How the Milk Road PRO team invests when markets make no sense

Transcript

GM, good morning. Welcome to the Milk Road Show, the daily crypto show where the market's a mess, the group text is silent, and my back hurts for no reason. I'm your host, Jay Hamilton. It's Saturday, April the 12th, and the boys are back in town. I'm talking about the Milk Road Pro boys, Kyle, Adrian, and Martin. Three guys who uh sit at their computer and their phone all day and read and learn about crypto. These guys look at more charts and more deep crypto analysis than anybody I know. Now, every week we meet up and we hang out and we have a bit of a research meeting where we just jam out on whatever topics we think are most important right now. And uh yeah, this week uh there was a lot

there's a lot right now. No shortage of stuff to dive into. Uh now remember our the working thesis right now is we are in for more short-term pain but we're still in a bull cycle. Structurally we are still in a bull cycle. This right now this is still just a pullback. There is no proof yet that we're into a bear. And so when you work from that when you operate from that lens uh we see this as a buying opportunity. Uh so there's two questions that come up and those are the two main questions that we discussed in today's episode which is um how do you think through buying buying a dip especially one that's very unpredictable like this dip like have we bottomed perhaps there's many many points you go

back to listen to Wednesday's episode with Ben Cohen many points that would say yeah we have bottomed and we're past uh or we could be in for more pain. It it really comes down to um liquidity and how how quickly does QT end. Do we see lower interest rates from the Fed and Trump's Trump pausing tariffs? Obviously, it helps a lot. So, how do you think about buying a dip? What are what are the strategies when you have this like prolonged no end in sight dip, but you still remain bullish? So, you want if you have some buying opportunities, you want to take advantage of that. And then the second question is what tokens do you buy? What's going to outperform when you're buying a dip? And so those are the two main questions of today's episode. We also dive into uh two of our

favorite topics right now which we keep on discussing as we develop our thesis for the rest of this cycle when the bull as we believe will come back. Um, one is the growing narrative around uh investing in projects that have strong fundamentals and which projects those are and where do you find those projects and the other is the fat app thesis just unavoidable to talk about uh and looking at these charts that we're we're writing a report about this right now around how how app revenue really is growing at a rate that you just can't not pay attention to it anymore. need to be looking at app revenue versus blockchain revenue because app revenue is surpassing blockchain revenue and the the market al is still not allocated in

that way. The market still much more favors uh infrastructure and L1's. Uh so just a banger of a show today everybody. You're really going to enjoy it. Hope you guys are having a wicked awesome Saturday. Smash that like button. Give us a follow wherever you are. Much appreciated. Today's episode is brought to you by Moonay. Trade crypto fee free fast and on your terms. It's also brought to you by Coin Shift powering top crypto treasuries with their yield bearing stable coin CSUSDL. Without further ado, let's hear from the Milk Road Pro team. GM, what's up everybody? Back to another pro research meeting. We are now protariff researchers, so that's all we ever do. We don't have any crypto stuff anymore. I'm just kidding. Uh we actually I know the rest of crypto Twitter was studying tariffs. We were

still studying crypto. So, we're going to talk crypto today, of course. Uh so, don't worry. Um, but what we're going to talk about actually is um, well, we're going to talk about a bunch of things. We'll talk about buying dips. What should you think about when you're actually buying a dip? What kind of strategies are there? Uh, kind of help give some guidance there. We're recording this on Tuesday. It comes out Saturday. Hopefully, there's still a dip for everyone to buy come Saturday. So, you can use this uh, use this wisdom. Although, pro members, you get this today. So, you get this a week in advance. Uh, so if you're not pro, I don't know what you're doing. Um but also uh we added allocations or we added capital to the pro portfolio 100k worth and so we are going to be allocating or have already been allocating and we um

are sort of guiding our pro members on how to do that. So if you're not yet pro, go check that out so you can watch us actually allocate to uh to this live. Um we've already done that. So we'll talk a little bit about that. Although we're not going to talk about what we've allocated to, but we will discuss how to look at which tokens you might want to allocate to during times like this when you have pretty crazy big pullbacks. Uh especially when you have big growth scares like this. Um and then we'll talk about some of the fundamental valuation stuff. Um and yeah, should be a good time. What do you guys think? Sound like a fun episode or what? Sounds good. Always always a fun time. Yeah, these four guys, these three guys. Let's go.

All right, let me just share a screen here. I just want to walk us through I mean I'm sure everyone has seen what's going on in the markets lately. Uh but obviously we have some big dips going on. And again if this is you know by Saturday if this has changed like who cares? It still is what it is. The NASDAQ is down. Let's see. Went down 25%. It's back up a little bit. So we're down 20% which is fine. My lord Adrian's face says it all. Bitcoin went down. Let's just see here. A max 32%. [ __ ] Not bad, eh? Uh, currently sitting at 27%. Stronger than the NASDAQ, friends. That's actually unreal. ETH soul completely wrecked. I won't even show those charts because

that's just looks terrible on everything. Um, anyway, in this world, let's just talk about everyone's kind of thoughts on like if you had extra cash, uh, how or what did you do? Uh, and what is your kind of your strategy here? One nice thing is um my girlfriend actually had some extra cash that was just sitting there and she was ready to allocate and um and I told her a few weeks ago I was like let's just hold off on it. We'll just like you know we'll see uh what what happens. This is before we even knew any of this was going to happen. And all a sudden everything crashed. I was like oh my god it's time to buy the [ __ ] dip. Let's go. And so although I didn't have a whole bunch of extra cash uh she did. So I got to do

this um for reals but with her money which was a lot of fun. And so I'll talk about it in my strategies, but sounds very dangerous, man. With my girlfriend's money buddy. It's so much fun to use her money. It is no pain. No pain to the edge. Well, we bought before the crash of like of was it Sunday night when everything was falling apart and I'm sitting there on Twitter like, "Holy [ __ ] things are getting real bad." She's like, "I just bought." Like it's like she's tripping out thinking that like, you know, it's going to go to zero. I'm like, "It's not going to zero. Just chill. You're good. We're going to just buy more cuz we didn't we didn't allocate a bunch." Anyway, I'll get into that in a second. You have to always buy on Sunday. It's it always crash the

crypto always down on Sundays. You should always buy on Sunday's night. Okay, but let's let's start. We see, you know, obviously Thursday, Friday, Sunday night, Monday, red, red, red. Um, what do you guys do? What's your sort of thinking here? Were you buying on Thursday? Were you buying on Friday? Were you just waiting for it all to be over? Like, what are your guys' thoughts when you have moments like I don't know if you want me to start if you guys want to start off. Yeah, when the sentiment is the worst, when everyone is crying, it's typically a good time to buy some. And I, for example, like to hold some stables, like to hold some cash. I always have some stink bits basically. So, at um interesting uh price levels like BTC for example, 72K. Um I just set these limit

orders on exchanges or also on a decentralized exchange like a cow swap and whenever it gets hit I'm quite happy about it and other than that DCA is basically the way. So with a dollar cost averaging with um just a monthly weekly um plan you can't go wrong typically in these types. So, you just always have um like limit buys uh just in case markets come back at just like some technical levels kind of thing or do you do that when you're like, "Okay, looks like we're going to pull back." Exactly. But just for just for Bitcoin. Yeah. Right.

Right. What about you guys? Well, I w I wish I have some stable coins left, but it's not the case. I can do some I can find some um stable coins, but not much, unfortunately. So, um, yeah, and at that at this point, I would be buying like maybe just some really high convictions and then do you how do you strategize that? Well, pro not advance like I have no idea where we are going to be in one month or three months. So, I I don't want to like time the market and and kind of consider that we are bottoming

right now. Um, I would buy something now and then maybe something in one month or three months depending on how the markets is going to react and if there is still, you know, uncertainty, people are still panicking, whatever. I'm going to monitor what's going on in in stocks and it's probably the best proxy to see what's going to happen and if investors are coming back or not, right? And then crypto is more dynamic, more more more faster play obviously, but uh stocks are the main driver for me.

Yeah, I So I I'll talk two scenarios. So one, I dollar cost average every month. I hadn't been doing that. I forget. I wrote a pro report about it, but I hadn't been doing it since like November, I think it was after we had that big run. I was like, "Okay, I'm not buying anymore. This doesn't really make sense." We kind of called a pullback. Um, now obviously at prices today it's like, okay, this makes sense to be buying. We're not we're nowhere near like we were back in November, December. So I think in February it was I actually started buying again. Uh, and then again in March. Now it was just like paycheck comes in, take a some of that, throw it into, you know, um, my investment account uh, and then buy. So that's all I was kind of doing there. It was more

just though when I had it, right? right? Like I didn't have a bunch of stables set aside, so I couldn't time things or whatever. It was just like when I would get paid, I just go and toss it in. Um, so not really strategy there, just just dollar cost average when it made sense to dollar cost average. On on my girlfriend's side though, where she had just a whole bunch of capital that was already in her investing account just sitting there. I was like, "Oh, this is freaking perfect." Um, this is where you can be a little bit more strategic. So, um, let's just throw like a an easy number of 100K. Okay, let's let's just put that. That's actually what we added to the pro portfolio. So, similar idea here, but let's just say that was the number. Um, basically all I do here is

as we have these big scares, like you know how on Thursday, I think the NASDAQ went down like five or 6% and everyone's like, "Holy shit." And then Friday it's like five six% and everyone's like once you hear people saying the world is ending, the market's done, like you know, you just have the worst sentiment ever, you just we just dollar cost average. So, I was like, "Okay, take 20% and buy it on Thursday." Friday was another bad one. we took 20% and we bought again. Uh Monday, same thing. It's it's bad. 20% buy again and then hold off, right? So, we just kept kind of adding on each day that it was bad. On a green day, on a good day, like today, we've just said, "Okay, let's wait and see what happens here." And are we at a bottom? Are we not? Don't know.

Don't really care. Really, all you're trying to do is in these moments, yes, you're trying to sort of catch a falling knife, but we're not we're not really doing that because we're not putting 100% in, right? I'm not saying, hey, I think this is the bottom and so I'm I'm allocating. That's why I'm sort of dollar cost averaging, but not like a monthly thing. It's like, okay, every time the market pukes, you just buy. And maybe it's the bottom, maybe it's not, but it doesn't really matter. Maybe there's going to be a point where we have like sometimes you have these huge, like COVID, for example, where you go down like 50% in a day. You're like, okay, that's probably the bottom. Like, we're probably not going to get any worse than that. Then you might want to just go all in on that one shot. But

these have been kind of these like daily grind downs. And I know 5% is not really a grind in the NASDAQ for example. Those are pretty bad, but um kind of makes sense. And then on Bitcoin side, you could think of like Sunday night was a pretty big we had been calling and said, "Hey, I think we're probably going to get down to like this the low 70,000 70 75,000. We hadn't hit that." Um and Bitcoin finally hit that. Was it like Monday morning or Sunday night, whatever it was. Those are your moments like, "Okay, this kind of makes sense. You might want to you want to allocate there." Again, you're not backing up a truck and going 100%. Um, and then I think like in her case, she still has a bunch of cash. Like maybe 50% of it I think is still in cash or close to. Um,

and so again, we're just going to keep waiting and you know, maybe we go up from here and then we have some mini pullbacks and she buys. Then we'll kind of just have to see what goes on. But she's just kind of like lowering her cost basis, right, each time. Uh, and so that's really my strategy. Not trying to catch a falling knife, not trying to catch the the exact bottom. just like buy as it's going down and then it's probably going to start going up and you're kind of buying there too on on pullback on red days. Um which I know is hard. People see the green today and everyone's like, "Oh [ __ ] I should go buy, right?" But it's just like if you can just flip that mindset, which isn't isn't the easiest thing in the world to do, but if you can just do that, then

you're just, you know, you're getting good bids. Are you going to catch the very bottom? No. But it's like who cares, right? Um she was going to dollar cost average over months anyway, but now we're like, look, in four months, five months from now, are we going to be lower than today? Like probably not. there's a very small chance and so you might as well just be, you know, adding every time we take a dump. So, um, that's that's really the strategy there. Uh, but there's no expectation of like, okay, it's going to be a V-shaped recovery and this is going to be up x% in by next week, you know? It's just like trying to catch at at at good prices. Um, that's really it. I don't know if you guys have any other thoughts or strategies on it here. Mine is pretty simple, right? Pretty simple right now.

I have a lot of conviction in Bitcoin currently. Like that's my my really solid conviction. I really come back to like where I have conviction in moments like this. I think you've said it before, Kai, and others on the show have. Don't try to become a geopolitical trading expert in moments like this. Like so many people make that mistake. Um I've I've made that mistake before in other ways. You know, try to become a memecoin trading expert or an NFT trading expert or whatever the narrative of the moment is. AI coin, you know, stick to your lane and I, you know, lean into your convictions. Uh, and I have a lot of conviction. My my my limit order right now under 78, I feel really good.

So, every time Bitcoin dips under 78, I grab a little bit. I don't have a ton of cash on the side, I've got a little bit of cash on the side. So, I grab a little bit under 78K. And and then other than that, I just continue to once every four to eight weeks, I take a hard look at my portfolio as we go through scenarios like this. And I just, you know, think about is there anything I want to uh to move around within my portfolio? You know, anything I want to move out into some cash, maybe something I don't like so much anymore, don't have conviction. This is dragging on longer than I thought it would. I'm not sure if that'll bounce back. Maybe some fundamentals have changed. But the thing is for most of all of us in here like on the fundamental side nothing's really

changed for most of my assets and most of my tokens. So um yeah that's a keep it simple. One of the piece of advice that I heard I forget it was years ago was like never try to trade geopolitical events because you have no edge and no one has an edge. Like what's happening right now like I know there's people that like understand tariffs more than others but the thing is it's not really about the tariffs. It's about what is the decisions that's going to be made about the tariffs and no one knows. These are all closed door conversations. You don't have an edge here. You might have an edge in meme cocoins. It's okay if you want to go and like trade meme coins. You might have an edge because you're in all the groups and you like kind of see what's coming out, what's

next, whatever. But like nobody except for Trump uh and maybe Scott Besset didn't have an edge here, right? No one does because no one knows what Trump is thinking in his mind. And like literally if he was to remove the tariffs tomorrow, we'd be back at where we were, you know, two weeks ago, back at normal levels. if the Fed decides to pivot and print a bunch of money, we're back to where we were, right? Like there's just too many factors that you actually have no idea. And so to try to like trade it and like, you know, try to think you have an edge here just doesn't make any sense. And so the best thing you can do is just sit on your hands. If you have cash, then just buy into assets that make sense, like good strong assets, and don't try to get too cute. Like this is

just a gift, right? To be this low right now is crazy for a lot of these assets. Um, and so it's just a good time to be to be buying, but don't try to like think that you have an edge on what's going to happen today and tomorrow and this and that. It's like nobody does because literally it's just controlled by one dude and we don't really know what he's thinking. And so, um, I don't know. It's like when war happens, you don't try to trade around a war. You just [ __ ] let it play out, you know? Um, because, you know, if you if you're too risk, like you have a bunch of alts, sure, sell those out, but don't try to trade it because it's there's nothing you can really do. You don't actually have an edge. Um, so I think that's This

dip is way easier to buy like CO for example because CO was just so scary. Nobody knew what was h what was about to happen. So at this time it's much easier and it's less scary in my opinion at least. Yeah, I agree with that actually. I agree very much with that everyone is now expert on tariffs and I think people it's just everyone's ego like I want to have opinion about everything but that's not necessary you know and you don't need to do that and instead if you would just focus on your niche or like your specific domain that you are good at where you have your edge just do that and like but people still they they

need to share their thoughts thoughts and feed and opinions about everything. And it's just so noisy. Especially Especially who? White men. Us. All white men. Just the overconfidence and the need to to soo our ego to know everything like I'll admit it. That's us doing it to you. That's the perfect contrarian indicator. When everyone is doing it on Twitter, just do the opposite. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. Fear and greed. Sell the buy and sell the fear and greed, right? Like look at fear right now. Well, yeah. That's the thing. That's the other thing. It's so easy in moments like this. Just look at fear and greed. Look at sentiment. And when sentiment is that bad, it's just you just buy. It doesn't matter what's going on in the world. If you go on Twitter and people are all losing their mind that stop like the markets are

crashing, you don't even have to know what people are losing their mind about. You just go and you buy. That's it. You know what I mean? And you will do well. You will you will definitely do well if you do that, you know, over time with a long enough time horizon. Yeah, I don't remember who it was recently that came on the show and they said that one of their core strategies was buying under 20 and selling above 80 on fear and greed and that was like a core strategy of theirs that simple. I was like wow that's pretty good. I just wanted to say that I would be really interested to see the results of some back tests if you would just buy under the 20 and you know you might use wicks or something like that and then if it's within the range

of 20 and 80 you do nothing you just hold and then you just you know continue getting more more more stable coins and then when it happens you buy again I think it would be such an you sell at I think you buy at below 20 and you sell above 80 that's Exactly it. Yeah, that's exactly it. It's that simple. We should back test that. That's a great Should we should we create a like a a mini portfolio that just does that and see how you just hold a token that does that for you automatically? Man, every time we run a one of these pro meetings, we come up with like new product ideas.

Hey, it would be like what would you be buying? Like an index, some sort of No, it's the fear and greed token [ __ ] But but what's the token that you're what's what are you actually holding in the end? Well, you want you want to hold you want to assign a value to fear and greed. No, no, no. So, like you would put you would hold Bitcoin like let's say we allocate or whatever whatever the assets. It could be a bucket. It doesn't really matter. Um but you're just buying at 20 selling at uh selling at 80 and it could be just Bitcoin. It could be a bunch of things. I don't know. Honestly, it could be longs and shorts. That's maybe even the better way to express it. That's interesting. That's what it should be.

The [ __ ] token are dangerous. Yeah. But I think this strategy works until it doesn't because then at some point we will see altcoin season and everything will be overbought and for a long time and that's the time when most altcoins will do I don't know 5x or something. Hey we're not trying to get the 100x here you little DJ. Yeah I know. Yeah. We're just trying to win. You don't want to Yeah. But you don't want to sell your a like once you do like 2x right when it does. No. This is just a Bitcoin strategy. This is just a Bitcoin strategy. That's it. Yeah. just a Bitcoin strategy. All right, speaking of A and things like that. Okay, we have this big pullback. We kind of talked about what sort of strategies you want to do, which is honestly there's a bunch

of options you can do, but ultimately it's just like buy when there's a lot of fear. That's kind of the best advice I think we have for you here. Uh, and just try to remain calm while doing it. What do you buy? Right, Jay? You've already mentioned Bitcoin. Bitcoin looks very strong, so we don't have to have a conversation there, but Bitcoin does obviously look really strong. It It's held up better than than the NASDAQ, which is crazy. um well not really the NASDAQ overall but like it's done a really good job um and and it looks really good here and also in the world we're entering right of uncertainty Bitcoin tends to do really well there etc. So like leaving that one aside when you look down into cryptoland what uh what do you guys look at to kind of make a decision on what

you should be buying here when everything looks like garbage. Awesome. Uh one very easy strategy if you are not a crypto analyst or if you are not yet a milkro pro member uh certainly is to check for relative strength. Uh so which tokens did actually perform? Uh for example in the last 24 hours if you look at the top 100 we have zoom like Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Doing it right now. We have something like Hideera, HAR, but also fundamentally good tokens. We for example already wrote about like Hyperlid and if they perform well in the last 24 hours that's at least something to note down. maybe like make a little

list. We have also interesting tokens in the AI segment like Bit Tensor for example. We have layer ones like up to sensui and if you look for 24 hours that's uh just one data point of course but you can also look at the last seven days and whenever you see that one of these tokens is uh several times uh in your list and you note it down again and again because it's in the 24 hours best performers. It's also in the seven days best performers. uh in 7 days for example we are not seeing anything that we just saw in the um 24 hours but we can look at uh 30 days because we are

just taking a longer time frame and checking which one is performing over different time periods and which one might be interesting longer term of course um we're also seeing nothing in the 30 days because yeah we are technically a little bit in an altcoin bull market but if you check the 60 days there's Something interesting again for example a fundamentally a good token like a maker performed very well in the last 60 days despite the bad altcoin performance. Strongest asset in the entire world. Maker literally the strongest asset entire world over the last over this global trade war the last 30 days.

Exactly. Monday's go listen to Monday's episode with Run the founder of Sky Maker. Thanks for the plug everybody. Sure thing. That was just a coincidence, but yeah, it is what it is. So, that's a very very easy strategy. You're looking at a relative strength. You want to uh see over different time periods which tokens are performing well. And if you're holding uh the top losers here over several time periods, maybe you should think about not adding to the losers or even selling the losers and getting into the winners because typically the winners continue to win and the losers unfortunately continue to lose. One thing when you look at the 24 hours, so look at a day as we're recording, it's a green day. And so you,

as Adrian said, you look at which ones have pumped over the last 24 hours. Make sure though you click on it and you look like, did this thing just go down way more than everything else over the last the 24 hours previous to that or 48 hours previous that it could just be like a rever reversion bounce. Um, so like make sure that the thing also hasn't just completely fallen off a cliff during that time. Now everything has. So again, it's relative to the rest of the market, not just looking at that one chart. Um, the one thing I look at, uh, which again goes to relative performance, I'm just going to pop my screen back up. Speaking of Maker, um, as I say, has been the strongest asset.

What's crazy about Maker is it hasn't put in a new low. It's probably the only asset like in I don't know, I don't know if it's all stocks, all crypto, but the thing has not put in a new low since since February. So, February 3rd, we had that big wipeout in crypto. Forget why it happened. Um, but anyway, everything kind of like just did terribly. Um you can see it in I don't know let's look at east chart I know they had see it's right here but since then right so this is February 3rd since then ETH has continued to go down soul I believe you have the same chart February 3rd see was here and it's just like fallen off a cliff since then even worse right so everything kind of tanked back on February 3rd um and I can't remember what it was or the reason why but since

then even and that was before we had a global trade war we had all these tariffs any of that stuff right that was like just after Trump was elected look at what maker has Maker has gone up since then. Now, it went up like crazy and came back down. It's been very volatile, don't get me wrong, but it is actually this is technically um its third uh or second higher low from previous. So, it was high a higher low here from before. So, it went all the way down to like what 800 781 then went up to 1,34 and then it it came back really really close but 146 uh and has gone up from there. So, that is like an incredibly good-looking chart where it keeps putting in these higher lows. Um, that is some serious strength and

probably I don't know that I can find another uh token in crypto that hasn't put in a lower low like that. So, that is some serious strength and that's something you want to look at. Um, and like again buying anywhere along this line here where it's kind of coming touching down um that that's huge. So, um that's one thing that I look at uh which is just on like the more technical market structure side of it. Um yeah. What do you guys think? Anything else to look at other than obviously price action is what we just discussed. What more? Martin, I imagine you have some thoughts on maybe fundamental side of things. Yes, there are buybacks. 700K is uh our buybacks every day buying Maker.

So it's obviously a huge buying pressure and that's one of the reasons why the price of Maker is doing so well. Also maker do liquidation. So when the prices are going down they need to make sure that they don't have any bad debt. And therefore sometimes they liquidate the positions the users have which are underwater and couple days ago they just liquidated some some big position and it brought them 10 million just for that liquidation event. revenue in revenue.

Yeah. So it's like you know like this and you are plus 10 mil and if it's um project that is doing th these buybacks it's valued around 1 billion and it's just so many things positive going that way and if you are also trying to understand when where maker is heading and what their new AI features and everything's going on it's super interesting and I think some people are paying attention And so those are not just buybacks, but maybe there are some, you know, buyers because of the the prices and it's kind of relatively cheap right now. Let's be honest. Everything in crypto comes with

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with institutional-grade risk management by our friends at Stakehouse Financial. Put your treasury cash to work, earning native yields and protocol rewards. Built by the team behind Coin Shift, which is trusted to manage over 1 billion in business treasuries on chain, including a Gitcoin, and hundreds of leading institutions. See why CSUSDL is gaining traction at milkroad.com/coinshift. And for people that say that crypto doesn't isn't valued based off of fundamentals, watch this chart right here. Okay, so you can see right now I have on December 10th, okay, we have kind of a top and this is the we're looking at net revenue here for for Maker uh or Sky, sorry, and it goes all the way down right into uh

early February. It just tanks their their net revenue. Then it skyrockets up by the end of February and then goes down and now back up. Okay, and we're kind of like working our way back up. Look at the price action here. Here's December all the way down and then it skyrockets up, comes down, and now it's kind of grinding upwards. Exactly like this net revenue chart. It's literally falling to a T, which is insane. Now, part of that is because of analysis, right? You're looking at like kind of PE ratios, etc. Part of that is buybacks, right? Now, buybacks, I think, started in February, maybe it was. Um, and uh and so obviously the revenue now, more revenue they have, the more buybacks they'll do. Um, I don't know if they're in that if they're doing it that yet. I think it might just be a set amount, but

eventually that's how it'll work. And so I think um yeah, I mean I think revenue really does matter, especially when we're kind of like um you know in a in a world where markets are getting absolutely crushed, people are going to look for more safe havens, things that actually are you know have real utility, are generating real value uh and ultimately buying that back. And so I think that's why Maker has done uh so well. And I think as long as we see this revenue chart remain or go up um then I think maker will continue to go up even if we don't go into a world of like um animal spirits bull market again right like right now it's following revenue what will happen is if we go into a world where everyone like wants to go risk on and we speculate it'll go much

higher than what the revenue is right it'll start to outpace the revenue um when we get into a world of more animal spirits but we don't need that world because as long as it can just keep generating more revenue if more people want to use stable coins which we're seeing stable coins continue to grow even during this pullback, um then it has potential to just keep growing its revenue, which means its price should actually just continue to go up, assuming that's what it's following. Um you had another one you were looking at, uh Martin, where there's a chart of um price following revenue. Do you want to pop that up too? I think it was with cow. It's actually pretty much the same story. And people are still wishing for the tokens prices to go up, but some tokens are really correlating with their fundamentals or revenues. So this is cow

protocol which is one of our f favorite protocols and you can see the the revenues and the prices of tokens how it correlates. So it's just adding more credibility to this thesis that it relates to fundamentals after all. it's not just all hype and speculation and yeah that that was actually our teases since day one. So um yeah you know as I look at this though you also kind of wonder the the revenue because this is a DEX the revenue of a DEX is correlated to the bullishness or bearishness of the market right because the more bullish the market is the more people speculate the more people trade and thus cow gets

used more and its revenue goes up. So, is the price correlated to the revenue or is the price correlated to the sentiment of the market? Uh, because they're all kind of one and the same. At least for dexes. This isn't true of everything obviously. Although in DeFi, it is true of most things I would say except for probably stable coins I'd say. Um, but like even lending, borrowing, people do more of that, you know, when animal spirits are up and we're in kind of the bull market vibes and there's more speculation and sentiment is up. Uh, and so, you know, I just wonder again if we looked at our 2080 of fear and greed, I would bet you we were 80 up here and we're below 20 here and we were probably below 20 here and so on and so forth. Um, so what are

we really correlating with? I'm not sure. Yes, but like you need you have no idea how the price is going to be affected by anything, but you know what's going to affect revenues and that's volumes. And if you you can assume that the volumes are going to increase because of the price because of the market sentiment and that's why you you can be bullish on this tokens right the other thing you can look at is like the thing I think about with crypto is so volumes can go up because you know we get either bullish right and so more people are trading more the price goes up etc.

Also, volumes can go up because there's just more assets that are tradable on these these protocols. And I think that's the the other thing you can think about is like when tokenized stocks become they they move on chain, right? There's now more assets, which means the volumes, let's say prices don't move, but all of a sudden now Tesla and Coin and the NASDAQ and Apple and and whatever, Nvidia all move on chain and again you can trade that for free using cow swap. Um well all of a sudden the volumes of cow swap just like the floor of the volumes just continue to rise.

It's not these cra like we're used to these crazy cyclical movements of volumes in crypto but I think now as more assets real world assets stable coins stocks all commodities all start to move on chain the floor of unis swap cow etc goes up and then of course when animal spirits picks up you have these huge jumps like we just saw here in in January of this chart again that was when when everyone was was buying and trading and whatever um and so I think um there's sort of two avenues you can look at of how the volumes and thus the revenues of cow or other dexes will go up. Um, and I think the long-term trend is just more more things moving on chain. And then the short term is just like bullishness or bearishness

essentially. There's kind of two ways to to look at it. I guess there's also more users that are coming on chain to actually trade this stuff. But that sort of correlates, I would say, with Animal Spirits. So I don't think you're more people aren't coming in when price goes down. That's for sure. No, definitely not. Yeah. But if if they were, that would be great. Come on, everybody come in now. Like, how do we get new, you know? Let's do a show about introducing your new friend to crypto right now. It just feels so insane. You know what I mean? I sent a text out to a bunch of my friends and family recently and I was like, there's never been a better time to buy Bitcoin. Like, everybody, like I was like, straight up, I'm not trying to time the bottom. I don't know short

term. Yes, it might go down more from here. I can't promise it won't, but I was like, longterm, I've never been so convicted in my life on it. and all I got was crickets and a bunch of people who were not interested in that take at all. Although you will have the one thing I would say is you probably do have more users coming on um over the next little while here even if price is down because again with tokenized stocks with more assets that come on you might have institutions or people who trade stocks elsewhere come over here because it's cheaper and it's faster right so it does make more sense to do it on chain versus otherwise so like you'll have more um let's say smarter or investors that are stick around during not retail let's

call it like people who stick around during bare markets or or struggling times they should start to come over as more assets get tokenized over here because you can trade everything all in one place for you know much cheaper much faster. So, like I think we'll start to see that adoption. But again, these are just it won't you won't see it in the charts because these are just so aggressive. Like you don't get these in the traditional world like where your revenue is just [ __ ] three, four, 5x, whatever this is in like one week and then all of a sudden it goes back down the next week. Like that just doesn't happen, right? So you you won't see that grind. But again, if you look at this chart, like you could draw a line from here to here and it's just like the

bottoms the you get higher lows, right? You get higher lows each time. So this is in October 2023. So if you look here at the charts, you know, each year we've actually had more adoption in crypto 2023 versus 2024 versus now 2025 that we're actually putting in kind of like what I talked with Maker higher lows, right? Each time we're putting in these are these lows of like this was probably the yen carry trade right here. This was August. This is the global trade war. This was I don't know what it was here. We hadn't started the bull market yet. And you know, you would think a global trade war would bring us to much lower than what we had back here when there wasn't a trade war, but it doesn't, right? It's because there's more users, there's more assets, there's more things to trade. Um the product is getting

better and better, and so we keep putting in in the long-term trend higher lows, right? Um which I think is that's the idea of what we're talking about here. Um and so that's what makes me very bullish on DeFi. You're seeing the adoption here. Yeah. Do you think the tokenized stock scenario will even play out this year or is it more a longterm thing for the next cycle maybe? No, I I think we see it happen. I think it gets I think tokenized stocks get launched this year. Now, is it going to be like a large percentage of volumes in crypto? Probably not. Um so, it's not really going to move the needle, I would say.

But I think we're seeing tokenized stocks come on chain uh this year. Yeah. But initially it will be us trading them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I also wonder if when that does happen is it through verified pools like what coin we talked about this was it last week or two weeks ago which what Coinbase is building it's like that might not happen on you know on um on cow here um but that that might happen on let's say unis swap or whatever you know that's built out in their their verified pool so I I don't know where that plays out but again that's more of a long-term thing but I do think I think we see tokenized stocks this year I mean technically we already have them with like backed on base etc but like they have basically no liquidity so you might as they'll just

say it doesn't exist. But um anyway, uh any other thoughts on Yes, sir. Yeah. What's your guys take on you said earlier that the users came and then everyone just left. So I guess it's the reason why we saw in the previous cycle it was a huge spike up and then everything fall down and like 90 95% people left. Now this cycle I would argue that there are already some like real use cases and the reasons why people should stick around and do not leave crypto and what do you think that the retention rate is going to be this cycle because I believe that it it it's

changing quickly. So I think it depends like the retention rate of stable coins probably really good. the retention rate of DEX volumes shitty because prices are going to go down at some point. Uh and as prices go down, people leave. We see I mean right now like our views are down, our subscribers are, you know, our subscriber growth is down. Like this is just what always happens whenever price goes down, right? And so people just leave because remember I I understand people are going to stick around because there's loans and there's stable coins and like there's there's that stuff, but like most people just do those things when you have animal spirits and markets. And so I think no matter what when the when the true bare market comes, which again I don't think we're

in right now, um I I don't it's going to be better than years than cycles before, but I don't think it's going to be like just flat. It's still going to have these huge downs. Um I think there's not much that's going to keep people around in my opinion other than I think you got to look at two separate segments of the of the market of investors. You've got to look at institutions and retail separately because we truly have never like the institutions are finally here is actually what's happened. We've been saying the institutions are coming. The institutions are coming for, you know, all last all this cycle. But they weren't really here until they really really started coming in masses when

Trump won. And and now that the regulation is coming, they're really coming in a big way. And so I and I think they they trade very differently than retail. So I think on the institution side, I think they're here. And I and I think that's a reason why I think you're seeing Bitcoin hold up so well because I think there is new buyers of Bitcoin that are buying it in a different trading strategy. But I think they're here allocating passive allocating. I don't think they're here trading on on a swap and like I don't think they're there yet or like putting in loans and a like that's coming probably even that will slow down in the bare market. Like even institutions are not going to are going to do a lot less of that. But again I think it'll just be a higher low right. Um and by a higher

low I mean a higher low compared to last bare market the end of 2022. Look at the numbers of cow unis swap volumes etc. We're going to be higher than that but will we be lower than we are today? I don't know. We'll see. We'll have to see how things go. But I would guarantee that we are higher than the lows of the last bare market which that was higher than the lows of the last bare market. Um but I agree the the other thing is there's going to be a lot more building this cycle. like last cycle the two last cycle and the cycle before that the bare markets like there was actually like 95% of traders left but also 95% of builders left I don't think we see that this time I think we continue to see people ramping up building launching and mainly

on the institutional side right launching L2s launching whatever the heck they're going to launch um I think that continues um so I hope so I I worry I worry about builders leaving for AI and we're already seeing it a a lot. There's just so much in AI right now. Like you could make a consumerf facing app and get users immediately. Like it is so fast and so easy in crypto like we're still we're still not there. You have to build you got to go to market. It's much harder, you know? I think we're institutions, right? And we're talking about financial institutions.

They're not going to There's a lot of people building for institutions. That's for sure. There is institutions, but institutions themselves. I mean like Bank of America launching a stable coin, launching an L2. Like they're going to redo their all their operations and they're going to put it on chain because it's way cheaper, right? Like what Robin Hood is currently doing. They're not leaving the bare market. They're only going to further that because they need to find more profits during the bare market. How do you do that? You move your [ __ ] on chain, right? Uh and I think every bank, every financial institution is going to do that. They're going to continue building because they know that it saves them x amount of money to be using stable coins rather than fiat, right? So the average like re let's call it a retail developer if

that's even a thing. I don't know like you know like the average person just wants to start a company that like you know is doing it on the side. I agree they're going AI route and probably going to build less in crypto uh during that bare market. But I think there's tons of companies that are going to the operational efficiency builders like the internal operations builders. You're right. I mean our interview with Vlad that's exactly what he talked about that is happening in a big way right now. It's a good point. Yeah, but since the end of last year, many AI builders know that with crypto, you can actually monetize quite fast and sell your token to a large audience. So, that's also extremely lucrative and uh that will incentivize some of them at least. Sure.

But that's your scammer entrepreneurs that are short-term side and they're gone in the bare market. See? Not only of course 95% maybe, but there are also some good ones. The only the only reason I don't know about that take is like do you Okay, so you're an AI builder. Do you also want to learn tokconomics and figure out how to launch a token? Or do you need to learn tokconomics? You just launch a token and it just works. Yeah. But like if you're a smart builder like you you want to understand it like I don't I don't know. Many used many used pump fund that was actually a problem because they didn't have a larger allocation and they had wales for example selling a lot of their tokens. So it was down only. It was a big problem initially. Yeah. Smart

builders aren't launching tokens. That's the thing, right? Look at Poly Market. They're not launching a token. Look at Pumped Up Fund. They're not launching a token right now. The the people that are actually building good [ __ ] don't launch tokens because they know it's a complete waste of everyone's time because you don't need to. You can go raise elsewhere. And especially people in AI, you know how easy it is to raise an AI. You do not need to go and launch a token and now have you want a VC? Really? Does everyone want a VC? That most of the world does. There's only a small percentage of people in this crypto world that care about that. Most people are happy to get VC capital. I agree. Especially in the beginning, like when you're in the beginning, you you you you benefit a lot from a VC. Like, yes.

Okay. You can make your your argument on the um the the financial side of the way that you're structuring your equity maybe does not favor you as much. But there is a lot to be said about the uh the expertise and the guidance that VCs, the good ones will bring to a founder who is trying to do something in a category that they've never done anything that they need relationships, they need connections, they need introductions. Like VCs can can 10x that stuff for you very quickly.

Why even differentiate? Because even with VCs, nine of 10 startups will fail. And it's the same in crypto. just to get that leg up, I think, right? Like just to to get going initially, right? To get that speed of a VC saying, "Yeah, here here's all the things you need to do. Here's the people you need to talk to. I've already got all these people in the network. I have my PR firm. I have my marketing firm that I work for on all my projects. You don't have to think about that. Here's your go to market strategy." Like a lot of that stuff, right? Right? Because you got to remember that founders uh are usually very good at one thing and very bad at running a business, right? Most founders, very few founders are actually good at the whole thing. I think there

is also not too many profitable projects in crypto in general. I think some projects include media. Then also a profit sector is data. So stuff like June or token terminal. Then maybe you have just a handful of projects like within DeFi which are already like profitable but you know we could count like maybe 20 max 30 projects that are really profitable and everyone else is just trying and trying and it's really hard and the same is true for AI startups. It's a different when you are just building a weekend project and you know you can make a um just I don't know a couple thousand that's fine but if you

are building something big then you're risking that like every new upgrade every new model from open AI or deepseek is just going to like make you bankrupt because they are just going to improve their models and capabilities and whatever you offer is now available to everyone. So it's really hard to build these days. So, I I just want to make sure that we should appreciate the builders that are putting all the efforts and trying to build. And yeah, the other thing to remember is we're going to get the market structure bill soon, right, in the next few months. And so, for next bare market, let's call it.

Um, I don't think you're going to be able to just launch a token and take a bunch and like use that to raise capital and use that to like start running your company, right? You're going to have to like I don't think it's going to be allowed anymore. Um and even now a lot of tokens when they or a lot of um teams when they launch they have to vest those tokens for years and so they actually don't get funding right um they can't do anything with those tokens other people can but not them uh and so like is that really a beneficial way like I'm not sure so um yeah I don't know problem and it it crippled innovation in Europe for example because none of the crypto startups could launch a token here right right exactly so I think it's going to be even harder to to do that to to raise

capital So, I think VCs will will continue to play a role. But anyway, um speaking of profitable tokens, um or profitable apps, let's call it. Um this isn't looking at profit, but this is one thing we've got a pro report coming out on Saturday. So, for those of you that are listening, um on Tuesday, the pro members, this is coming out uh for you later this week. For those that are listening on on the YouTube channel or on podcast, this is came out today. Uh it's available to pro members, so make sure you check that out. Um, but this is a really cool chart that Martin brought up, which is looking at the market share of app revenue versus blockchain revenue. Um, and so we've talked a lot about the fat app thesis here on on the show. Um, we've talked a little bit of

how we think, you know, maybe the market is overpricing L1's and underpricing apps. Um, and that reality is starting to show at least in the revenue side of things. So for the first time here in 2025, we are seeing app revenue um, actually outpace blockchain revenue. So that's pretty wild. So blockchain revenue is your like you know your transaction fees, me etc. And then app revenue is just like the revenue that you know apps make to use whatever product it is you're selling whether you're pumped up fund or your maker or whatever. And we are now at 60% app revenue, 40% blockchain revenue when you look at all revenue that exists um in uh in the crypto market. So this is essentially showing the fat app app

thesis coming true which is quite interesting and probably what this means is there are some overvalued blockchains out there if not many of them and there are some very undervalued uh apps in the crypto world. And so I think this is a this is to me the biggest theme of crypto in the coming years. And I think the thing that we are most dialed into right now is this one chart right here. this is going to go to 90%. In the coming year, two years, however long it's going to take, I don't know. But I think this is going to continue to accelerate at fast speeds. And that means that there's a lot of opportunity in the apps. And remember, what's interesting is of these this number here, the 60%, as Martin just said,

there's not a lot of apps actually making real revenues here. So like there's only a few apps that make up this 60%. Uh and um and they're just continuing to grow. And of course, there's going to be more apps are going to make more revenue. And so I think that means there's a lot of opportunity here because there's not a lot of people or institutions in the world looking at apps right now, right? There's there's you know most of the world not looking at crypto at all. Certain percent of the world looking and understanding and wrapping their heads around Bitcoin and then like the next step after that is just like okay Ethereum or Salana you know and that's not even getting looked at. We can see that by the ETF uh volumes and flows um for ETH there's not much which means not many people in this

world are even looking at the block space and now there's already this is being lapped by the the app revenues and now so maybe when people come in they skip the block space side of things I don't think that happens but maybe and they go straight to where the revenue is I don't know but either way it's pretty wild to see app revenue now beating like last year you would have never thought this was the case and now it's already played out and it's it's not just 50/50 now it's 6040 and and it's growing fast. So, I think this is going to be the biggest thing to watch. Um, and trying to capitalize on this moment, I think is really huge because I think there is going to be a big movement from L1's.

Uh, not necessarily saying like ETH does bad or Salana does bad from this, but there's a lot of L1s that are valued at ridiculous amounts that just make zero sense. And, and it's because there was this always this thinking that these blockchains will get so much revenue. Um, and yet we're starting to see apps already start to beat them. So I think this is quite exciting. Um I don't know if you guys have more comments on this. Do you know are crypto stocks uh included in app revenue or not? Believe no. Right, Martin? No. Right. Okay. I mean so that would that would change things even more. Right. You add in Coinbase's 7 billion from 2024 and and Robin Hood's whatever they made off of crypto uh and circle tether

blah blah blah. uh like okay then then it's 90 something% is already exists but let's not count those we'll talk just onchain app revenue is what this is looking at that's a great question and then when you look at the market market caps like later ones are like 70% or something and apps are just minority of the the remaining you know maybe like 20%. So there there must be some repricing uh I assume and also the the reason why I think it's so mispriced is because we still don't know how to value L1s because like okay Ethereum is not making a ton of fees today but how much

should it be worth like if everyone is building on top of Ethereum then and is dependent on it like what's the value of it even though they they just pay Ethereum I don't know let's say 10 millions in fees per year it doesn't matter but they are dependent on Ethereum then like what how much should assign value should we add to that fact you know so it's it's really hard and then there are things like Solana those should be valued on me uh primarily so it's a different case but for Ethereum it's a big unknown and uh I don't know what's the right Sure.

Here's um just to double click on what Martin just said at the beginning there. So right now if you if you remove Bitcoin and you remove stables from the market cap of crypto uh L1 so this is I mean I'm sure these numbers have changed since you know we've had this huge crash of the last few days but directionally this makes sense. 70% of the market cap of all of crypto is in L1's and 30% is in apps. Okay so 700 billion and 300 billion. Um, and what we're saying now though, and so if you look at 2024, close to 70% of fees were at L1's, right? So like it kind of made sense.

It's not exact, but it's it's kind of 6 billion versus 3.3 billion. It's not exactly 70. I don't know what the math is there, but it's it's somewhat direction close. But now we're saying so far in 2025, now it's only 3 months, three and a half months, whatever we're at. It's basically flipped, right? Not not fully, but 60% of revenue now goes to apps and only 40% blockchain. So should this actually be 40% and this be 60 in terms of valuations like I don't know maybe now the one thing we got to understand is a lot of this revenue comes from pumpf fun right or at least did um and they don't have a token so they're not counted here so there there are some things where revenue exists where they don't have a valuation in here so there are some nuances um but directionally again um if 2025 continues

down the route of this then it feels like this needs to shrink and this needs to grow substantially for that to make sense and especially because we just talked about I don't have that cow or I do have that this if this remains true price follows revenue then there is a big mispricing here at least so far in 2025 um because of this chart so if you put all that together there's something I think is going to happen here at some point I don't know when uh and you know we we tried to we basically saw this coming last year so when we allocated to our pro portfolio we tried to capitalize that look, we were a bit too early.

That's fine. It happens. Um, but you know, at some point that that's got to make sense because that's that's how all assets are are valued outside of crypto. And it even appears that that's how crypto assets are beginning to be valued again if we look at this. And so at some point this is going to have to that gap's going to have to get filled. Um, and so that's that's where we're keeping our eyes on. And also to go back to bring this full circle, when you're looking at where should you allocate today with this pullback, it probably makes sense you want to look for things that are generating some revenues because it appears that's the way that the space is starting to go. And as Jay said, with more institutions coming and allocating, that's what they're going to look for. So I think there is there's a

lot of opportunity ahead here. Um, but I just I don't know if it's in the place that everyone thinks it's in, which is these L1s, right? Or at least the place that it's always been for the last five years. I think we're going to start to see that flip. Um, and so that's where we're starting to allocate. And and I think this is a it's it's a bit of a it's still a contrarian take in the in the greater market. I think like I think everybody I think a lot of people get this and there is a lot of talk about it. But here's the thing. There's still a whole bunch of L1s that are going to launch, right? That's not going to slow down. We still have a lot of VC capital directed towards L1's. There's more L1's coming. They get a lot of attention. A

lot. Like that L1 trade thesis that you talked about, Kai, of like everybody wanting to get in on owning the future under layer of of the internet and of crypto. Everybody still wants that and still wants a piece of that. And there's and there's still a chance of who is that going to be? And that is a it's a very easy investment thesis to understand in a simple way. So that's that's going to continue to peck at your brain and be all over crypto Twitter and this airdrop farm this new chain and watch out for bear chains launching and oh my god look at their party at token 2049 it's the biggest party everybody loves this new blockchain mega eth is coming next blah blah blah so that's not going to change and that is going to

continue to distract you and then on the other side you know what else gets the most attention whatever the crypto casino of the day is and that is also going to continue that's also not going to stop so you have and and then you have apps which apps in crypto struggle to get attention because they are DeFi apps right now and DeFi is very difficult to understand for a normal person. So you don't get the same attention on the apps because we don't have what are the apps that did get a lot of attention and did do well the apps that aren't around anymore like the Fentex of the world right where yeah it got a lot of attention but it basically was a memecoin in the end. So you have this real challenge as an investor of there's going to be this it's not going

to stop these these distractions of hey th this is a good investment in in blockchain and this is a good investment in the crypto casino. Those two things they're going to continue and they're going to continue and then figuring out the apps to invest in. It takes more research. It takes more effort. I mean, it's really why everybody should just I I I I don't want to sound like a broken record, but go pro and just read Martin's pro reports because Martin will summarize all this for you because this is all he does is study the apps and understand them and understand DeFi and understand the fundamental thesis. Uh, so, but it's it's tough. Like, this is really I think that there's so many people that won't won't be able to get this just because they'll just read crypto Twitter and all the attention, all the influencers will still talk

about L1's and the crypto casino. Imagine launching an L1 today. God, that's a terrible idea. Like, how late can you be? Like, unless unless you're unless you're like hype and you're like a a hype a hyper hyperated specific that's an app. It's an app. Hyperlid you should think of as an app, not an L1. We're talking when I say L1, what I'm talking is general purpose L1. Yeah, right. Not an app chain. Everyone's gonna launch an L1 that is an app 100%. That's the route we're going to another revenue stream for these apps. But I mean another general purpose L1 that is like you're five years late at this point maybe even more. This makes like all these coming out now. I don't care what their TPS is

or expected TPS. They are junk. I would not touch another L1. I don't care. They're all done. Like for sure that just it's so crowded in that space. It makes no freaking sense especially in a world where apps are now launching their own L1's. like what edge do you think you have? Those are those are the bad entrepreneurs we're talking about. They took way too long to launch. Uh and they've just been, you know, getting all this VC money and enjoying their nice office somewhere and their good life and they'll never launch something that is worth anything in my opinion. Um but speaking of something that is worth the opposite of that so much and actually the biggest outperformer of this entire global trade war, you know what that is?

It's actually not Maker. I I messed up. Do you know what the best performer is? Bcoin. Yeah, Bcoin. I [ __ ] knew it. That was a guess. I knew it. You want to talk about relative strength? Look at this freaking chart during this entire global. This is the only thing that makes no sense here is um for those that can't see, I got the the one month chart up right now and it is it is 2.5x fartcoin has done during this time which is just um absolutely insane. Now, obviously, as I said, you got to move back a little bit further. Okay? If I go the three-month, it's down. It is down like incredibly bad.

Okay? Uh it was at two $2.50 back in January, and today it sits at 55. So, in the grand scheme of things, you got to you got to zoom out. But, and we talk of relative strength during this this craziness, Sparkcoin is actually the uh the number one asset in the entire world. And that is your safe haven. Uh, and I think we should just leave it at that right? It doesn't get any better. That is just the beauty of crypto. And as Jay said, there's always this shiny new toy, this thing that's going to make you put your money somewhere that it shouldn't be. That's exactly what that is. That's what crypto does. Awesome. Well, great episode, guys. That was a lot of fun. Uh, we're going to deploy some uh some capital uh

or we already have this week with Pro. We're going to do a bunch more. So, make sure you go pro to check out how we are playing these markets. Um, it's fun to deploy capital. I'm excited. Thanks, friends, for listening in today. I want to tell you guys quickly about Avalanche Summit that's happening in London in May, May 20th to 22nd. A very unique crypto event, one of a kind experience, more of a retreat style, bit more intimate. You guys are going to want to check it out. If you're developer, builder, founder, uh, investor in crypto, I really do believe that you can get a lot of edge from going to these events because you get to shake hands and meet people. And you get edge when you have you meet people who know things that you don't know that can introduce

you to new lanes. And so, there's something to be said about the inerson connection of shaking hands. Check it out. Grab your ticket today. Hope to see you there. As always, if you liked today's episode, please hit subscribe and make sure you follow us so you don't miss out on the next one. There's also a link in the description to our free 5minute daily newsletter where we simplify crypto for you while making you laugh. And if you're willing to step up your crypto investing game, we're going to also leave a link for Milk Road Pro. You get access to our portfolio where you can see exactly what we are buying.

This is your number one resource to help you invest successfully in crypto. One final note, this show is for educational purposes only and nothing we say is financial advice. Investing in crypto or any asset is risky and you should never invest more than you can afford to lose. Thanks so much for listening in my friends. Have a wicked awesome