Introducing: The Optimism Collective & $OP Airdrop #1

Transcript

hey bankless nation welcome to another state of the nation david you know what i woke up this morning optimistic and i'm optimistic yes about this episode okay because we are talking with optimism today we originally titled this we booked this a while ago we had originally titled this optimism with a bunch of question marks because we had an inkling we had an idea that optimism was going to launch something on the 26th of april which is the date of which we're recording and indeed just an hour or two prior to us recording they have launched something david what is the thing or the things that optimism has launched and what are we going to talk about today oh my gosh it is a cannonball of an announcement

which has really i think filled the gaps in people's brains about what is the future of these l2s how are these layer twos going to decentralize over time because that is of course the whole entire point of this crypto revolution is to decentralize as much as we can decentralize all of the infrastructure and optimism's post introducing the optimism collective has given more or less the roadmap for decentralizing optimism and giving over responsibility ryan to the community and they have pioneered a two-house model a brand new system of governance one called the citizen house one called the token house and also a new model for retroactive public goods funding that's going to make the optimism layer 2 a pleasant

place to live and so we are going to talk about all of these things with the co-founders of the optimism layer 2 ben jing and carl the most infectiously optimistic team i think that exists in crypto uh coming up soon after this show right after this show there is a uh a ama hosted by the optimism team there is a link in the show notes to the tweet where you can get that information that it's happening at 1 pm pacific time uh what is that 4 pm eastern time link in the show notes so after we get all of the high level questions out of the way in this show right here there is a ama twitter spaces being hosted by the optimism team right after this guys there's just so much going on in crypto right now um one other thing

before we get in we have to mention that is going on is graph day okay this is a conference that is coming up june 2nd half uh actually uh three quarters hackathon really and one day of learning so june second to the fifth and this is happening in san francisco if you're not familiar with the graph the graph is a protocol that is essentially indexing all of web3 so uh you know when you're going to a defy user interface you're probably tapping into the graph at some level so if you are looking to network with some people if you're looking to build in the web3 ecosystem if you're looking to learn launch your career go head on over to this conference fantastic people um founder of connext arjun is going to be there um camilla uh

kami russo from the defiant is going to be there a whole bunch of other folks are going to be there as well jake um jake brookman yeah sorry he's the guy that killed us on nfts and of course we're also going to be kevin o'kee the public goods maxi and a bunch of other people that i find particularly inspirational right in that bottom left corner here is reese lindmark one of my personal heroes in this space you know i wish when jake pulled us on nfts we had to bought more dude that was like i was in 2020. anyway that's gone now we have new opportunities in crypto in d5 we're about to get into them but david gotta start with the question i ask you before every state of the nation which is this what is the state of the nation today oh brian what else could it be other than

being optimistic because there's nothing like i said there's nothing that makes me more optimistic about the future of ethereum than the combination of layer twos and public goods and that is really the thing that optimism the optimism team has always emphasized since genesis is how do we scale ethereum while also scaling our values and that is what i think is instantiated one of my favorite words in the optimism layer too the connection between layer two and the value of layer twos and funding public goods and also community empowerment and individual empowerment as we scale out our networks we also scale out our human values which could you know it was what a little bit of what we need in this world ryan right now is a bunch of scaling of values in an optimistic fashion

yeah absolutely and i i also wonder the the narrative that we talked about the beginning of this year is it's going to be l2 2022 the year of layer twos and that was what we talked about last year we talked about that we talked about lt summer but now we've got a year later i feel like the the the coming of tokens will usher in a different sort of l2 summer and it's pretty exciting to see and i i sort of wonder if this is how ethereum pushes back on some of the alternative layer 1 narratives that are out there we'll have to see what the team thinks about that as well and we are just about to get into it guys but before we do we want to thank the sponsors that made this episode possible the era of proof of stake is upon us and

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get liquidity on your stake go to lydo.fi to get started that's l-i-d-o-f-i to get started the layer 2 era is upon us ethereum's layer two ecosystem is growing every day and we need bridges to be fast and efficient in order to live a layer two life across is the fastest cheapest and most secure cross-chain bridge with across you don't have to worry about the long wait times or high fees to get your assets to the chain of your choice assets are bridged and available for use almost instantaneously across bridges are powered by uma's optimistic oracle to securely transfer tokens from layer 2 back to ethereum a token proposal is being deliberated as we speak in the across forum where community members will decide on the token distribution you can have your part of across the story by joining the

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account fees and is all you need to do to invest in crypto tax-free let me repeat that again you can invest in crypto tax-free diversify like the pros and trade without tax headaches open an alto crypto ira to invest in crypto tax free just go to alto ira dot com bankless that's a l t o i r a dot com bank list and start investing in crypto today welcome bankless nation to this very special edition this optimistic edition of state of the nation we are joined by three co-founders of the optimism project the optimism layer 2 sitting in the middle we have jing the executive director of the now optimism foundation we'll have to talk about what that is

sitting on the right we have the chief musician of the optimism foundation ben and on the far left of course the eternal optimist the guy that got me into crypto in the first place carl florsch the cto of op labs public benefits corporation again going to talk about what that is because that is also something new guys thank you so much for coming on this episode of bankless i'm i'm sure like you uh we are all here feeling optimistic but you guys just released a blog post uh and in the very beginning of that blog post you guys say ethereum sits at an unprecedented moment and we can't squander this opportunity jing what does this mean what unprecedented moment are we at and what could we

squander uh the unprecedented moment is this migration to l2s and ethereum enables these new human coordination systems to be designed it fundamentally changes game theoretic constraints of what people were able to build before so we have an opportunity here while creating an l2 creating value generating revenue to design a new way for all participants of the optimism optimism network to coordinate and so you also talk about not wanting to recreate web 2 incentives can you just elaborate on on what that means and why that's important yeah i mean i think everyone has seen

how the web 2 incentive structures have played out where you have revenue power influence continuously accruing to this single centralized source um and web3 is supposed to reimagine that yet we still can fall prey to the same pressures of centralization desires to maximize uh profit is that something you see in the crypto space today yeah 100 just because you can build new incentive systems doesn't mean everyone is building new incentive systems carl ben uh i want you guys to give you guys an opportunity to answer similar questions any thoughts about like this unprecedented moment on ethereum's history uh where are we on ethereum's history when it comes to

the network ooh when it comes to the network i mean we are the modular blockchain revolution the kind of you know state of the art of the technology is scaling up so fast and why is it scaling up so fast it's because there are so many people building on ethereum building the core infrastructure building these incentive systems like this is a movement like we have never seen before but that is also the case for the the entire space at this point and so we really don't know how things are going to shake up right we definitely could live in a world where we do end up recreating web 2 incentives and go for it can i hit you can i hear with my my favorite story on this please do it so have you guys ever read the

declaration of independence of cyberspace yes uh but i think you might need to refresh my and the listeners memory so this was a post written in the 90s by john perry barlow that basically was the uh i think you know it's very analogous to like the down the crypto rabbit hole aha moment that we all have where john barely barlow said this new cyber cyberspace that we're creating these networks of information passing are a new realm and he basically says that uh beware ye weary giants of flesh and steel you have no place here right and it's this it's a super well written super moving sort of call to action but ultimately what we have to keep in mind when we read this is that just because the internet had the ability to do this

doesn't mean that it was going to produce this and in fact if you reflect on where the internet has been taken right there's a huge amount of negativity about web 2 which is exactly the thing that perry barlow there is talking about being very important so it's important for us not to do that again we can make something new or we can repeat the mistakes of the past and i think to add on to the web 2 incentives element we are seeing the what seems to be just like like the nationalizing of the internet now we have like this facebook country that we're a part of we have this twitter country that we're a part of and all of a sudden the web the values of web one where power was really pushed to the margin margins has been concentrated back into web two uh and i think we're

also seeing that in our crypto networks as well uh and so i think this is what you guys are really getting into with re uh making sure that we can redefine the internet with web three based incentives any comments on that before we go on too many but i know carl has good ones i was just gonna say that humanity is important we need to capture and fight for our rights as people and individuals to make sure our networks reflect our values and we'll talk more yeah we're going to illustrate how we are going to get all of that done in the rest of this show but first guys is there a token that's a part of this story is a token relevant here are we talking about a token today yeah i mean cars run on gas but what you

want to do is get from point a to point b so we have a token but we're trying to get to point b and it's one small part of the story but i know that people are really excited about it of course of course yeah if you if you look at all the communications we've done this we've tried our damnedest because we know no matter what the djs will get out there but the token is missing the point of this thing this is about building a new system of governance and funding mechanisms for public goods it's not about when token you know short term land grab money grab you know pump of course yeah and in the words of uh the ens dow your airdropped responsibility and i think that rings true here as well uh and part of the way that that responsibility manifests is

through this new governance structure that you guys have introduced in your blog post called the optimism collective the op collective can you guys walk us through the op collective the optimism collective and and how that has been structured and what its whole purpose is that's got carl written all over it what's up all right so we have been doing governance research like we this is public good specifically public goods research for a long time and yes you brought it up so the optimism collective is a bicameral governance system we have two co-equal houses a the citizens house b the token house okay what is the major difference between these two houses well it actually comes down to the

transferability or sellability of the governance rights for each house right so the token house you of course have these tokens they're you know out there in the in the world they're liquid they're transferable then you have the citizens house where these citizenships are identities they are soul bound tokens as in you cannot transfer them you cannot sell them instead you can earn them receive them give them etc right there and the importance here is that we balance these two houses right if we just had tokens then governance rights would be viable on the open market for you know for for a cost but that when we're talking about a system which is supposed to protect

human values right human values are not reflected necessarily in our markets our markets are extremely unequal there's a very you know i can have one vote in terms of one dollar and you can have a bajillion votes in terms of a bajillion dollars and that would just that would reflect very negatively in how our internet plays out so we introduced this toke the citizens house and the citizens house is roughly right one person one you know voting power right you're not gonna have this thing where you can have you know a million x more voting power than someone else maybe there's some gradient but it's roughly you know equal and that is really critical to kind of check the

balance right because it's important token holders are important right they they they represent the interests of the network in so far as their their wallets right everyone wants to not lose money so there's there is a valuable incentive system there but it needs to be balanced by the soul-bound tokens by these identities by these citizens and so what we are creating is a really decentralized decentralized governed network for the people you know by the people right this is we're not ready to just say okay token governance that's it we're actually going to push this thing forward now i will say i'll keep going i will say

that it is going to take a long time for us to get to the end state in fact in our constitution which you can take a look at and our vision doc which you also can take a look at but in our constitution there we have four years to get to a point where this thing is kind of ready to take the training wheels off right now distributing identities and citizenships is an unsolved problem right proof of humanity like various other things soul bound tokens transferability if you read vitalik's blog post on soulbound he outlines a lot of the problems that exist in the identity you know space but if we were to fully get to you know try to get to the end state today we would be left with just the token house

so what we're doing is we've created this whole system where we have the foundation and the optimism foundation will actually steward the governance protocol to its final form as a balanced decentralized bottom-up governance system for the people by the people okay so i i just want to unpack this uh for a minute so um you know that that's really cool and there's there's so many interesting ideas with with this particular um this particular project what you guys are doing here so there's this thing called the optimism collective and previously david and i have talked about on bank list about later to use being almost like um many countries city-states states within a federal government right so think like california or like virginia or something

like a state within the federal government and so you at the beginning of your your post and the tweet thread have this picture of of optimism as this like community as this this sprawling wonderful city space where people make their homes and live and that's indeed what we're doing you guys were talking about the the great migration from l1 to l2 is we're making our new homes on these layer twos and so the optimism collective is this i guess state right this place where people live and now what you're doing is you start to introduce words like constitution and governance now we have to collectively decide how this state is actually governed like how do we how do

the people who live in the state actually make decisions and what you're proposing i want to make sure bankless listeners get this because this is super unique is uh two bodies right so in the u.s you have like the senate and the house right those are two different bodies in this system we have two bodies one that votes with capital that's where the token comes in that is the the token house as you've called it and the other is a almost like a one-person one-vote sort of thing the people's house if you will the citizens house so we have tokens as a primitive which we've had for a while and now you're introducing people individuals as a primitive and together

these two bodies are going to essentially make governance decisions for this state for this beautiful city that we're trying to create on layer two is that right carl yes that is absolutely right and i just want to say that it is on layer two that we're trying to create this but it is also on the internet more broadly that we are trying to create this because right now we sit at an inflection point right we have elon musk buying twitter we have like uh you know dolly too you know painting amazing artwork right without a human involved right there is this is a moment where the internet is most sorely in need of human

representation identity and fixing these problems that we that we have so like we need to solve this for crypto because crypto is kind of the uh like the the the governance uh test bed and the fertile soil for all of these experiments but it is going to be something that affects the entire web right this is this is the revolution this is super cool and so this is something you want to export i want to just camp on the elon musk thing for a minute because that is the news today right so elon musk is buying twitter uh apparently that that is the thing that's going to happen and people should realize that twitter governance is essentially it's just the token house it's just cap it's just capital vote and so who essentially gets to dictate what the rules on twitter is the majority of

twitter token holders shareholders of which elon musk is apparently going to be the majority owner and he's going to be the guy right our governance for twitter rests on elon musk what you're proposing is something different so you'd still have some of that token vote uh responsibility but also this is as if in the future right not right now but also individual twitter users everyone every individual human who had an account also got to vote on the governance process and i think what you're saying is there's a lot of steps to get there but that is what you're talking about making this thing bicameral it's not just token vote it's not just shareholder vote where someone like elon musk can go like buy the freaking like nation the state of optimism

we actually also have the individual users of optimism who have a vote in the system and you think you think optimism and crypto can export this to the world like export this governance style to web 2. am i hearing that correctly if it works we'll we're about to see if it works i guess i think a lot of the issues that people take issue with in web 2 or just the world more broadly um are issues with plutocracy you have like direct plutocracy like twitter shareholder voting and then you have indirect plutocracy where twitter is governed by its shareholders and then you know some countries democracy maybe is secretly influenced by the stockholders of various companies

lobbying for whatever so we have a place for plutocracy um the economy of this digital city is still important but our hypothesis is if we make explicit a place for plutocracy and a place for democracy can can we draw a cleaner line between the two where you don't end up having this sneaky plutocracy uh maybe it'll work maybe it won't we'll see we're going to try though that's what ethereum is for we got this i think you guys can tell uh carl's infectious optimism is why me and so many others have been brought into the uh the fold of ethereum back in 2017.

and guys there's just one more dynamic i want to drive home about this whole system uh just to really really illustrate this for for the listeners on on one side on the token side we have this fungible token that is freely tradable and has a market price on the other side of the spectrum we have a non-functional token that is soulbound as in fixed to the address these are couldn't be more opposite sides of the spectrum one side token probably going to be on all the dexes it's going to be freely tradable it's going to have a market price on the other side of things we have erc 721 tokens maybe it's 721 that is frozen inside of the specific ethereum address of specifically known people and this like clear barbell just like pushing out

things to the to the periphery of the possibilities of token designs i think is really interesting and something in your guys's blog post that has stuck with me is balancing the short-term and long-term incentives of this system can you guys talk about how these two token models uh optimizing for two completely different things balance the short terms and long term incentives of the of the system sure uh yeah this is this is um kind of what we were trying to examine when looking at how plutocratic systems have shaped out you have facebook for example making all of these decisions that are great for uh profit in the short term but have damaged its reputation its user base

it's just like general ability to succeed sustainably and um if we if we assume that the token holders of optimism can be modeled similarly to facebook shareholders then we want a separate house of people who are more aligned with the long-term interests of the protocol and so instead of investing capital in the protocol we want to give these non-fungible tokens to people who have invested time energy reputation things beyond capital yeah and and there are there are there are like fundamental differences between these different kinds of you know assets that we're talking about and all of the

you know systems that we're discussing but like this you know we can look in the real world to see where uh uh where identity is sorely needed and so that is you know we had to add in the citizens house of course and you guys are experimenting with this brand new system of governments which makes sense to me uh it seems to pull from history from to model out governance structures but also use the the advantages of a liquid democracy structure that one would find with crypto networks and with smart contracts and with tokens that are permissionlessly and uncensorably available across the internet and if this goes well this governance structure can be exported to the rest of ethereum all of the layer twos and hopefully the

rest of crypto because the rest of crypto kind of needs it uh and this is hopefully the the value add that this governance model can export to the rest of the ecosystem and that is something that has always drawn me to optimism is its commitment to exporting its innovations towards the rest of the ecosystem and that is also relevant when we discuss public goods and retroactive public goods funding later in the show first though i want to talk about this very funnily titled section of the announcement titled uh check out my only f excuse me excuse me i messed that up check out my of as in my the optimism foundation uh what is the optimism foundation and what should we be checking out honestly we did make an only fans

account about a year ago we were gonna expose our test net endpoints on the only fans count but um is that a true story it is a true story i still yeah um maybe we'll put node set up information anyways um the optimism foundation is a steward of the community it's organizing governance experiments building up the collective bootstrapping the ecosystem so if you think of what was previously optimism pbc which is now op labs as like the technical right hand executing on creating the best [ __ ] protocol

ever and then the foundation is building out the ecosystem it's the go to market it's um funding teams external to the pbc to build out other pillars of infrastructure that's cool and so this uh the optimism foundation is carl you were talking about earlier that's kind of the bridge type organization to get us to this fully decentralized system okay so i have some questions about this uh so i think people like want to know what it's going to take to be a citizen so that sounds awesome i want to become a citizen in the citizen house of optimism i want my soul-bound nft and by the way again just for people if that's

a new term we talked about it twice i feel like david kind of defined it but that's an nft that gets distributed to say an optimism address a public key of some sort and it can't be moved so it can't be transferred can't be sold to the highest bidder it is stuck there in place so it's it's sort of matching one eighth address one individual how do you distribute something like this how does someone become a citizen in the citizen house that is a great question so this is the subject of a large portion of our governance experiments so i'm going to be relatively high level but it's going to be iterative iterated on and kind of fleshed out over time

however the rough intuition for how to become a citizen is to get involved with the optimism community right if you move to a city you are a citizen of that city right you live in there you're you know you're in a neighborhood and you're going about your daily life similarly if you come to optimism oftentimes you're going to be a part of a various you know different optimism communities right there are these you know different pockets of optimism users with different interests and different friend groups so you move into a neighborhood within optimism and we call these different neighborhoods quote like opcos so they're like optimism communities or you know companies or you know whatever and so we're going to be at least for our next experiment

allowing these different communities to distribute citizens to all of the people who are within their community and those citizens will now have these soul-bound nfts and maybe we can even make it so that citizens give to other citizens so at a high level if you know something called a web of trust what we're going to be doing is we're seeding the web of trust on chain with the most active you know optimism communities opcos and then we they will distribute their citizens and we can in the long term have some kind of dispute mechanism to make sure that one citizen is one identity as opposed to one identity having five citizens citizenships so there are some difficult like problems to solve yeah right which is like the

big problem facing all of crypto is how do we actually recognize uh individuals how do we solve the decentralized identity problem that's not something that we're going to be able to solve overnight is it because so what it what are the first steps of this is it mostly manual web of trust style and then hopefully over time as we develop better protocols for decentralized identity optimism would begin implementing that across its its city yes absolutely so it is going to start out with a kind of seed trust because in reality right if you you need to pick you need to start somewhere when it comes to identity systems and these webs of trust so you start out with that little seed and then you grow it over time and so we're just going to be

naturally growing this community yeah it may start out as you know a few hundred maybe a few thousand but you know we can i could absolutely imagine this thing getting to 100 000 citizens a million citizens 300 you know 300 million citizens whatever right like this is we're talking internet scale identity systems that we're going to all be you know existing in and of course very importantly not only is the identity system important but privacy preserving it needs to be privacy preserving in the uh article that i put out on bank list yesterday i talked about how ethereum seems to be developing in all directions at once and so as you guys are pioneering the world of layer twos and layer two governance other people are pioneering in the ways of

decentralized identity and as soon as they figure that out you guys can plug that right into the identity system but they got to figure that out first and of course that is an area of active development of ethereum jane do you want to say something before i ask my next question yeah i was just gonna say that we're a generalized scaling solution and there's many kinds of projects that have different kinds of users so when thinking about how to distribute citizenship or what kinds of behaviors to value or even how to distribute tokens we decided that it was really best left up to the projects themselves if we prioritize something like tvl then projects like ave may have far greater preference over projects like um

perpetual um if we prioritize transactions and the other way around and so each project itself knows what they themselves need to do to garner usage on their own applications and same with the citizenships each project knows which of their community members would best represent the community's interests in the greater optimism governance and the way that i've modeled this out of my head i understand this in my head is uniswap had this fantastic opportunity of pioneering the retroactive airdrop but as a community as an ecosystem we only have one bullet in the chamber for the good untainted retroactive airdrop so continuing to do retroactive air drops you know people have been doing

activity on all the layer twos for a while now farming the retroactive airdrop and so we know that instead of doing retroactive airdrops we need to have proactive community-oriented community-led decisions where the legitimacy and the neutrality of these token distributions is up to the community and so this will be a little teaser for what's going on in the second half of the show but there's just not one airdrop there are multiple airdrops so if the people who are checking their account balances right now are not satisfied with the number that they see there are things that you better be satisfied there are things that you can do free money it's a fantastic point uh but there are going to be things that people can do to

work for the protocol if the community deems it legitimate guys i want to keep on going on this topic of unpacking the the optimism foundation right and so i think a lot of long-term listeners will remember the maker foundation which was this uh semi-centralized entity centralized for a while that eventually dissolved into what is currently the maker dow and this is probably the right framing but there is an extra step here where we have the optimism public benefits corporation the newly spawned optimism foundation and also the newly spawned optimism citizens house of the optimism collective can you guys talk about how these things relate to each other and how uh responsibility is being oriented from one organization to the

next and how this goes how this goes into the future yeah i mean we're oh sorry oh okay um i mean we're still figuring everything out we have some incredible board members who've done this before among the board members is eva baylin who's the executive director of the graph foundation abby titcombe who's on the board of the radical foundation and bryan avello who's a general counsel to the maker dao foundation so he's seen those governance experiments through the highs and lows and all the way eventually till dissolution i think for now we're just focused on doing the best we can to grow the

ecosystem and grow it sustainably um i think it would be really awesome one day if we had a structure similar to maker dao where they really are operating in decentralization nirvana but it took them a decade to get there and i imagine it'll take us a similar amount of time okay so what is happening to the current uh optimism public benefits corporation the corporation that up until recently uh jing and ben were a part of but no longer what's the long-term fate of that same i think that we're all i mean what is a company it's just like a temporary vessel to organize people payroll equity compensation

um to organize towards a singular mission right now we're envisioning the split of responsibilities as the op labs pbc is focused on the engineering roadmap the direction of the protocol so carl's still the cto there and liam horn [ __ ] chad is now the new ceo of op labs he was formerly the ceo of l4 um which was the sort of like premier state channels development uh company in ethereum if you guys remember um his prior work he's also a co-founder of eth global which completely changed the game of how new founders enter crypto ben and i at the foundation we're going

to be focused on more high-level direction setting governance um grant making things like that imagine like an aggressive um ef an aggressive ef is music to my ears jing uh okay so just uh uh here's here's how i understand this the optimism uh pbc renamed to uh the optimism labs uh is the protocol side of optimism development uh the citizens and the token holders they're great but the protocol specialists are the protocol specialists and you can't replace those so those are going to optimism labs you guys jing and ben are going to optimism

foundation along with some other key members in the community that were not previously a part of the optimism team members like ava and abby and brian and so you guys are joining other people and kind of also diluting the previous membership of optimism pbc when the with the creation of optimism foundation with other members other leaders of the community who have done this sort of thing before and then we also have the optimism token house the on-chain version of this whole thing as in eventually the optimism foundation will slowly morph as we solve identity into the optimism collective the the citizen house of the optimism collective and

that is that the whole road map for this whole thing that's the decentralized decentralization path of optimism pretty good summary pretty good summary two two small things i would add one op labs not optimism labs another another one that i would add is um one thing that you mentioned is that the protocol experts are the protocol experts so that is something i very much agree with and i would push back on so it's definitely the case that the group of you know almost 40 incredible protocol experts and you know executives that we've put together um at the pbc are definitely an incredible intact cohesive group and it's amazing to see them like run as a unit it is also the case though that we need to decentralize the development of protocols as we go

forward too and especially for an approach like us which is all centered around evm equivalence which says that anybody who's participating in the ethereum stack at large should be able to participate in the optimism stack it is important to have protocol development that moves beyond just one single organization so part of you know a key responsibility of the citizens is going to be distributing public goods funding retroactively to the people that are building these important ethereum protocols and that need not just be you know op labs that's like a big community right there's so many so many important people in that ecosystem that should be rewarded awesome i think that this makes a ton of sense as a path towards decentralization of optimism of

course all right guys and bankless listeners that was all the vegetables i'd say but coming up in a second we got gotta get to the candy we gotta get to the dessert uh so we gotta talk about the token who got the token how was the token distributed what is the token even called uh and also the future for the future air drops of the optimism token because this was airdrop number one going out today but airdrops two three four plus are also on the menu and that menu is the candy the dessert which is coming next right after we get to some of these fantastic sponsors that make the show possible ave is the leading decentralized liquidity protocol and now ave v3 is here ave v3 has powerful new features to enable you to

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you guys also announced of course we're talking about both houses one of these houses is the citizens house the other is the token house so with the token house of course there must be a token associated with it and so i believe there has been the announcement of the release of the token can you talk about the token itself um also an air drop okay air drop number one what are some of the high level details that uh that people should know about here carl all righty so um air drop number one we took we took uh we thought really hard how are we going to make this airdrop super fair like actually fair like give it to the people you know that

kind of fare give it to as many people as possible we wanted to make it a wide distribution so the way that we did this is we came up with oh thank you now i don't have to read it for my phone no just anyway um the way that we did this we was we said okay let's take five categories i believe six categories five six um categories where each category representing a different like ethereum behavior that we wanted to see and that would identify people that you know definitely either they're in the optimism community or we know that they should be in the optimism community so how did this work out well of course we were going to give to optimism users

that's users that you know used optimism like one time they may have gone in check something out and left but then we also decided okay let's actually give more to repeat optimism users now notably if you are an optimism user you're also a repeat optimism user so you get both of those airdrops that's the sum of those two or oh whoops yes the other way around lol um great so those are the optimism side of things but then we said okay let's get the ethereum users as well so we said okay dow voters that's you know people who use different dows multi-sig signers we know them they are you know the power users of ethereum and get coin donors that's the kind of you know

public goods ecosystem focused people that we know build a strong community that is long-term sustainable as well as people wait uh get coin donators who donated to optimism or get coin donators across the board get coin donators across the board on l1 now notably that does not include uh folks on zk sync which you know uh we'll we'll we'll see um anyway the um the priced out of eth is another one where we said okay if people are on ethereum and they use bridges that means that they're kind of like exploring the layer 2 ecosystem they're exploring various alternatives maybe they need lower fees and those are the kinds of people that can come to optimism because we got low

fees for you so the fun thing this gets a little bit more fun so if you get two of these categories then you get you know uh category a the payout there plus the category b the payout there but if you get four five or even six of these categories then you start getting bonuses major bonuses and they are pretty significant now just if you are like oh man i'm an optimism user i really want to you know get i should get tons of bonuses well you do because you're automatically qualified right you're a repeat optimism user you got two of those bonuses already it makes it a lot easier for you to get the rest of the force so anyway um yeah give to the optimism users give to the ethereum community give to everybody everyone's

happy well the initial airdrop is also what seeds who can vote uh in governance so we thought what kind of person do we want to have um making decisions on behalf of the protocol and so is people who care about scalability but still care about ethereum so those have who have been priced out um people who give a [ __ ] about our values so people who donate to public goods like bitcoin people who are entrusted with community treasuries like multi-sig signers or people who voted in other governance um projects before and then finally people who give a [ __ ] about us people who've used us um the ogs as well as the newer people who've

entered the system so i do one of my favorite categories here jing is that actually that last one priced out of eth because it's kind of an answer to the like um a lot of the the debate maybe the fud maybe the angst the anger coming from users who like felt priced out that the eth is only a whale chain sort of people and to the extent that's true and here's optimism also rewarding that group if you bridge to polygon gnosis chain arbitram you're priced out of eth here's some governance here's some responsibility for you welcome to the city yeah i've got to give a shout out to framework one of our investors for helping us with that one we were

thinking about maybe people who've used a lot of like big gas guzzlers um but you're right that that prioritizes whales as i want to also talk about the holistic distribution so that was the tokens for the particular users who have gauged and engaged in particular activities but there's also just the greater distribution of the token at large and so i'm going to ask ryan to pull up this graphic that i just sent him in in zoom which talks about the token allocation across retroactive public goods funders the ecosystem fund the airdrops the uh sugar zadie's aka investors and also the core contributors and so can we talk about the total supply of

tokens that were given out to users uh right now as in airdrop number one the the one that everyone is clamoring about the one that everyone is checking their addresses to see how much they got how much of the total token supply was given out in airdrop number one five percent and is that going to be the way it is for future air drops or how is that determined um i think a lot of it is uh so we have a pretty big chunk allocated to projects for them to distribute to their users we have a whole thing we're gonna announce with a fancy [ __ ] um and then for user airdrops i think we just wanna see what happens after the first airdrop see if these are the kinds of people

that are making good decisions in governance are they creating more activity do they care should we um adjust the parameters anyhow uh we'll see but that entire chunk of the pie chart is for the users okay it looks like a 19 total percent of the token supply of optimism is going to be airdropped to users five including the five percent so there's fourteen percent left five percent got air drop today not yet claimable uh 14 is left for future airdrops some going to uh the apps on optimism perhaps apps like synthetics and lyra that have been there for a long time perhaps future apps perhaps future users i think it might be up to governance is that right uh who who

determines the allocation of future future air drops a lot of it will be up to governance um the foundation will do analytics write up proposals but it's up to the governance to decide um we i mean the token is a governance token this is ownership in the protocol it's not an instrument for speculation it's literal ownership and so we want to be careful about or at least intentional about how these future air drops are distributed um so we don't know today what that will look like yeah i think and the name of the game here is like iteration right there is no way in which you can do the perfect

thing once and it all go right especially for something as ambitious and bold as is deemed necessary by the this mass migration l2 that's going on like we have huge lofty goals and to fulfill them we need to be able to iterate and improve on things and so yeah maybe it's a little untantalizing because people want to know when airdrop 2 when our drop 3 when our drop four but that's not how we do things here we iterate i think the question to like who will be included in airdrop two three four my teammates might get mad at me for saying this but we're trying to create again this like body of citizens that give many [ __ ] about the protocol so

um if you think about equity as at a company who do you give equity to you give equity to new entrants into the system so that's airdrop number one you give performance uh bonus increases to people who've been performing really well people who are aligned with the values of the collective that are doing things that contribute to the goodness of the whole so um don't spin up your bots we're weeding actively bought behavior out focus on finding your niche your pocket of projects or communities with an optimism that you want to contribute to and make some legitimate organic contributions yeah and the part of this is about uh get having many different governance

mechanisms which are all distributing tokens and making sure that every kind of corner is caught right as you said before the original kind of og uh uniswab airdrop took the the crypto by storm crypto by storm and really changed the game for how air you know how people interact with airdrops and made people started farming and it's kind of crazy you go on discord and there's like 50 million people in your your discord office space or something and really it's five people with a bajillion bots right it's it is gnarly out there but you know what you know what that says that says that there is latent productive energy that people want to get involved and be in the community and

contribute they want to give by creating tons of bots but soon they will be able to give not by creating tons of bots but by creating tons of public goods right this entire mechanism is based around a new form of internet ownership governance etc that is wide scale that is wide everyone can participate everyone can get involved and incentivizes productive pro-social happy for everybody behavior love it guys uh okay so that was the 19 of the air drop supply of the total pie chart but we got a lot of that pie chart left to cover we got what is that math 71 i'm bad at math 81 uh 19 in addition to uh the 19 going to

the users there's 19 more percent going to the core contributors who are they that's us that's optimism equity holders love it okay people people on the optimism team people that founded optimism employees of optimism uh okay uh also retroactive public goods funding a whopping 20 the second largest supply of the token supply going to retroactive public goods funding what's that uh okay so retract republicans funding is a whole nother podcast that i i don't know if we've done yet but we should do right but there's so much to go over here um it's something that we've worked on with um vitalik and with others and have put a lot of iteration into figuring out what this thing is in a

nutshell i think very core to our story over the past you know several years now has been trying to figure out uh basically how to avoid these incentives of web 2 all over again right so one of the things that is pretty unique to optimism that we've fought really hard for it every step of the way is that everything that we do be open sourced right we do not sit here and write a bunch of code behind closed doors and license it up everything we do is mit license it's evm equivalent it's free to use and free to contribute to the reality is that we're in a fortunate position to have been able to do that but it not does not come without its challenges and so a core mission for us is to make creating

public goods profitable right and the model that we have for this is called retroactive public goods funding so you can read you know a lot about this maybe i'll give a summary does that make sense um sure yeah well actually no we're going to save we're going to save that retroactive public goods funding for the very end because i'm also super hyped about it uh and we're also going to quickly talk about evm equivalents uh so that was retroactive public goods funding again 19 for the user airdrop 19 for the core contributor the optimism founders and equity holders and employees 20 for retroactive public goods funding to pioneer the star trek future that's coming that's what that's what that means to me uh and then okay uh ecosystem fund 25 that is the biggest chunk of this whole entire pie chart

ecosystem fund what is that you want to talk about you want me to hit it so ecosystem fund is partially about growth right so there's a few different things that are going on here and truthfully there was so much information to get out that we have a whole blog post on a lot of this planned for next week that will talk more about this but i think the important thing to understand is that of course you do want to incentivize the growth on a network and there's different components here that will help us do that some of that is for the optimism foundation and for us to do as basically business development a big chunk of it is for the governance systems to be doing and some of it is also to start seeding new

things on optimism so not just growing things that already exist but bringing new things onto the platform because the reality is when you open up a system like l2 that really really really scales you're going to have new things that you just couldn't do on l1 and so it doesn't make sense to just liquidity mind a bunch of forks that go on to optimism because fundamentally l2 unlocks new things to be done and so we have to incentivize that a little differently so yeah there's a lot to be said here we're going to have a whole post on this next week that talks a little bit about it more but it's all very exciting stuff and i think this is a good time to remind the listeners the viewers who are watching the live stream that there is an ama happening right after this to

pick the brains of the the panelists that you guys see here all right guys uh very very last section sugar zaddy's uh the investors 17 pretty sure that's just like chris dixon at a16z maybe vance spencer from framework and a few other vcs anything else that we talked about there paradigms child laborers paradigm as well okay all right that is the complete 100 distribution of the op token as it stands today thank you guys for letting us uh for walking uh us through that and of course now i do want to get to retroactive public goods funding and evm equivalence the thing that really is the cherry on the cake that excites me the most uh the way that i've explained retroactive public goods funding the model i have it for my head in my head is if we have some sort of

capital if we got money on our hands we can wad up that money into a ball and chuck it into the future and you make people go and build for it and of course in the same way that we are using governance to iteratively determine the future air drops we can also use governance to iteratively determine who gets that money of cash and the idea of chucking it into the future is a model for illustrating how you are giving assurances to people who are interested in public goods interested in building public goods but haven't been given the assurances that they will actually get money from doing this and this is the novel mechanism that what you guys said i pioneered with vitalik uh and the optimism team and

what is really is unique to the uh optimism ethos that i really get excited about um uh how do you guys like that metaphor of chucking money into the future to give assurances that people can actually build something how does that land with you guys and what would you add to that it is a it is a great analogy it's a hilarious one that we haven't it's it's interesting the retroactive does not make me think of throwing into the future but i get it and so it makes sense in the future it will be retroactive right exactly right and it's true and and that that basically speaks to something that we talk about a lot with rpgf which is that you need assurances as to what is going to be funded in the future right you're not going to do it super blindly you don't

want to do it without some sort of guidance i think the addition that i would make here is that if you throw a bunch of money into the future uh it won't just be people that are going to build public goods that will follow it there are also investors that want to follow it and so if you look at what current public funding models are they're basically grants right which is basically chucking money at someone now and telling them to work into the future to do it right but the problem is that grants are not a great way of allocating resources there's lots of problems with them it's hard for a centralized grant giving the entity to figure it out and prediction is just in general an incredibly incredibly challenging problem so part of the long-term vision for how retroactive

public goods funding goes is that you allow there to be a market right so you basically say okay it's too hard for us to figure out how public goods should you know get grants up front we can figure it out after that's a much easier problem but also the people probably want to be paid now right some of these people you know need a salary and so the idea is that you defer that part of the problem to a much more efficient mechanism the marketplace and so we imagine a world in which you can literally invest in a public goods project that you will you believe will have an impact that will get them money now to create that public good and you will all get money retroactively in the future maybe if if your bet pays off if you are

deemed to have provided utility to the ecosystem by the way yes oh carl call can you say the word the equation oh of course of course so i mean uh impact equals profit right we want to make positive impact to the collective result in profit to the individual right that means that if i do something good that it comes back to me and it's really it's as simple as like a a kind of fundamental principle of reciprocity being something that is good for everyone you don't want to live in a world where everyone's cutthroat you know backstabbing each other guess what we're not going to get anywhere in that world we want to live in a world where we are working together and we know that we will be recognized for our positive

impact why is that good because when i make a positive impact in to the world everyone benefits it raises all boats right we are in this together fundamentally we are social creatures and so we have to raise our ourselves up and we can do this in a bottom-up like decentralized way it doesn't have to be this top-down like ah you get you know this no this is an allocation that comes from us to back to ourselves it's an investment in ourselves as a decentralized ecosystem so we started off this whole show talking about uh losing just dropping the incentives of web 2 and recreating human incentives in web 3. is this really the key unlocked to getting that done retroactive public goods funding

um first i wanted to mention that this is not a novel mechanism that we pioneered it's been talked about by many people for a long time we're just experimenting with it um it it's one of many mechanisms that we're thinking through and i think the path for experimentation on retroactive public goods funding richard pgf is the most clear the hypothesis is people invest in venture capital because of the possibility of an exit and so if we provide the exit for a not-for-profit project then the whole ecosystem that's been built around startups generally would

also exist for non-profit startups i think that this is important to the web 3 ethos everything that we use has been built by open source teams we used to be a non-profit it was really difficult to operate because you might get a big grant check this year you don't know if you're going to get it next year sometimes with researching on like net new technologies you don't know when the research is going to be done you don't know when the deadline is and it's also really difficult to recruit talent even people who don't give [ __ ] about getting rich do give [ __ ] about fairness and they want at least some share in the upside that they are creating for this massive ecosystem

so if we want those the brilliant people like the people in the guest team the people who built hard hat um ethers jis to also do the same for the optimism ecosystem then we would want them to be rewarded appropriately and the uh the idea here is the sheer innovation power of silicon valley what if we could redirect that into building out public goods and i'm pretty sure i just hear heard kevin awake somewhere say the words public goods are good i'm pretty sure that's what he just said that's true and the the idea here is we can take the upside opportunity that everyone is uh

is so often chasing in this world of crypto and redirecting that into again what kevin walkey calls regen finance so instead of being degens we can naturally turn them into regenerative finance allowing our degeneracy to fund public goods for a more sustainable future but there's one element left to talk about and there's a graphic uh that is uh i i really really love that you guys put in your tweet thread talking about the cycle of positive feedback loop of retroactive public goods funding but also what is something we have not yet talked about which is the uh the um demand for optimism block space uh and so it's something i i wrote forever ago was an article titled how transaction

ordering can save humanity it was just when i was just beginning to wrap my head around what the hell you guys are up to and the idea is that we can use demand for blocks block space as we all know here's okay here's the meme about uh that i that i actually came up with this morning uh because as i was preparing for this show ether is a great currency i think it's hope potentially the next currency for the world currency and money is a great public good and when demand for ethereum block space gets uh turned into burning ether and making it more scarce uh making it a better money the whole world benefits optimism when demand for optimism block space occurs that turns into funding for retroactive public goods funding so we can have more wads

of cash throwing more cash into the future to incentivize uh public goods funding and that makes optimism the layer two a more fun place to be nation states that have good roads good bridges good airports good plumbing uh good telecommunications they are just pleasant countries to live in they have good public goods they have good resources and that makes it easier to innovate and develop on in these countries in the same way with layer twos as we talked about earlier the layer twos are states and if we can fund our infrastructure to be better and more pleasant that makes that place a more pleasant place to live increasing the block space for optimism layer two and when there's uh more fees generated by

the optimism layer two that can go into more funding for public goods on optimism generated by what you guys called uh miva mev auctions mev is a kind of a very dense subject we don't have time to go into uh the mev today in this show but there's plenty of previous bankless shows that we've done about that to understand uh mev uh guys how did i did i summarize it all right is that kind of the virtuous cycle here very very very well summarized both by yourself and this diagram applause i think the only thing the only thing we'd add just because um you know the mev word can be a little acronym can be a little scary for folks sometimes this is not equivalent to you're going to get sandwiched to fund public goods it's not the same thing as that and in fact one

import one very important part of decentralizing the basically rights to control block space is that you want a and this is related to the long-term incentive alignment is you want that block space to be good so there are you know ways that you can structure an l2 that can basically get afford different parties like the sequencer an ability to be extremely extractive but don't believe the fud if you hear that's going to happen on optimism because long-term alignment means that you want something that isn't so extractive that it drives users away because in the long term you don't just want a maximally extractive l2 you want a sustainable l2 so anyway that's just a little bit more on the sustainability part of that to

dispel any like you know latent latent mev fud that you might hear and it's all great stuff did you have to and uh just to tie this section off uh something that i've i've been teasing a lot in uh my writing on bankless on monday and some a lot of my twitter activities my mind has been invaded by this concept called evm equivalence and the idea here is that optimism has been working towards making not an evm compatible layer 2 which is what people are used to but an evm equivalent layer 2. the nuance behind that is that it's just it's the values and the actual ethereum layer 1 starts to bleed into the layer two itself the difference between the layer one and the layer two starts to blur uh there's going to be a

post i'm writing on wednesday about this on the bankless newsletter to go into more detail it's a very complex topic it's been very challenging for me to understand but the difference is is that the point is is that the optimism layer two because it's evm equivalent whenever it produces something good whenever some public goods funding thing works because of the equivalence it is so easily transferable to the rest of the theory of ethereum it can go back to the layer one it can go up to other layer twos and so these public goods the optimism are generating via retroactive public goods funding and the things that these new silicon valley of the web 3 world build on optimism they get immediately and freely transferable to the rest of the

ecosystem and that guys that is something i think is just so beautiful and again how i how i think that we go from where we are now where we're going to be dominated by climate change and war to a star trek future uh any further comments i guess i'm taking the show from you guys any further comments you are save some for me man what the heck uh no i mean you hit the nail on the head i think you know the only thing that i could add to on onto it is sort of how it relates to you know our journey at optimism and i think basically when we look back it was not obvious at the time but it's basically been a progressive journey towards the evm equivalence so we started out building plasma which was a layer two of ethereum so it was an

extension but it was a completely different code base it couldn't run a smart contract so it didn't even make sense for it to be evm equivalent right then we moved to a roll-up we said okay we can finally run contracts and we sort of partially used the ethereum code base but we were not evm equivalent time and time again what we learned is that the public good of the ethereum scaling the ethereum technology stack itself things like the ethereum virtual machine and smart contracts and the wallet tooling and how developers you know write code all of these things are being built up on top of ethereum and so staying evm equivalent for us has been a revelation in basically contributing back to the public good that we're already building on top of in the first place so yeah you

said it all um maybe there's one last thing we can add shout out to eip4844 so one big way that we're contributing back right now is a new eip that will cut call data costs way down and what that means is we'll cut roll-up costs way way way down so shout out to eip4844 this is going to be a huge deal and we are making it happen so this is one of the biggest projects that we've ever done that is actually writing in an evm equivalent code base it's writing on geth but it is not um writing the optimism l2 it is writing the l1 software this is going to be a huge public good it will help all rollups and we're excited about it anything you want to add call oh first thing um

we have continuously been lowering fees over the past year and it's still not enough for people so why you should care about eap 484 is that it reduces fees by two orders of magnitude so instead of fees on the order of magnitude of a dollar it'll be cents so this also doesn't just benefit us even though we're the ones that are developing it this benefits all roll ups optimistic and zk alike yeah and so just to tie back to the thing that we talked about originally which is like the whole houses and like the whole governance system what is this future internet thing that we want to live in

one key thing in the future is we need to preserve the right to exit that means the right to fork the right to take the code and repurpose it right we are not building the optimism collective so that you know the optimism collective can be the number one thing even though you know it would be lovely if that happens of course but we are building it so that humanity can take the code take the things and use it to move forward in general right like everything that we do is it's about upgrading civilization right that that's like at the end of the day so writing open source software making it forkable making it

privacy preserving all these things are protecting individual rights for the collective good and so that's you know that's why it's so important to be building evm equivalent and working together to press push forward the state of technology well said upgrading humanity upgrading civilization guys i just have a just a couple of just tie off questions as you're talking about so this eip4844 okay this is the new five nine one five five nine that we're excited about talking about for like years before it actually happened then it happened last august how many years are we gonna be talking about four eight four four do you guys have a tease on that is it gonna be years or can this be measured in months i'm not looking for like a hard fork date here but i'm just trying to get a

sense of when this eip is coming in general because we haven't talked about it on bankless yet um we have to just respect the ethereum governance process here there's so many things that many many people have been working on for a long time that need to happen we are just trying to make or contribute what we can to the process which is building out a prototype proving that it works getting it audited so that whenever governance is ready to include 4844 there's no other obstacles okay amazing well we are hopeful for that we want to do a show all about that you guys should come back for it carl you wanted to add something sorry oh i was just going to say that vitalik designed eip4844 to be very very very minimal so it's it's it's

easy you know awesome good job easy easy easy um the other question that just sprung to mind for me and in the first part of the show it was super refreshing to hear you guys talk about um the the token house the capitol house is like the the plutocracy because i don't think that like i don't think that any like many other uh token ecosystems actually think of it it's the quietest part that you don't say out loud it is and we've been saying out loud for a while too much out loud i just i think it's the right amount because you have to counteract the rest of the industry when people talk start talking about decentralized governance and it's token vote i'm like what the hell is what do you mean decentralized

governance right this is like you know capital equals vote it's not quite decentralized so um i think that's super refreshing but one thing i was curious about is like if you're talking about a given governance proposal or something and you've got the token house voting and then the citizen house voting who has more weight or is it sort of 50 50 like plutocracy and citizens how does that get divided for any single governance vote yeah so of course the goal is for these houses to be co-equal so if you look at the diagram that we pulled up pretty early on in the collective that contains like a you know our current working model for where the basically distribution of responsibility falls so there's some things that are governed jointly by both houses there's some

things that are just the citizens house other things that are just the token house in general this is something that is going to require iteration right and that's why we have the foundation and that's why we have a constitution that very explicitly lays out a uh you know a practice of iteration and evolution because we're going to have to be tweaking those parameters for sure amazing well thank you guys so much for for joining us today i think we probably have one last question to wrap this show up and uh this is a really exciting day for i think for the uh the city of optimism let's say the state of optimism uh it's uh what's next so what's happening next with optimism obviously today's a big day ama uh ama is definitely happening like sequentially next but but after that

when i'm talking about like long-term picture it sounds like people can check their uh whether they received airdrop one today it sounds like the actual distribution of airdrop one if i'm reading the post correctly is going to happen sometime this quarter in q2 so sometime call it may or june and then what happens after that you want to take it sure well we published um a bunch of content today about what we said we're going to do so we have to go and do all the things that we published today but generally i think this is a good reminder to everyone that everything is influx it is still incredibly early the product that you

see today is one that's constantly being iterated upon the experience today will be very different from the experience two years from now so while we build out the governance and the collective and the ecosystem we'll be continuously making the protocol more secure more decentralized making it cheaper and easier to use so that's what's next we've got some full plates amazing well um that sounds like uh layer two somewhere to me can i add one more thing i'm cutting it off i wanna add more okay actually two things okay one just three four things five things just take them all out okay one on the technical front obviously we have a path to decentralization on the like you know technical architectural side that we put out about a month ago

so i just wanted to take a second to show that i just wanted to say one thing that carl has really like absolutely pilled me on being like a very awesome thing that's going to be coming about in the next few years is basically the interactions between the optimism collective and you know and basically taos and communities within optimism but also those beyond so i think that this is something that really we are just starting to scratch the surface with the sort of re-emergence of taos in the forefront is the interaction between these taos so what i'm like personally maybe one of the things i'm most excited for is to see the relationship between the optimism collectives governance and the governance systems both on it and within the broader ethereum community i think that's gonna be really interesting

to see some collective coordination mutually beneficial things all right guys i think one last question for you guys one last thing okay are you feeling optimistic [ __ ] yes i know chad told me not to swear but very optimistic stay optimistic y'all awesome guys thank you so much for coming on the show you guys again the infectious and energy of your whole team has proliferated out and made me plenty optimistic and hopefully the viewers the chat the listeners are feeling a little bit more optimistic as well because well we are faced with some very large problems in this world problems that seem to be outside of the scale of our

current institutions to be able to handle maybe may just maybe we have a bright path forward that we can actually see we actually see the steps uh first we get everyone on to layer two we get the the block rewards funding retroactive public goods we make our networks better and then those public goods those retroactive public goods go from being about ethereum to about the whole world and that is that is something that i wake up every single day i'm like man i don't actually have to be so bearish about the future of this world so thank you everyone on this panel for doing what you guys do uh because it is a north star for me and i think a lot of us in the ethereum community thanks guys love you guys appreciate you

guys action items of course for bankless listeners uh one is you can get involved in the city of optimism become an optimism citizen there's some clues dropped in the in the uh episode today how to do that you can also check your eligibility for airdrop one we'll include a link in the show notes and finally of course the same team is doing a twitter spaces right after this show so go live 30 minutes 30 minutes uh it's going to happen in about 30 minutes or so we'll have some other bankless content on evm equivalence this week of course gotta end with risks and disclaimers so dave and i have been so excited about this project uh we are also advisors on the optimism project so full disclosure when they invited us in

we were happy to accept uh very excited about what optimism is doing in the space very aligned with values we share but of course as always gotta end with eath is risky crypto is risky defy is you could definitely lose what you put in but we're headed west now the west is on the l2 it's the frontier it's not for everyone but we're glad you're with us on the bankless journey thanks a lot hey we hope you enjoyed the video if you did head over to bankless hq right now to develop your crypto investing skills and learn how to free yourself from banks and gain your financial independence we recommend joining our daily newsletter podcast and community as a bankless premium subscriber to get

the most out of your bankless experience you'll get access to our market analysis our alpha leaks and exclusive content and even the bankless token for airdrops raffles and unlocks if you're interested in crypto the bankless community is where you want to be click the link in the description to become a bankless premium subscriber today also don't forget to subscribe to the channel for in-depth interviews with industry leaders ask me anythings and weekly roll ups where we summarize the week in crypto and other fantastic content thanks everyone for watching and being on the journey as we build out the bankless nation