How Stablecoins Will Bring Trillions Into Digital Assets - Jupiter Co-Founder

Transcript

And you know, no shade to USDC, obviously a great company, have done incredible things, doing a lot of great stuff on the regulatory side. So nothing against them, but if we can internalize that ourselves and then potentially figure out ways to kind of distribute that yield to JLP holders, to jube stakers, to other users of the products, I think that's a really powerful value prop for us. The stable coins could ultimately make their way out of Jupiter and into the the rest of the Salana world, right? like what what would that look like and how can you continue to bring value acrruel back to Jupiter even as this Jupusd token ends up becoming composable with the rest of the Salana DeFi ecosystem.

>> Welcome back to the rule. >> This is your home to learn from the biggest guests, the brightest minds at the tip of innovation. >> Our goal is to help spread the collective knowledge of everyone in our community. >> We are breaking crypto out of its echo chamber and taking it to the real world. Sit back, relax, and enjoy it. >> Cash, welcome to the show. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, man. Uh really, really cool um to have you on. We've been keeping track of the Salana ecosystem for a long time. Um I mean, just generally we're technology maxis. Like we're we're not Eric or Salana Maxis. We we like to take a broadstroke view of the ecosystem. And at Jupiter, you guys have done incredible things and grown incredibly quickly. Um it's your first

time on the show. So before we jump into everything that's happening recently and the and the new uh stablecoin launch partnership with Athena, could you just kind of just give us an intro first to you, you know, how did you end up building in this in this wild industry that we uh done? >> Uh it was a long and uh securitous route. Uh so I first got into well I first got Bitcoin back in the free faucet days. I don't know if you remember that back in whatever that would have been like 2009 or something like that. you could just go to websites and click and get like full Bitcoin for free. Uh, obviously I lost all of that Bitcoin very quickly, but was intrigued and it wasn't really until 2016 that I got like nerd sniped by the space. I uh my background is in postmodern political

philosophy is like what I studied in college and I read the Ethereum white paper and in the first paragraph it talks about Dows and this idea of these autonomous organizations that you know can reshape the fabric of society uh perhaps and I was immediately taken. got some ETH, got into the uh the Dow, like the very first one and as you're know exactly uh although so it got hacked. I was like I don't know what the hell this is, but then I got Ethereum Classic uh because there was the the fork, right? And I was like, this is the greatest industry ever to exist. I just get free money out of uh thin air. Uh anyway, to make a long story short, over the next whatever five years, I was like following the space pretty closely, but not didn't really get all the way in

until 2021. uh when a good buddy of mine Ash BD who people might know as the CMO over at the Salana Foundation uh he was a poker buddy of mine I was going to get a job at a bank he kind of grabbed me by the shoulders and said uh what the hell are you doing let's go do something in crypto and that's when superh got going so ran super team or worked on super team part of the founding team uh for four or five years I was the sherpa over there uh basically helping onboard entrepreneurs and builders to Salana and so I just did that as a nonprofit exercise for many years until the beginning of this year when I joined Jupiter full-time as the cat herder.

That's my official title, I should say. COO is only what I use because it fits on a little banner, you know. Uh but cat herder is my uh more precise uh title. >> Wow. Okay, we we might have to update. I think we just updated that uh in our banner. Cat herder at Jupiter. >> Okay, nice. >> It's official. Another promotion. We're two promotions in. >> That's pretty good. >> I should come on more often. This is good. I like this. Yeah. You know, actually the funny thing is I was only the cat earner because we don't really do titles at Jupiter, >> but then we did uh we signed anou uh with the Kazakhstan Central stock exchange and to like tokenize equities in Kazakhstan. And they were translating my little quote into Russian and they were like I we we what do we do with

this? What is a cat herder? That's not a concept in the Russian language. So like just call me COO and that's fine. So I've been running with that for for press ever since >> and it's stuck. There you go. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um, man, you guys have been doing great things. Uh, a couple announcements just just uh went live. You guys are doing prediction markets with KHI. You've got a stable coin uh partnership with Athena. Um, so all all kinds of cool stuff. Can you can you just kind of give us a speed run of, you know, when you join Jupiter and catch us up to, you know, where you guys are at today? So, Lana had a very nent ecosystem um, you know, just a few years ago and now it's exploded. um just give us give us like the highlights, you know, where where have you seen the most

adoption and the most activity over the last 12 to 18 months? >> Yeah, in the last I mean the last 18 months in particular have been crazy. So to the degree that like the broad world knows about Jupiter, oftentimes they used to know us as just a DEX aggregator, the top DEX aggregator on Salana and the best place we would route across all liquidity pools that existed on chain and give users the best execution price every single time. That was kind of the motto and we became very dominant in that vertical and then it became clear that hey we have a bunch of user trust. We have a absolutely cracked uh technical team. Uh we should start to expand and create more value per user.

Uh and that's really when we embarked on this DeFi super app journey that we've been doing over the last 18 months. So we went from one product 18 months ago now we have a dozen revenue generating products which is pretty crazy. Uh a few kind of like small highlights. First would be our perplex launched that I think just about 18 months ago actually maybe a little bit less. Um, and it's been since basically since it was launched been number one by volume, certainly number one by fee paying volume. Uh, and that kind of continues to today on Salana. A lot of people use it. We only have three assets on there. Salana, Bitcoin, and ETH. But it's guaranteed liquidity at basically up to I think 20 million max size per trade.

So people really dig that. Uh, and I should say that JLP, which is the uh, liquidity provider token for per is like $2.1 billion asset. Uh, and that's been really great to see people. It's the best token on Salana in many ways. That's one highlight. Uh, more recently we launched Jupyter Mobile, which is our mobile wallet and our desktop extension. Passed a million downloads on that. People absolutely love it. The only app that shows you your trades with P&L, with your watch list, with your portfolio across all of DeFi in one consolidated view. And then if I had to pick one last one, I would say Jupyter Lend, which we just launched in Q3, ran that up to a billion dollars in supply in eight days. Uh, fastest growing Salana protocol in history. And uh, we did that in conjunction with the Fluid guys, who are awesome as well. And that

kind of set the tone for like how we wanted to continue to grow. We realized that we have a lot of distribution. We have a lot of like user trust and we have you know many 8.4 million wallets connected to Jupiter just in Q3 alone right and so we have a lot of users and that is really attractive to other partners that want to enter Salana uh like fluid or like Athena who was the the more recent partnership that we announced and we think that's going to continue on. Same thing with Kelshi with the prediction marks that we just launched two days ago. They want to work with, you know, the people that have the user trust and that have that distribution. And that's Jupiter >> asset management redefined built on ERC7621.

Standardize how you launch, manage, and trade onchain baskets. This is Alvara, the standard for onchain asset management. Blockchain shortcuts, templates, and widgets launch without friction for builders by builders. Visit enso.build. Habachi provable. Trade per with speed and security. Earn rewards. Visit hibachi.xyz. Trading on fire. I I want to dig particularly into the Athena partnership and what you guys are doing with Jupusd.

But you you mentioned the user number. Did you say 8.3 million? Is that Did I get that right? >> You did not. 8.4 million. 8.4 million. >> Let's not be bearish now. You know >> that's 8.3 is FUD. 8.4. That's right. Um because we we were just talking about the state of crypto uh report that came out of A16C. They estimate that there's 40 to 70 million monthly active users on chain. Uh this is kind of like the most active subset of users. They're bridging. They're using the apps.

They're they're actively self-custodying and they're using these things actively. Um monthly active users. And then you know we've got 181 million monthly active addresses. Uh these are number of distinct active uh addresses across blockchains. Um and then we've got 716 million global crypto owners. These guys might be on centralized exchange, might own crypto uh in in a centralized account, not self- custody, not bridging but 8.4 4 million out of the 40 to 70 million that are on chain is I mean it's incredible market share that to have you know upwards of >> just you know whether it's 15 20% or so 10 15% of the global population that is

using these things onchain um and so I think that speaks to Solana's distribution it speaks to Jupiter's distribution and it and it means that now like you're doing you guys have the opportunity to launch these verticalized products these adjacent product offerings that are all complimentary and we see a lot of teams go after this super app concept. Few of them are going to survive. Few of them are going to capitalize on the opportunity. They need the distribution that you guys have. So I think I think this speaks to uh the opportunity here and also uh what what you guys have at your fingertips.

>> Was there an inflection point before we get into the stable coin conversation that you guys saw, hey, we've reached an inflection point? we reached the critical mass of users that are familiar with Jupiter, they're on Jupiter, now is when we can embark on this broader user journey. Did that happen or was it just kind of more gradual an evolution, one product launch after the other? >> Yeah, you know, it really was, uh, a slow and hard grind, right? Especially in the wake of FTX, uh, which, you know, everyone remembers is quite a painful experience for anyone who was on Salana, that was that was pretty brutal, right? So, it goes down to eight dollars, proclaimed dead by basically every project that's out there. And at the time a lot of projects ended up leaving right they're like well there's no future on Salana uh and so we'll go

somewhere else but Jupiter never did stayed on uh and then from there just like as things steadily steadily got better you know Jupiter kind of grew along with it there was no in particular point where things went up but just to put some numbers to it like we're seeing ridiculous growth every quarter so like versus last quarter our volumes are up 70% it's like somewhere in the neighborhood of $240 billion in volume just in Q3 alone right u you know our uh our TVL grew by 42 2% in Q3 relative to Q2. So I guess it feels kind of gradual because it's just like this constant growth curve that's just up and to the right. Uh and yeah, we're we're lucky to have it. I think that PERPS was the first big bet. Seeing that PERPS could work, that we can kind of expand the

product offering and retain those users and kind of convert them and upsell them, cross-ell them, etc. Uh that was the first indication that hey, this can really work and that's when I think we went all in and started doing all the different products that exist. >> Yeah. Incredible. Um, okay. Let's dig into uh into one of these products, which is the uh JUP USD stable coin in partnership with Athena Labs. Uh, I'm going to read off just a couple things here that stick out. This new token will serve as the core liquidity and collateral asset across the entire Jupiter ecosystem, including perpet uh perpetual futures, lending, and spot trading platforms. Maybe you can just speak to, you know, the scale, but also the effect of unifying liquidity in your own stable coin. Maybe just can you

describe what it means to unify liquidity in in a stable coin and what that means for the platform overall and then for it to be a stable coin of your own choosing, right? It's not it's not a stable coin you guys are importing from somewhere else or or no, you're the the issuers in in collaboration with Athena. What does it mean to to do this in general for the platform and then what does this mean for for it to be your stable coin? >> I think it means uh a whole hell of a lot at a few different levels, right? So I'm fond of saying that crypto has product market fit across three categories and that's payments, profits, and ponzies. And obviously Jupiter does not really get involved in the Ponzi side of things. And we're pretty well established in the profit side, right?

Around trading, yield generation, etc. It was really payments that was the big missing piece for us. And so for us it kind of fills in this this kind of critical hole that we had in this DeFi super app vision. The goal of Jupiter right now is anything that you want to do on chain you should be able to say just use Jupiter you know to a friend I want to send money around the world just use Jupiter. That's the kind of goal that uh we're going after. And payments are obviously a giant business right $300 billion plus of stable coins globally. I think pretty much everyone knows that number is going to at least a trillion including the Treasury Department uh put out a report in that same direction. Uh, and so I think we're really still in the early stages of stable coin adoption. And for Jupiter to

have its own branded stable coin is a great way for us to, you know, build up even more trust to capitalize on the existing trust that we have and build up more trust here and then also kind of control and internalize some of the the revenue and the growth within the products. Just like for a little bit of context inside of JLP, uh, well, to zoom for a second, our PEPS product is not an orderbook based perspect if your audience is more familiar with like the EVM landscape. Uh, and the JLP token, like I said, is $2.1 billion or so in AUM and something like $750 million of that is in stable coins.

That's all in USDC right now. Uh, and you know, no shade to USDC, obviously a great company, have done incredible things, doing a lot of great stuff on the regulatory side. So, nothing against them, but if we can internalize that ourselves and then potentially figure out ways to kind of distribute that yield to JLP holders, to dupsters, to other users of the products, I think that's a really powerful value prop for us. uh and it allows us to kind of have full control end to end of the spectrum, right? Apple famously was really big on this and uh you know we don't want anyone to open up the computers to touch the motherboard. Obviously in DeFi it doesn't work that same way, right?

You're open and composable by default. Uh but that doesn't mean that there aren't opportunities to kind of control the brand experience and the product experience at every level of the stack. Uh so we're very optimistic about how fast we'll be able to grow. Again, we have a very high a very large number of stable coins directly in our protocols already that we can start to convert out uh into our own stable coin and I think that gives us a real leg up uh in addition to the distribution that we have and the trust that we have and so on. >> Very cool. Th this is an approach that um it's not just you guys, right? Right. This is an approach that perpetuals exchanges are taking overall uh where they're seeing that they have uh the majority of their collateral in one particular stable asset be it USDC uh

and then they're innovating on that and they're going and they're launching their own stable coins. Um >> you know at at on one hand we're internalizing this into into our own engine but on the other hand we're we're deploying more and more stable coins left and right. There's a new stable coin launching every day, >> right? What do you what do you think it's is going to be the result of this this Cambrian explosion of stable coins? You know, are is it an opportunity for middleware and infrastructure to come in and kind of unify this once again? you know, we we don't want to reach kind of the same fragmentation that we have in in in Ethereum world uh you know, across all the L2s and you know, wrap staked ETH this version that version like h how can we bring this all together so that

um you know we have one uniform uh liquidity layer uh we have uniformity across our industry and we're not confusing newcomers into the space. Yeah, I mean I think it's a great point and I think this uh bulcanization of liquidity as uh my buddy Ramsey at the Salon Foundation would say uh can be a real problem, right? And I think uh the real short-term effect I said most of these stable coins are not going to last very long, right? In the same way that everyone's launching a memecoin launchpad, you know, three to six months ago and basically, you know, a handful of them still kind of remain standing, I think stable coins will have the same opportunity where many people see the attractiveness of the business model and the power uh the power of the narrative and they want to get on top of that,

right? But the truth is when you have a lot of divergence, you inevitably have to have some convergence back afterwards. And I do think that that's going to happen on the stable coin side. from uh kind of an industry level. The two things that are really incumbent upon us are one more experiments in terms of unifying that liquidity. There's stuff like this on Salana right now and other places where you're kind of uh collecting a bunch of different stable coins under the hood and then kind of treating them as equal. >> I am not as bullish on that approach honestly because I think different stable coins have different risk assumptions and it's not always fair to say that they should be onetoone. So, I think the more likely path is that there's pressure put on the industry to build really high quality stable swaps that have exceptionally low slippage.

Right? The problem is not too many stable coins. It's too much slippage as you're trying to move between them because then if I'm going from $1,000 of, you know, let's say uh JPUSD to $1,000 of USDC, I want $1,000 of USDC back, right? I don't want to get $996 back. And that can really break the experience. And I think there's great uh, you know, demonstrations in this direction already. A major credit to our friends over at Fluid who like I said are helping build Jupyter Lend on Fluid right now on on Ethereum. There are times where it's less than one BIP oftentimes 10 pips uh is the only uh kind of fee or slippage that you pay between uh major stable coins. That requires deep liquidity across the different stable coins. And what JUPUSD is going to have is you know at least

$750 million of liquidity just from the JLP pool alone. Right? So we feel very confident that we'll have deep enough liquidity to have exceptionally low slippage uh between stable coin transfers and that's going to allow us to kind of uh persevere uh over the long run. >> It feels like we're reaching a tipping point where DeFi is becoming more capital efficient than Wall Street and and once we reach that point that's when I think it becomes more of a risk to Wall Street institutions to not be on chain, >> right? like I I if if they're if they can get a fraction of a bip like you're saying if they can get you know pips on chain by going back and forth in between

assets whether that's you know it could be tokenized stocks at a certain point right and and ultimately this could be what they're trading and they're going back and forth between you know whether it be stable coins tokenized stocks all these different asset classes that ultimately will be onchain and available >> it becomes greater uh it becomes better price discovery better liquidity maybe better prices and and more coste effective for them to execute their their trading experience on chain rather than continue to do so offchain even though where they're they're they're being forced to innovate. H have you had any conversations with Wall Street institutions or any any of these asset managers and trading firms that are kind of are they seeing it this way

or generally what what is the what's the vibe and sentiment that you're these guys? Uh so yes across all three I mean uh again because of Jupiter's kind of position in the ecosystem we're oftentimes the first port of call for those kind of partners and you know what I've noticed over the last two years or so is that crypto as a technology cannot really be sold right it really has to be bought like for me to go to you and try to explain and kind of force it down your throat is is very hard and you know god bless the people that are doing that work in Washington DC and elsewhere uh but I do think that like where you're going to actually see a lot of adoption is going to be when people see the users they see the product benefits and they see the volumes really starting to

happen there. I do think that FX uh in general has long been the kind of you know white whale of the industry and again there's like really cool things happening there. Shout out to Altitude and the Squads family who've got a really great business offering uh for Euros USDC and stuff. Uh, and I think you're just going to see more and more of that where they do have to kind of cannibalize their own revenues when they come on chain, right? So that you're asking them to give up something and the thing they have to get in return has to be big enough to justify that trade-off. At least on the Wall Street side, certainly on the capital allocator side, there's no doubt uh that, you know, they're all coming on chain. Many of them are talking to us and other major protocols. I don't think that they're

quite that far on the risk curve just yet. And here I'm talking about the multi-billion dollar funds, right? not the, you know, $10 to $100 million liquid funds in crypto. Uh, I think we still have a little bit of a while to go, but for the first time, they're the ones knocking on the door. They're the ones asking for questions. I mean, one of the biggest banks in the world showed up in my email like a week ago, be like, "Hey, we'd love to urgently talk about some new product ideas." >> Just cold outreach. >> Uh, they they got a little intro from somebody else, but yeah, I didn't know that it was coming. It just like showed up in my inbox like, "Hey, connected you to, you know, I won't say who it was, but every one of your viewers has heard of this uh this entity, right?" Uh, and

so we're starting to see a lot more of that appetite come in. Uh, but it is incumbent on the technology continuing to get better, right? It's, uh, I think everyone in the Trafire world knows that crypto is still not ready for prime time literally right now. But now everyone can see the path to get there in the next 12, 24, 36 kind of months. >> Yeah. Beautiful. Um, man, it's exciting. I'm just I'm dying to know what this page is. Uh, best of luck in that BD journey. >> Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. No paperwork signed or anything. So, please don't to, you know, buy Jeep on the back of that just yet. But >> that's how it starts, man. That's how it starts. Very, very cool. Um, okay. I'd love to dig into a little bit more of the nuance in Jupusd. Um, >> you you got uh Athena uh as sort of this

collaboration partner and and we've seen this we we've seen them do this with some of their other uh their other partners, but could you just walk through what the journey is to ultimately spin up your own stable coin? What is the role that that Athena plays? What is the role that Jupiter plays? And how do you collectively bring Jupusd to life? >> Yeah, you know, I'll tell you it's a it's a bit of a funny story because we were at least a month and a half, maybe two months into building it out ourselves, fully by oursel, right? In order to do so, you need different entities that have these open-ended fund licenses. You have to get these regulatory approvals. Like, it's a pretty complicated legal and regulatory matter, even outside of the tech side of things, right? And that just takes a lot of time to get the necessary licenses.

and so on. And uh we had been working with a number of great partners including Securitize and Black Rockck who are the ones who make the Viddle uh token which also backs USDB from Athena. Uh and you know it wasn't until we saw the hyperlquid USDH proposal process that it really occurred to us of like hey maybe we should partner with the best. We just did this with Fluid the best guys in lending worked out very well. Uh maybe we can try it uh doing it again. So I reached out to guy and you know we had a few calls and honestly within less than two weeks we met up in Korea and some other places and within two weeks the the deal was signed and we were ready to go. In terms of the actual kind of roll out it is a little bit

different for us than it is for some of them some of their other partners. Athena's contracts are not natively on Salana today which means you cannot mint and uh redeem and that you know can create risk or make uh certain people uncomfortable and kind of reduces the way that you think about a particular stable coin. So on Salana, Jupiter is going to be building the contracts in collaboration with Athena, of course, but we know Salana, so we're going to be building the contracts. Uh Athena is going to be managing all the operations around it. They're also going to be great design partners to let us know what works, what doesn't. They're working helping us work with Anchorage and many other great partners to ensure integration across major custodians so people have access to it. Uh and they'll be, you know, also great u kind of

partners on the collateral side. To start, Jupusd will be fully backed by USDB, which is basically a tokenized uh treasury product. Uh and then over time we're going to increase the balance to also have USDE which is their delta neutral uh stable coin that most people know. It's the third biggest stable coin in crypto. Uh and the reason we want to be able to play with those numbers is to kind of generate more outsiz yield especially if we can find creative ways uh to kind of distribute that yield to partners, stakeholders, and uh anyone else that needs it. So our job is building the contracts, figuring out the distribution and the product integrations. Their jobs are bringing best-in-class expertise around stable coin and managing the day-to-day operations. Uh, and by the way, the operations is no small feat. I should point out as well. You have to do

constant you have to defend pegs. You have to ensure that the mint and redeem and the secondary windows are working at all times and uh, you know, there's there's quite a bit of stuff under the hood. >> Relay low fees, lightning speed, and the power of multi-chain at your fingertips. Instant multi-chain payments. Choose any token on any chain. 75 plus network supported, more than 5 million users, 8 billion plus volume processed, 70 million plus transactions, fast, reliable everywhere. Start swapping today only on Relay.

>> The wait is over. The Talis test net is live. Be part of the revolution. Join now at testnet.talis.network. >> Got it. And and I think I saw in the announcement this is going to roll out sometime in Q4 and that's because you guys are going to build these uh preliminary contracts on Solana that uh uh be you know make make this stable coin available. Um so all the minting and redeeming is still going to take place on Athena's side but you guys are going to build the contracts to make sure that uh we can mint and redeem on Salana. Is that is that the right setup?

>> Yeah so the mint and redeem will be for Jupusd on Salana itself. Uh they'll be based on Athena's contracts of course because we're using Cathina Athena collateral as the underlying uh but they'll be you know our contracts for GPSD. So GWSD will be natively mintable and redeemable right there on Salana. >> Got it. Okay. Um and when it comes to yield I think this is what a lot of the a lot of the users are looking for. Um you know we we've got this this pool of treasury collateral that that's sitting there. Uh these treasuries are obviously earning yield. What's the process to ultimately pass that over to users? Is it regulatory available now? Uh, you know, is there intermediaries that are kind of taking a cut of this yield? Can

can you just describe the process as we ultimately, you know, we we get the money printer printing money on these yield on these treasuries, but then how does that end up flowing into uh users? >> Yeah, you know, there's a there are a few different people that along the way will take very small chunks of the yield. Uh, I would say and here I'm talking like single bips uh typically, right? So uh typically whoever is managing that primary mint redeem window or your primary custodian might take a little bit uh you know bidd and securitize and those guys who actually create the tokenized treasury product that underlies it all they might take a very small piece uh but the vast majority will flow to us and Athena and we have our own kind of private commercial arrangement on that side. In terms of kind of how it goes out to

others the genius regulation that passed in America recently said you cannot be a genius compliant stable coin if you are distributing yield directly to users. Uh, and so I think on our end, it'll probably look a little bit different. In the JLP pool, for example, it uh makes sense for us to just like add in more money to that pool's rewards and to boost the native APY. I mean, right now, I think it's like 45% or something like that. At other times, it's down to 15%. It kind of varies, but it'll be kind of a consistent boost on that yield. Uh, and then there's other ways, right? We can take that revenue and perhaps do giveaway programs, trading competitions, uh, rewards for stakers. All these kinds of things are on the table. We haven't finalized any of them just yet. Uh but yeah, there's a bunch of different ways

in which you can make sure that everyone is able to kind of uh enjoy the upside of that yield. >> Beautiful. Um yeah, I think uh this is an incredible innovation because you're also going to be bringing a lot of the products uh the structured products like the Bidd uh from Black Rockck Securitize that are currently underpinning Athena's stable coin and help helping to collateralize this this industry. We're going to be bringing that over to Salana. Is there network effects that are going to kind of proliferate outwards from here? Obviously, there's minting redeeming that's going to be taking place if he is helping with that.

It's going to be taking place on Jupiter, but you know, the stable coins could ultimately make their way out of Jupiter and into the the rest of the Solana world, right? >> Like what what would that look like and how can you continue to bring value acrruel back to Jupiter even as this Jupusd token ends up becoming composable with the rest of the Salana DeFi ecosystem? Yeah, you know, as uh as my friend Lily uh who's president of the Slana Foundation, likes to say, a good asset should be everywhere, right? Like that is what makes it a good asset. It has to be available and used by as broad a base of people as possible. And certainly what we hope for GPSUSD. So we'd love to collaborate with all other Salana projects on making sure that GPUsd is available uh within within them whether it's as a collateral asset, a borrowable

asset, as a trading pair, or whatever else it might be. Uh from a yield perspective, it doesn't actually change. So much in the same way that Circle collects that yield on USDC no matter where it lives, JWUSD will do the same. So that yield will still ultimately be coming to our entities and we'll have different ways to distribute it. Uh and you know there's a bunch of interesting ideas and we've seen other like fun experiments for teams who might share yield with companies who hold that particular stable coin on their balance sheet as an incentivization to like you know hold their particular stable and increase TVL. uh it might be that we can use some of that deal to produce more um kind of win-win situations with other partners again maybe crossplatform trading things or with memecoin communities or whoever else it might be uh but the goal is certainly to have it

be diffuse and everywhere I would say we mostly think about this in terms of stages though right so the first stage is hey let's just get it to really work in our product suite let's make sure it's the stable coin of choice in our lending product in our uh perpetuals product in our wallet products while all other stable coins are still available ultimately going back to that idea idea of you know DeFi is not like Apple you don't want to constrict user choice right so USDC everything else is still going to be there uh for sure but what are the ways that we can nudge people to like starting to use it and then I think once we kind of figure out that first stage once we have a little bit of lindiness built into the stable coin then I think we'll start to think about

more aggressive growth and other broader plans so our plan is not to try to you know dethrone USDC on day one by any means >> okay that makes sense uh but it is it is gradual uh and and like you said we've, you know, now seen a couple of these Athena powered stable coin launches. Uh we've seen how they can grow and how they can develop and so we've got a little bit more of an understanding about how we can how we can scale these stable coins uh overall. Um I just want to quickly recap some of the things that you've mentioned. It's in terms of the integrations of the stable coin across Jupiter's products, collateral on purp and mobile, uh, and integration into new products that you guys are building.

There's a little piece here, and I'm just reading off of Jupiter's announcement. Um, it says a stable coin for everything Jupiter, including Jup holders. This feels like maybe you're pointing or alluding to something. What could Jupusd do for JUP holders? You know, I think it could do a few different things. Um, at the risk of uh kind of front running our own announcement, I won't be super specific here, but I will say like in the at the broadest level, Jupiter has a 50% Jupit accumulation plan where 50% of our revenues from Jupiter go to programmatic open market purchases of Jup via this thing called the litter box trust. So, more revenues is good for Jupiter holders.

>> Every every cat herder needs a litter box. >> That's right. It's I swear to God the we made the decision on what to call it uh or not us but like with our partners what to like name it a few uh minutes before we actually announced it and like where does a cat keep his It's in the litterbot address, right? So uh that's actually how that uh and now it has like 125 million Jup tokens or something in it. Uh it's like little jokes that kind of get us through the day. Anyway, so you know it's great from dup holders from that perspective. It's great from an increasing the brand trust uh especially when you talk to stratfi and traditional capital allocators. You know, stable coins is a narrative they understand. It's a narrative that helps build trust. And if you have a large

stable coin, that is great. And especially if we can get it up over a billion dollars, right? Because Jupiter has three tokens over a billion right now. This would be our fourth. Uh and so that's really, you know, an exciting kind of way to ensure that awareness continues to grow and adoption grows of the rest of the product suite. And then finally, you can imagine that there are certain perks that we might be able to offer uh JUP holders and Jupakers uh somewhat uniquely that other stable coins cannot, right? because we have this kind of vibrant ecosystem of stakeholders that we might want to reward in different ways. >> Very cool. Could you just zooming out a little bit from the stable coin in particular, you know, for for people that are just learning about Jupiter's ecosystem and and kind of understanding the nuances, you know, these three three

tokens, four tokens, uh, soon, you know, over a billion dollar market cap. Can you just describe how these tokens interact, how they work together to ultimately form this this Jupyter universe? >> Absolutely. Yeah. So, I I call it the holy trinity right now. I'll have to come up with whatever a foursided >> foursided trinity. >> Yeah, the holy square maybe is where we go afterwards. But like um we have not three stable coins but three tokens, right? So we have JUP which is the the kind of primary token that's the the kind of governance and ownership token of the Jupiter protocol that receives 50% of the revenues that I mentioned earlier. Uh that market cap I don't know today but it's you know something in the $ 1.4 billion range. Uh we have a second token which is JLP which is our per uh liquidity provider token. that one is at

about 2.1 billion. And then we have Jup Soul which is the highest yielding Salana LST and that's at about 1.1 billion or so. They all interact uh kind of in productive ways I would say. So Jup Soul not only does it give great yield to the users because we don't make any money on it but uh it actually the soul goes to our validator. We have the second biggest validator on Salana is run by Jupiter. And that's really important because on Salana there's something called stake weighted QoS which basically means the more stake you have on your validator the more efficiently and effectively you can land transactions.

>> And on Salana that really matters because it's very fast and there's a lot of demand for block space and so on and so forth. And so Jup Soul being so large actually makes the rest of the products better because we have a better we have a competitive advantage in landing transactions that other people cannot match. JLP feeds in because it's uh you know it by having such deep liquidity on JLP the purpose platform can offer massive size uh with guaranteed liquidity right every trade that you open on Jupiter you will be able to close and that's not true for other purpose platforms right especially if they're orderbook based especially if you're doing it size and especially if you're doing it during volatile times so that draws more people in as well uh and then of course Jup itself is the thing that kind of cruise value uh across the

ecosystem and the better juke does the more people know about Jup soul the more people that know about JL P and vice versa. So in that way they all kind of support each other across the product stack. >> Nice. Just looking at JLP now. This thing basically looks like the S&P. It's up and to the right. Not financial advice. >> I I mean listen I don't give financial advice. I'm not trying to do that. But I will say that like JLP is the most beloved token on Salana. If people are watching this have not seen it yet. Um I have you know the alpha is the number one most popular trade from liquid funds this past uh over the past year on Salana has been buying JLP and then hedging the underlying. So you have a delta neutral position and JLP I don't know what the number is you can tell me.

I think it's like 40 or 50% APY right now. It's been as low as like 14 15%. But you get 15% risk-f free uh if you run that trade. So people really love it at size. I will say uh if you go and multiply JP right now in Jupyter lend you get like 220% APY I think right now something like that. uh which is pretty incredible. So it is a uh it is a real powerhouse of a token. It's in my mind almost like the platonic ideal of what a token should be. Really yield inherent yield. It gives you diversified exposure. You know, it's very liquid so you can get in and out of it. I don't I don't mean to be too much of a sales guy. I just genuinely love jail.

>> No, it's it's the philosophy background that's coming out. This plonic ideal of a token. >> There you go. Yeah. I I came to at least a few classes in college, I guess. Um, yeah, I I it makes a ton of sense. Is there a benefit that by running stable the the JUPUSD stable coin and deploying this and getting this to scale, will it help this trade, this this looping strategy that you're describing um JLP? >> Absolutely. Yeah. So, it'll help because it'll add in additional yield native. So, most of the yield in JLP comes from Per trading fees. 75% of all PES trading fees, and again, we're the largest uh per product on Salana, they go to JLP holders. 25% comes back to to the

Jupyter protocol. But in addition, we actually have a JLP loans product. So if you have JLP, you can borrow USDC against it at really competitive rates with like a 95% uh liquidation threshold or something like that. And uh we actually native stake a bunch of the soul that's in the JLP pool that's unutilized by traders to our validator that again generates extra yield. If we replace USDC with Jupusd inside of JLP, it'll only further increase the yield. Now, the exact percentages and how that breakdown is going to happen. We haven't figured out yet with the JLP community. So, there's still conversations to be had there. Uh, but that would be one additional way to ensure that hey, even if trading volume goes down, you still have loans uh providing lending um a yield to it. You have native stake providing yield to it, and now you have

a stable coin yield uh coming in as well from treasuries. So, that's the way that we kind of ensure that JLP remains robust. And again, the more robust it is, the more perpetrating happens because it's deeper guaranteed liquidity. >> Very cool. Very cool. Um, Cash Man, it's been it's been so much fun. We've got there's a couple more things I think our team's got teed up uh in the back and it has to do with this announcement video where you made an an impressive debut as an actor. Um, >> let's see. Let's see if the JSD announced a video.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Can we play this? I think I think our has it ready. Uh, gosh, I'm sure you've seen this. If you look if you click on the output in the bottom left, you should be able to I think we're we're land here in just a moment. >> Uh like it's it's actually crazy, you know? It's like biggest Salana DeFi protocol, fastest growing stable coin, best of both worlds coming together. Like I swear to God, dude, DeFi up only from here. >> I swear to God, DeFi up only. >> I'm ready to go. >> Yeah, I will.

>> I'm found at the moment. sort of Athena's balance within the market is roughly, >> you know, me and Guy got together at 8 a.m. during Tokyo 249 cuz we both had like very busy days afterwards. The video was unscripted. We just kind of like rocked up uh had some coffee and then just sort of this is so I'm talking to guy off camera here basically and then I just kind of freestyled on the other end of it. are a critical component of that. We couldn't ask for a better partner than Athena in this, right? They've been blame. This is just Hollywood's looking at this right now for your next role.

>> This is too top tier. >> Can I tell you actually it's a real problem? I'm flying to Bombay on Friday night, which will be my first like onstage shoot with like, you know, a full cast. So, if you like the Cash D acting career, stay tuned to Twitter. You'll see you'll see more of that soon. There you go. >> Let's go cash. I think around 28 to 25 trillion stakeh fun to make. Shout out to the boys at Goatfish who put this together for us as well. Goatish in the world. >> That's a baller name right there. >> Exciting to us. >> Yeah. And what's it like been working with Guy? I mean obviously just a savage killer. I mean when it comes to stable coins third largest stable coin working together now. What what's that experience been like?

>> It's also about making >> I think that you know before I I only have known guy since we started working together. So I've known for whatever a month or so >> before that I you know admired him I think like anybody in crypto admires Athena is like one of the best executing products in the space and one of the best executing teams in the space and I found him like as we worked together to be an exceptionally clear thinker a great partner you know there there during the negotiation phases there were you know a number of sticking points like you know we both have different kind of objectives that we wanted to try to meet in the middle and I found him to be like very understanding and uh kind of open about what his aims were and kind of what was needed on our end and

just like the way that uh he and the rest of the team does business, you know, Nick and Jane and everybody else there too. >> Yeah, absolutely. Um, very very cool, man. I >> I will say I don't like standing next to him, though, because he's like a very, you know, beefy, jacked guy. I I I assume he's like one of those like 5 a.m. ice bath kind of guys and like, you know, I'm I'm not. Uh, so like when we were next to each other like for the recording, I was like, I just keep him in a different frame than me. I don't want to, you know, my vanity cannot take it, >> man. Oh, that's so funny. I I I love it. Cash, this has been an absolute pleasure, man. I I you know, feel free to wrap us up. Uh we do have if you got

another minute. We've got a question from the audience here. >> Uh let's see how much alpha we can share. Okay, this guy new type. Uh hit us up in the chat. He said, could Jupiter take a page from Binance Alpha? Uh example here. I stake Jup and can get airdrop some of the most successful meme coins that get launched on Salana. Um, I will say that a we already have some of that. So, Jup Stakers got access to the Huma pre-sale, which by the time it opened up was something like a 5x uh because they got in at a $75 million valuation, FDV. So, that worked out great for them. Wrecked, uh, which is a brand coin. People might know, people got a airdrop if you were a Jeep staker.

And then most importantly, the Meteora TG is happening tomorrow. Meteora being the top AMM on Salana. Uh, 3% of the total supply of MET is going to juke stakers. So, if you're a drip taker, you will be rewarded. But I'll give this a little bit of alpha. ICOs are very hot right now. We've been working for months on an ICO platform that's going to launch in November. Uh, and the first launch is going to be coming up, I think, in mid November roughly. Uh, and I think Jupakers will be very excited about it. Uh, and so as we have more ICOs, I think Jup Stakers will continue to be uh, excited about uh, what we're trying to do.

>> Wow, guys. Jup stakers are winning. If you're not if you're not staking your Jup right now, I don't know what you're doing. you should probably hop on that. Uh uh it might might already be too late, but maybe cash can squeeze you in. >> Yeah, I think you have some time before the November one. I think we'll we'll take a snapshot a little bit closer to the actual date. >> Okay, there you go, guys. If you're not already staking Jup. Uh we know how much the last ICO platform got acquired for. Uh this this one coming up is going to be just as exciting. And so yeah, there's new type in the chat. Dang, I need to stake Jup. Come on, man. Let's go. Stake your shoe. Shout out new type.

There you go. Draw the alpha out of cash. Wow. Cash, you're our you're the chat of the day. Drop an alpha. Everyone comes on and they're like, "Oh, I don't want to run the announcement. I you know, I don't want to drop too much. I don't want to say too much." Cash comes on, drops bombs. There you tube. No doubt. >> My pleasure, man. It's the benefit of being up for 14 straight hours working, I guess, is maybe my PR filter is not uh what it would have been in the morning, but uh >> absolutely not. This is this is the the the result of shipping and uh and testing and prod as we do in this industry. Cash man, thank you so much.

Absolute pleasure. Uh best of luck. Meteora uh TGE tomorrow uh new ICO platform in November and uh Jupusd launching Q4 in collaboration with Athena. Keep up the great work, man. It's absolutely cool to see the progress. >> Thanks, buddy. Likewise. It's been great to see the rollup uh continue to grow. >> Appreciate it, man. We'll have it on on again soon. See you next time, please. anytime. >> Love it.