to think of like all this chain tribalism that's going to be gone uh the idea of like even like building on this Chain versus that chain will have nothing to do with tribal

tribalism or like users or here or whatever because you'll be able to move seamlessly between chains as if they're all kind of one chain so there's just so many solutions out there when you have like cross chain intense with something like a cross um so that's like maybe a ux fix but then on the back end like tech-wise you have like all these kind of cluster chains like optimism is going to have their super chain you have ZK sync going to have their uh elastic chain and so you're going to have those sort of things you have shared sequencers which are going to make it a little bit each of them is like a piece of the puzzle you have things like polygon's agare which is kind of like a a neutral layer that would that actually could connect something like the op super chain with the elastic chain and

actually they don't even have to opt into it they would have to they they can uh force them to connect to it so there's all sorts of solutions coming to where you know by next cycle you're not you're not going to be looking at chains uh as like these generalized chains but more like specialized chains and so um the reason you'd build on a specific chain might be like this is a privacy chain and you're building a privacy based app or you want your own app chain uh that kind of thing so it's just going to fundamentally kind of warp people's perspective and um and it's just coming way sooner than people think yeah I completely agree okay let's go to your your next few predictions here are more related to what narratives we could see uh pop off in 2025 yeah yeah so the first one is nfts

make a comeback later in 2025 and I am firm and of the firm belief this just one again also feels really obvious and I think a lot of people I don't understand people do they do the same things every cycle and they're like shocked that like the same things happen every cycle it's like you have like this road this like historical pattern of like these things always happen and then they're like shocked when it happens again they're like I don't understand how happened again it's like it's just it's the same song and repeat but um so nfts are a late cycle phenomenon they are a uh when people are wealthy they go buy nfts they're not going to spend $13 million on a uh ether Rock that's literally a picture of a rock when they're poor but when they have so much money they don't know what to do with it

they might as a joke spend $13 million on a nft rock and so when they have money they're going to bit they bid up nfts and it's it's luxur adem like a Rolex like a Lamborghini it's a status symbol and so it's like anything when you see one collection really start popping we're in a mini we're in mini nft bull run right now but this isn't the real one when uh wels around and you start to see one collection do well people are going to start bidding all the way down the stack and you're going see the same thing we saw last cycle it might be a little different maybe Gary ve is not jumping in it but there's so much money in uh the space now that you could actually have a a far bigger outcome for nfts as a whole because again there's just way more liquidity

this cycle everybody that's listening is going to kill me if I don't ask you which nfts you think are going to pop off but I'm going to actually reframe the question slightly for you so you don't have to necessarily spec pick specific nfts because if anybody listened to you pick specific nfts they probably should do their own research anyways uh so but my main question is how to think because I agree that nfts are like like cycle phenomenon and they will have their moment I I fully buy into that the thing I struggle with is is to think about like which nfts and not specifically which ones but more so um how to think about when nfts pop off will it be the there's so many ways to

so maybe you want to make the play of more like the picks and shovels and you're more looking at like magic Eden token because you believe that like nfts pop off and Magic Eden will do well as a result of it maybe it's more like there's a few few specific nfts like crypto punks that feel like that almost feels like a given maybe Apes pedy penguins like you know like the really like the blueto right but where I struggle is like what about all the NFS that were created in the last cycle you know they're it's not like they're all gonna go yeah so think of 2017 to 2021 so 2017 if you go in like the like if you're round 2017 or you go back on coin market cap you look at like what

was popular at the height of the 2017 Market you would not recognize if you weren't around back then 99% of the tokens there there's a few you would recognize but most of them you're not going to recognize in the same way uh I think you're going to see like the if you were to go back on the charts on you know High to 2021 nft cycle uh what you'll see next cycle is you're you're not going to recognize most of them but you're going to recognize a few so you're going to have things like probably Apes uh for sure Crypt punks uh for sure pudgy like you're going to have some things that were like really big blue chips they'll make make a comeback and then the longtail like probably 99% of those to uh nfts from last cycle will not make a comeback they'll be like uh

the eos's the aons the uh Neo if anyone remembers that there'll be like those type of things uh during the cycle there's going to be new project there's gonna be like new metas and new projects that emerge just like we saw Unis swap a and all this kind of stuff pop off in 2021 right now I kind of think the meta it's always a bar higher right so like 2017 it was hey if uh if I have a cool name uh I'm I toota and we're like not a blockchain we're like way better than you know whatever I have a cool name and a white paper you do really well you had to you delivered zero product nobody was doing anything on chain you did well 2021 we people were actually doing things on chain we actually were swapping on chain we were delivering products we had cash flow we had Revenue

way different world okay so the bar got raised that and you have to have that bar raised so nft is gonna be the same thing I think this cycle what you're going to see is kind of this I think like Pudgies where like pudgy has like a business it's like not related necessarily to nft but like there's like an actual company uh involved they have physical toys they have this uh meme coin token they have these like games and a chain and all kinds of stuff you look at madlads madlads on on Solana they have like an exchange they have uh their own wallet you know there there there's more to it than just than just an nft collection it's it's not like your average person could go do all those things um one of my favorites from this cycle is uh nft collections really

small still called Persona they have have a te a team they're all EX Ubisoft developers they worked on games like Far Cry games like the division they left that to build a crypto gaming studio so they have a crypto gaming studio they have an AI game coming out uh next year and so uh they have like a pretty cool platform so it's like this again the bars race your average person like last cycle there was like a 12-year-old that launched an nft whale collection and made like millions or whatever your your average 12-y old couldn't do what madlads and Pudgy and Persona is doing so I think that's the new meta is like the bar is going to be raised and there's like more of a um a quality check if you want to invest into something yeah okay you mentioned gaming what do you think about gaming for 2025

okay so one of my big and like this is a high conviction belief is that crypto gaming is a breakout hit in 2025 I think this is inevitable me too man let's go I'm glad we're on the same P not many people are on this one with me so okay this is not consensus at all if you talk to most people in crypto they have so like a full argument like they'll pull out a paper the pocket of like this is why crypto gaming can never succeed and like this is widely consensus is the exact opposite I was at Art basil or art basle or whatever and uh I talked to so many PE I got laughed at actually on a a shuttle because they just thought it was so stupid the idea that crypto gaming come back and for me I was like oh my

gosh it is so early in crypto gaming because it's inevitable even okay uh for one all the money and funding that came into crypto gaming attracted a lot of talent that just wasn't there in 2021 2021 the games were like what can we rush to Market two months they they sucked whatever uh that attracted a ton of M money a ton of capital and they've been building for years so you have a ton of crazy good games coming out triaa teams have come they've left the traditional space to join because it's so easy to fundraise in crypto you can raise a billion for a mecoin you can also raise you know a lot of money for a crypto game so so you have that element just tons of really good games launching but here's why I think it doesn't even matter like let's imagine that wasn't

the case there wasn't a ton of really quality games like AAA quality games coming to Market even without that I think it would happen and the reason is is it's just like nfts people have way too much money late stage in the cycle and then they start bidding on some of these gaming assets so it's like you know whatever it is they're like oh yeah maybe this will go up and so just like they're bidding on $13 million in ether rocks maybe some of these gaming assets they bidding up to 100,000 200,000 there's there's some certain level that once these things become valuable enough that's the like bat signal for all these like uh last cycle was people in the Philippines but like these people like users to flood in and play the games because like now they can make 500 bucks a a week or a day playing this game and

because all these users flood into the game and they're playing it that's like the metric for everyone to be like oh my gosh these are actually valuable so they bid the assets up higher and the assets going higher brings in even more people and then that bids the assets it's like this reflexive Loop and so people just start storming these games and when one game pops off then everyone's like well what's going to be the next axi infinity and so then the other games pop off so it's like it's just it's it's human psychology it's inevitable it will happen when there's wealth to be distributed around it's going to be again to towards the the later end of the cycle but when it happens it's going to be like a gold rush and unlike AI which is consensus and all those pretty much all the gems have been bit up

there's so many on the ground like one million two million3 million crypto gaming market cap projects that will that will be bit up to the Moon that people are just sitting on I'm telling you right now watch this video in a year from now and like oh my gosh you'll be thinking people should listen to that guy because he was right okay uh I got to ask some specifics uh if there is any like what what trades you like think gaming but before I do the reason I think you're one of the main reasons I think you're right and I love that you talked about patterns so much in this show is do you remember remember dookie Dash the uh the Y Labs game and so duy Dash was like a shitty game you know like a very like basic mobile I don't even remember

mobile or Des but it was it was it was not a great game like it was very basic like Frogger or something like that uh and and remember that guy won the golden key and then sold it for it was an nft and he sold it for a million dollars at the peak of the last cycle and so like there's the perfect example and dooky Dash was a gated game you had to have like access you had to have tokens or there was some token access to it wasn't even an open game right so it's not even like everyone could play it and that that was one thing that happened in the last cycle related to kind of related to gaming I guess maybe you said it more related to nfts but there's so we want to know something insane right now I was at a

dinner with the founders of big time so I like got invited this dinner down in Florida and the founders of big time were there and I was just like talking to them big time's like a game from last cycle most people don't even remember it I don't even know big time what's what's big time it's like this game that was kind of big last cycle they have a token and stuff like that um but they were telling me that o over the course of 2024 in profit they made I I might butcher this but it's between 100 million and $150 million in profit and this is like a a no name game that like nobody even talks about on crypto Twitter yeah yeah yeah so that's according to them that's according to the founders so unless they were lying to my face that's insane and that's in

the middle of the bare Market okay so these things are not only like they're they're profitable they're making money and honestly in my in my head it is one of the most obvious use cases of crypto I actually think crypto gaming here's another prediction will on board over time more users than any other thing in crypto like combined like just it the the vast majority of users will get onboarded into crypto through crypto gaming it's not how people crypto gaming is not how people picture it whenever I have a conversation they have like this outdated view of it but yeah I I think crypto gaming will be massive massive okay so what what's what's the trade ah Manan that that's kind of hard there's there's lots of trades right like you go the Blue Chips right now um would be like immutable in Ronin right

Ronin is actually still doing really good they have more users than they had at the height of 2021 so at the height of 2021 it's like almost double actually the amount of active users again there's so much happening behind the scenes people aren't aware of um so they they uh and it's not from axi uh it's from pixels I think is their their game that's just been really taken off yeah yeah yeah we had him the founder pixels on the podcast like a year two years ago he's real gigabrain incredible team really like what they're doing yeah and then I think IM mutable big Breakout game has been Raven Quest that's been doing really good you have things like uh gonzilla Off the Grid and um shrapnel and uh is it shatter Point like those are pretty good AAA Shooters um so there's a lot of good games as far as to

it's really hard to call which ones are going to be the biggest um I'm just focusing on like more like gems like like low quality so not low quality uh low market cap gems so right now um I'm I'm invested in Una so that's from so Persona The nft Collection they have a they have a token as well una the uh yagi's the the gaming studio and that's sitting at like $3 million in market cap and so when it's so tiny here's the thing it's so tiny if you actually believe we're going to see a crypto gaming just like Mega Run and you know one crypto gaming project is going 30 billion or 50 billion or 100 billion or whatever like what are the odds that like this ex Ubisoft team you know token that's sitting at 3 million market caps at least pumps to 30 million in a bull

run like that just seems so obvious to me like 300 million also feels low like I remember there were stupid projects sitting at like 900 there's ponies hitting like four billion last cycle so like that just seems uh really low value there's another one called um Soul Forge Fusion sfg it's on salana that one is kind of like Echelon Prime it's kind of like Gods Unchained so Gods on chain hit like 120 million market cap echon Prime hit like almost a billion in the bare market and those are just crypto card games so like trading card games they're meant to be like hey we the digital version of Magic the Gathering well the reason I like Soul Forge Fusion is because it's created by the guy that made magic the the Gathering so um the the the original creator of Magic the Gathering got together with like an one

of the guys that did like the the tournaments for Magic the Gathering they built a game together called soul soul Forge fusion um it actually was originally a physical card game uh the the ex founder of shapeshift like found it he like became addicted he loved it and he said hey this make a great crypto game he convinced the team to turn it into a crypto game and that token is sitting at like six million s million in market cap it's got a high fdv they got a so you have to look into all that I have looked into it they're they're not releasing a ton of tokens they're burning a ton of their supply so there's but but looking at all that stuff but anyway I'm like what are the odds that a seven million x uh x uh Magic the Gathering not X original magic gather uh

founder turns into you know the same market cap as gods and chainer maybe echon Prime so it's like things like that we actually I I think it being a lower market cap is um makes it less less risky and in my opinion because if you believe in a crypto gaming Bull Run what are the odds again Uno goes from three million to 30 million or you know whatever so um that's how I'm playing it and then I I'm like a mix of Blue Chips mid chips and smaller chips there's so many opportunities I couldn't name all the opportunities because it's not like AI there they haven't been bit up because it's not consensus yeah it's a great point the other one you mentioned gunzilla and their guns token will release sometime in q1 I believe yeah and I really I really will be watching that one closely as well same same yes

see because that's not just for gun that's not just for gun that's for their whole studio yeah yeah their whole studio yeah and off the Grid's just their their big game right now but I think and that another that studio we did an episode with Pierre's kicks from Del five Adventures where we talked and he's a big investor in them so go back and listen to episode if you guys want to learn about guns uh gunzilla and Off the Grid and what they're doing and the team behind that studio is like they're I think they ra like 500 million or something like that like they have raised so much money it's a massive team the guy doing their stories the guy that made um alter alter car but what was the other movie District nine oh District nine yes yeah he's a like Hollywood director and

he's like the head of their story stuff he's like a goated team and it's a really quality game so yeah people don't they don't even understand like what where state of crypto gaming is insane right now and they're like stuck in axi Infinity like mode from 2021 they're going to be shocked utterly shocked I think I love it I love the conviction Jesse thank you so much for joining us everybody let us know in the comments which of these predictions do you agree with which do you not agree with which ones do you think are going to come true what are you most excited for for 2025 we got a whole bunch over the next few weeks we got a whole bunch of episodes all about 2025 predictions it's not just Jesse coming on the show we got all of our favorite past guests a bunch of

experts coming on and you know what the best part is they all have different predictions guys because that's what we want you to hear it's not a whole bunch of the same person saying the same thing everybody's got their own View and you need to listen to them all in order to decide where you think you're going to make your decisions and where you have the most conviction in because as always you should do your own research and make your own decisions thanks again for joining us Jesse thanks for listening everybody have a wicked awesome day as always if you liked today's episode please hit subscribe and make sure you follow us so you don't miss out on the next one there's also a link in the description to our free 5 minute daily newsletter where we simplify crypto for you while making you laugh

and if you're willing to step up your crypto investing game we're going to also leave a link for milk Road Pro you get access to our portfolio where you can see exactly what we are buying this is your number one resource to help you invest successfully in crypto one final note this show is for educational purposes only and nothing we say is financial advice investing in crypto or any asset is risky and you should never invest more than you can afford to lose thanks so much for listening in my friends have a wicked awesome day