Igor Barinov: POA Network – Enabling Scaling Through Trust in Public Notaries (#299)

Transcript

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who is the tech lead for the POA network now the pol network i feel is one of those projects that challenges a lot of conventional wisdom on how crypto networks and proof of stake networks in particular should be built what's your opinion of it via liquor oh it's interesting so we are trained to think of centralization and dependence on individual actors as something bad but it doesn't necessarily have to be so it was super interesting to hear egos points on this yeah so is essentially this consensus algorithm where all of the validators are us notaries their identity is known and it has a very

unique mr. Yuni governance system I mean if you look at it from a game theory perspective probably you're not going to find it very sound you can have various critiques of it certainly I was getting a lot of critiques in my mind but the reason we failed this mirror interesting episode is at least for me the lens of game theory is is an interesting lens but sometimes human behavior is actually different from what what your mathematical model of the game is going to predict and and then you need experimental data you need experimental economics putting people in situations to see how they actually behave and I feel from that perspective it's it's

amazing that like a project is doing an experiment like that what if you may like notary's the validators and you wrote the proof of stake game that way I feel like they can be very valuable data that comes out of an experiment on how humans actually behave and they are given a position of responsibility in in that kind of way so without much further ado we give you the interview with ego hi you go thanks for being here today and so just that things off can you tell us what your background is and how you got into blockchain um hi my name is Igor I'm tech lead of pure a network my background have education in computer

science I worked all my life and in IT most of the time I worked in enterprise in mobile operators I got interested with black chain with Bitcoin and cannot stop since length quite easy right and from Bitcoin to Ephesian went from lithium I decided to stay with the theorem for a while because it's a I think the most exciting development that we have for the last four years what was it that caught your interest in Bitcoin before Bitcoin we participated as a team in distributed protocols if you if you

remember there is a Boeing where you know safety at home and some other distributed data processing algorithms and we participated in this and when I first time heard about you know peer-to-peer electronic care system I got excited and actually what we are doing now with our xti development is bringing this electronic peer-to-peer care system for like real world application with required speed and transaction price and programmability and which is very important for for the electronic money right so at the Vig is even then you don't understand it when you understand

that money can be free and yeah that's that's very exciting so that's how I started it was quite hard to get a job with before before if a long time in blockchain space so I work with multiple watching companies and participated in like all hackathons even before the blockchain hackathon were like a term like just you just come to a hackathon and you explain what Platini is to judges and and after you build something can show it to them and and after I worked as a consultant for a Singaporean company called the cronies build some

let's say smart contracts and tools around them which after and after this consultant I started boe and working with boa since then you started working with POA from the get-go so you're one of the founders but you don't you don't call yourself that you call yourself the tech lead why is that we don't ourselves found us and co-founders and you know we don't have si titles it's a it's it's a it's a form of organization we decided that all of us are like contractors contractors to the network into the protocol we had some initial roadmap and white paper and ideas about how to make a film protocol

you know scalable this way right and how to build tools which are like not available for for this type of protocols and we decided that we can do with our resources towards this idea and when you work in you know in in open source field it's easy to be a developer and to be builder than to be like CEO and and so forth right so we're not selling our products we don't have this you know commercial department business development and so forth yeah that's why we don't have like C titles technically there are some C titles because it's required by regulation for a force for

some operations but we don't use them not internally not externally and we have quite a file structure within the team so do you have like a corporation that's actually building these things or is it just a doll yeah it's it's quite a common legal structure when there is a foundation which holds some crypt assets and that relational company which is building stuff and not not even one operational company multiplication companies and the external partners and technically it worsen in legal field and that's right there are some companies we're not operating only as Dow because it's quite

hard and say to pay a double year's bills right with as a dower you have to have a company to pay from the same with you know with people and other expenses I get why you're why you don't have a CEO as you oh you know others see titles towards the outside but how does the governance inside POA actually work because someone actually has to decide which direction to much in right yeah we have a have to fund managers who decide how to spend funds and depends on the on the situation let's say four to five team leads and we have consensus team we have black scott which is our open

source blockchain Explorer team I have a token bridge team and the apps and all all other tooling right so I have four team leads and team leads are working with like external and internal resources but we do all contractors for this for this project right so we don't have like okay these people are employee and you know these are contractors and this like external contractors we all decided that were all contractors but with like some different decision-making abilities and in different fields this is very interesting but before we go deep down into how the governance of the network works could you just tell us

what does the POA network do and you have another network which is the X tie network what does that network do and what's the vision for each of them yeah it's you know it's changing from select from from time when we originally thought about this idea if you remember the likely April Fool's Day posed by FEMA foundation written by Vitalik when he he said that if humanity is migrating to you know Pio a consensus he said his back in days and it was joke right and the first time when we discussed a public permission network with real value based on if you don't protocol

people thought like it you know it's stupid to make right first of all it's a centralized which is a stronger argument it's it's hard to argue about it second is that it's not secure right it because proof work secure and other especially with you know this type of consensus with like exclusive group of validators are like not secure at all so that's what people think right it's not that I think so it was it started as an experiment like why do we need this experiment to make the protocol which is like if you know protocol more accessible to people and let people experiment with this protocol for for their own needs right

peewit Network basically had different consensus algorithm different set of all data's differently word structure but the same basic client right without any hard core changes in the four four four developers so it's quite easy to jump from network to network right and the the ex die is a if we think about this it's it's it's it's it's very new experiment because this network is actually the the first stable chain the chain with stable native token without any initial emission without any supply of this stable token so all tokens on all negative tokens of the on the network of breached from from main net

2x die so it's a new concept the theoretical concept of hard spoons are known for a couple of years but Ecsta is the first hard spoon with with a stable token which is not competing with the video right because the stable token home is on a film so that that's kind experiment that we made within this external network and you know people love to use it I think that the it's it was not possible out within the aphelion magnet Network and setting so we had to have we had to make it somewhere outside right so that's that's the main reason to exist and besides building networks it's important to build tool and if we

think about a film ecosystem some tools are not available for foresight genes and forks before it was like in fewer which was not available it still you know supporting only my net and test nets and either scan which is not supporting competing networks and meta masks right like three three very important tools for developers not supporting competing projects let's say right so that's that's why we decided to to spend our resources to build at least one tool and our plug-in Explorer we host it for four twelve networks and there are around 20 networks using this blockchain Explorer so that's our

contribution to the ecosystem and we like a videomaker system and we you know we basically staying here and building tools which can be used on main net can be used on side chains let's say let's idea of of POA as a protocol right allow people to experiment build tools and make this protocol you know scalable gets killed you to know this is not that important like it was two years ago right yes two years ago everyone thought okay what are we going to do with cryptic hitches and so forth now people are asking class about scalability and more about use cases and this you know the questions are changing from year to year right

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as well as Arthur Brightman of Tasos so if you're interested in broadening understanding of these cutting-edge technologies there's no better place to do it in stock or sessions join the conference in Tel Aviv on September 16th or come a day early for the stark 101 workshop where you'll build a stark prove our from scratch tickets are on sale now and you can find the registration page at epicenter rocks slash Stark where that's sta RK w ar e the first 50 people to use the code epicenter will get 20% off the regular ticket price we'd like to thank Stark we're sessions for their support of epicenter so let's talk about the POA Network fest it's a proof of authority network so there's a number of validators in this network and how does one become validated in this network

yeah we with slightly renamed it we called proof of autonomy because we think that it's a network based on Dao like it's it's exclusive now by Paula data's and exclusive means that there is a limited group of people who can make decisions within this Dao and and they can let new validators in on or they can let Awad validate or some network right so the the HPI network starts from a trusted ceremony so there is a boots taken of this network and we have a special role called master of ceremonies so this role boosted in new network and on board minimum required number of auditors who on board knew well data

through the governance process right so Peoria Network started with one master of ceremonies and three first validators after that well it has received a governance instrument which we call voting tab where they can propose ballots and each validator can propose ballot to add or remove of all data from the network and there is a quorum decision by other validators with equal votes to unboard new validators so to be in Neuville data usually validators apply on the forum or they can apply on some some probably apply somewhere else but the how it started they apply with

their application and there are some requirements and there are some requirements which limit number of subsets of potential validators from the subset of all people but you know the the subset which can be well datas is quite big and yeah it's it's also interesting that validators of POA are individuals and it's as far as I know it's the only network which is managed only by individuals not companies if you look into any other you know proof of stake or purely consensus it's usually it's a form of consortiums of of companies or financial organizations or some if in proof of stake it's it's more

likely like professional professional companies which are providing this staking services basically right and pew is even Network managed only by individuals like there it is there are no companies out there so what happens if a validator misbehaves what what happens if they act maliciously can can do they have to stake some funds that can then be slashed or how do you how do you make sure that they behave in a way that benefits the network as a whole yeah we think that well there is a way for for for other validate as to remove all data from from the consensus so any valid data you can propose a ballot to remove of our data from the consensus

usually misbehaving her in in Puri is when validators for some reason is not running his or her note right so it's like it's a common misbehaving that we that we saw during this two years then for example they forgot to pay for for the bill or because of the miss configuration let's say parameters of their notice too low and so forth right so while data's can vote out a validator and we had multiple examples when that it has voted out other validators that but the good thing here that the weekend sensors can tolerate right number of

faulty notes and even if but if one party there is well if one body it is misbehaving it's not a problem right because the consensus is fault tolerant yeah well data's have this governess application this application is a part of the consensus so it's runs within smart contract and smart contract is connected to the consensus and I read that validators in order to be a validator you have to be a US notary is that right yeah that's right that's that's right and and some people ask like why right and like do you want to ask why or like any other questions regarding yeah yeah why why US notaries

why specifically them okay so why why the u.s. not racer because first first of all it's it's it's it's it's a great way of making KYT on validators right we when we think about individuals what is the best way to get kyc right when people apply to be u.s. not sorry government is the US government on state level is making key YC checks on on applicants and results of these checks are publicly available right so also validators are taking some public responsibilities provide services and they cannot they cannot decline providing their identity to any third party who is interested in cross

validating identity right if you ask I've added of any proof of steak Network to confirm their identity they can do this or not right because it's only for you as a concerned let's say token holder with with POA validators you can ask to to make like no not really a related document from this validator and this way you can cross for the other identity like you can actually ask them to notarize something for you it's outside of the protocol but you can this way you can cross validate their identity but also the because of auditors are individuals it's interesting to understand you know what's what's their background

especially as a validator I don't want to have other validators from like some like social groups for example I don't want to see criminals as well data's right and when not risk cannot be you cannot have a previous criminal record so it's also a good wait to prove and and also not real law is regulated state by state so there is no organization in the US which can say okay guys you are not least you cannot do this right so it's it's regulated state by state and there is diverse group profile data from different state which is good for actually it's good for decentralization

right when I think about this well when people are not released they already agree to share information about themselves including their like residential address in in public so you can like you can about it residential addresses of all validators why the US notaries because with we thought that can be interesting use case and for for a us-based network and till now the leap your network is as far as I know it's the only us-based network which is like all validators are us-based and it's public network with like public token it's it's a good

experiment we thought that this type of network can be used with some local specific use cases for example one if you for some local or federal authorities will be interested to put some information on chain we thought that the POA based Network can be an advantage it didn't happen there but yeah so how did you find a number of computer savvy technology forward notaries who are interested in being a validate and how do you incentivize them to be one yeah that's with first of all date as it was quite quite hard right especially for

the first one so I presented it on on video meetups I'm Corgan either of Silicon Valley here you meet up so I present it over there it's actually when I announce the project and a few validators applied to be validated after my presentation and Silicon Valley film it up and after I visited conferences and meetups and usually from from one presentation we had like one candidate yeah that's that's how it started and after it was easier because you know when the project received some some hype and and also when the token started to be traded publicly well it is felt clear incentive so we designed the protocol

that the way that each each plug one point is created and there this coin is going to validated who created this block right so all validators are incentivized by the protocol to make a how we call it public duty by private actors right so there are private actors but they're doing public duty by you know participating and this participation of this type of towel right it's a its exclusive down because it's a limited group of Auditors but i still decentralized autonomous organization and they're not one one more thing with with individuals it's quite interesting that individuals they

cannot buy each other right like legally companies can can can form some you know I can buy shares of which other companies they can exchange tokens and so forth right so individuals are units validators agreed that they will not form when they will not form relations and we had one validator and who invited his girlfriend to be validated but after they decided to be a family he stepped out and not only she's a validator which is quite cool right she's keeping the rules like socials so they agreed not to form families between validators like or if family is formed

like one of while Davis would quit or both let's talk about security you know gaps are pretty unique because unlike other types of software they can hold astronomical amounts of value that's why getting systems audited creating robust security processes and fostering a culture of security in your organization is so important and to do this you should only trust experts with real security expertise there are a lot of security firms in the blockchain space but few have the experience and track record of trail fits and they've been in business since 2012 long before things like the Dow hack were even imaginable trail of bits works with your team to audit every aspect of your project and smart contract code is just the beginning they'll help you implement

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like to thank chillip it's for their support in the US legal language there is this concept of an unincorporated association or an unincorporated partnership so this is like a collection of individuals that is doing some activity but they have not incorporated in any of these legal structures like l NC S Corp C Corp etc mean the thing is now if an unincorporated partnership or Association and if there's even a legal lawsuit against that Association then the members of that association are individually infinitely liable for if something goes wrong in that lawsuit so wooden don't evaluators worry that this

kind of organization where they are identifiable individuals with their records accessible if if let's say there was a hack of the POA network and people lon lost a bunch of period oaken's or X died tokens or whatever then all of these individuals are going to be legally liable for that event it's a it's a good question we we don't know about lawsuit against this type of formations I like the first question I asked myself when I started to design the protocol was like is it even legal right for for individuals to create their own basically tokens and protect someone else resources and that was my

first question and I asked the course and I remember when I asked this question my perception was like I'm doing something wrong because I thought it was not possible to do something like this but they explained that it's it's it's totally feasible and and there are no legal risks the same question was with with our bridges product which can you know allow individuals to transfer tokens between networks like is illegal to transfer tokens or not so while data's can be can be legally binding to lawsuits if like whatever they doing is against let's say token holders right if they liked collude technically it's

possible and from my perspective as a protocol designer I think it's great right so it what protects the is done with this now from colluding because they understand the publicly exposed persons and they taking this responsibility I tried to call this skin on the game right they like they didn't like it that I call the skins the game so we call identity at stake so like most of the validated they already you know they're the people with you know their own like families and you know their own lives they don't want to risk this like status quo and they actually understand what they're doing

and they agree on this it's interesting that we have we have different different professions some people think like Oh most likely all validators a us us not least but not only in the US it's it's like a separate way of it's it's it's not it's not a job right for most people it's just like additional source of revenue for for most people so the there are different backgrounds there are software engineers business owners and also there are lawyers right so lawyers they can they understand what they're doing and that I think that they understand a little but theoretically

they can face a lawsuit and that's like anyone can stand face photoshoot but that's of course of course this is a question that is not specific for just POA so like a few months back I was talking to one of the one of the large investors of of maker now huge MKR holder and they were talking about these designs of these committees you know like the stability fee committee and this fee committee and that fee committee and committee members there are individuals and they have similar risks now if you're in a committee and you jack up the stability fee and somebody like

loses money because you jacked up the fee too high or too low what protects you from a lawsuit there yeah yeah I understand the further we with multiple lawyers and become legal opinions on on our products actually it was good to see Stephen pally here in your podcast we were a client of him but I understand that that's pass but I'm not a lawyer I cannot guarantee you know anything to the people participating and it's it's possible that I made a mistake well when I designed the protocol and we had validators had many questions for example like how to my you know they're

they're all Americans right the old not all Americans all US residents because you can be not only in the US without Deen America so we have a few Canadians and and one Russian citizen but the u.s. notaries and they participate in the consensus so the question is like how to how to tax revenue from the--from the consensus and in some networks some people don't care because it's have some you know came an entity and they don't here but here all well data's are exposed right and it was a question and they had long discussions about this and well tax season ended so I hope like validators made it right and would you

want to extend so right now only us notaries can be evaluators but in principle you could allow German notaries to be validators as well and what do you want to extend this geographically or will keep it limited to the US right so the idea of sidechains is that we can if we think about scalability yeah all right and scalability not only about transactions per second but also about like use cases and roadmap of the network we can we can we can extend it vertically right so we can we can think okay so yes for the it is like not enough like let's add you know some some other rear addictions with their own problems you know let's add some Europeans for dieter's with GDP

or regulation or we can we can we can make horizontal scaling and we can say yeah this model is interesting too in the you but let's have a network with you know European world leaders and so forth so that was sour like first a year about validator said and I think that BOE validator set is unique and it is good to keep it as it is right like us-based network with its Nautilus as validators and if you want the experiment we can start a new network with a new set of validators with ex die we started with network with basically with maker Dow right back with two validators view and maker though now I have ten validators

you know different companies organizations from different countries no individuals at all like all members are organizations some of them are Dow like meta cartel or giveth right some of them are companies like purism you know and then so forth so that that's a way right so if you want to have the same consensus but with different set of our data's we can launch one more network and there are multiple networks launched or planned to launch and the same consensus and governance model ocean protocol look so like so artists network from Austria several networks launched on the same ideas and the the validated set is different and also the experiment

for example artists Network they have parted as the same governance structure but what data's should put a bond right it's not taking like I should put a bond if they put a bond they can be a validator can be unburdened by the validators which is which is quite cool right because it creates I'm locking mechanisms within the token economy which is a good for for talking holders so what all of these networks have in common is the consensus mechanism can you explain how that works the consensus of QE yes well the the main idea is that there is a there is a set of validators which is managed by by smart contracts

by dow right and this this is known as a symbol protection mechanism right because if we if we understand who wall daters are and why they can create black ok understand if the network is operating under some assumptions of civil protection for example in proof of work right if you have more power you're a validator right for this block and well more power and you are likely to create a block right in proof of stake there is a set of stickers who have more points than any other people from the subset in delegated proof of State there is this set of people more tokens than anyone

anyone else staked and also there's a delegation people who delegate it right in POA there is a set of people who are selected by subset of this set and the whole set can manage this set by excluding validators or including them based on the i/o decision right so the the the governance is based on Dao and the the main question what it is is deciding on is who are validators so this is a part of simple control so second important part is reward distribution the protocol distribute disability award to validators it's embedded within the protocol and well

details also have what we call self sustainability mission so some emissions they can spend on the on the protocol to support apparentiy and and so forth but the the underlying DFT consensus can be swapped for the now for now we're using aura consensus which is developed by parity technologies and we plan to migrate to new censorship resistant consensus in 2020 so that's our plan well that's a it's quite quite easy thing because once when we want to be like what is more important what is the most important for pure consensus is the answer to the

question who well data are and why validators are these keys right because they were voted in by other validators and when you upgrade the network say when you switch to the honey badger protocol next year and if will all validators actually have to agree with this upgrade or how do you follow through on this once a year we have a security incident which can be like incident type of like consensus fault so we have to upgrade protocols it's because I'm like problems with an implementation of let's say beretta client or some parks and aphelion protocol which can cause these problems so at least once a year we have to to propose like updates to validators

and they have to agree on this so this type of upgrades are usually proposed and like you know in emergency forms of auditors it's a they don't have much time to think about it right most of the time the upgrades are are proposed for the test Network and after the test network they they propose to the Puri main network in a form of hard force or protocol upgrades to validate as some of them have software engineering background who have thought it is working and you know Amazon Facebook some some other companies they can review some some changes and agree on these changes or not right if we propose upgrade of the of the back of a

consensus which is known they will upgrade it but I say if we propose I don't know switching from Peru to DPOs it will be very different discussions so most likely they will ask many questions and I don't know outcomes of this decision by validators that's that's not my network right that's their network sure can can anyone propose changes or who has the power to propose changes to the to the protocol technically anyone can propose changes so anyone can make a PR and Orwell deters themselves can can can make their own changes the this Zeebo control and the word distribution part is supports

of great ability through smart contracts an implementation can be uploaded to anyone in the form of smart contract right and validators can vote to replace this new implementation like old implementation to new implementation using Unchained voting without any like without asking anyone's right back anybody they can propose a change to the whole consensus with up the breathability of the of the consensus and also with a great ability of the client so technically they can replace me everything they can do it for for good or for bad if you're holding a

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money in a year if if our infrastructure has the same performance that's right what we saw that one token price is going down for sample data it's not interesting to be valdes anymore so they step out and the rewards per year as you said for for for the arrest well data's increasing right because we have smaller rounds and they basically create more points so that's what we let watch that's something that we observed at well deters some validator stepping out because the award is not interesting for them anymore but if in a system like this if I'm a validator I would

naturally want the value set to be small because the bigger the set grows the more diluted we I get there are some points right so like minimum number of our daters for the governance is three validated right so without if if you have less than three valuators then you cannot make governance decisions writing it is two versus one right x2 oh free to vote to vote for governance decision the maximum number of all data's let's say three thousand right it's a it's a limitation of state storage within the current setting that we have was like the same as an ethereal right the the

Optima what is the optimal number of all theaters like when when I ask you this question myself like what is a number first I looked into other chains he was 21 validator is it enough or not there's no plan and also looked into academic research there is a paper by Amin Geun and some other researchers from Cornell of decentralization in Bitcoin and in the theorem and the video and he collect a claim within this paper than number of auditors like more than 20 in a quorum type of system I cannot repeat it as it is but basic idea is that if you have 20 validators

or more than this this is enough to be like more decentralized and the current state of Bitcoin in the field so that was my base point okay guys we need to have like 20 or more validators so I told them like idea number of all theaters when when I bootstrap the network I thought it would be great if we can have like 25 validators and then never reach 25 and now it's a 18 plus myself ceremonious like we-we-well data without voting rights and at 19 well data's when X day started it was only one validator yes because I didn't find a group of people who wanted

to give all data the next day because no incentive no token you know no reward nothing you just have to run a node pay money for it and people were not interested in running this network and it was quite hard to it you know first first validators yeah I think that based on my like based on based on our experience was with with updates the validator set of let's say 20 to 25 people in basically in different time zones can upgrade the the protocol within 24 hours which is not that bad right so with within 24 hours they can

solve coordination problem to like to install like new like to agree that they have to install new new software and install it on the server's deploy it and confirm and you know discuss again and wait you know it's a it's quite good with like just imagine we have thousands of our data's this coordination problem will be much harder to solve right without automatic updates and and all this centralization points there's also a token in this network the poet token so what does that token do while the the the protocols was designed in 2017

right so we and we looked into how to make even protocol more scalable so basically copy the the idea of of the eFilm utility of the token and basically it it's a it's a way to pay for gas and also unit of account and medium of of exchange on the network that that that was the basic promise of this token later on we exchanged use case we weathered way that additional use cases so the the interesting use case was with the with the first bridge which were launched on POA to this native token we wrapped it into EFC 20 token on main net

and this token it was like the first ESC 2009 connected to coin payments so it was possible to use it as a as a medium of exchange between let's say vendors and and friends also it can be landed on borrowed on affluent swapped to other tokens on unis pop traded on in a raft for more native tokens on exchanges so trees like arbitration speculation features which is also a part of any token economy right and and possibly will be some staking features if while data's of PE decide to tow to migrate to to our new directly that professed a

consensus tell us about this new delegated POS yeah let's dedicate it for proof of steak is designed for for Forex die first so the the one of the main question taught about it is people think that this structure is centralized I don't call it centralized I call it exclusive like quadratus can decide who will be new validators and we can see on the forum that validators don't like sample data and the reasons for example one obvious reason because i knew about it and don't know any other valid data rate the people don't trust him that's that's one of the one of the problem

like exclusion of the protocol is something that can be not not good in some situations for example in potential censorship problems when ba dataset is small and exclusive and there are some you know orders for example to stop and not do whatever you do the less exclusive validator said can break promises of fluidness of the network right of the consensus that's one of the main reason to make the public permission network with inclusive access to to seat of validators so that that's that's why we need staking there's

anyone with staking token can participate in in a staking as a as a candidate who can be elected as a validator and to to bring a reputational part to this election and also to select a subset of of all data's not only based on their own state but also by like public trust we added delegation to this consensus and this is that's why it's triggy the proof of state some people don't like the gated proof of stake ideas especially after you know us and they think it's still centralized so that we looked into problems with with Evo's and

like what people think that the centralizing Eros and decided to design it differently for example delegate errs and in deep deep us consensus by POA are incentivized by the protocol so they receive part of the omission reward we can get some fees from bridges and so forth and us they don't get any reward from the protocol and for the work they get is under the table basically right and also the how reward is distributed between validators and alligators is a bit different overall validators within the validator set who are elected to be validators for

this taking a poke get equal reward right no matter how many coins you have you you will get equal reward for the fault for this slot right let's see if we have nineteen validators like each validator will get one at 119th within each of these 119th but it has distribution between validator and all the Gators who staked on this delegate and this distribution is actually also fair to tell Gators when they delegate more on validator they decrease reward of the validator and they camp in between each other but we can imagine that delegate is will have so many coins

that reward of the validator will be zero right because the pressure will be a pressure of coins delegated on this validators were bit too big so that's why we added what we call saturation point and below the saturation point the water father just cannot get like duo right of the saturation point so on like worst case scenario each Val D that can be sure that they will get 30% out of one 119th of the reward per first taking a poke so that's something that we that way that for a for fairness and also I'd like to mention that the staking

consensus reward distributions evil control all this consensus related parts of this protocol but not beef tea part they all implemented in sodium which is good for for developers because they can let's say if someone is interested in taking this protocol and adapting it for their own side chains they can take it and tinker with it and you know it's a high-level language it transferred an EDM like all advantages of solidity access to developers access to smart contract auditors for modification which is very hard to get on like protocol built on like low-level let's see

what's really fascinating about what POA is that you're like you know challenging conventional wisdom on many dimensions and you have a protocol that that does many things that other protocol designers just wouldn't touch now there are reasons why protocol designers wouldn't touch things like this right so for example this idea that you can have a minimum reward rate for the evaluator it cannot go below 30% of 1 by 19 this is an issue that's being debated in the cosmos eco system should be it should they be like a ubi for evaluators it should they be like a basic income for

all of these validators the problem that prevents something like cosmos from doing it is that the argument is if you give a ubi to all the evaluators well the evaluators will just promise the delegate as a delegate with me and I will give you part of my ubi as extra rewards outside the protocol and so the ubi will not function as a ubi because the validators and the telly haters can break the ubi outside the chain now it feels like you haven't worried about a problem like that at all and you will implement that you be a ubi and we'll get to see the result of that right and the visa verses from from from only from

from steak tokens there is no rewarded that they distribute between them as a reward per block right they only distribute the worth that they get from the from the tokens they state right so there is a there is an emission rate and they get the word based on this emission rate from the tokens they play staked and people staked on top of them right there is no reward which is created like out of nothing each block and after based on some distribution you have to distribute it between different parties also these DPOs consensus supporting multi change taking so the in token lives on on on my net on a film

magnet and can be breached 2x die or can be breached to another network with the same emission curve right and the same supply so if I take 1 X die 1 I'll get my reward the next day 1 and I cannot take on X day to write because breach knows that I breached my token 2x day 1 but if I see that there are too many delegator so next I want or there is a only one or let's say only 3 validators on on next day 2 I can I can breach my tokens to the next network and and delegate on validators on the second network I I took this concept from

MMORPG so if you ever played World of Warcraft there are servers which are like over populated and you have the same and game setting but it's you know more people it means that you have to wait longer and lines and some some bosses are you have to wait for the response so you can move your character to another server using a bridge right and there on this server you can you know play with all your items and get whatever you want from the game but with was different let's say economic terms right but it's kind of the same game so that's what we call multi change taking

when people can and also it solves our problem with like what if we want to launch one more network like ok today we enjoy X day but the same concept can work with different with different stable tokens and very interested in ample fourth which is a very interesting concept and some some other stable tokens like can we launch one more Network like X Day but with different native token and the same staking token so it's possible so we've talked about X tie for a while now maybe maybe we should give a brief introduction of what that actually is would you do that yeah sure advertise what because the

first step ever in a stable chain so it's a it's a it's a new site scene based on film protocol with die as a native token how to make dyes a native token we have a interoperability solution token bridge and this token bridge can be died from a net 2x die so on my net this bridge allows to lock/unlock die right and on the X I said this bridge allows to mint and birthday next day some meaning and burning of native tokens is something that is unique for for blockchains because usually the emission curve is is defined by the protocol and external

events cannot just know sent to consensus messages ok please print this amount of coins for this user right that's something that we don't have usually in in consensus algorithms for for negative tokens so with X die each block is created with now with empty reward like no reward at all but when die is locked on on a theorem side the bridge can relate this event and this event is is a comment to the consensus to to mint new coins for a user who locked these points on the theorem site the market cap of X dies like 20 30 mm day so this amount of day is locked on a

few minutes I'd and minted on X decide that's something that gives very interesting perception when you use the network because if you have an account balance and die it looks like you have an account balance in dollars right in one time passes you have the same account balance as if you don't spend it and something that is very convenient for us in real life right and it's very hard to get in cryptocurrencies that's why this protocol we started to think how to use it in peer-to-peer and there are some very exciting developments around the protocol by the

community the best walk most of all not well-known is a burner Walt bye bye Austin Griffith and the Paquito which is a burner Walt implementation on iOS and Android by the porchetta team who like community created this wallet this is the second big use case for Forex day is platform for smart contracts it's interesting to to use it for for smart contract developers because they can they can understand how much will they pay for for platform usage right and also they can give stable balances to their users and they can calculate unit

economy of their smart contracts which is also important for for many use cases like if you if you discuss economy of a game with a game developer we have calculation of lifetime value of a user right and how much they spend to to give the user how much they spent on basically hosting the user and what is the revenue of this game developer and with volatile tokens like one if you don't mind that it's a it's hard to predict right what was the price of a video will be in in a year or in a day so the POA and Eckstine networks and not trustus but they offer fast finality and

low transaction costs in some way this limits the use cases for the POA mechanism so what are things that you think definitely should absolutely not run on POA for the for me it's interesting to to see any use case which can be run on the on the chain is interesting to see and the question that we don't know the answer for is how the network will operate under conditions of pressure and both on like well details and denial of service attacks which didn't happen much on side chains so for us it's it's quite interesting to see

the all type of applications deployed on the network although we cannot facilitate some of these activities but we are working on bringing in private transactions using geeky snarks we're not developing snaps ourselves but we're helping other teams to bring mixers to pure index day and to integrate these mixers into some wallets like burner walls and pocket we have for this geeky privacy fund and we already distributed 40,000 died during last two months and we plan to distribute 60,000 diet more and widely this those projects will

bring use cases which can be interesting right for the like censorship resistance and so forth I mean that public networks should not afraid of specific use cases if public network can can can operate with any use case then it's truly public network cool and what kind of applications are getting the most traction on the PPO network and on next day what with with P we now we are focusing on on use cases with with games blocking games and at the moment the if you open the state of the

taps she's a ranking site for four platforms with smart contracts the game number one is called G own it's a geocaching game it's it's based on pure Network right so they decided to use it because it provides temporary scalability solution and they don't need to liberate their application to run it on a side chain it's actually quite interesting game because it it it's not showing wallets and tokens and balances in tokens to users and getting traction and after the big they will get enough traction with users they will open this token economy to people the the use case for forex day

is what we plan to to focus on and facilitate peer-to-peer payments so integration with more wallets very exciting development with with X Day is integration with discord so exercise integrated with discord tip button that allows you no chipping and airdrops and some form of gambling like dice and and so forth within the chat which is quite cool to make an in stable coins and also we want to support X time as many words as possible and facilitate real-world usage of this stable coin so basically P we for games and X day for for payments what do you hope to

achieve in the next year or so with P o NX I the main achievement for us will be migration to dedicated proof of stake and the second part of this migration is migration to new BFD consensus protocol which were working on for the last year it's called honey badger 50 it's quite exciting because it's a synchronous consensus and the censorship resistant with one chain randomness and it's already implemented we were made the security orders for it and now integrating with several partners with luxo and artists we are integrating it

into parity theorem client and when it's integrated will send upstream to the parity and let other people to use this exciting consensus algorithm there are not many censorship resistant consensus out there and honeybadger was quite hard to implement we also had the educational articles how the consensus is working and what are our extension to this consensus like dynamic honeybadger because honey badger itself is not designed to to support some features which are important in peewee or DPI settings for example it doesn't support

dynamic validator set when we can you know add or remove all data's from the from the consensus and that's something that we had to to implement on top of honeybadger so we have educational materials on our forum at this very hard consensus is explained it and it's a in easy-to-understand language thank you for being on the show that was super interesting I'm excited to see where this project goes yeah thank you very much for hosting me yeah we release new episodes of epicentre every week click here to subscribe for hundreds of insightful interviews with some of the leading minds in blockchain and crypto

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