How Journalists Stay Objective About Cryptocurrencies and Blockchains - Peter Hody, Finews

Transcript

[Music] hello and welcome to the blockchain and us we're pioneers and thought leaders talked about their journey in blockchain technology crypto assets and a token economy and I'm your host manuel staggers this episode has support from no official sponsor but from my very own the blockchain and us newsletter get an email from me every two weeks with a very short summary of new podcast episodes so you can immediately pick those interviews you'd like to listen to to stay up-to-date just visit w-w-w dot the black chanda's comm and sign up today my guest today is peter hoody peter is the editor in chief of fin news

a leading online news portal reporting about the financial sector in switzerland peter has been in journalism TV print and digital media for the past 20 years he has an MBA a media management and a deep interest in a commercial side of publishing and now to the interview hi Peter and thanks a lot for taking time today thank you for having me Peter we spoke last about two years ago about FinTech mainly for a documentary film I made about FinTech in Switzerland and what kind of changes have you seen since that time in the Swiss financial landscape FinTech was regarded as a disruptive part of the

financial system in Switzerland and in the past few years I think it has more shifted into a collaborative part of the financial system especially the Swiss banks because mainly most fintechs or a large part of suite of the Swiss fintax have become partners of Swiss banking rather than disrupting the Swiss banking that's what everybody said back then they said our biggest goal is to collaborate with the banks so that has happened that has happened partly because they realize that they can't do business on their own because of the large cost of expanding and own business start

from scratch and partly also because banks realized that they cannot innovate by them by themselves it has come to the decision by many banks regarding digitization industrialization of their value chain is it make or buy and most of the banks decided we buy it because the cost of buying is probably lower than developing developing on their own so they bought these fintechs or did they just enter in partnership some of them bought vintage or bought chairs of the fintechs to to tie them to their businesses others just cooperate

there are a few very few banks that open their systems that open their api's open banking is a big word buzzword in the more in the international banking not in Switzerland where banks they're quite reluctant of opening their their api's to fintechs but there are some and they are quite successful by doing so because they open their horizon of businesses a building an ecosystem yeah and that's also another puzzle part now in in in banking and in FinTech especially yes and yet another passport is blockchain technology you said also there was a shift kind of of the FinTech

you know focus on FinTech as the main disrupter now toward cryptocurrencies and lock chain companies exactly another development in the past two or three years its wisdom is the the sharp upcoming of crew of the crypto business in Switzerland we have a lot we have already a large variety of firms Swiss firms mostly international firms no that came to switching to build their crypto business be it a crypto storage crypto asset management to funds crypto consulting or companies that just want to do that coz ur their initial coin offerings

Switzerland also branded itself as crypto nation I think I mean that of course the the the upcoming of the crypto business it's written is also carried by a pretty smart marketing in zoo we have told him earlier the the the president of the city city of zoo I think is the mayor the mayor sorry the mayor of this the city of the who branded zoo as the new Krypto Valley and Duke has made quite a few transformations in in the past decades being a hub for for commodity firms being an attraction for lope with with

their low taxes and now it has become an attraction for crypto companies because low taxes is one thing because of marketing I mean if you have like three or four firms that believe in a place then they attract the others I think that that has been an effect and of course the Swiss quite liberal regulation concerning cryptos and crypto assets you just mentioned the marketing part of Switzerland promoting itself as a haven right for crypto startups and blockchain companies how do you see

these companies or even the regulator's and and the politicians and the individual you know maybe Canton's how do you see them promote themselves in that field well you know the whole crypto nation thing has to be seen in a larger context in my in my opinion you have the Swiss banking which especially in the international views but also in in in Switzerland is it viewed it's it's on a constant decline the importance of Swiss banking in relation to the whole Swiss economy has has been on a decline the workforce has diminished and in

general it isn't as much fun to work in Swiss banking as it used to be 10 or 15 years ago so when are there layoffs or yes there there have been there have been there are there are constantly layoffs because they Amy you I mean you have in banking you have the margin pressure you have rising costs by a regulation and so on I mean that's that's well known so that is a topic in politics right and Swiss is in fear of losing its stance as an international financial hub so crypto marketers in general right business entrepreneurs PR

companies bankers that switch sides they're quite smart in in tapping into this in political insecurity and I think if a PR company or Association like crypto value Association or or other lobbyists if they play it smart and go to politicians be it in a city in a Cantone or on a federal base and lay out their case I think I mean it catches quite a bit of interest what is the case that they lay out well I mean it they lay out that Creek crypto currencies

digital currencies and blockchain economy is going to be the next big thing in a on a global scale and that Switzerland has a big chance in being at the forefront of this development and so far they have proven right yes and and I think they also really believe that right I mean it's not just marketing and promotion I think many of these companies are very convinced that's that's future you know but that's that's another story I think I mean in in the crypto scene in my opinion you have the the strong believers then you have the the ones that are sticking for the business and you have also the bankers that look for new opportunities to do

their own thing I think that has been especially in the past year a large driver in the in the Swiss script have seen that you have seen a lot of disappointed bankers give up their their well-paid jobs but obviously frustrating jobs in institutions that are constantly under pressure and moving into crypto business which is obviously evolving and is not tightly regulated and offers huge changes of making quick money that's the promise right that that draws them into that business maybe many people of course the money money always draws people into business but it's also the

prospects of of doing of being part of a large development that could you know it could I'm not sure it could revolutionize the whole financial system and that's what the believers are working at I mean you you're reporting a lot about the whole sector that includes everything right I mean banks fintechs but also now the crypto space the blockchain space where just as a summary who do you think are the main players there well I don't know if you're acquainted with the term the old boys network the old boys network in Swiss Finance was a network of people that have been running institutions that were

politically connected and also in your army connected and you know they have they ran quite a bit of the Swiss economy and with the with the upcoming of FinTech and more so of the crypto and blockchain business in Zurich you start to see evolve also some kind of a network of people and persons that are connected to each other that are in projects that are in organizations that pursue projects and I mean you could see that when in January when there was this crypto finance conference was organized

and sent more it's with rich was a huge success I mean great marketing huge success great timing and the people behind it you know I mean like mark Banneker Tobias has moods just to name those two or bankers like xrz and those are people that are or David Daniel Guttenberg one of the early Facebook investors and those people are coming from banking and finance and have have been early in pursuing innovative

businesses Banneker has been largely in FinTech Schmidt has gone into sustainable investment and if you look at their network and where what what they are doing is they influenced a lot they that's my believe I mean if you look at mark where an excuse me if I if I said million I mean he is he's in the task force in the federal task force blockchain task force and burn he is acquainted with all the crypto associations in Duke he sits in the boards of one of the law of some of the larger and more promising crypto currency projects in Switzerland he is

one of the organizers of the crypto finance conference so there are those are the people I mean then you have Oliver Guzman of course which plays a huge role in promoting crypto valley in promoting blockchain economy as a the president of the crypto Valley Association but also is a very active investor and financier in this business and in some way they're all connected to each other so there is a I would say there's a handful maybe a dozen or two dozen of people that are really well connected and I wouldn't say they run things but they are ubiquitous they're everywhere

there's a new voice there's a new voice network yes yes and it's that bad no no it's not bad it's just it depends you know I mean it depends on how you look at things are they the believers you know they just I mean are they believers like I don't care if I get rich or not and I just want Bitcoin to be the new dollar in the world currency system or are they just do they see business opportunities in it which isn't you know isn't wrong at all or are they just in

for the quick buck you know and I leave that open I don't know do you think that's kind of a feature of Switzerland almost that you first had this old boys network of you know people kind of celebrating some kind of you know cronyism almost helping each other out patting each other others back and now you know something similar is emerging with this whole crypto nation play do you think that's a Swiss feature or have you seen that elsewhere I think that's it's it's not a Swiss feature and Switzerland helps of course because it's it's a small country it's a small place in Zurich in banking everybody knows

then everybody I mean it's just it's it's a real small world so it might be easier to to build those connections and the network but it's normal I mean it's it's not a special Swiss feature I would think it's normal but it's interesting that you have a technology that's promises decentralization you have this concentration of people who influence the perception it may be a case that is an interest interesting thought and it is contradictory but I wouldn't know how you could through it decentralized communication system promote the idea of blockchain with Finn knows right you as I mean how do you filter some of this

promotion right and and how do you weed out what is the true story what is the true motivation how do you vet those stories that actually end up then on your platform actually that that is a very difficult questions that we deal with almost on a daily basis we have seen a large inflow of marketing and PR regarding crypto and a SEOs and of course every company that is starting a crypto business every company that plans an IC o---- of course sells it as the world's best next idea and it is very

hard to to find out what is behind it is there some serious business case behind behind it or not or the other way you could could look at it as from a journalistic point of view is it a scam you know and if it is it's a huge scam it could also be a good story so that that is very hard to define it it costs also quite a bit of resources to always research who is behind it what do they do is it serious is it regulated and so on and we decide on being very selective on what we do in this in this part of Swiss Finance what you have to I mean it's a

reputable news platform of course we have to I mean that that is expected power by us I think we do it if if you lay here from the crypto scene we might not do it too too often they would expect more but I think they expect more coverage yes of course I mean we get almost daily calls daily emails with offers you could you could be our and partner in in launching this business you can be our media partner or whatever and of course we look we look at these things but

mostly we decline mostly decline what is their offer to you I mean how do they what kind of value do they promise that they bring to you well the next big thing the to them it's always a super-large story it's you know a revolution in some kind of way and it's very attractive to participate in the ICO because of the token that has some special features and the value is gonna rise blah blah blah it's always kind of the same and I mean if you look at the numbers I mean they're well-known most of most of the i ce o--'s are failures

right so if you read about every ICO or about every crypto business that is available in Switzerland you have a lot of 40 stories and we try to avoid them when you say they're failures you mean they don't raise any funds and our token sale no most of them do and but the tokens the value of tokens might even rise for a for a moment for briefly should brief short of time maybe weeks or months but then they land at point zero and that's in my visuals i plastic pump and dump maybe maybe yes I I always say one

should compare one should try to compare stories failed as SEOs with stories of failed startups in general and I'm not sure about the numbers I mean I'm not sure how many startups do succeed and can develop the from a start-up into a well developed company or in a small growing company and how many how many fail right and I think I'm most I'm quite positive that most of the startups also fail I'm not sure about the numbers so it is it is normal and it is quite common that an ICO might become a failure because the

company behind it has to prove that its business model works and that is a different story so they may they may raise some funds in their token sale but the business model still has no legs exactly exactly and I mean that's to me if I would be a buyer of tokens I wouldn't I'd be very critical about it you know I mean the big difference from an IPO to niceö is a company with a net IPO has most of the time has a real reliable business model and has proved as a proven track record in making revenues or even profit for for existing shareholders while companies that promote themselves through an IC o----

don't they have a white paper well that's kind of the ICO space I think it's kind of extreme in that regard right I mean you have a lot of froth and a lot of you know attempted fraud maybe even one could say but there's also other businesses right who truly believe that what they're working on with blockchain technology you know with distributed Ledger's decentralization is the future of many things you know beyond finance even so there's I think there's like several tiers right of of hype so to speak exactly I mean if you look at larger projects you know as an example Tasos which has made quite a few

headlines in 2017 also through their ICO which was huge I think 230 million raised by you know some people very smart people that have a proven track record of being great engineers or programmers or and but it hasn't been clear for quite a few months if it's going to work you know if the Tasos blockchain is gonna be built now it looks like it's going to be built so there's all there have to be some some people behind it that represent something you know past has a successful whatever I think there's a lot of people

about their track record I think so yes yes and is that also what you're analyzing when you're decides what to write about most definitely yes yes I always go and check the names how do you go about checking into that input into the names and all that well it's quite easy today nowadays I mean you if you if you google names and if you go into the relevant data banks you find quite a bit of information about the person like LinkedIn and LinkedIn is also always a start the the central register for companies for Swiss companies is one as an example and of course you you start asking around as well let that be also a source of

information okay if let's say somebody has a company not not a nice field that they just want to promote for a quick token sale but somebody truly believes they're working on something big that you know it's going to change a lot of the things we're currently doing you know in the old school centralized way how should they in your view go about making that their story known good question I mean what always helps you know is if the business is in some kind of relevance be it socially financially economically whatever you know and has it a disruptive character is it

a true innovation or is it just you know just something that produces a token while the business could work without it without blockchain you know I mean you can you can see many companies that add the blockchain out to the business to say okay we have your blockchain base now it's totally unnecessary but if the blockchain is really the base of other business of a new business of an new innovative idea it is up to the journalist the journalist to recognize that see some potential behind it and also see the potential story behind it so I talked about the story it is about

the relevance it is about the relevance is it relevant for us you know I mean as an example there has been this crypto Swiss crypto based company that used the blockchain to build a real real estate fund and real stadiums with in Switzerland is is a huge business for banks and the idea is quite innovative the people behind behind it or are viable and that would have been a story that really would have looked at and we did comes the plus factor they hired a well-known PR company that pitched the

idea to us and I'm very open to say that PR firms play a large role in pitching stories in pitching interview partners to media outlets because they work as a filter of course because we wouldn't be able to filter all those possible stories so the the PR firms they work as a filter and of course I mean if there's money behind it they have more arguments to put their own resources in into pitching a story I don't want to say that they offer money if we do the story that doesn't happen

and if it does happen we say you cannot first money you can you can buy advertorial space on our website which which also happens not yet not so much from crypto companies but FinTech companies do it quite regularly now on Phineas banks as well of course yeah I mean that's our business model that's how we make our money and advertising editorials stuff like that how do you I mean how do you set up a firewall between that line of business and you know the independent journalist to always remind yourself daily and on an hourly basis to your journalistic

conscience you know I mean it is you can it is the hard part of being a journalist and being an entrepreneur is to divide these two markets the reader market and the advertising market but you have to play both and of course there are links they are linked together and you always have to be conscious and am I still independent if I accept this money from this bank and am I going to write still objectively about this bank in the future but I think we've done that quite good so but let's say a big Swiss bank comes to you right and says

hey we now have required a big part of this FinTech company and we kind of want to rebrand ourselves now as new and hip and and you know on track with the future so can you help us do this or I hope happy to pay for for some ad space but it would help if you also you know kind of wrote favorably about us I mean has that happened no okay no I mean so they understand that they use their advertisers they cannot influence what you write about I think it's it's different the advertising part of the bank's they know exactly how it works you know they say okay we you know we invite phineas to our

very wedding you know we have great some some great news and we invite Phineas to and we place our content on them our great content we pay them for it but they know that if something goes wrong or if their hiccups and phineas also comes to the divorce and will write about it so that that part is dealt with quite professionally the other thing is that we see from the communication side of the banks that do the strategic and the media media communication that they try very strongly to influence on what we write and how we write it in your

journalistic work but it's just normal press releases that they don't pay anything no no it's phone calls it's rats rats oh yes yes how so well I mean you know they threat with repercussions if you're right about certain things that is wrong yes if I mean as a journalist if you if you have the facts wrong you have to correct them right but if your interpretation is wrong that's just a giant journalist view I mean there's no no such thing as pure objectivism in journalism it's also it's all there's always like this

subjective view of the author of the story there's always an idea behind a story how to do it how can I get a new angle to we're also already well-known subject and and so on and so on and online is a quick business online also works with you know you have to try to get the attention of the reader so you might be sometimes you might be a little bit aggressive in in selling your story you know by using a headline which sometimes you know the bank or the financial institution that

you read about might not appreciate and that's where the that's where they come with threats and stuff like that but the headline there you got the story wrong if that hurts our business and if you don't change it you're gonna call the lawyers and it's and so on and then what a - well I checked the facts again you know if the facts are right I don't see any any reason to change to change the story if facts are wrong I change it which can be easily done in the Internet right and then you correct it like it would be a

professional way to deal with it exactly exactly we always we always see um see our the subjects we write about the banks financial institutions companies that are in finance we always see them as partners not as enemies so if and we always try to get the facts right we also always try to be fair but since they since we are financed through them through advertising money that comes from the banks from the financial financial institutions their expectations might be sometimes a little bit different there from what we think is good journalism

let's take a quick break for a message from our sponsors this episode has support from no official sponsor but from my very own the blockchain and us newsletter get an email from me every two weeks with a very short summary of new podcast episodes so you can immediately pick those interviews you'd like to listen to to stay up-to-date just visit www.hsn.com and sign up today have there been advertisers who said you know this is just not on my line anymore that's not what I want to communicate about I mean for example let's say you wrote about you know disruption through blockchain technology of banking mmm-hmm

as it happened there that may be a traditional financial institutions that you know we don't want to be on a platform that writes about that no no good no so far not know it wasn't reflect well no innovation is is a huge topic in you know in the boards of every financial institution now so if we write about blockchain based finance and innovation in that kind of innovation and developments in in those parts it should be of interest of the banks and not and not of you know yeah - right I mean they would be denying that there's

something happening there they would also show they're not part of it so they want to attach themselves to the progress correct it's there I mean comparing the way you run your your your business your platform what what do you see when you compare how you do it with maybe the the crypto press you know those crypto platforms that write exclusively about icos cryptocurrencies where the whole sector is going all the great things that happen do you see any differences there well yes I mean the crypto the crypto platforms that the journalists decrypt of platforms I mean they have a lot

depth then we have they they have they have a larger overview of what's going on and seen like I said we try to be very selective in what we do about it we always try to get the relevance out of it for our readers which are still mainly in finance and in banks and I mean I would say that's the main difference without what I see you know on on sites like corn Telegraph or whatever I mean they're so many I can't recall all the names is it's not that that they are super uncritical promoters of of their case I would say it's rather the

opposite they're quite critical and they read a lot about manipulation about flaws about failures of icos you can see a lot of that I think on those platforms I think my observation is more that excuse me if I use the word mainstream media that they jump on the subject a lot more by just writing about price developments you know the price of Bitcoin has gone up the price of Bitcoin has crashed you know you can produce stories on and on and on and on like that or what what is also very popular is banker XY asset Bitcoin is going to

crash and this guy has that Bitcoin is going to revolutionize the currency system you could go on and on and on like that and produce stories on a daily base just you know by doing name name dropping and I think I see that a lot of a lot of that in in mainstream media and I don't think that really is an added value to the reader by understanding what's going on in the blockchain and the crypto currency development is that also a result of influence on them or is it just a misunderstanding of what what really matters I mean it's in my belief it's pressure to you know to

generate clicks on a great yeah it's quick baiting I would say you know I mean if you if you understand the mechanics behind a online news site 50% you know on an average face about 50% of the traffic of the readers they come to your apps website through Google through a keyword search so if you put the right keywords into a headline you have guaranteed more traffic but that's probably very short you thinking in my opinion because you have you always have to see the value and a story you know I mean and readers aren't stupid they

click on the story they click on a story you think it's interesting and it's more of the same the next time they might think twice to click on the story yet it still influences the perception of what people have absolutely absolutely I mean you have seen that in in the rational experience of the price development in Bitcoin last year and where you have this FOMO effect in it I think that largely it was driven by that you know the fear of missing out many private investors who had gone through many crisises in the past year and a half probably quite lost quite a bit of money

you saw a chance in making a quick buck on jumping onto Bitcoin and the media thankfully jumped on that story you know saying a Bitcoin is on the rise Wow but those guys bite or stupid Wow you know I mean zero zero value zero values are left great headline bitcoin is going to hundred thousand dollars great headline not much behind it in my opinion Oh interesting it's interesting that you pinpoint more traditional yeah you know for for for this kind of behavior even though they always hold up the flag and say we were the real professionals and all these new

platforms that are at sponsored you know that you should believe what they write they're all influenced by sponsors that discussion would lead somewhere else I think I mean I'm not criticizing mainstream media I think I mean what I see is that mainstream media is is under immense pressure cause pressure I mean the disruption the disruption is huge what what publishing in publishing houses the media houses I mean that's that's a well-known story and and online journalism hasn't proven as being profitable yet and especially in on

digital platforms of the mainstream media I mean they they just operate with a - - with high costs you know I mean they aren't profitable so they they always try to generate clicks traffic and and I think that leads to strategies that can be related to click baiting just think so that not that would make them maybe easy prey even for some people wanted to influence so of course I mean if you look if you look at the USA the Trump election the Trump presidency has has led to a to quite a good business development in the online

media space because everything that's Trump related promises to be a good story and is being read and then I mean if you if you look through the stories what what is relevant you know about about this most more most of it isn't most of it is just social media chatter pic press pickups and stuff like that how much of the story that the mainstream media reports about blockchain technology and about you know this whole narrative of this is changing everything and decentralization is coming how much of that story that people read about in the mainstream media do you think is manipulated by somebody else I don't

think much so it's really mainly the motivation is the clickbait yes no I wouldn't say that I wouldn't say that it's all click baiting I mean if you if I mean there are very serious journalists that that have probably better knowledge about the whole blockchain technology sitting in newsrooms much larger than this one but I don't think they're being influenced now by you know by by whatever PR come oh there might be PR companies behind it but but I think there's everywhere there are serious attempts of explaining blockchain technology the potential

behind it the players behind it and so on it's just that those news that are just in it for the headline they kind of overshadow that the real I wasn't so deep yes yes okay what's your personal view on you know the potential of blockchain technology I mean it is very interesting I'm not a I'm not a an engineer and I'm not an IT programmer so I probably understand the concept of it but I wouldn't be able to explain how to build a blockchain but the concept behind it as far as I understand it it is interesting it mainly leads to efficiency gains right and I think

that's the main reason why the large banks are pursuing blockchain projects so they can lower the cost base in transactional businesses right and but I also think that the blockchain might be just for that for some part of transactional businesses it's not not all of them I think one part that is in my opinion largely exaggerated is the blockchain can replace mutual trust between two business partners right I think Trust is as always a human component it always it it's based on

human interaction and the blockchain what what block G knows it wants to eliminate this human interaction by creating smart contracts that write down for eternity what - business partner partners have decided on and I don't think that's going to work in reality in all parts of our economy or even in our social life I really don't think so as dead as your view changed over time or has that always been you yes it has changed as as more as I know about the developments in blockchain I've also

seen quite a few blockchain projects especially in Swiss banks fail which is okay it's not it's not a disaster and it's a normal thing that you try an innovation and it doesn't work so you try the next one don't give up banks on it because there is of course there is large potential in it because I mean one problem huge problem banks are carrying are their transactional costs and if you can eliminate transaction costs that's a big thing I mean that's the whole fourth Industrial Revolution is about that to reduce to index transactional costs in

producing goods or you know or in trade or whatever and so there is large potential about it in it of course also maybe one thing I see critically but is being sold as a huge advantage is the central decentralized system and the the large advantage of the decentralized system is of course that you can you cannot manipulate it shouldn't be able to manipulated once it has been written it is written you can change it from one computer because you know or from one platform because there are other platforms that will notice and

correct the the trial but then again from an efficiency point of view it's it's super inefficient you know if you have information based on a eternal number of platforms then not just one and if a transaction has to be fulfilled on a super-large basis of platforms except for one I mean I don't see an efficient I don't see the efficiency of our mining inefficiency of course I mean that's that's one big thing about Bitcoin is the whole manual in inefficiency and the huge amount of

energy that it consumes and I think that is one of the big flaws in the holes in the whole crypto and blockchain system that's it's it's it's inefficient in my point of view or in part inefficient how did you how did you reach that conclusion I mean I personally write I'm not a program write a very little grasp of you know how some of these very advanced technologies you know really work but I wonder I mean how do you how do you go about understanding the technology but you try to read you know I mean you read you read articles about it and if you find an article interesting or the person that stands

behind something you you go into deep research start reading books even and and it's it's just I mean it's the task of a journalism to get as much of a broad view about a topic that you're right about as possible and of course blockchain is a very large topic and you can go really deep and I mean you have to ask yourself is this going to help my reader if I let all my knowledge out on him technical stuff that you can read on Wikipedia I don't think that's my task I'm trying to give

directions and opinions if somebody wants to know more about blockchain technology right I mean they don't have your I mean you're trained in doing research right and in then objectively reporting about it so but how if somebody just wants to inform themselves about what this technology can do or what maybe projects are that have promised how would you recommend they go about that I mean if you just want a short explanation you can always go do it right I mean there yeah but then you have the problem that you basically have all this clickbait coming up yeah as a user I don't care well but as a user that it will not be a good research strategy right because you'll first see

the old clickbait that was generated just to you know push one side of the story so but it will never get your deep right into a circle that's true but you have to start somewhere yeah I mean you have to have a starting point just to to get a general idea I think the media is a pretty good source of information but I think if you want to go deeper you should actually start reading books you know there's there's in this is super large variety of new books in the market that explain the blockchain and in a quite in a way that is understandable for then non technique Peter you explained before the way you

go about both funding your news platform but also then maintaining independence from the advertiser so maybe the opinion that they'd like to see spread in the news do you sometimes get criticism for for this for your commercial business model yes we do we do actually do I'm not criticism but what one question that we are regularly asked by peers by other journalists is are you truly independent and from our company structure is completely independent but the next part of the story is how how do we make our money

how do we pay our rent for the offices and how do we pay our salaries it's of course the money to do that comes from the people that we write about and that does create a conflict of interests not so much for us but for the reader I mean if the reader sees you know you open the the news website and you see the whole website is framed by a huge advertising by pretty well-known bank and we there might by chance also be an article about

that bank on our website on that platform which you know reports about good results or whatever or reports about personal changes and stuff like that one the reader might ask you separately it's kind of odd right and it might look odd but actually it doesn't have it doesn't have much to do with with each other what we do is I mean if we have if we had have large campaigns like a branding campaign that uses a lot of advertising space we try not to report on that bank or on that financial institution on that particular day because that would raise eyebrows it

like I said it raises questions mostly for peers and it raises demands also from maybe from smaller players on the of among the financial institutions that expect us that we write about them just like that because they are now here and they point their point of view they have a super business and they expect us to read about them always in a positive way and it's not that easy it doesn't that doesn't happen it it

might also like I pointed out before it might also it's always be a disappointment before for a bank if they get you know if they get bad press through fin use while they have never ties in but you the marketing budget and that is I don't know has a certain amount of thousands of Swiss francs you know and that might raise disappointment it might there might be phone calls but then again if you as journalist you always have to be able to say was a fair or was there not is my reporting fair or not and if it's fair if the facts are right there is no argument you know we

have to do it and we do it I never I can I can give you many examples of reports from venues that have not been in favor of a bank which is quite important as a business part for us so that's yeah you have to have to conscious conscious as an entrepreneur and as a journalist if you are if you're on a platform like ours how did you originally get into journalism through writing I've know I must sit through reading you know first

was reading then was writing and then was then came the the will to change the world right in my my juvenile years and also the belief of the importance of the media as the fourth column in a democratic state and I still believe that it's super more relevant than ever well you could always say that in every period of time but now again and I was you know there was is a portion of idealism behind it and you know some of

course some skills I have I guess you know I'm I could say yeah I'm good at journalism I'm better at journalism than being a gardener or a cook or a banker so yeah that's how it happened and started I started in my I don't know late teens writing for outlets and then went on as students to make to earn some money on the side and got my first job in a in a small TV station as a VJ as a video journalist which so far has been my most interesting job

I think but also the toughest and then you know I went on from there mm-hm it's it's cool I mean those the idealism part I like and and it's interesting that is kind of I mean a lot of people in this whole blockchain and crypto field also have a lot of idealism definitely at the very beginning maybe even more than today you know were so many so much money is involved but has that ideology of of the whole crypto and blockchain narrative has that also somehow spoken to you or resonated with you yes of course one one of the most difficult thing

being a journalist is leave your personal opinions leave your personal passions or whatever aside when you write about something which is impossible I mean you compromise on you compromise always I mean you're you write about the subject that you like or you don't like the article might lead to that you do afterwards you like the subject because it deeper into it you find it interesting you change your opinion about it but most of the articles are opinionated by any journalist maybe you know the agency journalists Reuters or Associated Press the least but in the

newspapers it's something that readers expect from you you know that you have an opinion about about a subject that you write about so that has has been an influence of course because I mean if you look at the past ten years what has happened in the financial system with you know the financial crisis with the central banks doing their thing doing their experiment with flooding the markets with liquidity and nobody knows what's going to happen no it's an experiment that has never been done that could have potential fatal consequences for for

economy and society so far they have done a great job but you never know but they're acting and the acting of government carrying huge depth with and no idea how to get rid of them of the depth and in combination with monetary policy has of course risen questions about you know what if what what what is going to be the consequence how is this gonna end and can it be turned around you know and I think the cryptocurrency the blockchain idea the cryptocurrency Bitcoin to start with the main idea is to create a system that is not under

under control of the state of a government or a central bank which is a very interesting idea and there of course there's ideologic a ideology behind it economic theory libertarianism and so on which are all ideas you know as a journalist you you come across them and some of them have something for them some of them not but in that context of course it has come into my conscious blockchain and that the whole idea

behind it personally I think always think when when there's an ideology behind it or a religion there there are dangers attached you know is it really is it really going to help Society or is it just gonna be for the use of special kind of people that that support those ideas and beliefs I don't know we don't know all right what would you like to see change in the way the communication is taking place in this whole crypto and

blockchain co-sister I don't know I'm not really in a I don't think I'm in a position to you know to give advice I think I understand that there is a lot of hype that there is a lot of competition growing and there are a lot of paths that have an open end to a seemingly bright future right financial future or whatever and I understand that you have to promote that and that as a company as an individual that has an idea that puts money into it that puts emphasis and passion into it that you communicate your idea as a great thing I I think what what I would like

to see a little bit more is maybe a self-regulating mechanism in the whole scene by you know by select by is a naming and shaming members of that community that are only in it for the money you know because those people don't really help the movement I think the movement the development I would if I could give an advice and I would it would be in that direction but I I think I mean there there are associations and there are many bright and and reliable people that are already on that that try

to take a little bit the steam out of it and put it on a more realistic base and what about the journalism you know the reporting about blockchain technology and crypto it's there anything that you would like to see you know evolve oh I mean what always helps is more understanding it's more understanding and that will happen as blockchain evolves as part of an economic system that is going to happen also you know understanding about cryptocurrencies the financial system itself and and and the

effect of cryptocurrencies on a financial system that always helps if if there is more understanding newsrooms and in newspapers that write about it maybe a little bit less focus on Bitcoin and you know the price development I think that's I mean it's a boring subject in my opinion of course it's not boring because because there's money behind it and that's mostly that's it's those are the easiest stories stories to make but it's not it's not a sustainable way of reporting news I

think Peter that was really interesting and very insightful so thanks a lot for giving such a deep overview of what you are observing and also some of the trends and and your own opinion I really appreciate that and thanks a lot for taking time today thank you was interesting for me too thanks so much for joining us today more info on our guest and our sponsors isn't the show notes of this episode and on the podcast website the blockchain and ask.com to help people find this podcast it's important that you download subscribe and give it a top rating and review on iTunes or on the podcast platform of your choice I'm Manuel daggers and I thank you very much for listening

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